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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whoever started the briefing about a “revenge reshuffle” ha

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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    runnymede said:
    Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.



    Why would we brush an article under the carpet that says

    I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
    Hannan is astute (and perhaps sincere) when he says that, Europe apart, he's happy with his party. It plays into his sunny-side-up BOOism.
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    The Labour Party - The Farce Awakens*, directed by JJ

    *nicked from yesterdays thread.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    TSE..He hasn't been told yet..
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    @SophyRidgeSky: John McDonnell confirms to me that if Hilary Benn disagrees with Jeremy Corbyn on future free vote he'll *physically* speak from backbenches

    @paulwaugh: The real story behind Jeremy Corbyn's marathon reshuffle. Friends of Benn say he has NOT agreed any 'new conditions' https://t.co/S3g32GN87f

    If there are conflicting stories of who has agreed what with whom and what public face Lab puts on the matter it will remind voters of the worst of the Blair/Brown catfight years.
    When somebody yesterday said basically Benn had agree to wear a gimp mask, but could choose the colour of the zips, they were absolutely bang on.
    Well exactly. Either he is playing the long game (didn't @david_herdson say how it is better to be seen as loyal...), or...he has no shame.

    But normal rules have been suspened...to be or be seen to be loyal to a bunch of loons damages Hilary whatever his inside game is. As AA Gill said about people viewing dimwit reality TV shows: sadly there is no irony button to press so people understand how you are viewing it.

    McDonnell this morning was comical. There will be a free vote but if anyone disagrees they will be banished to the backbenches. So a sort of one-time free vote.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    So what's Jez going to ask at PMQs?

    Calling for Pro Iran air strikes on Riyadh.

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    So what's Jez going to ask at PMQs?

    Whatever Bob the BNPer has mailed in this week...
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    TGOHF said:

    So what's Jez going to ask at PMQs?

    Calling for Pro Iran air strikes on Riyadh.

    Well that's going to confuse his fans at Stop The War.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    If we think JJ is crap, SeanT wasn't joking about the "women's code" in Germany...

    The Mayor of Cologne says women should adopt a “code of conduct” to prevent future attacks following trouble on New Year's eve when women in the city centre were subjected to sexual assaults by hundreds of men

    The proposed code of conduct includes staying an arm's length away from strangers, remaining within your own group, and asking bystanders for intervene or to help as a witness.
    Such a code for young women and girls was designed " so that such things do not happen to them," said Ms Reker, who added that it would soon be available online.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12083921/Mayor-of-Cologne-urges-code-of-conduct-for-young-women-to-prevent-future-assaults.html

    She should have just gone the whole hog and said women should wear head to toe covering when out in public.

    I await the "but think about the possible backlash" against migrants....
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    The Guardian channelling PB Tories

    But for all their talk of patient safety the doctors too have sometimes appeared keener on their own interests than they have looked like professionals preoccupied with the wellbeing of their patients

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/05/the-guardian-view-on-the-doctors-strike-make-peace-not-war?CMP=share_btn_tw
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrTCHarris: If, on a free vote, Benn must speak from the back benches, presumably Corbyn must also?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @adrianmcmenamin: What did you do to save the Labour Party daddy?
    I issued a tweet that expressed mild annoyance and then went to the Shadow Cabinet meeting
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    I'm struggling to see any upside to this reshuffle.

    It's pissed off a bunch more MPs, hasn't solved the Benn problem and now Lady Snob. A Defence Sec shadow that accepted funding from a firm that litigated against soldiers?!

    He has Benn on a leash now, so hows exactly that Benn has no cojones but just another whimpering no mark without principles or backbone. Anything to keep his position, weakling.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TedJeory: This is what Emily Thornberry had to say to @PickardJE about Corbyn's leadership credentials in July. Prescient. https://t.co/PFr3fnNIjv
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Wow

    @jreynoldsMP: I have this morning resigned from the Labour frontbench - https://t.co/Sdvrho3HED
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Let the reshuffle continue! Long live McMao and Corbyn
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    Scott_P said:

    Wow

    @jreynoldsMP: I have this morning resigned from the Labour frontbench - https://t.co/Sdvrho3HED

    Who?
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    kle4 said:

    Keeping Benn is odd. It just makes me think of how labour pretended for years Blair and brown still got along, fooling no one.

