I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
If it didn't happen, how big a fee will Cameron really have. Ashcroft can't go to the courts with one man's claims.
F1: Japan could be wet for both the race and qualifying.
If so, that's bad for Ferrari (I think the Mercedes has a better chassis). Verstappen was pretty damned racy earlier in the year in the wet (I forget where, but he was very impressive).
How desperate Ashcroft,Oakeshott and Dair must be.. In their amateurish effort g to discredit Cameron they have abandoned all the principles of good journalism, made themselves look foolish and in Oakeshotts case.,probably ruined her career. Ashcroft has also committed the cardinal sin of all ..being shunned by the Establishment he craves to be a part of and also by the social circle he moves in He is now deemed to be totally untrustworthy
Oakeshott's ruined her career? She's sold an awful lot of newspapers, which might count for a lot in Fleet Street. Some Cameron loyalists will shun her? His enemies won't, and Cameron will have retired in the next year or two.
I imagine that mainstream politicians will shun her as they now know she is one of those not-to-be-trusted journalists that just prints whatever they come across without verification. But you're right, she could continue as the in-house journalist for the partisan Labour supporters that don't care about integrity as long as the Tories have been attacked. Thankfully for her, such types are now running the Labour party.
Cameron's enemies are behind him, where Conservative backbenchers outside his circle have been passed over for their rightful (as they see it) places as junior ministers and in Cabinet.
Do you have any evidence for that. Even if what you say is true - and I doubt it is in any meaningful way given that the government includes many more members than might be said to be in Cameron's 'circle' - what is there alternative? There is not some parallel machine like there was in Labour under the Blair/Brown regime, or might be again under Corbyn. Those outside government now are unlikely to have any greater prospects under any of the likely successors, so why would they destabilise Cameron? Push for other policies, possibly. Rebel on votes, yes, from time to time. But attack Cameron directly? No.
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
So you say.
My benchmark for the freedom of the press, especially for politicians, is simply publish and be damned.
A politician may seek redress in many ways should they choose to do so. We shall see if Cameron or Corbyn decide to take any action.
So you think a professional journalist should publish a claim about a politician being a paedophile based on one person's claims, without any supporting evidence or corroborating testimony?
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Were any of the stories of Corbyn's youthfull dalliances recounted only third-hand to a journalist who printed them despite "not knowing if they were true or not"?
Until then, the two are not directly comparable...
"Ashcroft is just demonstrating what a prat he is with this book. Dave is vindicated in his opinion of Ashcroft's lack of suitability for high office."
Well the wagons are certainly circling this morning! As tight as a camel's bottom in a sandstorm you might say.
I realise Tory loyalty to the tribe is something normal people will never understand but when an undone top button is considered a more heinous offense than penetrating a dead pig are you surprisd people question your values?
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
Well, Cameron is said to be worth up to £30 million, and as Blair has shown, there are big cheques outside Westminster. Cameron is not in Ashcroft's league but he can afford to lose a libel action, at least in financial terms.
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
Well, Cameron is said to be worth up to £30 million, and as Blair has shown, there are big cheques outside Westminster. Cameron is not in Ashcroft's league but he can afford to lose a libel action, at least in financial terms. Reputationally, he'd be a laughing stock win or lose.
A few days bad press, versus a years worth of publicity bubbling away pre trial, and then the intrusions into one's life that involves. A good lawyer would advise their client not to bother.
"Ashcroft is just demonstrating what a prat he is with this book. Dave is vindicated in his opinion of Ashcroft's lack of suitability for high office."
Well the wagons are certainly circling this morning! As tight as a camel's bottom in a sandstorm you might say.
I realise Tory loyalty to the tribe is something normal people will never understand but when an undone top button is considered a more heinous offense than penetrating a dead pig are you surprisd people question your values?
It's not a more heinous offence. It's just one happened and the other didn't.
Further proof Oxford is a complete dump full of thickos, whilst all the good people go to Cambridge.
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
How desperate Ashcroft,Oakeshott and Dair must be.. In their amateurish effort g to discredit Cameron they have abandoned all the principles of good journalism, made themselves look foolish and in Oakeshotts case.,probably ruined her career. Ashcroft has also committed the cardinal sin of all ..being shunned by the Establishment he craves to be a part of and also by the social circle he moves in He is now deemed to be totally untrustworthy
Oakeshott's ruined her career? She's sold an awful lot of newspapers, which might count for a lot in Fleet Street. Some Cameron loyalists will shun her? His enemies won't, and Cameron will have retired in the next year or two.
I imagine that mainstream politicians will shun her as they now know she is one of those not-to-be-trusted journalists that just prints whatever they come across without verification. But you're right, she could continue as the in-house journalist for the partisan Labour supporters that don't care about integrity as long as the Tories have been attacked. Thankfully for her, such types are now running the Labour party.
