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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The shadow cabinet reshuffle is becoming interesting

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  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?
  • Nick Palmer.

    Shakes head.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    SeanT said:

    Judging by this calamitous and hilarious Shadow Cabinet formation, the point is: politics sometimes doesn't need rules or regimens. You can just be so horrifically bad at your job that you know you have to quit, and there it is, as all your important colleagues despise you.

    Do you believe that any individual on the Hard Left has ever demonstrated such a basic sense of self-awareness?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.

    If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.

    tyson said:

    RE; the great Labour re-shuffle

    This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.

    Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    EPG said:

    James Cook
    @JamesLiamCook
    James Liam Cook announced as new Shadow Defence Secretary

    Who is he?

    Er everyone, it's a joke. Ironic if PB Tories need humour transplant on funniest day ever
    Lol. No sense of humour bypass here.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    alex. said:

    John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?

    He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.
  • MikeL said:

    Note that John McDonnell is 64. Corbyn is 66.

    So 69 and 71 respectively in 2020.

    What's the odds of one of them not making it due to ill health? 9 collective years between them at 65+ basically I would say about a 20-25% chance of one of them having a heart attack/stroke other dehabilitating illness rendering them unable to continue. Maybe slightly less as they are privileged, but who knows...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
    It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.

    Yes, but more importantly, is John McDonnell running Jeremy Corbyn?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    For HYUFD on Sanders campaigning in SC:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cornel-west-joins-bernie-sanders-on-the-campaign-trail-in-south-carolina/2015/09/12/bc9b4236-58c2-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html

    Not sure Cornel West is the best intro for Bernie into the black community, but it seems to be drawing the crowds. I think the comments of Tomiko at the end of the article should have the Hillary crowd truly sweating.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Corbyn looks a bit out of his depth already.
  • fitalass said:

    Twitter
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
    It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.

    I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?
  • tyson said:

    Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.

    If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.

    tyson said:

    RE; the great Labour re-shuffle

    This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.

    Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
    Shame on me for forgetting the good Dr Fox.

    I shall do a thread on AV as penance.
  • SeanT said:

    Don't understand why Nick Palmer isn't on here to explain how well this is all going.

    *mystified*

    Yep, it will be intetesting to get Nick's views on why today has been such a goid day for JC. He's so polite and unspun, doncha know. McDonnell - a moderate, unifying voice; a masterstroke.

  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Speedy said:

    alex. said:

    John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?

    He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.
    He said he would resign as an MP if Labour didn't back Trident Renewal. And now rumour is he's in the Shadow Cabinet?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?

    Splendid!
    This is actually the most WTF moment so far.

    I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.
    Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.

    He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
    That's leadership. Corbyn hasn't bowed to the wets.
    Actually that does make sense. His win is based on an entirely new economic policy - namely Anti-austerity. Like it or loathe it, that is what the Party wants.

    What everyone was expecting was that after winning Corbyn will like every other politician compromise and make gestures towards the City.

    But Corbyn is not your normal politician. Expect him to attack the banks which the Labour leadership were hitherto scared to criticise.

    Keeping up the EU membership up his sleeve also helps. Why does he have to show his cards now ? Thatcher made anti-Europe noises but signed every treaty.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    This Corbyn business tonight is a series of acts of gross political incompetence.

    The last one I can remember like this was in Ireland in 2010, when the government tried to renew its image by getting about forty per cent of the ministers to resign, but then realised it didn't have a parliamentary majority to replace them, so it soldiered on and everyone doubled up on portfolios.
  • Corbyn seems to have forgotten defence.. symbolic
  • Speedy said:

    alex. said:

    John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?

    He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.
    Doubt it - more likely to be a resignation down the line
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    surbiton said:

    James Cook
    @JamesLiamCook
    James Liam Cook announced as new Shadow Defence Secretary

    Who is he?

    Isn't he a journalist ?
    I think Plato has fallen for a joke
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:

    Jack Evans @jackcevans
    Were you up for Defence?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.

    It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2015
    alex. said:

    Speedy said:

    alex. said:

    John Woodcock in the Shadow Cabinet means that Labour are going to back Trident Renewal. Doesn't it?

    He might be shadow defence secretary or work and pensions.
    He said he would resign as an MP if Labour didn't back Trident Renewal. And now rumour is he's in the Shadow Cabinet?
    Why not?
    I thought Blairism was all about power as an end in itself.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2015

    SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?

    Splendid!
    This is actually the most WTF moment so far.

    I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.
    Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.