    A gross exaggeration, the BBC political editor Nick Robinson managed to be fooled for years.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Who?

    Apparently a Labour MP with a conscience. Not surprising you have never heard of him
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Wow

    @jreynoldsMP: I have this morning resigned from the Labour frontbench - https://t.co/Sdvrho3HED'

    Who?
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    Scott_P said:

    Who?

    Apparently a Labour MP with a conscience. Not surprising you have never heard of him
    Arrrhhh he is former James Purnell SAD, that makes some sense now...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: Oh dear - Hilary Benn says 'I m going to carry on doing my job exactly as before' 'I haven't been muzzled'
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    malcolmg said:

    I'm struggling to see any upside to this reshuffle.

    It's pissed off a bunch more MPs, hasn't solved the Benn problem and now Lady Snob. A Defence Sec shadow that accepted funding from a firm that litigated against soldiers?!

    He has Benn on a leash now, so hows exactly that Benn has no cojones but just another whimpering no mark without principles or backbone. Anything to keep his position, weakling.
    Is Benn really on a leash? He's already said (via briefings) that he is still willing to take a different position from Corbyn. Plus Corbyn has shown himself too weak (no cojones) to sack Benn.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Arrrhhh he is former James Purnell SAD, that makes some sense now...

    I thought yesterday nobody would resign because "nobody wanted to be james Purnell". He is obviously the exception...
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited January 2016

    kle4 said:

    Keeping Benn is odd. It just makes me think of how labour pretended for years Blair and brown still got along, fooling no one.

    A gross exaggeration, the BBC political editor Nick Robinson managed to be fooled for years.
    Au contraire, he wasn't fooled, he just didn't report it. This was his pretty shameful mea culpa - "I did not report then but now can..."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2010/09/blair_and_brown.html
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    Wow

    @jreynoldsMP: I have this morning resigned from the Labour frontbench - https://t.co/Sdvrho3HED

    If they can have one every hour for the rest of the day it might be a decent effort.
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    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: Oh dear - Hilary Benn says 'I m going to carry on doing my job exactly as before' 'I haven't been muzzled'

    Surprised Laura could make out what he said...mhmhmhmhmhmm....mmhmhmhmmh...what?...let me unzip that for you....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @OliverCooper: Now that Shadow Ministers are resigning in protest at Corbyn's purge, any Labour MP that stays on the frontbench is implicitly endorsing it.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Jonathan Reynolds does the honourable thing. The shadow cabinet do not.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Are we getting a betting market on how many days it takes to replace him?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    Scott_P said:

    Arrrhhh he is former James Purnell SAD, that makes some sense now...

    I thought yesterday nobody would resign because "nobody wanted to be james Purnell". He is obviously the exception...
    Why would nobody want a healthy six-figure salary at the Beeb as Head of Outreach?
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    Arrrhhh he is former James Purnell SAD, that makes some sense now...

    I thought yesterday nobody would resign because "nobody wanted to be james Purnell". He is obviously the exception...
    Why would nobody want a healthy six-figure salary at the Beeb as Head of Outreach?
    And to have your career made into a a BBC sitcom...

    W1A
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: First to go...Jonathan Reynolds, shadow rail minister resigns

    @STJamesl: Of course, Jonny Reynolds worked for James Purnell when he quit (and nobody followed him...)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: 3 others almost certain to follow, maybe more - Corbyn's team confident no big names but damage nonetheless
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html

    The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.

    True, but the Tories will sort themselves out one way or another within six months of the referendum, whichever way it goes. After which the press, having taken a break from Labour's infighting, will be happy to resume the thread.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited January 2016
    ScottP beat me, do they even have enough loyal careerists to replace this?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iAlexhunt: Watch: Hilary Benn says 'I haven't been muzzled' - https://t.co/DKvj2uegP8
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    Agree with Mr Herdson that Corbyn intended to get rid of Benn & Eagle but the political consequences of doing so made him U-turn. I think that also accounts for why it took so long.