Cameron's enemies are behind him, where Conservative backbenchers outside his circle have been passed over for their rightful (as they see it) places as junior ministers and in Cabinet.
Do you have any evidence for that. Even if what you say is true - and I doubt it is in any meaningful way given that the government includes many more members than might be said to be in Cameron's 'circle' - what is there alternative? There is not some parallel machine like there was in Labour under the Blair/Brown regime, or might be again under Corbyn. Those outside government now are unlikely to have any greater prospects under any of the likely successors, so why would they destabilise Cameron? Push for other policies, possibly. Rebel on votes, yes, from time to time. But attack Cameron directly? No.
There is some evidence that an MP told a story about a pig's head and the Prime Ministerial todger.
Have I heard, or read, that Cameron can have quite short fuse? If so, how’s he going to take to Opposition MP’s shouting Oink, Oink when he walks into the Commons. Or, worse, when he stands up to answer questions.
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
If it didn't happen, how big a fee will Cameron really have. Ashcroft can't go to the courts with one man's claims.
One can easily run up a substantial 6 figure bill and never get to court. A senior partner on the clock at £500+ an hour, plus assistants on £300-400. Add in fees for counsel, and the sky's the limit
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
I suspect a prime minister has other tools at his disposal to hit back with, should he really want to go to war.
Have I heard, or read, that Cameron can have quite short fuse? If so, how’s he going to take to Opposition MP’s shouting Oink, Oink when he walks into the Commons. Or, worse, when he stands up to answer questions.
I'm sure he's getting aides to draw up some hammy pun putdowns for the occasion.
He can ignore it, but that won't stop it, or stop it being reported. He can try and laugh and joke about it, but that won't work. He can take it seriously, but that'll add credence to the claims.
He might respond by asking a dreadfully serious question of Corbyn about being friends with Hamas or wanting to ignore the wish of the Falkland Islanders.
Mr. Antifrank, that's significant. It'll get sod all coverage, of course, but there we are.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
Further proof Oxford is a complete dump full of thickos, whilst all the good people go to Cambridge.
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
Abolish interviews, certainly: it would save an awful lot of time and money to hold a lottery between all applicants with the right grades. More seriously, there might be a case for turning Oxford, Cambridge and Hull into research-only institutions, taking only postgrads. Socially, it would just mean Durham and Bristol rise a few notches up the scale.
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
So you say.
My benchmark for the freedom of the press, especially for politicians, is simply publish and be damned.
A politician may seek redress in many ways should they choose to do so. We shall see if Cameron or Corbyn decide to take any action.
So you think a professional journalist should publish a claim about a politician being a paedophile based on one person's claims, without any supporting evidence or corroborating testimony?
For such serious criminal matters I would expect a "professional journalist" to ensure their information was also available to the police so as to not to be prejudicial to any potential or on-going investigation.
Failing that the media outlet would have to assess the information and determine on publication. Freedom of the press and expression isn't diluted by difficult determinations or by the ability of those aggrieved to achieve redress.
I'm saying people (and the press) have the right to say and do things, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of them and (if I don't) that doesn't mean I want them banned.
I would not include in a biography the uncorroborated claims of a single source, without evidence, that even the author will not claim is true.
Many biographies would be mighty thin reading.
Some Conservatives need to reflect on these revelations and the freedom of expression that rightly allows them in our democracy.
PB Tories had great fun over much of Corbyn's youthful dalliances. Sauce, goose and gander spring to mind.
Corbyn's youthful dalliances were established as being true. If there is a corroborated source for the pig thing, then it's completely legitimate to publish it. But it seems like this entire story is based on one person's dinner party tale, possibly while drunk, possibly embellished, and possibly fabricated to titillate. It certainly wouldn't be the first dinner party tale to do so.
I would have thought there is grounds for libel here, but I'd like to hear from PB's lawyers. Even if there is not, clearly the standard journalistic benchmarks have now been followed, and the journalist involved is now desperately trying to downplay the story because she knows she can not back it up.
If boils down to money. Billionaire Ashcroft can afford to run up 7 figure legal costs and not blink if he loses, Cameron can't.
I suspect a prime minister has other tools at his disposal to hit back with, should he really want to go to war.
Not that it would be sensible.
I suspect he'll wait until his departure. And then drop Ashcroft in it.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
Have I heard, or read, that Cameron can have quite short fuse? If so, how’s he going to take to Opposition MP’s shouting Oink, Oink when he walks into the Commons. Or, worse, when he stands up to answer questions.
I'm sure he's getting aides to draw up some hammy pun putdowns for the occasion.
Further proof Oxford is a complete dump full of thickos, whilst all the good people go to Cambridge.
