politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whoever started the briefing about a “revenge reshuffle” ha
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Whoever started the briefing about a “revenge reshuffle” has done Corbyn no favours
In the end the news that Hilary Benn would remain in post came at 1.07 am and the overall package appears little different from what it was before. Benn is still there while Emily Thornberry replaces Maria Eagle as shadow defence secretary. She in turn switches to the culture job. Full details can be found here.
Comments
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Don't need to be a genius to work out who has been doing all the briefing.0
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Tremor detected near North Korea nuclear site
A 5.1 magnitude earthquake has been detected in North Korea, close to a site previously used for nuclear tests.
Chinese and South Korea officials said there were indications the tremor was man-made, meaning the North may have carried out a new nuclear test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35240012
Hmmmmmm0 -
"Hilary Benn keeps his job… but only if he agrees with the leader"
This will be funny...every question. It will be like "I agree with Nick" all over again.0 -
Seriously poor expectations management from Labour, the reality didn't come close to living up to the briefing.
But two days to shuffle only half a dozen people, really? All to achieve what, the further alienation of half his own party! The guy is bonkers, and Labour are really screwed until the MPs grow a pair - not that I expect mass resignations or SDP2, because as we saw with Brown and then Miliband they don't want to rock the boat.0 -
Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....0 -
Its a good job they have got a sensible and level headed leader. God forbid they ever had a tyrannical nut job dictator in charge.RodCrosby said:Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....0 -
I see the junior doctors are trying to invoke Godwin's Law.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html
From what some of the BMA negotiators have said, the whole thing looks very politically motivated, I feel sorry for the affected patients and hope nothing serious happens due to the strike.0 -
How 'confirmed'?RodCrosby said:Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....
Britain let off the biggest fission bomb ever in our attempts to hoodwink the cousins.....0 -
On topic...not so much 'revenge' as 'peeved' or 'a bit miffed'.....keep up the great work, Seamus!0
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I see the claim is now that it was a 'miniaturised' H bomb......so the North Koreans have done something no other nuclear power has done - set off an H-bomb that wasn't the size of a building first, before proceeding to weaponisation.....colour me sceptical.......0
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Are we back to talking about Labour again?FrancisUrquhart said:
Its a good job they have got a sensible and level headed leader. God forbid they ever had a tyrannical nut job dictator in charge.RodCrosby said:Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....0 -
Labour's reshuffle was reminiscent of Gordon Brown's election that never was, talked up by aides (when Corbyn himself was on holiday) and opponents. This is worrying in itself, since not only has Corbyn (and his team) messed up, they've not learned from previous failures.
Even its length: three days is not much longer than the two days reshuffles normally take (Cabinet one day, junior ministers the next) but the fevered speculation made it feel like this one lasted a fortnight. Diane Abbot as Shadow FS, anyone?0 -
To hoodwink the British. Our Eton and Cambridge educated spies would have seen to it that the Kremlin knew even before we'd told Washington.CarlottaVance said:
How 'confirmed'?RodCrosby said:Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....
Britain let off the biggest fission bomb ever in our attempts to hoodwink the cousins.....0 -
The next parliamentary stupidity will be the debate about banning Trump, which will offend even Americans who oppose the Donald (which is most of them).0
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how ridiculousDecrepitJohnL said:The next parliamentary stupidity will be the debate about banning Trump, which will offend even Americans who oppose the Donald (which is most of them).
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Story is now Labour's supposedly balanced defence review has descended into a pointless circle-jerk for Emily and Ken. Two dissidents purged, one demoted and one supposedly silenced.0
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How long is Benn going to stay in post if he has to agree with Corbyn in public? Either it means Corbyn will shut op or Benn will. Its not looking good either way.0
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It wasn't to fool the White House or the US Military - who'd already "accidently" shown us the Teller-Ulam principle, by allowing British scientists direct feeds from American instruments on their tests. It was to have a fig leaf to show to the small minority of nuclear isolationists in US Congress.DecrepitJohnL said:
To hoodwink the British. Our Eton and Cambridge educated spies would have seen to it that the Kremlin knew even before we'd told Washington.CarlottaVance said:
How 'confirmed'?RodCrosby said:Confirmed:
North Korea has tested its first H-bomb, which tremor was originally thought to be an earthquake....
Britain let off the biggest fission bomb ever in our attempts to hoodwink the cousins.....
