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  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,403

    IanB2 said:

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
    It's a train I regularly use.

    Sheffield to London St Pancras.

    St Pancras is the most beautiful and best train station in the UK.

    It also has a Fortnum & Mason in it too.
    `I use it often for Eurostar, great station. Bar upstairs always good for a livener before the jaunt to Paris.
    Shame on Eurostar for being one of the tiny number of rail services in Europe that won’t take pets.

    By contrast, here is is sleeping on the DB ICE train


    It's ludicrous, I travel on the Italian intercity trains a lot and there's always a good dog or two to entertain everyone. Also go Milan - Paris and same. Eurostar is a great idea for a service put poorly executed by the operator.
    Nightmare for bicycles too, despite the obvious (to me) demand for cycle touring in the Low Countries.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,638

    Starmer considers resigning. End of June bet still on

    Theoretically possible but not going to happen.

    Burnham will let Starmer hit his second anniversary in July. He's not in a hurry and if it saves face and lets Starmer go with a bit of dignity, why not agree to that?
    When does Burnham stop being Mayor? Is that job now vacant or is he in post until replaced in a Mayoral by-election, presumably also to be held in July?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    The Ozzie fans look a tad outnumbered?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,748
    Steve Reed, who helped co-found Labour Together, the organisation that ran a secret campaign to destroy the then Labour leadership & regain control of the party, allowing the Labour right to then purge its opponents, says a party that turs in on itself "doesn't go anywhere good"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,018
    I am experiencing a first, supporting Australia at a sporting event.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,125
    edited 6:54PM
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour think Andy Burnham is 'the holy grail'. They're wrong | Andrew Neil"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMrHdZ7wuU

    We don't. We think he's the best option to turn things around. The holy grail wasn't really perceived as the best chance to turn things around. Least that wasn't how it was presented in the accounts I've read.
    Of course Brillo has a track record of making all the right calls. Austerity, Brexit, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss's budget.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,055

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    The best Chancellor of your lifetime had a Scottish accent and a big clunking fist.
    Of course, how could I forget the Chancellor who abolished boom and bust.
    Well, we haven't had much boom since he left office, have we?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,085
    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,115
    Harriet Harman says it's time for another white man to lead Labour.

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2068037517904142485

    'Andy Burnham is going to become prime minister.'
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    The US seems to have nicked the drumroll that starts our own national anthem. And added lots of superflous percussion during.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,073

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    SKS has neither competence or charisma neither does he have any political nouse, any strategy, principles, convictions or any ability to understand the term broad church. He has thin skin, is happy to appoint factional colleagues even when it is known they are close friends with a paedophile. He suspends or expels people of principle and then says they are friends. Nasty piece of work complicit in Genocide has a hierarchy of racism and applies double standards for factional reason.

    And to think on here still manages to retain a few SKS fans despite being useless

    Get the KoN in number 10 now
    I pretty much agree with all that, but Starmer does have some skills. He demonstrated these mostly in opposition rather than in number 10 by making the Labour party electable again after the catastrophic 2019 result.

    I think Burnham is far and away Labour's best chance of advoiding a thrashing in 2029, and perhaps even a second term.

    As @NickPalmer has pointed out, most voters choose party by vibe rather than a spreadsheet analysis of policies. Burnham is relatable in a way that other Labour politicians can rarely match. It will be a fresh start.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,884
    IanB2 said:

    The Ozzie fans look a tad outnumbered?

    Sabbath not as popular as they used to be?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,408

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    I wonder what difference there would have been in Conservative fortunes if Sunak had taken over directly from Johnson.
    That and avoiding a Farage comeback could have led to a very different outcome in the last election.
    Jesus Christ

    Fantasia
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,073
    IanB2 said:

    The US seems to have nicked the drumroll that starts our own national anthem. And added lots of superflous percussion during.

    I see Leicester's own Harry Souttar is Australia Captain.