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
Abolish interviews, certainly: it would save an awful lot of time and money to hold a lottery between all applicants with the right grades. More seriously, there might be a case for turning Oxford, Cambridge and Hull into research-only institutions, taking only postgrads. Socially, it would just mean Durham and Bristol rise a few notches up the scale.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
Anybody having oral sex with a live pig would be running a far greater risk than tabloid stories.... Have you seen their teeth???
Further proof Oxford is a complete dump full of thickos, whilst all the good people go to Cambridge.
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
Abolish interviews, certainly: it would save an awful lot of time and money to hold a lottery between all applicants with the right grades. More seriously, there might be a case for turning Oxford, Cambridge and Hull into research-only institutions, taking only postgrads. Socially, it would just mean Durham and Bristol rise a few notches up the scale.
Given how many candidates can get good A Level grades just by sheer memorization, it would be very damaging to abolish interviews. The best candidates are those that are all-rounders, and demonstrate they are capable in not just academics, but also have people skills, initiative and practical experience.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
I've always assumed he was a Liberal.
JackW's just a wet Conservative in the "one nation" sense.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
''The best candidates are those that are all-rounders, and demonstrate they are capable in not just academics, but also have people skills, initiative and practical experience.''
When Oxbridge abolished their own entrance exams, they meant to help state school kids. The opposite happened.
My dons set little store by public exams. They just accepted who they wanted. Then again I did read English.
Incidentally, even casual rugby fans may be interested in tomorrow's 2.30pm kick-off. It's Scotland Vs Japan. Scotland must be favourites, but they won't be taking the Japanese lightly.
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham, even their blood is used in a scrumptious Italian chocolate cake "sanguinaccio". And anything else that can't be eaten can be turned into useful stuff. They eat anything and everything and are far more effective than spades at giving your earth a good going over.
Plus they hunt for truffles!
Honestly, they are the best of farm animals. If you are going to indulge yourself with a farm animal, choosing a pig shows excellent taste.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
Anybody having oral sex with a live pig would be running a far greater risk than tabloid stories.... Have you seen their teeth???
Pigs are omnivores. You might well go from daring young man to eunuch in short order.
"Given how many candidates can get good A Level grades just by sheer memorization, it would be very damaging to abolish interviews. The best candidates are those that are all-rounders, and demonstrate they are capable in not just academics, but also have people skills, initiative and practical experience."
One of the problems with HE seems to be that there are easy fixes for perceived problems that, if you give it a moments thought, would have severe problems. Interviews remove the advantages of candidates who can recite and picks up other skills, as said. Anyway, having been on both sides of the desk, they're the worst possible method, other than all of the others.
On a similar note, I'd argue making exams at KS4 and above harder would do much more for social mobility than almost any other measure ...
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
I've always assumed he was a Liberal.
"Whig" if you don't mind...
Just because I believe in freedom of expression doesn't mean you can publish such wicked untruths ....
Meanwhile in non-porcine news, the latest borrowing figures look disappointing.
Indeed.
Don't know why though.
Never read too much into one month's figures. It's the equivalent of poring over Scottish sub samples.
Agreed. Typically, the next month they're adjusted massively anyway.
Hence my looking for a reason they won't be revused away.
Taffys until this month they were on target. They still are, pretty much.
From what I've seen, there's a massive error bar on them on the first announcement. A few years back, in the end of year summary, a figure in the tens of billions had been removed as the accuracy of the estimate improved.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
I've always assumed he was a Liberal.
Both incorrect.
I was an Independent Coalitionista.
I now favour the GDR Side-Car Porcine Sex Party.
I think JackW is what we would call a Droll, as opposed to a Swell.
"GDR Side-Car Pig-Sticking Party" is a far more illustrative name. How do you think the Communist Elite used to hunt wild boar. Was there a White Horse in the world that would willingly carry Brezhnev, or be ridden equably by Stalin?
And, it is all class linked, Comrades, the Left have analysed and the Bulletin is published:
"Power and money are accessed through the back door, or, as it may be, the pig's mouth, and as with any kink, the eroticism isn't about the act, but about what the act symbolises. It's about humiliation, about control, about power play. What might the young swain have been thinking as he unzipped? What went through his head? If you ask me, I'll bet he was thinking: Soon. Someday soon, I will do this to the whole bloody country." http://www.newstatesman.com/2015/09/what-david-cameron-did-pig-his-party-now-doing-country
There seems to be a fallible assumption of tumescence, which - absent the stripper that Isabel hasn't invented yet - may be missing.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
I've always assumed he was a Liberal.
"Whig" if you don't mind...
I thought the Whigs were supporters of William of Orange, while JackW was a Jacobite.