As to whether N Korea was testing an SOB or a real H Bomb - you can actually tell alot from the shock waves from the detonation....
It's worth remembering that the reason that the first H Bombs were vast was that the primaries had very high z values - they absorbed their own x rays, due to the vast amount of explosives used. The key to miniaturisation was the realisation that you want a terrible A-bomb - barely goes pop, but uses almost no explosives. Then you use fusion boosting to get a decent yield out of that. That and the fact that natural lithium is all you need to mix with the tritium.
Most of the big secrets about the bomb are public domain. The last one which hasn't been officially confirmed is that X rays do the pushing on the secondary. But the physics on that is clear.0 -
The question implicit in Mike's leader is whether the PR team went out on an authorised or unauthorised wing. They obviously knew that a reshuffle was going to happen given that they briefed about it and that it has happened. The only alternative is that Corbyn was bounced into it by his PR bods which is surely unlikely: if they had gone off on one then it's they who would have had to have gone.
So we have to conclude that they knew in advance. If they knew that the reshuffle was taking place then it's reasonable to assume that the details they leaked were also Corbyn's intentions as (as has happened) were the leaks subsequently not substantiated then both PR team and leader look weak and incompetent.
Therefore the only conclusion I can reach is that Corbyn did want to reshuffle Benn away from Foreign Affairs but found he didn't have the strength to do so.
I'm not sure I agree with Mike's comment that "No doubt Corbyn himself will have learned a lot in the past three days". I wouldn't be at all surprised to see exactly the same mistakes repeated in the future.0 -
South Korea's defence ministry says a small amount of hydrogen may have been added to the device that North Korea tested, Reuters reports.
"We will find out after closely analysing it but we understand a small amount of hydrogen may have been added to the fourth nuclear test,"
Adding "a small amount of hydrogen" to an Atom bomb does not make it a hydrogen bomb.....0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...0 -
Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.
At a very minimum, he should have been moved sideways to International Development or Russian Affairs [ the only thing he knows about ]. Maria Eagle has been correctly moved.
There was a lot of talk that Corbyn , the first time round, did not give women important jobs.
I beg to disagree. Maria only got the job because she is a woman.0 -
On the face of it this sounds like a good idea, the NHS shouldn't be a political football (weaponised or not).foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...0 -
The "mistakes" were fewer than last time. I do not see why a reshuffle particularly in Opposition cannot take two days - even a week. There are no papers to sign. The world will not come to an end. In any case, the person in situ is very much there until an announcement has been made.david_herdson said:The question implicit in Mike's leader is whether the PR team went out on an authorised or unauthorised wing. They obviously knew that a reshuffle was going to happen given that they briefed about it and that it has happened. The only alternative is that Corbyn was bounced into it by his PR bods which is surely unlikely: if they had gone off on one then it's they who would have had to have gone.
So we have to conclude that they knew in advance. If they knew that the reshuffle was taking place then it's reasonable to assume that the details they leaked were also Corbyn's intentions as (as has happened) were the leaks subsequently not substantiated then both PR team and leader look weak and incompetent.
Therefore the only conclusion I can reach is that Corbyn did want to reshuffle Benn away from Foreign Affairs but found he didn't have the strength to do so.
I'm not sure I agree with Mike's comment that "No doubt Corbyn himself will have learned a lot in the past three days". I wouldn't be at all surprised to see exactly the same mistakes repeated in the future.
Regarding Benn, I am extremely disappointed that he was not sacked. The fact that shadow cabinet members can run policies independent of the party, shadow cabinet and the leader is surely a sackable offence. If he is so "principled" a bomber, he can, of course, show off his principles from the back benches. Yvette did. Also 4% Kendall. Nobody is criticising them.0 -
It does seem a good idea. I would not trust either Dorrell or Milburn very far as both badly bodged their time as Health Minister, but Norman Lamb was excellent.logical_song said:
On the face of it this sounds like a good idea, the NHS shouldn't be a political football (weaponised or not).foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...0 -
100 surgeries isn't a crisis.. how many surgeries are there in England, there must be a very large number..foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...
I have just moved surgeries with no difficulty bar the choice of GP I actually wanted.
Where are the increasing numbers of practises that cannot recruit.