    What seems totally inept to me is why Benn & Eagle were appointed to Foreign Sec and Defence in the first place. Their views were well known, it was obvious that Trident and Syria would become major issues in this parliament. Moving one and keeping the other in place out of weakness a few months after appointing them looks totally incompetent.

    I think a party split is wishful thinking. I suspect the moderate camp will give the hard left enough rope to hang itself so that eventually an electable alternative will arise after the Corbyn faction has been given sufficient time to become totally discredited.

    I believe that it will eventually be such a shambles that the next leader will not be anyone closely associated with the current shadow cabinet. Benn's chances have diminished and my money would be on those that are keeping their distance on the back benches.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: 3 others almost certain to follow, maybe more - Corbyn's team confident no big names but damage nonetheless

    Does anyone have confidence in his team's confidence?

    The team that helped him through the reshuffle that never ends?

    The team that though Emily Thornberry was the right answer to any question?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pauly said:

    ScottP beat me, do they even have enough loyal careerists to replace this?

    Depends how many more (if any) jump
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    Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.

    You are certainly correct to say that the battle has to be taken to the unions and the membership, although I'm not sure you are right in your view that the Labour membership (plus now the Three Quidders) are not quite far to the left. Either way, the biggest problem is that the moderates haven't even started the work required to get the membership back into the real world. Even in the most optimistic scenario from the moderates' point of view, that's going to be a long, hard slog.

    On the impact of the reshuffle specifically, it's shambolic Stalinism. It has strengthened the grip of the extremists on policy and will cement Corbyn in place more firmly. It will also have also weakened his standing even further in the country at large. I remain of the view that Corbyn will last until 2020, and am betting accordingly.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @bbclaurak: 3 others almost certain to follow, maybe more - Corbyn's team confident no big names but damage nonetheless

    So a minnow has more backbone than Benn. Leader material? He's a joke.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Nabavi, may make the Conservative leadership contest more vicious. If 2020 is seen as an easy win, nobody will be stepping back, as Davis did when Howard got the nod from the PCP.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    malcolmg said:

    I'm struggling to see any upside to this reshuffle.

    It's pissed off a bunch more MPs, hasn't solved the Benn problem and now Lady Snob. A Defence Sec shadow that accepted funding from a firm that litigated against soldiers?!

    He has Benn on a leash now, so hows exactly that Benn has no cojones but just another whimpering no mark without principles or backbone. Anything to keep his position, weakling.
    Is Benn really on a leash? He's already said (via briefings) that he is still willing to take a different position from Corbyn. Plus Corbyn has shown himself too weak (no cojones) to sack Benn.
    Two cheeks of the same arse
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838


    True, but the Tories will sort themselves out one way or another within six months of the referendum, whichever way it goes.

    That's my assumption - that there's no real possibility the Tories will split, as in really split into two separate parties.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Sean__Clare: David Cameron on his way to commons on #reshuffle: "is it over yet? It's got to keep going or my jokes don't work"
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    runnymede said:
    Ah you put that up while I was typing. The pb Tories will brush it under the carpet regardless.



    Why would we brush an article under the carpet that says

    I voted for David Cameron as Conservative leader and think that he has done a fine job as Prime Minister. The country is in a better place than it was when he took over.
    TSE I have a question: do you tuck your "I love Dave" tshirt in your y-fronts in the John Major style or do you let it hang loose?

    The article points out quite clearly the reasons why we should leave the EU, of course you knew that and exactly as I predicted brushed it under the carpet.

