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  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,656

    RobD said:

    Fifteenth-like Chelsea.

    Wow. Not been following the footie at all! What happened :o
    They have imploded with Mourinho in full meltdown.
    As a Liverpool fan tomorrow is exciting in a different way to playing at Stamford Bridge normally is. Chelsea still have to be favourites I suspect but if we win then could that be the final straw for Mourinho?
    I hope he goes whatever the result, I can't stand the childish egomaniac. We have superb attacking players but play the dullest football imaginable, worse still we have some superb youngsters that will never get a chance under Mourinho.
    I can't imagine anybody having sympathy for Mourinho if he gets the sack, in fact I believe he's looking for an out. His achievements as a manager are there for all to see but he's been bad for football.

    He's an impact manager, nothing more and good for 2/3 years at most. I agree it seems he is looking to get sacked, some of you guys with much better knowledge of employment law than me can help with this:

    Given the way he has behaved this season, first with the club Doctor business and with his behavior at West Ham, would the club have grounds to sack him for gross misconduct?
    Possibly, but they might be wise to give him a final written warning, which would give them far greater scope next time.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,656

    Hello rpjs
    Yes I believe you are broadly right. However the boat davits were sort of state of the art and in fact could have carried 2 (3?) lifeboats each, not just 1. However this took up a lot of deck space and in the end the space was used to provide some sort of snazzy walking promenade space.

    IIRC, the assumption - not unreasonable for the time and route - was that there'd be other ships in the vicinity that could take the passengers. The lifeboats weren't so much to await rescue in as for transfer from one ship to another.

    If so, that wouldn't have been much help had it sunk in fog, for example, which is entirely plausible (see the Empress of Ireland).
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903



    Didn't he disbelieve the distress call because the Titanic was known to be unsinkable?

    I had a friend from a Naval family who had access to the Naval archives and researched the subject exhaustively. He argued very convincingly that the The Titanic was actually The Britannic,
    Oh dear. No. The Britannic wasn't built yet, the Olympic was only a year older than the Titanic and as with all conspiracy theories, you would have to have a crew of 700 odd people to completely swallow this cunning plan, find and accurately hit an iceberg and have everyone triumphantly rescued. And then never tell anyone! Sorry but no!!

    The Titanic was steaming at 21 knots, which was fast but not Blue Ribband fast, on a very calm night and saw the iceberg too late.the Officer of the Watch made a split second decision to avoid the berg and really couldn't be blamed for trying to miss.

    Had any modern cruise liner, such as Costa Concordia or other large ships of a similar size sustained similar damage, they would probably have capsized very quickly without the opportunity to get all their (inadequate) lifeboats away...
    Observing modern cruise liners I cannot help notice that they have very high freeboard and windage. I suspect that their point of no return following a tilt is much less than more conventional liner shapes. While rolling with wind or waves is possible to anticipate, the tilting effect of an underwater impact with berg, rock or ship is quite possible.
    Fair point, they are built like multi story buildings. They are really floating hotels after all.
    However would they not have double hulls... and fancy keels giving stability?
    I don't think that they have particularly deep keels, though I believe the vertical stability of a boat is proportional to the 4th power of the beam. Other factors matter too of course.

    The capsize of the whale watchers in Canada apparently from crowding on the upper deck demonstrates these can still happen.
    I'm impressed by this 4th lower to the beam stuff. I was thinking they may have twin keels or extendible keels or other sorts of anti roll systems. They do try very hard to make them stable if only to avoid seasickness.
    As for the whale watching tragedy, I am surprised if these trips had been going on for any length of time at all, that the dangers of rushing to one side of the boat on the upper decks had not manifested themselves earlier.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,656

    RobD said:

    Fifteenth-like Chelsea.

    Wow. Not been following the footie at all! What happened :o
    They have imploded with Mourinho in full meltdown.
    As a Liverpool fan tomorrow is exciting in a different way to playing at Stamford Bridge normally is. Chelsea still have to be favourites I suspect but if we win then could that be the final straw for Mourinho?
    I hope he goes whatever the result, I can't stand the childish egomaniac. We have superb attacking players but play the dullest football imaginable, worse still we have some superb youngsters that will never get a chance under Mourinho.
    I can't imagine anybody having sympathy for Mourinho if he gets the sack, in fact I believe he's looking for an out. His achievements as a manager are there for all to see but he's been bad for football.

    I don't think he's ever come to terms with not getting the Man Utd job.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Paging Basil

    @MSmithsonPB: Before ComRes applied its turnout model in latest phone poll for the Mail - LAB had small lead. See https://t.co/NePNV8QBbt

    Unweighted totals before the election were completely wrong and scientifically inaccurate, so what?
    The point here is that the WEIGHTED ComRes totals had LAB ahead. Once the new turnout model was applied CON moved to 5% lead.
    To be fair isn't turnout weighting just as relevant as other parts of weightings?

