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The cabinet are revolting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,785
    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,658

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    27m
    From the Department of Writing on the Wall:

    With over 100 Labour MPs saying Starmer should go and soundings with the Cabinet not encouraging, PM to spend the weekend with his wife considering his position.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,066
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sean Thomas
    My 20-year-old daughter can’t find a job, and the reason is infuriating
    Entry-level work used to be done by our children – now it seems to be given to immigrants"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/19/my-20-year-old-daughter-cant-find-a-job-reason-infuriating/

    It's one of those irregular thingies:

    My unemployed daughter is priced out of the market by immigrants.
    Your unemployed daughter needs to get on her bike.
    His unemployed daughter is a bone-idle scrounger.
    It can be hard for university students to get work because they're neither at home nor at their place of study all year long. I grew up in the town where I believe Sean T's daughter is at university and even in the 1990s when I worked in a restaurant in the town they employed a lot more local teenagers than university students, presumably because us kids were there all year round. The few female university students they did employ I remember very fondly... I don't think they employed any "immigrants", it was a very monocultural place in those days.
    My 20yo daughter isn't allowed to work during term time, and luckily found an internship in London this summer. Finding temp work in the holidays is very tough, but as I say most employers don't want staff who can only work a fraction of the year.
    Yes, my lad wasn't allowed to work during term time either and also found an internship in London in the summer after his second year. That internship was his passport to a job after graduation; hopefully your daughter's internship will be equally beneficial to her. A big well done to her for landing it! I know how competitive they can be.
    How was he not allowed to work in term time? Students are private citizens and can do what they want. Many of my pharmacy students have jobs. It’s tough working and studying but it pays the bills a bit.
    My parents scrapped and sacrificed so that I didn't need to work at university. In fact I was pretty much forbidden. They saw it as investing in my future.
    My old man made me work for a good chunk of the summer holidays in manual jobs from the age of 16 he wanted me to not be an utter twat and to have to learn to get on with people from all walks of life and experience physical work. He made it very simple, you can go and earn money and you will actually end up enjoying it or you can have a small amount of allowance and miss out on the opportunity.

    I am so glad I did. Worked on building sites, car washing for garages etc. met loads of great people and once they got over my accent and my life/education, there was always infinitely more in common. It’s not like I was a horny handed son of toil but was still a good life experience.

    I still bump into mechanics, lorry drivers, chippies etc from decades ago and we laugh and have a pint.

    His family did the same to him and it is something I will always thank him for.
    Yes, I worked when at 6th form then Med School. Petrol stations, fast food, barwork etc. I always foundjobs by simply walking into places and asking if they needed any summer staff, or bar work during term time. I pretty much always found work within the day, and that was when there were 3 million unemployed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124
    Lots of absolute hatred for Burnham on radio phone ins today. Even more for Starmer, but nothing but love for yesterday's real winner, Scotland's very own Mrs Badenoch.

    Hallelujah! The Tories are cleansed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,488

    Zelensky threatens a new Belarusian front:

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/2068005484494307834

    Zelensky:

    I am giving Lukashenko one week to withdraw the military equipment from the Ukrainian border that is being used to adjust artillery fire against the Ukrainian population.

    Otherwise, we will do it ourselves.

    The Ukrainians destroyed some of this equipment in February earlier this year.

    https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-destroys-guidance-network-for-shahed-1772206907.html

    Incidentally, the mesh system used sounds a lot like Meshtastic, something I've been vaguely interested in for a while. https://meshtastic.org/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,785

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His head is screwed on and he doesn't live in fantasy land?

    Ed Miliband being Chancellor fills me with terror.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124
    edited 5:39PM

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,785

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    On the jobs, can recent graduates be classroom assistants, which I am told are short of recruits, when I reached the bottom of a rabbit hole via Lollipop People and School Transport Supervisors.

    I started from a surprising number of road deaths on the old A38, which is a 10-12k veh/day route into town. One 31 y/o drunk on who hit a lamp post on his motorbike , which was not in safe condition, at speed at 11:20pm, one elderly lady who tipped out of her mobility scooter and hit her head on the ground (unusual circs), and another couple without details, altogether running at perhaps one per annum.