    Playing the man again and not the ball again.
    lol

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @iAlexhunt: Watch: Hilary Benn says 'I haven't been muzzled' - https://t.co/DKvj2uegP8

    Is it safe for work? I don't want people losing their jobs because their boss catches them watching what they think is a spot of mild S&M.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @CCHQPress: The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.
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    So I wonder how long the re-re-shuffle will take?
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2016

    Broadly the same. There are not many Trots in this country, full stop. Labour is undoubtedly more left wing than it was, but it still has the capacity to be a broad church. The hard left is not only vile, it is also very bad at politics - as Corbyn, McDonnell etc are showing. In time they will be defeated again. That probably means at least nine more years of Tory rule, though. Moderates recognise that, I am sure. But there is no alternative strategy available. The membership (and, importantlt, the unions) is the battleground, not the country.

    You are certainly correct to say that the battle has to be taken to the unions and the membership, although I'm not sure you are right in your view that the Labour membership (plus now the Three Quidders) are not quite far to the left. Either way, the biggest problem is that the moderates haven't even started the work required to get the membership back into the real world. Even in the most optimistic scenario from the moderates' point of view, that's going to be a long, hard slog.

    On the impact of the reshuffle specifically, it's shambolic Stalinism. It has strengthened the grip of the extremists on policy and will cement Corbyn in place more firmly. It will also have also weakened his standing even further in the country at large. I remain of the view that Corbyn will last until 2020, and am betting accordingly.
    Good morning all. The only cure for Labour's woes is for the party to be repeatedly thrashed (not just beaten, thrashed) in a sequence of elections, culminating in 2020.

    Labour are exhibiting a mix of spinelessness and misplaced optimism that renders them unable to change until the electorate bellows rejection in their collective faces.

    Of course, I could be wrong - the electorate might tire of the Tories and vote Corbyn in 2020. Oh my, had to wipe away the tears of laughter as I typed that last sentence.

    PS Dan Hannan hits the mark with his EU article, as ever.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Wanderer, when Cameron started as leader, he had a party of just over 200 MPs and was facing a three time election-winning Labour leader.

    Now he has an outright majority, and the Labour Party is about 100 seats and 60 years behind him. He's perhaps regretting saying he'd go, or perhaps he feels more comfortable doing so, given the next Conservative leader should win (unlike when Blair left).
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2016
    England now 4 down in the cricket....we really really could lose this.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited January 2016
    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/684661133547016192

    More likely now I should think... probably either still writing their speeches or bottling it.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I totally understand why the pb Tories are enjoying the Labour farce but please don't rest easy, the inevitable political ebb and flow is coming your way soon. Dan Hannan confirms what a couple of us on here have been saying for a while, a vote to a Remain is not for the status quo it's a whole new level of involvement.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html

    The press will tire of Corbyn once the Tories start fighting, they defer to nobody in their ability to have a good in house ruck. Villiers and Grayling have got the ball rolling, no big deal, if Gove and May join in Dave's in big trouble, he'll be in the bunker with Osborne and not many others.

    I know you're not Labour, but it is a mistake to see ebb & flow as inevitable. Labour might well just ebb & ebb. Eventually, of course, something will oppose the Conservatives, but it might take a long time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Japan)
    You're absolutely correct but I'm referring to the sparring that occurs here and elsewhere, the Tories on here have been basking in a peculiar reflected glory since May, it won't always be like that.

    Dave has built the referendum up into a vote on his premiership. Of course it's odds on that he'll be crowned, but my word if Leave wins the fallout on here will be catatonic, one or two will be put on suicide watch.

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    Pauly said:

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/684661133547016192

    More likely now I should think... probably either still writing their speeches or bottling it.

    Red Ken will be pleased.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Pauly said:

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/684661133547016192

    More likely now I should think... probably either still writing their speeches or bottling it.

    As others have said, they should be co-ordinating things so that it happens once per hour all the way through the day.

    That way, the media is paying maximum attention
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. 63, Cameron absolutely hasn't done that.

    It can hardly be a confidence matter if the Cabinet has a free vote. And he's going whatever happens.
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    Might Grayling end up leading the Conservative Leave campaign?

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/01/might-grayling-end-up-leading-the-conservative-leave-campaign.html

    If that ends up happening, pile your money on Remain....
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    All kicking off in Labour now - popcorn time!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,703
    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today
    0 retweets 0 likes
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Urquhart, .....

