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edited September 2015 in General

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  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    Have popcorn sales increased recently?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    The odds of an SDP style split have to be increasing surely. Has any bookie got any smart markets on this yet? Seems like something to get some publicity with.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Shadow drawer rather than cabinet perhaps.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Interesting in the Chinese sense.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited September 2015
    oxfordsimon said:

    Have popcorn sales increased recently?

    Sold out. Down to two bags of skittles and an old, half a bag of dry roasted.

    A complete Labour PLP implosion in time for the new Parliamentary week. Good time for the Tories to ram through legislation!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,060
    edited September 2015

    @LucyJones

    Come on, Cameron and Obama were doing selfies with The Danish PM. Leaning in and smiling.

    BJO's politics are far from mine, but I think he's right about this.


    Incredible some posters can never be wrong even when they are.

    EICIPM springs to mind!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,546
    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Seems like the moderates are going for the 'free french' option over the marquis option as proposed by DanHodges PBUH
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    John McDonnell as shadow chancellor must surely be a step too far, even for Corbyn. Or perhaps not...
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    i was going to have an early night - not now! This is too much surreal fun.
    CornishBlue said:

    oxfordsimon said:

    Have popcorn sales increased recently?

    Sold out. Down to two bags of skittles and an old, half a bag of dry roasted.

    A complete Labour PLP implosion in time for the new Parliamentary week. Good time for the Tories to ram through legislation!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FPT AndyJS said:

    "Yeah, as long as it features Scritti Politti, Five Star, Japan/David Sylvian, Dollar, and ABC."

    Rip, Rig and Panic?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,812
    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    Curious to see who gets the poisoned chalice of Labour Chief Whip. When a contentious issue comes up and Corbyn tries to whip his team is when it will be very interesting.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,062
    Has anyone read the comments on the Guardian's report on Merkel closing Germany's borders tonight. It's like there has been a mass conversion to UKippers with many expecting Merkel to resign. Also many calls to only take refugees from the camps as per David Cameron's policy. So much for the luvvies, Corbyn et al demanding we open our own borders. How out of touch are they.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is England '90 just starting on Channel 4.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Well if McDonnell is unacceptable among some Labour circles, their alternative of Angela Eagle is equally unacceptable because she was rubbish as Treasury minister:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/3419130/Commons-sketch-Brownite-troops-facing-their-Stalingrad.html

    "The Brownite forces were commanded by Angela Eagle, a junior Treasury minister who failed to live up to her name. This was an Eagle which could not fly, and could only flap her wings in a despondent fashion as she trotted out the evasive Brownite reaction to the economic crisis: "It is undoubtedly caused by global events originating outside our borders."

    Unfortunately for Miss Eagle, Mr Cable opened by quoting what she had said as recently as 2 April, when she accused the Liberal Democrats of tabling a motion which read "like the storyboard for Apocalypse Now, or perhaps even Bleak House", suggesting as it did that "we are facing an 'extreme bubble in the housing market' and the 'risk of recession'."
    With what scorn Miss Eagle dismissed those fears: "Fortunately for all of us...that colourful and lurid fiction has no real bearing on the macro-economic reality."
    It was impossible to avoid concluding, after being reminded of these remarks, that it is Miss Eagle who has lost touch with reality. Mr Cable put a series of unanswerable questions to her, all the more devastating for the calm and reasonable tone of voice which he employed."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,546
    Arguing about whether Cameron took a selfie, participated in a selfie, or did neither is just amusing to me, as I don't see what it matters if he did any of the options, so it's fun to go back and forth in faux seriousness on it with people who seem to think it does matter.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :love: the avatar
    TudorRose said:

    Shadow drawer rather than cabinet perhaps.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    flightpath01 said:

    DavidL said:

    There must be a real chance now that we are going to end up with two Labour parties in the HoC. They may agree on some things but they will have different spokespeople and different views on immigration, the EU, QE, Israel and most economic matters.

    This may go beyond the majority of the PLP playing the same destructive and awkward role that Corbyn himself has played for the last 30 years. This is starting to feel like 2 parties.

