The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
So it's a mistake when Tories bash Labour for being in hock to the trade unions?
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
The line from a song that comes to my mind over the last day or so from the Tories reaction on here to the 'scandal' is from the smiths 'hand in glove'
'No it's not like any other love, this one is different because it's us'
Always loved that understanding that everyone thinks 'their' feelings are unique, special and superior
Hmm it's not just Tories who avoid tax you know.. Ed Miliband, Blair, Benn , The Guardian.. etc..
People who don't try and avoid tax are complete idiots
Not true - as always it's a question of degree.
ISAs and pensions are one thing.
But in general, we've always adopted the principle that that, as a family, we only succeed when the community that supports us flourishes. Tax is one way of putting money back into the system; philanthropy is the other.
"Slovakia has so far offered to take 200 refugees, preferably Christians"
In 2011 the Czech President said “Calling someone a moderate Muslim is like calling someone a moderate Nazi”
Whilst obviously strongly disagreeing with the second, neither will encourage Muslim migrants to want to settle in Slovakia or Czech Republic so may be quite well received locally: the opposite of Merkel's message (now withdrawn after damage is done)
IMO, the best serialisation was Tracey Temple's diaries - they were hilarious every day. Just so much Ewwww. And her giddy delight recording each event. She sounded like a school girl who'd bagged the head boy.
@tnewtondunn: Posh bloke gets on horse shock. Day 2 of Ashcroft book in Mail is bit thin and chippier than Day 1. Smells even more like vengeful malice.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
Oakeshotts career as a Journalist is completely stuffed... what serious editor in the future would print anything she says..Ashcroft will have certainly lost the respect of the people he craves to be accepted by..Dacre will probably lose his paper a shed load of dosh ... If I were Cameron I would sue ..all three of them..
Mr. Herdson, Scotland are more consistent in their performances. But, Japan were around 13/5 to win, so if you think they're in with a shot, those are good odds.
Now I come to think of it, I might have a look at that myself...
Mr. Ghedebrav, I like Herodotus' anecdote about the silver thief and the Pharaoh as much as anyone else, but Thucydides wrote history, rather than a collection of myths with some facts occasionally included.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
LOL, the frothers on here have some mixed up views on things in general, just stick to TORY = Great , Labour/SNP = VERY BAD and you will not be far off
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
It's not about votes - that was the point I was making in the original post. As you say, voters won't care. However, it's important for Cameron in Westminster not to be perceived to be lying - politicians will shrug off evasions and half-truths, but not what they believe to be a straight lie - since it affects things like "trust me over the referendum".
Oakeshotts career as a Journalist is completely stuffed... what serious editor in the future would print anything she says..Ashcroft will have certainly lost the respect of the people he craves to be accepted by..Dacre will probably lose his paper a shed load of dosh ... If I were Cameron I would sue ..all three of them..
Let it all out Mr Dodd.
How dare anybody do something that doesn't endorse the Conservative Party
(snip) I also understand that Cameron is in South Africa, why? Osborne is in China busy getting a new nuclear power station. Very good timing from both when the brown stuff encounters the air circulating system and straight out of the Yes Prime minister script book. It looks like they knew what was coming and that it's happening at the same time as the LibDem conference is just a lucky coincidence. (snip)
That conspiracy theory suggests that they had long-standing prior knowledge that the story was coming out. Much more likely that Ashcroft and the Mail timed it like this: after the Labour leadership election and before the important party conferences (sorry, Lib Dems!) that might drown out the story.
If you want to make such claims really difficult for the target, it'd be good to time it for when they're out of the country. They have less access to advisers and the media, and it evidently looks to some as if they are running.
If you have evidence that these trips are hastily-planned affairs you might start to have a point. But this is a good time for such foreign trips as parliament is not ssitting.
I think my point was that most of the cogniti on this site know that the visits are planned well in advance and to have the 2 most important members r of the Government a few thousand miles away seems rather interesting (by the way, who is left in charge?) and just what is Cameron doing in SA?
Why is it 'rather interesting', unless you mean it in a pathetic nudge-nudge wink-wink manner?
Time for you to get a tinfoil hat methinks.
For a supposed NON Tory , you don't half jump to their defence on every little point ???
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
Ah yes, silly me. Do the Lib Dems still count?
All 8 of them.
The most interesting thing about this book (so far) is that it makes a new vote on air strikes on Syria less likely.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs, Ashcroft deliberately released these claims now so they wouldn't damage the Tories or help Labour, just damage the PM. Hell hath no fury like a donor scorned.