Sounds more like a scare story by the BMA to me.0 -
Well, this is a politics site. I'm sure there will be plenty about privileged Juniors throwing their toys overboard soon enough. In the meantime, have you tried WhiningDoctor.com?foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...0 -
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.
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My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.JohnLilburne said:
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.0 -
Another 'crisis' in the NHS?
Well, I never.0 -
What Jeremy Corbyn has clearly shown everyone - even the dimmest of Labour party members - is that he is incapable of leadership. They may not care right now, but as the defeats rack up they will begin to. This has been a good few days.0
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The NHS has more crises than 11 seasons of Greys Anatomy.chestnut said:
Another 'crisis' in the NHS?
Well, I never.0 -
Well if he speaks and votes that way I imagine he thinks that way. If it was settled Labour Party policy not to bomb IS in Syria, why wasn't the vote whipped? Arguably foreign/defence policies are not left to the individual consciences of MPs. Given that it was a free vote, you have to accept the consequences of that.surbiton said:
My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.JohnLilburne said:
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.
In any case it was a one-off. Or is it now Labour policy never to bomb anyone, anywhere?0 -
He maybe a wacko. But he is certainly a weako !!SouthamObserver said:What Jeremy Corbyn has clearly shown everyone - even the dimmest of Labour party members - is that he is incapable of leadership. They may not care right now, but as the defeats rack up they will begin to. This has been a good few days.
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Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.0 -
Whatever JC does or does not do will be trashed by his political opponents, inside and beyond the Labour Party. Especially here, where most of the posters are Tories and/or Blairites.
Of LotOs in recent years, only Herself, Smith and Blair were anything other than failures. Even Cammo could not win an outright majority against a Labour Party exhausted by the unprecedented & degrading experience of 13 years of managing capitalism. No wonder neither it, nor its chosen leader, want to go there again.0 -
Waste of time and effort. You can't amend a religion through logic. As an aside, I can't see Labour losing their last shroud, so if the conclusion is anything other than spend more more money can anyone really see Corbyn and co agreeing with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.0 -
Alternatively, these former HM's could get together and hammer out a proposal that would stand a chance of being accepted by the whole house. This could be done on the QT and not revealed until everyone was happy with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.0 -
Imagine the never ending wave of protests and strikes if Labour had won those GE's, and their proposed changes/cuts to the NHS budget had been introduced.Plato_Says said:The NHS has more crises than 11 seasons of Greys Anatomy.
chestnut said:Another 'crisis' in the NHS?
Well, I never.0 -
By that assessment you would disqualify an awful lot of Labour MPs from the shadow cabinet based on their presence on this list - including all three women that Corbyn promoted and both Eagles.surbiton said:
My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.JohnLilburne said:
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.0 -
Interestingly convenient newly revealed end of the world "omigod 100+ practices have applied to close their lists" data from the Beeb.logical_song said:
On the face of it this sounds like a good idea, the NHS shouldn't be a political football (weaponised or not).foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...
It seems to have been in the public domain when reported by the Telegraph and Pulse in Sept 2014.
BBC Jan 2016:
"Large numbers of GP surgeries in England have stopped taking on new patients or have applied to do so, a BBC investigation has found.
The British Medical Association (BMA) says many are at "breaking point" as they struggle to fill staff vacancies.
At least 100 surgeries applied to NHS England to stop accepting new patients in 2014/15, a Freedom of Information request revealed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
Telegraph Sept 2014:
"New figures show that last year 104 GP practices applied to NHS authorities for permission to stop accepting patients – more than twice as many as two years before."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11082166/GP-crisis-as-soaring-numbers-refusing-to-take-patients.html
I'd say someone is politically trolling the media for political purposes, or the Beeb are doing their too-common inadequate reporting.0 -
Matt, what benefits do you see in Labour's being a legal Party? Have they not, in your view, done far more damage to England, and for far longer, than all the Muslim extremists put together?matt said:
Waste of time and effort. You can't amend a religion through logic. As an aside, I can't see Labour losing their last shroud, so if the conclusion is anything other than spend more more money can anyone really see Corbyn and co agreeing with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
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Dan Hannan: "There is no Status Quo"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12083557/We-cant-stick-with-the-status-quo-on-the-EU-because-there-isnt-one.html"When you’re on a bus, heading somewhere you don’t want to go, the status quo doesn’t mean remaining in your seat. It means stepping off. You won’t get another chance."