    Well, in yet another attempt to be fair... There have always been 2 Labour Parties in the HoC. It just that previously we had Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the protesting shouty rebels with the rest supporting the govt. Now we have Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the govt with the rest as the rebels...
    Actually there are De Facto two official, registered political parties in the Parliamentary Labour Party - Labour and the Co-operatives.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    He has to do it tonight though! There's a full programme in Parliament next week,he can't be doing it tomorrow morning. Although i imagine a lot of MPs are getting ready to go to bed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    A united Tory In victory defeating UKIP and a badly divided Labour Out ... who could have ever credibly predicted that five years ago?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    I cannot see Corbyn backing Out unless employee rights are weakened. Cameron will not renegotiate employee rights for this very reason.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Paul Brand ‏@PaulBrandITV 36m36 minutes ago
    Always interesting talking politics with 'normal' friends. Two who've voted Tory/Libs like Corbyn's sincerity. Still think he could surprise
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    If Corbyn leads the Out campaign and Out wins, he'll be the next PM.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Rosie Winterton is keeping the job isn't she?
    Philip_Thompson said:

    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    Curious to see who gets the poisoned chalice of Labour Chief Whip. When a contentious issue comes up and Corbyn tries to whip his team is when it will be very interesting.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    Philip_Thompson said:

    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    Curious to see who gets the poisoned chalice of Labour Chief Whip. When a contentious issue comes up and Corbyn tries to whip his team is when it will be very interesting.
    Rosie Winterton is carrying on as Chief Whip. No-one will envy her that task
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Philip_Thompson said:

    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    Curious to see who gets the poisoned chalice of Labour Chief Whip. When a contentious issue comes up and Corbyn tries to whip his team is when it will be very interesting.
    We already know that - it's Rosie Winterton
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Plato_Says said:

    :love: the avatar

    TudorRose said:

    Shadow drawer rather than cabinet perhaps.

    He's the leader of 'Cats for Corbyn' - although he wasn't impressed when I told him it meant I'd have to redistribute his munchies.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Again, it says it all about the Blairites that the bloody EU referendum is the top issue Chuka cited. How out of touch with grassroots opinion (and I would say public opinion) for THAT to be the issue you care most about??
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wasn't he tweeting earlier that people became Labour MPs because they HATED Tories?

    Or was that his point? Twitter is insane this evening
    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Are there any guidelines for what happens if the second largest party is unable to form an Opposition?

    I don't think Angus Robertson would have any problems sitting at the opposition box and his Shadow team is already in place.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Plato_Says said:

    Wasn't he tweeting earlier that people became Labour MPs because they HATED Tories?

    Or was that his point? Twitter is insane this evening

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    Yes but he has apologised and retracted that as an 'unwise choice of words' :)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What have you done with Ms DiCanio?
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    If Corbyn leads the Out campaign and Out wins, he'll be the next PM.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,751
    Of course a huge amount of the blame for this mess goes to Cooper, Kendall and Burnham. They all tiptoed around the lunacy that was Corbyn until far too late. As grown up politicians they had a duty to take him on and explain to the membership why his position was complete nonsense. They failed miserably in that duty giving the idiocy that they should not have tolerated in the party free rein to promise gifts for all, SNP style.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ah, a barrack room lawyer.
    TudorRose said:

    Plato_Says said:

    :love: the avatar

    TudorRose said:

    Shadow drawer rather than cabinet perhaps.

    He's the leader of 'Cats for Corbyn' - although he wasn't impressed when I told him it meant I'd have to redistribute his munchies.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited September 2015
    Just a comment on the threads of the past few days. With a few notable exceptions, without prior knowledge, I think it would be hard to tell just from the comments who is Tory, LD, UKIP, SNP and PLP. There seems to be a general incredulity to events.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Some progress?

    Darren McCaffrey from Twitter1m
    I understand that the #Corbyn team expect Andy Burnham, Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle to remain in shadow cabinet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    As a probable Inner, I genuinely don't know if this telepod accident of a Labour leader would be an asset or a hindrance to the campaign. Although the Loki side of my character would dearly love to see Corbyn, as an "Out", sharing a stage with Dan Hannan. The universe might explode...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Plato_Says said:

    What have you done with Ms DiCanio?

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    If Corbyn leads the Out campaign and Out wins, he'll be the next PM.
    How come you've got a new account?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,238
    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    Frontbenchers maybe, the likes of Hannan, Redwood and Patterson and Cash will all campaign alongside Corbyn as well as Farage on this issue because opposition to the EU is at the core of their political identity, remember Powell campaigned with Foot in the EEC referendum
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    alex. said:

    Some progress?

    Darren McCaffrey from Twitter1m
    I understand that the #Corbyn team expect Andy Burnham, Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle to remain in shadow cabinet.