    That graphic is like taking ICM's data using pre-92 weightings.
    Indeed and the fact remains Corbyn has not led or come close to leading one poll since he was elected leader
    Do you still think he's going to sweep Labour back in Scotland?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.

    Come now Sean, it wasn't that good
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Do you still think he's going to sweep Labour back in Scotland?

    When all else fails, I suppose, you can just plead for mercy. That appears to be the message emanating from the Scottish Labour party’s conference in Perth this weekend. The theme, Kezia Dugdale says, is “Take a fresh look” at Labour.

    OK.

    [Awkward silence.]

    Now what?

    How bad might it get? Well, there are people within Labour who worry that the party might come third in next May’s elections. If this still seems rather unlikely it is no longer utterly impossible.

    Corbyn’s speech today didn’t even begin to address that. Instead it simply lived down to expectations.
    http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/jeremy-corbyn-comes-to-scotland-and-discovers-he-has-nothing-to-say/
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    RobD said:

    Fifteenth-like Chelsea.

    Wow. Not been following the footie at all! What happened :o
    They have imploded with Mourinho in full meltdown.
    As a Liverpool fan tomorrow is exciting in a different way to playing at Stamford Bridge normally is. Chelsea still have to be favourites I suspect but if we win then could that be the final straw for Mourinho?
    I hope he goes whatever the result, I can't stand the childish egomaniac. We have superb attacking players but play the dullest football imaginable, worse still we have some superb youngsters that will never get a chance under Mourinho.
    I can't imagine anybody having sympathy for Mourinho if he gets the sack, in fact I believe he's looking for an out. His achievements as a manager are there for all to see but he's been bad for football.

    He's an impact manager, nothing more and good for 2/3 years at most. I agree it seems he is looking to get sacked, some of you guys with much better knowledge of employment law than me can help with this:

    Given the way he has behaved this season, first with the club Doctor business and with his behavior at West Ham, would the club have grounds to sack him for gross misconduct?
    Possibly, but they might be wise to give him a final written warning, which would give them far greater scope next time.
    Since when do football clubs need to give final written warnings before sacking a manager? Win the title one more time or you're out. ???
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.

    Come now Sean, it wasn't that good
    I was indeed being quite restrained.

    I'm not sure so much cinematic money, talent and time has ever been harnessed to produce such an autistic pile of pfft.
    Sounds like I should wait for it to be on the telly!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    I'm not sure so much cinematic money, talent and time has ever been harnessed to produce such an autistic pile of pfft.

    The second new Star Trek comes pretty close...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,656
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    Oh go on - tell us which others are in contention for that accolade...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Paging Basil

    @MSmithsonPB: Before ComRes applied its turnout model in latest phone poll for the Mail - LAB had small lead. See https://t.co/NePNV8QBbt

    Unweighted totals before the election were completely wrong and scientifically inaccurate, so what?
    The point here is that the WEIGHTED ComRes totals had LAB ahead. Once the new turnout model was applied CON moved to 5% lead.
    To be fair isn't turnout weighting just as relevant as other parts of weightings?

    That graphic is like taking ICM's data using pre-92 weightings.
    Indeed and the fact remains Corbyn has not led or come close to leading one poll since he was elected leader
    Do you still think he's going to sweep Labour back in Scotland?
    I never said he would sweep Labour back in Scotland, just he might make some gains from the SNP, the SNP indeed seem to be down in both polls today, just the Tories have made most of the gains with Labour unchanged. (Though Corbyn might win a few more SNP preferences at Holyrood on the regional list)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Great wall of South Africa tonight.
  • Saturdays Times 'Foreigners to pay for emergency healthcare' - long overdue - I have travelled World-wide extensively over the last ten years and I don't know any Country who gives free health care to foreigners
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK

    It's not
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Quite fancy Chelsea tmrw at 11/10... And Palace at 3/1
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548



    Didn't he disbelieve the distress call because the Titanic was known to be unsinkable?

    I had a friend from a Naval family who had access to the Naval archives and researched the subject exhaustively. He argued very convincingly that the The Titanic was actually The Britannic,
    Oh dear. No. The Britannic wasn't built yet, the Olympic was only a year older than the Titanic and as with all conspiracy theories, you would have to have a crew of 700 odd people to completely swallow this cunning plan, find and accurately hit an iceberg and have everyone triumphantly rescued. And then never tell anyone! Sorry but no!!

    The Titanic was steaming at 21 knots, which was fast but not Blue Ribband
    Observing modern cruise liners I cannot help notice that they have very high freeboard and windage. I suspect that their point of no return following a tilt is much less than more conventional liner shapes. While rolling with wind or waves is possible to anticipate, the tilting effect of an underwater impact with berg, rock or ship is quite possible.
    Fair point, they are built like multi story buildings. They are really floating hotels after all.
    However would they not have double hulls... and fancy keels giving stability?
    I don't think that they have particularly deep keels, though I believe the vertical stability of a boat is proportional to the 4th power of the beam. Other factors matter too of course.