I've a strong feeling that this set of stories will be long forgotten by the time anyone really concentrates on the next Tory leader and hence will have no or minimal effect on the race. And as Mike says, there is a very good chance that the next leader may not even be in the frame currently.
And would it be truly damaging for Cameron if it turns out he knew about the non-dom status earlier? Do the public really care? Maybe they do, but I'd be surprised if it were truly on the public's radar screen beyond the politically obsessed like us.
To me, all it seems the Tories need to do for the next 4+ years is govern competently and all this will not impact them one jot. Barring events, the Europe referendum is the only real threat to them at the moment.
I cannot see the non-Dom business being significant. It is simply too obscure to gain real traction.
Ashcroft is just demonstrating what a prat he is with this book. Dave is vindicated in his opinion of Ashcroft's lack of suitability for high office.
It merely confirms what everybody already knows, these rich toffs help their chums avoid tax where they can and get help in return. It was always thus, they try to keep as much of the loot in their small circle as possible. Everyone knows they are lying conniving cheating nomarks.
Hmm it's not just Tories who avoid tax you know.. Ed Miliband, Blair, Benn , The Guardian.. etc..
Very true , I should have lumped in Labour and Libdems , all cheeks of the same arse , though Tories are the champions
(snip) I also understand that Cameron is in South Africa, why? Osborne is in China busy getting a new nuclear power station. Very good timing from both when the brown stuff encounters the air circulating system and straight out of the Yes Prime minister script book. It looks like they knew what was coming and that it's happening at the same time as the LibDem conference is just a lucky coincidence. (snip)
That conspiracy theory suggests that they had long-standing prior knowledge that the story was coming out. Much more likely that Ashcroft and the Mail timed it like this: after the Labour leadership election and before the important party conferences (sorry, Lib Dems!) that might drown out the story.
If you want to make such claims really difficult for the target, it'd be good to time it for when they're out of the country. They have less access to advisers and the media, and it evidently looks to some as if they are running.
If you have evidence that these trips are hastily-planned affairs you might start to have a point. But this is a good time for such foreign trips as parliament is not ssitting.
I think my point was that most of the cogniti on this site know that the visits are planned well in advance and to have the 2 most important members r of the Government a few thousand miles away seems rather interesting (by the way, who is left in charge?) and just what is Cameron doing in SA?
Why is it 'rather interesting', unless you mean it in a pathetic nudge-nudge wink-wink manner?
Time for you to get a tinfoil hat methinks.
For a supposed NON Tory , you don't half jump to their defence on every little point ???
For a supposed REAL person, you don't half sound like a poorly-programmed ELIZA.
(To address your rather weak point, I've also jumped to the defence of Labour and Lib Dems in the past as well).
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Until the turn of the millennium Germany allowed bribes to written off against corporation tax. Kind of tells us what we need to know about German industry.
I hope this marks the start of people questioning the "greatness" of German engineering. They have a weak currency and they cheat and bribe their way into big contracts.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
LA tax status shifted as many votes as Eck's taxpayer funded trousers.
Mr. G, as I said, I think Scotland are favourites, but in a two horse race 5/1 for something I reckon is around 2/1 is good value. Well, in my judgement, but that's what this betting business is about.
Nor should they. They should target the individuals responsible, not the employees and not (excessively) shareholders. If a fraud has been committed then those who did it should be in prison and benefits accrued by that fraud sequestrated. Those whose neglect allowed it should also face a lesser but still meaningful sanction.
That's a nice idea, except this was a thoroughly engineered fraud, and was much greater than a few people in a marketing department lying. Many, many people in the organisation would have known about this (probably most of the people in the diesel engine design departments), and many would have had to sign it off. This is not the work of one or two rogue employees like GM's ignition lock scandal of a couple of years ago.
Worse, it makes their engineers look very intellectually dishonest. Before I gave up work I was often asked to produce measurements for customers; I never gave false or misleading figures, even when pressured, and fought marketeers who wanted to misrepresent figures.
In fact, I started dating Mrs J whilst in just such a situation. Instead of fiddling the figures, the company took a slight financial hit by decreasing yield to ensure we met the figures we had promised the customer. But that's enough about Adjacent Channel Rejection.
If VW's engineers are this intellectually dishonest, how can we trust anything else they produce?