Jeremy Corbyn's idea of crowdsourcing questions could be a winner.He will increase his chances by asking the public's priorities as to questions to the PM,one of which must be "are you a pig-fucker?"
How desperate Ashcroft,Oakeshott and Dair must be.. In their amateurish effort g to discredit Cameron they have abandoned all the principles of good journalism, made themselves look foolish and in Oakeshotts case.,probably ruined her career. Ashcroft has also committed the cardinal sin of all ..being shunned by the Establishment he craves to be a part of and also by the social circle he moves in He is now deemed to be totally untrustworthy
Oakeshott's ruined her career? She's sold an awful lot of newspapers, which might count for a lot in Fleet Street. Some Cameron loyalists will shun her? His enemies won't, and Cameron will have retired in the next year or two.
I imagine that mainstream politicians will shun her as they now know she is one of those not-to-be-trusted journalists that just prints whatever they come across without verification. But you're right, she could continue as the in-house journalist for the partisan Labour supporters that don't care about integrity as long as the Tories have been attacked. Thankfully for her, such types are now running the Labour party.
Cameron's enemies are behind him, where Conservative backbenchers outside his circle have been passed over for their rightful (as they see it) places as junior ministers and in Cabinet.
Do you have any evidence for that. Even if what you say is true - and I doubt it is in any meaningful way given that the government includes many more members than might be said to be in Cameron's 'circle' - what is there alternative? There is not some parallel machine like there was in Labour under the Blair/Brown regime, or might be again under Corbyn. Those outside government now are unlikely to have any greater prospects under any of the likely successors, so why would they destabilise Cameron? Push for other policies, possibly. Rebel on votes, yes, from time to time. But attack Cameron directly? No.
There is some evidence that an MP told a story about a pig's head and the Prime Ministerial todger.
But it's a jump from there to asserting that said MP (who may actually be an ex-MP anyway) was motivated to release the story by having been passed over for preferment.
Further proof Oxford is a complete dump full of thickos, whilst all the good people go to Cambridge.
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
Abolish interviews, certainly: it would save an awful lot of time and money to hold a lottery between all applicants with the right grades. More seriously, there might be a case for turning Oxford, Cambridge and Hull into research-only institutions, taking only postgrads. Socially, it would just mean Durham and Bristol rise a few notches up the scale.
Given how many candidates can get good A Level grades just by sheer memorization, it would be very damaging to abolish interviews. The best candidates are those that are all-rounders, and demonstrate they are capable in not just academics, but also have people skills, initiative and practical experience.
The best candidates will still get in somewhere. Heck, all candidates will get in somewhere. Whether interviews accurately identify the best candidates is open to doubt anyway. Exams are also flawed but at least we save time and money.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
Anybody having oral sex with a live pig would be running a far greater risk than tabloid stories.... Have you seen their teeth???
Pigs are omnivores. You might well go from daring young man to eunuch in short order.
Jeremy Corbyn's idea of crowdsourcing questions could be a winner.He will increase his chances by asking the public's priorities as to questions to the PM,one of which must be "are you a pig-fucker?"
If you and others think popping a flaccid member into a mouth constitutes a 'f*ck', there must be some very unsatisfied and deeply frustrated ladies out there.
Jeremy Corbyn's idea of crowdsourcing questions could be a winner.He will increase his chances by asking the public's priorities as to questions to the PM,one of which must be "are you a pig-fucker?"
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham,
I was going to have mushroom soup for lunch but after reading this visions of bacon butties are dancing before my eyes. This d*mn scandal is going to put lbs on me at this rate.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
What smears has Corbyn faced? Plenty of negative spin on things he's said and done, but most of the stuff there's proof he said the things accused of, even if it is spun. And are they about how he's a pervert, as it's the Cameron stuff?
Plenty of Tories joined in the bacon gags in the past few days, it's all good fun.
Smears, negative spin, all the same.
I can't stick Corbyn but he's been fair game for weeks, now the tories that were dishing it out are whining like little girls.
Who are these PB tories that are whining about this? I am a classic Liberal Conservative who is not moaning about it. Please name them.
Have a read through and decide for yourself, I'm not getting into personal rows I'm too busy enjoying myself at Cameron's expense.
JackW is not moaning or whining about it and i think he is a Conservative.
I've always assumed he was a Liberal.
"Whig" if you don't mind...
I thought the Whigs were supporters of William of Orange, while JackW was a Jacobite.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Middle aged lower class Scots seem most likely to hold a grudge it seems..
Those poll findings have got to be disappointing for The Good Lord....
Cameron's becoming a bit like Teflon Tony!
"Non-Stick Cam" has a nice ring, LOL!
Perhaps a YG poll on LA himself ? Or perhaps one for Labour supporters - "which of the following events would you prefer ? a) A Labour GE victory or b) A book bashing the posh PM regarding posh activities with other poshos at a posho Uni ?
