You see your point is a double edged sword, I'm far more concerned with what happens if we stay than if we leave. I have complete confidence in us trading freely with the rest of the world as we did for decades, I'm surprised you don't share that confidence in our govt.
Sigh...
The reason that the Leave side is going to fail, and fail badly, is well encapsulated in what you have said. You have completely misunderstood my point. I wasn't arguing on either side, I was explaining the difficulty which the Leave side has in persuading those who are not already true believers. Of course you agree with Dan Hannan that we'd be better off Out. You are talking to yourselves, as the Leave side almost always does. To have any hope of persuading the Don't Knows and the persuadable to shift your way, you need to understand that they are -by definition - not obsessed with the EU and certainly don't think it is the root of all evil. You have to find and express arguments which will convince them that it's worth taking what they will see as a leap in the dark and a big risk. You also need to stop personalising the subject, this is not about Cameron or the Conservatives, but about jobs.
Personalising the subject? Your stance is extraordinary bearing in mind you've stated that whichever side the PM comes down on will win. And to clarify, I don't need to persuade anybody what to do, I have zero influence on anybody, I'm simply pointing out why I believe we should leave.
No this is all about you, Mr Nabavi. You want Britain to stay in the EU because you, and many like you, have lost faith in Great Britain as a stand alone nation and want this once great and advanced nation to become a cog in a European Federation.
LOL! I'm flattered to hear that it's all about me, even if I'm bemused to hear that I want Britain to become a cog in a European Federation.
You may not want it Mr Nabavi. But the status quo is not really an option, is it? Ever closer union is. And something like a European Federation is what that will lead to.
The choice is not really between Leave - with all the very many uncertainties and difficulties that will entail - and what we have now but between Leave and further integration.
None of what we have been told Cameron has asked for will put a stop to further integration. So if we Remain that is what we will get.
This is the important part of Cameron's negotiation. It is absolutely obvious and indeed essential that the EZ is going to integrate further. Given that it will hopefully improve their economic performance and demand for our goods and services it is in our interests that they do so.
So what will the relationship be between non EZ members and the EZ bloc? What will be our protections against them using the EU to the advantage of the Euro and the ECB rather than all the members? There needs to be a very good answer to this or we have to try our luck in the EEA and see what we can negotiate from the outside.
I am tending to out because I don't see any sign of an answer. Instead the focus is on comparative trivia like in work benefits for people working in this country. We need them to get on with integrating and still have a say and the right to protect our essential interests. Or we leave. It surely is that simple.
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So what will the relationship be between non EZ members and the EZ bloc? What will be our protections against them using the EU to the advantage of the Euro and the ECB rather than all the members? There needs to be a very good answer to this or we have to try our luck in the EEA and see what we can negotiate from the outside.
I am tending to out because I don't see any sign of an answer. Instead the focus is on comparative trivia like in work benefits for people working in this country. We need them to get on with integrating and still have a say and the right to protect our essential interests. Or we leave. It surely is that simple.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4657354.ece