politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson writes: Ed Miliband: my part in his downfall
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson writes: Ed Miliband: my part in his downfall
A year ago today I received an unsolicited e-mail from an extremely senior Conservative election strategist, asking if I ever came to London as he’d be interested in picking my brains. Unsurprisingly, I said ‘Yes’.
Comments
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What a fantastic article, thanks David and Mike.
It must have been great to see the campaign from the inside, there was clearly a massive amount of work done behind the scenes that most of us will never know about, to hear this story from a year ago shows that was indeed the case.
David, of course you were responsible for the Conservative win, the Salmond and Ed poster worked worked perfectly as it gave to most voters an accurate picture of how the dynamic between the two leaders might work - although I am sure the actual poster used was this one: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/9/1425900594701/2e3f4b0f-f8db-4aae-8e61-42affc16f61a-bestSizeAvailable.jpeg
Hope you wife is getting better after her bad accident.0 -
Wishing your wife all the best. Let's hope you'll be tapped for the 2020 election.
PB Tory Brain Trust!0 -
I assume David that this was Lynton.0
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Spike Milligan reference?0
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.0 -
Nice piece Mr Herdson, it must have been a fascinating time for you, notwithstanding your wife's accident.
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Excellent article.0
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What I found strange was how relaxed Labour were about Scotland. They assumed that it didn't really matter as the SNP would always back Labour over the Tories. As long as the SNP is dominant in Scotland the people of England and Wales will think twice about voting Labour, irrespective of who their leader is.0
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Douglas Alexander wasn't (rightly, as it turned out). However, he was consistently overruled in his attempts to attack the SNP by Ed Miliband, who thought that it would just be pandering to English nationalism (something he had an instinctive left-wing distrust of). I wonder if the fact that Ed Miliband was from London, had lived either there or in Oxford or abroad all his life, and knew very little about Scotland (or for the matter of that, most of England) had a bearing on that. The way voters see England in Islington and the way they see it in say, Lincoln or Telford, or Gloucester - all marginal seats that Labour lost - is very different. They see it as not something to shout about, perhaps, but certainly not something to be ashamed of (the Gillian Duffy effect).tlg86 said:What I found strange was how relaxed Labour were about Scotland. They assumed that it didn't really matter as the SNP would always back Labour over the Tories. As long as the SNP is dominant in Scotland the people of England and Wales will think twice about voting Labour, irrespective of who their leader is.
There's some more information in this article about half-way down:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/03/undoing-of-ed-miliband-and-how-labour-lost-election
but you have to sort of tease it out. Incidentally, five months on and the quality of that article is still superb. I hope Wintour writes a book about Ed Miliband's time as leader, because it would be well worth reading.0 -
I'm sure that the thousands of
Cameron and other Tories talked of an abuse of democracy earlier in the week - THIS is an abuse of democracyRobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.0 -
Three names Ed won't be choosing for his next son. Baconsandwich Edstone and David0
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or MillyRoger said:Three names Ed won't be choosing for his next son. Baconsandwich Edstone and David
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Or LucyTheKrakenAwakes said:
or MillyRoger said:Three names Ed won't be choosing for his next son. Baconsandwich Edstone and David
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.RobD said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
What is it about Tories.....I heard on HIGNFY yesterday that Andrew Lloyd Webber came back from New York to vote in the Lords in support of the government taking away tax credits from the poor. One of the very few times he's voted in the Lords
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That is exactly why the country is broke - people always say the sums are small - but over time it all really adds up.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.0 -
Ydoethur
"PS - is the 'David' referring to Cameron, Miliband or both? "
Miliband and Herdson0 -
Ydoethur
David Herdson writes: "Ed Miliband: my part in his downfall"
The follow up to the cult classic
"Can Heironymus Merkin Ever Forget Mercy Humppe and Find True Happiness?0 -
Because Davies is right in this case.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
It is an unecessary bit of political grandstanding by Cooper imo.
The Bill is unnecessary due to local schemes existing widely, it is badly drafted, it draws a test for "carer" which is massively open to abuse, it attempts to apply far too widely eg to mandate free parking at Private Hospitals, it encourages fit people to drive to hospital when they don't need to do so, and it imposes extra bureaucracy (=cost) on every hospital in the country.
There may be a suitable Bill out there somewhere, but this is not it.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2015-2016/0010/15010.pdf
The Healthcare Travel Costs Scheme already allows reasonable costs to be reclaimed for referrals from Primary Practioners, including for carers. And it seems that most - if not all - hospitals already offer concessionary schemes.
When my parent was in Nottingham City for 2 months about 6 years ago we were entitled to a free parking pass.
Julie Cooper's interesting claim that it was costing her £40 a week to visit her mother on a long term basis 18 months ago may be somewhat undermined by the fact that all the main hospitals in Burnley / Blackburn run a scheme which allows you to cap weekly parking charges to £10.50. For some reason she doesn't seem to have named the hospital from this anecdote.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parking
Cooper spoke about her experience of caring for her own mother when she was in hospital. “Each night when I left tired and distressed I queued up to pay for my parking,” said Cooper.
