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Who will be the next Foreign Secretary? – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 34,208

    dixiedean said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Why 0.48?
    Why not 0.5? It's so close as to make no difference and would be easier to work out.
    Hope it's going to go on empty properties held as investments too.
    I think it's x2 on investment, second properties etc. Should be x5
    Who is paying it if the house is owned by a landlord and let on a long term basis?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,050
    @DecrepiterJohnL you asked on a previous thread regarding success with our new portable Aircon unit (designed in part for young children sleep / play):

    1) It's very effective at cooling the room it's in once the window is set-up for the exhaust. To move between rooms on the same floor you need to set up the new window again (or have multiple ready, we haven't done that yet). Need a bit of strength to move between floors. Essentially, it's best to plan one room you want to keep cool in the heat and shut the door - any room on the far side of the stairwell will barely feel a thing.

    2) That said, for it's intended purpose it works very well. Multiple settings, the highest is quite loud but not deafening, once the room is cooled before bedtime you can lower it or move to night mode that isn't louder than a standard tower fan. Absolutely fine to sleep in unless very sensitive to what is essentially white noise, as haven't noticed any mechanical clunking. I did get a newly released 'super quiet' one mind.

    3) Ignoring sleep, it's great to have a room in the house you can go to to reliably cool down from the heat. In our case particularly for children playing.

    4) It also works as a heater and dehumidifier. Unsurprisingly not had much use to test them yet.

    My main regret so far is not getting two so my room can be cool at night too!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Why 0.48?
    Why not 0.5? It's so close as to make no difference and would be easier to work out.
    Hope it's going to go on empty properties held as investments too.
    I think it's x2 on investment, second properties etc. Should be x5
    Who is paying it if the house is owned by a landlord and let on a long term basis?
    The landlord. Hopefully it encourages him to sell and makes more properties available to buy for people to live in.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137
    Another howler! What are they doing??
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,536
    Double oops
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,108
    FFS!!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,465
    edited June 24
    Not another one

    VAR rescue

    Scotland 0 Brasil 1
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    edited June 24
    Oh dear.

    Men and boys.

    Phew. Good old VAR

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,361
    Bejesus
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 810
    Whats Colin Calderwood up to these days? I see a job for him
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,206
    Like I said, they are outclassed and it’s definitely soon enough to tell. Any post you may have read saying otherwise must have been someone hacking my account.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,536
    DoctorG said:

    Whats Colin Calderwood up to these days? I see a job for him

    Swindon Legend. Once scored from near the half way line.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 226

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137
    Disallowed - still 1-0
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 226

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,108
    VAR is awesome
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,536
    Foul! Always said VAR was great
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,536
    The Scots can owe Frank Lampard for that one.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,361

    Disallowed - still 1-0

    Softest of the soft VAR overrule, but technically justifiable.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 810
    Fortunate! The Donald doesn't want his 'B' team dumped out
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,470

    dixiedean said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Why 0.48?
    Why not 0.5? It's so close as to make no difference and would be easier to work out.
    Hope it's going to go on empty properties held as investments too.
    I think it's x2 on investment, second properties etc. Should be x5
    It's half of a good policy. But there are two missed opportunities here:

    1. It is a perfect candidate for tax devolution. Let local authorities set the rates. The danger is this further centralises collection, rather than the opposite. I'm surprised given this comes from someone who's supposedly a devo fan
    2. It should be set on land value, not house value
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137

    The Scots can owe Frank Lampard for that one.

    Hammer FOR the Scots?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    A full revaluation of every property for this purpose would take at least 5 years??
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,229
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "PollCheck
    @poll_checker

    Westminster VI with Andy Burnham hypothetically leading Labour

    Lab: 21% (Starmer) / 27% (Burnham)
    Ref: 28% (Starmer) / 26% (Burnham)

    PollCheck seat projections:
    Starmer: Reform 253, Labour 142
    Burnham: Labour 252, Reform 141

    Via: More in Common"

    https://x.com/poll_checker/status/2069795933290721282

    That's more like it.
    Don't fully understand why that would lead to the Tories going up one, mind?
    FPTP at such polling is weird.

