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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,523
    Can someone tell England that it’s only 20 deg not 35? So sluggish tonight.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,063
    We need to swap Gordon for Rashford. Gordon would get blown over in a light wind and at least Rashford will match the defender for size.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,207
    Andy_JS said:

    The far-right could win the next French presidential election. Do we really want to rejoin the EU if that happens?

    Bardella will probably be about as far-right as David Cameron.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,653
    The island bracing itself for its hottest ever day since records began, forecast for tomorrow
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,063
    IanB2 said:

    The island bracing itself for its hottest ever day since records began, forecast for tomorrow

    We missed hottest day ever today by 0.3 degrees so god knows what is in the pipeline for tomorrow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,201
    edited 9:17PM

    Can someone tell England that it’s only 20 deg not 35? So sluggish tonight.

    Very poor performance. Need Saka and Rashford on to give some width and pace. Not sure he should wait much longer.

  • 5-0 prediction lol
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,520
    I wish they wouldn't show bleedin' replays when it's obvious play is about to start again.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,615
    DavidL said:

    England the same as Arsenal. Not half the team without Saka.

    A Sakless performance so far.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    Twice Bellingham makes face saving tackles in defence, lays it off sprints 80 yards in to space and Rice and Gordon plsying tippy tappy side to side..
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    Twice Bellingham makes face saving tackles in defence, lays it off sprints 80 yards in to space and Rice and Gordon plsying tippy tappy side to side..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187
    Fatawu on 🦊
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,201

    DavidL said:

    England the same as Arsenal. Not half the team without Saka.

    A Sakless performance so far.
    No longer. Thank goodness.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,520

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Battlebus said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.

    Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.

    I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
    It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
    I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.

    1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.

    2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
    3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
    To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
    They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
    Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.

    Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
    If I were advising Reform I'd tell them to let Sarah Pochin take over as leader for a year or two, with Farage as party chairman or something similar.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,653
    edited 9:30PM
    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,063
    Donald Trump reportedly told Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, that “all the Jews are sick of you”.

    The US president’s outburst occurred during a call with Jared Kushner, his son-in-law and the US peace envoy, Steve Witkoff, his Middle East envoy, and Mr Netanyahu, according to a new book by two journalists from The New York Times.

    The group was reportedly discussing the 20-point Gaza peace plan, announced by Mr Trump in September 2025 after nearly two years of intense fighting between Israel and Hamas.

    The fiery exchange is detailed in the new book Regime Change, which was released on Tuesday.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2026/06/23/trump-netanyahu-regime-change-jews/?WT.mc_id=tmgoff_tw_post
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.

    If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.

    ...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
    If you think grandchildren 'hate' their grandparents because of Brexit then you do not know grandchildren at all
    It's figurative. All those wasted opportunities.

    Still without Brexit we wouldn't have had Prime Minister Johnson, so it had its positives.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,653
    Seaman had bigger hands
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221
    Andy_JS said:

    The far-right could win the next French presidential election. Do we really want to rejoin the EU if that happens?

    Even the far right in France have seen the folly of Brexit.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,898
    Maybe it's good to get our bad game out of the way early in the tournament 👍
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,653
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Battlebus said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.

    Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.

    I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
    It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
    I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.

    1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.

    2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
    3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
    To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
    They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
    Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.

    Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
    If I were advising Reform I'd tell them to let Sarah Pochin take over as leader for a year or two, with Farage as party chairman or something similar.
    You think Reform currently are light on crazy??
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,201
    IanB2 said:

    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?

    Kane had a shot on target but it was an easy save.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,113
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Battlebus said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.

    Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.

    I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
    It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
    I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.

    1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.

    2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
    3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
    To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
    They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
    Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.

    Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
    If I were advising Reform I'd tell them to let Sarah Pochin take over as leader for a year or two, with Farage as party chairman or something similar.
    Intrigued.

    Why not-Farage, and why Pochin in particular?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Battlebus said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage is going to lose the "normal guy" and charisma/charm battle with Andy Burnham. Not sure what he can do about it. Serious situation for Reform imo.