    He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
    Are you coming round to the InstaCoup™? :smile:
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Blinking heck- waiting for the Federer match is exhausting, and I'm an hour ahead. Poor John Bercow is going to be knackered tomorrow- he's going to let Corbyn do anything he likes.

    Is anyone else staying up to see the very divine Roger?
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    kle4 said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.


    "Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.

    “Yes,” said Mr Cameron.

    The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html
  • GIN1138 said:

    The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.

    Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.

    Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.

    PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.

    I am not sure which way this will go.

    Time will tell.

    Are we getting the first rumblings of:

    JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?
    No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.

    It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.

    Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything!
  • SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?

    Splendid!
    This is actually the most WTF moment so far.

    I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.
    Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.

    He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.

    After today they know they'll have to wait less time for him to go than they dared to dream of yesterday.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Just had that conversation with Fitaloon as Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet was being unveiled tonight. Seriously, the Labour Party has moved beyond a 'The Thick of It' episode and into the Twilight Zone of politics.

    SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?

    Splendid!
    This is actually the most WTF moment so far.

    I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.
    Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.

    He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    alex. said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.

    It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.

    Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything! And that it is not what Corbyn is proposing anyway.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    DfiD and Defra
    alex. said:

    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?

  • There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Hypothetically.

    This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.

    As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.

    Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.
  • The Wikipedia page keeps changing.

    Woodcock has gone from the page now;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)
  • SeanT said:

    Don't understand why Nick Palmer isn't on here to explain how well this is all going.

    *mystified*

    Yep, it will be intetesting to get Nick's views on why today has been such a goid day for JC. He's so polite and unspun, doncha know. McDonnell - a moderate, unifying voice; a masterstroke.

    I am sure Mr Palmer will say, 'when you come to a fork in the road take it.'
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    JonathanD said:

    kle4 said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.


    "Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.

    “Yes,” said Mr Cameron.

    The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html
    Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Where to begin.....

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
    It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.

    I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    DfiD and Defra

    alex. said:

    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?

    We've had DfID. Also there might be Cabinet office?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.

    The Wikipedia page keeps changing.

    Woodcock has gone from the page now;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tyson said:

    Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.

    If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.

    tyson said:

    RE; the great Labour re-shuffle

    This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.

    Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
    It has been an entertaining year for betting, and a lucrative one too for yours truly!

    What happens next? That Labour party conference will be very entertaining. Are 3 quidder Kendallites welcome? Or will we all be purged by then?

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
    It'll take journalists a few days, but once they've been through John McDonnell's back-catalogue, the Labour Party will be a smoking ruin.

    I take it John McDonnell has some unsavoury baggage then…?
    Depends how you view it. Some of it is on public record, some of it not.

    It all brings to mind Alan Beasdale's GBH.....
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    AndyJS said:

    I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.

    The Wikipedia page keeps changing.

    Woodcock has gone from the page now;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)

    I think a lot of rumours might be being fuelled by wind-ups...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited September 2015

    SeanT said:

    DavidL said:

    Dair said:

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    The same Lucy Powell who wasn't going to serve under Corbyn? The same Lucy Powell who is utterly incompetent and not capable of stringing a coherent sentence together?

    Splendid!
    This is actually the most WTF moment so far.

    I'm not sure who it reflects worse on - Powell or Corbyn. Whichever, it is bizarre and ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous of course but the McDonnell appointment is the one that will destroy him.
    Yep. Absolutely poisonous. I've read several articles by insiders saying that Corbyn's association with McDonnell was the clinching factor. If Corbyn kept him on: implosion.

    He hasn't just kept him on, he's made him Shadow Chancellor.
    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.
    So, you suggest, 60% of the Party's voices [ whether correct or not ] should be ignored ? Maybe , professional politicians can't get their head round it.

    Who will remember in two years Chuka Umunna, Mary Creagh, Liz Kendall etc. ? Even others from the Labour Right will fill their space .
  • I'm going to defend Corbyn here.

    He's been given an overwhelming mandate. He is entitled to do things his way and appoint whoever he wants.

    It's democracy in action
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    If the Blairites were to form a new party they would forever get rid of the union link which has always provided the infrastructure for the hard Left to come back.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:

    I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.

    The Wikipedia page keeps changing.

    Woodcock has gone from the page now;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)

    The latest I hear is that Defence and Work & Pensions is between Woodcock and Gloria de Piero.
  • Any odds or thoughts on when the first resignation from these new appointments will be? A week?

    So kind of Burnam to say that Corbyn would be a 'disaster' and thus write the first question every journalist will ask him as long as he's in the shadow cabinet.
  • Speedy said:

    JonathanD said:

    kle4 said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.


