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I’m sorry I haven’t a clue about this poll – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,181
edited June 10 in General
I’m sorry I haven’t a clue about this poll – politicalbetting.com

TPSI poll | 6/8 LVUS Senate Maine 2026?Susan Collins 43.7% (incumbent)?Graham Platner 43.1%Undecided 13.2%—When voters are informed of Graham Platner’s scandals?Graham Platner 48.2%?Susan Collins 40.1% (incumbent)Undecided 11.7%Link to poll:… pic.twitter.com/VUMaJ0tQMS

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    You're not quite that bad.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    Lionel Blair.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    I suggested yesterday that it's perhaps a promoting effect ?

    Collins is a known quantity; Platner, until quite recently, a complete unknown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,873
    edited June 10
    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,316
    US = Disney. Disne make sense.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    Nigelb said:

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
    I introduced some of my younger staff to Lionel Blair/I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    It'll be a miracle if HR don't launch an investigation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,756
    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,920

    Nigelb said:

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
    I introduced some of my younger staff to Lionel Blair/I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    It'll be a miracle if HR don't launch an investigation.
    Unfortunately Samantha has had to leave early, because she has volunteered to observe the Warsaw city council.elections.

    She said she's looking forward to an enormous poll turn out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    edited June 10
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    Does he grab them by the pussy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    'They' didn't.
    The Democratic establishment tried to run someone born in 1947, and the voters said no thanks.

    Platner is a sui generis populist, which comes with an upside and a (potentially very large) downside.

    He acknowledges past failings, and claims to be a changed man. That remains to be seen, either way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799

    Nigelb said:

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
    I introduced some of my younger staff to Lionel Blair/I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    It'll be a miracle if HR don't launch an investigation.
    I'm sure you'll find a way to satisfy them.
    TSE always pulls it off.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    edited June 10

    Nigelb said:

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
    I introduced some of my younger staff to Lionel Blair/I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    It'll be a miracle if HR don't launch an investigation.
    Unfortunately Samantha has had to leave early, because she has volunteered to observe the Warsaw city council.elections.

    She said she's looking forward to an enormous poll turn out.
    It was this one that broke my entire staff and ruined our productivity for the afternoon (especially given my love of the Bard.)

    How the tears of frustration welled up in his eyes during their Italian tour at not being allowed the use of his mouth to finish off Two Gentlemen of Verona.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,465
    Let’s look at these scandals though, this is based entirely on google’s AI…

    1) dodgy tattoo - he has claimed he didn’t know what it meant and has since had it covered

    2) allegation of abuse - he’s categorically denied this (and I’d assume from AI that it’s word against word)

    3) marital infidelity - he’s acknowledged making mistakes but that he and his wife have worked through them

    4) offensive past comments

    I can very easily see how people deem this as a witch hunt / evidence of him reforming his ways. In that context I can see why people might say “is that all” when they dig into the details
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,756

    Nigelb said:

    Lionel Blair.

    And definitely not that bad.
    I introduced some of my younger staff to Lionel Blair/I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue.

    It'll be a miracle if HR don't launch an investigation.
    Did you do the full Samantha, or did you manage to pull out first?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,797
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    He's probably going to pick up lots of MAGA votes then.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,057
    .
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,756
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Note that all of the scandal so far appears to have come from Dem sources.

    The GOP say they have loads more to come on Platner, they’re over the moon that he won the primary.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,463
    Haven't a clue what the scandal is but the poll suggests that quite a few reckon it's the reverse of scandalous. The sort of divide you'd find between people who believe opposite moralities.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,623

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Hello from Belfast where the great unwashed of Loyalism have declared an evening of rioting and house clearance.

    There are I'm sure quite a few with Republican communities who would like to do their own but the orthodoxy that Irish Republicans love the asylum seekers and welcome them with open arms is strong. Some very burly looking community workers keeping locals from gathering....

