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Let’s Talk Election Security – part 1 of 3 – politicalbetting.com

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,279
    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,670

    Anyone here share my view that Japan are stonking good value at 9/2 in their upcoming match against Brazil?

    They're a serious team and despite Brazil's performance against Scotland, the boys from Brazil look eminently beatable to me.

    Maybe laying Brazil at 4/5 is the bet, as the longer it goes the more it is likely to favour Japan, and they certainly won't mind going into extra team.

    Dyor, as ever, but I'm on.

    Nice tip so far.
    I promise to be suitably modest about it if it comes in, TSE.

    Japan are playing well though, as I thought they would.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168
    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Japan lead - apparently.

    Yes, thanks to ITV player for having a moment so I missed the goal.
    I've opted for radio in the garden tonight. So I heard it but like you didn't see it. It sounded good.
    If you did watch it, you'd notice that Brazil and Japan are playing in yellow and white respectively - at a distance a tad confusing!
    Ah well that's where the radio is better. I have my own mental pictures. I'm seeing Brazil in yellow and Japan in blue.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,305

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who will grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d

    For China, this is a long-term project.
    So change the Constitution. That’s what the Founding Fathers intended. They definitely didn’t intend for a Supreme Court to become a partisan body effectively inventing new laws.
    That requires 34 states to agree and isn't going to happen especially in the time frame that Trump has left. Hence the (ab)use of the Supreme Court.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,979
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Which was a fall from the prior tax year
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,213
    edited 6:07PM
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 256
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    What’s 3rd world got to do with it.

    Millions of Europeans including Scot’s and Irish crossed the Atlantic and their children became citizens?

    Peter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,979
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Stamp Duty on share transactions is one I’d get rid of and couple that with a real effort to reverse the decline in IPO’s/delisting on the stock exchange.

    Several big companies are currently under bid and this is just a rolling thing

    If the UK won’t value them others will.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    Casemiro. So many times he did that for United this year.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,210
    Oh, well. Brazil equalise.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,763
    I note the passing of Penelope Keith.

    She was High Sheriff and a Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Surrey in the early 2000s.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Stamp Duty on share transactions is one I’d get rid of and couple that with a real effort to reverse the decline in IPO’s/delisting on the stock exchange.

    Several big companies are currently under bid and this is just a rolling thing

    If the UK won’t value them others will.
    We need London to become the capital market of Europe once again. Anything that gets in the road of that needs to be looked at very carefully.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,584
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Going to be a lot of policy and textual analysis of Andy Burnham's speech. But all that really matters at the moment is that he looks a bit different and sounds a bit different. And that should be enough to get him a hearing from the British public. Which is what he needs.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2071553912893526362

    I’m certainly happy with what I heard. Snippets only I’ve been out for a bike ride earlier.

    Like all,here, I wish him well and hope he succeeds. I’ve said I won’t vote Labour again after the Starmer disaster. I’ve even said I’d consider Reform. However if he does succeed in, at least turning it around, and does start doing stuff that genuinely helps the regions I’d consider labour again

    However Burnham needs to realise the North is not JUST Manchester.
    Is Manchester really the North? Same with Yorkshire. Growing up in Scotland and Tyneside I've always struggled to think of places you can drive to from London in time for breakfast as the "North"...
    You can tell a true northerner: he believes that the north ends 15 miles south of where he was born.
    I'm a true northener, by residence. And the north ends somewhere around Basildon :wink:
    Where’s the furthest North sign on the M1, A1 or M6, that says “THE NORTH” on it?

    ISTR one on the M1 around Sheffield, but it’s been a while since I’ve been anywhere near there.
    Scotch Corner - because it's the last point where you can sanely go West for about the next 70 miles.

    Isn’t that by the mandarin oriental in Knightsbridge??
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,540
    DavidL said:

    To be honest this Brazilian performance is not making this Scot feel any better. This is a very ordinary Brazilian team and they hammered us.

    Casemiro !!!!
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,492
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Scrapping CGT is a surefire way to create utter chaos in our tax system.