“At that time it was costing me £40 a week. On one of those days driving out of the car park, it occurred to me that I was lucky because I could afford to pay this charge and I went on to reflect on the matter and I thought what about those people who can’t afford to pay?”
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Won the election, but lost the union.
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Great to see you were on CCHQ's radar - hope Mrs Herdson is now fine and well.0
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"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..0
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Speaking of SLAB http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
The thing is, you see, that “Take a fresh look” has been the unofficial theme of every meeting of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party since, oh, at least 1997. When you are reduced to pinching lines from the Scottish Tories you are probably in a position similar to the lost traveller seeking directions to Limerick who was told “Well, I wouldn’t start from here”.
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richardDodd said:
"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..
Sadly not meaningless.
As David points out, Tory strategy has been to drive a wedge between Scotland and England. It suits their party goals, but comes with a huge price tag.
Nothing to be proud about.0 -
Somewhat O/T, but I saw this photograph and it made me reflect on the hostages to fortune some politicians can give:
http://www.capx.co/how-the-snp-let-down-the-poorest-students/
I was reminded of the famous caption competition about a photograph of the Dean of Westminster strategically placed in his abbey. The winner was: 'The great organ of Westminster Abbey, with a large musical instrument'.0 -
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parkingMattW said:
Because Davies is right in this case.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
It is an unecessary bit of political grandstanding by Cooper imo.
The Bill is unnecessary due to local schemes existing widely, it is badly drafted, it draws a test for "carer" which is massively open to abuse, it attempts to apply far too widely eg to mandate free parking at Private Hospitals, it encourages fit people to drive to hospital when they don't need to do so, and it imposes extra bureaucracy (=cost) on every hospital in the country.
There may be a suitable Bill out there somewhere, but this is not it.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2015-2016/0010/15010.pdf
The Healthcare Travel Costs Scheme already allows reasonable costs to be reclaimed for referrals from Primary Practioners, including for carers. And it seems that most - if not all - hospitals already offer concessionary schemes.
When my parent was in Nottingham City for 2 months about 6 years ago we were entitled to a free parking pass.
Julie Cooper's interesting claim that it was costing her £40 a week to visit her mother on a long term basis 18 months ago may be somewhat undermined by the fact that all the main hospitals in Burnley / Blackburn run a scheme which allows you to cap weekly parking charges to £10.50. For some reason she doesn't seem to have named the hospital from this anecdote.
Cooper spoke about her experience of caring for her own mother when she was in hospital. “Each night when I left tired and distressed I queued up to pay for my parking,” said Cooper.
“At that time it was costing me £40 a week. On one of those days driving out of the car park, it occurred to me that I was lucky because I could afford to pay this charge and I went on to reflect on the matter and I thought what about those people who can’t afford to pay?”
When my daughter was severely ill in Basildon hospital her husband was given a free pass for the car park. That was Jan/Feb 2014.
Earlier this year we had a long wait in A&E in another Essex hospital and were told by the A&E staff thatas it was Sunday there would be no problem. We’d paid for 3 hours and were there over 6.. And no, there wasn’t a problem.0 -
The Union is still intact, although Labour are about to test their electoral appeal to destruction in Scotland...Jonathan said:Won the election, but lost the union.
@TelePolitics: Labour plan to tax Scottish middle class more than the English https://t.co/KVUtV0sFBl0 -
Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.0 -
0_o
@meadwaj
Decent sized crowd down at the Brixton #Thatcher death celebration. Sound system, much carousing.
@meadwaj
Packed out at the #TowerHamlets meeting to defend democracy. 500 here, maybe, and furious about what has happened to Lutfur Rahman.ydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.0 -
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/0 -
Because it is the nasty partyRobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.0 -
Off-topic:
My sort of person, and my sort of challenge:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34440109
Ann acquaintance of mine has not only walked the coast of Britain over twenty years, he's done a full mountain list (Marilyns, I think), and is most of the way through the challenge of drinking a pint of Guinness in every European capital.0 -
Dear heaven.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
That's absolutely terrifying if accurate (and usually even the sketchwriters at the Spectator are pretty switched on, so I'm assuming it is).
This paragraph is particularly unbelievable:The thing is, you see, that “Take a fresh look” has been the unofficial theme of every meeting of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party since, oh, at least 1997. When you are reduced to pinching lines from the Scottish Tories you are probably in a position similar to the lost traveller seeking directions to Limerick who was told “Well, I wouldn’t start from here”.
But then, it is Scottish Labour we're talking about - it gave us Gordon Brown, who saw nothing wrong in borrowing slogans from other parties.
