politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Syria – the big debate goes on
Comments
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The attack may have happened at a centre for disabled kids. What the hell.Tim_B said:
They are apparently wearing masks and body armor.MP_SE said:
Apparently there are between 1 and 3 suspects:Tim_B said:Units responding to a 20 victim shooting incident in San Bernardino. - BBC
FBI, ATF also at the scene - CNN & Fox News
Fox News saying a dozen killed and many wounded.
It's early yet so numbers will possibly change.
https://twitter.com/myfoxla/status/6721404653537894400 -
I believe you are confusing 'understand' and 'know'. As an atheist who has lived and worked in the Islamic world a lot, I think I have a fairly good understanding of Islam. As a child whose father was a church warden, I have a fairly good understanding of Christianity - at least Anglicanism. I cannot, however, say I have the faintest knowledge of God.AnneJGP said:
I know very little about Islam, but I do know about belief in God. So I know that those who do not understand belief in God cannot understand Islam.0 -
New Quinnipiac presidential election national poll has Trump extending his lead for the GOP nomination, Rubio inching ahead of Carson and Cruz for second but Hillary and Sanders beating the entire GOP field in the general election
Trump – 27% (24)
Rubio – 17% (14)
Carson – 16% (23)
Cruz – 16% (13)
Bush – 5% (4)
Fiorina – 3% (3)
Christie – 2% (3)
Kasich – 2% (3)
Paul – 2% (2)
Huckabee – 1% (1)
Gilmore – 0% (0)
Graham – 0% (0)
Pataki – 0% (0)
Santorum – 0% (1)
Undecided – 8% (9)
General Election Matchups
Clinton – 45%
Rubio – 44%
Clinton – 46%
Carson – 43%
Clinton – 47%
Cruz – 42%
Clinton – 47%
Trump – 41%
Sanders 44% (41%)
Rubio 43% (47%)
Sanders 47% (39%)
Carson 41% (51%)
Sanders 49% (46%)
Trump 41% (44%)
Sanders 49% (44%)
Cruz 39% (45%)
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=23070 -
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.0 -
Oh Lord, wouldn't it have just been easier to type "Yo Josias Jessop, fancy a loooong argument?"Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.0 -
That was Paul O'Neill's great moment at Alcoa, when he sacked Richard Barton, a star Vice President, for breaching the culture of safety by failing to report a minor accident in one of his plants. "Not sharing an opportunity to learn is a cardinal sin" was O'Neill's response.Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:
I'm sure it is but banking has for far too long thought that it did not need to do anything much, let alone the actions you identify. So now that - finally - some focus is being put on it is a good opportunity to introduce some intelligent thinking into the process. Bankers have a tendency to look only at the costs in monetary terms and, while these are bad enough, the real costs are to reputation and trust, which will take years to re-establish. Sure: no-one dies. But the corrosive effect of a loss of trust is pretty real and damaging nonetheless.MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
Anyway, thank you for the article.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.0 -
@GraemeDemianyk: STW's John Rees warns Labour MPs supporting "corporatists and arms dealers" that "if wanted a quiet life should have become a monk or a nun"
@GraemeDemianyk: Rees tells Labour MPs who "sit on your fat arses" that if appear on "traitors' list" won't get penny of union money0 -
@JohnRentoul: Another Labour MP @RuthSmeeth voting for air strikes: another powerful speech.0
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But not his own people.Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-09/assad-s-atrocities-laid-bare-at-the-un
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/images-syrian-torture-shock-new-yorkers-united-nations
And that's where your 'plan' falls down. How will Assad be able to control the country after a civil war that's killed many of his own troops? At the very least, the grievances that the people who fought him had will have to be answered, and that's leaving out the fact that the war will have hardened many people for and against him.
Assad doesn't have the men, the political capital, or the will to do so. If he did, he would have done it before the civil war got hot.