    I think the wider theory is that if Reform don't look like winners, they will then lose some of their fair-weather support which is really Tories chasing a winner. So even if Reform still lead the Tories, if the former are not looking like coming top of the polls they will start to bleed back to the latter.
    Burham might also lose some centrist Starmer backers to the Tories, even if he squeezes the Greens and LDs and to an extent Reform
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,050

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The great thing about his policy is 1) it's an economically sensible idea that gets rid of the awful stamp duty that discourages labour mobility and older people downsizing, 2) it is a levelling up policy that favours the north and other regions which is favourable politically, and 3) it will apply downward pressure on house prices in the most expensive regions.

    A very good start if true. Balancing good politics with good economics.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411
    edited June 24

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    I smell not enough time remaining in parliament to get that through, plus the undoubted legal challenges.

    The implied revaluation is more difficult than the actual tax changes. If it does happen, I bet the council tax 1991 valuations survive.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    dixiedean said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Why 0.48?
    Why not 0.5? It's so close as to make no difference and would be easier to work out.
    Hope it's going to go on empty properties held as investments too.
    As a Remainer maybe .48% is a deliberately political proposal. If Burnham had won the EU Referendum, maybe it would have been ,52%
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411
    edited June 24
    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The great thing about his policy is 1) it's an economically sensible idea that gets rid of the awful stamp duty that discourages labour mobility and older people downsizing, 2) it is a levelling up policy that favours the north and other regions which is favourable politically, and 3) it will apply downward pressure on house prices in the most expensive regions.

    A very good start if true. Balancing good politics with good economics.
    But if there's a £1200 cap where does the money come from? The deficit would be billions upon billions, surely? I'm in a Band A property with a 25% discount and I pay £1200 already. Something missing from this story...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,879
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jun/24/mamdani-new-york-primaries-midterms-democrats-republicans-trump-250-anniversary-politics-latest-updates#top-of-blog

    Donald Trump once again devoted a large portion of an Oval Office event to insisting, without evidence, that his troubled renovation of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, plagued by algae blooms and a peeling polyurethane liner, was actually caused by vandals.

    Asked by a reporter if the repairs to the pool would be completed by the Fourth of July, Trump said, “It’s in great shape” before launching into a 1300-word monologue on how the project was done perfectly, but then sabotaged by “thugs” who “went down with probably a box cutter, or a very sharp razor of some kind, or knife, and they cut and… started ripping it up. You know why? Because they’re sick people.”

    Trump then repeated his claim that there is visual evidence, in the form of photographs or video, of at least one vandal engaged in this attack on the polyurethane liner the president had installed, at a cost of over $14m – images, which, for some reason, no one else but him appears to have seen.

    “They have pictures”, the president insisted. “They took razor blades and they cut patches like that 350-ft long. A lot of them are like a foot, a foot, a foot. They cut the lining and there’s pictures of the guy bending over. I don’t know if anybody saw that, but there are pictures of the guy.” Despite repeated requests from journalists to see these supposed pictures the president continues to say exist, the White House, the parks department and the interior department have so far failed to produce even one such image.

    Trump, of course, has form for insisting that there is visual evidence to support his false claims that things that never happened did happen.

    As a candidate for the presidency in late 2015, Trump told his supporters that he had “watched” television images on September 11 2001 that showed “thousands and thousands” of Arabs in New Jersey “cheering” as “the World Trade Center came tumbling down.”

    In what was, briefly, a central concern of the Republican primary campaign, Trump refused to retract that false claim, continuing to insist that he had seen such scenes that day even after it became apparent that there was simply no footage, for the good reason that televised mass celebrations had not taken place.

    In an early example of his brazen disregard for the truth being impervious to fact-checking by journalists, Trump instead continued to insist the spectacle he fabricated “was well covered at the time”, and journalists, and his rivals for the Republican nomination simply moved on.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,992

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    theProle said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025

    Note that they are talking about episodes where the mean temperature hit… 22 and a bit degrees

    And they were noticing deaths in the statistics.

    The conclusion that care homes should have air-con is astonishingly obvious
    Everywhere should. The government should offer some kind of incentive for domestic houses to install solar panels + aircon as a package.
    solar panels + heat pumps please
    AC is an air-to-air heat pump.

    Previously they only promoted air-to-water heat pumps as an alternative to gas boilers but they're not always suitable for retrofitting as a like-for-like replacement which has damaged their image. The good thing about AC is that it complements whatever else you've got instead of attempting to replace it.
    A heat pump is just an AC unit with (a) a variable speed compressor, that can (b) run in reverse and therefore heat as well as cool.