    The capsize of the whale watchers in Canada apparently from crowding on the upper deck demonstrates these can still happen.
    I'm impressed by this 4th lower to the beam stuff. I was thinking they may have twin keels or extendible keels or other sorts of anti roll systems. They do try very hard to make them stable if only to avoid seasickness.
    As for the whale watching tragedy, I am surprised if these trips had been going on for any length of time at all, that the dangers of rushing to one side of the boat on the upper decks had not manifested themselves earlier.
    There is an extensive work through of the maths in this excellent book:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seaworthy-Offshore-Sailboat-Essential-Features/dp/007137616X#productDescription_secondary_view_div_1446241998234

    Based on sailing boats of course but the maths should be the same for motor vessels. The author also makes a convincing case that negative inverted stability matters even more. In other words it is not so bad to capsize if the boat is self-righting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272

    Why the edit???
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163



    Didn't he disbelieve the distress call because the Titanic was known to be unsinkable?

    I had a friend from a Naval family who had access to the Naval archives and researched the subject exhaustively. He argued very convincingly that the The Titanic was actually The Britannic, it's sister ship, just disguised as the Titanic, which was old and ready for the scrapheap, and the plan was to sink The Titanic (Britannic), thereby getting rid of the old ship, keeping the shiny new one, and claiming the insurance. The travellers were to be rescued, as a ship was thought to be nearby, but this turned out to be a fishing boat or something?? I'm very low on detail as I've never researched it myself, just telling you what he said. Lots of evidence for it apparently - such as the name Titanic being on a steel plate as opposed to carved into the hull as was usual.
    Oh dear. No. The Britannic wasn't built yet, the Olympic was only a year older than the Titanic and as with all conspiracy theories, you would have to have a crew of 700 odd people to completely swallow this cunning plan, find and accurately hit an iceberg and have everyone triumphantly rescued. And then never tell anyone! Sorry but no!!

    The Titanic was steaming at 21 knots, which was fast but not Blue Ribband fast, on a very calm night and saw the iceberg too late.the Officer of the Watch made a split second decision to avoid the berg and really couldn't be blamed for trying to miss.

    Had any modern cruise liner, such as Costa Concordia or other large ships of a similar size sustained similar damage, they would probably have capsized very quickly without the opportunity to get all their (inadequate) lifeboats away...
    Yes, I agree it sounds very far-fetched. Furthermore it may well be that I muddled the names of the ships - it's all taken from one conversation over ten years ago whilst laying tables!
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272

    Why the edit???
    Touchy Chelsea supporters maybe !!!!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    Oh here is the IBD/TIPP poll link that I forgot to post previously:

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/103015-778378-donald-trump-leads-ben-carson-second-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm

    Goodnight.
  • HYUFD said:

    Paging Basil

    @MSmithsonPB: Before ComRes applied its turnout model in latest phone poll for the Mail - LAB had small lead. See https://t.co/NePNV8QBbt

    Unweighted totals before the election were completely wrong and scientifically inaccurate, so what?
    The point here is that the WEIGHTED ComRes totals had LAB ahead. Once the new turnout model was applied CON moved to 5% lead.
    To be fair isn't turnout weighting just as relevant as other parts of weightings?

    That graphic is like taking ICM's data using pre-92 weightings.
    And raise your hand if you have any confidence in polling? Especially from Com(edy) Res?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    Quite fancy Chelsea tmrw at 11/10... And Palace at 3/1

    I would go for a score draw at Chelsea, nil nil at Palace.

    Score draw for the foxes against the baggies too.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272

    Why the edit???
    I have just spat out some decent plonk when I saw that!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The RNC has "suspended partnership" with NBC News over the next GOP debate in February.

    The first fallout from CNBC's handling of wednesday's debate. There will be more.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Saturdays Times 'Foreigners to pay for emergency healthcare' - long overdue - I have travelled World-wide extensively over the last ten years and I don't know any Country who gives free health care to foreigners

    The risk here is bureaucracy. It means every hospital must create a mechanism for identifying, charging, and receiving payments from, foreigners. Hospitals overseas, of course, charge everyone anyway so they are already set up for this. Maybe it is a good idea, and long overdue, but I'd want to be sure the Department has done its sums and it won't cost more than it makes.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Saturdays Times 'Foreigners to pay for emergency healthcare' - long overdue - I have travelled World-wide extensively over the last ten years and I don't know any Country who gives free health care to foreigners

    The risk here is bureaucracy. It means every hospital must create a mechanism for identifying, charging, and receiving payments from, foreigners. Hospitals overseas, of course, charge everyone anyway so they are already set up for this. Maybe it is a good idea, and long overdue, but I'd want to be sure the Department has done its sums and it won't cost more than it makes.
    We have it already. The hard bit is actually getting the money!
  • Saturdays Times 'Foreigners to pay for emergency healthcare' - long overdue - I have travelled World-wide extensively over the last ten years and I don't know any Country who gives free health care to foreigners