Going back is not an option. We need to find a new way forwards.0 -
I have been thinking about the state of the world - as you do. If there is a God she is a vile, bitter, angry, unpleasant son of a bitch - and should be rejected. If there isn't - what the heck are we arguing about?0
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Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:
I'm sure it is but banking has for far too long thought that it did not need to do anything much, let alone the actions you identify. So now that - finally - some focus is being put on it is a good opportunity to introduce some intelligent thinking into the process. Bankers have a tendency to look only at the costs in monetary terms and, while these are bad enough, the real costs are to reputation and trust, which will take years to re-establish. Sure: no-one dies. But the corrosive effect of a loss of trust is pretty real and damaging nonetheless.MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
Anyway, thank you for the article.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
PS If you want to email me at enquiries@biosafety.co, I'd be happy to email you a PowerPoint presentation that includes the Alcoa Case Study. The focus is on bio, but you'll see it is readily adaptable.0 -
And he gave himself a massive handicapped himself when he changed clubs for his sponsors.Tim_B said:It looks like it's over for Tiger.
After 3 back operations in 15 months, the last one being unexpected, he has nerve damage in his back.
Watching footage of him glad handing golfers on the range at the tournament he is hosting in the Bahamas this morning he clearly has trouble walking, and he cannot bend over, much less handle even a putter.
He says he spends his time playing video games. He is normally optimistic about rehabbing and getting back into shape, but yesterday he said he had "nothing to look forward to". I've never seen him so down in a presser. There is no time table for his return, his doctor doesn't how long it will be, or IF it will be.
If this is the end, surely it's better to be forced out by injuries than retire because you suck.
Tiger played some of the greatest golf ever seen while in his prime, but Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer ever.0 -
Network affiliates report police waiting for battering rams, bolt cutters and mirrors. - they're going to go through room by room after the bomb is detonated.
Thank God - Obama has been briefed. He will come on TV and make some remarks, typically just enough to politicize it, and then go on to something else. Job done.
Conjecture now is that the shooters may have left in the black SUV I mentioned earlier.0 -
If the number of Labour votes with the government exceeds 50 then the deselection lefties will have their work cut out. Over 20% of the Labour Party... an unwinnable purge.0
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The debate gets better as it goes on0
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Heh It was only a fiver at 5.0. I have a decent green across bookies.TheWhiteRabbit said:0 -
Good advice. But watch the booze. Nasty stuff, vodka.HurstLlama said:
An embassy function usually involves unlimited free booze and all the canapes you can eat plus the chance to chat with some interesting people from different backgrounds, what is there to think about? Just remember to take a doggy bag.MikeSmithson said:I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?
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@jessicaelgot: Extraordinary emotion from MP Tania Mathias, chokes up as she describes marching against Iraq in 2003,but will vote for strikes tonight0
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@jessicaelgot: Backbenches have shown far more thought and nuance than leaders #SyriaVote0
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My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.0 -
She choked up when she defeated Vince Cable as well, and seemed to feel guilty about it.Scott_P said:@jessicaelgot: Extraordinary emotion from MP Tania Mathias, chokes up as she describes marching against Iraq in 2003,but will vote for strikes tonight
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No, because I'm not arguing with that member any more.isam said:
Oh Lord, wouldn't it have just been easier to type "Yo Josias Jessop, fancy a loooong argument?"Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.0 -
The clubs weren't the problem. Many players have done that - Rory is doing OK, changing his management group at the same time. His 'getting stuck' and swing were the problem. He wouldn't listen to his coaches (read Haney's The Big Miss for details) and was stubborn in his practice sessions.Alistair said:
And he gave himself a massive handicapped himself when he changed clubs for his sponsors.Tim_B said:It looks like it's over for Tiger.
After 3 back operations in 15 months, the last one being unexpected, he has nerve damage in his back.
Watching footage of him glad handing golfers on the range at the tournament he is hosting in the Bahamas this morning he clearly has trouble walking, and he cannot bend over, much less handle even a putter.
He says he spends his time playing video games. He is normally optimistic about rehabbing and getting back into shape, but yesterday he said he had "nothing to look forward to". I've never seen him so down in a presser. There is no time table for his return, his doctor doesn't how long it will be, or IF it will be.
If this is the end, surely it's better to be forced out by injuries than retire because you suck.
Tiger played some of the greatest golf ever seen while in his prime, but Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer ever.
That's fine and dandy when you have a 20 year old body, but when you have had Laser eye surgery twice, 4 knee operations, 3 back operations, among other things, and are approaching 40, it's a different matter. Tiger's swing is brute force, extremely violent, and has so far destroyed his left knee, and damaged his back. Watch Adam Scott for a beautiful elegant swing. Scott's swing will be the same when he's 60. Tiger has had to re-engineer his swing 6 times to my knowledge to cope with physical problems.0 -
Not sure about that - isn't he a British trained dentist?Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.0 -
There really is a fantastic level of whataboutery coming from the SNP benches tonight.0
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Aaaaarrrrggghhh! Not dentistry again!Tim_B said:
Not sure about that - isn't he a British trained dentist?Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.