    I will lay it out and I suspect plenty a UK city is the same. We have had a lot of inward migration last 10 years from outside EU/wider Europe and its easy to stratify into its main groups:

    Indians: Often come as families, work in tech and health. Younger members of family often seen in retail. Well integrated and have set up small clusters
    West Africans: not clustered, seen all the time usually on way or going from the care homes and hospitals in which they work
    Filipinos: Brought specifically in for the NHS over recent years
    North East African. Somali, Sudanese. Disproportionately younger male, don't seem to be as much in the working population
    Middle East Arab: Some families but disproportionately younger males,

    The last two groups are the asylum seekers, the former three economic and legal migrants.

    I will give you one guess where the social interaction issues with the natives lie.

    Our very own Kristalnacht, until rain stopped play.

    Which sounds as if it disappoints you.
    I will bet you supported all the concessions to the Men Of Violence and The Community Leaders for The Peace Process.

    As I’ve pointed out before, this taught the Face Eating Leopards that threatening to eat faces, works.

    The Community Leaders were carefully taught that representations to ministers would be ignored. A few death threats in the right place and *they* get called.

    Tommy Lots Of Names formed the EDL to get the same thing. Look how he’s grown….

    Feel proud - it should be a matter of celebration that education works.
    The Peace Process has been very successful. What alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken?
    A peace process that is built on giving the gangsters whatever they want?

    You can see the success on TV.

    The decent politicians (such as the ones who got some Nobel Prizes for the actual peace) have been sidelined. It’s all about how close you can get to violence and pretend it’s not you. 71 people in one toilet….

    It’s been very successful at creating an Acceptable Level Of Violence.

    You need to understand that this success includes the riots you just saw.
    The level of violence in Northern Ireland now is much, much, much lower than it was during the Troubles.

    As I said, what alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken? You’ve complained about the Process, but you’ve not suggested a different approach.
    If all you want is to reduce the level of violence, just give the violent everything they want.

    Now you are finding that the sacrifice required is people you care about.

    Simple version - give the democratic politicians more. Give the Men Of Violence less.

    Sure they’ll be upset. But is your response to the EDL violence just to give them what they want?

    The immigrants will be out of the neighbourhoods in question within days. Once again, violence will have been given what it wants.

    So there will be more violence.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,851
    I thought you wrote on the subject without hesitation, repetition or deviation. Well done.

    (yes I know it's the wrong show but I want to shoehorn it in. Fnarr, fnarr)
  • https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,536
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    But has he made an online comment about Carol Vorderman ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,920
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    Let's hope he's not litigious too.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,797

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    Because they're worried he won't turn out to be another Fetterman (who is almost as reliable a vote for them as Collins these days).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,057

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Hello from Belfast where the great unwashed of Loyalism have declared an evening of rioting and house clearance.

    There are I'm sure quite a few with Republican communities who would like to do their own but the orthodoxy that Irish Republicans love the asylum seekers and welcome them with open arms is strong. Some very burly looking community workers keeping locals from gathering....

    I will lay it out and I suspect plenty a UK city is the same. We have had a lot of inward migration last 10 years from outside EU/wider Europe and its easy to stratify into its main groups:

    Indians: Often come as families, work in tech and health. Younger members of family often seen in retail. Well integrated and have set up small clusters
    West Africans: not clustered, seen all the time usually on way or going from the care homes and hospitals in which they work
    Filipinos: Brought specifically in for the NHS over recent years
    North East African. Somali, Sudanese. Disproportionately younger male, don't seem to be as much in the working population
    Middle East Arab: Some families but disproportionately younger males,

    The last two groups are the asylum seekers, the former three economic and legal migrants.

    I will give you one guess where the social interaction issues with the natives lie.

    Our very own Kristalnacht, until rain stopped play.

    Which sounds as if it disappoints you.
    I will bet you supported all the concessions to the Men Of Violence and The Community Leaders for The Peace Process.

    As I’ve pointed out before, this taught the Face Eating Leopards that threatening to eat faces, works.

    The Community Leaders were carefully taught that representations to ministers would be ignored. A few death threats in the right place and *they* get called.

    Tommy Lots Of Names formed the EDL to get the same thing. Look how he’s grown….

    Feel proud - it should be a matter of celebration that education works.
    The Peace Process has been very successful. What alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken?
    A peace process that is built on giving the gangsters whatever they want?