    He is innocent of our relegation btw, having been on a sick-note nearly all season. Fairly solid, but slow.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,055

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Was Starmer competent though? I'm not sure his record in office bears that out.
    Indeed

    His problem isn’t just having difficulty connecting with the public. It’s also connecting with his cabinet colleagues, his MPs and the Labour Party members.
    He spent most of his life not being a politician, no wonder he's not much good at it. Much the same was true of Sunak.

    It's a fairly weird skill set you need to develop.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,408

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    edited 7:02PM
    The Ozzie goalkeeper was superb during his opening match - let’s hope for a repeat performance

    Meanwhile this US crowd is clearly going to be supremely irritating
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,884
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,860
    edited 7:04PM
    IanB2 said:

    Actually I think that photo above is SW trains. We were on the way to Germany. Nevertheless I do have a photo of him on the ICE somewhere

    He seems a bit small to be attacking ICE agents.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,128
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    On a personal level, I quite like Sunak. He has a puppyish demeanor with a certain amount of self mocking charm that always seemed more genuine than Johnson's studied performance.
    Johnson has far less in common with Churchill than he might have wished for but one thing that they did have in common was that most of their humour and witticisms were supremely practised rather than the spontaneous outbursts that they purported to be.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,638
    IanB2 said:

    The US seems to have nicked the drumroll that starts our own national anthem. And added lots of superflous percussion during.

    It looked to me like half the USA team did not know the words.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,112
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Half right. They went for ridiculous hyperbole against Starmer because it sells the most advertising, not to bring him down. Same effect though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,115
    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    If he replicated his policy of abandoning developer-led affordable housing targets, it might help a lot to improve the quality and quantity of new build housing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,489

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    Well. Computers aren't infallible.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,357
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,357

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It seems extraordinary and on what also looks a straight section of line
  • TimGeoTimGeo Posts: 36
    A good result for Kemi Badenoch in Aberdeen South
  • viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    You can fuck off
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    Boo
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    TimGeo said:

    A good result for Kemi Badenoch in Aberdeen South

    We knew that pigeon would reach you eventually.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,112

    IanB2 said:

    The US seems to have nicked the drumroll that starts our own national anthem. And added lots of superflous percussion during.

    It looked to me like half the USA team did not know the words.
    If the Dems win the next election they should change the anthem to the "He's fat....with piles...he's in the Epstein files" tune. Easier to remember the words.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,018
    Russell Crowe must be so conflicted managing the US v Australia.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,128

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    Well. Computers aren't infallible.
    "Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,112

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
    This doesn't really make your argument - him having his ticket at Arsenal upgraded at the request of his security detail or attending a Taylor Swift concert are completely irrelevant to his job as PM, yet clearly stick in the minds of some of the public. That is media spin and bias.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,006

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Was Starmer competent though? I'm not sure his record in office bears that out.
    Indeed

    His problem isn’t just having difficulty connecting with the public. It’s also connecting with his cabinet colleagues, his MPs and the Labour Party members.
    He spent most of his life not being a politician, no wonder he's not much good at it. Much the same was true of Sunak.

    It's a fairly weird skill set you need to develop.
    The problem with Sunak and Starmer is that they were promoted way too quickly.

    Within five years of becoming MPs they became Chancellor and LOTO respectively, only exceptional people like Dave (PBUH) can cope with that, everyone else cannot.

    Thatcher became leader sixteen years after becoming an MP, for Major it was eleven years, Blair it was eleven years.
    No grinding alongside colleagues, and couldn't manage them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,082
    A famous Belgian.

    Belgium lost a physics giant.