Assad is a Syrian Trained Doctor who had a couple of years as a junior doctor in London. At St Thomas.0 -
Well he's worked in one of the world's toughest dental fields that means.Tim_B said:
Not sure about that - isn't he a British trained dentist?Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.
No negative trait that isn't a positive, and vice versa.
EDIT - Oh I forgot, I think he's actually an optician.0 -
An NHS ophthalmologist like the lachrymose Dr Mathias.Tim_B said:
Not sure about that - isn't he a British trained dentist?Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.0 -
That argument falls down on the fact that it is a civil war. The Christmas present is already smashed to pieces, and it was without our help. There is no warranty that can replace it. All we can do is try to buy a better product.Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.
Your second paragraph fails on many levels, not the least that the 'cohesion' that you mention was exceptionally fragile. Which is why we have groups killing each other now.0 -
Do grow up.Luckyguy1983 said:
No, because I'm not arguing with that member any more.isam said:
Oh Lord, wouldn't it have just been easier to type "Yo Josias Jessop, fancy a loooong argument?"Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.0 -
Ophthalmologist - eyes, not teethTim_B said:
Not sure about that - isn't he a British trained dentist?Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.
Two years at Western Eye Hospital0 -
Another leadership bid ALREADY??tpfkar said:Tissue_Price said:
Brake intervened on Cameron and said he would back the motion. So it must be someone else - Williams maybe?Pulpstar said:
Brake and Pugh nailed on.FrancisUrquhart said:I'm told two @LibDems MPs "struggling" to support @timfarron in opposing airstrikes #syriavote
Full on rebellion in the Lib Dem party....
To my surprise, I'm hearing Norman Lamb may rebel.0 -
Whatabout the oil price?Casino_Royale said:There really is a fantastic level of whataboutery coming from the SNP benches tonight.
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It's finance, not safety, so might best be directed at Ms Free, but what did you think of Michael Woodford's treatment at Olympus ?MTimT said:
That was Paul O'Neill's great moment at Alcoa, when he sacked Richard Barton, a star Vice President, for breaching the culture of safety by failing to report a minor accident in one of his plants. "Not sharing an opportunity to learn is a cardinal sin" was O'Neill's response.Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.0 -
I frankly can't see why Lib Dems wouldn't be given a free vote. If Labour are getting one - they are meant to be the Liberal DEMOCRATS.MarqueeMark said:
Another leadership bid ALREADY??tpfkar said:Tissue_Price said:
Brake intervened on Cameron and said he would back the motion. So it must be someone else - Williams maybe?Pulpstar said:
Brake and Pugh nailed on.FrancisUrquhart said:I'm told two @LibDems MPs "struggling" to support @timfarron in opposing airstrikes #syriavote
Full on rebellion in the Lib Dem party....
To my surprise, I'm hearing Norman Lamb may rebel.0 -
Could you re-post the link to your article. I would like to read it when I get a bit of a lull.MTimT said:Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
Anyway, thank you for the article.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
PS If you want to email me at enquiries@biosafety.co, I'd be happy to email you a PowerPoint presentation that includes the Alcoa Case Study. The focus is on bio, but you'll see it is readily adaptable.0 -
You may be correct. I will need to think it through - but don't hold your breath for I am slow of thought!MTimT said:
I believe you are confusing 'understand' and 'know'. As an atheist who has lived and worked in the Islamic world a lot, I think I have a fairly good understanding of Islam. As a child whose father was a church warden, I have a fairly good understanding of Christianity - at least Anglicanism. I cannot, however, say I have the faintest knowledge of God.AnneJGP said:
I know very little about Islam, but I do know about belief in God. So I know that those who do not understand belief in God cannot understand Islam.0 -
CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.0 -
Thank you. I will. The Alcoa case is a good one. It chimes with something I say in my training - that we learn best from our mistakes, if we have the courage to admit to them.MTimT said:Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
PS If you want to email me at enquiries@biosafety.co, I'd be happy to email you a PowerPoint presentation that includes the Alcoa Case Study. The focus is on bio, but you'll see it is readily adaptable.
