His aim is not personal glory; it's to remake the Labour party in his image. This is what he was put on Earth for, but like changing the course of an ocean liner, you can't swing the wheel and start doing wheelies. It has to be slowly, slowly to boil the frogs and Red Tories within.
When the wind is against, you need to tack, but the destination remains the same.
Keeping Andy Burnham at the top table is invaluable to this strategy.
Keeping Andy Burnham is a good strategy if keeping people who are prepared to bend to every wind is considered important.
The man will never hold high office in Britain given his flip flopping.
If Khan can be painted in the same light, Goldsmith will win London.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or two
The membership won't vote for him.
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
Alternatively, these former HM's could get together and hammer out a proposal that would stand a chance of being accepted by the whole house. This could be done on the QT and not revealed until everyone was happy with it.
Labour won't agree to that because Labour needs the NHS to be divisive.
Actually, I don't think it'd be a good idea. I dislike commissions of experts devising and imposing policies as that entirely cuts across the democratic system. For all that there are problems with the NHS being in the political realm, there is accountability that way. Whether it works very effectively is a different question but at least a health minister can't say 'not my fault; nothing to see; move along'. With the NHS in particular, it's hard enough as it is preventing producer capture. An autonomous commission running it would end up there in no time at all.
6 meetings in a day enough to wipe you out? Pah! Next week I have 30 in 3.5 days...
Careful, or I'll be rude about investment bankers
By the looks of it Charles is more of a corporate speed dater than a banker.
Worst euphemism ever.
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?
6 meetings in a day enough to wipe you out? Pah! Next week I have 30 in 3.5 days...
Careful, or I'll be rude about investment bankers
By the looks of it Charles is more of a corporate speed dater than a banker.
Worst euphemism ever.
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?
On this pitch you seem to have maybe a dozen overs with the new ball and then batsmen have to get themselves out. We saw a similar clatter in the SA innings yesterday with the 3rd new ball before another century partnership.
That is 10 overs down. I think it is a little early to panic.
I don't doubt you know more about the party than me, but it looks like Corbyn has more Shadow Cabinet control and there's no prospect of him being ousted. Where's the upside for the sane wing of Labour?
I'm getting really fed up of having to keep demonstrating to lefties that capitalism has helped their people more than any socialist policies ever had.
They ought to pack up their little red books and head home!
6 meetings in a day enough to wipe you out? Pah! Next week I have 30 in 3.5 days...
Careful, or I'll be rude about investment bankers
By the looks of it Charles is more of a corporate speed dater than a banker.
Worst euphemism ever.
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?
Mr. Song, except that Cameron's policy and Conservative policy are the same thing, unlike Trident in Labour. Not to mention the fact the Conservatives aren't led by an idiot who thinks we should negotiate with ISIS/Daesh, or who is unhappy at the prospect of killing suicide bombers before they can commit terrorist atrocities.
If Labour tries to defend itself by comparing Corbyn with Cameron, the Conservative PR team will fear redundancy.
Mr. Mortimer, submissive obedience and an IngSoc-like ability to perform a volte-face at a moment's notice appears to Burnham's modus operandi. I'm sure he's a nice chap on a personal level, but I wouldn't trust him to be junior under-secretary for Fish.
6 meetings in a day enough to wipe you out? Pah! Next week I have 30 in 3.5 days...
Careful, or I'll be rude about investment bankers
By the looks of it Charles is more of a corporate speed dater than a banker.
Worst euphemism ever.
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
So it's more hello sailor than screaming para from here on in ?
Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or two
The membership won't vote for him.
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
Danny Finkelstein in the Times: 'Labour rejected David Miliband, lost under Ed Miliband and now they've chosen Ralph Miliband. Comrade Corbyn doesn't believe in Parliament. Labour's leader follows the views of Ralph Miliband, who argued that socialism relies more on grassroots than on MPs'
BBCLauraK Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments
2 shadows with backbone? Seems wildly high to me.
What on earth does Charlie Falconer think he is doing associating himself with this mess? Since Corbyn was too scared to sack him he really should walk.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
I don't doubt you know more about the party than me, but it looks like Corbyn has more Shadow Cabinet control and there's no prospect of him being ousted. Where's the upside for the sane wing of Labour?
The nice, consensual, broad church, let's discuss Corbyn narrative is being shattered. His inability to lead is being horribly exposed. As is his hard left agenda. As I say, this is a long game that is all about the membership, most of which does still want a Labour party that can win elections. Nothing Corbyn has done since the reshuffle story broke has indicated he has any clue or real interest in Labour gaining power.
Robert Harris on the reshuffle 'the very definition of futility: a reshuffle of people doing imaginary jobs in a future government that will never exist. '
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or two
The membership won't vote for him.