But for that reason, if a clear-out is needed then a clear-out is needed.
It's a bit like these market-fixing scandals in banking. There has to be a change of culture. How wide the associated change of personnel need be is a more open question but clearly has to include those most responsible for carrying it out and those who either gave a nod and a wink (or more) beforehand, or turned a blind eye after the event.
But levying huge fines is, to my mind, the wrong answer. In any case, causing massive disruption to the design and other functions will of itself be financially damaging.
Until the turn of the millennium Germany allowed bribes to written off against corporation tax. Kind of tells us what we need to know about German industry.
I hope this marks the start of people questioning the "greatness" of German engineering. They have a weak currency and they cheat and bribe their way into big contracts.
If Jeremy Corbyn were astute, he might echo the sentiments of this tweet:
@Wiseworlduk: Remembering the 11 #RoyalMarine bandsmen killed #OTD in 1989 at the RM School of Music in Deal. We won't forget you. http://t.co/H5yWAoMLXg
Hmm it's not just Tories who avoid tax you know.. Ed Miliband, Blair, Benn , The Guardian.. etc..
People who don't try and avoid tax are complete idiots
Not true - as always it's a question of degree.
ISAs and pensions are one thing.
But in general, we've always adopted the principle that that, as a family, we only succeed when the community that supports us flourishes. Tax is one way of putting money back into the system; philanthropy is the other.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
Ah yes, silly me. Do the Lib Dems still count?
Amazed that their conference is still going on, its day 4!
Until the turn of the millennium Germany allowed bribes to written off against corporation tax. Kind of tells us what we need to know about German industry.
I hope this marks the start of people questioning the "greatness" of German engineering. They have a weak currency and they cheat and bribe their way into big contracts.
Having seen some up close, the internal dynamics in some of these large Schwabian companies are "interesting" - large families dominating and strict hierarchical management structures don't always lead to bad news filtering upwards.
So Ashcroft is doing this to queer the pitch for any future public school chums to take the leadership, right? The self-made billionaire isn't keen on the 'born-with-a-silver-spoon' wing of the party, is he?
Mr. G, as I said, I think Scotland are favourites, but in a two horse race 5/1 for something I reckon is around 2/1 is good value. Well, in my judgement, but that's what this betting business is about.
MD , a good bet tonight is Rangers at 5/6 to beat St Johnstone in league Cup.
If Jeremy Corbyn were astute, he might echo the sentiments of this tweet:
@Wiseworlduk: Remembering the 11 #RoyalMarine bandsmen killed #OTD in 1989 at the RM School of Music in Deal. We won't forget you. http://t.co/H5yWAoMLXg
I'm not holding my breath.
Should he publically acknowledge the date of every atrocity in modern history? It's not a particularly big anniversary or anything.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
Ah yes, silly me. Do the Lib Dems still count?
Amazed that their conference is still going on, its day 4!
Hard to imagine what 8 of them and Willie Rennie can talk about for 4 days.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Ah, Malky emerges drooling from another Brasso fuelled stupor.
Oh well. I am going to speak up for pigs: they are wonderfully intelligent and lovely animals. Every part of them can be used to make delicious food: chops, bacon, ham,
I was going to have mushroom soup for lunch but after reading this visions of bacon butties are dancing before my eyes. This d*mn scandal is going to put lbs on me at this rate.
If you are going to indulge yourself with a farm animal, choosing a pig shows excellent taste.
I always thought that the sheep was the target of choice for amorous, animalistic encounters, thus the phrase "sheep-sh*gger"
I would imagine that's whilst alive. I'd like to see anyone trying anything with a live pig. If your taste runs more to the deceased, the animal kingdom is your oyster!
Clarification: I wouldn't *actually* like to see it - figure of speech.
Mr. Ghedebrav, I like Herodotus' anecdote about the silver thief and the Pharaoh as much as anyone else, but Thucydides wrote history, rather than a collection of myths with some facts occasionally included.
True. But I enjoy the myths and nonsense in Herodotus. I'm an archaeologist by training so don't really set great store by the accuracy of ancient history (or 'great man' history in general), beyond providing some nice background colour.
But with Herodotus and Thucydides, really it's a bit like comparing Hawks and Ford. They're just different.
If Jeremy Corbyn were astute, he might echo the sentiments of this tweet:
@Wiseworlduk: Remembering the 11 #RoyalMarine bandsmen killed #OTD in 1989 at the RM School of Music in Deal. We won't forget you. http://t.co/H5yWAoMLXg
I'm not holding my breath.