    Want to see trillions of taxable income suddenly magically become capital gains just like that? Then abolish CGT. No amount of anti avoidance legislation can vanquish human nature.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who will grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d

    For China, this is a long-term project.
    Though given China has a fertility rate barely more than half that of the USA, they may want some of them to return home
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,492
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Stamp Duty on share transactions is one I’d get rid of and couple that with a real effort to reverse the decline in IPO’s/delisting on the stock exchange.

    Several big companies are currently under bid and this is just a rolling thing

    If the UK won’t value them others will.
    On the other hand scrapping stamp duty on shares is absolutely a no brainer and should be done tomorrow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    stodge said:

    I note the passing of Penelope Keith.

    She was High Sheriff and a Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Surrey in the early 2000s.

    The PM program inevitably had an excerpt from The Good Life. It was brilliantly funny. She was superb in both that and To a Manor Born.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,844

    Kemi Badenoch compares Ed Miliband to a Nigerian military dictator.

    https://x.com/spectator/status/2071561826916073777

    Kemi Badenoch is deranged.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,584

    FFS

    Have we really turned A/C into another fucking culture war?

    It started decades ago because A/C was associated with American excess. Michael Caine mocked the way people in Florida have A/C on full all the time, while off course having air conditioning in his own place in Surrey.
    Why would he need a/c? Wouldn’t he just blow the bloody doors off?

    (I’ll get my coat)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,485
    edited 6:27PM
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    I’m conflicted on this. Taxing gains to wealth seems absurd to me - the antithesis of social mobility. Far better to tax the stock of wealth where possible - property and land.

    OTOH, I think the lesson from other countries is personal taxation is far better than taxes on businesses - and almost all of my capital gains (except my house) are overseas equities, which doesn’t help the UK economy too much. And it’s a deeply regressive cut, all held equal.

    Edit: plus MelonB’s obvious point
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,210
    To be fair to ITV, they do NOT go to commercials during the so-called hydration break.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who will grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d

    For China, this is a long-term project.
    Though given China has a fertility rate barely more than half that of the USA, they may want some of them to return home
    I remember Zhou En Lai speaking to Nixon who was wittering about freedom of movement in the west. He suddenly looked interested. You want some Chinese? How many, 1m? 2m? Instant back pedalling by Nixon. Of course this was in the days when fertility rates were less of an issue for China.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,492
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    I’m conflicted on this. Taxing gains to wealth seems absurd to me - the antithesis of social mobility. Far better to tax the stock of wealth where possible - property and land.

    OTOH, I think the lesson from other countries is personal taxation is far better than taxes on businesses - and almost all of my capital gains (except my house) are overseas equities, which doesn’t help the UK economy too much. And it’s a deeply regressive cut, all held equal.

    Edit: plus MelonB’s obvious point
    The right answer is to equalise income tax and CGT rates, but bring back indexation so that people are not simply taxed on inflation, and introduce long term tapering as France does so that the actual tax charge reduces towards zero (in France it's 22 years).
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,067
    edited 6:43PM
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    I’m conflicted on this. Taxing gains to wealth seems absurd to me - the antithesis of social mobility. Far better to tax the stock of wealth where possible - property and land.

    OTOH, I think the lesson from other countries is personal taxation is far better than taxes on businesses - and almost all of my capital gains (except my house) are overseas equities, which doesn’t help the UK economy too much. And it’s a deeply regressive cut, all held equal.

    Edit: plus MelonB’s obvious point
    Why is taxing gains to wealth any more absurd than taxing income?

    I'm being a productive member of society earning plenty of money. And the government takes almost 50% of it. Why should capital gains be tax free? Subject to indexation and at a sensible rate, but I fail to see why there should be such a large relative subsidy of capital versus labour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,878

    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1

    — Andy Burnham plans to have a deputy No. 10 chief of staff based in Manchester
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Ah, the old 'favourable treatment for wealthy people benefits everyone' chestnut. It does the rounds, that one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,333

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    The Supreme Court follows its own precedents by and large and they’ve ruled on this multiple times before.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,979

    To be fair to ITV, they do NOT go to commercials during the so-called hydration break.