    RIP Francois Englert.

    https://x.com/ThomasVanRiet2/status/2067995408249344117

    Fellow Nobel Laureate with Peter Higgs of eponymous boson fame.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,357

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
    This doesn't really make your argument - him having his ticket at Arsenal upgraded at the request of his security detail or attending a Taylor Swift concert are completely irrelevant to his job as PM, yet clearly stick in the minds of some of the public. That is media spin and bias.
    It wasn't only his Arsenal tickets but his clothes and even glasses which were simply a terrible look
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,378

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
    You could also have mentioned

    - raised taxes and then squandered the money
    - failed to Stop the Boats
    - ended the WFA
    - appointed about the most obviously unsuited chancellor ever
    - not given any idea of where he wants to take the country
    - campaigned as pro-growth then failed to stimulate it
    - been generally politically inept and unaware
    - had his charisma bypass operation
    - etc etc etc

    But yes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,006
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    That's a cop out though. Obviously opponents and media seek to bring down PMs. It's their job to overcome that. If they cannot they aren't up to it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,566
    Hopefully Australia will pick themselves up after the upcoming tea break
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,122

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    He carried on with the Ming vase strategy because it had worked so well in getting a big majority.
    Big mistake. Tt was the opposite of what was required in government.
    That required clarity, courage and leadership.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,521
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
    The visa selling types have also redoubled their efforts.

    It will never end unless you tackle demand.
    But you do recognise that net immigration has dropped dramatically under Starmer, and is likely to have dropped even further with the next release?
    Lots of people fleeing his taxes?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,112

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
    This doesn't really make your argument - him having his ticket at Arsenal upgraded at the request of his security detail or attending a Taylor Swift concert are completely irrelevant to his job as PM, yet clearly stick in the minds of some of the public. That is media spin and bias.
    It wasn't only his Arsenal tickets but his clothes and even glasses which were simply a terrible look
    If he'd fixed house building or helped improve the economy faster than competitors, or stopped the boats, would any of that matter?

    Of course not, its complete tittle tattle in a world where the leader of the party topping the polls takes £5m from an overseas crypto boss without declaring it and gets far less media attention.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,018
    IanB2 said:

    Hopefully Australia will pick themselves up after the upcoming tea break

    Yes, they can get back to the pavilion and regroup.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,128
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    Hopefully Australia will pick themselves up after the upcoming tea break

    Yes, they can get back to the pavilion and regroup.
    They could do with a couple of spinners coming on.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,378
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.
    Sunak learned a lot on the job, as Chancellor and PM. He was obviously ridiculously under-prepared to be Chancellor when Javid was axed, and made loads of stupid decisions in 2020 and 2021, in particular being far too generous with furlough payments and simultaneously leaving whole groups uncovered. Also that stupid restaurant scheme. He needed several years' more experience in more junior roles.

    But he did learned quickly and was doing fairly well in government by the end of it.

    He was always crap politically, but that's a completely different skill.


  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,018
    That US strip makes it look like a giant “Where’s Wally” convention. Clue chaps, he’s in the White House.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,638
    The Minister of Sport will be hoping Starmer stays in post till after Wimbledon and the World Cup Final.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,884
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN's Take (who cares, but here is is, as I rarely comment these days?)

    Starmer is done! Burnham will be PM before summer recess starts (just like Boris in 2019 ??? )

    Aberdeen has proved Kemi's Conservatives are still alive. It might even have taken them off "life support" and placed them in "high dependency" - Like cockroaches in a nuclear winter... Somehow, the Tories ALWAYS survive and have since maybe... 1680 ???

    Yet again Nigel Farage has proved that on the day... When it REALLY counts, he just isn't quite up to it!

    Rupert who???

    Looking to the future:

    Burnham will get a honeymoon and I think its quite likely he calls an election for 6th May 2027, which he will win. Labours majority will be reduced from the weird Labour landslide of 2024 and may be in line with Boris' 80 seat 2019 majority. Labour remain in power until 2032.

    Unexpectedly, Kemi's Conservatives will GAIN seats from the 2024 disaster (maybe ending up with +220)

    Stupid old bores Nigel and Rupert will knock chunks out of each other between downing their next magnums of wine... Hopefully after Election 2027 when they both do surprisingly little, these dafty old fools just fuck off and die (or lets say "retire" for those easily offended 😂 )

    One other take:

    Sadly, as I like her, Kemi may end up a Kinnock figure. Someone who somehow managed ti keep the Tories alive through all of the bad times, but who never ends up being PM. But, I'm increasingly confident that when Lab is eventually turfed out of office, it will be the Conservatives that take over....