I think their only chance of staying relevant is a UDI from London and running themselves in a loose alliance with Labour, like the SDLP, but making their own policy and strategy decisions.0 -
SNP reads the Spectator. Says it all.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
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I think you should leave the funnies to JackWRoger said:Ydoethur
"PS - is the 'David' referring to Cameron, Miliband or both? "
Miliband and Herdson0 -
Further very funny quote from that Spectator sketch:
Dugdale can only demonstrate her independence by pointing out that Corbyn is wrong (it helps that he is wrong). Which, viewed from his perspective, seems something close to a problem: because if Corbyn is wrong in Scotland doesn’t there then exist the possibility he might be wrong in England too?
It's funny because it's true...
But then Labour, at present, is floundering all over the place. If a camel is a horse designed by a committee Labour is a committee-designed camel pretending to be a wildebeest. No good can come from this.0 -
I'm not a Tory. Does that make me stupid, vicious, or both?0
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The brother of a friend of mine, who was a Tory, only ever read the Guardian. He said it helped to understand what the enemy was thinking.Jonathan said:
SNP reads the Spectator. Says it all.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
Similarly, Jeremy Corbyn should restrict his morning reading to the Daily Mail. He won't of course, but it would help him a lot in sorting out the small image problem he has. Cameron, meanwhile, should take the Mirror. Osborne would benefit from a book on economics, but that's another story...0 -
The wedge was/is between the SNP and the U.K. Electorate, who didn't particularly fancy the idea of being held to ransom by a group of people who's aim in life is to break up their country!Jonathan said:richardDodd said:"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..
Sadly not meaningless.
As David points out, Tory strategy has been to drive a wedge between Scotland and England. It suits their party goals, but comes with a huge price tag.
Nothing to be proud about.0 -
But then, it is Scottish Labour we're talking about - it gave us Gordon Brown, who saw nothing wrong in borrowing slogans from other parties.ydoethur said:
Dear heaven.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
That's absolutely terrifying if accurate (and usually even the sketchwriters at the Spectator are pretty switched on, so I'm assuming it is).
This paragraph is particularly unbelievable:The thing is, you see, that “Take a fresh look” has been the unofficial theme of every meeting of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party since, oh, at least 1997. When you are reduced to pinching lines from the Scottish Tories you are probably in a position similar to the lost traveller seeking directions to Limerick who was told “Well, I wouldn’t start from here”.
I think their only chance of staying relevant is a UDI from London and running themselves in a loose alliance with Labour, like the SDLP, but making their own policy and strategy decisions.
They are in knots over that at present given "Scottish Labour " does not exist and they are really a regional office of the UK party pretending to be a real party. They have to follow UK position on all reserved powers which means almost 100%. Given they have few members and no money and so depend entirely on UK party for funding I doubt we will see any attempt to become a real party. Just like the Conservatives they will remain sucking of the parent's teat. It would be real justice if even the useless Scottish Tories beat them for second, what a laugh that would be.
We will see them vote against Trident on Sunday only to be slapped down by UK party.0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Herdson, hope your wife's made a full recovery.
Rugby's on at 4pm today. At least it won't clash with F1, or Homeland.
Pre-qualifying will be up this afternoon/evening. P3 finishes at 5pm, and qualifying's at 7pm.0 -
It was Labour that signed the Claim of Right saying that the Tories had no right to govern in Scotland when they won a UK-wide majority, so for Labour to attack on this basis is the height of hypocrisy. All of the posts I have seen by you on this forum have been digs at the Tories that you struggle to substantiate. The lack of positive arguments or credible defences for Labour policies shows what a bad place you are in.Jonathan said:richardDodd said:"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..
Sadly not meaningless.
As David points out, Tory strategy has been to drive a wedge between Scotland and England. It suits their party goals, but comes with a huge price tag.
Nothing to be proud about.0 -
It's funny because it's true...ydoethur said:Further very funny quote from that Spectator sketch:
Dugdale can only demonstrate her independence by pointing out that Corbyn is wrong (it helps that he is wrong). Which, viewed from his perspective, seems something close to a problem: because if Corbyn is wrong in Scotland doesn’t there then exist the possibility he might be wrong in England too?
But then Labour, at present, is floundering all over the place. If a camel is a horse designed by a committee Labour is a committee-designed camel pretending to be a wildebeest. No good can come from this.
It really is an excellent article by massie. He annoys me a lot of the time but comes out with great items like this at times, I can almost forgive him being a unionist.0 -
*Raises eyebrows* Now that really could be a difficult moment for Labour. Suppose, for the sake of argument, Scottish Labour vote for UND, and London Labour point out that overall Labour policy is to keep it. What then does Corbyn do? He's more firmly in favour of UND than any other elected politician, and has been for decades. Does he implement the decision to admonish and overrule SLAB, citing party democracy? Or does he follow his heart and tell the wider party they're wrong?malcolmg said:
We will see them vote against Trident on Sunday only to be slapped down by UK party.
This could potentially be a very interesting problem, and could split Labour further. I hadn't realised it was looming.0 -
Doddy
"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..'
I think that's true. It's the romanticism of the struggle. Who could resist for example "The Great Clunking Fist"0 -
The pension system couldn'tRoger said:Doddy
"Won the election,lost the Union".. Lefties just love slogans..the more meaningless..the more they love them..'