    They’re not going to be doing it with the Rugby now either next weekend.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    I can’t see Barrett doing away with birthright citizenship.
    They don't need her, though.
    And Roberts will be writing the opinion.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,979
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Ah, the old 'favourable treatment for wealthy people benefits everyone' chestnut. It does the rounds, that one.
    Says a resident of Millionaires row.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,333
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who will grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d

    For China, this is a long-term project.
    So change the Constitution. That’s what the Founding Fathers intended. They definitely didn’t intend for a Supreme Court to become a partisan body effectively inventing new laws.
    That requires 34 states to agree and isn't going to happen especially in the time frame that Trump has left. Hence the (ab)use of the Supreme Court.
    If Trump, and Sandpit, think they have a compelling case, they can make it to the voters and get 34 states to agree.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168
    MelonB said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    I’m conflicted on this. Taxing gains to wealth seems absurd to me - the antithesis of social mobility. Far better to tax the stock of wealth where possible - property and land.

    OTOH, I think the lesson from other countries is personal taxation is far better than taxes on businesses - and almost all of my capital gains (except my house) are overseas equities, which doesn’t help the UK economy too much. And it’s a deeply regressive cut, all held equal.

    Edit: plus MelonB’s obvious point
    The right answer is to equalise income tax and CGT rates, but bring back indexation so that people are not simply taxed on inflation, and introduce long term tapering as France does so that the actual tax charge reduces towards zero (in France it's 22 years).
    Yes. Equalise and index. Fair (on inflation) and no incentive to 'structure' one thing as another thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who will grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d

    For China, this is a long-term project.
    So change the Constitution. That’s what the Founding Fathers intended. They definitely didn’t intend for a Supreme Court to become a partisan body effectively inventing new laws.
    It has been doing that for a very long time.
    But rewriting the plain text of the constitution itself is well beyond that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,228

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    The Supreme Court follows its own precedents by and large and they’ve ruled on this multiple times before.
    Their recent precedent is to ignore Supreme Court precedents and the constitution and to instead follow whatever ridiculous effluence comes out of the orange one's arse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    That's just bullshit, william. You argue as though the U.S. hasn't had immigration - and far more porous borders than now - throughout its history.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824


    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1

    — Andy Burnham plans to have a deputy No. 10 chief of staff based in Manchester

    CCHQ needs to work on some lines for Kemi hinting that Burnham favouring his own patch for investment is tantamount to corruption.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    Ah, the old 'favourable treatment for wealthy people benefits everyone' chestnut. It does the rounds, that one.
    Says a resident of Millionaires row.
    Lol. Yes he does.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,632
    DavidL said:

    I genuinely want Burnham to do well because we so need a government that knows what it wants to do. But, I have to ask, is that it? That's his vision? Don't get me wrong, its closer to that vision thing than Starmer ever got, but jeez. We have so many horrendous problems that our entire political class of every stripe has tried so hard to avoid talking about for a very, very long time and we are worrying about devolution and having part of the government in the north. Wow.

    Agree about the question, but I think it's inevitable that we shall have to wait and see. He will need so much strength to do all the right things for the country, and keep the Labour party/MPs onside, and keep Reform at bay, and win the next election that he needs to shore up the base and those capable of giving him a chance (I am one) before bit by bit undertaking the task of reforming the country, running stuff well, making the right calls, and upsetting the 'spend more and tax others' brigade.

    For the moment it's enough to start reminding us our cup is half full, not half empty, that adversarial knockabout is for losers, and form a miraculously good team. He will be better at team building than Starmer, not only because he could not be worse but because of who he is. Nice to have a leader in waiting who is comfortable with himself and with the human race. What a contrast with Starmer, Kemi and Farage.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363
    Legendary pharma industry commentator Derek Lowe says "the Trump administration is trying to destroy federally-funded research in the US as we know it and replace it with cronyism and worse."

    And who's not speaking up about it? The CEOs of major biopharma companies.

    Lowe calls this "odd," apparently using the word the same way I do. (It translates to "batshit crazy.")

    He points out:
    "(1) the great majority of the employees at these companies came through that exact funding system at some point in their careers, and (2) since the industry depends on the basic science research funded this way to make its own advances in applied and clinical applications."