    The risk here is bureaucracy. It means every hospital must create a mechanism for identifying, charging, and receiving payments from, foreigners. Hospitals overseas, of course, charge everyone anyway so they are already set up for this. Maybe it is a good idea, and long overdue, but I'd want to be sure the Department has done its sums and it won't cost more than it makes.
    As you say other Countries are set up for it and we should be the same. The Times quotes 500 million pounds being lost - we really have to do everything to maximise income to the NHS
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    chestnut said:

    All the recent talk about tax credits - what's happening with Universal Credits?

    Being implemented. One in eight jobseekers.
    The DWP (having got its fingers burnt with spare room subsidy) has worked out that you need to phase massive changes in, if not for the people who receive them, but for the people who administer them.

    UC is phased in with all new applicants.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    Paging Basil

    @MSmithsonPB: Before ComRes applied its turnout model in latest phone poll for the Mail - LAB had small lead. See https://t.co/NePNV8QBbt

    Unweighted totals before the election were completely wrong and scientifically inaccurate, so what?
    The point here is that the WEIGHTED ComRes totals had LAB ahead. Once the new turnout model was applied CON moved to 5% lead.
    To be fair isn't turnout weighting just as relevant as other parts of weightings?

    That graphic is like taking ICM's data using pre-92 weightings.
    And raise your hand if you have any confidence in polling? Especially from Com(edy) Res?
    Comres were one of the more accurate pollsters in May and normally had a Tory lead, there online poll gives a 13 point Tory lead
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Quite fancy Chelsea tmrw at 11/10... And Palace at 3/1

    I would go for a score draw at Chelsea, nil nil at Palace.

    Score draw for the foxes against the baggies too.
    My other two were Swansea at 9/2 and Newcastle at 6/4

    I need one of Newcastle and Stoke to keep a clean sheet for the 5th leg of last weeks acca to cop ( i meant to put Sunderland vs Newcastle so it should have won anyway... )
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm not sure so much cinematic money, talent and time has ever been harnessed to produce such an autistic pile of pfft.

    The second new Star Trek comes pretty close...
    Heresy.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272

    Why the edit???
    I have just spat out some decent plonk when I saw that!
    The moderator has form for deleting gags of mine that get laughs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    Heresy.

    IIRC TSE liked that one too, so we should all have known just how suspect his cinematic judgement is
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK

    It's not
    On rotten tomatoes it is rated above Quantum, below Casino Royale and Skyfall
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    IMHO it's worse than Quantum of Solace, which I forgot entirely after a week. I forgot Spectre DURING the movie. No exagg. I literally forgot who was fighting whom, and why, and why the F I should give a toss about anyone. The lack of a coherent plot is fairly stunning.
    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    Heresy.

    IIRC TSE liked that one too, so we should all have known just how suspect his cinematic judgement is
    I loved it, but haven't been interested enough to see Skyfall or Spectre (or Solace for that matter), as Casino Royale was only ok, so maybe my judgement is half ok?

    I thought The Martian was the best film I've seen in years.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2015
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Quite fancy Chelsea tmrw at 11/10... And Palace at 3/1

    I would go for a score draw at Chelsea, nil nil at Palace.

    Score draw for the foxes against the baggies too.
    My other two were Swansea at 9/2 and Newcastle at 6/4

    I need one of Newcastle and Stoke to keep a clean sheet for the 5th leg of last weeks acca to cop ( i meant to put Sunderland vs Newcastle so it should have won anyway... )
    I think your acca should come in.

    I think Bounmouth and Norwich are in for pastings though.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    I thought The Martian was the best film I've seen in years.

    It is very good, though I think the book is better
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    twitter.com/footyhumour/status/657984665639350272

    Why the edit???
    I have just spat out some decent plonk when I saw that!
    The moderator has form for deleting gags of mine that get laughs
    Not deleting, just trimming the "http" so it doesn't appear embedded in the comment stream. I try to do this when copy/pasting tweets over, for instance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    I thought The Martian was the best film I've seen in years.

    It is very good, though I think the book is better
    I've ordered it in order to see, I had heard of it but in all honesty I'd not even have seen the movie if I hadn't had a day off and felt like killing a few hours. Sounds promising for the book if it is indeed better.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited October 2015
    Mr Smithson must be a Tory, no twitter account.. no vote.. despicable voodoo poll ;)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118



    isam said:

    isam said:

    Quite fancy Chelsea tmrw at 11/10... And Palace at 3/1

    I would go for a score draw at Chelsea, nil nil at Palace.