If I had to choose 4 characteristics when hiring I'd go for character (moral character not "he's a laugh in the pub" character), curiosity ("why" is the most lethal word in the English language), courage and common-sense. I can almost feel an article coming on......
0 -
BBC don't see things through British point of view, they see everything through a Guardianista liberal soft left point of view. They don't see that as biased, as they believe that is the "centre".Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.0 -
Well, as the Irishman said, I wouldn't start from here. But we are where we are or we will be when the war finally ends so we will have to work with the world as it will be then. I'm not sure how possible it will be to go back.Luckyguy1983 said:
My point that it is that to suggest that Syria cannot be a cohesive state is like smashing a Christmas present to pieces then claiming the manufacturer's warranty for faulty goods. 'The West' has been arming and funding armed groups within Syria (and from outside it) to wage war upon their government for four years. Could that possibly be why Syria isn't working?Cyclefree said:
I'm not sure what redrawing of boundaries you have in mind. I certainly don't favour expelling Israeli Arabs from Israel, for instance. And like pretty much everyone I think it would be good to get the Palestinian issue resolved in a stable, peaceful and sustainable way in the interests of both the Palestinians and the Israelis.
But I was largely focused on the issues that currently exist in relation to Iraq and Syria and on which Mr Jessop has come up with some tentative proposals.
As a reasonably Westernised Arab state, Syria actually had remarkable success in cohesion of religious groups - where else would a Muslim President pray in a Church at Easter? If we're going to get out the colouring set and redraw the map along ethnic and religious lines, there are far worse and longer standing candidates.0 -
It's been a pleasure to see Salmond back in the Commons where he's in his element, he always seemed out of sorts in the Edinburgh lecture theatre.Casino_Royale said:There really is a fantastic level of whataboutery coming from the SNP benches tonight.
0 -
Surge klaxon...
@rozgab: Just to emphasise: the Tories have overtaken Labour as the second most popular party in Scotland. Actual SCOTLAND. https://t.co/VlPNjlt5VP0 -
''For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.''
The geography is very different for a start. I imagine there are plenty of places in America where the local law enforcement can't make it in fifteen minutes.0 -
Holy guacamole!Scott_P said:Surge klaxon...
@rozgab: Just to emphasise: the Tories have overtaken Labour as the second most popular party in Scotland. Actual SCOTLAND. https://t.co/VlPNjlt5VP0 -
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.0 -
can't help feeling Burnham is voting against to curry favour with Corbyn, not because he believes that is right. Not sure he has any beliefs, to be honest. Anyone think that is unfair?
How Labour must be wishing Harriet Harman had been their leader since Blair stepped down. She did SO much better than Brown, EdM or Corbyn when she was the stand-in.
I know I'm partisan, but I thought Tim Farron made a good speech today. Glad to see others on here acknowledge it.
Personally, torn about airstrikes. In the end it came down to thinking that while airstrikes might not make anything any better, not joining in on them and doing what we can to stop ISIL is likely to make things worse. So on balance, voting for is right thing to do. Just about.0 -
https://twitter.com/weaselzippers/status/672150309414821888
What a surprise!0 -
Wow. Lord Rooker putting the boot into Corbyn in the Lords....
EDIT: "I'm in the terrible position of having been in Westminster since February 1974 and believing that there are members of the cabinet that I would rather have as prime minister than my own party leader - we need to get rid of him."0 -
You need to be able to buy a gun in America...because so many nutters are running around with guns..0
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Networks now reporting that at least two people left the building in a black Yukon SUV.
Police have ordered the reporters back and closed airspace over the area. Choppers now have no tight shots.0 -
Must say that made me LOL.isam said:
Oh Lord, wouldn't it have just been easier to type "Yo Josias Jessop, fancy a loooong argument?"Luckyguy1983 said:
I'm not a military strategist, but 'as long as it takes' seems to mean forever. We left Iraq; it became a weak state that was easy prey for islamists. We left Afghanistan; it's more or less going back to its 'natural' state like an untended garden. Western and/or Russian ground forces can of course obliterate some Nike trainer wearing Call of Duty fans, that isn't in dispute, but leave Syria and the same or God forbid worse will simply come back.Sean_F said:
As long as it takes.Luckyguy1983 said:
And do they then just stay forever?taffys said:''I fear it's becoming ever clearer that the West is weak, and scared, and that ultimately ISIS will win.''
Scared maybe, weak no.