Should he publically acknowledge the date of every atrocity in modern history? It's not a particularly big anniversary or anything.
He doesn't have to, no. He has been willing to remember other past atrocities. In his new role, he could try out the concept of remembering one suffered by this nation.
Blackburn 63..Nothing at all to do with endorsing the Conservative party.... it is about unfounded allegation, which hey admit.. that have been printed with the express purpose of damaging the person who just happens to be the Prime Minister..It is rank bad journalism and extremely embarrassing to what would appear to be an innocent party..they should all Be sued..
Until the turn of the millennium Germany allowed bribes to written off against corporation tax. Kind of tells us what we need to know about German industry.
I hope this marks the start of people questioning the "greatness" of German engineering. They have a weak currency and they cheat and bribe their way into big contracts.
The non-dom question is the potential nasty one, though, as it was discussed in such detail that the possibility that Cameron slipped up by accident is slim. I don't think he can afford to be thought to have deliberately lied, even outside Westminster, and he'd probably prefer that we were discussing pigs.
Nah, it's a process story.
Voters assume - so far as they think about it - that Tories are funded by dodgy billionaires and hedge funds, while Labour is in hock to the unions.
And they don't really care. Whether or not Ashcroft donated when he was a dom or a non-dom of hanging upside down from a lamppost scratching his arse doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
It was a mistake for Labour and the SNP to make this their attack line yesterday. It will win precisely zero votes in the real world.
I disagree. This is a line which can unite the Labour party. Right now that's not to be sneezed at.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
No PMQs this week or for the next three weeks. It's Conference season.
Ah yes, silly me. Do the Lib Dems still count?
Amazed that their conference is still going on, its day 4!
On the general subject of libel, some serious reform would be nice. I've both been accused of libel (In my opinion falsely) and (similarly IMO) libelled, and chose in both cases to apologise/not follow up because I was concerned about the financial implications. I can absolutely see that we don't want endless court cases taking hundreds of hours of time as people sue each other over trivia. But perhaps a Small Claims Court option to test facts, with a fixed fee and maximum damages of say £500 would be useful. Held under normal SCC rules (which I think are no barristers, one judge), the purpose would be to get a ruling on the apparent truth or falsity of the allegation, which is probably what matters most to people in most cases.
I agree with the thrust of that. The big question which no-one ever seems to ask is why in heaven's name are libel cases in particular (although the same is true in many other cases) so ludicrously expensive? Basically the legal profession is out of control and the courts are absolutely feeble at containing costs, despite saying that they do care about efficiency.
Mr. G, as I said, I think Scotland are favourites, but in a two horse race 5/1 for something I reckon is around 2/1 is good value. Well, in my judgement, but that's what this betting business is about.
MD , a good bet tonight is Rangers at 5/6 to beat St Johnstone in league Cup.
Depends which Rangers turn up - some indication that teams have "worked us out" in the last couple of games - also ticket sales aren't great apparently.
Might be tempted to back em at better odds with St J -1 or -2..
''The big question which no-one ever seems to ask is why in heaven's name are libel cases in particular (although the same is true in many other cases) so ludicrously expensive?''
If Jeremy Corbyn were astute, he might echo the sentiments of this tweet:
@Wiseworlduk: Remembering the 11 #RoyalMarine bandsmen killed #OTD in 1989 at the RM School of Music in Deal. We won't forget you. http://t.co/H5yWAoMLXg
I'm not holding my breath.
Should he publically acknowledge the date of every atrocity in modern history? It's not a particularly big anniversary or anything.
Its a big anniversary in Deal, bandsmen were murdered by the IRA.
Mr. Ghedebrav, I rather like 'great man' history, as you phrase it
But then, the site might already know that.
It's one of the reasons the Diadochi Wars are such fun. The king of all alpha wolves dies, and suddenly there's about a dozen men all of whom are intelligent, fearless and ruthless having perpetual warfare (sometimes cold, sometimes hot) for decades.
It'd be akin to Cameron and Osborne both retiring tomorrow. Suddenly the Conservatives would be in a frenzy.
So just to clear this up, Labour people smear Corbyn and it proves he's useless and dividing the party. The same happens to Cameron and the dissenters should be ashamed of themselves.