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael Howard
We have North Korea testing nuclear weapons and the Tory Party accusing Labour of being a threat to national security. And Labour puts an anti-Trident Islington MP as its Shadow Defence Secretary. Talk about making things harder for yourself.
I think we've reached that point where a decision is going to have to be made by moderates about whether to stay in the cabinet or leave. The reshuffle has made Labour look even weaker on defence and foreign affairs, which is a pretty amazing feat in itself. That statement by McFadden is, and will be, toxic I think.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?
Mr. Manson, be fair. Corbyn also wants negotiations with genocidal, industrial-scale rapists who also crucify children and want to invade every country in the Middle East.
And is unhappy at the thought of shooting dead suicide bombers.
That's not merely difficult. That's harder than a man trapped on a desert island for 17 years being rescued by the Swedish Nymphomaniac Association yacht.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?
Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or two
The membership won't vote for him.
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael Howard
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?
Beautiful dog.
Not yet. The period immediately after the EU referendum is the danger point - especially if May's elections don't go well. Dugher yesterday was laying out the electoral challenges from May which cannot realistically be met.
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?
It's all about the members. Walking out in advance of review will not convince them that Benn & Co have Labour's best interests at heart. Staying put is much more likely to win hearts and minds.
If, as Michael Dugher accurately stated on Monday, being shadow minister for paper clips is so important, good luck to them. They can continue to sit around the shadow cabinet table, convincing themselves what is in their best interests has again fallen into happy alignment with what is in the best interests of their party. And by doing so they are endorsing the reality that in the Labour party, in 2016, saying terrorists should be responsible for their actions is a sackable offence.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Thanks. Do you think it's possible that Corbyn will be ousted against his will?
Beautiful dog.
Not yet. The period immediately after the EU referendum is the danger point - especially if May's elections don't go well. Dugher yesterday was laying out the electoral challenges from May which cannot realistically be met.
I had been thinking that there is no way Corbyn himself wouldn't be on the ballot (either because it was decided he didn't need nominations or simply because he would get the nominations he needed).
I can see, however, that:
Corbyn might not stand again if he has been challenged after an electoral collapse The members might not vote him back in in those circumstances - the atmosphere would be very different from summer 2015
I am doubtful that he will really be seen to have failed in May though. So much depends on managing expectations. (Then again, that doesn't seem to be Milne's forte.)
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
This is yet another reason Benn & Co look pathetic. The Labour defence review is now by 2 unilateralists. Are they ok with that?
It's all about the members. Walking out in advance of review will not convince them that Benn & Co have Labour's best interests at heart. Staying put is much more likely to win hearts and minds.
Indeed Howard replaced IDS having been seen to be loyal
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
Miss Plato, Labour's got a leader who dislikes the anthem and a Defence spokesman who dislikes the flag. Match made in socialist heaven.
Edited extra bit: actually, that's a shade unfair. Not all socialists are as bad as Corbyn.
Edited extra bit 2: Mr. Eagles, that's bloody ridiculous. Benn's busy throwing away all the kudos he earnt for his Commons speech on Syria. Damned fool, or damned coward?
Both.
Benn's lost all credibility, and now looks as if he's merely Corbyn's gimp, happy to sit at his masters feet whilst clinging on to any kudos for being a Shadow Minister.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
It will. But the question begging to be asked in your first sentence is 'how?'. Can the PLP show enough discipline to do a Brown / Howard and only nomination one person? If not, or if Corbyn ends up on the ballot by default, how do they choose to fire what is their only shot so as to ensure that the membership-and-friends don't make the same mistake again? Above all, how do they kick the process off?
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.
What about the 3 quidders ?
Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
Here we go again. Days / weeks of briefing journalists that they are upset and angry and they "likely" to do something....and then we carry on as normal.
One day they will find the one backbone they share between the whole lot of them.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
Exactly. They're very good at mistaking whining to the media, for action.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
Here we go again. Days / weeks of briefing journalists that they are upset and angry and they "likely" to do something....and then we carry on as normal.
One day they will find the one backbone they share between the whole lot of them.
One of them might find a bit of one, and off they'll trot. Alone.
6 meetings in a day enough to wipe you out? Pah! Next week I have 30 in 3.5 days...
Careful, or I'll be rude about investment bankers
By the looks of it Charles is more of a corporate speed dater than a banker.
Worst euphemism ever.
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?
Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
Precisely. The bottom line is that most Labour members are not on the hard left and want a Labour government. They may be stupid, but they're not Trots.
What about the 3 quidders ?
Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.
But the left has even more control over the unions than it does over Labour, because hard-left types within unions are far more interested in trying to take control than average union bods who are just in it to support colleagues or moderate types for whom that political route doesn't offer much attraction.