I think that's true. It's the romanticism of the struggle. Who could resist for example "The Great Clunking Fist"0 -
They voted on what points would be debated and this came out top. Could indeed be interesting. More info on the topic.ydoethur said:
*Raises eyebrows* Now that really could be a difficult moment for Labour. Suppose, for the sake of argument, Scottish Labour vote for UND, and London Labour point out that overall Labour policy is to keep it. What then does Corbyn do? He's more firmly in favour of UND than any other elected politician, and has been for decades. Does he implement the decision to admonish and overrule SLAB, citing party democracy? Or does he follow his heart and tell the wider party they're wrong?malcolmg said:
We will see them vote against Trident on Sunday only to be slapped down by UK party.
This could potentially be a very interesting problem, and could split Labour further. I hadn't realised it was looming.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/lets-clear-something-up/0 -
They are in knots over that at present given "Scottish Labour " does not exist and they are really a regional office of the UK party pretending to be a real party. They have to follow UK position on all reserved powers which means almost 100%. Given they have few members and no money and so depend entirely on UK party for funding I doubt we will see any attempt to become a real party. Just like the Conservatives they will remain sucking of the parent's teat. It would be real justice if even the useless Scottish Tories beat them for second, what a laugh that would be.malcolmg said:
But then, it is Scottish Labour we're talking about - it gave us Gordon Brown, who saw nothing wrong in borrowing slogans from other parties.ydoethur said:
Dear heaven.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
That's absolutely terrifying if accurate (and usually even the sketchwriters at the Spectator are pretty switched on, so I'm assuming it is).
This paragraph is particularly unbelievable:The thing is, you see, that “Take a fresh look” has been the unofficial theme of every meeting of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party since, oh, at least 1997. When you are reduced to pinching lines from the Scottish Tories you are probably in a position similar to the lost traveller seeking directions to Limerick who was told “Well, I wouldn’t start from here”.
I think their only chance of staying relevant is a UDI from London and running themselves in a loose alliance with Labour, like the SDLP, but making their own policy and strategy decisions.
We will see them vote against Trident on Sunday only to be slapped down by UK party.
Why would they be slapped down? The UK party leader opposes Trident.0 -
O/T re tax credits.. never misunderstand the anger felt in some quarters, I have a disabled client who has no children, is a Labour supporter but whose venom at the "Tory cut" was close to apoplectic.0
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Completely OT. I met an 85 year old Austrian woman yesterday who told me something interesting. In 1943 there was a demo in Berlin by the wives of Jewish husbands against their imminent deportation and such was the potential embarrassment that the policy was abandoned and they were left in peace0
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Even if this was true rather than just petty lashing out - is a union where England is told what to do by Alex Salmond controlling Ed worth saving?Jonathan said:Won the election, but lost the union.
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Can't resist. Sorry.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
My sort of person, and my sort of challenge:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34440109
Ann acquaintance of mine has not only walked the coast of Britain over twenty years, he's done a full mountain list (Marilyns, I think), and is most of the way through the challenge of drinking a pint of Guinness in every European capital.
How many Marilyn mountains are there? Two?0 -
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parkingMattW said:
Julie Cooper's interesting claim that it was costing her £40 a week to visit her mother on a long term basis 18 months ago may be somewhat undermined by the fact that all the main hospitals in Burnley / Blackburn run a scheme which allows you to cap weekly parking charges to £10.50. For some reason she doesn't seem to have named the hospital from this anecdote.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
Cooper spoke about her experience of caring for her own mother when she was in hospital. “Each night when I left tired and distressed I queued up to pay for my parking,” said Cooper.
“At that time it was costing me £40 a week. On one of those days driving out of the car park, it occurred to me that I was lucky because I could afford to pay this charge and I went on to reflect on the matter and I thought what about those people who can’t afford to pay?”
From, unfortunately, personal experience, trying to find out what you are entitled to as a carer when the person you are looking after goes into hospital is, probably not intentionally, very difficult. You are not only on an emotional roller coaster, while the staff, probably from trying to protect their own sanity, try not to be emotionally involved.
Information on benefits is available, but trying to find it is as difficult as it seems to be in a locked drawer in a rusting cabinet, in the basement of a disused building about to be demolished.
It was only after the passing of my father that I found out some of the benefits that he, and myself, should have had available. Too late.0 -
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parkingMattW said:
Julie Cooper's interesting claim that it was costing her £40 a week to visit her mother on a long term basis 18 months ago may be somewhat undermined by the fact that all the main hospitals in Burnley / Blackburn run a scheme which allows you to cap weekly parking charges to £10.50. For some reason she doesn't seem to have named the hospital from this anecdote.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
Cooper spoke about her experience of caring for her own mother when she was in hospital. “Each night when I left tired and distressed I queued up to pay for my parking,” said Cooper.
“At that time it was costing me £40 a week. On one of those days driving out of the car park, it occurred to me that I was lucky because I could afford to pay this charge and I went on to reflect on the matter and I thought what about those people who can’t afford to pay?”