LOL, the frothers on here have some mixed up views on things in general, just stick to TORY = Great , Labour/SNP = VERY BAD and you will not be far off
I think you'll find it's SNP=THE DEVIL, thank you very much.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Ah, Malky emerges drooling from another Brasso fuelled stupor.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Ah, Malky emerges drooling from another Brasso fuelled stupor.
Fortunately, you don't count.
Consistently poor as we expect from you.
Malcolmg what are your expectations of the final seat allocation in the Scottish assembly next year by party?
Mr. G, as I said, I think Scotland are favourites, but in a two horse race 5/1 for something I reckon is around 2/1 is good value. Well, in my judgement, but that's what this betting business is about.
MD , a good bet tonight is Rangers at 5/6 to beat St Johnstone in league Cup.
Depends which Rangers turn up - some indication that teams have "worked us out" in the last couple of games - also ticket sales aren't great apparently.
Might be tempted to back em at better odds with St J -1 or -2..
Bit of concern with a few balls catching defence a bit flat but in most games they have looked good and winning even when not playing so good. Be good to see how far they have really come.
Blackburn 63..Nothing at all to do with endorsing the Conservative party.... it is about unfounded allegation, which hey admit.. that have been printed with the express purpose of damaging the person who just happens to be the Prime Minister..It is rank bad journalism and extremely embarrassing to what would appear to be an innocent party..they should all Be sued..
Well if what you're saying is correct they will be sued.
As I've already mentioned, snorting cocaine and putting your nob in a pigs mouth is no big deal, its you lot jumping up and down that's become the story.
Has it crossed your mind that there are people that don't like Cameron for various reasons? Ashcroft is a powerful billionaire that felt humiliated by Cameron, did he really think that Ashcroft was going to shrug his shoulders like a constituency member? Soames has piled in today, others will follow, I'm sorry if your illusions have been shattered but in cases such as Brookes and Andy the jailed PR man Cameron has shown questionable judgement, this confirms it.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Ah, Malky emerges drooling from another Brasso fuelled stupor.
Fortunately, you don't count.
Consistently poor as we expect from you.
Malcolmg what are your expectations of the final seat allocation in the Scottish assembly next year by party?
It is a crazy system to work out but I would expect SNP to be around 66-67 mark. I am no expert mind you and do not spend a great amount of time analysing it , SNP are still very popular , Labour are in the toilet and Lib Dems and Tories moribund. Fact that Davidson has had to elbow out someone on Edinburgh list to hopefully keep her in Holyrood as a consolation, kind of shows how confident the Tories are.
Well if what you're saying is correct they will be sued.
maybe. The PM may very well decide that suing keeps this dreadful business in the headlines and is better ignored.
Plus, the main person being sued can probably very well afford it, and may even welcome it. Which makes you think that the there is one law for the extremely wealthy and one for the rest of us.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No, it's illegal.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
S.63
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No, it's illegal.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
As you are quoting a 2008 Act ,it's irrelevant to what happened more than 30 years ago. And a moment's thought would have made you realise that.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No, it's illegal.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
As you are quoting a 2008 Act ,it's irrelevant to what happened more than 30 years ago.
The alleged act was performed 28 years ago, a photo of the act would if published fall under current law.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
I do and same for all the other tax dodgers that use it
Ah, Malky emerges drooling from another Brasso fuelled stupor.
Fortunately, you don't count.
Consistently poor as we expect from you.
Malcolmg what are your expectations of the final seat allocation in the Scottish assembly next year by party?
It is a crazy system to work out but I would expect SNP to be around 66-67 mark. I am no expert mind you and do not spend a great amount of time analysing it , SNP are still very popular , Labour are in the toilet and Lib Dems and Tories moribund. Fact that Davidson has had to elbow out someone on Edinburgh list to hopefully keep her in Holyrood as a consolation, kind of shows how confident the Tories are.
So SNP down 3-4. Labour gaining on 37? I would expect SNP to be gaining and Labour to be into the 20s. Are you seeing signs of a SLAB revival then or expect one?
One of our guys says VW could be looking at bankruptcy or at least a state bailout.
What peeves me is that I've had the experience of working on a product that was going to be a non-critical component in cars. The company I was working for was a consumer electronics company, and our automotive clients were massively strict on the specifications. It was a learning experience for what was a young, small company, and one that actually improved our practices and products.
That first product was a relative failure in the automotive market, but I believe that later developments of it were a success.
Yet it turns out that many automotive companies feel they can just ignore and cheat on specs. Our lives would have been much easier if we could just have put cheat modes into our software.