I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
"Likely to resign" = "I don't really want to resign and don't really have any intention to but I don't agree with Corbyn either so I'll leak how unhappy I am in the vain hope that these hints will cause him to change his course"
You don't leak that you're considering your position if you are in fact considering your position.
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that says
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or two
The membership won't vote for him.
Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.
Yep, most Labour members are not on the hard left. And the more Corbyn reveals of his hard left credentials the less support he'll get. This is a long-term game and one that will not be settled in weeks or months, but the last few days have been good for Labour's chances of long-term survival chances as a major party.
We have to assume the membership is moving to the left though.
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
If there is a challenge the membership of course cannot be consulted otherwise there is no point even launching one, Benn would have to be elected by MPs unopposed like Michael Howard
It is not going to happen, and any attempt to do so would fail at the several hurdles:
1) Corbyn may get 35 nominations (not least because some MPs would oppose a stitch up)
2) The NEC is likely to rule that Corbyn as existing leader does not need nominations.
3) the outcry from the membership and selectorate would be so massive that MPs attemting such a coup would be pretty certain to be deselected.
The MPs need to convince the selectorate that Corbyn is not capable of delivering anything apart from chaos, feuding and defeat. The time to move is after the May elections, then have an open contest rather than a stitch up, so the new leader takes over at the autumn conference. Corbyn needs to be defeated the same way that he was appointed - in a fair fight.
I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
I know you're not Labour, but it is a mistake to see ebb & flow as inevitable. Labour might well just ebb & ebb. Eventually, of course, something will oppose the Conservatives, but it might take a long time.
Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.
My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.
Well if he speaks and votes that way I imagine he thinks that way. If it was settled Labour Party policy not to bomb IS in Syria, why wasn't the vote whipped? Arguably foreign/defence policies are not left to the individual consciences of MPs. Given that it was a free vote, you have to accept the consequences of that.
In any case it was a one-off. Or is it now Labour policy never to bomb anyone, anywhere?
As they are now the political wing of stop the war that would indeed appear to be their policy.
Corbyn might make an exception for the USA or Israel though :-)
I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
Morning all,
Portillo has been saying the same thing (about a 'yes' vote actually being a vote for a whole new level of integration) for some time. This was why he was against a vote (believing the answer would be 'yes').
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
If there are conflicting stories of who has agreed what with whom and what public face Lab puts on the matter it will remind voters of the worst of the Blair/Brown catfight years.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
"Likely to resign" = "I don't really want to resign and don't really have any intention to but I don't agree with Corbyn either so I'll leak how unhappy I am in the vain hope that these hints will cause him to change his course"
You don't leak that you're considering your position if you are in fact considering your position.
Its the classic parent to a child, when the parent says time and time again, if you do that one more time there will be consequences.
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that says
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
TSE I have a question: do you tuck your "I love Dave" tshirt in your y-fronts in the John Major style or do you let it hang loose?
The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
So let me get this right. When sitting on the front bench if he disagrees he then stands goes and sits on the backbench, then stands, says his piece, sits, then stands and returns to the front bench.
M'kay........ A new kinda politics indeed.
Who was that yesterday that was quipping about music chairs.....?
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
If there are conflicting stories of who has agreed what with whom and what public face Lab puts on the matter it will remind voters of the worst of the Blair/Brown catfight years.
When somebody yesterday said basically Benn had agree to wear a gimp mask, but could choose the colour of the zips, they were absolutely bang on.
Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.
Why would we brush an article under the carpet that says
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
TSE I have a question: do you tuck your "I love Dave" tshirt in your y-fronts in the John Major style or do you let it hang loose?
The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.
@SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches
So let me get this right. When sitting on the front bench if he disagrees he then stands goes and sits on the backbench, then stands, says his piece, sits, then stands and returns to the front bench.
M'kay........ A new kinda politics indeed.
Who was that yesterday that was quipping about music chairs.....?
Insert Bennie Hill music....and minus the scantily clad women.
"One shadow minister has told the BBC he is likely to resign this morning in protest at the sacking of Pat McFadden for his views on terrorism I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle." Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
"likely to resign" ....smells like will come to square root of f##k all. You either going to do it or not. Typical PLP.
Comments
The man will never hold high office in Britain given his flip flopping.
If Khan can be painted in the same light, Goldsmith will win London.
Actually, I don't think it'd be a good idea. I dislike commissions of experts devising and imposing policies as that entirely cuts across the democratic system. For all that there are problems with the NHS being in the political realm, there is accountability that way. Whether it works very effectively is a different question but at least a health minister can't say 'not my fault; nothing to see; move along'. With the NHS in particular, it's hard enough as it is preventing producer capture. An autonomous commission running it would end up there in no time at all.