    The lollipop people terms are difficult. It is ~30 minutes at fixed times 8:30/9 and 3/3:30-ish twice a day, for essentially minimum wage, with pro-rata holiday, but not within term time. So high prices for travel. So it is a hard tie-down, with no weekday away time possible outside school holidays, for ~170 days per annum, for about £13 per day. That must limit the people who could do it.

    I think the daughter in question is looking for summer work rather than term-time.

    If she cannot find any work in our capital city packed with businesses that need extra staff for the summer tourist season then I suspect she isn't trying very hard, particularly with a dad who has lots of wealthy friends*

    *it is quite possible that he has none that he would trust with his daughter.
    My daughter only found her job by going through a friend who already worked there (aka nepotism). Many of her friends in London find getting jobs in pubs and restaurants (and the like) next to impossible.
    People always hire on reference or referral.

    No-one wants a cold hire anymore than a cold call.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,010
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sean Thomas
    My 20-year-old daughter can’t find a job, and the reason is infuriating
    Entry-level work used to be done by our children – now it seems to be given to immigrants"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/19/my-20-year-old-daughter-cant-find-a-job-reason-infuriating/

    It's one of those irregular thingies:

    My unemployed daughter is priced out of the market by immigrants.
    Your unemployed daughter needs to get on her bike.
    His unemployed daughter is a bone-idle scrounger.
    It can be hard for university students to get work because they're neither at home nor at their place of study all year long. I grew up in the town where I believe Sean T's daughter is at university and even in the 1990s when I worked in a restaurant in the town they employed a lot more local teenagers than university students, presumably because us kids were there all year round. The few female university students they did employ I remember very fondly... I don't think they employed any "immigrants", it was a very monocultural place in those days.
    My 20yo daughter isn't allowed to work during term time, and luckily found an internship in London this summer. Finding temp work in the holidays is very tough, but as I say most employers don't want staff who can only work a fraction of the year.
    Yes, my lad wasn't allowed to work during term time either and also found an internship in London in the summer after his second year. That internship was his passport to a job after graduation; hopefully your daughter's internship will be equally beneficial to her. A big well done to her for landing it! I know how competitive they can be.
    How was he not allowed to work in term time? Students are private citizens and can do what they want. Many of my pharmacy students have jobs. It’s tough working and studying but it pays the bills a bit.
    My parents scrapped and sacrificed so that I didn't need to work at university. In fact I was pretty much forbidden. They saw it as investing in my future.
    My old man made me work for a good chunk of the summer holidays in manual jobs from the age of 16 he wanted me to not be an utter twat and to have to learn to get on with people from all walks of life and experience physical work. He made it very simple, you can go and earn money and you will actually end up enjoying it or you can have a small amount of allowance and miss out on the opportunity.

    I am so glad I did. Worked on building sites, car washing for garages etc. met loads of great people and once they got over my accent and my life/education, there was always infinitely more in common. It’s not like I was a horny handed son of toil but was still a good life experience.

    I still bump into mechanics, lorry drivers, chippies etc from decades ago and we laugh and have a pint.

    His family did the same to him and it is something I will always thank him for.
    Yes, I worked when at 6th form then Med School. Petrol stations, fast food, barwork etc. I always foundjobs by simply walking into places and asking if they needed any summer staff, or bar work during term time. I pretty much always found work within the day, and that was when there were 3 million unemployed.
    To be fair, I didn’t walk in and ask, he set me up with people he knew and, I found out later, offered to cover my wages if I was shit but I always worked my arse off to not let him down but also out of pride. If you are a public schoolboy in a lot of these places everyone assumes you are a bit wet and weak so once you show you are not at all so you are accepted and it was great fun. I learnt so much in every way.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,964
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Hmm. Another of my 'predictions' just half landed, ish (very ish).

    The Transport Secretary has resigned, so we will have a new one.

    Has she? (Heidi Alexander). It's not on the news feeds nor her twitter
    For all those of you who are wondering what Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander is like IRL, here is an interview Geoff Marshall did with her when the GBR livery was introduced to trains

    https://youtu.be/8vvyNzyyiwk?si=uiI84noNb--0fAb0&t=127
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,396
    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,785

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    It wasn't imperative.

    If he'd led with a clear vision and programme, he'd have still got a decent voteshare and majority.

    It's called leadership.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,785
    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    No, it's because it's a story they don't want to tell because it'd cause party management issues.