    No surprises there - Burnham's got some front.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited September 2015
    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    He didn't say that it was a two part tweet...

    https://twitter.com/tobyperkinsmp/status/643139294698315776

    https://twitter.com/tobyperkinsmp/status/643139874598555650
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    If Labour go anti EU, that's good news for the LDs who finally gain a raison d'etre.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Dair said:

    flightpath01 said:

    DavidL said:

    There must be a real chance now that we are going to end up with two Labour parties in the HoC. They may agree on some things but they will have different spokespeople and different views on immigration, the EU, QE, Israel and most economic matters.

    This may go beyond the majority of the PLP playing the same destructive and awkward role that Corbyn himself has played for the last 30 years. This is starting to feel like 2 parties.

    Well, in yet another attempt to be fair... There have always been 2 Labour Parties in the HoC. It just that previously we had Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the protesting shouty rebels with the rest supporting the govt. Now we have Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the govt with the rest as the rebels...
    Actually there are De Facto two official, registered political parties in the Parliamentary Labour Party - Labour and the Co-operatives.
    Wow - to think I actually knew that. I'm going to apply to go on 'Pointless'.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Vanilla developed an allergy to my old account.
    Danny565 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    What have you done with Ms DiCanio?

    MonikerDiCanio said:

    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    If Corbyn leads the Out campaign and Out wins, he'll be the next PM.
    How come you've got a new account?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,872
    Dair said:

    Are there any guidelines for what happens if the second largest party is unable to form an Opposition?

    I don't think Angus Robertson would have any problems sitting at the opposition box and his Shadow team is already in place.

    We're in uncharted waters (well, uncharted since 1916-24). One of the two principal parties is disintegrating as we watch.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    Wouldn't a breakaway party or people resigning the Labour whip to be independents be more likely than resignations from seats?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    I wonder if it is not more likely that they will simply form a new party.

    If they aligned it with the SNP, they could focus on being an English party, devoted to Socialism.

    English Socialism, has a certain ring to it.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MP_SE said:

    MikeL said:

    If Corbyn campaigns for Out it will stop big name Con waverers doing the same - they'll either have to support In or they'll just have to keep quiet during the campaign.

    Net result will be to help In.

    It surely has to be 100% certain that large majority of Lab MPs will not support Out under any circumstances.

    I cannot see Corbyn backing Out unless employee rights are weakened. Cameron will not renegotiate employee rights for this very reason.
    The interesting thing is that Corbyn's biggest card is to blackmail the PM on the issue of europe, because without Corbyn's support Cameron would not be able to win his referendum.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,751
    Danny565 said:

    Again, it says it all about the Blairites that the bloody EU referendum is the top issue Chuka cited. How out of touch with grassroots opinion (and I would say public opinion) for THAT to be the issue you care most about??

    Agreed. Incredible.

    Peoples' QE they can live with, the comments about various terrorists being "friends" are apparently ok, membership of NATO and nuclear weapons are up for grabs and can be the subject of "sensible" discussion, the idea that the last Labour government spent too little rather than too much is apparently an interesting point of view, the deficit, well whatever, but suggest that the EU is not developing to the UK's advantage and they are out of there.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Jonathan said:

    If Labour go anti EU, that's good news for the LDs who finally gain a raison d'etre.

    Didn't do them much good in the 2014 Euros :p
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FPT
    Sunil_Prasannan said:
    » show previous quotes
    So a couple on holiday taking a pic of themselves is not a selfie?
    Clearly a terminological minefield. I would say that a couple taking one together is a selfie, as it is for both of them. Participating in someone else's selfie is not the same thing. We must know if she sent the pic on to Obama and Cameron todetermine this!

    Participating in someone else's selfie .....That's a photo bomb is it not? According to my kids anyway
    :-)


    Bored with this lets get back to Labour punching itself in the face over and over and over
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    felix said:

    alex. said:

    Some progress?

    Darren McCaffrey from Twitter1m
    I understand that the #Corbyn team expect Andy Burnham, Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle to remain in shadow cabinet.

    No surprises there - Burnham's got some front.
    Burnham down as the first to resign from Corbyn's cabinet?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    flightpath01 said:

    Dair said:

    flightpath01 said:

    DavidL said:

    There must be a real chance now that we are going to end up with two Labour parties in the HoC. They may agree on some things but they will have different spokespeople and different views on immigration, the EU, QE, Israel and most economic matters.