    You can see the success on TV.

    The decent politicians (such as the ones who got some Nobel Prizes for the actual peace) have been sidelined. It’s all about how close you can get to violence and pretend it’s not you. 71 people in one toilet….

    It’s been very successful at creating an Acceptable Level Of Violence.

    You need to understand that this success includes the riots you just saw.
    The level of violence in Northern Ireland now is much, much, much lower than it was during the Troubles.

    As I said, what alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken? You’ve complained about the Process, but you’ve not suggested a different approach.
    If all you want is to reduce the level of violence, just give the violent everything they want.

    Now you are finding that the sacrifice required is people you care about.

    Simple version - give the democratic politicians more. Give the Men Of Violence less.

    Sure they’ll be upset. But is your response to the EDL violence just to give them what they want?

    The immigrants will be out of the neighbourhoods in question within days. Once again, violence will have been given what it wants.

    So there will be more violence.
    No-one is suggesting giving the EDL what they want. The situation in Northern Ireland was very different to the EDL. Can you not see the differences???

    There is much, much, much less violence in Northern Ireland since the Peace Process than before. Other approaches to the Troubles that didn’t involve talking to the men of violence had not produced a resolution.

    It’s great that PB is somewhere that people can challenge the orthodoxy. If you’re going to challenge the orthodoxy, I suggest you come up with more than one half-arsed analogy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,920
    viewcode said:

    I thought you wrote on the subject without hesitation, repetition or deviation. Well done.

    (yes I know it's the wrong show but I want to shoehorn it in. Fnarr, fnarr)

    Unfortunately, if we're doing 6.30 comedies, The Unbelievable Truth (a pack of lies with a few bits of truth to spot) is much more relevant for the times we live in.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,947
    edited June 10

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.

    Allowing Jenrick to join Reform creates a whole set of very hard to answer questions because so often it comes down to Jenrick was the person responsible for that disaster
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,756
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    Because they're worried he won't turn out to be another Fetterman (who is almost as reliable a vote for them as Collins these days).
    Fetterman is one of the few sensible Democrats in Washington.

    Which is surprising given where his head was at a couple of years ago when he first entered the Senate.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,934
    eek said:

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.
    I think you've fallen victim to misinformation. He didn't have ILR.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,623

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Hello from Belfast where the great unwashed of Loyalism have declared an evening of rioting and house clearance.

    There are I'm sure quite a few with Republican communities who would like to do their own but the orthodoxy that Irish Republicans love the asylum seekers and welcome them with open arms is strong. Some very burly looking community workers keeping locals from gathering....

    I will lay it out and I suspect plenty a UK city is the same. We have had a lot of inward migration last 10 years from outside EU/wider Europe and its easy to stratify into its main groups:

    Indians: Often come as families, work in tech and health. Younger members of family often seen in retail. Well integrated and have set up small clusters
    West Africans: not clustered, seen all the time usually on way or going from the care homes and hospitals in which they work
    Filipinos: Brought specifically in for the NHS over recent years
    North East African. Somali, Sudanese. Disproportionately younger male, don't seem to be as much in the working population
    Middle East Arab: Some families but disproportionately younger males,

    The last two groups are the asylum seekers, the former three economic and legal migrants.

    I will give you one guess where the social interaction issues with the natives lie.

    Our very own Kristalnacht, until rain stopped play.

    Which sounds as if it disappoints you.
    I will bet you supported all the concessions to the Men Of Violence and The Community Leaders for The Peace Process.

    As I’ve pointed out before, this taught the Face Eating Leopards that threatening to eat faces, works.

    The Community Leaders were carefully taught that representations to ministers would be ignored. A few death threats in the right place and *they* get called.

    Tommy Lots Of Names formed the EDL to get the same thing. Look how he’s grown….

    Feel proud - it should be a matter of celebration that education works.
    The Peace Process has been very successful. What alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken?
    A peace process that is built on giving the gangsters whatever they want?

    You can see the success on TV.