    That's how nuts that party is.
  • Fake news
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,403
    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    I wouldn't ever bring attention to it even if the numbers are falling. Even if they get it down to something like 10,000, that's still an insane number for 95% people in the UK.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923
    Major train accident involving two East Midland Railway trains near Bedford.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,488
    Eabhal said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    I wouldn't ever bring attention to it even if the numbers are falling. Even if they get it down to something like 10,000, that's still an insane number for 95% people in the UK.
    Yes. They'd need to get it down to zero.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124
    edited 5:50PM

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    It wasn't imperative.

    If he'd led with a clear vision and programme, he'd have still got a decent voteshare and majority.

    It's called leadership.
    Even if he had a vision which he didn't, not winning because the Tory press have undermined the campaign is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

    He had no plan, he was a charisma -free perennial employee and not a leader. I was happy to give him a try, but the Robbins affair demonstrates he had no class.

    Unfortunately one of the least effective PMs since the war. I would rate Home, Callaghan, Sunak and May higher. Only Truss and Johnson were worse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,066
    edited 5:49PM
    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923
    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,658
    Galloway to stand for Manch mayor.

    He's already belly-aching about the July date.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,867
    Thankfully, looks like the trains are both on the track and upright, with some crumpled bits.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124

    Galloway to stand for Manch mayor.

    He's already belly-aching about the July date.

    Meow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,867
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
    The visa selling types have also redoubled their efforts.

    It will never end unless you tackle demand.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,658
    About to head out to pick up my Friday curry paid for out of this week's pol betting wins.

    All I need now is for Haigh to be made next CoE this summer and it's a top season of betting.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,658
    About to head out to pick up my Friday curry paid for out of this week's pol betting wins.

    All I need now is for Haigh to be made next CoE this summer and it's a top season of betting.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
    Kemi's intervention is working?
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,152

    Thankfully, looks like the trains are both on the track and upright, with some crumpled bits.
    Radio 5 have got some eyewitnesses who say a massive amount of emergency services including multiple air ambulances have been deployed, which I very much hope is over cautiousness.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124

    About to head out to pick up my Friday curry paid for out of this week's pol betting wins.

    All I need now is for Haigh to be made next CoE this summer and it's a top season of betting.

    Burnham has employed a top team of economic advisors with blue chip resumes. Therefore putting Haigh in Number 11 would seem incongruous.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,152
    The Times quoted on Twitter saying that there are a lot of casualties in this train crash. Godspeed to the emergency services, horrendous situation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,066

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Boat crossings are the lowest since 2021 .

    And no one knows about this because the No 10 comms are still useless !

    They are certainly down, and it seems more than the weather, which does average out over time. Probably risking a hostage to fortune if crowing about it just yet.

    The smugglers are having to launch from much further away in Dieppe or Belgium because of French enforcement on the Calais coast. Also the Bulgarians have been interdicting boat deliveries.
    The visa selling types have also redoubled their efforts.

    It will never end unless you tackle demand.
    But you do recognise that net immigration has dropped dramatically under Starmer, and is likely to have dropped even further with the next release?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    edited 6:01PM

    The Times quoted on Twitter saying that there are a lot of casualties in this train crash. Godspeed to the emergency services, horrendous situation.

    I recall a local vicar on hearing an ambulance siren saying to his parishioner that doesn't sound good

    The parishioner responded - it does - it means help coming
  • Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,115
    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/2067953734500450370

    I am the @WorkersPartyGB candidate for Mayor of Greater Manchester. Labour under Starmer are apparently running so scared of losing the position they are planning the election for July 30, the dog days of summer in the middle of the summer holidays! I have today asked my lawyers @KRWLaw to seek from the Starmer government the assurance that I will be allowed by them to fight the election and not held, again, by armed police officers under the Terrorism Act at the airport! What else can I do, fight a British election from China?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,126

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923
    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,115

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    And was also a combative health secretary.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,712
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Hmm. Another of my 'predictions' just half landed, ish (very ish).

    The Transport Secretary has resigned, so we will have a new one.

    Has she? (Heidi Alexander). It's not on the news feeds nor her twitter
    For all those of you who are wondering what Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander is like IRL, here is an interview Geoff Marshall did with her when the GBR livery was introduced to trains

    https://youtu.be/8vvyNzyyiwk?si=uiI84noNb--0fAb0&t=127
    Hmmm. I thought I saw it somewhere.