    "Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.

    “Yes,” said Mr Cameron.

    The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html
    Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?
    Long time after
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Cameron has just re-defined the entire meaning of a lucky general.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited September 2015



    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Hypothetically.

    This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.

    As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.

    Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.
    Who would get the Short Money?
  • tyson said:

    Don't forget Leicester's only Dr Fox turned up late to join the party.

    If I could have predicted this TSE, my tax return for next year would be looking considerably healthier.

    tyson said:

    RE; the great Labour re-shuffle

    This is similar to how Manchester Utd felt after the Munich Air Crash.

    @faisalislam: Confirmed: ex Miliband chief of staff Lucy Powell is the new shadow education secretary

    Four months ago in a pub in Broxtowe, you, Roger, Nick Palmer, Tissue Price, Pulpstar and I were discussing politics.

    Not one of us could have predicted any of this.
    Shame on me for forgetting the good Dr Fox.

    I shall do a thread on AV as penance.
    Was that an official PBC do? That would have been quite the one to attend, what with two of you turning up from abroad. Sounds like that would have been very good, if not prescient, conversation.
  • Speedy said:

    JonathanD said:

    kle4 said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    Won't work. Even when straight answers are given, oppositions don't acknowledge them (granted, they are rare), so it's an impossible demand to fulfill.


    "Ed Miliband staked everything on his opening question: would the Prime Minister rule out raising VAT? Having asked it, the Labour leader sat down, confidently awaiting his opponent’s stumbling, circuitous, tellingly evasive answer. After all, there was no way Mr Cameron was going to say yes.

    “Yes,” said Mr Cameron.

    The look on Mr Miliband’s face. It was as if an eagle had swooped out of the sky and swiped the sandwich from his hands.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/pmqs/11494579/PMQs-sketch-David-Cameron-drops-Ed-Miliband-into-a-VAT-of-gunge.html
    Was that before or after Cameron raised VAT ?
    It was last March.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news
  • This has been the most exciting weekend in British politics since the election that never was in 2007.

    Good night all. You've been a wonderful audience.
  • Moses_ said:

    Cameron has just re-defined the entire meaning of a lucky general.

    Time he and George started bulk-buying lottery tickets.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Brilliant! They've been locked in! :)

    https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/643194160384749569

    Can they get out through a secret passage via Downing Street?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    To be fair to the Jezlamists, the BBC IS biased against them. They want centre-left governance but would prefer the centre-right to the hard left. They want mass immigration, the EU and multiculturalism, but not at the expense of their salaries and private schools.
  • @DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
    Depressing same old bullshit then.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.

    I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.

    Huzzah- the tennis is about to start

    GIN1138 said:

    The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.

    Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.

    Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.

    PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.

    I am not sure which way this will go.

    Time will tell.

    Are we getting the first rumblings of:

    JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?
    No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I'm going to defend Corbyn here.

    He's been given an overwhelming mandate. He is entitled to do things his way and appoint whoever he wants.

    It's democracy in action

    He's entitled to do things his way, no question - but it might be prudent to go easy with his own party relations a little.

    Then again, perhaps not. Strike while the iron is hot and all that, and he cannot be authentic with the public and not be radical in all things that he is able.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Damn missed DifD - who's that?
    alex. said:

    DfiD and Defra

    alex. said:

    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?

    We've had DfID. Also there might be Cabinet office?
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    AndyJS said:

    I thought Woodcock's presence on there was a bit unexpected.

    The Wikipedia page keeps changing.

    Woodcock has gone from the page now;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Opposition_Shadow_Cabinet_(United_Kingdom)

    Yes, I'll swear there are more TBA each time I look...
  • Who got DoSac?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    alex. said:

    DfiD and Defra

    alex. said:

    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?

    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Hypothetically.

    This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.

    As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.

    Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.
    Who would get the Short Money?
    They will get it as they will be HMLO. Farron's coach car can be added to it. Of course, the left vote will be split until 2030.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited September 2015
    alex. said:



    Hypothetically.

    This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.

    As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.

    Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.

    Who would get the Short Money?
    Labour would but would get less (due to fewer MPs)

    There is a threshold which New Democracy would not reach (1 FPTP seat/x% of the Vote).
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    @DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
    Depressing same old bullshit then.

    I believe he will criticize Corbyn even if he puts a woman as shadow defence secretary.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    alex. said:






    There is something of the irresistable force meeting the immovable object about all of Corbyn's leadership so far. I hadn't taken seriously the possibility of a split until now but his behaviour is so brazen that you could well understand MPs wondering why it's worth their while remaining with a party that cares neither for their efforts or for the public.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Hypothetically.