    He has an explanation, though. He thinks they're all scared.

    https://x.com/matthewherper/status/2071625539342004360
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352
    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363
    The interesting thing about william and Sandpit's takes, is that they indicate a general belief by the MAGA side of US politics that the Supreme Court is likely to abolish birthright citizenship.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,210
    Looks like Brazil win the game right at the end!

    2-1
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,959
    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Be funny if he took the door up north though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,363
    Damn !
    Japan ran out of energy I think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    Brazil have deserved this in the second half to be fair. Japan looked knackered.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,279
    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    That's just bullshit, william. You argue as though the U.S. hasn't had immigration - and far more porous borders than now - throughout its history.
    Pre Hart-Celler it was very selective and they had ethnic quotas.
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 1,038

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Be funny if he took the door up north though.
    and change it to be dark blue
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824
    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,485
    Ratters said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good growth in every uk postcode.

    Does that mean I get a wage tax increase?
    Fixed for you...
    One of my unfulfilled ambitions is to pay CGT. Never quite managed it, sadly.
    All I can say is you aren't trying hard enough. We have found a wheeze that might avoid it but then it does require one of us to die sadly. Even then it is a challenge.
    378,000 people paid CGT in the last tax year. 0.7% of the adult population. It raised £13b.

    Not a major player in Fiscal Corner.
    Yes it’s better off scrapped entirely. The positive effect on investment would outweigh it with taxes on employment and business profits.

    So long as those investors were reassured that the CGT changes would hold for more than two years until the next government reverses it.
    I’m conflicted on this. Taxing gains to wealth seems absurd to me - the antithesis of social mobility. Far better to tax the stock of wealth where possible - property and land.

    OTOH, I think the lesson from other countries is personal taxation is far better than taxes on businesses - and almost all of my capital gains (except my house) are overseas equities, which doesn’t help the UK economy too much. And it’s a deeply regressive cut, all held equal.

    Edit: plus MelonB’s obvious point
    Why is taxing gains to wealth any more absurd than taxing income?

    I'm being a productive member of society earning plenty of money. And the government takes almost 50% of it. Why should capital gains be tax free? Subject to indexation and at a sensible rate, but I fail to see why there should be such a large relative subsidy of capital an versus labour.
    Just a different macro perspective. We have miserable investment record as a country (both private and public), while our employment rate is at a sustained and historical high (despite the Boriswave etc etc). I think encouraging the former should always be the priority, particularly for those on lower incomes.

    But like I said in my first post, there are a number of other reasons why it isnt a great idea. And ISAs already play that role.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,657
    Personally, I think it is hard to justify the continuation of birthright citizenship. But I don't think constitutional amendments should be overrideable by executive orders.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168
    Both KO games so far won in dramatic fashion by a high quality last ditch goal. Incredible stuff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352
    'Britons tend to support the government's decision to scrap the two century-old law that made rough sleeping a criminal offence

    Support: 46%
    Oppose: 39%'

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2071621980378239486?s=20
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,959

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    So "Number 10 North" is just code for "Burnham doesn't fancy packing up and moving"?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,333
    edited 7:09PM
    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    That's just bullshit, william. You argue as though the U.S. hasn't had immigration - and far more porous borders than now - throughout its history.
    Immigrants like Trump’s mum, Trump’s first wife, Trump’s third wife, Trump’s parents-in-law, Vance’s parents-in-law, Trump’s paternal grandparents, Rubio’s parents, Rubio’s parents-in-law, Jared Kushner’s paternal grandparents, John Thune’s mother and paternal grandfather, and so on.

    EDIT: Add Alito’s dad and maternal grandfather.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,670
    DavidL said:

    Brazil have deserved this in the second half to be fair. Japan looked knackered.

    Yeah, they won on merit, and another good value loser for me. :(
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282
    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I think it is hard to justify the continuation of birthright citizenship. But I don't think constitutional amendments should be overrideable by executive orders.

    Or a SC making it up as they go along.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,670


    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1

    — Andy Burnham plans to have a deputy No. 10 chief of staff based in Manchester

    Job for Billy No-Mates.