    Agree. for practical purposes write off any chance of a Reform government in 2028/9. The balloon has burst, scattering five million used pound notes and great thoughts about celebrity bottoms into the air.

    I hope the Tories will have Danny Kruger back in due course. But not the others.
    It's noticeable that someone like Kruger has made no impact in Reform such is the control of Farage. A waste to both Reform and to himself. However if he stays any longer, then questions will be asked about his judgment.
    I can conceive of only 2 reasons why a Tory politician would switch to Reform and neither are savoury.

    1. Pure careerism. They've looked at the polls and calculate better personal prospects.

    2. Nativist ideology. They believe in closed borders and mass deportations of 'not proper' Brits.
    3. They believe they can change Reform from the inside?
    To what though. If they manage to professionalise Reform and marginalise the racism, whilst keeping it firmly right wing on economics, you get something quite close to where they've fled from - a Kemi Badenoch led Tory Party.
    They believe that the Tories won’t engage in radical reform of the economy
    Reform have no ideas for radical reform of the economy, other than wishful thinking and populism.

    Fuck Reform. They will take us nowhere.
    If I were advising Reform I'd tell them to let Sarah Pochin take over as leader for a year or two, with Farage as party chairman or something similar.
    Intrigued.

    Why not-Farage, and why Pochin in particular?
    She is pretty awful, but she is the only Reform MP to be elected since the GE.

    It is more than any of their other candidates have managed.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,395
    edited 9:56PM
    All fridges and freezers down in big Tesco and small Tesco. Do they use different freezers in hot countries or something?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,395
    Roger said:
    Imprisoning people who shoot police officers? Oh no!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,395
    Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

    "The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

    Russia?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,523
    Well that was shite. Harry Kane open goal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,201
    All that "patience" crap. England wasted about 80 minutes of that match achieving nothing with players on the pitch who seemed clueless. To be honest I was bewildered that Madueke was in the squad, let alone the team. He was pathetic. Took far, far too long to get him off.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187
    Masterclass by Ghana in defending.

    Both England and Ghana pretty certain to progress now.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,520
    Ghana played a hell of a lot better than number 64 in the world rankings.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,122
    DavidL said:

    All that "patience" crap. England wasted about 80 minutes of that match achieving nothing with players on the pitch who seemed clueless. To be honest I was bewildered that Madueke was in the squad, let alone the team. He was pathetic. Took far, far too long to get him off.

    No returns on AG10 to Barcelona
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,606
    Andy_JS said:

    Any predictions for the score? I'm going for 6-0 England.

    :D:D:D , close but no cigar Andy
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,520
    edited 10:04PM
    carnforth said:

    Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

    "The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

    Russia?

    This wouldn't have happened under the rule of pen and paper. (Perhaps).
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,543
    carnforth said:

    Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

    "The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

    Russia?

    Heat?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,810

    England shite. Never would have happened under SKS.

    We'll soon be saying about Sir Keir as we're saying about Gareth Southgate: how much better things were under those boring men of wokeness who took the knee.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,005
    kle4 said:

    Ghana denied a stonewall penalty, crazy - lunged in, didn't get the ball.

    And they didn't even appeal. Odd.

    Anyway, happy with that. Top of the group. Clean sheet.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,177
    AnneJGP said:

    carnforth said:

    Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

    "The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

    Russia?

    Heat?
    Not if the Radio system is down - that's something else.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,606

    malcolmg said:

    Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.

    Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.

    He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
    I suspect you will be disappointed…
    Don't I know it , I prophesise that he will be a DUD, usual thick socialist policies , doling out cash to spongers and losers and wrecking the economy. It will be a short honeymoon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,182

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.

    If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.

    ...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
    If you think grandchildren 'hate' their grandparents because of Brexit then you do not know grandchildren at all
    I am pretty sure a lot of them hated the way their grandparents voted, though.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,017
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221
    edited 10:11PM
    It turns out that the disastrous Reflecting Pool refurbishment is the fault, according to Trump, of "Barrack Hussein Obama".

    Five Americans have been arrested for putting/ growing algae in the pool.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Ghana denied a stonewall penalty, crazy - lunged in, didn't get the ball.