    Apologies if I'm over the mark.

    Watch that (potential) space !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,998
    edited 6:13PM
    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,081
    Just as well, since the RAF can't.
    Up to now we've had to rely on the US.

    History made in the skies✈️

    For the first time, a French A330 MRTT has refuelled an RAF Rivet Joint, showcasing the growing integration of Nato air power

    https://x.com/ForcesNews/status/2068012180239216706
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,964

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    edited 6:13PM
    I hope Starmer's wife persuades him to bow out gracefully for everyone's sake and not make the same mistake that Jill Biden did by encouraging Joe to go on

    He has to accept the public and his party have lost confidence in him so much that it is impossible to recover from his fall from grace
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,374

    About to head out to pick up my Friday curry paid for out of this week's pol betting wins.

    All I need now is for Haigh to be made next CoE this summer and it's a top season of betting.

    Burnham has employed a top team of economic advisors with blue chip resumes. Therefore putting Haigh in Number 11 would seem incongruous.
    I still think Miliband. He's got the Treasury experience and has the influence to ruin the coronation if not kept on side.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,374

    About to head out to pick up my Friday curry paid for out of this week's pol betting wins.

    All I need now is for Haigh to be made next CoE this summer and it's a top season of betting.

    Burnham has employed a top team of economic advisors with blue chip resumes. Therefore putting Haigh in Number 11 would seem incongruous.
    I still think Miliband. He's got the Treasury experience and has the influence to ruin the coronation if not kept on side.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,998

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Seemed like a prediction based on the report to me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Seemed like a prediction based on the report to me.
    Everything is so febrile it would not be a surprise if he had resigned, though it would have been immediate breaking news
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    Sky suggesting many casualties
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 177
    Nigelb said:

    Just as well, since the RAF can't.
    Up to now we've had to rely on the US.

    History made in the skies✈️

    For the first time, a French A330 MRTT has refuelled an RAF Rivet Joint, showcasing the growing integration of Nato air power

    https://x.com/ForcesNews/status/2068012180239216706

    Given we have had NATO standards for things like this since it set ATP-56 in 1991 that we are only doing it now isn't something to crow about.

    Horray it's only taken "The Greatest Alliance the World has ever seen!" 25 years!

    Peter.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,760

    Zelensky threatens a new Belarusian front:

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/2068005484494307834

    Zelensky:

    I am giving Lukashenko one week to withdraw the military equipment from the Ukrainian border that is being used to adjust artillery fire against the Ukrainian population.

    Otherwise, we will do it ourselves.

    The Ukrainians destroyed some of this equipment in February earlier this year.

    https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-destroys-guidance-network-for-shahed-1772206907.html

    Incidentally, the mesh system used sounds a lot like Meshtastic, something I've been vaguely interested in for a while. https://meshtastic.org/
    There are some online meshtastic node maps that you might want to look at. Last time I thought about messing with it there weren’t any other nodes with 30 miles of my location.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561
    edited 6:23PM

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His head is screwed on and he doesn't live in fantasy land?

    Ed Miliband being Chancellor fills me with terror.
    I checked my next chancellor market this morning, and found I only had a single small punt on Miliband, placed way back, which was sitting just marginally in the green. I laid half of it off, on the back of all the speculation around alternatives, and checking back just now see that the rest of my position is now marginally in the red. So the markets are going cold on Miliband.

    I am much happier with my next PM market, which mostly consists of lays on Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Rupert Lowe, Robert Jenrick, James Cleverley, and Kemi, some at surprisingly good odds, with hardly any backs at all. Which leaves me nicely green on all the Labour contenders. Really, the sensible thing to do now would be to lay Streeting down to zero, given his vanishing chances, but the odds are such that the payoff is tiny compared with letting it ride just in case he can pull off some sort of miracle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,998

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Labour Cabinet infighting already?
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,152

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    kle4 said:

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Labour Cabinet infighting already?
    Transport Secretary just commented she is deeply concerned over collision
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
    It's a train I regularly use.

    Sheffield to London St Pancras.

    St Pancras is the most beautiful and best train station in the UK.