    In our flat in London, we put in air conditioning about three years ago. In retrospect, we should have gone with a heat pump. But I guess we were probably about a year too early.
    I know I've said it before but our heat pump is keep the house really cool. It's currently 33.7 outside and 23.4 inside; it peaked at 35.7* outside and 24.2 inside.

    (*That's an absolute record high for us, not for June but for any month. We've been recording for 16 years.)
    They work for well insulated homes that have been designed for them.

    Stick them in an average British semi and they'd be shit. The output isn't good enough. They don't heat hot enough fast enough in Winter, and provide enough hot water when you need it, and take ages to cool a house down in the Summer.

    The rest is propaganda. They are expensive and a bit shit.

    This is why no-one buys one.
    That's not true at all. Just more deranged anti-wokism. I used to work in this area, designing heat pump systems for domestic homes. Any house built from 2010 onwards, which is a lot of houses, is suitable. Houses built earlier may be suitable, they may not be. It depends.
    At today's energy price cap prices:

    Gas 5.74p/kwh
    Electric 24.67p/kwh

    Gas combi boiler typically better than 92% efficiency.
    Thus 1kw of gas boiler output approx 5.74 / 0. 92 = 6.24p
    24.67 / 6.24 = 3.95 so for a Heat Pump to be cheaper than gas would require a system COP value greater than 3.95.

    Google suggests that's just about achievable with a good system, but a lot of installs won't be getting past 3.0 in typical usage.

    So the short answer is - most heat pumps are still more expensive to run than mains gas.

    There are a couple side notes to this.

    One is that lots of people install heat pumps and report substantial savings. Usually if you ask the pertinent questions, it becomes apparent that the heat pump install included a load of insulation - what is not realised is that the savings are usually all from the insulation.

    The other is that if you are willing to go on a time of day/price shifting electric tariff, it's possible for your electricity to cost vastly less than the cap. The snag is that it either means loads of extra cap-ex on a battery, or you get well and truly shafted on the "on peak" electricity price (even if your heat pump only runs on off peak electric, other appliances on your house may be less obliging).

    (in our climate, there is a strong anti-synergy with solar panels and heat pumps as solar output is usually dismal in the 3 months of the year you want the heating on) .
    Your gas price cap number is out of date: it's currently 7.3p.

    Plus, there are two provisos you need to add to this:

    (1) With the heat pump you also get cooling in summer!
    (2) If you have solar panels -and in time everyone will have solar panels- then your electricity price will be *much* closer to that gas per KWh number.
    My numbers are correct for today. Having looked a little further, you are however correct that the gas price cap goes up in July; although so does the electric price cap.

    Solar panels and a heat pump are virtually useless for heating the housing in the UK although they will work well to drive aircon.

    My inlaws have a fairly decent rooftop solar array, it generates about 3kw in full sun. Seasonal monthly production for 2024 (2025 is misleading as they had half the array down with a fault for 6 weeks).

    Jan 61kwh
    Feb 98kwh
    Mar 252kwh
    Apr 416kwh
    May 506kwh
    Jun 624kwh
    Jul 524kwh
    Aug 466kwh
    Sep 274kwh
    Oct 122kwh
    Nov 51kwh
    Dec 42kwh

    Their house uses about 270kwh/month with little seasonal variation (they have gas central heating), so October to Feb they are already importing electricity to make up the shortfall.

    Obviously they could fit more panels, but this is not free, they probably won't be able to export all the summer production (I'm not sure what DNO limit they have, probably 3.5kw), and at about double their present number of panels, they willl have used every inch of roof space, including some quite suboptimal bits.

    They'd have to completely cover the back garden in panels run a heatpump off solar in the winter, and would also need a substantial battery as the day to day variation is considerable (anything from 0.4kwh to 2.5kwh generated per day with their current system through January - by comparison it made 25kwh today).
    Actually, an air source heat pump is perfect for heating a house in the UK. It's all I've had for the last 8 years and no problems whatsoever.
    I think you've missed the point of my post.

    Air source heat pump, run off the mains- yes, it will work, although the savings may be quite marginal.

    Air source heat pump run from solar in winter - no chance unless you've a 30-60kw solar array to drive it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,465

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    carnforth said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The great thing about his policy is 1) it's an economically sensible idea that gets rid of the awful stamp duty that discourages labour mobility and older people downsizing, 2) it is a levelling up policy that favours the north and other regions which is favourable politically, and 3) it will apply downward pressure on house prices in the most expensive regions.