    This wasn't a selection contest for Leader of the Opposition, it was for Leader of the Labour Party. Which basically means the leader inherits the top job over an organisation (which the cogs may be falling out of) and a membership (something of a rentamob that is no longer aligned with the vast majority of MPs). The leader only inherits the parliamentary seats so long as they don't up sticks.

    As it stands, Labour have 232 seats. If the New Democrats or whatever they were to badge themselves at could get 117 defectors together (or a bit less but pick up a couple from other parties) then Corbyn would cease to be Leader of the Opposition and that job would fall to the Chief Splittist.

    Plagued by difficulties of course - logistical, financial, organisational, the activist and councillor base, the poor history of such movements succeeding in the long run. But bear in mind that Liz Kendall, so decisively rejected by the Labour grassroots, had 41 PLP nominations (from people who knew what they were letting themselves in for when they plumped for her, and who must now be wary of a blast from constituency memberships if they need to battle it out for a seat under a boundary redrawing) then the number 117 does not look impossibly far away.
    Who would get the Short Money?
    Both, proportionally I believe.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited September 2015

    DfiD and Defra

    alex. said:

    So to recap, what's left? (excluding junior positions - who's going to fill those?)

    Defence
    DWP
    Transport
    Leader of the House
    Energy and Climate Change
    Wales

    any others?

    Women and Equalities??
    Wales?
    Leader of the Commons?
    All the junior whips?
    All the junior ministers??

    oh... shadow attorney general?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    It might actually be the case that Corbyn is going to appoint a shadow Defence Secretary who is strongly in favour of Trident Renewal. We're moving on from parallel realities.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,391
    tyson said:

    Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.

    I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.

    Huzzah- the tennis is about to start

    GIN1138 said:

    The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.

    Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.

    Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.

    PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.

    I am not sure which way this will go.

    Time will tell.

    Are we getting the first rumblings of:

    JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?
    No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).
    Isn't it a bit early to be defining the crapness of Jezza?
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    How many Londoners are in that Shadow Cabinet?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news

    We shouldn't forget that Michael Heseltine did something similar on 27th May 1976:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_grave_disorder_in_the_British_House_of_Commons
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The first of Two Hats

    Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away
  • AndyJS said:

    John McDonnell grabs mace and swings it at Geoff Hoon http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81fc8_rebel-mp-john-mcdonnell-grabs-mace_news

    We shouldn't forget that Michael Heseltine did something similar on 27th May 1976:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_grave_disorder_in_the_British_House_of_Commons
    But he swung it at the opposition, not his own side.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    The first of Two Hats

    Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away

    Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Gaby Hinsliff @gabyhinsliff
    Corbyn gives 5 out of 5 top jobs to men, then. Maybe there'll be a nice women-only section in shad cab, where ladies can feel safe at night?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Y0kel said:

    How many Londoners are in that Shadow Cabinet?

    Excluding Corbyn, 4.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Tweet of the Day?

    Helen Lewis
    @helenlewis
    Oh dear. Just realised Jeremy Corbyn has married more women than he's appointed to great offices of state. Good night.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    alex. said:

    The first of Two Hats

    Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away

    Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.
    I thought deputy leader was already one.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2015
    edit
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Y0kel said:

    How many Londoners are in that Shadow Cabinet?

    Representative though isn't it? Labour is basically a London party now.
  • @DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
    Depressing same old bullshit then.

    Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    alex. said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    After canceling Marr, and now Today, what are the odds he wont appear at PMQs?

    Cam must be pinching himself.

    He could and should make a statement out of PMQs.

    He should ask:

    1. That the PM must give a straight answer to a straight question. No evasion.

    2. The Mob culture must end from all sides.

    The Tories and the Speaker will almost certainly refuse. Corbyn will say he will not participate then.

    The idea that the shouting and jeering is hugely popular with the public is actually misplaced. The public also wants to hear a clear answer to a clear question.

    The PMQ did not start with Magna Carta or 1832. It only started in the 50s. So no great tradition.
    I am not a fan of PMQs but there is no point in requiring the PM to give a straight answer until such time as he is asked straight questions. The vast majority of questions put are a statement followed by a loaded and closed question. If the PM were to give a straight answer to such questions his answers would be one of three, "Yes", "No", "Never". I am not sure that would be what you want. When the questioners start to ask sensible questions then would be the time to make a fuss about not getting sensible answers.