    "Andy likes and trusts me so much he appointed me to a job a couple of hundred miles away from him."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,228

    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Look, I prefer our system of Parliamentary supremacy over the US written constitution. But the GOP seem to worship the founding farmers, in particular when it comes to the right to bear arms applying to mentally unstable men carrying assault rifles. If they don't like some of the clear cut constitutional lines such as the above that go against their politics, then they need to change the constitution.

    Can't have it both ways.
    The 14th amendment wasn't written by the founding fathers and it was introduced in the context of cases disputing the citizenship of freed slaves. It wasn't written with anchor babies in mind and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" can reasonably be interpreted to exclude them.
    That's just bullshit, william. You argue as though the U.S. hasn't had immigration - and far more porous borders than now - throughout its history.
    Immigrants like Trump’s mum, Trump’s first wife, Trump’s third wife, Trump’s parents-in-law, Vance’s parents-in-law, Trump’s paternal grandparents, Rubio’s parents, Rubio’s parents-in-law, Jared Kushner’s paternal grandparents, John Thune’s mother and paternal grandfather, and so on.
    In which case, if the immigrants really are that bad, maybe it should be stopped?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,279
    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,657
    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    I note the passing of Penelope Keith.

    She was High Sheriff and a Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Surrey in the early 2000s.

    The PM program inevitably had an excerpt from The Good Life. It was brilliantly funny. She was superb in both that and To a Manor Born.
    It's funny; in my mind she was a lot older than my parents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352
    edited 7:10PM

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,162

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    What are the chances this makes government even more dysfunctional?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,293

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    Presumably he'll attend the Commons? I don't see how Downing st can't be his residence, his security detail will do their nut if he suggests he's going to rent a modest 2 bed flat as a London pied a terre.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,293

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    Presumably he'll attend the Commons? I don't see how Downing st can't be his residence, his security detail will do their nut if he suggests he's going to rent a modest 2 bed flat as a London pied a terre.
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 1,038

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    I'm quite interested as the actual location for the No10 of the North office.

    Presumably it will require significant security and Manc really is not that big so there cannot be that may options.

    I'm thinking around Piccadilly somewhere, but nowhere springs to mind (until the Mayfield stuff is ready, but that is years away).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,168

    Dan Bloom
    @danbloom1

    — Andy Burnham plans to have a deputy No. 10 chief of staff based in Manchester

    Josh Simons?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,959
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    He's aiming to be the first hybrid PM. Two days a week he will be PM on Teams or Zoom only. Maybe.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,670

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He's going to have to be down in the Commons frequently, and unless he moves Whitehall entire up north the whole machinery of government is there. He's hardly going to commute every day.

    I'm certain he'll end up sleeping many nights in Number Ten, but I guess when I was working in London during the week for months I didn't move there.

    We'll see how long this lasts. I can imagine some of the papers being very interested in where he is sleeping each night now.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    That's one heck of a commute (and carbon footprint) if Burnham and entourage will be travelling daily between London and Manchester.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,280
    edited 7:13PM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    Really? Sounds more like he will do a weekly commute to London, stopping over for 3-4 nights, as thousands do.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,763
    HYUFD said:

    'Britons tend to support the government's decision to scrap the two century-old law that made rough sleeping a criminal offence

    Support: 46%
    Oppose: 39%'

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/2071621980378239486?s=20

    I'm no expert in rough sleeping (well, not since my Inter Rail days in the 80s) or the Vagrancy Act but I thought one of the provisions was it outlawed asking for money.

    People can sit there with signs but as long as they don't make a direct verbal request for money (and aren't causing an obstruction), the local Police in East Ham usually leave them alone.

    They have their pitches where they think the rich people go - outside the bookies, the 99p shop (not the 89p shop, it's a cut throat world in discount retail) and Lidl. Some travel - the older ones have 60+ Oyster cards, the younger ones just push through the barriers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,878
    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,280
    A bad day to bury good news?

    "Resident doctors in England accept pay deal and end strikes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy01n5z48qo
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    He's aiming to be the first hybrid PM. Two days a week he will be PM on Teams or Zoom only. Maybe.
    He's definitely standing down as Mayor of Manchester?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He's going to have to be down in the Commons frequently, and unless he moves Whitehall entire up north the whole machinery of government is there. He's hardly going to commute every day.