Blackburn 63..FYI Iam not a conservative.. they are way too far left for my tastes..that does not stop me stating that the piece was libellous and printed to inflict personal harm in a malicious manner..the piece was based on absolutely no provable evidence whatsoever, merely hearsay..it is unlikely the source will volunteer to be named.. even the authors admit that..They need to be taken to court and at the very least shamed ..
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
The size of fine the US are considering against VW seems rather disproportionate.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
Not au fait with motoring or business generally, but might those who have done likewise choose to put their hand up and pre-emptively confess guilt, to get more lenient treatment?
Edited extra bit: Mr. Dair, excellent statistical comparison.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No, it's illegal.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
As you are quoting a 2008 Act ,it's irrelevant to what happened more than 30 years ago.
The alleged act was performed 28 years ago, a photo of the act would if published fall under current law.
No-one outside the LibDem and Labour parties cares in the slightest about Lord Ashcroft's non-dom status. No one ever has, and no-one ever will. Quite apart from anything else, it's a horse which died years ago and was then extensively flogged at the time, to zero effect. Exhuming it now and re-flogging it won't bring it back to life.
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
The collateral damage in these things is what usually happens. A clever Labour MP embarrassed a tory over employing his son as l recall. The upshot of this expenses business was several Labour MPs arrested and eventually in jail. What will be the 'oakshott' in this case? The feeble journalistic justifications are not going to do reputations any good. l suspect a 600 page diatribe will not do Ashcroft any good either in the long run. lt's perhaps a good thing that politicians and their cheerleaders on the extreme of left and right are pretty useless. lt s certainly a great shame to me that so many right wingers are so dm.
Good news for the mystery MP. The photo might be legal after all. Publish and be damned...
@Barristerblog: An old post. With a living pig, vaginal or anal sex is illegal but oral sex is legal. Anything goes with a dead pig. http://t.co/L23PlH7i5r
No, it's illegal.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
As you are quoting a 2008 Act ,it's irrelevant to what happened more than 30 years ago.
The alleged act was performed 28 years ago, a photo of the act would if published fall under current law.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
The size of fine the US are considering against VW seems rather disproportionate.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
The US are squeezing a foreign competitor out of their domestic car market.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
The size of fine the US are considering against VW seems rather disproportionate.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
Its a per vehicle fine of $37,500. Maths doesn't discriminate.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
The size of fine the US are considering against VW seems rather disproportionate.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
US authorities really don't like being lead up the garden path !
Comments
Labour OTOH
'No it's not like any other love, this one is different because it's us'
Always loved that understanding that everyone thinks 'their' feelings are unique, special and superior
ISAs and pensions are one thing.
But in general, we've always adopted the principle that that, as a family, we only succeed when the community that supports us flourishes. Tax is one way of putting money back into the system; philanthropy is the other.
"Slovakia has so far offered to take 200 refugees, preferably Christians"
In 2011 the Czech President said “Calling someone a moderate Muslim is like calling someone a moderate Nazi”
Whilst obviously strongly disagreeing with the second, neither will encourage Muslim migrants to want to settle in Slovakia or Czech Republic so may be quite well received locally: the opposite of Merkel's message (now withdrawn after damage is done)
This is a big story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz0nafsr0vw
The general tone of the other allegations might have a bit more effect, but frankly the lurid nonsense has been so overdone that it just makes the authors of the book look silly.
Jeremy Corbyn should ask six factual questions on this subject tomorrow to make David Cameron record his position. That would be far harder to deal with than oinking noises.
Now I come to think of it, I might have a look at that myself...
Mr. Ghedebrav, I like Herodotus' anecdote about the silver thief and the Pharaoh as much as anyone else, but Thucydides wrote history, rather than a collection of myths with some facts occasionally included.
Betting PostJapan are 6 to beat Scotland with Ladbrokes, 6.8 with Betfair.
Whilst I do think Scotland are favourites, I think those odds are too long and have put on a little sum.
How dare anybody do something that doesn't endorse the Conservative Party
The most interesting thing about this book (so far) is that it makes a new vote on air strikes on Syria less likely.
That should help Corbyn.
(To address your rather weak point, I've also jumped to the defence of Labour and Lib Dems in the past as well).
I hope this marks the start of people questioning the "greatness" of German engineering. They have a weak currency and they cheat and bribe their way into big contracts.
0.