    Score draw for the foxes against the baggies too.
    My other two were Swansea at 9/2 and Newcastle at 6/4

    I need one of Newcastle and Stoke to keep a clean sheet for the 5th leg of last weeks acca to cop ( i meant to put Sunderland vs Newcastle so it should have won anyway... )
    I think your acca should come in.

    I think Bounmouth and Norwich are in for pastings though.
    I'm gonna go for a super duper muggy trebles and acca

    Chelsea to win 2-1 or 3-1
    Palace to win 2-1 or 3-1
    Swansea to win 2-1 or 3-1
    Newcastle to win 1-0 or 2-0
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    Sometimes great stories come from deconstructing the traditional tropes of a tale, then reconstructing them in a way which works in a fresh way. With Skyfall and Spectre, it seems like opinion is very divided on whether it worked here or not, but I can appreciate the intent perhaps. Until I watch it and, maybe, dislike it.
  • viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    But Bond is about gadgets and Martinis. Shaken not stirred.

    The notion of Bond drinking Heineken rather than a Martini just grates.

    (Not seen Spectre yet)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    Sometimes great stories come from deconstructing the traditional tropes of a tale, then reconstructing them in a way which works in a fresh way.

    That might have worked, but in Spectre they reconstructed them as exact replcas of previous Bond scenes.

    This is a spoiler

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO90Z_mXgRE
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    Sometimes great stories come from deconstructing the traditional tropes of a tale, then reconstructing them in a way which works in a fresh way.

    That might have worked, but in Spectre they reconstructed them as exact replcas of previous Bond scenes.

    This is a spoiler

    htts://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO90Z_mXgRE
    I think I'll stick with Kingsman for now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    But Bond is about gadgets and Martinis. Shaken not stirred.

    The notion of Bond drinking Heineken rather than a Martini just grates.

    (Not seen Spectre yet)
    You have seen Spectre before. It's a remake of this film.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    No amount of brown nosing from Matthew Hancock will save him now. Alan Yentob is finished as well. Newsnight are reporting that Kids Company was funding an Iranian diplomat's daughter's PhD.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    Heresy.

    IIRC TSE liked that one too, so we should all have known just how suspect his cinematic judgement is
    I loved it, but haven't been interested enough to see Skyfall or Spectre (or Solace for that matter), as Casino Royale was only ok, so maybe my judgement is half ok?

    I thought The Martian was the best film I've seen in years.
    Three films I have seen recently, The Martian, The Walk and Suffragette were all excellent
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    MP_SE said:

    No amount of brown nosing from Matthew Hancock will save him now. Alan Yentob is finished as well. Newsnight are reporting that Kids Company was funding an Iranian diplomat's daughter's PhD.

    Toasters on standby.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @michaelsavage: James Meadway will now not be employed as an economic adviser to the Labour leadership. It is expected he'll offer informal advice in future

    @michaelsavage: It has emerged James Meadway, lined up as Labour adviser, campaigned for George Galloway in 2005 election. Later listed as a Respect member.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Blimey, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz are both 44.

    Rubio looks about a decade younger I reckon. 38/48 if I had to guess.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Telegraph: Aston Martin name set to return to Formula One for the first time in over 50 years https://t.co/6jIUKTA1jD https://t.co/6pZOSRQljN
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: James Meadway will now not be employed as an economic adviser to the Labour leadership. It is expected he'll offer informal advice in future

    @michaelsavage: It has emerged James Meadway, lined up as Labour adviser, campaigned for George Galloway in 2005 election. Later listed as a Respect member.

    All those tweets deleted for no reason :p
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    All those tweets deleted for no reason :p

    @michaelsavage: In 2005, Meadway said he wanted to "move heaven and earth to ensure" Labour's Oona King lost to Respect's George Galloway.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    Sometimes great stories come from deconstructing the traditional tropes of a tale, then reconstructing them in a way which works in a fresh way. With Skyfall and Spectre, it seems like opinion is very divided on whether it worked here or not, but I can appreciate the intent perhaps. Until I watch it and, maybe, dislike it.
    I agree with the point that deconstructing tropes and recasting them in a modern style can work quite well, as every director of "Richard III" knows well (there's a funny joke in "The Goodbye Girl" about that tendency, btw). And there is some pleasure in using the tropes as a three-finger-exercise, seeing how well you can execute the preset pattern. So those are not bad points

    But Spectre did none of those things, it just threw in the cliches as fanwank - "look! Crater HQ! See what we did there?". It's like that "Simpsons" episode where Homer designs a car, and it's...a shit car.