    A very good start if true. Balancing good politics with good economics.
    But if there's a £1200 cap where does the money come from? The deficit would be billions upon billions, surely? I'm in a Band A property with a 25% discount and I pay £1200 already. Something missing from this story...
    I think the £1,200 cap is that any INCREASE over what you currently pay is limited to £1,200. So if you pay £3,000 now you won't pay more than £4,200.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411

    carnforth said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The great thing about his policy is 1) it's an economically sensible idea that gets rid of the awful stamp duty that discourages labour mobility and older people downsizing, 2) it is a levelling up policy that favours the north and other regions which is favourable politically, and 3) it will apply downward pressure on house prices in the most expensive regions.

    A very good start if true. Balancing good politics with good economics.
    But if there's a £1200 cap where does the money come from? The deficit would be billions upon billions, surely? I'm in a Band A property with a 25% discount and I pay £1200 already. Something missing from this story...
    I think the £1,200 cap is that any INCREASE over what you currently pay is limited to £1,200. So if you pay £3,000 now you won't pay more than £4,200.
    Thanks
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,558
    dixiedean said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Why 0.48?
    Why not 0.5? It's so close as to make no difference and would be easier to work out.
    Hope it's going to go on empty properties held as investments too.
    “Less than half a percent” sounds a lot less tgan “half a percent”
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137
    Oooops - really is 2-0 now...
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    Such a bad time to concede. Can't afford any more
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    Goodnight Vienna.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,775
    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jun/24/mamdani-new-york-primaries-midterms-democrats-republicans-trump-250-anniversary-politics-latest-updates#top-of-blog

    Donald Trump once again devoted a large portion of an Oval Office event to insisting, without evidence, that his troubled renovation of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, plagued by algae blooms and a peeling polyurethane liner, was actually caused by vandals.

    Asked by a reporter if the repairs to the pool would be completed by the Fourth of July, Trump said, “It’s in great shape” before launching into a 1300-word monologue on how the project was done perfectly, but then sabotaged by “thugs” who “went down with probably a box cutter, or a very sharp razor of some kind, or knife, and they cut and… started ripping it up. You know why? Because they’re sick people.”

    Trump then repeated his claim that there is visual evidence, in the form of photographs or video, of at least one vandal engaged in this attack on the polyurethane liner the president had installed, at a cost of over $14m – images, which, for some reason, no one else but him appears to have seen.

    “They have pictures”, the president insisted. “They took razor blades and they cut patches like that 350-ft long. A lot of them are like a foot, a foot, a foot. They cut the lining and there’s pictures of the guy bending over. I don’t know if anybody saw that, but there are pictures of the guy.” Despite repeated requests from journalists to see these supposed pictures the president continues to say exist, the White House, the parks department and the interior department have so far failed to produce even one such image.

    Trump, of course, has form for insisting that there is visual evidence to support his false claims that things that never happened did happen.

    As a candidate for the presidency in late 2015, Trump told his supporters that he had “watched” television images on September 11 2001 that showed “thousands and thousands” of Arabs in New Jersey “cheering” as “the World Trade Center came tumbling down.”

    In what was, briefly, a central concern of the Republican primary campaign, Trump refused to retract that false claim, continuing to insist that he had seen such scenes that day even after it became apparent that there was simply no footage, for the good reason that televised mass celebrations had not taken place.

    In an early example of his brazen disregard for the truth being impervious to fact-checking by journalists, Trump instead continued to insist the spectacle he fabricated “was well covered at the time”, and journalists, and his rivals for the Republican nomination simply moved on.

    He only has two more years now and every month the power will ebb and drain further as the clock ticks.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,056
    Some of you may recall Andre Dutra, an American YouTuber who speaks about people in the US political sphere. He has a very pleasant voice. His latest is on the surprisingly similarities between Barack Obama and JD Vance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rPnsxcEn_s
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    Why circumspect when his last PMQs is next month?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,050

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    They're going home
    They're going home
    They're going
    Scotland's going home....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,760
    Michael Gove is my all-time favourite politician after he dismissed the Oxford PPE degree as three A-levels taken in your 20s.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dELEAp1b3xo&t=1795s
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,465

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    I am not wrong

    You are upset that she did her job, and you better get used to it as I expect she will continue to take the fight to Burnham
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411
    Fun read on the politics of aircon in France:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gyqldl3p5o
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,941
    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    Why circumspect when his last PMQs is next month?
    She's perfectly entitled to do what she did. For any of us who are not Kemi fans, it was the wrong message at the wrong moment. If you liked watching her putting the boot in to the man on the ground that is fair enough. I don't believe she did herself any favours whatever you may think.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,124

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    The thing about Council Tax is that it was always pretty low-gradient; understandable given its origins as the Community Charge with the roughest edges sanded off.