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Off-topic:
The HoL Reform Act (2014) allowed Lords to finally resign, but also makes provision to exclude members who fail to attend the House for a whole session.
It appears the exclusions take effect at the start of the subsequent session, does anyone know if there is a list of current non-attendance? This could have implications for the size of the HoL around the time of Cameron's next appointments.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Sandpit, an interesting line from Hannan.
On-topic: mistake for Maria Eagle to let herself be shifted (at best sideways). Whilst Benn's still there, removing someone who isn't mental from Defence and installing the messenger from the Planet Snob is a backward step for Labour, and a forward step for Corbyn.
Saw the Crusades programme[sp] last night. Rather liked it.0 -
I disagree and think the chances of Corbyn surviving are now lower. He has made himself look weak and a laughing stock while Hillary Benn retains a big post and looks even stronger and must now be odds-on to replace Corbyn before the election if Labour suffers terrible local election results or loses a by election0
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Not possible. The pressures on the NHS are demographic - as we age we need far more healthcare. Since the population as a whole is ageing, the amount of healthcare needed (as determined on current views of need) will rise far ahead of any measure of inflation.Blue_rog said:
Alternatively, these former HM's could get together and hammer out a proposal that would stand a chance of being accepted by the whole house. This could be done on the QT and not revealed until everyone was happy with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
We have two options:
1) do less through the state and expect some or all of the public to pay for the rest privately
2) do the same as at present and see health take up an ever-increasing share of the public sector
If we go for some version of 1, we need a clearly agreed method of determining what's in and what's not. That's never going to be achieved without extensive public debate. If we go for 2, the numbers need to be fully understood in advance - they're very big in the long term.0 -
No, of course not. Try trolling elsewhere.Innocent_Abroad said:
Matt, what benefits do you see in Labour's being a legal Party? Have they not, in your view, done far more damage to England, and for far longer, than all the Muslim extremists put together?matt said:
Waste of time and effort. You can't amend a religion through logic. As an aside, I can't see Labour losing their last shroud, so if the conclusion is anything other than spend more more money can anyone really see Corbyn and co agreeing with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.0 -
It's amazing the way Dr Eoin Clarke's sticky fingers appear to be connected to this mess as well. As such, I take the propaganda coming out of the BMA with some scepticism.MattW said:
Interestingly convenient newly revealed end of the world "omigod 100+ practices have applied to close their lists" data from the Beeb.logical_song said:
On the face of it this sounds like a good idea, the NHS shouldn't be a political football (weaponised or not).foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Meanwhile increasing numbers of GP practices cannot recruit or retain GPs and are closing their doors to new patients:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
But lets keep to the subject of the deck chair arrangements on the Titanic...
It seems to have been in the public domain when reported by the Telegraph and Pulse in Sept 2014.
BBC Jan 2016:
"Large numbers of GP surgeries in England have stopped taking on new patients or have applied to do so, a BBC investigation has found.
The British Medical Association (BMA) says many are at "breaking point" as they struggle to fill staff vacancies.
At least 100 surgeries applied to NHS England to stop accepting new patients in 2014/15, a Freedom of Information request revealed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35200033
Telegraph Sept 2014:
"New figures show that last year 104 GP practices applied to NHS authorities for permission to stop accepting patients – more than twice as many as two years before."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11082166/GP-crisis-as-soaring-numbers-refusing-to-take-patients.html
I'd say someone is politically trolling the media for political purposes, or the Beeb are doing their too-common inadequate reporting.0 -
Just to note the point that this is another matt not me.matt said:
No, of course not. Try trolling elsewhere.Innocent_Abroad said:
Matt, what benefits do you see in Labour's being a legal Party? Have they not, in your view, done far more damage to England, and for far longer, than all the Muslim extremists put together?matt said:
Waste of time and effort. You can't amend a religion through logic. As an aside, I can't see Labour losing their last shroud, so if the conclusion is anything other than spend more more money can anyone really see Corbyn and co agreeing with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
Good morning, Mr Matt !