From, unfortunately, personal experience, trying to find out what you are entitled to as a carer when the person you are looking after goes into hospital is, probably not intentionally, very difficult. You are not only on an emotional roller coaster, while the staff, probably from trying to protect their own sanity, try not to be emotionally involved.
Information on benefits is available, but trying to find it is as difficult as it seems to be in a locked drawer in a rusting cabinet, in the basement of a disused building about to be demolished.
It was only after the passing of my father that I found out some of the benefits that he, and myself, should have had available. Too late.0 -
Mr. JEO, if it's Corbyn behind this, then he's plain stupid.
If Scottish Labour say Yes to Trident, he's been defeated twice.
If Scottish Labour say No to Trident, then Scottish and UK Labour disagree over the not inconsequential matter of nuclear disarmament.
What was it Thatcher said? Where there is discord, may we bring harmony? Corbyn's fostering discord in his own party.0 -
Quite correct - that was one that the SS decided not to enforce precisely for that reason. One of the beneficiaries was the famous diarist Viktor Klemperer, who was still alive, at liberty and forced to wear a yellow star as late as the bombing of Dresden in 1945.* His diaries of life as a Jew under the Nazis remain compelling reading, although they are less well-known than those of Anne Frank.Roger said:Completely OT. I met an 85 year old Austrian woman yesterday who told me something interesting. In 1943 there was a demo in Berlin by the wives of Jewish husbands against their imminent deportation and such was the potential embarrassment that the policy was abandoned and they were left in peace
*At that time he took off his yellow star and went underground for the last few months of the war. He lived until the 1960s and after his first wife - the one whose protests had saved his life - died, married one of his students, at that time in her twenties.0 -
Roger that is about as subtle a dig as a subtle dig that paints itself purple and dances on a harpsichord singing 'subtle digs are here again'Roger said:Completely OT. I met an 85 year old Austrian woman yesterday who told me something interesting. In 1943 there was a demo in Berlin by the wives of Jewish husbands against their imminent deportation and such was the potential embarrassment that the policy was abandoned and they were left in peace
0 -
Why would they be slapped down? The UK party leader opposes Trident.JEO said:
They are in knots over that at present given "Scottish Labour " does not exist and they are really a regional office of the UK party pretending to be a real party. They have to follow UK position on all reserved powers which means almost 100%. Given they have few members and no money and so depend entirely on UK party for funding I doubt we will see any attempt to become a real party. Just like the Conservatives they will remain sucking of the parent's teat. It would be real justice if even the useless Scottish Tories beat them for second, what a laugh that would be.malcolmg said:
But then, it is Scottish Labour we're talking about - it gave us Gordon Brown, who saw nothing wrong in borrowing slogans from other parties.ydoethur said:
Dear heaven.malcolmg said:
Labour are done forydoethur said:Alarming rumours that Corbyn intends to appoint the legend that is Karie Murphy as a political adviser:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-two-faces-of-corbynism-and-why-labour-is-hiring-controversial-advisers/
Even more alarmingly, she is viewed as a 'realist'. What peculiar fantasies are the others indulging in to make her, of all people, seem like a realist? They must at the very least involve pigs in some capacity or other (Ashcroft showed what is possible).
It's as though he wants an SNP/Liberal Democrat alliance to form the official opposition.
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
That's absolutely terrifying if accurate (and usually even the sketchwriters at the Spectator are pretty switched on, so I'm assuming it is).
This paragraph is particularly unbelievable:The thing is, you see, that “Take a fresh look” has been the unofficial theme of every meeting of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party since, oh, at least 1997. When you are reduced to pinching lines from the Scottish Tories you are probably in a position similar to the lost traveller seeking directions to Limerick who was told “Well, I wouldn’t start from here”.
I think their only chance of staying relevant is a UDI from London and running themselves in a loose alliance with Labour, like the SDLP, but making their own policy and strategy decisions.
We will see them vote against Trident on Sunday only to be slapped down by UK party.
So you think if UK Labour vote for Trident and the regional Scottish party vote NO , that Corbyn will make UK policy to NOT renew trident. Interesting thought.0 -
Thatcher asked God to bring harmony because she had no intention whatsoever of doing so.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JEO, if it's Corbyn behind this, then he's plain stupid.
If Scottish Labour say Yes to Trident, he's been defeated twice.
If Scottish Labour say No to Trident, then Scottish and UK Labour disagree over the not inconsequential matter of nuclear disarmament.
What was it Thatcher said? Where there is discord, may we bring harmony? Corbyn's fostering discord in his own party.
0 -
Isam
"Roger that is about as subtle a dig as a subtle dig that paints itself purple and dances on a harpsichord singing 'subtle digs are here again' "
I don't know what you mean?0 -
John Woodcock's reaction to such a scenario would be interesting, to say the least. In fact, the resulting explosion might well resemble a thermonuclear detonation from distance.malcolmg said:
So you think if UK Labour vote for Trident and the regional Scottish party vote NO , that Corbyn will make UK policy to NOT renew trident. Interesting thought.JEO said:
Why would they be slapped down? The UK party leader opposes Trident.