    Ob La Di Ob La Da (life goes on)

    Thanks for reading. See you next time.


    It's quite likely that both the LAB and CON vote shares go up at the next GE compared with last time. CON more than LAB so maybe LAB 350 seats CON 200. Reform will do nothing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,377

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    You can fuck off
    Calm down, calm down.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,834
    Fishing said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
    The right wing media set out to destroy Starmer in an orchestrated campaign from day one.

    It worked.

    Everybody knows it except you it seems.
    Maybe if he hadn't had lots of freebies, u turned countless times, and appointed Mandelson he would not be in the position he is today

    He simply wasn't suited to the job
    You could also have mentioned

    - raised taxes and then squandered the money
    - failed to Stop the Boats
    - ended the WFA
    - appointed about the most obviously unsuited chancellor ever
    - not given any idea of where he wants to take the country
    - campaigned as pro-growth then failed to stimulate it
    - been generally politically inept and unaware
    - had his charisma bypass operation
    - etc etc etc

    But yes.
    Although the WFA seems relatively minor, and an understandable decision, I really think it was extraordinarily destructive for Starmer. Alerted Labour people that he wasn't "on their side". All the stuff about being a toolmaker's son just didn't work. He was a "Sir" in a suit. And his lack of ability to express empathy meant he could never recover.

    As for the Man in Black. Well, we shall see.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,884
    4 points is the golden initial target in the World Cup. You will occasionally come second in the group with 4 points. Even if you come third you are virtually certain to get through with 4 points.

    Therefore Scotland should be very pleased if they get a point tonight v Morocco.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,786

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It's extremely rare these days, and our safety standards and records are now very good.

    This is serious and I'm baffled as to how it happened.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,158

    The Minister of Sport will be hoping Starmer stays in post till after Wimbledon and the World Cup Final.

    One of my mates suggested Starmer was going to hang on past the group stages, in case England makes it to the last 8, he's only in it for the tickets.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,073

    The Minister of Sport will be hoping Starmer stays in post till after Wimbledon and the World Cup Final.

    One of my mates suggested Starmer was going to hang on past the group stages, in case England makes it to the last 8, he's only in it for the tickets.
    If match tickets are wanted, I am sure Burnham would include them in the golden handshake.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,086

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It's extremely rare these days, and our safety standards and records are now very good.

    This is serious and I'm baffled as to how it happened.
    Something has gone disastrously wrong
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,950

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour think Andy Burnham is 'the holy grail'. They're wrong | Andrew Neil"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMrHdZ7wuU

    We don't. We think he's the best option to turn things around. The holy grail wasn't really perceived as the best chance to turn things around. Least that wasn't how it was presented in the accounts I've read.
    Of course Brillo has a track record of making all the right calls. Austerity, Brexit, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss's budget.
    Ought to have gracefully moved into 'contemplation only' mode by now. Many of the world's problems are caused by self-regarding old men not doing that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,073

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It's extremely rare these days, and our safety standards and records are now very good.

    This is serious and I'm baffled as to how it happened.
    It seems both trains were southbound and one ran directly into another, so presumably a signalling error.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,377
    Mindboggling that a train crash can happen in this day and age.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,018
    It’s nice having a multi national pundit team, Walcott, Rooney and Oliver Giroud but really what is the point of having someone who is so hard to understand. Oliver Giroud isn’t great either.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,698
    I'm really impressed with this US side.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930
    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Always said Mauricio Pochettino was a top coach.

    He was my first choice to replace Klopp.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,158
    Foxy said:

    The Minister of Sport will be hoping Starmer stays in post till after Wimbledon and the World Cup Final.