    Grayling should be locked in the same shed as Farage.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Conspiracy Theory: Corbyn and McMao have shares in the popcorn industry. Only remotely rational explanation since his name made it onto the ballot.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Not enough to cause real damage. But fun to watch nonetheless
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    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Cameron might actually start to wonder a bit now....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dugher’s also the kind of MP a middle-class north London leftie can’t afford to dispatch so crudely. First, voters may notice, especially in Dugher’s native South Yorkshire where sensibilities are attuned to slights and respect for Islington politics is not as great as Islington’s sense of entitlement expects.

    Second, he’s a trade union toughie, now 40 and an MP only since 2010, one who understands machine politics and the dark arts better than the over-educated armchair revolutionaries at the leader’s elbow.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2016/jan/06/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-reshuffle
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,257
    Floater said:

    All kicking off in Labour now - popcorn time!

    Yipee!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,257
    Here is the problem in a nutshell. JC is a class-A hypocrite:

    Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 33m33 minutes ago
    Pat McFadden - accused of disloyalty - tells me he has never voted against the Labour whip. (Corbyn has voted against whip over 500 times.)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Reynolds writes in his resignation letter that ‘I cannot in good conscience endorse the world view of the Stop the War Coalition, who I believe to be fundamentally wrong in their assessment and understanding of the threats the UK faces. The security and well-being of my constituents must always be my first consideration and I therefore believe my colleague Pat McFadden was right to condemn those who would to any degree absolve ISIS for their actions following the atrocities in Paris’.

    Reynolds leaving the frontbench is not a great shock to the Corbyn camp, and even though there are more junior ministerial resignations expected, those will most likely not have a seismic effect on Corbyn’s hold on power. Unless the Shadow Cabinet were to resign en masse – which they now won’t do because Hilary Benn and Rosie Winterton remain in place and Maria Eagle has not been sacked but sent to her ‘dream job’ (according to John McDonnell) – Corbyn will be able to continue in Parliament much as he did before, just with a few different faces on the frontbench.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/first-labour-frontbencher-resigns-in-protest-at-corbyns-reshuffle/
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    John_M said:

    PS Dan Hannan hits the mark with his EU article, as ever.

    Dan is always one of the most persusive and reasonable advocates for leaving the EU, so it's no surprise that this article puts the case well. Even so, it still leaves a huge void: even if you accept everything he says, the EU will still be there. The structural problems of the Euro, for example, won't disappear if we leave, and will still have a big effect on our economy.

    The key bit, to my mind, is this:

    An MP friend who is campaigning to remain in told me: “It’s like banks. Everyone moans about their bank; but they hardly ever bother to move their accounts.”

    That is very true, and yet even Dan is moaning about the current bank without telling us what alternative account we should switch to.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. 63, Cameron absolutely hasn't done that.

    It can hardly be a confidence matter if the Cabinet has a free vote. And he's going whatever happens.

    Mr Dancer I think you underestimate the ego of politicians, most especially PMs. Dave will see an Out vote as complete humiliation, hounded out of office because of a referendum he never wanted.

    I maintain he should be ok, but I'm far less certain than I was 6 months ago, who knows what may happen between now and the vote itself, the date of which Dave is dithering over.

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,257
    As predicted:


    CCHQ Press Office
    @CCHQPress
    The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Surely one will be Andy Burnham. That fine, upstanding man of principle whose campaign manager was sacked yesterday. Incredible he has not gone already really.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,703
    Michael White:

    But Dugher’s also the kind of MP a middle-class north London leftie can’t afford to dispatch so crudely. First, voters may notice, especially in Dugher’s native South Yorkshire where sensibilities are attuned to slights and respect for Islington politics is not as great as Islington’s sense of entitlement expects.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2016/jan/06/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-reshuffle
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today
    0 retweets 0 likes

    Front bench or junior shadows ?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,257
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Surely one will be Andy Burnham. That fine, upstanding man of principle whose campaign manager was sacked yesterday. Incredible he has not gone already really.
    Perhaps these people need the money? Why else be involved in this insanity?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. 63, I agree a Leave vote would be seen as a failure for Cameron, but people won't be voting Leave or Remain (mostly) to kick Cameron or laud him. It'll be about the EU.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    If corbyn so clearly convinced the stop the war world view is what the voters want, he should welcome these resignations
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,480
    edited January 2016

    As predicted:


    CCHQ Press Office
    @CCHQPress
    The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.