    'Scuse my ranty behavior, but Spectre reminds me of "Jupiter Ascending": a huge budget extravaganza with well-executed action scenes, mutilated by a plot that an eight-year-old child could have pointed out was shit. The twists in Spectre are awful
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,656
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
    I did think of writing off on spec with a theme tune of my own for Spectre but never got round to it. One inner theme was hiding 'Spectre' within the lyrics - "I respect a man who lies" etc - before only unleashing if in the final couplet "There's a spectre in your mind / [pause] it's the lives you left behind"

    As with so much else, I never got round to it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
    I think Madonna's Die Another Day theme tune stands up quite well - its very Madonna (glad she didn't try and do a torch song), but also has the orchestral side. Her cameo wasn't terrible either, but that could just be compared to the unmitigated shite that was the rest of the film.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2015
    My limited Bond knowledge

    'View to a Kill' was a good song

    The golf scene in Goldfinger is great

    I watched the one that came out in 1995 ish at the pictures but can't remember a think about it

    More of an Austin Powers man
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I think the next leader will be Sajid Javed or Theresa May.
  • Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    All those tweets deleted for no reason :p

    @michaelsavage: In 2005, Meadway said he wanted to "move heaven and earth to ensure" Labour's Oona King lost to Respect's George Galloway.
    Is it shocking to anyone that the Labour Leadership now are closer to Gorgeous George than Oona?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The gizmos in the latest bond movie could be called the 'In Spectre Gadgets'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    isam said:

    The gizmos in the latest bond movie could be called the 'In Spectre Gadgets'

    We're here all week, folks...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Ministers were sent a report containing "gobsmacking" details about Kids Company only three days before paying it £3m.
    The document confirmed large payments to individual clients and the family of staff and found incomplete financial records.
    At the time, the charity said clinical need justified the spending.
    Newsnight and BuzzFeed News have seen the report, which was commissioned by Kids Company.
    The document confirms that one individual client received £47,069 in tax-free support in 2014 alone and the charity spent more than £50,000 funding someone described as the child of an Iranian diplomat, including their PhD study."


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34668157
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
    cough cough Spy Who Loved Me, cough cough Goldeneye...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Alright, I give in.

    Time to watch Spectre !
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    It's the last day of the month, so it's time for another Court ordered Clinton email dump. 268 emails contain classified information, bringing the total to almost 700.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    I know that's the whole point of the reboot. But once Bond was fully assembled at the end of Casino Royale, they didn't have to put the cruft back in.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    I know that's the whole point of the reboot. But once Bond was fully assembled at the end of Casino Royale, they didn't have to put the cruft back in.
    But Bond isn't fully assembled without fast cars, girls, gadgets and Martinis etc
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2015
    The ministers who authorised funds to Kids Company after reading the report about money being spent on PhDs and designer clothes ought to resign IMO.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    I can't leave this Bond discussion without repeating Norfolk's finest DJ's command that you stop getting Bond wrong...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    AndyJS said:

    The ministers who authorised funds to Kids Company after reading the report about money being spent on funding PhDs and designer clothes ought to resign IMO.

    Tories done in by giving too much to Charity. Who'd have thunk it! :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    edited October 2015
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
    Goldfinger I agree has the best song, followed closely by Diamonds are Forever. Honourable mentions for Skyfall, The Spy who Loved Me, Goldeneye, From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service 'We have all the time in the world' and Live and Let Die and I also quite liked Duran Duran's 'A View to A Kill'
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    isam said:

    My limited Bond knowledge

    'View to a Kill' was a good song

    The golf scene in Goldfinger is great

    I watched the one that came out in 1995 ish at the pictures but can't remember a think about it

    More of an Austin Powers man

    I think Daniel Craig is fine and I appreciate how they've tried to take the character in a slightly different direction but he'd only be my fourth favourite Bond after Connery, Moore and Mike Myers.
  • viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    The thing I found weird about the reboot was keeping Dame Judi Dench as M etc

    Having new Bond actors continue to play Bond (and so keeping Q, M etc) is one thing but rebooting and keeping them seemed odd to me.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    I know that's the whole point of the reboot. But once Bond was fully assembled at the end of Casino Royale, they didn't have to put the cruft back in.
    But Bond isn't fully assembled without fast cars, girls, gadgets and Martinis etc
    I see your point, but at best these things should be background. They are not sufficient in and of themselves: you do have to have things like plot, characters, dialogue...
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    I know that's the whole point of the reboot. But once Bond was fully assembled at the end of Casino Royale, they didn't have to put the cruft back in.
    But Bond isn't fully assembled without fast cars, girls, gadgets and Martinis etc
    Bond is supposed to be a great big boy's adventure against great nasty people in great far-away settings, always saving the day and the girl.
    That pretty much summarizes it.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    AndyJS said:

    I think the next leader will be Sajid Javed or Theresa May.

    Nah, Mrs May is too old, too much of the last generation. That there will be lady in the final two is odds on, but who? Morris Dancer reckons Justine Greening, but I think she has become too housetrained by her civil servants at the DfID to be popular enough with MPs, let alone the party at large. Priti Patel is too hard.

