If a manufacturer wanted to get really good kudos atm, they should go on the record to say they're totally clean in this regard, and challenge independent labs to test them. They'd hoover up the market.
But the bottom line is that [most] consumers don't give a flying f*ck about emissions, except inasmuch as they qualify the car for a lower tax band. This requires a regulatory response (and I quite agree that VW have got everything coming to them, hopefully including jail time for fraud).
Assuming that Angela Merkel let's it happen.
Which is by no means certain.
Then you need to consider the potential response of Germany and/or the EU and what that could mean.
I'm not certain that Merkel will just let German wealth be eroded while she plays poodle in the way that Cameron allowed so much of Britains (few remaining) pension savings to get stung over Deepwater Horizon.
I fankly expected better from you as an engineer. My point is not what the politicians will or won't say, it's the fact that practically you can;t fix the problem overnight. If the current engines don't cut the mustard new ones have to be developed, tolling put down and parts manufactured. That will take a couple of years so what are you going to do in between, ban diesels ?
And nobody has yet spoken about diesel engines on trucks and vans.If they have cheat software too then it's major poo time.
Sorry if I've disappointed you. I'll try harder in future.
AIUI (And IANAE), the engines can be detuned to meet the emissions targets, which means less performance (which is apparently what 'defeat' did). We'll probably have a couple of years of poorer performance before progress brings the engines without the cheat up to where they were before with the cheat. But I doubt it will make engines unusable.
Agree about other engines as well. But as I said below, I wouldn't bet against petrol engines having similar cheats in.
If a manufacturer wanted to get really good kudos atm, they should go on the record to say they're totally clean in this regard, and challenge independent labs to test them. They'd hoover up the market.
But even detuning means engines have to be homologated and production lines reset to whatever standard. Politicians can yell all they want but if they want the job done properly then it will take time and they are not going to shut down car plants, suppliers and dealers until the VMs conform. All they can do is postpone legislation and fine the offenders.
Good points. But I'd be amazed if VW didn't already have hundreds of people working on exactly those issues. I'd expect it to be mainly a software issue (*) rather than large-scale hardware change, especially as 'Defeat' could alter the engine to make it pass. Although I might well be wrong on that, particularly on the side-effects of the change.
(*) I't s not often I say 'mainly a software issue' dismissively!
The issue isn't the number of bodies VW through at it, it's that the testing has set patterns and a timeframe. From my limited time on engines this will take about 6-12 months and then you have to adjust the production lines assuming. If you need new tooling or parts add more time.
About the only sensible way left is to give a let on ciurrent standards with massive penalties for as long as the engines remain outside spec.
Mr. JEO, might be a reference to the (from vague memory) rather different treatment of BP compared to other involved companies (which were American, I think).
Yes, it was despicable. Huge publicity error on BP's part not send an American senior person to front their recovery operation rather than a British one as I see it, but wouldn't have made any material difference to the daylight robbery that took place.
It seems like a somewhat inconsistent attitude to complain about American corporations ruining out environment, and yet demanding that British corporations doing the same should not have to pay compensation for one of the worst oil spills in recent times.
You misunderstand me; consistency is exactly what I argue for. Which is why I highlight the grotesque contrast with the outcomes of Bhopal and Deepwater. I don't argue that compensation wasn't in order (from all of the companies involved), I simply believe it should be proportionate to the damage caused.
Off topic - What I heard on the radio this morning sounded like an impending financial disaster for the entire vehicle industry.
Not just the VW stuff, I think some massive EU/US fines are coming across the entire industry with regards to emmissions/economy.
The potential stick of not being able to trade in two of the world's biggest markets makes them readily enforcable too... Shares are down all across the board this morning - but I think vehicle manufacturers have the particular problems today.
The size of fine the US are considering against VW seems rather disproportionate.
It's more than BP ended up having to pay for Deepwater Horizon.
For dodgy emissions on a type of vehicle which is less than 1% of the US market.
The US are squeezing a foreign competitor out of their domestic car market.
lts a company which has broken US law ('allegedly'). lt apples to all companies. GM were heavily fined not long ago and s subject to continuing litigation. The level of fine has not been determined yet. VW build many cars in the USA. lt has plants in north south and central America. lts plant in Chattanooga Tennessee can build 150000 cars a year. BMW have a large plant in South Carolina.
Try again.
The Americans are trying to squeeze a competitor out of their market and doing it not very intelligently.
Really? They faked the fake test results did they? They invented the fines just to skewer VW? VW are innocent? They let GM off its transgressions? Do we have any clue yet what the final cost will be to VW?
There was a ten year period, approximately 10-20 years ago when for no obvious reasons Diesel powered cars generally, across a wide range of manufacturers, started to make huge inroads in terms of both performance and emission levels compared with their petrol-powered equivalents in the market place. This resulted in a remarkable transformation, whereby previously considered dirty, smelly, slow, environmentally-unfriendly Diesel models caught up with and in some cases have overtaken the sales of petrol-fuelled cars. With hindsight, worth at least tuppence a bucket as we all know, this shift in consumer preference does seem to have been too good to be true. Call me an old cynic, but if VW were playing games, I'd be astonished if they were alone in that regard.
It's difficult to imagine that the discounted price of VW's affected diesel models and perhaps those of other manufacturers will drop by at least 10% over the coming months, where a price reduction of around 5%-6% is already overdue on account of Sterling's strength against the Euro throughout 2015.
Comments
Which is by no means certain.
Then you need to consider the potential response of Germany and/or the EU and what that could mean.
I'm not certain that Merkel will just let German wealth be eroded while she plays poodle in the way that Cameron allowed so much of Britains (few remaining) pension savings to get stung over Deepwater Horizon.
I'm out.
About the only sensible way left is to give a let on ciurrent standards with massive penalties for as long as the engines remain outside spec.
They let GM off its transgressions? Do we have any clue yet what the final cost will be to VW?
This resulted in a remarkable transformation, whereby previously considered dirty, smelly, slow, environmentally-unfriendly Diesel models caught up with and in some cases have overtaken the sales of petrol-fuelled cars.
With hindsight, worth at least tuppence a bucket as we all know, this shift in consumer preference does seem to have been too good to be true. Call me an old cynic, but if VW were playing games, I'd be astonished if they were alone in that regard.