    What did I say on Sunday. Tories will keep on banging on about National Security until 2020.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016

    Mr. 63, Cameron absolutely hasn't done that.

    It can hardly be a confidence matter if the Cabinet has a free vote. And he's going whatever happens.

    Mr Dancer I think you underestimate the ego of politicians, most especially PMs. Dave will see an Out vote as complete humiliation, hounded out of office because of a referendum he never wanted.

    I maintain he should be ok, but I'm far less certain than I was 6 months ago, who knows what may happen between now and the vote itself, the date of which Dave is dithering over.

    Dithering = Forever putting off the reporting of supposed voting irregularities, and 'loosened' wheel nuts to the police.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Floater said:

    All kicking off in Labour now - popcorn time!

    That remains to be seen – the whole reshuffle kafuffle has been a car crash in slow-mo.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    edited January 2016

    As predicted:


    CCHQ Press Office
    @CCHQPress
    The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.

    What did I say on Sunday. Tories will keep on about banging on National Security until 2020.
    It is part of their long term plan....
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    John_M said:

    PS Dan Hannan hits the mark with his EU article, as ever.

    Dan is always one of the most persusive and reasonable advocates for leaving the EU, so it's no surprise that this article puts the case well. Even so, it still leaves a huge void: even if you accept everything he says, the EU will still be there. The structural problems of the Euro, for example, won't disappear if we leave, and will still have a big effect on our economy.

    The key bit, to my mind, is this:

    An MP friend who is campaigning to remain in told me: “It’s like banks. Everyone moans about their bank; but they hardly ever bother to move their accounts.”

    That is very true, and yet even Dan is moaning about the current bank without telling us what alternative account we should switch to.
    He goes on to say there may not be another bank to go to and we should make arrangements now. You were quite selective in your quote, may I say.

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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Scott_P said:
    It should be "Look upon this threat to national security, ye voters, and despair!".
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    North Korea and their new nuke just are beyond satire here.

    No situation is improbable.

    As predicted:


    CCHQ Press Office
    @CCHQPress
    The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Surely one will be Andy Burnham. That fine, upstanding man of principle whose campaign manager was sacked yesterday. Incredible he has not gone already really.
    Perhaps these people need the money? Why else be involved in this insanity?
    Do they actually get money for being shadows other than LOTO? I don't think they do. They get staff and SPADs so they can employ their pals when in cabinet positions but I don't think they get paid.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. StClare, it's more like when the super class star destroyer plunged into the second Death Star.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,257

    As predicted:


    CCHQ Press Office
    @CCHQPress
    The appointment of Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary confirms the Labour Party is a threat to our national security.

    What did I say on Sunday. Tories will keep on banging on about National Security until 2020.
    Yep. Astonishing you can only get around 9/1 on Corbyn being PM.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:

    PS Dan Hannan hits the mark with his EU article, as ever.

    Dan is always one of the most persusive and reasonable advocates for leaving the EU, so it's no surprise that this article puts the case well. Even so, it still leaves a huge void: even if you accept everything he says, the EU will still be there. The structural problems of the Euro, for example, won't disappear if we leave, and will still have a big effect on our economy.

    The key bit, to my mind, is this:

    An MP friend who is campaigning to remain in told me: “It’s like banks. Everyone moans about their bank; but they hardly ever bother to move their accounts.”

    That is very true, and yet even Dan is moaning about the current bank without telling us what alternative account we should switch to.
    I take your point Richard. My great worry is that a UK 'remain' vote will be seen as assent for whatever the hell the Federalists want to do.