    One of my mates suggested Starmer was going to hang on past the group stages, in case England makes it to the last 8, he's only in it for the tickets.
    If match tickets are wanted, I am sure Burnham would include them in the golden handshake.
    I said that he should make it part of his 'offer' as he slides the whisky and revolver across the table.

    'Look lad, don't make a fuss and I'll sort you out with good seats for the final. Not next to Prince William, obviously, that's my seat'.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,073
    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Yes. It is probably good for the tournament if the USA progress.

    Shit in many arrangements, but this World Cup is actually producing decent entertainment and also the fans seem to be enjoying themselves boisterously but harmlessly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,638
    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Home advantage will help. What price a Mexico vs USA final?
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    You can fuck off
    I can. I won't. Such is life.
    Then I suggest you stop replying to my posts and I will ignore you also.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,950
    edited 8:09PM
    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    That's fair criticism about lack of a plan but you are overegging it bigtime. He took over as LOTO in 2020 and until Johnson imploded (2022) and then Truss trashed the Tory brand beyond redemption the realistic goal was rebuilding the party not 'preparing for government'. He had less than 2 years for that.

    His remarkable inability to connect with the public is why he has become in short order the most unpopular PM in living memory. That's the main reason he's having to be replaced. It's not the only reason but it's by a distance the main one.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930
    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,158
    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    That's fair criticism about lack of a plan but you are overegging it bigtime. He took over as LOTO in 2020 and until Johnson imploded (2022) and then Truss trashed the Tory brand beyond redemption the realistic goal was rebuilding the party not 'preparing for government'. He had less than 2 years for that.

    His remarkable inability to connect with the public is why he has become in short order the most unpopular PM in living memory. That's the main reason he's having to be replaced. It's not the only reason but it's by a distance the main one.
    His poor reaction to Southport, where he was like a rabbit in the headlights rather than a father of the nation, turned the public against him. He never recovered.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,638

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Sadly, this will be seen as proof that vaccines don't work.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Sadly, this will be seen as proof that vaccines don't work.
    Indeed.

    Just see the reaction to the HPV vaccine in the MAGA world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,006

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,950
    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Yes you'd hate to see it but they can go deep. I did them for small stakes at 90 - but only as a trading bet because surely they can't win it. The thought of that with Donald Trump as president is literally unbearable. I wouldn't watch another minute of football for the rest of my life if that somehow happened.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,950
    edited 8:21PM

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    That's fair criticism about lack of a plan but you are overegging it bigtime. He took over as LOTO in 2020 and until Johnson imploded (2022) and then Truss trashed the Tory brand beyond redemption the realistic goal was rebuilding the party not 'preparing for government'. He had less than 2 years for that.

    His remarkable inability to connect with the public is why he has become in short order the most unpopular PM in living memory. That's the main reason he's having to be replaced. It's not the only reason but it's by a distance the main one.
    His poor reaction to Southport, where he was like a rabbit in the headlights rather than a father of the nation, turned the public against him. He never recovered.
    I don't think it was any one episode.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,408
    edited 8:19PM

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    That's fair criticism about lack of a plan but you are overegging it bigtime. He took over as LOTO in 2020 and until Johnson imploded (2022) and then Truss trashed the Tory brand beyond redemption the realistic goal was rebuilding the party not 'preparing for government'. He had less than 2 years for that.

    His remarkable inability to connect with the public is why he has become in short order the most unpopular PM in living memory. That's the main reason he's having to be replaced. It's not the only reason but it's by a distance the main one.
    His poor reaction to Southport, where he was like a rabbit in the headlights rather than a father of the nation, turned the public against him. He never recovered.
    His reaction to Southport was to show empathy and sympathy privately to those bereaved, not like the ghoulish action of some of his predecessors.

    He then had to deal with rioting led and orchestrated by Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,884
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Yes you'd hate to see it but they can go deep. I did them for small stakes at 90 - but only as a trading bet because surely they can't win it. The thought of that with Donald Trump as president is literally unbearable. I wouldn't watch another minute of football for the rest of my life if that somehow happened.
    No chance of USA winning it.