    The decent politicians (such as the ones who got some Nobel Prizes for the actual peace) have been sidelined. It’s all about how close you can get to violence and pretend it’s not you. 71 people in one toilet….

    It’s been very successful at creating an Acceptable Level Of Violence.

    You need to understand that this success includes the riots you just saw.
    The level of violence in Northern Ireland now is much, much, much lower than it was during the Troubles.

    As I said, what alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken? You’ve complained about the Process, but you’ve not suggested a different approach.
    If all you want is to reduce the level of violence, just give the violent everything they want.

    Now you are finding that the sacrifice required is people you care about.

    Simple version - give the democratic politicians more. Give the Men Of Violence less.

    Sure they’ll be upset. But is your response to the EDL violence just to give them what they want?

    The immigrants will be out of the neighbourhoods in question within days. Once again, violence will have been given what it wants.

    So there will be more violence.
    No-one is suggesting giving the EDL what they want. The situation in Northern Ireland was very different to the EDL. Can you not see the differences???

    There is much, much, much less violence in Northern Ireland since the Peace Process than before. Other approaches to the Troubles that didn’t involve talking to the men of violence had not produced a resolution.

    It’s great that PB is somewhere that people can challenge the orthodoxy. If you’re going to challenge the orthodoxy, I suggest you come up with more than one half-arsed analogy.
    The Peace Process became giving worse than the EDL whatever they wanted.

    It is not “half arsed” to suggest that protecting the civic institutions at the expense of some terrorists getting explody is a worthwhile trade.

    If you want peace at any price, then you want immigrants burnt out of their homes. Own it. Love it. You made it. You.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    AnneJGP said:

    Haven't a clue what the scandal is but the poll suggests that quite a few reckon it's the reverse of scandalous. The sort of divide you'd find between people who believe opposite moralities.

    That's possible too.
    The truth is that he's completely unvetted, and no one really knows whether it's just smoke, or a blazing dumpster.

    It's a big risk as far as the Democrats are concerned, but that's what the voters chose.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,358

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,920
    eek said:

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.

    Allowing Jenrick to join Reform creates a whole set of very hard to answer questions because so often it comes down to Jenrick was the person responsible for that disaster
    Sadly, that only matters if it matters.

    So far, it just doesn't matter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    edited June 10
    Taz said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
    Obviously, so are the electorate ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    Because they're worried he won't turn out to be another Fetterman (who is almost as reliable a vote for them as Collins these days).
    Fetterman is one of the few sensible Democrats in Washington.

    Which is surprising given where his head was at a couple of years ago when he first entered the Senate.
    You mean he votes for Trump a lot ?

    On that score, here's Platner:
    ..As you can all probably tell, I got a lot of criticisms about the way this government functions. But in order for us to make it functional, we’re gonna have to do stuff,” Platner said. “And you can’t just go down there and be John Fetterman and ... just sort of be an a**hole.”..
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,142
    edited June 10
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    Is "actual Nazi" a splinter group, like Real IRA? For those who think the Nazis have gone soft?

    Does this mean the Rep candidate is the sane one here? Who do MAGA-types vote for then? And who does Trump endorse?

    ETA: Maybe that explains the polling. Initial split on party lines, but when told he's a bad'un the more MAGA-intense Reps start to break for the Dem?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,173

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Hello from Belfast where the great unwashed of Loyalism have declared an evening of rioting and house clearance.

    There are I'm sure quite a few with Republican communities who would like to do their own but the orthodoxy that Irish Republicans love the asylum seekers and welcome them with open arms is strong. Some very burly looking community workers keeping locals from gathering....

    I will lay it out and I suspect plenty a UK city is the same. We have had a lot of inward migration last 10 years from outside EU/wider Europe and its easy to stratify into its main groups:

    Indians: Often come as families, work in tech and health. Younger members of family often seen in retail. Well integrated and have set up small clusters
    West Africans: not clustered, seen all the time usually on way or going from the care homes and hospitals in which they work
    Filipinos: Brought specifically in for the NHS over recent years
    North East African. Somali, Sudanese. Disproportionately younger male, don't seem to be as much in the working population
    Middle East Arab: Some families but disproportionately younger males,

    The last two groups are the asylum seekers, the former three economic and legal migrants.