    And they didn't even appeal. Odd.

    Anyway, happy with that. Top of the group. Clean sheet.
    Apparently an offside before, but if so why didn't the ref give the freekick up there rather than in the box.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.

    Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.

    He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
    I suspect you will be disappointed…
    Don't I know it , I prophesise that he will be a DUD, usual thick socialist policies , doling out cash to spongers and losers and wrecking the economy. It will be a short honeymoon.
    Boris folded cash to dpongrrd, Truss trashed the economy

    Not a socialist on sight
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,753
    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any predictions for the score? I'm going for 6-0 England.

    :D:D:D , close but no cigar Andy
    In fairness he was half right.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,753

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,347
    eek said:

    AnneJGP said:

    carnforth said:

    Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

    "The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

    Russia?

    Heat?
    Not if the Radio system is down - that's something else.
    Die Zeit had one train reporting that the tower network is down, but that is very unconfirmed amongst a lot of don't knows and could just be loose language (although I suspect that is trickier to achieve in German!).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    Bullshit! Apart from a few on here I've hardly met anyone in the last ten years who didn't think it a disaster. I got so pissed off listening to the various programmes on it that I took myself off to France.

    If anyone has any doubt just go and wonder why all the young bar staff are having such a great time and learning languages and wonder why there are no young English boys and girls.

    ...........and how they must hate all their old fogie grandparents who denied all this to them
    If you think grandchildren 'hate' their grandparents because of Brexit then you do not know grandchildren at all
    I am pretty sure a lot of them hated the way their grandparents voted, though.
    We have banned talking politics with the grandparents as a result, not just the ones with German passports.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,753
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Ghana denied a stonewall penalty, crazy - lunged in, didn't get the ball.

    And they didn't even appeal. Odd.

    Anyway, happy with that. Top of the group. Clean sheet.
    Apparently an offside before, but if so why didn't the ref give the freekick up there rather than in the box.
    Wasn't the offside when the player on the ground shot against his own player?
    I thought it was a penalty too.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,017
    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
    We've grown faster than Germany.

    So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,037
    https://x.com/neilmhta/status/2068507004222464327#m
    NEW investigation for Wall Street Journal

    - Polymarket is paying scores of offshore clippers to quietly promote its international exchange in the U.S. (though it’s banned from letting Americans trade on the platform)
    - Polymarket made dummy websites mirroring its real site, then paid creators to use the fake site and pretend to win thousands.
    - Creators altered headlines and used outdated footage to imply they won bets—even when they often lost
    - Polymarket paid Adin Ross multiple millions to promote the site

    All that and more in https://www.wsj.com/business/media/polymarket-social-media-bets-prediction-market-441cdeb5?st=57dR12&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    Saka and Rashford have to start

    Gordon and Spence poor

    Rice looks laboured and limited confronted by low press.

    Play Rogers and Bellingham, Bellingham in deeper role, Rogers front of the diamond.

    Bellingham made two great 60 yard runs back clean tackles then furthest man forwards. Him and Rogers could be outstanding together far more drive and pace than Rice.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,753

    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
    We've grown faster than Germany.

    So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?
    And a shed load slower than Poland.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,037
    Andy_JS said:

    The far-right could win the next French presidential election. Do we really want to rejoin the EU if that happens?

    • Bad news. War with France
    • Good news: War with France!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,187
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Ghana denied a stonewall penalty, crazy - lunged in, didn't get the ball.

    And they didn't even appeal. Odd.

    Anyway, happy with that. Top of the group. Clean sheet.
    Apparently an offside before, but if so why didn't the ref give the freekick up there rather than in the box.
    Wasn't the offside when the player on the ground shot against his own player?
    I thought it was a penalty too.
    Why it didn't go to VAR is the mystery.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,017
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
    We've grown faster than Germany.

    So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?
    And a shed load slower than Poland.
    Poland being an Eastern European ex-USSR nation that is catching up to western standards.

    They are not our peer. Germany are.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,523
    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any predictions for the score? I'm going for 6-0 England.