    I'm certain he'll end up sleeping many nights in Number Ten, but I guess when I was working in London during the week for months I didn't move there.

    We'll see how long this lasts. I can imagine some of the papers being very interested in where he is sleeping each night now.
    I worked in London with a couple of people who commuted weekly and stayed in a flat during the week, returning home at the weekend. I guess it depends where he calls home.

    What is more interesting is that if Burnham will not be using Chequers at weekends, then he can give it as a consolation prize to a Cabinet member (or even a former Prime Minister).
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 1,038
    Do prime minsiters and presidents from other countries meet AB at his London or Manchester No10 in the future for state visits?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,228

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    Exactly, we should really be focusing on debating the merits of all the policies he promises, even though we know he won't be able to deliver them and will be kicked out in 18 months anyway.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,670
    RobD said:

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    What are the chances this makes government even more dysfunctional?
    Well, equally there's a chance that removing decision-making from Whitehall physically might improve it.

    Anything is worth a go at this stage.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,279
    RobD said:

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    What are the chances this makes government even more dysfunctional?
    It will be our own version of rotating between Brussels and Strasbourg, proving that we don't need the EU to create such waste.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824

    A bad day to bury good news?

    "Resident doctors in England accept pay deal and end strikes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy01n5z48qo

    Poor Wes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,162

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    Really? Sounds more like he will do a weekly commute to London, stopping over for 3-4 nights, as thousands do.
    Those thousands tend not to have an entourage.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,293
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    7-8 hours on the West Coast mainline every day or did Sunak leave the keys to the chopper?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,763
    Obviously, in today's modern world, there's no requirement for the Prime Minister to live above their workplace.

    If Andy Burnham wants to live in Manchester or Penzance or Stornaway, that shouldn't be any kind of impediment to being able to do the job.

    I mean, the King and Queen aren't going to live in Buckingham Palace but use Clarence House and no one seems that bothered. We need to get out of the 20th century mindset of associating places with roles - the world has changed.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,824
    Coming soon: a demarcation dispute between GMP and the Met as to who guards the PM. Where will his security detail live?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,688

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    I'm quite interested as the actual location for the No10 of the North office.

    Presumably it will require significant security and Manc really is not that big so there cannot be that may options.

    I'm thinking around Piccadilly somewhere, but nowhere springs to mind (until the Mayfield stuff is ready, but that is years away).
    In my Civil Service days we had spacious offices right outside Piccadilly Station - very convenient. Maybe he could acquire them?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,878
    I thought the Basic Law was to do with beer but he is an economist:



    Will Hutton
    @williamnhutton
    ·
    1h
    Andy Burnham refreshingly speaks human. But put aside the creation of No 10 North . The promise today to introduce something equivalent to Germany’s Article 107 of its Basic Law, equalising the resource available to every German region, is mind-blowing. This is real levelling up

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2071657774254055842
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,657
    @Sandpit

    A serious question for you: do you really believe a non-negligible number of non-citizens vote in US elections? If so, how are they able to avoid detection? And if not, what's the rationale for imposing draconian measures?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,234
    Have you seen the prices in London?

    I don't blame Andy Burnham wanting to say in the North as much as possible.

    Recently in London I paid £6 a bottle for a 330ml bottle of Coke plus the service charge!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,349
    edited 7:24PM

    https://x.com/dpjhodges/status/2071644298882249078

    Latest on Burnham’s plans:

    * As PM he will spend a minimum of a day a week in “No.10 North”

    * He will not use No.10 as his main residence. His primary home will remain in the North West

    * Senior advisors have already begun work on establishing the Northern Downing Street

    I'm quite interested as the actual location for the No10 of the North office.

    Presumably it will require significant security and Manc really is not that big so there cannot be that may options.

    I'm thinking around Piccadilly somewhere, but nowhere springs to mind (until the Mayfield stuff is ready, but that is years away).
    The Roebuck in Urmston

    Should have been the Yates Wine Lodge but thats closed
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,657
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    President Trump's Truth Social account is full of his reactions to various defeats and victories in the Supreme Court as it wraps things up for holibobs. I can't be bothered to go through them.