Matt W0 -
If Cameron can have a free vote on the EU so can Corbyn on airstrikessurbiton said:
My objection is to his "free" thinking. A bomber should have no place in the Labour top table. He can do his principles [ i.e. bomb ] sitting on the backbenches.JohnLilburne said:
Huh? It was a free vote. MPs are entitled to speak and vote according to their conscience.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. Benn went against the wishes of the members of the Labour Party.0 -
Bizarre reshuffle by Jezza. Has Hilary no shame? He has voluntarily become Jezza's bitch. Walking around in the Commons must be challenging.
Thornberry? Even CiF gets it - in response to the geographical make up of the cabinet: "maybe South London would be a start."
Apart from her self-hating Englishness.
Off-topic, Nth Korea - always reminds me of this:
theonion.com/article/waiver-wire-ep-5-350 -
He could always try taking his own advice.MattW said:
Just to make the point that this is some other matt not me.matt said:
No, of course not. Try trolling elsewhere.Innocent_Abroad said:
Matt, what benefits do you see in Labour's being a legal Party? Have they not, in your view, done far more damage to England, and for far longer, than all the Muslim extremists put together?matt said:
Waste of time and effort. You can't amend a religion through logic. As an aside, I can't see Labour losing their last shroud, so if the conclusion is anything other than spend more more money can anyone really see Corbyn and co agreeing with it.Sandpit said:
Fantastic if it happens, healthcare shouldn't need to be a political football - as the juniors in the BMA are showing us all this week - but as demographics change and technology improves there will be increasing pressures on the cost of healthcare so a cross party approach is a sensible approach to take.foxinsoxuk said:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35233346
Con, LD, and Labour former Health ministers call for cross party commission on the future of the NHS.
Ideally a Royal Commission or similar with wide remit to include social and nursing care, with inputs from all sides to report by the end of the current Parliament.
Matt W
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Perhaps Congress will debate banning Corbyn tooDecrepitJohnL said:The next parliamentary stupidity will be the debate about banning Trump, which will offend even Americans who oppose the Donald (which is most of them).
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Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!0 -
Notwithstanding the flag thing, is thornberry really that bad a choice?0
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FPT: Names
>Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
Is there any explanation for Ernle-Erle?
I would like to think that the Vicar had a stutter after too much Single Malt, but that would be inconceivably delicious.0 -
Keeping Benn is odd. It just makes me think of how labour pretended for years Blair and brown still got along, fooling no one.0
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On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?0
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What a let down.0
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Mr. Brackenbury, if that's true, to quote myself from yesterday, then Benn's agreed he'll wear a gimp suit, provided he can choose the colour of the zips.
I know I've always said Labour are sheep, Conservatives wolves, but this is nothing but rank cowardice.
They were all bitching about Dugher being thrown overboard, but Eagle has meekly traipsed from Defence and it seems Benn has agreed that being Corbyn's mouthpiece is preferable to actually saying what he believes.0 -
McMao sounds like a petulant child on Today.
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I'm struggling to see any upside to this reshuffle.
It's pissed off a bunch more MPs, hasn't solved the Benn problem and now Lady Snob. A Defence Sec shadow that accepted funding from a firm that litigated against soldiers?!
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Leaving aside her unilateral tendencies, I have the impression that her habit is to smooth over problems without addressing the real question while patronising people - perhaps almost Dawn Primarolo style.kle4 said:Notwithstanding the flag thing, is thornberry really that bad a choice?
But my view may be coloured by listening to too many MP panels on The Westminster Hour, so I'm open to correction.0 -
It's the new politics, innit? Anyone who watched John McDonnell's performance on TV this morning will be fully satisfied that everything within the Labour Party is fine and hunky-dory.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
I'm wondering how many things Corbynites will try to excuse using the "new politics" spin.0 -
Paul Waugh
V signif. John McDonnell says Benn will be free to express view on free vote from backbenches, not frontbench, *while remaining* in ShadCab0 -
Miss Plato, Labour's got a leader who dislikes the anthem and a Defence spokesman who dislikes the flag. Match made in socialist heaven.
Edited extra bit: actually, that's a shade unfair. Not all socialists are as bad as Corbyn.
Edited extra bit 2: Mr. Eagles, that's bloody ridiculous. Benn's busy throwing away all the kudos he earnt for his Commons speech on Syria. Damned fool, or damned coward?0 -
Corbyn needs a master strategist, Seumas Milne is no George Osborne.0
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The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!0 -
Before I'd any idea who she was, whenever she appeared on the news my hackles just spiked. Her manner is appalling, smug and hectoring.