    :D:D:D , close but no cigar Andy
    It was half right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,182
    carnforth said:

    Roger said:
    Imprisoning people who shoot police officers? Oh no!
    Fifty year sentences for people who did not shoot anyone.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,753
    Credit to Ghana, mind.
    They defended really well, their game plan worked, and they are into the knockout. It's easier to play against a team that comes at you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,182
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?

    Kane had a shot on target but it was an easy save.
    And another he put over the bar.
    Not his best night.

    I thought after the first game that Tuchel finally had England playing without fear. What happened ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Burnham won't have Starmer's utter tin-ear for politics, so an improvement on that front, but that will only carry him for so long.

    Ultimately, as @Cyclefree said, the problem is Labour's policies.

    He must clean out the stables, get shot of most of the mediocre cabinet who are less than useless. Get some new blood in with ideas and start massive changes to the whole crap structure. Until benefits are cut , triple lock changed , do something to sort out the shambles of a tax system and immigration sorted ( ie the illegal parts and the laissez faire policy of letting any old distant family member follow ) they will continue to slide to oblivion.
    I suspect you will be disappointed…
    Don't I know it , I prophesise that he will be a DUD, usual thick socialist policies , doling out cash to spongers and losers and wrecking the economy. It will be a short honeymoon.
    I am so relieved you are back in the Tory fold. It brings joy to us unionists.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,875

    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
    We've grown faster than Germany.

    So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?
    The implication in what you're saying is that Germany would get a boost to its economy if it too left the EU, which to use an old PB trope, is a view...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221
    edited 10:28PM
    CatMan said:

    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    And it's been shite.
    Exactly as Remain said.
    We've grown faster than Germany.

    So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?
    The implication in what you're saying is that Germany would get a boost to its economy if it too left the EU, which to use an old PB trope, is a view...
    When you wrote "is a view" did autocorrect adjust from "is bollocks"?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,756
    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    EXCLUSIVE:

    Andy Burnham is expected to appoint a former Blairite cabinet minister who is one of his oldest political allies as his chief of staff as he seeks to overhaul No 10

    James Purnell, who served as pensions minister, culture secretary, and work and pensions secretary in the New Labour governments of Sir Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, is the frontrunner for the role, The Times has been told

    He is said to be viewed by Burnham as a “serious figure” who is capable of implementing his radical plans to reform Downing Street and Whitehall

    The pair, who entered parliament together in 2001, shared an office as novice Greater Manchester MPs, with Burnham representing Leigh and Purnell holding Stalybridge & Hyde

    Burnham frequently joked that he was overlooked for broadcast interviews in favour of Purnell, who was educated in France and Surrey

    Purnell is chief executive of Flint Global, a major PR and lobbying firm, a role that may present issues over potential conflicts of interest in government


    "We're getting the band back together."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,005
    edited 10:31PM

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    In which case it's a mystery why so many who voted for it are cheesed off. So cheesed off that they're voting in large numbers for clowns and racists.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,875
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/23/populist-and-rightwing-figures-take-aim-at-ed-miliband-and-uk-net-zero-policies-at-anti-woke-davos

    Any sign Kemi was going to take the Tories in a more centrist direction after Jenrick defected seems to be off the mark.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,221
    Just watching Michelle Obama speech from the Obama Presidential Centre opening. Damn, she's good. In her eulogy to Barack she reminds us he won a peace prize.

    They are wonderful. F*** Trump!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,395
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    In which case it's a mystery why so many who voted for it are cheesed off. So cheesed off that they're voting in large numbers for clowns and racists.
    The public don't do grateful. See 1945. Nor should they.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 204
    edited 10:38PM

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    When is a Promise not a Promise; when you only print half of it.

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union..

    That we would do a deal that got us tariff free free trade with no barriers because they needed us more than we needed them...We didn't get that.

    Signed a trade deal and took back control of laws,

    The deal we signed wasn't the one with free access they promised and our own laws turned out to be cutting and pasting teh EU' laws into ours. Virtually nothing we have done we couldn't have introduced within the EU. I can't think of one.

    Money?