I was always rubbish at exams but good at interviews. More front than Brighton or something!
Mr Pulpstar’s point is a good one. The question that came to my mind when I heard the story was “Why would anyone go to the trouble of inventing such a system and incorporating it into a vehicle?” Espeially when they appear to have originated in a country which has, and has had for many years, such stringent laws over the content of, and production methods for, beer and sausages.
A few years ago the pharmaceutical industry got itself into awful trouble for trying to cover up unsatisfactory results, but no-one (AFAIR anyway, at least on a large scale) actually tried to fix the system so that they got good results. The data might be presented slewed but I don’t recall “fixing” of this sort.
Could we have a thread about internal Labour party mechanics about how the left-wing membership could cement their power and how the PLP could fight it?
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No.
A photo would be illegal. The act is legal. There might be a tenable "it was not intercourse because..." defence - maybe.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 63Possession of extreme pornographic images (1)It is an offence for a person to be in possession of an extreme pornographic image. .. (7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following— ... (d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive)
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
Could we have a thread about internal Labour party mechanics about how the left-wing membership could cement their power and how the PLP could fight it?
Cross-post this one from Labout Uncut as a starter?
This is not a prediction. Things will happen at different speeds, and perhaps some will not happen at all. But, according to well-travelled historical precedent, the following is what generally happens in this party, when it develops a critical mass from the far left, as it did in the 1980s; it is essentially the manner of warring factions and coups on which the SWP runs. It is effectively what is happening now within Labour.
One. Corbyn is not a leader. The people around Corbyn now hold the power, he does not. The kitchen cabinet. They are likely to start to agitate early on, in terms of policy and running the party machine. When we talk about the leadership, we therefore mean the leader’s Office, trusted hard-left MPs inside and outside the shadow cabinet, selected members of the NEC and the main trade union leaders, particularly Unite. These people will collectively call the shots, not Corbyn.
The Ken Livignstone clique around Corbyn is part of One.
Jeremy Corbyn's idea of crowdsourcing questions could be a winner.He will increase his chances by asking the public's priorities as to questions to the PM,one of which must be "are you a pig-fucker?"
Corbyn will look a fool doing that. It makes it easy for the PM to bat him away as being unserious and concerned with froth.
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham,
I was going to have mushroom soup for lunch but after reading this visions of bacon butties are dancing before my eyes. This d*mn scandal is going to put lbs on me at this rate.
If you are going to indulge yourself with a farm animal, choosing a pig shows excellent taste.
I always thought that the sheep was the target of choice for amorous, animalistic encounters, thus the phrase "sheep-sh*gger"
I like sheep too. Roast lamb is quite delicious. As is lamb couscous. I prefer shepherds though. Gabriel Oak can come and sweep me off to his little hut surrounded by sheep and intelligent dogs any time he likes.
Bacon butties on toasted white rolls are the best. One needs the energy after all that exercise on the Cumbrian fells.
Middle aged lower class Scots seem most likely to hold a grudge it seems..
Those poll findings have got to be disappointing for The Good Lord....
Cameron's becoming a bit like Teflon Tony!
"Non-Stick Cam" has a nice ring, LOL!
Perhaps a YG poll on LA himself ? Or perhaps one for Labour supporters - "which of the following events would you prefer ? a) A Labour GE victory or b) A book bashing the posh PM regarding posh activities with other poshos at a posho Uni ?
Or 'Is LA a positive influence on politics in the UK?'
Incidentally, even casual rugby fans may be interested in tomorrow's 2.30pm kick-off. It's Scotland Vs Japan. Scotland must be favourites, but they won't be taking the Japanese lightly.
Having watched SA vs Japan, I see no reason why Scotland should be favourites, world rankings not withstanding. Japan's only weak spot seemed to be a slightly leaky defence, though not one prone to giving penalties. However, I'm not sure that Scotland has the cutting edge to make the most of it. And any team that can knock 30+ points past the Boks has to have a strong chance against the Scots, even allowing for the quick turnaround between games. I think I'd be backing Japan at odds-against.
Middle aged lower class Scots seem most likely to hold a grudge it seems..
Those poll findings have got to be disappointing for The Good Lord....
Cameron's becoming a bit like Teflon Tony!
"Non-Stick Cam" has a nice ring, LOL!
Perhaps a YG poll on LA himself ? Or perhaps one for Labour supporters - "which of the following events would you prefer ? a) A Labour GE victory or b) A book bashing the posh PM regarding posh activities with other poshos at a posho Uni ?
Or 'Is LA a positive influence on politics in the UK?'
Who would have made a better foreign secretary - LA or David Miliband ?