It's a bit like these market-fixing scandals in banking. There has to be a change of culture. How wide the associated change of personnel need be is a more open question but clearly has to include those most responsible for carrying it out and those who either gave a nod and a wink (or more) beforehand, or turned a blind eye after the event.
But levying huge fines is, to my mind, the wrong answer. In any case, causing massive disruption to the design and other functions will of itself be financially damaging.
@Wiseworlduk: Remembering the 11 #RoyalMarine bandsmen killed #OTD in 1989 at the RM School of Music in Deal.
We won't forget you. http://t.co/H5yWAoMLXg
I'm not holding my breath.
It's not a particularly big anniversary or anything.
Fortunately, you don't count.
Clarification: I wouldn't *actually* like to see it - figure of speech.
But with Herodotus and Thucydides, really it's a bit like comparing Hawks and Ford. They're just different.
That's cruel and unusual punishment - what can they possibly be debating? We had Mr Whippy on Day 1.
Might be tempted to back em at better odds with St J -1 or -2..
Wish Ladbrokes still had a bloody search button though.
Presumably because the stakes can be very high???
https://twitter.com/GeorgeMonbiot/status/646204098484793345
But then, the site might already know that.
It's one of the reasons the Diadochi Wars are such fun. The king of all alpha wolves dies, and suddenly there's about a dozen men all of whom are intelligent, fearless and ruthless having perpetual warfare (sometimes cold, sometimes hot) for decades.
It'd be akin to Cameron and Osborne both retiring tomorrow. Suddenly the Conservatives would be in a frenzy.
Repeating an untrue allegation from another publication in your publication is not a defence against libel. You will be liable.
Anyway, as a veggie, I think the daily, wholesale slaughter of pigs to eat as bacon is far worse than tampering with a pig's head.
On their front page
"Scrum in souvenir shops as rugby fans turn Japanese"
@suttonnick: Tuesday's The Telegraph front page:
Diesel car scandal could affect millions
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/jt0YSaOLCh
As I've already mentioned, snorting cocaine and putting your nob in a pigs mouth is no big deal, its you lot jumping up and down that's become the story.
Has it crossed your mind that there are people that don't like Cameron for various reasons? Ashcroft is a powerful billionaire that felt humiliated by Cameron, did he really think that Ashcroft was going to shrug his shoulders like a constituency member? Soames has piled in today, others will follow, I'm sorry if your illusions have been shattered but in cases such as Brookes and Andy the jailed PR man Cameron has shown questionable judgement, this confirms it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3244529/Lib-Dems-sing-songs-mocking-Charles-Kennedy-p-ed-just-three-months-ex-leader-died-alcoholism.html
maybe. The PM may very well decide that suing keeps this dreadful business in the headlines and is better ignored.
Plus, the main person being sued can probably very well afford it, and may even welcome it. Which makes you think that the there is one law for the extremely wealthy and one for the rest of us.
Buy British!!
Red Bull deal may very well be off the table. F1 is many things. Cheap it is not.
Grosjean to Haas [if true] is very good for the new US team. I rate Grosjean very highly. Strong team leader.
Mr. Dee, welcome to pb.com.
As usual your links are filled with nonsense and factually untrue.
Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008
S.63
(7)An image falls within this subsection if it portrays, in an explicit and realistic way, any of the following—
(a)an act which threatens a person's life,
(b)an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c)an act which involves sexual interference with a human corpse, or
(d)a person performing an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive),
As a result of the book will Ashcroft be expelled from the party?
Would a state bailout even be legal under EU law?? I'm not sure.
And a moment's thought would have made you realise that.
So Uk and Europe..
I would expect SNP to be gaining and Labour to be into the 20s. Are you seeing signs of a SLAB revival then or expect one?
That first product was a relative failure in the automotive market, but I believe that later developments of it were a success.
Yet it turns out that many automotive companies feel they can just ignore and cheat on specs. Our lives would have been much easier if we could just have put cheat modes into our software.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Dair, excellent statistical comparison.
A clever Labour MP embarrassed a tory over employing his son as l recall. The upshot of this expenses business was several Labour MPs arrested and eventually in jail. What will be the 'oakshott' in this case? The feeble journalistic justifications are not going to do reputations any good. l suspect a 600 page diatribe will not do Ashcroft any good either in the long run.
lt's perhaps a good thing that politicians and their cheerleaders on the extreme of left and right are pretty useless. lt s certainly a great shame to me that so many right wingers are so dm.