    It also has a Fortnum & Mason in it too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    And was also a combative health secretary.
    You are wrong. Enoch Powell was never Chancellor.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,406

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,760
    There’s a police helicopter circling near the site of the new theme park just south of Bedford.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,126

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    Nigel Lawson went to Oxford. Christ Church to be precise.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,156
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Sean Thomas
    My 20-year-old daughter can’t find a job, and the reason is infuriating
    Entry-level work used to be done by our children – now it seems to be given to immigrants"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/19/my-20-year-old-daughter-cant-find-a-job-reason-infuriating/

    It's one of those irregular thingies:

    My unemployed daughter is priced out of the market by immigrants.
    Your unemployed daughter needs to get on her bike.
    His unemployed daughter is a bone-idle scrounger.
    It can be hard for university students to get work because they're neither at home nor at their place of study all year long. I grew up in the town where I believe Sean T's daughter is at university and even in the 1990s when I worked in a restaurant in the town they employed a lot more local teenagers than university students, presumably because us kids were there all year round. The few female university students they did employ I remember very fondly... I don't think they employed any "immigrants", it was a very monocultural place in those days.
    My 20yo daughter isn't allowed to work during term time, and luckily found an internship in London this summer. Finding temp work in the holidays is very tough, but as I say most employers don't want staff who can only work a fraction of the year.
    Yes, my lad wasn't allowed to work during term time either and also found an internship in London in the summer after his second year. That internship was his passport to a job after graduation; hopefully your daughter's internship will be equally beneficial to her. A big well done to her for landing it! I know how competitive they can be.
    How was he not allowed to work in term time? Students are private citizens and can do what they want. Many of my pharmacy students have jobs. It’s tough working and studying but it pays the bills a bit.
    My parents scrapped and sacrificed so that I didn't need to work at university. In fact I was pretty much forbidden. They saw it as investing in my future.
    My old man made me work for a good chunk of the summer holidays in manual jobs from the age of 16 he wanted me to not be an utter twat and to have to learn to get on with people from all walks of life and experience physical work. He made it very simple, you can go and earn money and you will actually end up enjoying it or you can have a small amount of allowance and miss out on the opportunity.

    I am so glad I did. Worked on building sites, car washing for garages etc. met loads of great people and once they got over my accent and my life/education, there was always infinitely more in common. It’s not like I was a horny handed son of toil but was still a good life experience.

    I still bump into mechanics, lorry drivers, chippies etc from decades ago and we laugh and have a pint.

    His family did the same to him and it is something I will always thank him for.
    Yes, I worked when at 6th form then Med School. Petrol stations, fast food, barwork etc. I always foundjobs by simply walking into places and asking if they needed any summer staff, or bar work during term time. I pretty much always found work within the day, and that was when there were 3 million unemployed.
    To be fair, I didn’t walk in and ask, he set me up with people he knew and, I found out later, offered to cover my wages if I was shit but I always worked my arse off to not let him down but also out of pride. If you are a public schoolboy in a lot of these places everyone assumes you are a bit wet and weak so once you show you are not at all so you are accepted and it was great fun. I learnt so much in every way.
    Yes, I learnt a lot by my casual jobs that has been useful later in life. In particular I learned customer service and how to handle complaints. Most important was learning how hard some people have to work to just scrape by, and how shitty some jobs are. I never want to clean out and polish another deep fat fryer.

    Far from interfering with my studies, it motivated me to work hard so as to never have to work such conditions again. I had fun too, as the workforce was generally the same age.
    Fairliered jnr. started as a kitchen porter. Mrs. F had to try an clean his bolognaise stained uniforms. However, the experience on his CV put him ahead of other graduates when looking for a full time job.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,355
    Brixian59 said:

    viewcode said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    • Please stop announcing your speculation as fact.
    • He has a Jewish wife and Jewish kids, and Sabbath is about to start in two hours. He's not going to announce anything tonight.
    To be honest when I read that I thought he must have resigned
    Oh the irony of that statement.

    His love for his wife, his family and their faith has made a significant impact on this life long atheist.

    How impossibly hard it must have been for him, between a rock and a hard place.

    A Party whose core plead for Palestine recognition, a family following the Jewish faith.