    Has he had any victories lately?
    There's a theory that the SC has given the liberals the voting case decision, as they are softening up public opinion, since they're intending to do away with birthright citizenship, which would be a massively controversial (and constitutionally extremely dubious) decision.
    The estimate is 100,000 Chinese nationals giving birth in the US every year.

    Kids who wil grow up in China, learning Chinese values, but have a right to live and vote in the US once they turn 18.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/huge-scale-of-chinese-birth-tourism-may-impact-scotus-ruling-on-birthright-citizenship-author-says/ar-AA1UCH7d
    There's an established procedure for changing the text of the constitution.
    It does not involve the Supreme Court doing so by dictat.
    The intention of the framers was to cover slaves and the children of slaves, not to allow birth tourism from the 3rd world.

    The constitution didn’t codify abortion or gay marriage either, but that didn’t stop the Supreme Court ruling as they did.
    The words are what the words are.

    If you want to change it -and I would support changing it- then get the votes to change it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352

    Have you seen the prices in London?

    I don't blame Andy Burnham wanting to say in the North as much as possible.

    Recently in London I paid £6 a bottle for a 330ml bottle of Coke plus the service charge!

    Yes but the PM gets his own cooks at No 10 and chef at Chequers as part of the job and is on a six figure salary
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,162

    I thought the Basic Law was to do with beer but he is an economist:



    Will Hutton
    @williamnhutton
    ·
    1h
    Andy Burnham refreshingly speaks human. But put aside the creation of No 10 North . The promise today to introduce something equivalent to Germany’s Article 107 of its Basic Law, equalising the resource available to every German region, is mind-blowing. This is real levelling up

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2071657774254055842

    Less money for Scotland then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,352
    stodge said:

    Obviously, in today's modern world, there's no requirement for the Prime Minister to live above their workplace.

    If Andy Burnham wants to live in Manchester or Penzance or Stornaway, that shouldn't be any kind of impediment to being able to do the job.

    I mean, the King and Queen aren't going to live in Buckingham Palace but use Clarence House and no one seems that bothered. We need to get out of the 20th century mindset of associating places with roles - the world has changed.

    Clarence House is a few minutes walk from Buckingham Palace, Manchester is the other side of the country from Downing St
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,670
    stodge said:

    Obviously, in today's modern world, there's no requirement for the Prime Minister to live above their workplace.

    If Andy Burnham wants to live in Manchester or Penzance or Stornaway, that shouldn't be any kind of impediment to being able to do the job.

    I mean, the King and Queen aren't going to live in Buckingham Palace but use Clarence House and no one seems that bothered. We need to get out of the 20th century mindset of associating places with roles - the world has changed.

    The role of Prime Minister is a bit different. Where are all the other cabinet ministers going to be? If the PM is mostly in Manchester, but the Commons is in Westminster, what does that say about the primacy of Parliament? And security for all this is going to be a nightmare.

    Can you lead a government from a distance of 150 miles?

    I'm open to the idea of moving government, the whole thing, away from London, but this looks like a gimmick.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,688
    Breaking news - Burnham has announced that Manchester is to be designated our capital city, replacing London.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,282

    A bad day to bury good news?

    "Resident doctors in England accept pay deal and end strikes"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy01n5z48qo

    Poor Wes.
    Think he's been vindicated to be honest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,016
    Dopermean said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Andy Burnham reportedly has no plans to live in No 10 and will remain at his home in Manchester

    It would make him the first PM since Harold Wilson not to live in No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2071656704941441060?s=20

    Technically the PM sometimes lives at Number 11, whose flat is larger. But do they mean Burnham will not even work at Number 10 and will remain in its northern outpost?
    He will work at his new Northern Number 10 at least one day a week apparently and will spend every night in Manchester not No 10
    7-8 hours on the West Coast mainline every day or did Sunak leave the keys to the chopper?
    Appalling - why did you not think to quote the illustrious Austrian philosopher on the matter?


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