    The Council Tax bill in band H is only three times higher than in band A, even though a bottom band H house was valued at 8 times more than a top band A. And expensive houses go a long way beyond the bottom of band H.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    edited June 24

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    I am not wrong

    You are upset that she did her job, and you better get used to it as I expect she will continue to take the fight to Burnham
    Are you her dad? If you are, it would explain your rose tinted spectacles.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 810

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    To be honest, they pretty much had the first half off and are still 2-0 up.

    Third World cup in a row for Scotland playing Brazil in the group stages, never seen a defensive collapse as poor as this (not counting 1982)
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,941
    DoctorG said:

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    To be honest, they pretty much had the first half off and are still 2-0 up.

    Third World cup in a row for Scotland playing Brazil in the group stages, never seen a defensive collapse as poor as this (not counting 1982)
    I feel bad for Haiti, without the daft head-to-head tie-break they'd actually be knocking on the door of being in the next round themselves.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 226
    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The great thing about his policy is 1) it's an economically sensible idea that gets rid of the awful stamp duty that discourages labour mobility and older people downsizing, 2) it is a levelling up policy that favours the north and other regions which is favourable politically, and 3) it will apply downward pressure on house prices in the most expensive regions.

    A very good start if true. Balancing good politics with good economics.
    Given house price growth over the last twenty or so years the idea that stamp duty stops people downsizing doesn’t really stand up.

    Since 2006 it has gone up from £180k to £300k so £5k stamp duty only works out at less than 2% of the total and 4% of the £120k capital gains.

    I doubt that it hurts Labour mobility much compared to all the other factors like the price of housing.

    Peter.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,124

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    Why circumspect when his last PMQs is next month?
    She's perfectly entitled to do what she did. For any of us who are not Kemi fans, it was the wrong message at the wrong moment. If you liked watching her putting the boot in to the man on the ground that is fair enough. I don't believe she did herself any favours whatever you may think.
    Two other observations.

    First- there's a massive gap between the schmaltzy final show thing and kicking a man while he's down. She could have asked some technical but important questions about matters of state, for example.

    Second- a lot of people shaking their heads sadly here are people on the wet boundary of the Conservative party- either just inside or just outside the tent. Kemi's feisty approach is a turnoff, as is her disdain for people who care about church roofs and her careless bandying about of Gestapo abuse. No doubt it's a failure of loyalty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,992
    edited June 24

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    Haiti's second goal was a worldy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    edited June 24
    theProle said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
    It will kill the housing market until the change comes in - nobody will voluntarily pay £x k stamp duty if it it is ending in a few months.

    Almost have to bring the change in overnight.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411
    edited June 24
    Northern Ireland still has rates. Here are the, er, rates:

    https://www.finance-ni.gov.uk/articles/rate-poundages

    Their most recent revaluation was 2005. Average bill 2025 £1239.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,208

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Does anyone remember what the Tories did at Blair's last PMQs? I think Badenoch was absolutely spot on to put the boot in.

    It's on YouTube. Night and day between Badenoch and Cameron, who was actually quite classy. The other thing, PMQs actually consisted of questions and answers on specific topics back in the day.
    Maybe then Kemi should be compared on her performance and generosity on Starmer's final PMQs which is on the 15th July
    Being minimally behaved isn't just for a final PMQs. Badenoch gratuitously insulted several other people than Starmer today. I don't like personalising but you don't come across as someone boorish at all, yet Badenoch's behaviour is perfectly OK?
    Kemi is feisty but watching it today it she took advantage of Labour's troubles that any politician would

    I would have joined the criticism if this had been Starmer's final pmqs
    Totally stupid thing to do. Politicians have few enough opportunities to show their nice side and she blew it. A more graceless performance would be difficult to imagine. That's the difference between classy politician like -dare I say it -Blair Cameron and Thatcher-- and second raters.
    You have, like others, misunderstood this was not Starmer last PMQs where tributes are traditional given across the house

    Come back on the 15th July after Starmer's last PMQs
    You are defending performative nastiness. I doubt someone like Cleverly or Hunt would have been so brutal. Yes there would have been reciprocal banter, with Starmer the brunt of good matured humour, but also an almost end of term bon homie.