EDIT - Innocent Abroad, did anyone get around to telling Thatcher that she wasn't God though?
0 -
Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-346871390 -
Ydoethur
*At that time he took off his yellow star and went underground for the last few months of the war. He lived until the 1960s and after his first wife - the one whose protests had saved his life - died, married one of his students, at that time in her twenties.
Thanks for that. I'll read up about it today. I wonder whether Victor Klemperer and Otto were related?0 -
Isam
"Seemed to be an allegory of this govt and tax credits "
Too clever for me. I think you're confusing me with Jesus0 -
I'm afraid I don't know. He was a very interesting man in his own right though. Well worth reading more about.Roger said:Ydoethur
*At that time he took off his yellow star and went underground for the last few months of the war. He lived until the 1960s and after his first wife - the one whose protests had saved his life - died, married one of his students, at that time in her twenties.
Thanks for that. I'll read up about it today. I wonder whether Victor Klemperer and Otto were related?0 -
From, unfortunately, personal experience, trying to find out what you are entitled to as a carer when the person you are looking after goes into hospital is, probably not intentionally, very difficult. You are not only on an emotional roller coaster, while the staff, probably from trying to protect their own sanity, try not to be emotionally involved.OchEye said:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/tory-mps-filibuster-blocks-bill-to-give-carers-free-hospital-parkingMattW said:
Julie Cooper's interesting claim that it was costing her £40 a week to visit her mother on a long term basis 18 months ago may be somewhat undermined by the fact that all the main hospitals in Burnley / Blackburn run a scheme which allows you to cap weekly parking charges to £10.50. For some reason she doesn't seem to have named the hospital from this anecdote.RobD said:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
Cooper spoke about her experience of caring for her own mother when she was in hospital. “Each night when I left tired and distressed I queued up to pay for my parking,” said Cooper.
“At that time it was costing me £40 a week. On one of those days driving out of the car park, it occurred to me that I was lucky because I could afford to pay this charge and I went on to reflect on the matter and I thought what about those people who can’t afford to pay?”
Information on benefits is available, but trying to find it is as difficult as it seems to be in a locked drawer in a rusting cabinet, in the basement of a disused building about to be demolished.
It was only after the passing of my father that I found out some of the benefits that he, and myself, should have had available. Too late.
I agree with that, and I think it argues for local schemes that we have now, rather than a regime mandated nationally.
In our case we just asked the Doctor in the hospital, who pointed us to the office in the hospital we needed to visit for a pass.
That was far less stressful than getting tangled up in more categories of the benefits system.0 -
Germany trying to slow the flow of migrants:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-346830560 -
Twin Peaks.MattW said:
Can't resist. Sorry.JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
My sort of person, and my sort of challenge:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34440109
Ann acquaintance of mine has not only walked the coast of Britain over twenty years, he's done a full mountain list (Marilyns, I think), and is most of the way through the challenge of drinking a pint of Guinness in every European capital.
How many Marilyn mountains are there? Two?
There are actually 2,009 Marilyns:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_(geography)
But I've checked, and it's actually the Nuttall's he's done:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_mountains_and_hills_in_the_British_Isles#Nuttalls
Maybe one day I'll get to do some walking again...
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RobD said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mp-philip-davies-speaks-for-90-minutes-to-stop-carers-getting-free-hospital-parking-a6715641.html
A shame. Why filibuster this bill? The cost of it is probably a rounding error.
He's got form earlier in his parliamentary career, filibustering legislation preventing landlords evicting tenants on spurious grounds.
If he cares so much about the fact that the Labour bods are drawing up poor legislation as @Mattw points out, then perhaps he should take the time (He is clearly a fan of back bench debates) to draft some decent legislation around areas of the law that he clearly is so passionate about !
“I intend to start off as I mean to go on – by being brief.”
He's failed at that one for sure.0 -
I don't see how five border points across just a few hundred miles of border will do anything to slow the flow, given the migrants are prepared to circumvent entire countries. I think they're just trying to properly record the numbers better. It's chaos there at the moment, apparently 8,000 arrived on just Thursday night.Morris_Dancer said:Germany trying to slow the flow of migrants:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34683056
http://www.dw.com/en/chaos-continues-at-german-austrian-border-as-thousands-of-refugees-arrive-overnight/a-18815620
0 -
Also, the fact that thousands are crossing Austria shows that it's not wealth levels between northern and southern Europe that is driving this, but openness. Austria is as rich as Germany.0
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Mr. JEO, well, quite.
Canute knew trying to stem the tide was proof of man's weakness against God.
Just checking a few things, and the Mexico race looks like it could be quite intriguing. Just a shame it's not on the BBC...