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
I'm not saying it is an excuse, it is however the reality, It's like the banks caught cheating, subsidised and the offenders are still there.
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
On the general subject of libel, some serious reform would be nice. I've both been accused of libel (In my opinion falsely) and (similarly IMO) libelled, and chose in both cases to apologise/not follow up because I was concerned about the financial implications. I can absolutely see that we don't want endless court cases taking hundreds of hours of time as people sue each other over trivia. But perhaps a Small Claims Court option to test facts, with a fixed fee and maximum damages of say £500 would be useful. Held under normal SCC rules (which I think are no barristers, one judge), the purpose would be to get a ruling on the apparent truth or falsity of the allegation, which is probably what matters most to people in most cases.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
I'm not saying it is an excuse, it is however the reality, It's like the banks caught cheating, subsidised and the offenders are still there.
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
Nor should they. They should target the individuals responsible, not the employees and not (excessively) shareholders. If a fraud has been committed then those who did it should be in prison and benefits accrued by that fraud sequestrated. Those whose neglect allowed it should also face a lesser but still meaningful sanction.
The Tories said on Monday that they had decided to adopt a position of neutrality during the upcoming EU referendum campaign.
The decision means that In or Out campaigners will not be able to call on the resources of the Conservative party, such as its valuable lists of activists' names and addresses.
@tnewtondunn: Posh bloke gets on horse shock. Day 2 of Ashcroft book in Mail is bit thin and chippier than Day 1. Smells even more like vengeful malice.
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham,
I was going to have mushroom soup for lunch but after reading this visions of bacon butties are dancing before my eyes. This d*mn scandal is going to put lbs on me at this rate.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
I'm not saying it is an excuse, it is however the reality, It's like the banks caught cheating, subsidised and the offenders are still there.
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
Nor should they. They should target the individuals responsible, not the employees and not (excessively) shareholders. If a fraud has been committed then those who did it should be in prison and benefits accrued by that fraud sequestrated. Those whose neglect allowed it should also face a lesser but still meaningful sanction.
I don't have an issue with punishing the offenders, it should be done. However we are where we are.
The law says emissions should be X and they're bigger than X, you won't change the whole industry over to the correct standard within 24 hours. or 24 days, you might just scrape 24 months.
And then we come to the issue of the offenders most of whom are senior business figures how many do you think will go to jail ? They'll be Fred Goodwinned - retired to fat pensions.
@tnewtondunn: Posh bloke gets on horse shock. Day 2 of Ashcroft book in Mail is bit thin and chippier than Day 1. Smells even more like vengeful malice.
Don't agree. Look at the comments from Lord Richards regarding Cameron and Syria/Libya. Not good at all.
Newspapers always try and pour cold water on their rivals' scoops.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
I'm not saying it is an excuse, it is however the reality, It's like the banks caught cheating, subsidised and the offenders are still there.
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
The car manufacturers will get massive fines. What governments should not do is use fines as a form of protectionism for their own domestic industries.
There's no way in the current climate that politicians will reduce the environmental limits, especially now at least one manufacturer has been caught cheating on them.
And it is the sheer scale of the cheating that's amazing. This isn't like the MPG fiddling scandal; this is blatant and cleverly engineered cheating. I'm utterly appalled, yet wryly admire their gall.
IMO, the best serialisation was Tracey Temple's diaries - they were hilarious every day. Just so much Ewwww. And her giddy delight recording each event. She sounded like a school girl who'd bagged the head boy.
@tnewtondunn: Posh bloke gets on horse shock. Day 2 of Ashcroft book in Mail is bit thin and chippier than Day 1. Smells even more like vengeful malice.
I like sheep too. Roast lamb is quite delicious. As is lamb couscous. I prefer shepherds though. Gabriel Oak can come and sweep me off to his little hut surrounded by sheep and intelligent dogs any time he likes.
We had roast lamb last week for Sunday dinner with enough left over for lamb rogan-josh the following night. Now that No. 1 daughter has flown the nest we seem to have surpluses these days. On a side note, after her departure, our water bill decreased by just over £10 per month.
I am not sure which version of Gabriel Oak you mean but somehow I suspect it makes little difference
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
Well maybe.
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Sorry, but that's no excuse for them. They've been caught lying to consumers in a massive way and they should be punished for it. Like it or not, MPG and environmental figures matter to consumers and have taken a greater importance as a differentiator given that most cars of the same type are much of a muchness.
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
I'm not saying it is an excuse, it is however the reality, It's like the banks caught cheating, subsidised and the offenders are still there.
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
Given that German brands make 5 million + out of 12 million cars pa in Europe, I don't see Ma Merkel allowing a huge amount of punishment.
Or is the EU regulator for this genuinely independent?