    My consolation is that we can take a leaf out of the SNP's playbook and redefine 'generation' to mean 'a short, but indeterminate length of time'. We don't have to just have one referendum.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited January 2016
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Surely one will be Andy Burnham. That fine, upstanding man of principle whose campaign manager was sacked yesterday. Incredible he has not gone already really.
    Perhaps these people need the money? Why else be involved in this insanity?
    Do they actually get money for being shadows other than LOTO? I don't think they do. They get staff and SPADs so they can employ their pals when in cabinet positions but I don't think they get paid.
    Only LOTO and the chief whip get paid.

    Also, has SPAD selection not been centralised?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Consistent with her lack of belief in defence?
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    He goes on to say there may not be another bank to go to and we should make arrangements now. You were quite selective in your quote, may I say.

    I need to go to an optician, I can't see anywhere in that article where he says that "there may not be another bank to go to ", but even if he did, what on earth has that got to do with my point?

    As for being selective in my quotation, I picked out what I thought was the key difficulty which the Leave side have to address. I recommend reading the whole article, of course.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: I'm told there will be at least four front bench Labour resignations today

    Surely one will be Andy Burnham. That fine, upstanding man of principle whose campaign manager was sacked yesterday. Incredible he has not gone already really.
    Perhaps these people need the money? Why else be involved in this insanity?
    Do they actually get money for being shadows other than LOTO? I don't think they do. They get staff and SPADs so they can employ their pals when in cabinet positions but I don't think they get paid.
    Only LOTO and the chief whip get paid.

    Also, has SPAD selection not been centralised?
    There was talk of that but I don't think it has happened yet.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. 63, I agree a Leave vote would be seen as a failure for Cameron, but people won't be voting Leave or Remain (mostly) to kick Cameron or laud him. It'll be about the EU.

    Until recently I agreed with you but reading the comments on here about Farage the referendum is becoming a strange animal. As I pointed out previously,nth vote is "meh" to many, there's a chance that labour voters will take the opportunity of giving Cameron a kicking.

    Labour hatred of the Tories far greater than their love of the EU.

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    watford30 said:

    Mr. 63, Cameron absolutely hasn't done that.

    It can hardly be a confidence matter if the Cabinet has a free vote. And he's going whatever happens.

    Mr Dancer I think you underestimate the ego of politicians, most especially PMs. Dave will see an Out vote as complete humiliation, hounded out of office because of a referendum he never wanted.

    I maintain he should be ok, but I'm far less certain than I was 6 months ago, who knows what may happen between now and the vote itself, the date of which Dave is dithering over.

    Dithering = Forever putting off the reporting of supposed voting irregularities, and 'loosened' wheel nuts to the police.
    I clearly hit the spot there for you to deflect it to a non story about Farage.

    It seems the Dithering Dave meme has legs judging by the defensive response.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,703
    Just as well it was 'only a bonus':

    Oil Falls to 11 Year Low

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-idUSKBN0UK04C20160106
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    He goes on to say there may not be another bank to go to and we should make arrangements now. You were quite selective in your quote, may I say.

    I need to go to an optician, I can't see anywhere in that article where he says that "there may not be another bank to go to ", but even if he did, what on earth has that got to do with my point?

    As for being selective in my quotation, I picked out what I thought was the key difficulty which the Leave side have to address. I recommend reading the whole article, of course.
    But "remainers" cant tell us what services and rates the bank we are in will be demanding in 3 years time and if we stay we are locked in for another 30 years.

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    John_M said:

    I take your point Richard. My great worry is that a UK 'remain' vote will be seen as assent for whatever the hell the Federalists want to do.

    Yes, absolutely, and that was a point I made repeatedly well before the 2010 election, when the Kipperish tendency were laying into Cameron for not promising an immediate referendum.

    We'll have to wait and see exactly what the renegotiation brings, but if there is some sort of formal recognition of the structural divide between the Eurozone and non-Eurozone countries, I can see a possible way forward whereby our EU friends get into the habit of concentrating their ever-closer union on the core Eurozone with the UK seen as on the periphery.
This discussion has been closed.