Edited extra bit: Mr. JEO, might also be about communities [overused term, but actually fits here]. If you're a Syrian and know X hundred thousand Syrians are in Germany, you probably want to join them rather than be somewhere else and be the only individual/family in that area.0 -
Bravo David. I tip my hat sir, and wish you and your wife all the best.0
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Is this the one the Russians were claiming an hour ago hadn't crashed, or another one?ydoethur said:Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-346871390 -
More comment on labour...http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2015/10/scottish-labours-predicament/
0 -
Perhaps, but of course the biggest Middle Eastern population in the EU is right here in the UK, which is what worries me. Plus, Germany is similar to the Netherlands in that it has a very clear idea of what its national norms are and people are expected to fit in. That could prove a problem for us:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JEO, well, quite.
Canute knew trying to stem the tide was proof of man's weakness against God.
Just checking a few things, and the Mexico race looks like it could be quite intriguing. Just a shame it's not on the BBC...
Edited extra bit: Mr. JEO, might also be about communities [overused term, but actually fits here]. If you're a Syrian and know X hundred thousand Syrians are in Germany, you probably want to join them rather than be somewhere else and be the only individual/family in that area.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/1479533/Frustrated-Somalis-flee-Holland-for-the-freedom-of-Britain.html
But it began earlier. Adan Igeh Hussein, of the Somali European Forum, said Somalis felt bullied by a "forced assimilation" policy, which orders them to live apart in scattered housing.
Related Articles
"It's not that the British are more friendly than the Dutch, it is just that they let us stay as we are. Somalis can integrate without losing their cultural identity," he said.0 -
I have no idea. But it seems unlikely that there would be a false rumour about an airliner crashing an hour before a real one went down (unless it was a terrorist attack).JosiasJessop said:
Is this the one the Russians were claiming an hour ago hadn't crashed, or another one?ydoethur said:Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-346871390 -
Mr. JEO, if Out are smart, they'll point this out [ahem]. Immigration is a hot topic for lots of people who might otherwise be disinterested in the referendum.0
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From the reports coming in it sounds like a mechanical problem.JosiasJessop said:
Is this the one the Russians were claiming an hour ago hadn't crashed, or another one?ydoethur said:Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-346871390 -
The great irony is that the anti-English bigotry that SLAB indulged in from the 1980s onwards ended up coming back not only to bite them in the arse, in the form of the SNP, but also bit Labour in the arse in marginal constituencies all over England and Wales.
That group hug by the three anti-English leftist harridans at the election debate with EdM looking weakly upon like the ultimate henpecked husband would have lost Labour thousands of votes where they mattered most.
0 -
Morning malc. Busy day ahead mowing the three lawns?malcolmg said:More comment on labour...http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2015/10/scottish-labours-predicament/
0 -
Looks like it came down in the middle of the Siani desert. Russian operated Airbus A321 from Sharm to St. Petersburg.JosiasJessop said:
Is this the one the Russians were claiming an hour ago hadn't crashed, or another one?ydoethur said:Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-346871390 -
That ScotLab spectator article is wonderful. I've long felt that ScotLab have lost their raison d'etre; caught between a potent form of frequently angry nationalism and staunch middle class Unionism they can't gain traction from one direction without losing from the other....0
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Rob, that was scandalous yesterday, they are packed away for the winter. Some bad boys on here.RobD said:
Morning malc. Busy day ahead mowing the three lawns?malcolmg said:More comment on labour...http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2015/10/scottish-labours-predicament/
PS: was an excellent laugh, I was caught rotten by Mr Brooke.
PPS: Question is how he was so knowledgeable on such things.0 -
From the BBC:
' Ministers were sent a report containing "gobsmacking" details about Kids Company only three days before paying it £3m.
The document confirmed large payments to individual clients and the family of staff and found incomplete financial records.
The document confirms that one individual client received £47,069 in tax-free support in 2014 alone and the charity spent more than £50,000 funding someone described as the child of an Iranian diplomat, including their PhD study.
It notes that the two young people who have a relative working for a charity received support worth more than £130,000 and found several examples of unusual financial practice at the now-shut charity, which was led until it closed by its high-profile founder Camila Batmanghelidjh.
The document is an initial investigation into five of the 10 allegations with the remainder expected to be addressed subsequently. It revealed details described by a senior figure in the Cabinet Office as "fairly gobsmacking" and "horrifying and familiar" by one children's services expert, who spent time trying to evaluate the charity for the government.
The report was sent to the Cabinet Office on 27 July, three days before the £3m grant payment, signed off by ministers Matthew Hancock and Oliver Letwin, was made. This payment was made against the advice of civil servants, who said that Kids Company had failed to abide by the terms of a previous grant. '
Isn't it about time that Hancock and Letwin were surcharged for this gratuitous waste of taxpayers money.
0 -
Klee
"The union being lost is down to the SNP being massively popular, Cameron hasn't solved the problem, but attacking the SNP and Evel has little to do with causing it."
They were massively popular because they were seen as the most effective opposition to the Tories. If there hadn't been a Tory government in Westminster there would never have been a referendum. The Scots were sick of being ruled by a Party they had never voted for.0 -
Mr. Richards, Letwin's like Honorius (although less murderous). Incompetent, yet somehow remains at (or near) the top for bloody years.0
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Morning all.Sandpit said:What a fantastic article, thanks David and Mike.