    This may go beyond the majority of the PLP playing the same destructive and awkward role that Corbyn himself has played for the last 30 years. This is starting to feel like 2 parties.

    Well, in yet another attempt to be fair... There have always been 2 Labour Parties in the HoC. It just that previously we had Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the protesting shouty rebels with the rest supporting the govt. Now we have Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the govt with the rest as the rebels...
    Actually there are De Facto two official, registered political parties in the Parliamentary Labour Party - Labour and the Co-operatives.
    Wow - to think I actually knew that. I'm going to apply to go on 'Pointless'.
    Or even better, eggheads.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Why don't the Coop party elect a new leader? In fact, why do they defer to the Labour party to elect the leader of the PLP?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    Of course a huge amount of the blame for this mess goes to Cooper, Kendall and Burnham. They all tiptoed around the lunacy that was Corbyn until far too late. As grown up politicians they had a duty to take him on and explain to the membership why his position was complete nonsense. They failed miserably in that duty giving the idiocy that they should not have tolerated in the party free rein to promise gifts for all, SNP style.

    It's also a legacy that Brown kept on the likes of Corbyn despite the racist, homophobic and borderline treasonous connections he has. He should have faced the fate of Gorgeous George Galloway a long time ago.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    felix said:

    alex. said:

    Some progress?

    Darren McCaffrey from Twitter1m
    I understand that the #Corbyn team expect Andy Burnham, Hillary Benn and Angela Eagle to remain in shadow cabinet.

    No surprises there - Burnham's got some front.
    More like he's got no spine.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    DavidL said:

    Of course a huge amount of the blame for this mess goes to Cooper, Kendall and Burnham. They all tiptoed around the lunacy that was Corbyn until far too late. As grown up politicians they had a duty to take him on and explain to the membership why his position was complete nonsense. They failed miserably in that duty giving the idiocy that they should not have tolerated in the party free rein to promise gifts for all, SNP style.

    But the biggest blame must go to Beckett and all the non-supporting nominees. They should be forced to take on any unfilled shadow cabinet vacancies as penance.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,456
    Dair said:

    Are there any guidelines for what happens if the second largest party is unable to form an Opposition?

    I don't think Angus Robertson would have any problems sitting at the opposition box and his Shadow team is already in place.

    Surely all that is needed is that there is a second largest party, and it has a leader.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    Hopefully resignations from the Commons, it would be nice to see Corbynite Nick Palmer back as a legislator in an ultra-safe seat.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MTimT said:

    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    Wouldn't a breakaway party or people resigning the Labour whip to be independents be more likely than resignations from seats?
    Dead MP's walking.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    Speedy said:

    ...without Corbyn's support Cameron would not be able to win his referendum...

    Sure about that?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,546
    MTimT said:

    Just a comment on the threads of the past few days. With a few notable exceptions, without prior knowledge, I think it would be hard to tell just from the comments who is Tory, LD, UKIP, SNP and PLP. There seems to be a general incredulity to events.

    JC does bring unity after all.

    I still cannot see defections happening. Unless attempts are made to mass deselect, certainly current politics seems to see switching between the big two are practically anathema, particularly from Lab to Con (has it ever happened) as arguments are about who is best and most loyal to the party, and it doesn't seem like the MP Corbynistas really beleive the likes of Hunt or Kendall belong in the Tories, and they wouldn't want to go there either. They won't go to the LDs while they have no pulse, UKIP are out for most, so any 'defections' would be to sit as an Ind, surely, in which case why bother when you can just be a serial rebel like JC?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Speedy said:

    Well if McDonnell is unacceptable among some Labour circles, their alternative of Angela Eagle is equally unacceptable because she was rubbish as Treasury minister:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/3419130/Commons-sketch-Brownite-troops-facing-their-Stalingrad.html
    "The Brownite forces were commanded by Angela Eagle, a junior Treasury minister who failed to live up to her name.

    And we thought the choice of Alan, a song and a dance and a merry quip, Johnson as opposed to Ed Balls was bizarre....
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Dair said:

    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    I wonder if it is not more likely that they will simply form a new party.

    If they aligned it with the SNP, they could focus on being an English party, devoted to Socialism.

    English Socialism, has a certain ring to it.
    Err - they'd be closer to the Orange bookers than socialism - its the reds that are in charge now!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,596
    Just stuck in a tweet from Iain Dale into the thread header
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Amazingly, it looks very much as though Labour are going to be split more acrimoniously on the EU than the Conservatives will be.