    An impossible conundrum

    Attacked from the left for being pro Israel, which he isn't, attacked by the right and Israel for being anti semitic, which he isn't. Desperate to protect his family from the media, which he has always done.

    He may not be indeed he isn't a great politician but take politics out if the equation and he us an intensely decent family man.

    Which makes the constant right wing media character assassination the more desperate and sickening.
    What on earth are you on about this right wing media nonsense

    This is Labour defenestrating their sitting PM all on their own
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,712
    An interesting video.

    Ashley Neil out cycling, wearing "where am I looking" eye tracking glasses.

    There's a fair but of it - 25 minutes - but he's done a pretty good, and thought-provoking, commentary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV23izkFAY4
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,156
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923
    Former Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman tells @BethRigby Andy Burnham is going to be the next Prime Minister.

    “Well, I hate to quote Boris Johnson, but do you remember when he said when he realised that he had to leave government? And he said about his ministers and his MPs, the 'herd is moving'.

    "Well, I have to say that it's not only that the herd is moving, they are stampeding."


    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/2068031068461043824
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,152

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
    It's a train I regularly use.

    Sheffield to London St Pancras.

    St Pancras is the most beautiful and best train station in the UK.

    It also has a Fortnum & Mason in it too.
    `I use it often for Eurostar, great station. Bar upstairs always good for a livener before the jaunt to Paris.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 790


    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    27m
    From the Department of Writing on the Wall:

    With over 100 Labour MPs saying Starmer should go and soundings with the Cabinet not encouraging, PM to spend the weekend with his wife considering his position.

    Give it the weekend on the croquet lawn at Chequers and he'll be right as rain to represent the UK at summits and challenge leadership contenders head on
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,156

    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/2067953734500450370

    I am the @WorkersPartyGB candidate for Mayor of Greater Manchester. Labour under Starmer are apparently running so scared of losing the position they are planning the election for July 30, the dog days of summer in the middle of the summer holidays! I have today asked my lawyers @KRWLaw to seek from the Starmer government the assurance that I will be allowed by them to fight the election and not held, again, by armed police officers under the Terrorism Act at the airport! What else can I do, fight a British election from China?

    Well, Musk fought the Restore campaign in Makerfield from the USA, so I don’t see why Galloway shouldn’t fight the mayoral campaign from China.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
    It's a train I regularly use.

    Sheffield to London St Pancras.

    St Pancras is the most beautiful and best train station in the UK.

    It also has a Fortnum & Mason in it too.
    `I use it often for Eurostar, great station. Bar upstairs always good for a livener before the jaunt to Paris.
    For a devout Muslim I have a spent a lot of time and money in Searcys and the champagne bar.

    Even though it is convenient for me I was gutted when Eurostar moved to St Pancras because I loved the idea of the French having to arrive at London Waterloo.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561
    Go Socceroos!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561
    edited 6:33PM
    ..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,081
    edited 6:34PM

    Nigelb said:

    Just as well, since the RAF can't.
    Up to now we've had to rely on the US.

    History made in the skies✈️

    For the first time, a French A330 MRTT has refuelled an RAF Rivet Joint, showcasing the growing integration of Nato air power

    https://x.com/ForcesNews/status/2068012180239216706

    Given we have had NATO standards for things like this since it set ATP-56 in 1991 that we are only doing it now isn't something to crow about.

    Horray it's only taken "The Greatest Alliance the World has ever seen!" 25 years!

    Peter.
    That's not really the point.
    The RAF only had probe and drogue refuelling capacity, but several of its (US supplied) aircraft can only be refuelled in the air by boom systems.

    If the U.S. further withdraws from Europe, it's another problem for our struggling armed forces.

    It's another small example of our uncomfortable straddle between the US and Europe, on whom we are variously dependent for quite a lot of stuff.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,126

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,375
    "Labour think Andy Burnham is 'the holy grail'. They're wrong | Andrew Neil"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMrHdZ7wuU
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,634

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    He's an MP for the governing party. That's all you need in our system. It's not like the Defence Secretary has to fly the planes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,944
    edited 6:40PM

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election in the sort of seat both they and Labour need to win if they are going to win the next GE.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 23,270
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour think Andy Burnham is 'the holy grail'. They're wrong | Andrew Neil"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMrHdZ7wuU