    When did they control our money. They had rules on debt and deficits but most leave voters supported fiscal responsibility. 7 year pre brexit deficit, average 5%, post Brexit 7-8% Debt pre Brexit 85% GDP post Brexit 95-100%. Lucky we control our own money. we had an opt out of teh Euro!

    Borders...seriously we leak like a sieve and our agreements with our neighbours to stop refugees are worse. Oh and we let in 1m people. And we weren't in the Schengen anyway. We have a travel area with ireland that remained and now people say it's "The Back door into Britain!"

    Courts;

    Well we no longer have a final appeal to the ECJ, but as that only deals with EU matters it doesn't change much as we are no longer in the EU

    We still follow rulings of the rules ECtHR because it covers teh ECHR which we are still a party to as it is part of the Council of Europe and we didn't leave that.

    Able to sign free trade deals.

    But have they been as good.
    UK trade deal values since Brexit; 70 deals, total value: £20-30bn.
    EU deals since Brexit: Only 5-6 but then they ddin't have do make new ones. Total value: £550bn

    Peter.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,177
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    In which case it's a mystery why so many who voted for it are cheesed off. So cheesed off that they're voting in large numbers for clowns and racists.
    Because Brexit wasn't defined, everyone who voted for Brexit voted for their own personal vision of Brexit.

    Which means by definition most people won't have got what they wanted often because the EU had nothing to do with the things they hated and voted to leave.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,395

    Just watching Michelle Obama speech from the Obama Presidential Centre opening. Damn, she's good. In her eulogy to Barack she reminds us he won a peace prize.

    They are wonderful. F*** Trump!

    As I understand it, Obama was open about being rather embarassed about getting the Peace prize for doing nothing other than winning. Apparently Michelle has forgotten.
  • CatMan said:

    The implication in what you're saying is that Germany would get a boost to its economy if it too left the EU, which to use an old PB trope, is a view...

    The two countries are not comparable at all. Germany could not leave the EU without enormous economic damage. That's not true for the UK, we are much more loosely coupled to the rest of western Europe than Germany is, and left with effects small enough people are still arguing if there were any.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,005
    carnforth said:

    Just watching Michelle Obama speech from the Obama Presidential Centre opening. Damn, she's good. In her eulogy to Barack she reminds us he won a peace prize.

    They are wonderful. F*** Trump!

    As I understand it, Obama was open about being rather embarassed about getting the Peace prize for doing nothing other than winning. Apparently Michelle has forgotten.
    She'd be needling Trump, I imagine.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 6,096
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/neilmhta/status/2068507004222464327#m
    NEW investigation for Wall Street Journal

    - Polymarket is paying scores of offshore clippers to quietly promote its international exchange in the U.S. (though it’s banned from letting Americans trade on the platform)
    - Polymarket made dummy websites mirroring its real site, then paid creators to use the fake site and pretend to win thousands.
    - Creators altered headlines and used outdated footage to imply they won bets—even when they often lost
    - Polymarket paid Adin Ross multiple millions to promote the site

    All that and more in https://www.wsj.com/business/media/polymarket-social-media-bets-prediction-market-441cdeb5?st=57dR12&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

    The number of polymarket "Let's see if we can make an AI make me $$$" videos on youtube is getting quite out of hand. Mysteriously - everyone can just make money! Using polymarket! And this one prompt that's behind a paywall!...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,005
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    In which case it's a mystery why so many who voted for it are cheesed off. So cheesed off that they're voting in large numbers for clowns and racists.
    The public don't do grateful. See 1945. Nor should they.
    A bit of reflection wouldn't come amiss though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,005
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.
    The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs
    I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

    It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.
    Who said they are fundamentals;

    Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

    I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

    Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

    Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

    As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

    Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

    One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

    I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

    Events Dear Boy!

    Peter.
    Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

    The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.
    Total BS
    So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

    They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

    We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

    Exactly as they said.
    In which case it's a mystery why so many who voted for it are cheesed off. So cheesed off that they're voting in large numbers for clowns and racists.
    Because Brexit wasn't defined, everyone who voted for Brexit voted for their own personal vision of Brexit.