    I have to hand it to the Labour Party: when it comes to engineering a grade A, no-holds-barred, pure gold catastrophe for themselves, they are the undisputed masters.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    A mass of whip resigners would be enormous. And a great way to avoid the horrors - with the proviso that they'd return once a sensible leader was elected.
    MTimT said:

    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    Wouldn't a breakaway party or people resigning the Labour whip to be independents be more likely than resignations from seats?
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Burnham has been unwaveringly pro-EU - I can't see him supporting that, surely? I guess he is known for his flip-flop antics...
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    DavidL said:

    Danny565 said:

    Again, it says it all about the Blairites that the bloody EU referendum is the top issue Chuka cited. How out of touch with grassroots opinion (and I would say public opinion) for THAT to be the issue you care most about??

    Agreed. Incredible.

    Peoples' QE they can live with, the comments about various terrorists being "friends" are apparently ok, membership of NATO and nuclear weapons are up for grabs and can be the subject of "sensible" discussion, the idea that the last Labour government spent too little rather than too much is apparently an interesting point of view, the deficit, well whatever, but suggest that the EU is not developing to the UK's advantage and they are out of there.
    To be fair, the EU referendum is arguably the only issue where they can't afford to wait for Corbyn to crash and burn on in an election.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Jonathan said:

    If Labour go anti EU, that's good news for the LDs who finally gain a raison d'etre.

    Pro EU - Pro Immigration: Lib Dems
    Pro EU - Anti Immigration: Tories
    Anti-EU - Pro Immigration: Labour
    Anti EU - Anti Immigration: UKIP

    Labour's would probably be the worst position of the lot.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,787
    Pauly said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    He didn't say that it was a two part tweet...

    https://twitter.com/tobyperkinsmp/status/643139294698315776

    https://twitter.com/tobyperkinsmp/status/643139874598555650
    He goes up in my opinion because he admitted it was a mistake, and he deliberately did not use the awful 'I wuz hacked lolz' excuse too many MPs use when they prove Cameron's adage.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    B
    TudorRose said:

    DavidL said:

    Of course a huge amount of the blame for this mess goes to Cooper, Kendall and Burnham. They all tiptoed around the lunacy that was Corbyn until far too late. As grown up politicians they had a duty to take him on and explain to the membership why his position was complete nonsense. They failed miserably in that duty giving the idiocy that they should not have tolerated in the party free rein to promise gifts for all, SNP style.

    But the biggest blame must go to Beckett and all the non-supporting nominees. They should be forced to take on any unfilled shadow cabinet vacancies as penance.
    Brilliant penance! :)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    So Ivan Lewis was not sacked after all. He sacked himself.

    Tom Watson's position becomes stronger by the minute. In the PLP, apart from JC, he is the only one with a "mandate".
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited September 2015
    alex. said:

    Why don't the Coop party elect a new leader? In fact, why do they defer to the Labour party to elect the leader of the PLP?

    Co-operative Party members get to vote in the leadership election.

    Of course they also have a leader of their own Gareth Thomas MP.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    We have quite a few quiz show contestants on here. One won a large bundle of cash on Deal or No Deal

    IIRC @MyBurningEars made the final of 15 to 1 or somesuch
    felix said:

    flightpath01 said:

    Dair said:

    flightpath01 said:

    DavidL said:

    There must be a real chance now that we are going to end up with two Labour parties in the HoC. They may agree on some things but they will have different spokespeople and different views on immigration, the EU, QE, Israel and most economic matters.

    This may go beyond the majority of the PLP playing the same destructive and awkward role that Corbyn himself has played for the last 30 years. This is starting to feel like 2 parties.

    Well, in yet another attempt to be fair... There have always been 2 Labour Parties in the HoC. It just that previously we had Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the protesting shouty rebels with the rest supporting the govt. Now we have Corbyn and his 12 disciples as the govt with the rest as the rebels...
    Actually there are De Facto two official, registered political parties in the Parliamentary Labour Party - Labour and the Co-operatives.
    Wow - to think I actually knew that. I'm going to apply to go on 'Pointless'.
    Or even better, eggheads.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,961
    I think Lib-Dems could very soon be back in the game...
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    viewcode said:

    Speedy said:

    ...without Corbyn's support Cameron would not be able to win his referendum...

    Sure about that?