    But I think I did say (to you,) that Donald wouldn't win in 2024

    So you never know!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,206

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
    The visa selling types have also redoubled their efforts.

    It will never end unless you tackle demand.
    But you do recognise that net immigration has dropped dramatically under Starmer, and is likely to have dropped even further with the next release?
    Lots of people fleeing his taxes?
    The fall in net immigration is largely from a fall in gross immigration, rather than any significant rise in emigration.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930
    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Because some people are absolute [redacted].

    One of my father's colleague said recently he mentioned vaccinating a child and their parent threatened them with violence, this isn't an uncommon experience in the last few years.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930
    One person has died in that train crash - BTP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,950

    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    I'm really impressed with this US side.

    Yes you'd hate to see it but they can go deep. I did them for small stakes at 90 - but only as a trading bet because surely they can't win it. The thought of that with Donald Trump as president is literally unbearable. I wouldn't watch another minute of football for the rest of my life if that somehow happened.
    No chance of USA winning it.

    But I think I did say (to you,) that Donald wouldn't win in 2024

    So you never know!
    Well we both thought that then. What a tragedy for America and the world that we were wrong.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,408
    Foxy said:

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It's extremely rare these days, and our safety standards and records are now very good.

    This is serious and I'm baffled as to how it happened.
    It seems both trains were southbound and one ran directly into another, so presumably a signalling error.
    Sky reporting a broken down train whose tracking and safety equipment was faulty
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,206

    Starmer considers resigning. End of June bet still on

    Theoretically possible but not going to happen.

    Burnham will let Starmer hit his second anniversary in July. He's not in a hurry and if it saves face and lets Starmer go with a bit of dignity, why not agree to that?
    When does Burnham stop being Mayor? Is that job now vacant or is he in post until replaced in a Mayoral by-election, presumably also to be held in July?
    I believe he stopped being Mayor the instant he was elected an MP. By law, AIUI, you cannot be an MP and a mayor who has a police & crime commissioner role. In being elected an MP, he thus instantly becomes disqualified for the mayor role.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,055
    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Same reason we apparently need to relearn the lesson that Nazis are a bad thing. We've had getting on for seventy years of peace and health and whatnot, and come to take it as read, rather than things that require a bit (not very much) effort on our parts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,418

    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Because some people are absolute [redacted].

    One of my father's colleague said recently he mentioned vaccinating a child and their parent threatened them with violence, this isn't an uncommon experience in the last few years.
    But it did mean Andrew Wakefield got to shag Elle Macpherson, so there’s that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,125

    Harriet Harman says it's time for another white man to lead Labour.

    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2068037517904142485

    'Andy Burnham is going to become prime minister.'

    What terrible racism are you aiming at we white boys?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,930
    edited 8:28PM

    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Because some people are absolute [redacted].

    One of my father's colleague said recently he mentioned vaccinating a child and their parent threatened them with violence, this isn't an uncommon experience in the last few years.
    But it did mean Andrew Wakefield got to shag Elle Macpherson, so there’s that.
    It's worse than that.

    We've got a new generation, radicalised by social media, who are anti-vaxx, we'll see the damage in the UK in the next few years as herd immunity is wiped out.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,489

    How does a collision between two trains even happen? You would think that there would be computer safeguards these days

    It's extremely rare these days, and our safety standards and records are now very good.

    This is serious and I'm baffled as to how it happened.
    Reporting on RTÉ tonight would suggest it was a signalling failure (stationary train stopped at a signal hit by a train following behind).

    Would have thought that the signals would fail safe, so something had to go seriously wrong for that not to be the case.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,158
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
    I would argue that the big problem was that they had absolutely no idea what to do once in Government. They had wasted 15 years in opposition in-fighting and complaining. They couldn't do Blair's trick of just carrying on with a competent Tory administration's policies (there wasn't one). The global conditions remained unfavourable for coasting.