    Which means by definition most people won't have got what they wanted often because the EU had nothing to do with the things they hated and voted to leave.
    That is surely part of it, yes. And tbf the biggest single expectation, a drastic fall in immigration, did not happen. So if that was your beef you'll have got no satisfaction.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?

    Kane had a shot on target but it was an easy save.
    And another he put over the bar.
    Not his best night.

    I thought after the first game that Tuchel finally had England playing without fear. What happened ?
    The best way to play v alow press is early ball to feetvstrecg re game wing to wing, move them continuously.

    The worst way is to have your back 4 and defensive midfielder gfilder playing inane tippy tappy passes in your own half allowing the low press to sit in 2 banks of 4 and recover

    We played right into there hands
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,508
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?

    Kane had a shot on target but it was an easy save.
    And another he put over the bar.
    Not his best night.

    I thought after the first game that Tuchel finally had England playing without fear. What happened ?
    The best way to play v alow press is early ball to feetvstrecg re game wing to wing, move them continuously.

    The worst way is to have your back 4 and defensive midfielder gfilder playing inane tippy tappy passes in your own half allowing the low press to sit in 2 banks of 4 and recover

    We played right into there hands
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,157
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

    Right to vote to leave: 30%
    Wrong to vote to leave: 57%

    https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

    Before we get to a Join conversation, what does this do for our local politics? The fact of having left is unpopular, and neither "you're wrong, the Brexit water is lovely" nor "it may be dismal, but reversing it will be worse" feel like statements that will endear Parties of Leave to the general public.

    The More In Common map of Brexit opinion is interesting as well;

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/research/brexit-10-years-on/

    The "only eleven constituencies would vote Leave" finding is a bit showy- lots of narrow outs flipping to narrow ins. But look at the list:

    South Basildon and East Thurrock
    Dagenham and Rainham
    Castle Point
    South Holland and The Deepings
    Romford
    Hornchurch and Upminster
    Dudley
    Bexleyheath and Crayford
    Aldridge-Brownhills
    Boston and Skegness
    Rayleigh and Wickford

    Three of them are in the London Borough of Havering, another three are in South Essex. We're not talking abandoned Red Wall, or Channel coast places overrun with small boats. Whatever the problems these areas have (and yes, life's not perfectly peachy), it's not totally obvious what they are, let alone why Brexit helps.
    Nowhere north of Walsall.
    It's one of the central mysteries of Reform and its supporters. Everyone looks for them in decaying Northern towns. And yes, they have voters there, there are understandable reasons why, and people in those places have genuine problems that genuinely need solving.

    But the easiest place to find Reformers- because it's where most of them are, frankly- is second-tier Home Counties.
    In the "decaying Northern towns" it is the relatively well off that vote Reform. Male Gen X and boomer homeowners rather than those who are skint.

    In all three of Caerphilly, Gorton and Denton and Makerfield the key was getting the vote out. I am sure team Burnham noticed that.
    Made easier when you tell them if they put their cross in the right square you can find yourself mixing with the rich and the famous and even Prime Ministers
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,246
    Brixian59 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The first of all the WC26 games so far with no shot on target in the first half. And have we yet seen one in the second?

    Kane had a shot on target but it was an easy save.
    And another he put over the bar.
    Not his best night.

    I thought after the first game that Tuchel finally had England playing without fear. What happened ?
    The best way to play v alow press is early ball to feetvstrecg re game wing to wing, move them continuously.

    The worst way is to have your back 4 and defensive midfielder gfilder playing inane tippy tappy passes in your own half allowing the low press to sit in 2 banks of 4 and recover

    We played right into there hands
    In summary, England just as toothless in unpicking a low press under Tuchel as Southgate.
    Given that Rooney made the point about stretching Ghana by moving the ball wide down the wings, either both Southgate and Tuchel are less astute than Rooney or the team won't play as instructed by the manager.

    Apart from that, the defence looked vulnerable and lucky to get away with what looked like a stonewall penalty.
    As there's no sign that England will suddenly learn to unpick a low press, and vulnerable on the break, looks like quarter finals at best.
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