    I have no time for Starmer after he squandered his first two years as PM, but Badenoch looked petty and awful.
    Rubbish

    We are 3 weeks away from the final PMQs and you expect Kemi to give Labour an easy ride

    She looked petty and awful to those who have called tories scum and worst

    To others she did her job and showed up Labour's woes

    You are wrong. She demonstrated she was devoid of humanity. Like I say, better Conservative politicians and better human beings would have been more circumspect.

    I hope when her time comes, Burnham is more empathetic.
    Why circumspect when his last PMQs is next month?
    She's perfectly entitled to do what she did. For any of us who are not Kemi fans, it was the wrong message at the wrong moment. If you liked watching her putting the boot in to the man on the ground that is fair enough. I don't believe she did herself any favours whatever you may think.
    Two other observations.

    First- there's a massive gap between the schmaltzy final show thing and kicking a man while he's down. She could have asked some technical but important questions about matters of state, for example.

    Second- a lot of people shaking their heads sadly here are people on the wet boundary of the Conservative party- either just inside or just outside the tent. Kemi's feisty approach is a turnoff, as is her disdain for people who care about church roofs and her careless bandying about of Gestapo abuse. No doubt it's a failure of loyalty.
    A thoughtful post. I don't think either of us will change any minds.

    I just didn't see the point in the personal abuse of Starmer. He's as good as gone. He's dust.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    Good effort, good leather from McTominey.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,768

    A full revaluation of every property for this purpose would take at least 5 years??

    Heard of Zoopla?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,208
    dixiedean said:

    A full revaluation of every property for this purpose would take at least 5 years??

    Heard of Zoopla?
    +1 the point of using property prices rather than land values is that the data is to hand and anything wrong can be dealt with after initial implementation. April 2027 isn’t a realistic option for other reasons but April 28 would be easy and before the election
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,768
    From what I hear the cap of £1200 will be a cap of an increase of £1200 phased in.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    I've seen softer penalties given than that one that wasn't.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    eek said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
    Your final point is why people hate Labour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    There's your answer
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137
    THREE - game over, man! Game over!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,034
    Going home, they're going home...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,941

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    There's your answer
    If we walk off the pitch now and the match is abandoned, it'd be a 3-0 to Brazil, right?
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 810
    edited June 24

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    There's your answer
    If we walk off the pitch now and the match is abandoned, it'd be a 3-0 to Brazil, right?
    Just get 5 players sent off for putting their hands over their mouths, match abandoned, 3-0 Brazil
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,034

    If we ask Brazil nicely to take the second half off and just leave it as it is?

    There's your answer
    If we walk off the pitch now and the match is abandoned, it'd be a 3-0 to Brazil, right?
    Knowing how it goes for Scotland, there will be some complicated scenario where they could still qualify but a goal in the 94th minute in the last group game will sink it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    Scotland need to be channelling Archie Gemmill through the end of this game.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,263
    eek said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
    Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding?
    Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values...
    That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?

    Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.

    Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,661
    dixiedean said:

    From what I hear the cap of £1200 will be a cap of an increase of £1200 phased in.

    That makes more sense.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,768
    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
    Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding?
    Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values...
    That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?

    Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.

    Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
    It's a cap of an increase of 1200.
    There'll be many more winners than losers. Most of them in the North.
    Levelling up in practice.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,263

    dixiedean said:

    From what I hear the cap of £1200 will be a cap of an increase of £1200 phased in.

    That makes more sense.
    Only if he wants to beat Liz Truss....
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,992

    theProle said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
    It will kill the housing market until the change comes in - nobody will voluntarily pay £x k stamp duty if it it is ending in a few months.

    Almost have to bring the change in overnight.
    Or just offer a full. refund of it once the detail is implemented.

    It's worth noting that the current speculation will already be slowing the housing market down, so they need to either kill the story or announce it pretty quickly.

    This sort of thing is one of the reasons why the pretty self-indulgent timetable for putting Burnham in is a stupid idea. Once SKS had announced he was going, they should have had nominations closing on Tuesday, potentially Burnham in post today if unopposed.

    You'd have thought they'd realise weeks or months of speculation about what he might do when he finally gets the keys to No10 was a bad idea after the debacle of Reeves's first budget, where they trailed every conceivable form of tax rise known to man, and then wondered why business promptly battened down the hatches and stopped investing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,768
    edited June 24
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
    It will kill the housing market until the change comes in - nobody will voluntarily pay £x k stamp duty if it it is ending in a few months.