    Absolutely, the core support for IN is among the young and Labour voters whom they now look to Corbyn for spiritual guidance.
    According to the latest polls support for OUT is greater than 60% among over 60's and support for IN is greater than 70% among those under 30, if the young and the lefties swing from IN to OUT there is no group left to overwhelmingly support IN apart from the LD.
  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    I have always suspected that the Tory leadership stuck rigidly to staying in because they were afraid of a return to the old days of being characterized as being out-of-touch, dinosaur buffers. This threat disappears if Corbyn goes over to the "leave" side. So I will go on wishful thinking that DC might make his date with destiny.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,751
    alex. said:

    DavidL said:

    Danny565 said:

    Again, it says it all about the Blairites that the bloody EU referendum is the top issue Chuka cited. How out of touch with grassroots opinion (and I would say public opinion) for THAT to be the issue you care most about??

    Agreed. Incredible.

    Peoples' QE they can live with, the comments about various terrorists being "friends" are apparently ok, membership of NATO and nuclear weapons are up for grabs and can be the subject of "sensible" discussion, the idea that the last Labour government spent too little rather than too much is apparently an interesting point of view, the deficit, well whatever, but suggest that the EU is not developing to the UK's advantage and they are out of there.
    To be fair, the EU referendum is arguably the only issue where they can't afford to wait for Corbyn to crash and burn on in an election.
    That's not being fair, that's being pathetic. They know that Corbyn's position on these matters is indefensible and harmful to the national interest and yet they are willing to support him. Until their beloved Europe is challenged
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    alex. said:

    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    He has to do it tonight though! There's a full programme in Parliament next week,he can't be doing it tomorrow morning. Although i imagine a lot of MPs are getting ready to go to bed.
    I don't think Parliament business is dependent on a Shadow Cabinet existing. Every post could be left vacant indefinitely and t'would not matter one jot.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Dair said:

    AndyJS said:

    felix said:

    Toby Perkins lab MP has tweeted that he expects defections to the Tories. Amazing that he says it.

    If John McDonnell is appointed shadow chancellor I would fully expect to see either defections or resignations from the Commons. The latter would be more likely.
    I wonder if it is not more likely that they will simply form a new party.

    If they aligned it with the SNP, they could focus on being an English party, devoted to Socialism.

    English Socialism, has a certain ring to it.
    Socialists, joining up with nationalists, if only there was a snappy name for it that could be goer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,596
    @SkyNewsBreak: Sky Sources: Andy Burnham, Hilary Benn and Angela Eagle expected to remain in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,139
    surbiton said:

    So Ivan Lewis was not sacked after all. He sacked himself.

    Tom Watson's position becomes stronger by the minute. In the PLP, apart from JC, he is the only one with a "mandate".

    There was a follow up tweet to that - source within the camp said he was sacked, and by text (see Laura keunssberg Twitter)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,751
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Amazingly, it looks very much as though Labour are going to be split more acrimoniously on the EU than the Conservatives will be.

    I have to hand it to the Labour Party: when it comes to engineering a grade A, no-holds-barred, pure gold catastrophe for themselves, they are the undisputed masters.

    In fairness, they did do the same to the whole country when they were last in government.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    I wonder if tonight the PLP are suddenly beginning to realise how powerful they are. It's one thing to have no option but to support the leader (or at least keep pretty quiet on the backbenches) when potential rebels are a signficant minority at best (think IDS in 2001). But the potential rebels here are 90% OF THE PARTY. They can do what they want.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,238
    Speedy said:

    viewcode said:

    Speedy said:

    ...without Corbyn's support Cameron would not be able to win his referendum...

    Sure about that?

    Absolutely, the core support for IN is among the young and Labour voters whom they now look to Corbyn for spiritual guidance.
    According to the latest polls support for OUT is greater than 60% among over 60's and support for IN is greater than 70% among those under 30, if the young and the lefties swing from IN to OUT there is no group left to overwhelmingly support IN apart from the LD.
    Yes, but Tory voters are in the middle so if Corbyn goes Out and Cameron is IN they could swing to staying inside
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Has anyone read the comments on the Guardian's report on Merkel closing Germany's borders tonight. It's like there has been a mass conversion to UKippers with many expecting Merkel to resign. Also many calls to only take refugees from the camps as per David Cameron's policy. So much for the luvvies, Corbyn et al demanding we open our own borders. How out of touch are they.