It must have been great to see the campaign from the inside, there was clearly a massive amount of work done behind the scenes that most of us will never know about, to hear this story from a year ago shows that was indeed the case.
David, of course you were responsible for the Conservative win, the Salmond and Ed poster worked worked perfectly as it gave to most voters an accurate picture of how the dynamic between the two leaders might work - although I am sure the actual poster used was this one: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/9/1425900594701/2e3f4b0f-f8db-4aae-8e61-42affc16f61a-bestSizeAvailable.jpeg
Hope you wife is getting better after her bad accident.
Thanks for the kind words re the article and particularly to Mrs H.
I wouldn't want to overplay my contribution. I saw a little of the inside between October and December which was indeed interesting but apart from that one trip to London, the rest was a now-and-then e-mail conversation, though as I say, it did touch on a key theme.
That theme, however, was one put to me, not one I brought to others' attention. I did affirm my belief that it was real and sustaining, and as such implied it could be used for a campaign - but it wasn't my campaign in any way. You're right about which poster it was.
Mrs H has had a long recovery and while that's still ongoing, she'll probably never get full mobility back (among various other injuries, she suffered a shattered kneecap which has left her with restricted flexibility in that leg). It's the reason why for about the first three months of the year, my political activity was more-or-less restricted solely to writing my Saturday pieces here.0 -
Mr. Herdson, sorry to hear she likely won't make a full recovery, but hopefully she'll get most of the way there.0
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Well done David! I've always thought you've been a great asset to the party and wondered why they weren't making better use of you.
Now, I know they were! But perhaps still not quite enough ;-)0 -
When will the Corbynite Left also stand up for human rights in Venezuela and Iran?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11965875/When-will-the-Corbynite-Left-also-stand-up-for-human-rights-in-Venezuela-and-Iran.html0 -
Roger, I'm not so sure. 1999 SNP manifesto, at a time when it looked eminently possible that there would never be another Tory government anywhere:Roger said:Klee
"The union being lost is down to the SNP being massively popular, Cameron hasn't solved the problem, but attacking the SNP and Evel has little to do with causing it."
They were massively popular because they were seen as the most effective opposition to the Tories. If there hadn't been a Tory government in Westminster there would never have been a referendum. The Scots were sick of being ruled by a Party they had never voted for.
p. 29We believe that the people of Scotland are sovereign and have the
p.31
absolute right to determine their own political future.On to INDEPENDENCE....and the opportunity to
And I seem to remember Salmond making it explicit at the campaign launch: 'A majority SNP government will, in its first term, hold a full referendum on Scottish independence'; although I can't be sure of that because I can't find it.
make our own decisions on matters such as conflict
resolution, international relations and foreign
policy, such as the removal of the Trident missile
system from Scotland. And we will be able to
introduce a written Constitution and a Bill of
Rights, making all Scots citizens, not subjects -
guaranteeing their protection before the law and
from unjustified government interference or
inequitable action
So whether or not there was a Tory government in Westminster, they were going to hold a referendum if they could. Not forgetting that in 2007 Labour were still in power and the minority SNP government was propped up by, of all people, the Scottish Conservatives!
EDIT - Salmond is quoted as saying in this article from 1999 'If we win a majority, there will be six months for negotiations, and then a referendum as soon as possible.'0 -
another_richard,
This should be a resignation issue for Letwin. During a time of austerity, he was handing over taxpayer money to a charity that he knew had flagrant abuse.0 -
So for the sake of the Union it would have been better if he lost? The problem with that is the alternative seemed to be an SNP labour coalition or unofficial arrangement, hardly a recipe for unionist stability either. No option provided that. So again, even if Cameron has proven inadequate to making independence look less appealing to the scots, Indy ref victory notwithstanding, the damage had already been done. By your logic of it being down to the SNP being the most effective anti Tories, that the mere presence of Tories in government is responsible, it's our fault for voting out brown in the first place.Roger said:Klee
"The union being lost is down to the SNP being massively popular, Cameron hasn't solved the problem, but attacking the SNP and Evel has little to do with causing it."
They were massively popular because they were seen as the most effective opposition to the Tories. If there hadn't been a Tory government in Westminster there would never have been a referendum. The Scots were sick of being ruled by a Party they had never voted for.
0 -
There was something on the BBC about a crash this morning: Egyptian officials saying contact had been lost, with Russian authorities saying contact had been reestablished and the plane was safe.ydoethur said:
I have no idea. But it seems unlikely that there would be a false rumour about an airliner crashing an hour before a real one went down (unless it was a terrorist attack).JosiasJessop said:
Is this the one the Russians were claiming an hour ago hadn't crashed, or another one?ydoethur said:Off-topic, another airliner goes down, although this doesn't appear to be terrorism, just a tragedy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34687139
It can't have been another one.0