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
Nor should they. They should target the individuals responsible, not the employees and not (excessively) shareholders. If a fraud has been committed then those who did it should be in prison and benefits accrued by that fraud sequestrated. Those whose neglect allowed it should also face a lesser but still meaningful sanction.
That's a nice idea, except this was a thoroughly engineered fraud, and was much greater than a few people in a marketing department lying. Many, many people in the organisation would have known about this (probably most of the people in the diesel engine design departments), and many would have had to sign it off. This is not the work of one or two rogue employees like GM's ignition lock scandal of a couple of years ago.
Worse, it makes their engineers look very intellectually dishonest. Before I gave up work I was often asked to produce measurements for customers; I never gave false or misleading figures, even when pressured, and fought marketeers who wanted to misrepresent figures.
In fact, I started dating Mrs J whilst in just such a situation. Instead of fiddling the figures, the company took a slight financial hit by decreasing yield to ensure we met the figures we had promised the customer. But that's enough about Adjacent Channel Rejection.
If VW's engineers are this intellectually dishonest, how can we trust anything else they produce?
Comments
If so, that's bad for Ferrari (I think the Mercedes has a better chassis). Verstappen was pretty damned racy earlier in the year in the wet (I forget where, but he was very impressive).
"Ashcroft is just demonstrating what a prat he is with this book. Dave is vindicated in his opinion of Ashcroft's lack of suitability for high office."
Well the wagons are certainly circling this morning! As tight as a camel's bottom in a sandstorm you might say.
I realise Tory loyalty to the tribe is something normal people will never understand but when an undone top button is considered a more heinous offense than penetrating a dead pig are you surprisd people question your values?
Remember this is from a professor of modern history at Oxford University and a fellow of St Hilda’s College
Let’s turn Oxbridge into a comprehensive. If universities want to increase opportunities for women and working class and BME people, they should think about abolishing selection criteria.
......And, to ensure the system is properly funded, and to encourage mature students and those from working-class backgrounds, we’ll need more cash from taxpayers – a return to paying student grants and fees from the public purse.
Jeremy Corbyn’s huge mandate suggests there is a lot of support for this.
http://bit.ly/1WfcAYv
Not that it would be sensible.
Is it all going sour for Boy George?
Oakeshot claims to have heard the story. That has not been corroborated either.
He can ignore it, but that won't stop it, or stop it being reported. He can try and laugh and joke about it, but that won't work. He can take it seriously, but that'll add credence to the claims.
He might respond by asking a dreadfully serious question of Corbyn about being friends with Hamas or wanting to ignore the wish of the Falkland Islanders.
Mr. Antifrank, that's significant. It'll get sod all coverage, of course, but there we are.
Failing that the media outlet would have to assess the information and determine on publication. Freedom of the press and expression isn't diluted by difficult determinations or by the ability of those aggrieved to achieve redress.
@LadPolitics: Ladbrokes: Odds of Cameron quitting as PM this year cut from 50/1 to 25/1.
http://t.co/tXartAFP5X http://t.co/JqoK1VwBnK
Another disappointing deficit performance by Osbrowne.
Don't know why though.
Ashcroft's book will last a week.
After that, we will move on to something else.
They're the most robust bits.
Typically, the next month they're adjusted massively anyway.
As a person that got into cambridge from a welsh comprehensive, I think interviews are one of the best ways to show your potential.
Public schools are great at churning out kids with superb grades.
I was an Independent Coalitionista.
I now favour the GDR Side-Car Porcine Sex Party.
When Oxbridge abolished their own entrance exams, they meant to help state school kids. The opposite happened.
My dons set little store by public exams. They just accepted who they wanted. Then again I did read English.
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham, even their blood is used in a scrumptious Italian chocolate cake "sanguinaccio". And anything else that can't be eaten can be turned into useful stuff. They eat anything and everything and are far more effective than spades at giving your earth a good going over.
Plus they hunt for truffles!
Honestly, they are the best of farm animals. If you are going to indulge yourself with a farm animal, choosing a pig shows excellent taste.
The pattern always seems to be worst case scenario first. Nevertheless 4.4bn below last years number after 5 months is not that impressive.
Osborne's real target for achieving a balanced budget????
The twelfth of never.
Taffys until this month they were on target. They still are, pretty much.
One of the problems with HE seems to be that there are easy fixes for perceived problems that, if you give it a moments thought, would have severe problems. Interviews remove the advantages of candidates who can recite and picks up other skills, as said. Anyway, having been on both sides of the desk, they're the worst possible method, other than all of the others.
On a similar note, I'd argue making exams at KS4 and above harder would do much more for social mobility than almost any other measure ...
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/09/21/david-cameron-result/
Middle aged lower class Scots seem most likely to hold a grudge it seems..
Ooppps ....