100,000 well armed well supported Western troops would go through ISIS for a short cut. Add 100,000 Russians and its game over.
I think its more 'feeling guilty' than either of the above.
We really didn't know how good Assad was to us.0 -
Good speech from Toby Perkins0
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My favourite bit of the GE. Mark Reckless; my part in his downfall.TheScreamingEagles said:
I did a thread about Mark Reckless.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Who?FrancisUrquhart said:
Mark Reckless lost his seat at the GE don't you know ;-)Scrapheap_as_was said:Has the UKIP block spoken yet in the debate?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/06/22/the-most-important-result-on-may-7th/0 -
The ComRes/Mail poll from just over a week ago is missing from the Wiki list:
Con 40, Lab 29, LD 8, UKIP 11, Grn 3, SNP 4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Which network(s) are you watching?Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.0 -
Whistleblowing: my specialist subject. I could talk about this for hours. But it's late and I have appraisals for my staff to write so I owe it to them to do this properly.JosiasJessop said:
It's finance, not safety, so might best be directed at Ms Free, but what did you think of Michael Woodford's treatment at Olympus ?MTimT said:
That was Paul O'Neill's great moment at Alcoa, when he sacked Richard Barton, a star Vice President, for breaching the culture of safety by failing to report a minor accident in one of his plants. "Not sharing an opportunity to learn is a cardinal sin" was O'Neill's response.Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.
And I'd like to hear Mr TimT's take.
0 -
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
0 -
As MikeK has opined that the shooters in San Bernardino were Muslims, I think we can reasonably conclude the opposite.0
-
Yes it is, and he will no doubt make such comments when he comes on TV.williamglenn said:
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
He's probably to the left of the Beeb.0 -
Brendan O'Hara though, is a buffoon0
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0
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The temptation to sit back and watch Labour self destruct must be almost irresistible to the Tories with Benn's closing still to come but having been at work all day and having skimmed through the thread it seems that we have the bizarre situation that many Labour MPs have put the Government's case better than they have themselves.
This really cannot go on. Either they get rid of the muppet or the sensible sane wing of Labour need to do something else. Really, who wants to be led by that?0 -
williamglenn said:
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
KCAL/ CBS.Tim_B said:
Which network(s) are you watching?Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.
How many people died in the Bataclan theatre.
120,130,140? that's the kind of numbers we heard on November 13.
Answer 89.0 -
DavidL said:
The temptation to sit back and watch Labour self destruct must be almost irresistible to the Tories with Benn's closing still to come but having been at work all day and having skimmed through the thread it seems that we have the bizarre situation that many Labour MPs have put the Government's case better than they have themselves.
This really cannot go on. Either they get rid of the muppet or the sensible sane wing of Labour need to do something else. Really, who wants to be led by that?
"This really cannot go on."
It can, and it will.
New politics.0 -
Looking at coverage, I'm racking my brain to recall where I've ever seen so many police vehicles in the same place.
An irreverent thought occurs - would today lunchtime be a great time to rob a San Bernardino bank?
On an unfortunate note, the conference room where the shooting happened had been rented out to a group for a christmas party.0 -
That's the nature of the beast. To begin with it's chaos and nobody has any facts. Then the police search the building, process the crime scene, and methodically begin interviews and investigation. Over time things start to become clearer. Same thing happened in Paris.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:williamglenn said:
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
KCAL/ CBS.Tim_B said:
Which network(s) are you watching?Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.
How many people died in the Bataclan theatre.
120,130,140? that's the kind of numbers we heard on November 13.
Answer 89.
Try Fox News or CNN. Fox is taking video from KCAL/KCBS and also KABC and KTTZ.0 -
Quite a lot of people, apparently.DavidL said:The temptation to sit back and watch Labour self destruct must be almost irresistible to the Tories with Benn's closing still to come but having been at work all day and having skimmed through the thread it seems that we have the bizarre situation that many Labour MPs have put the Government's case better than they have themselves.
This really cannot go on. Either they get rid of the muppet or the sensible sane wing of Labour need to do something else. Really, who wants to be led by that?0 -
How can you advance the story if it's chaos?Tim_B said:
That's the nature of the beast. To begin with it's chaos and nobody has any facts. Then the police search the building, process the crime scene, and methodically begin interviews and investigation. Over time things start to become clearer. Same thing happened in Paris.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:williamglenn said:
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
KCAL/ CBS.Tim_B said:
Which network(s) are you watching?Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.