Her, Diane and Ken. What a media team.MattW said:
Leaving aside her unilateral tendencies, I have the impression that her habit is to smooth over problems without addressing the real question while patronising people - perhaps almost Dawn Primarolo style.kle4 said:Notwithstanding the flag thing, is thornberry really that bad a choice?
But my view may be coloured by listening to too many MP panels on The Westminster Hour, so I'm open to correction.0 -
preposterous.. in every sense of the word.. and here are a few synonyms to back it upTheScreamingEagles said:Paul Waugh
V signif. John McDonnell says Benn will be free to express view on free vote from backbenches, not frontbench, *while remaining* in ShadCab
absurd, ridiculous, foolish, stupid, ludicrous, farcical, laughable, comical, risible, hare-brained, asinine, inane, nonsensical, pointless, senseless, insane, unreasonable, irrational, illogical..
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I'm so glad I've been laying Benn as next Lab leader.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, Labour's got a leader who dislikes the anthem and a Defence spokesman who dislikes the flag. Match made in socialist heaven.
Edited extra bit: actually, that's a shade unfair. Not all socialists are as bad as Corbyn.
Edited extra bit 2: Mr. Eagles, that's bloody ridiculous. Benn's busy throwing away all the kudos he earnt for his Commons speech on Syria. Damned fool, or damned coward?
He's just like David Miliband.0 -
Mike be tweeting
So Corbyn’s LAB requires all shadow cabinet to agree with his world view. Goodbye GE20200 -
Beginning to suspect Osborne bought a job lot of magic lamps.
UKIP and the Lib Dems should be working furiously on a strategic plan to tear chunks out of Labour in 2020, and the SNP can cruise to more dominance in Scotland likewise.-1 -
Personally I think predictions of a damp squib reshuffle were right. Benn remaining seems the only shock and mistake (though whose mistake, Corbyn's or his, will depend what happens next). The others are minor people or accepted demotions so won't cause a fuss.0
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In the absence of Ave it....
Tory Maj NAILED ON!0 -
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Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:0 -
I think we can all feel safer knowing Jezza's good relations with N Korea would remove any risk to the UK.CarlottaVance said:South Korea's defence ministry says a small amount of hydrogen may have been added to the device that North Korea tested, Reuters reports.
"We will find out after closely analysing it but we understand a small amount of hydrogen may have been added to the fourth nuclear test,"
Adding "a small amount of hydrogen" to an Atom bomb does not make it a hydrogen bomb.....0 -
Remember Adelaide 2006.0
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Looking forward to Corbo's 'condemnation' of N Korea!0
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I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:0 -
The point of a free vote is that you're allowed to vote freely, at least outside of Stalinist societies. Benn argued his case in Shadow Cabinet and Corbyn agreed to a free vote. Corbyn could have insisted on a whipped vote and let events take their course: resignations or sackings. He didn't. Ministers and shadow ministers have a right to their own views and a right to express and argue them within their respective forum. Only once a government / party line has been established does collective responsibility apply - this is still a democracy, not a dictatorship.surbiton said:
The "mistakes" were fewer than last time. I do not see why a reshuffle particularly in Opposition cannot take two days - even a week. There are no papers to sign. The world will not come to an end. In any case, the person in situ is very much there until an announcement has been made.david_herdson said:The question implicit in Mike's leader is whether the PR team went out on an authorised or unauthorised wing. They obviously knew that a reshuffle was going to happen given that they briefed about it and that it has happened. The only alternative is that Corbyn was bounced into it by his PR bods which is surely unlikely: if they had gone off on one then it's they who would have had to have gone.
So we have to conclude that they knew in advance. If they knew that the reshuffle was taking place then it's reasonable to assume that the details they leaked were also Corbyn's intentions as (as has happened) were the leaks subsequently not substantiated then both PR team and leader look weak and incompetent.
Therefore the only conclusion I can reach is that Corbyn did want to reshuffle Benn away from Foreign Affairs but found he didn't have the strength to do so.
I'm not sure I agree with Mike's comment that "No doubt Corbyn himself will have learned a lot in the past three days". I wouldn't be at all surprised to see exactly the same mistakes repeated in the future.