"GDR Side-Car Pig-Sticking Party" is a far more illustrative name. How do you think the Communist Elite used to hunt wild boar. Was there a White Horse in the world that would willingly carry Brezhnev, or be ridden equably by Stalin?
And, it is all class linked, Comrades, the Left have analysed and the Bulletin is published:
"Power and money are accessed through the back door, or, as it may be, the pig's mouth, and as with any kink, the eroticism isn't about the act, but about what the act symbolises. It's about humiliation, about control, about power play. What might the young swain have been thinking as he unzipped? What went through his head? If you ask me, I'll bet he was thinking: Soon. Someday soon, I will do this to the whole bloody country."
http://www.newstatesman.com/2015/09/what-david-cameron-did-pig-his-party-now-doing-country
There seems to be a fallible assumption of tumescence, which - absent the stripper that Isabel hasn't invented yet - may be missing.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
I shall ring my droll buffonery bells at you and steal your excellent phrase :
GDR Side-Car Pig Sticking Party.
Galloway and Lutfur will still be barred.
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/pregastric/pigpage.html
I always thought that the sheep was the target of choice for amorous, animalistic encounters, thus the phrase "sheep-sh*gger"
I'm not dead quite yet thank you very much !!
But if all car manufacturers are in the shit on hitting an emissions target plucked out of politicians bums what are politicans going to do - ban selling cars altogether ?
Can't see it myself and certainly not with the french germans and japanese.
Cameron's becoming a bit like Teflon Tony!
"Non-Stick Cam" has a nice ring, LOL!
are they all at it ?
Mr Pulpstar’s point is a good one. The question that came to my mind when I heard the story was “Why would anyone go to the trouble of inventing such a system and incorporating it into a vehicle?” Espeially when they appear to have originated in a country which has, and has had for many years, such stringent laws over the content of, and production methods for, beer and sausages.
A few years ago the pharmaceutical industry got itself into awful trouble for trying to cover up unsatisfactory results, but no-one (AFAIR anyway, at least on a large scale) actually tried to fix the system so that they got good results. The data might be presented slewed but I don’t recall “fixing” of this sort.
A photo would be illegal. The act is legal. There might be a tenable "it was not intercourse because..." defence - maybe. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/63
'Tis the moral authoritarian obsession with appearance, and is why I think Harriet Harman and her friends are significantly deranged.
Can we have HH the other way?
You can have a photo of Harriet Harman, but the real living, talking thing is a Criminal Offence?
This is on top of the MPG shenanigans various manufacturers have been caught lying about.
Since the manufacturers have proved themselves repeatedly untrustworthy on a whole host of matters, important statistics such as MPG and emissions figures should be taken totally out of their hands and into a separate organisation.
Looking-glass Labour: what happens next
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/09/16/looking-glass-labour-what-happens-next/ The Ken Livignstone clique around Corbyn is part of One.
Bacon butties on toasted white rolls are the best. One needs the energy after all that exercise on the Cumbrian fells.
How ironic that Ashcroft's revenge may have been scuppered by Harriet Harman
I just can't see politicians stopping the livelihood of over 10 million europeans, they'll make a hooha and tutting noises but basically cobble together some fudge which keeps the whole show on the road.
A leisure centre.....
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jan/13/germany.automotive
"Bribery, brothels, free Viagra: VW trial scandalises Germany"
The law says emissions should be X and they're bigger than X, you won't change the whole industry over to the correct standard within 24 hours. or 24 days, you might just scrape 24 months.
And then we come to the issue of the offenders most of whom are senior business figures how many do you think will go to jail ? They'll be Fred Goodwinned - retired to fat pensions.
Newspapers always try and pour cold water on their rivals' scoops.
There's no way in the current climate that politicians will reduce the environmental limits, especially now at least one manufacturer has been caught cheating on them.
And it is the sheer scale of the cheating that's amazing. This isn't like the MPG fiddling scandal; this is blatant and cleverly engineered cheating. I'm utterly appalled, yet wryly admire their gall.
I am not sure which version of Gabriel Oak you mean but somehow I suspect it makes little difference
Or is the EU regulator for this genuinely independent?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/scott-walkers-own-limitations-did-him-in/article/2572552
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
#AskingForAFriend
Worse, it makes their engineers look very intellectually dishonest. Before I gave up work I was often asked to produce measurements for customers; I never gave false or misleading figures, even when pressured, and fought marketeers who wanted to misrepresent figures.
In fact, I started dating Mrs J whilst in just such a situation. Instead of fiddling the figures, the company took a slight financial hit by decreasing yield to ensure we met the figures we had promised the customer. But that's enough about Adjacent Channel Rejection.
If VW's engineers are this intellectually dishonest, how can we trust anything else they produce?