How many people died in the Bataclan theatre.
120,130,140? that's the kind of numbers we heard on November 13.
Answer 89.
Try Fox News or CNN. Fox is taking video from KCAL/KCBS and also KABC and KTTZ.
0 -
I'm always careful when waiting on underground platforms. Coming back from football we wait a the south end of the southbound Northern Line platform at Leicester Square. There's always a lot of people walking through to go down to the Piccadilly Line and it's never the most comfortable of places.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic: blooming 'eck:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-349903790 -
Mhhhh, Not sure I can agree with that.AnneJGP said:
I know very little about Islam, but I do know about belief in God. So I know that those who do not understand belief in God cannot understand Islam.rottenborough said:
An important line in this article:AnneJGP said:
Thanks for posting that link. Very interesting indeed.Wanderer said:
I don't know how accurate this article is but it suggests that they are expecting to be almost completely defeated before Jesus appears to save them http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/The_Apocalypse said:
Thanks for your reply. If anything, another military triumph may well add to Putin's popularity.MTimT said:Putin's popularity in Russia is high (80%+ - essentially everyone except the Moscow and St Petersburg middle classes who are outside the kleptocracy) based upon three things, only one of which is sustainable:
1. restoration of law and order
2. good fortune to have presided over a boom in the value of energy exports (currently not so)
3. revival of Soviet - sorry, Russian - pride with the annexation of Crimea.
(snipped)
If they think that then they are in for a shock.AnneJGP said:
No, they are not idiots.The_Apocalypse said:
Don't they worship Putin in Russia as if he's some-kind of demi-god? Though Russia has never struck me as a massively democratic place under Putin.FrancisUrquhart said:
snipThe_Apocalypse said:
What a bunch of idiots. They want to wage war against Russia as well? These people really are cruising for a bruising, as my grandma would say.AlastairMeeks said:@JesseRodriguez ·
NBC News: ISIS releases video showing beheading of alleged Russian spy
@calmsnbc · 10m10 minutes ago
Cal Perry Retweeted Jesse Rodriguez
Executioner in video is speaking Russian ... with accent - message clearly directed at #Moscow.
ISIS are idiots if they believe they can win a battle vs an enemy which has Russia, the rest of Europe, China and the US on the same side.
My understanding of the Islamic idea of armageddon is nil, but if it bears any relationship to the biblical description, they are expecting God to weigh in on their side.
So not idiots, just believers.
"The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic."
0 -
Give our best to LuckyguyMikeSmithson said:I've been invited to a function next week at the Russian Embassy. Should I go?
0 -
No surprise you leap before waiting for all the facts.MikeK said:https://twitter.com/weaselzippers/status/672150309414821888
What a surprise!
I say that as you know as no friend of radical Islam.0 -
Local press, local TV have pretty good relations with the fuzz. They are pretty good at getting info.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
How can you advance the story if it's chaos?Tim_B said:
That's the nature of the beast. To begin with it's chaos and nobody has any facts. Then the police search the building, process the crime scene, and methodically begin interviews and investigation. Over time things start to become clearer. Same thing happened in Paris.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:williamglenn said:
To be fair that also seems to be Obama's view.Tim_B said:One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
KCAL/ CBS.Tim_B said:
Which network(s) are you watching?Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
There is nothing to advance. The interviews just relate the same story again and again.Tim_B said:CNN and Fox News are showing witness interviews and video from KABC and KTTZ with a bit of CBS local news.
BBC World News is disgraceful - all they are doing is going on and on about gun control and not advancing the story.
One of the problems I have with BBC coverage of the USA is that they persist in looking at things through a British point of view, which doesn't help with things like gun control. They are going down the "How many of these does it take?" road.
For good or ill, there is no appetite in Congress to change things, which may not be totally disconnected from lobbying efforts by the NRA among others.
The local yokel news people just add to the confusion, speaking to dazed and confused relatives and bystanders.
How many people died in the Bataclan theatre.
120,130,140? that's the kind of numbers we heard on November 13.
Answer 89.
Try Fox News or CNN. Fox is taking video from KCAL/KCBS and also KABC and KTTZ.
If you drive a black SUV in California you're going to be stopped. Can you imagine how many there are? The BOLO is about to become state wide.
News conference starting now. These cops are built like brick shithouses -even the women.