    He might, however, get a bounce and string it out long enough to win a general election next spring and keep Labour in power until 2032...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,156
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    I wonder what difference there would have been in Conservative fortunes if Sunak had taken over directly from Johnson.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561
    edited 6:44PM
    Actually I think that photo above is SW trains. We were on the way to Germany. Nevertheless I do have a photo of him on the ICE somewhere
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,124
    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,115

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    I wonder what difference there would have been in Conservative fortunes if Sunak had taken over directly from Johnson.
    That and avoiding a Farage comeback could have led to a very different outcome in the last election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923
    IanB2 said:

    Actually I think that photo above is SW trains. Nevertheless I do have a photo of him on the ICE somewhere

    What is Mr Dog's name?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,944

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer wasn't a Ming Vase, he was an Empty Vase.

    And this shows just how pointless such a strategy is in politics.

    A lesson for the ages.

    The Ming vase strategy was an imperative so as not to scare the horses. Being a shite PM was not a great second step.
    Yep. His problem was not MV. Everybody does MV when an election is in the bag bar screw ups. It's the political equivalent of closing down the game 3/0 up with 10 mins left. That was not the SKS problem. The SKS problem was an inability (and quite a special one) to connect with the public. That's why he's going and that's why Burnham is taking over. He has shown that he can. Mayor votes plus polling and now this clinching final step, thumping the populist right in a by-election.
    The ghost of the Sheffield Rally looms large. Yeah, woow, yeah!
    But in a Lancs accent. Totally different.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 790
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    Nigel Lawson went to Oxford. Christ Church to be precise.
    I have a feeling the best Chancellor of TSE's life to date is still alive
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,488
    Foss said:

    Zelensky threatens a new Belarusian front:

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/2068005484494307834

    Zelensky:

    I am giving Lukashenko one week to withdraw the military equipment from the Ukrainian border that is being used to adjust artillery fire against the Ukrainian population.

    Otherwise, we will do it ourselves.

    The Ukrainians destroyed some of this equipment in February earlier this year.

    https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-destroys-guidance-network-for-shahed-1772206907.html

    Incidentally, the mesh system used sounds a lot like Meshtastic, something I've been vaguely interested in for a while. https://meshtastic.org/
    There are some online meshtastic node maps that you might want to look at. Last time I thought about messing with it there weren’t any other nodes with 30 miles of my location.
    Yes. Nearest node seems to be the wrong side of the big city.

    But it might be good enough for point to point communication if my wife and I aren't too far apart, and then maybe other people in the area will join in.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,010
    Toy Story missed a trick not casting Wayne Rooney as Mr Potato-head.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,634

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    The best Chancellor of your lifetime had a Scottish accent and a big clunking fist.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,488

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Was Starmer competent though? I'm not sure his record in office bears that out.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,152
    IanB2 said:

    Sky suggesting many casualties

    Eyewitness on FiveLive said train was going half to three quarter speed then a massive bang - lots of broken limbs. Lets hope its no more than injuries.
    It's a train I regularly use.

    Sheffield to London St Pancras.

    St Pancras is the most beautiful and best train station in the UK.

    It also has a Fortnum & Mason in it too.
    `I use it often for Eurostar, great station. Bar upstairs always good for a livener before the jaunt to Paris.
    Shame on Eurostar for being one of the tiny number of rail services in Europe that won’t take pets.

    By contrast, here is is sleeping on the DB ICE train


    It's ludicrous, I travel on the Italian intercity trains a lot and there's always a good dog or two to entertain everyone. Also go Milan - Paris and same. Eurostar is a great idea for a service put poorly executed by the operator.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,923

    IanB2 said:

    https://x.com/GuidoFawkes/status/2068010625272340885

    Some rumours in Labour circles that Streeting will be Chancellor and Miliband will go to MHCLG.

    What qualifications does Streeting have to be Chancellor?
    His first junior ministerial role was in the treasury, so presumably he starts with some relevant experience.

    As TSE will tell us, he’s a Cambridge man so presumably well endowed with tremendous common sense, even if he spent his student days mostly politicking and occasionally studying in the Seeley library listening to the slow dripping of rainwater into the buckets spread about its floor.

    He’s seen as on the pragmatic right of the Labour Party and therefore a very market friendly appointment.

    And he’s as good a salesperson as Labour has, which the current occupant of number eleven certainly isn’t.