Regarding Benn, I am extremely disappointed that he was not sacked. The fact that shadow cabinet members can run policies independent of the party, shadow cabinet and the leader is surely a sackable offence. If he is so "principled" a bomber, he can, of course, show off his principles from the back benches. Yvette did. Also 4% Kendall. Nobody is criticising them.
Benn played entirely within the rules. If Corbyn can't deal with that then that's his problem. Of course, as leader he still has the right to appoint to / dismiss from his team as he sees fit. But then shadow ministers and back-benchers - as well as the public - also have the right to judge on his suitability to be leader and/or PM based on his actions. And they will.0 -
As an aside, top timing from Corbyn to replace a pro-Trident renewal MP with an anti as Shadow Defence Secretary at the same time as N Korea claims to have exploded an H bomb.0
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Uh oh0
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The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!0 -
What McDonnell and other Corbyn spinners say has been agreed may not necessaily be what has been agreed. We shall see. If Benn's view is different, he now has the opportunity to walk out saying he was lied to, while it has become even harder for Corbyn to sack him.
McFadden seems to have been fired for criticising Stop the War. Excellent.
Of course, folk like NickP will continue to defend kind, compassionate, consensual Jeremy to the hilt, but slowly and surely others will begin to understand what is going on and will react. Perhaps the most significant development of the last few days was Tom Watson coming out in support of Dugher. Like Jezza, he has a big mandate from members.0 -
A smart move by Jezza.
His aim is not personal glory; it's to remake the Labour party in his image. This is what he was put on Earth for, but like changing the course of an ocean liner, you can't swing the wheel and start doing wheelies. It has to be slowly, slowly to boil the frogs and Red Tories within.
When the wind is against, you need to tack, but the destination remains the same.
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Partly because Lady Nugee, but mostly to do with what I wrote last night.Alanbrooke said:
I see you've become a jolly Jack Tar. Any reason for the change ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Worst euphemism ever.Alanbrooke said:
I'm reminding people of the greatest flags in the world. The Cross of St George and The Union Jack are my flags of my country.
Huzzah for England, Huzzah for The UK.
Plus I'm sick and tired from people from all ends of the political spectrum doing down our country, this a fabulous country, and one I'm greatly optimistic about.0 -
I must admit to finding it fascinating watching Labour basically destroying itself as a serious party.0
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Did someone say we don't need Trident..absolutely no need for it whatsoever..0
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Maybe. Thing is, Corbyn was by far the most dynamic candidate last time, and maybe just that more than his lefty was was important to many. If Benn or someone else does a better job than Kendall and co, they could win. It's not as though previous left candidates did well.Wanderer said:
The membership won't vote for him.HYUFD said:
The key vote on Syrian airstrikes has now passed so Benn gets to look loyal and retain a high profile and a major post and be in an ideal position to replace Corbyn as Labour leader in a year or twoDavidBrackenbury said:Hilary Benn has apparently agreed not to take a differing line from JC and all foreign policy statements will be pre-agreed by the leadership first. If this is so, can Hilary Benn go along with this the next time ISIS or terrorism comes before the House of Commons?
Just burying the tensions won't make them go away!0 -
Are Spurs playing today ? I know Liverpool did last night, in the semi final of the Rumbelows CupScrapheap_as_was said:Uh oh
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They failed to establish themselves as the leader in waiting.surbiton said:Very disappointed with Benn retaining his post. Corbyn has proven that he is fundamentally weak.
I am not sure what Dugher and that shadow Europe Minister did which Benn did not do. ....0 -
I always thought that Emily Thornberry was the one with the secret talent of being able to talk to animals but it turns out that is Eliza. What is her secret talent then and why does it make her a suitable shadow for Defence?
As for Benn, is there no humiliation that man will not put up with? The idea that he is a serious contender as a replacement leader has in my view taken something of a knock.0 -
Love means never having to say you're sorry?AlastairMeeks said:On topic, what a mess. What degree of dissent is now permitted among shadow cabinet members? Is there a Corbyn doctrine to explain this?
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Keeping Andy Burnham at the top table is invaluable to this strategy.CD13 said:A smart move by Jezza.
His aim is not personal glory; it's to remake the Labour party in his image. This is what he was put on Earth for, but like changing the course of an ocean liner, you can't swing the wheel and start doing wheelies. It has to be slowly, slowly to boil the frogs and Red Tories within.
When the wind is against, you need to tack, but the destination remains the same.0 -
Adelaide all over again0