The way he has assimilated into Corbo's cabinet is hilarious.
A l'eau, c'est l'heure.
That is 10 overs down. I think it is a little early to panic.
Doesn't think it will harm the economy.
What a tool.
I don't doubt you know more about the party than me, but it looks like Corbyn has more Shadow Cabinet control and there's no prospect of him being ousted. Where's the upside for the sane wing of Labour?
They ought to pack up their little red books and head home!
Likely a couple of shadow ministers may resign this morning over sacking of McFadden on terror comments
If Labour tries to defend itself by comparing Corbyn with Cameron, the Conservative PR team will fear redundancy.
Mr. Mortimer, submissive obedience and an IngSoc-like ability to perform a volte-face at a moment's notice appears to Burnham's modus operandi. I'm sure he's a nice chap on a personal level, but I wouldn't trust him to be junior under-secretary for Fish.
Robbie Travers @RobbieTravers 9h9 hours ago
Both Labour Ministers sacked, Pat McFadden and Michael Dugher, were members of Labour Friends of Israel.
They may well not choose a Corbynite but I don't see any way they'll vote for Benn. He's going to enter the ranks of Labour demons.
Shadow defence minister Kevan Jones and shadow foreign affairs minister Stephen Doughty may resign today, Labour source tells me.
But, supposing it isn't, who? Shadow ministers suggests not shadow cabinet?
What on earth does Charlie Falconer think he is doing associating himself with this mess? Since Corbyn was too scared to sack him he really should walk.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12082926/Spineless-Labour-moderates-can-appease-Jeremy-Corbyn-but-not-the-voters.html
And either the Telegraph photo editor's joke has passed me by - or its a c*ck up....
Mike concludes the chances of Corbyn surviving look a little bit higher. I think the opposite. Trident is going to be renewed - there is an overwhelming majority for it in the Commons and yet Corbyn is prepared to invest huge amounts of political capital on the issue. This will come at a price.
@paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f
Beautiful dog.
And is unhappy at the thought of shooting dead suicide bombers.
That's not merely difficult. That's harder than a man trapped on a desert island for 17 years being rescued by the Swedish Nymphomaniac Association yacht.
I can see, however, that:
Corbyn might not stand again if he has been challenged after an electoral collapse
The members might not vote him back in in those circumstances - the atmosphere would be very different from summer 2015
I am doubtful that he will really be seen to have failed in May though. So much depends on managing expectations. (Then again, that doesn't seem to be Milne's forte.)
I understand a handful of junior ministers are considering their positions in the wake of the reshuffle."
Source: LauraK BBC live politics feed
Labour bleed all the way to 2020 then Jezza goes and someone equally useless takes over.
By 2030 they share a taxi with the LDs.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/nicola-sturgeon-puts-case-for-independence-at-the-heart-of-snps-election-campaign
Benn's lost all credibility, and now looks as if he's merely Corbyn's gimp, happy to sit at his masters feet whilst clinging on to any kudos for being a Shadow Minister.
EDIT: Anyone got any ideas who are the ones most likely to jump out of the remaining?
They're both as pathetic, and deserve each other.
One day they will find the one backbone they share between the whole lot of them.
Dan Hannan spot on again in this article
If England do manage to lose this it will surely be the most devestating and humiliating defeat in the history of the game.
Nothing will ever top Adelaide 2006.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgee
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html
The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.
You don't leak that you're considering your position if you are in fact considering your position.
Except, maybe, the SNP and possibly the Tories.
I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
1) Corbyn may get 35 nominations (not least because some MPs would oppose a stitch up)
2) The NEC is likely to rule that Corbyn as existing leader does not need nominations.
3) the outcry from the membership and selectorate would be so massive that MPs attemting such a coup would be pretty certain to be deselected.
The MPs need to convince the selectorate that Corbyn is not capable of delivering anything apart from chaos, feuding and defeat. The time to move is after the May elections, then have an open contest rather than a stitch up, so the new leader takes over at the autumn conference. Corbyn needs to be defeated the same way that he was appointed - in a fair fight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan)
Corbyn might make an exception for the USA or Israel though :-)
Unless there's a dramatic change those born under 1st majority LAB government (1945-51) will probably die under the Tories
Portillo has been saying the same thing (about a 'yes' vote actually being a vote for a whole new level of integration) for some time. This was why he was against a vote (believing the answer would be 'yes').
To my mind it's the strongest reason to vote for leave.
The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.
So let me get this right. When sitting on the front bench if he disagrees he then stands goes and sits on the backbench, then stands, says his piece, sits, then stands and returns to the front bench.
M'kay........ A new kinda politics indeed.
Who was that yesterday that was quipping about music chairs.....?