    My money is on Liz Truss, providing she doesn't make an ass of herself between now and the leadership election and does OK at DEFRA. She has those blue eyes and sardonic half-smile (just look at her picture on her web site) that will turn many middle aged conservative MPs weak at the knees and make them beg for the privilege of nominating her. She also has the steel that will enable her to appeal to the lady voters. Her back story ain't bad either - comprehensive educated, left wing parents, and 12 years doing real jobs in the private sector - shame about the PPE from Oxford, but she can't be perfect.

    Liz Truss or Mr. Javid will be the next Conservative leader and probably Prime Minister. Faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieurs, faites vos jeux.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    AndyJS said:

    I think the next leader will be Sajid Javed or Theresa May.

    Nah, Mrs May is too old, too much of the last generation. That there will be lady in the final two is odds on, but who? Morris Dancer reckons Justine Greening, but I think she has become too housetrained by her civil servants at the DfID to be popular enough with MPs, let alone the party at large. Priti Patel is too hard.

    My money is on Liz Truss, providing she doesn't make an ass of herself between now and the leadership election and does OK at DEFRA. She has those blue eyes and sardonic half-smile (just look at her picture on her web site) that will turn many middle aged conservative MPs weak at the knees and make them beg for the privilege of nominating her. She also has the steel that will enable her to appeal to the lady voters. Her back story ain't bad either - comprehensive educated, left wing parents, and 12 years doing real jobs in the private sector - shame about the PPE from Oxford, but she can't be perfect.

    Liz Truss or Mr. Javid will be the next Conservative leader and probably Prime Minister. Faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieurs, faites vos jeux.
    Gawd, not Liz Truss. Didn't she give that awful conference speech. Makes me cringe just thinking about it (much apols to her if it is a case of mistaken identity).
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
    Goldfinger I agree has the best song, followed closely by Diamonds are Forever. Honourable mentions for Skyfall, The Spy who Loved Me, Goldeneye, From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service 'We have all the time in the world' and Live and Let Die and I also quite liked Duran Duran's 'A View to A Kill'
    Shirley Bassey and Amy Winehouse had the same and best voice for a bond song, however only one lives.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
    I think Madonna's Die Another Day theme tune stands up quite well - its very Madonna (glad she didn't try and do a torch song), but also has the orchestral side. Her cameo wasn't terrible either, but that could just be compared to the unmitigated shite that was the rest of the film.
    The fact that Madonna's theme was the best thing about the film tells you how bad it was
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
    I did think of writing off on spec with a theme tune of my own for Spectre but never got round to it. One inner theme was hiding 'Spectre' within the lyrics - "I respect a man who lies" etc - before only unleashing if in the final couplet "There's a spectre in your mind / [pause] it's the lives you left behind"

    As with so much else, I never got round to it.
    You could have been the SeanT of the film composer world!
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    I think the next leader will be Sajid Javed or Theresa May.

    Nah, Mrs May is too old, too much of the last generation. That there will be lady in the final two is odds on, but who? Morris Dancer reckons Justine Greening, but I think she has become too housetrained by her civil servants at the DfID to be popular enough with MPs, let alone the party at large. Priti Patel is too hard.

    My money is on Liz Truss, providing she doesn't make an ass of herself between now and the leadership election and does OK at DEFRA. She has those blue eyes and sardonic half-smile (just look at her picture on her web site) that will turn many middle aged conservative MPs weak at the knees and make them beg for the privilege of nominating her. She also has the steel that will enable her to appeal to the lady voters. Her back story ain't bad either - comprehensive educated, left wing parents, and 12 years doing real jobs in the private sector - shame about the PPE from Oxford, but she can't be perfect.

    Liz Truss or Mr. Javid will be the next Conservative leader and probably Prime Minister. Faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieurs, faites vos jeux.
    Gawd, not Liz Truss. Didn't she give that awful conference speech. Makes me cringe just thinking about it (much apols to her if it is a case of mistaken identity).
    I don't know about the speech thing, Mr. D., I didn't follow this year's conferences at all. However, if you can come up with another plausible lady candidate I shall be all ears.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Well I will go in with low expectations then and hope to be surprised, the opening scene in Mexico City is meant to be be very good though so I will go for that if nothing else

    Yup. There is a good argument to be made for leaving during the opening credits.

    And the theme song is crap. I thought it was crap when I heard it a few weeks ago. Somebody said it's better when you see the titles behind it.