    The best Chancellor of my lifetime was a Cambridge man.
    The best Chancellor of your lifetime had a Scottish accent and a big clunking fist.
    Of course, how could I forget the Chancellor who abolished boom and bust.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,126

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    I wonder what difference there would have been in Conservative fortunes if Sunak had taken over directly from Johnson.
    I suspect not much. The Tories as a party were losing the place, if they had not been Truss would have been laughed out of town, not elected. Sunak inherited a party that had not so much pressed the self destruct button as jumped up and down on it from a considerable height. It proved beyond his capabilities to overcome this. It needed someone who was capable of selling a narrative. And he couldn't.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,944
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour think Andy Burnham is 'the holy grail'. They're wrong | Andrew Neil"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTMrHdZ7wuU

    We don't. We think he's the best option to turn things around. The holy grail wasn't really perceived as the best chance to turn things around. Least that wasn't how it was presented in the accounts I've read.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,066
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    On a personal level, I quite like Sunak. He has a puppyish demeanor with a certain amount of self mocking charm that always seemed more genuine than Johnson's studied performance.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,488

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Sunak was another one who had competence but no charisma. Indeed, I would argue that he was a much better technocrat than Starmer has turned out to be.

    I have serious reservations about Burnham's capabilities and judgement but for the sake of the country we can only hope things get a little better.
    I wonder what difference there would have been in Conservative fortunes if Sunak had taken over directly from Johnson.
    Sunak would have had a bit more self-confidence if he hadn't been so far behind in the polls, and he likely wouldn't have done a whole bunch of stuff that he did when he was panicking (cancelling bits of HS2 to spend on pothole repairs, or cutting NI while borrowing £100bn pa).

    That then would have created some room for him to show us who he really was, politically speaking. No idea what he might have done with that opportunity.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,748

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    SKS has neither competence or charisma neither does he have any political nouse, any strategy, principles, convictions or any ability to understand the term broad church. He has thin skin, is happy to appoint factional colleagues even when it is known they are close friends with a paedophile. He suspends or expels people of principle and then says they are friends. Nasty piece of work complicit in Genocide has a hierarchy of racism and applies double standards for factional reason.

    And to think on here still manages to retain a few SKS fans despite being useless

    Get the KoN in number 10 now
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,867

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Starmer to weigh up future over weekend, Times told

    Sir Keir Starmer will weigh up his future over the weekend amid mounting pressure from his cabinet in the wake of Andy Burnham’s by-election victory, The Times has been told.

    The prime minister has publicly insisted that he will not “walk away” and has said he is prepared to fight a challenge from Burnham if it comes to a leadership contest.

    However, privately sources close to the prime minister said he recognises there is growing pressure from the backbenches for him to go. He is expected to take the weekend with his wife and family to consider his position before deciding whether to fight on.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/makerfield-by-election-results-2026-latest-news-rbfk8mn0n

    He’s gone
    I remember from school days someone doing the weighing of the scales when early Rome complained the scales were fixed and they were being asked for too much gold. The chieftain replied "vi victus" and put his sword on the other side of the scales. It is a lesson the Romans never forgot.

    Starmer is in a somewhat similar position. He either gives up gracefully or he's humiliated. His choice.
    It's a false choice, it's humiliation either way which fools no one.

    Only promise of another job down the line makes giving in worthwhile, it's nonsense that we say it's more 'graceful' to be kicked out informally than formally.

    Do people look back at Boris and Truss and go 'at least it was graceful'?
    A Prime Minister requires both competence and charisma. Starmer had the competence without the charisma. Boris had the charisma without the competence. Truss had neither. Hopefully Burnham will have both.
    Was Starmer competent though? I'm not sure his record in office bears that out.
    Indeed

    His problem isn’t just having difficulty connecting with the public. It’s also connecting with his cabinet colleagues, his MPs and the Labour Party members.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,561

    IanB2 said:

    Actually I think that photo above is SW trains. Nevertheless I do have a photo of him on the ICE somewhere

    What is Mr Dog's name?
    Miska (the Hungarian Pumi) at home, although other names are available, especially if he’s being a nuisance.

    Zaydar Let It Be Me, according to the Kennel Club.

    Pumiunderthetable, for his travel feed on Instagram.
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