Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).
📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value 📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially 📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually
A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.
Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.
Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?
Peter.
My thought exactly.
Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
Lot of people paying more in London!
King of the North Slayer of the South....
One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.
You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.
I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.
Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
"always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....
It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.
Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding? Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values... That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?
Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.
Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
It's a cap of an increase of 1200. There'll be many more winners than losers. Most of them in the North. Levelling up in practice.
After housing costs there's a large proportion of people in the South with quite low disposable income comparatively... probably in the main Labour voters Is this being paid by the property owner or the resident?
I have very low expectations, though I vote for him over Corbyn, but it's all pointing to him being a massive fuckup.
So having found the Fairer share website, I understand that this is to be paid by the resident not the property owner. So renters in areas with high property values paying more tax on top of their high rents.
With a cap of £1200 increase, so making it highly regressive, the effect will be a tax cut for comfortably off homeowners at the expense of struggling renters.
If it's going to be changed to make it a property value tax (which I'd support) then it should be levelled on the property owners.
But that would simply be passed on to the tenants via higher rents.
I guess the devil here is in the details and there is going to be a lot of details - 1 of which is that income tax seems to be what councils will be getting a share of with this property tax going to central Government.
Andy Burnham is backing a proposal to scrap Council Tax and Stamp Duty, replacing them with a Proportional Property Tax (PPT).
📌 Rate: 0.48% of current property value 📌 Cap: £1,200 per year initially 📌 Supporters claim 77% of households would save an average £556 annually
A major reform if it ever gains traction. Winners and losers would depend heavily on property values and location.
Average Band D in England is just over £2k so capping it at £1,200 and 77% paying less suggests in terms of properties mid Band D.
Liverpools band A is around £1,600 so unless people in London are going to get hammered I can’t see how they can hold it at £1,200?
Peter.
My thought exactly.
Can't be much lower sum than people are currently paying is my guess.
Lot of people paying more in London!
King of the North Slayer of the South....
One of the problems of selling this as a policy is that if I have no intention of selling my home, there is no saving in Stamp Duty by its abolition for me. So it has to stack up against current Council Tax for mot.
You always have the option of downsizing and reducing your costs. The costs of moving will be much lower without stamp duty.
I mean 'you' as in people in a similar position often end up with family homes bigger than they need. Which is fine. But it's also fair you pay your fair share as much as someone who moves homes more often for their career or to climb the properly ladder or to downside.
Stamp duty is just a really, really terrible tax.
"always have the option to sell" --> Granny forced to sell by Burnham's hated new tax....
It has the potential to be Burnham's WFA squared....
Not if you allow the people impacted to put the unpaid amount as a charge against the property.
Equally if you are that house rich and cash poor it’s probably time to move
Does this mean complete central government control of local government funding? Can't see that being democratic or why places with higher property values should be subsidizing refuse collection in places with lower values... That's before the economic illiteracy of collecting less than currently, what makes up the shortfall?
Politically and economically you need to be very careful f'ing with taxes that could have large (obvious but stupidly ignored) consequences.
Barring the councils for which the system was originally fixed (Westminster, Wandsworth and City of London), there are no London Band As that aren't comfortably over £1200, I expect that's true for England and Wales.
It's a cap of an increase of 1200. There'll be many more winners than losers. Most of them in the North. Levelling up in practice.
After housing costs there's a large proportion of people in the South with quite low disposable income comparatively... probably in the main Labour voters Is this being paid by the property owner or the resident?
I have very low expectations, though I vote for him over Corbyn, but it's all pointing to him being a massive fuckup.
So having found the Fairer share website, I understand that this is to be paid by the resident not the property owner. So renters in areas with high property values paying more tax on top of their high rents.
With a cap of £1200 increase, so making it highly regressive, the effect will be a tax cut for comfortably off homeowners at the expense of struggling renters.
If it's going to be changed to make it a property value tax (which I'd support) then it should be levelled on the property owners.
But that would simply be passed on to the tenants via higher rents.
I guess the devil here is in the details and there is going to be a lot of details - 1 of which is that income tax seems to be what councils will be getting a share of with this property tax going to central Government.
Even if landlords try to pass it on via higher rents, I expect that would be a better result for renters than paying a % of the value of a property you don't own.
How are you selling this to someone in their 20s paying 40-50% of their disposable income to rent a 1 bed flat? They'll now have to pay another £100 per month because the huge rent they struggle to pay for the flat they don't own means it's worth £x00K?
My memory of that stage of life is my colleagues up north who'd bought themselves a flat or house and a car moaning about London weighting, while myself and my colleagues in London were renting rooms in a houseshare or maybe stretching to renting a 1 bed with a partner.
Comments
I guess the devil here is in the details and there is going to be a lot of details - 1 of which is that income tax seems to be what councils will be getting a share of with this property tax going to central Government.
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices.html
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/press-centre/house-price-index/
https://www.halifax.co.uk/media-centre/house-price-index.html
https://advantage.zpg.co.uk/house-price-index-report?member=true
https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi
https://www.nationwidemediacentre.co.uk/
How are you selling this to someone in their 20s paying 40-50% of their disposable income to rent a 1 bed flat? They'll now have to pay another £100 per month because the huge rent they struggle to pay for the flat they don't own means it's worth £x00K?
My memory of that stage of life is my colleagues up north who'd bought themselves a flat or house and a car moaning about London weighting, while myself and my colleagues in London were renting rooms in a houseshare or maybe stretching to renting a 1 bed with a partner.