    They were wrong...
    Again, still better than Madonna's awful mix for Die Another Day, which was not only the worst Bond film I have seen but one of the worst films I have seen full stop. I managed to stay in the cinema for all of that film, so I will probably last through Spectre until the end
    I did think of writing off on spec with a theme tune of my own for Spectre but never got round to it. One inner theme was hiding 'Spectre' within the lyrics - "I respect a man who lies" etc - before only unleashing if in the final couplet "There's a spectre in your mind / [pause] it's the lives you left behind"

    As with so much else, I never got round to it.
    The world of the Bond song is a very murky one. The Good Lady Wifi wrote a song for either Goldneye or Tomorrow Never Dies (I can't recall which) and it was the personal favourite of Barbara Broccoli. But even that wasn't enough to get it through the music industry machinations...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    One of the things the early Bonds had was great editing. Watch Goldfinger (the shortest of the Bonds) - or Thunderball or You Only Live Twice - and you'll see they have a pace (thanks to great editing) which is missing today.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    In Casino Royale, they had the scriptwriters and the best Bond director (Martin Campbell) painstakingly remove all the fancruft that had attached (Nehru jackets, crater HQ, Martinis, the gadgets, the rapey "seductions") and reduced it to its core: terminator in handmade Savile Row suit kills bad guys.

    In Spectre, they painstakingly put all the cruft back in.

    They did that. They really did that. They sat down and thought "You know the stupid shit we took out? Let's put it back in, because, because that's why James Bond is all about, innit? What could possibly go wrong?"
    I think you'll find that was the whole point of the reboot. It was meant to take the story back to the beginning and show Bond becoming Bond. The fact they seem to have not to have succeeded in making those elements plausible in a 21st century scenario is neither here nor there.
    I know that's the whole point of the reboot. But once Bond was fully assembled at the end of Casino Royale, they didn't have to put the cruft back in.
    But Bond isn't fully assembled without fast cars, girls, gadgets and Martinis etc
    I see your point, but at best these things should be background. They are not sufficient in and of themselves: you do have to have things like plot, characters, dialogue...
    Yes absolutely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
    Goldfinger I agree has the best song, followed closely by Diamonds are Forever. Honourable mentions for Skyfall, The Spy who Loved Me, Goldeneye, From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service 'We have all the time in the world' and Live and Let Die and I also quite liked Duran Duran's 'A View to A Kill'
    Shirley Bassey and Amy Winehouse had the same and best voice for a bond song, however only one lives.
    Indeed, while Bassey's Bond themes are immortal it was a shame Winehouse never got the chance to do one
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    AndyJS said:

    The ministers who authorised funds to Kids Company after reading the report about money being spent on PhDs and designer clothes ought to resign IMO.

    Hancock and Letwin, it woud appear, Mr JS.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    I think the next leader will be Sajid Javed or Theresa May.

    Nah, Mrs May is too old, too much of the last generation. That there will be lady in the final two is odds on, but who? Morris Dancer reckons Justine Greening, but I think she has become too housetrained by her civil servants at the DfID to be popular enough with MPs, let alone the party at large. Priti Patel is too hard.

    My money is on Liz Truss, providing she doesn't make an ass of herself between now and the leadership election and does OK at DEFRA. She has those blue eyes and sardonic half-smile (just look at her picture on her web site) that will turn many middle aged conservative MPs weak at the knees and make them beg for the privilege of nominating her. She also has the steel that will enable her to appeal to the lady voters. Her back story ain't bad either - comprehensive educated, left wing parents, and 12 years doing real jobs in the private sector - shame about the PPE from Oxford, but she can't be perfect.

    Liz Truss or Mr. Javid will be the next Conservative leader and probably Prime Minister. Faites vos jeux, mesdames et messieurs, faites vos jeux.
    Gawd, not Liz Truss. Didn't she give that awful conference speech. Makes me cringe just thinking about it (much apols to her if it is a case of mistaken identity).
    I don't know about the speech thing, Mr. D., I didn't follow this year's conferences at all. However, if you can come up with another plausible lady candidate I shall be all ears.
    Ah, I think it was a few years ago, so maybe she's improved since then!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @robertshrimsley: Spectre - No; just no.

    Spectre is one of the worst Bond films ever made. It is quite stupefyingly mediocre.
    It can't be worse than Die Another Day, Skyfall and Casino Royale were two of the best made in my view so a hard act to follow, if it is better than Quantum of Solace it will be OK
    I think nothing can top Goldfinger as the best one, pretty much the early Connery and the early Moore ones were much better than the ones that followed, but yet again the 60's and 70's were much more imaginative and creative than today's period.
    Diamonds are Forever is my personal favourite although Goldfinger is also up there but I would also have Skyfall and Casino Royale near the top
    Dr No was a good low budget thriller, From Russia With Love was better (and the closest to the book), and was the first movie to have a pre-credits sequence, but with Goldfinger it all came together and was a worldwide sensation. The Aston Martin went on its own world tour. Plus Goldfinger has far and away the best theme song.
    Goldfinger I agree has the best song, followed closely by Diamonds are Forever. Honourable mentions for Skyfall, The Spy who Loved Me, Goldeneye, From Russia With Love, On Her Majesty's Secret Service 'We have all the time in the world' and Live and Let Die and I also quite liked Duran Duran's 'A View to A Kill'
    You didn't mention Nina and Frederick in OHMSS!!!!!
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