    So what changes when Andy Burnham takes the helm? How do they magic up a decade of intellectual effort and policy development in, say, 6 weeks?

    On the other hand, the other guys clown shoes are bigger, so they have that electoral asset - which is all they seem to care about. Government is just an inconvenient distraction from campaigning.
    That's fair criticism about lack of a plan but you are overegging it bigtime. He took over as LOTO in 2020 and until Johnson imploded (2022) and then Truss trashed the Tory brand beyond redemption the realistic goal was rebuilding the party not 'preparing for government'. He had less than 2 years for that.

    His remarkable inability to connect with the public is why he has become in short order the most unpopular PM in living memory. That's the main reason he's having to be replaced. It's not the only reason but it's by a distance the main one.
    His poor reaction to Southport, where he was like a rabbit in the headlights rather than a father of the nation, turned the public against him. He never recovered.
    I don't think it was any one episode.
    It just picked up speed from there, unpopular policy decisions like cutting your old mum's winter fuel allowance and his oddly poor communication skills. For a former barrister, he's not great at responses which aren't very scripted.

    'Friends' are always quoted as saying how very witty he is, and great company, but it doesn't come over that way to the public. Reminds me a bit of Gordon Brown in that respect.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,206

    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Because some people are absolute [redacted].

    One of my father's colleague said recently he mentioned vaccinating a child and their parent threatened them with violence, this isn't an uncommon experience in the last few years.
    But it did mean Andrew Wakefield got to shag Elle Macpherson, so there’s that.
    It's worse than that.

    We've got a new generation, radicalised by social media, who are anti-vaxx, we'll see the damage in the UK in the next few years as herd immunity is wiped out.
    And plenty of them are in Reform.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,666

    Starmer considers resigning. End of June bet still on

    Theoretically possible but not going to happen.

    Burnham will let Starmer hit his second anniversary in July. He's not in a hurry and if it saves face and lets Starmer go with a bit of dignity, why not agree to that?
    When does Burnham stop being Mayor? Is that job now vacant or is he in post until replaced in a Mayoral by-election, presumably also to be held in July?
    I believe he stopped being Mayor the instant he was elected an MP. By law, AIUI, you cannot be an MP and a mayor who has a police & crime commissioner role. In being elected an MP, he thus instantly becomes disqualified for the mayor role.
    Yep. There's a 30 or 40 day clock that has now started (i forget the exact number) before there HAS to be an election for new mayor.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,914
    In my Not Entirely Humble Opinion: If the US does well in the World Cup, it will be a set back for the Loser.

    First, because he won't be able to attend any of the matches, because the boos would be so loud.

    Second, because the team is "diverse". In this sport, as well as others, those choosing the players almost always choose players for their athletic skills, rather than the color of their skins.

    Third, because some of those players, I am nearly certain, are immigrants, or the children of immigrants.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,666
    Every time I check the Met office forecast for my bit of midlands the likely weather midweek to Friday gets hotter.

    The French Cauldron is coming.

    Brace.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 6,083

    kle4 said:

    A major flu outbreak has sickened nearly 160 troops at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas less than two months after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that U.S. troops would no longer be required to be vaccinated for the flu—NYT

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/18/us/flu-outbreak-air-force-base.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rFA.LASy.Em3OYzAscBzB&smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Why do we need to relearn the lesson that vaccines are a good thing?
    Same reason we apparently need to relearn the lesson that Nazis are a bad thing. We've had getting on for seventy years of peace and health and whatnot, and come to take it as read, rather than things that require a bit (not very much) effort on our parts.
    A bit of effort over many years doesn't get you a prime slot on a Kuenssberg interview show thought. So why bother?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,418

    Every time I check the Met office forecast for my bit of midlands the likely weather midweek to Friday gets hotter.

    The French Cauldron is coming.

    Brace.

    My bit of wilts is showing 30 deg C. Think I’ll cope.
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