14 dead, 14 injured - preliminary numbers.0 -
I was unaware of Mr Woodford until this post, but now I'd like to shake his hand.Cyclefree said:
Whistleblowing: my specialist subject. I could talk about this for hours. But it's late and I have appraisals for my staff to write so I owe it to them to do this properly.JosiasJessop said:
It's finance, not safety, so might best be directed at Ms Free, but what did you think of Michael Woodford's treatment at Olympus ?MTimT said:
That was Paul O'Neill's great moment at Alcoa, when he sacked Richard Barton, a star Vice President, for breaching the culture of safety by failing to report a minor accident in one of his plants. "Not sharing an opportunity to learn is a cardinal sin" was O'Neill's response.Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.
And I'd like to hear Mr TimT's take.
I try to be involved at a much earlier stage than whistleblowers. If a whistleblower is required, then my approach has already failed.
The culture of safety and excellence should preclude any need for whistleblowers as it is built around no-blame reporting of failure or near miss (O'Neill's opportunities to learn), continual risk assessment, close measurement and scrutiny of performance, analysis of variance from expectations to assess whether the variance is significant and hence necessitates change, unfettered two-way communications, peer and personal responsibility which naturally evolves into a group responsibility, and from this continual improvement. Thus, if such a system is in place, a Barings should never happen.
This system is based upon people going to work to do the right thing, rather than to cheat or steal. But, because of the measurement, scrutiny, and peer/group accountability aspects, it would tend to uncover criminal aspects sooner rather than later.0 -
Scott_P said:
Surge klaxon...
@rozgab: Just to emphasise: the Tories have overtaken Labour as the second most popular party in Scotland. Actual SCOTLAND. https://t.co/VlPNjlt5VP
Didn't @election_data announce his departure from Labour yesterday or the day before?0 -
http://www.nature.com/news/biological-research-rethink-biosafety-1.18747foxinsoxuk said:
Could you re-post the link to your article. I would like to read it when I get a bit of a lull.MTimT said:Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
Anyway, thank you for the article.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
PS If you want to email me at enquiries@biosafety.co, I'd be happy to email you a PowerPoint presentation that includes the Alcoa Case Study. The focus is on bio, but you'll see it is readily adaptable.0 -
Great. Look forward to getting the email.Cyclefree said:
Thank you. I will. The Alcoa case is a good one. It chimes with something I say in my training - that we learn best from our mistakes, if we have the courage to admit to them.MTimT said:Cyclefree said:
Quite so. Despite all the fine words and actions at the moment, the acid test for any bank will be when a high revenue earner misbehaves. Will he (and it usually is a "he") be sacked? Banks have flunked that test in the past.MTimT said:
Thanks for the link. I'll print it up and read.Cyclefree said:MTimT said:
The essence of risk analysis, excellent communications, continual improvement and peer/personal accountability transcends industries - it is a meta model applicable in any industry where the costs of failure are high.Cyclefree said:Completely O/T for @MTimT:
The nuclear industry is adopting it pretty widely as an approach, with a new organization in Vienna - WINS - leading the charge. https://www.wins.org/index.php?article_id=52
Also the IAEA, through its International Nuclear Safety Group INSAG, has published on this.
By happenstance I also found an article in Nature on banking - http://www.nature.com/news/banking-culture-primes-people-to-cheat-1.16380. This does not surprise me - there are plenty of examples of good people behaving badly if put in the wrong environment. Social pressure, social expectations and social taboos (culture, if you will) are absolutely key.
Plus - and this is probably more applicable to banking than to your industry - the concepts of shame and guilt are bloody useful. If people felt a bit more guilt and a bit more ashamed about bloody awful behaviour instead of thinking it's something to be praised or no big deal we might – just might – have a bit less of it about.
Ultimately, culture ends up being what you reward, either monetarily, with praise, or with promotions.
If you say you want something, but reward something else, you'll always get something else, regardless of how much your people want to do good or do the right thing.
PS If you want to email me at enquiries@biosafety.co, I'd be happy to email you a PowerPoint presentation that includes the Alcoa Case Study. The focus is on bio, but you'll see it is readily adaptable.
If I had to choose 4 characteristics when hiring I'd go for character (moral character not "he's a laugh in the pub" character), curiosity ("why" is the most lethal word in the English language), courage and common-sense. I can almost feel an article coming on......0