    Yes - as I believe I pointed out a little earlier - Cameron grows in stature by the minute.
    I think everyone's predictions hopes and fears about EU renegotiations need to be put on hold right now. Just where we will be one way or another in 3 months time is a total unknown. Let's stop any pretence that we can divine any future.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,596
    Razedabode said:

    surbiton said:

    So Ivan Lewis was not sacked after all. He sacked himself.

    Tom Watson's position becomes stronger by the minute. In the PLP, apart from JC, he is the only one with a "mandate".

    There was a follow up tweet to that - source within the camp said he was sacked, and by text (see Laura keunssberg Twitter)
    Cheers, just stuck that into the thread header, is bloody hard to keep up with what is going on.

    *Glares at Mike* heh
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Lib-Dems could very soon be back in the game...

    Corbyn's election is a stroke of luck for the yellows, undoubtedly.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jim Waterson had some great detail from LHQ staffers http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/labour-staff-fear-corbyn-is-planning-to-centralise-power-in?utm_term=.xd6DZJV1Go#.gfwabQ9y0q
    SeanT said:

    Incredible detail in Times (£) report on Corbyn's victory.

    In the hours after The Jezlamist's triumph was announced, "Labour party staff wore black as if in mourning"

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,751
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Razedabode said:

    surbiton said:

    So Ivan Lewis was not sacked after all. He sacked himself.

    Tom Watson's position becomes stronger by the minute. In the PLP, apart from JC, he is the only one with a "mandate".

    There was a follow up tweet to that - source within the camp said he was sacked, and by text (see Laura keunssberg Twitter)
    Cheers, just stuck that into the thread header, is bloody hard to keep up with what is going on.

    *Glares at Mike* heh
    We are obviously all getting very excited about nothing otherwise Mike wouldn't be on holiday.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    So Cameron was in someones selfie at a funeral so WTF..wjho cares.. it is not even a mild diversion from the shambles going on in Labours Westminster office or the total fuck up in Europe.. I bet there were a lot of smiles and some champers quaffed when Mandelas will was read out.. ..
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,501
    Speedy said:

    viewcode said:

    Speedy said:

    ...without Corbyn's support Cameron would not be able to win his referendum...

    Sure about that?

    Absolutely, the core support for IN is among the young and Labour voters whom they now look to Corbyn for spiritual guidance.
    According to the latest polls support for OUT is greater than 60% among over 60's and support for IN is greater than 70% among those under 30, if the young and the lefties swing from IN to OUT there is no group left to overwhelmingly support IN apart from the LD.
    I was about to make a snappy rejoinder, when I was struck by your phrase "the young and Labour voters whom they now look to Corbyn for spiritual guidance". Jeez-Louise. The youth and Labour voters look to JEREMY F***ING CORBYN for spiritual guidance. If true (I have no reason to disbelieve you), it's a rather depressing statement...:-(
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @SkyNewsBreak: Sky Sources: Andy Burnham, Hilary Benn and Angela Eagle expected to remain in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet

    It's like hearing that Brad Dexter and Horst Bucholz are sticking round to star in the sequel to the Magnificent Seven
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    Hi TSE. You're a tory I think and you repeatedly said you thought Corbyn would lose: something to do with that you got it wrong at the general election? So that's a few bad calls ;)

    Any chance of kind of backing off on your sort of gloat stuff and maybe pausing to reflect? Maybe Corbyn's doing things a little different to how you like. We've spent 30 years of the MSM Blair machine that it's all a bit of a shock to some systems.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2015
    I've been rather busy with other things for the last few days, but I'd just like to check that politicalbetting.com has sent a formal note of thanks to the Labour Party not only for the entertainment of the last few months, but more importantly for the highly profitable betting opportunities. It would be impolite not to send a thank-you note.

    Dare we hope for another go in a couple of years' time?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    viewcode said:

    alex. said:

    kle4 said:

    A little chaos to be expected right at the start. He will have a team of some sort soon enough, and thenthe fun of seeing how the operate and how the party as a whole does will begin.

    He has to do it tonight though! There's a full programme in Parliament next week,he can't be doing it tomorrow morning. Although i imagine a lot of MPs are getting ready to go to bed.
    I don't think Parliament business is dependent on a Shadow Cabinet existing. Every post could be left vacant indefinitely and t'would not matter one jot.
    Of course Parliamentary business goes on. I mean he has to do it tonight so that Labour can credibly participate.
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