    It would also help if the House returned to the old convention whereby questions that were on a matter of policy had to be answered verbally there and then but questions on matters of fact would be answered later in writing.

    Surbiton's been pushing this nonsense all day, and has continually ignored the reality that there is nothing the Prime Minister would like more than abolishing PMQs, or as a compromise, not having the LOTO asking him anything!
    Good. So let's abolish this farce !
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Speedy said:

    alex. said:

    The first of Two Hats

    Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away

    Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.
    I thought deputy leader was already one.
    Party job. Harriet Harman had a Parliamentary job (several i think)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited September 2015
    But he won't be standing in for Jezza at PMQs? - that's odd if true
    Speedy said:

    alex. said:

    The first of Two Hats

    Sam Coates Times @SamCoatesTimes
    Labour: Angela Eagle will be shadow First Secretary of State as well as Shadow BIS. She'll deputise for Corbyn in PMQs when Cameron is away

    Just noticed that Tom Watson wasn't given a job.
    I thought deputy leader was already one.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Of course not- it's not too early. Jez is not crap- he's actually quite smooth and polished. Crapness is something you either have or don't- you're born with it.. Ed had it in spades, and Jez doesn't.
    GIN1138 said:

    tyson said:

    Ed was crap and will never be Prime Minister. Jeremy will never be prime minister.

    I don't think Labour will ever pick as crap a leader as Ed Miliband. Jeremy is not crap. He's not Ed, he's not IDS or Hague, or Gordon Brown- a rogues gallery of crappy leaders. Jeremy is just unelectable. A subtle but important difference.

    Huzzah- the tennis is about to start

    GIN1138 said:

    The most common comment I got canvassing was they are all the same.

    Not now clear water between Tories and a more equal society is on offer while ever Corbyn remains.

    Lets see if Labour are wiped out or gain ground as a result of the clear water.

    PB Tories are 100% certain the public will not like Jezza policies.

    I am not sure which way this will go.

    Time will tell.

    Are we getting the first rumblings of:

    JCICIPM Vs JCWNBPM?
    No, if it was EICIPM, then it should really be just JICIPM (or JWNBPM, if you prefer!).
    Isn't it a bit early to be defining the crapness of Jezza?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2015
    AndyJS said:
    To all my defence, Jack is a male name.
    I really didn't knew she was a woman.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    @DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
    Depressing same old bullshit then.

    Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!
    Thornberry will be there. Also Eagle. But Cooper threw the toys out of the pram. Will Harriet take a job or given one ?
  • It gets worse... better... more surreal. Zoe Ball tipped to join Top Gear. Bad appointment by Jezza.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    TSE can you add some more tweets, I've been sharing at the prediction that this would be over at 10pm for too long. I've got work today.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    AndyJS said:

    The backlash begins:

    twitter.com/DrJackMonroe/status/643195043445125120?lang=en-gb

    Monroe is a Green now.

    However, it does indicate how likely Corbyn is to attract Green returners - basically he isn't going to.
  • Just have to say how amazing PB as a site and is a fabulous source of information. Well done to everyone responsible and now time to log off as all my mobiles and tablets have run out of battery power. Best wishes to all
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm off - I won't be up for Defence :wink:
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    surbiton said:

    @DrJackMonroe: For all the promise of equality, there appear to be no women in lead roles in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
    Depressing same old bullshit then.

    Not his fault the leading ladies flounced out of the ShadCab!
    Thornberry will be there. Also Eagle. But Cooper threw the toys out of the pram. Will Harriet take a job or given one ?
    What's Thornberry's job?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    edited September 2015
    JEO said:

    If the Blairites were to form a new party they would forever get rid of the union link which has always provided the infrastructure for the hard Left to come back.

    And forever get rid of the £££££££.

    That's why it won't happen, instead they will wait out Corbyn even if it takes five years. There are no City hedgies waiting to back Labour - even New Labour. Money is power and the unions are the main source apart from people with lots of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited September 2015
    This is probably not a fresh observation, but I liked a description of Marxism on, yes, the telegraph, as the people being the justification for everything but whose opinions can safely be ignored. Always seemed to be the case with extreme ideologies, convinced the people agree with them, but never actually show it electorally.

    Good night all. Corbyn better not disappoint us by knuckling down and doing a boring job from now on.
  • surbiton said:

    So, you suggest, 60% of the Party's voices [ whether correct or not ] should be ignored ? Maybe , professional politicians can't get their head round it.

    They shouldn't be ignored. They should be made to leave.
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