    Almost have to bring the change in overnight.
    Or just offer a full. refund of it once the detail is implemented.

    It's worth noting that the current speculation will already be slowing the housing market down, so they need to either kill the story or announce it pretty quickly.

    This sort of thing is one of the reasons why the pretty self-indulgent timetable for putting Burnham in is a stupid idea. Once SKS had announced he was going, they should have had nominations closing on Tuesday, potentially Burnham in post today if unopposed.

    You'd have thought they'd realise weeks or months of speculation about what he might do when he finally gets the keys to No10 was a bad idea after the debacle of Reeves's first budget, where they trailed every conceivable form of tax rise known to man, and then wondered why business promptly battened down the hatches and stopped investing.
    Well yes.
    Nominations for Labour for the vacant GM Mayor closed on Sunday.
    They don't open for PM for two weeks...
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 226

    THREE - game over, man! Game over!

    They mostly come out at Night…mostly!

    Peter.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,263
    dixiedean said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
    Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding?
    Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values...
    That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?

    Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.

    Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
    It's a cap of an increase of 1200.
    There'll be many more winners than losers. Most of them in the North.
    Levelling up in practice.
    After housing costs there's a large proportion of people in the South with quite low disposable income comparatively... probably in the main Labour voters
    Is this being paid by the property owner or the resident?

    I have very low expectations, though I vote for him over Corbyn, but it's all pointing to him being a massive fuckup.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 226
    theProle said:

    theProle said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
    It will kill the housing market until the change comes in - nobody will voluntarily pay £x k stamp duty if it it is ending in a few months.

    Almost have to bring the change in overnight.
    Or just offer a full. refund of it once the detail is implemented.

    It's worth noting that the current speculation will already be slowing the housing market down, so they need to either kill the story or announce it pretty quickly.

    This sort of thing is one of the reasons why the pretty self-indulgent timetable for putting Burnham in is a stupid idea. Once SKS had announced he was going, they should have had nominations closing on Tuesday, potentially Burnham in post today if unopposed.

    You'd have thought they'd realise weeks or months of speculation about what he might do when he finally gets the keys to No10 was a bad idea after the debacle of Reeves's first budget, where they trailed every conceivable form of tax rise known to man, and then wondered why business promptly battened down the hatches and stopped investing.
    You trail it now move it towards the end of the Parliament to be implemented in the next. That’s what the &1,200 cap is for… “Initially” gets you re-elected, then you push it up after that!

    It’s a sugared pill!

    Peter.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,411
    What's the longest grass? Kicked into the pampas? Kicked into the giant bamboo?

    We'll be on 1991 valuations when I'm dead & buried.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,992

    For me, the two great political mysteries of our time are the hatred of Starmer and the beatification of Badenoch.

    Starmer hatred is pretty easy to understand.

    The man is an odious buffoon, a whining hypocrite, and he's so entitled to freebies another bloke buy's his mrs her panties. He's not got a principled bone in his body, he needed the Supreme Court to tell him if a woman might have a penis, and he's let a parliamentary party with a mantra of "Who can we tax in order to pay benefits" walk all over him.

    The beatification of Badenoch is a bit odder, but I think she's got quite a lot of credit for smacking the hated Starmer about at PMQs fairly regularly. Her problem is that no matter how much voters like her, her party simply can't be trusted to keep it's promises, but that doesn't really effect her personal ratings.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,257
    edited June 24
    theProle said:

    For me, the two great political mysteries of our time are the hatred of Starmer and the beatification of Badenoch.

    Starmer hatred is pretty easy to understand.

    The man is an odious buffoon, a whining hypocrite, and he's so entitled to freebies another bloke buy's his mrs her panties. He's not got a principled bone in his body, he needed the Supreme Court to tell him if a woman might have a penis, and he's let a parliamentary party with a mantra of "Who can we tax in order to pay benefits" walk all over him.

    The beatification of Badenoch is a bit odder, but I think she's got quite a lot of credit for smacking the hated Starmer about at PMQs fairly regularly. Her problem is that no matter how much voters like her, her party simply can't be trusted to keep it's promises, but that doesn't really effect her personal ratings.
    Starmer has been desperately ineffective and disappointing. He was also bang out of order when he sacked Robbins, but all this corruption malarkey is an absolute crock promoted by the right wing media. Was it a good idea to take gifts from Ali? No, probably not. But is it in the same league as Farage's 5 million or even Johnson's friends and family PPE fast lanes grift? Yet, according to commentators like you the corruption is far worse.

    And your analysis of Badenoch is equally shallow.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,137
    The GLOWER of Scotland :(
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    A battling performance by Scotland. Unfortunately probably one goal conceded too many.

    GN all
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,941
    Well, we could and should have lost that game by a lot more than just 3, so, that's...positive?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,776
    Absolutely gutted for the Scotland team and the fans tonight, I would have loved to see Scotland progress through to play even one more game after waiting so long to play in another World Cup, but it was not to be. Having said that, I definitely think that the Tartan Army might still be crowned the best fans in this tournament even though they face tough opposition from the Norwegians. Its the hope that gets you everytime...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,361

    Well, we could and should have lost that game by a lot more than just 3, so, that's...positive?

    Scots to qualify, just, ahead of the Czechs, Ecuadorians, Uruguayans and Algerians, with Iranians and Paraguayans in reserve.

    Chart on TV showing their chances at 49.2%.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,613

    A full revaluation of every property for this purpose would take at least 5 years??

    Land value makes more sense: it means that you aren't penalized for work you do on your home. (And encourages the efficient allocation of land resource.)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,910
    fitalass said:

    Absolutely gutted for the Scotland team and the fans tonight, I would have loved to see Scotland progress through to play even one more game after waiting so long to play in another World Cup, but it was not to be. Having said that, I definitely think that the Tartan Army might still be crowned the best fans in this tournament even though they face tough opposition from the Norwegians. Its the hope that gets you everytime...

    I wouldn't rule Scotland out yet but yes it's difficult now. Let's see!
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,263
    Dopermean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Dopermean said:

    eek said:

    Ratters said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.

    Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?

    Peter.
    My thought exactly.

    Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
    Lot of people paying more in London!
    King of the North
    Slayer of the South....

    One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.


    You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.

    I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.

    Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
    "always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....

    It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
    Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.

    Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
    Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding?
    Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values...
    That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?

    Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.

    Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
    It's a cap of an increase of 1200.
    There'll be many more winners than losers. Most of them in the North.
    Levelling up in practice.
    After housing costs there's a large proportion of people in the South with quite low disposable income comparatively... probably in the main Labour voters
    Is this being paid by the property owner or the resident?

    I have very low expectations, though I vote for him over Corbyn, but it's all pointing to him being a massive fuckup.
    So having found the Fairer share website, I understand that this is to be paid by the resident not the property owner.
    So renters in areas with high property values paying more tax on top of their high rents.

    With a cap of £1200 increase, so making it highly regressive, the effect will be a tax cut for comfortably off homeowners at the expense of struggling renters.

    If it's going to be changed to make it a property value tax (which I'd support) then it should be levelled on the property owners.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,361
    7.5 earthquake centred west of Caracas.

    USGS assessing fatalty probabilities - 44% > 10k, 30% > 100k.

    Will US government lift a finger?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,613
    theProle said:

    https://x.com/mbdaytrading/status/2069698353307296240

    Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).

    📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value
    📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially
    📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually

    A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.

    The idea is good, but some serious thought is needed about how to avoid shafting people who have recently paid a small fortune in stamp duty, and are then going to be effectively hit for higher council tax as well. Maybe a refund of stamp duty paid on a current main residence within the last 10 years, on a sliding scale basis (ie. you get 100% refund if it was paid within 1 year, 10% refund if it was 10 years ago)?

    £1200 cap has to be wrong, I'm paying about £1500 on a Derbyshire band B now, and I'm moving to a band D that's about £2.3k (house is £475k so it's bill would be virtually unchanged on a 0.48% tax).

    Is it a cap of a maximum annual increase of £1200 (although that sounds a bit high?). Business rates work like this, you get transitional relief, IIRC, the increase from year to year is capped as 10% or £800, whichever is the higher. That might reduce the backlash from people in the SE who are otherwise shifted from ~£2k pa to ~£5k pa overnight.

    The really big challenge is sorting out the valuations in the first place (fairly easy to adjust them via inflation afterwards). Not too bad for houses with a recent sale recorded at the land registry, but difficult otherwise. Maybe one option is to introduce it piecemeal - so you can opt to stay on Council Tax for x years or until the property is next sold, or you can get the house valued if you want to transition sooner.
    Someone's always going to get hurt.

    Simplify and don't worry about stamp duty.
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