    I will give you one guess where the social interaction issues with the natives lie.

    Our very own Kristalnacht, until rain stopped play.

    Which sounds as if it disappoints you.
    I will bet you supported all the concessions to the Men Of Violence and The Community Leaders for The Peace Process.

    As I’ve pointed out before, this taught the Face Eating Leopards that threatening to eat faces, works.

    The Community Leaders were carefully taught that representations to ministers would be ignored. A few death threats in the right place and *they* get called.

    Tommy Lots Of Names formed the EDL to get the same thing. Look how he’s grown….

    Feel proud - it should be a matter of celebration that education works.
    The Peace Process has been very successful. What alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken?
    A peace process that is built on giving the gangsters whatever they want?

    You can see the success on TV.

    The decent politicians (such as the ones who got some Nobel Prizes for the actual peace) have been sidelined. It’s all about how close you can get to violence and pretend it’s not you. 71 people in one toilet….

    It’s been very successful at creating an Acceptable Level Of Violence.

    You need to understand that this success includes the riots you just saw.
    The level of violence in Northern Ireland now is much, much, much lower than it was during the Troubles.

    As I said, what alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken? You’ve complained about the Process, but you’ve not suggested a different approach.
    If all you want is to reduce the level of violence, just give the violent everything they want.

    Now you are finding that the sacrifice required is people you care about.

    Simple version - give the democratic politicians more. Give the Men Of Violence less.

    Sure they’ll be upset. But is your response to the EDL violence just to give them what they want?

    The immigrants will be out of the neighbourhoods in question within days. Once again, violence will have been given what it wants.

    So there will be more violence.
    No-one is suggesting giving the EDL what they want. The situation in Northern Ireland was very different to the EDL. Can you not see the differences???

    There is much, much, much less violence in Northern Ireland since the Peace Process than before. Other approaches to the Troubles that didn’t involve talking to the men of violence had not produced a resolution.

    It’s great that PB is somewhere that people can challenge the orthodoxy. If you’re going to challenge the orthodoxy, I suggest you come up with more than one half-arsed analogy.
    The Peace Process became giving worse than the EDL whatever they wanted.

    It is not “half arsed” to suggest that protecting the civic institutions at the expense of some terrorists getting explody is a worthwhile trade.

    If you want peace at any price, then you want immigrants burnt out of their homes. Own it. Love it. You made it. You.
    At what point in the last 50 years did the men of violence not run Northern Ireland?

    It's two main criminal gangs with smaller splinter groups who've run it in that time in symbiosis, with sectarianism as an excuse for their violent acts, there was a moderate peace movement from which came the Good Friday agreement and less violence, since when the electorate have largely abandoned the moderate parties. It seems they have opted for the extremists but less violence, blame the electorate.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,358

    Taz said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
    Let me introduce you to the concept of a single data point.

    Reform are clearly well below their peak when it comes average polling.


    And now inching back up. For the time being they’ve arrested it.

    Of course people predicting decline once they’ve started to slip in the polls is wisdom after the event.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,114
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    Presumably mentioning him specifically increases his vote (a known phenomenon) even of the mention is unwelcome (one would have thought!).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,983
    edited June 10
    The ironic thing in this Maine Senate race is Platner looks more like a Trumpian as does his social media history. Whereas Collins voted to convict Trump at his 2021 impeachment and is the ultimate RINO, so maybe Platner's scandals make some Trump voters abandon Collins for him
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,313
    My interpretation of the Maine poll is that it shows a partisan rally around the flag effect.

    There is no sense of a common accepted reality in the US anymore, so the default assumption is that a scandal is fake news from the other side to undermine one of the good guys on your side. A really big scandal - such as Cuomo - will come to be accepted when it is reported by trusted sources on your own side of the partisan divide.

    So the response is, I haven't heard about this scandal, it must be faked by the Trumpers, I should support this guy from these fake attacks.

    It's really not a healthy place for a democracy.

    Given the complete lack of polling reaction to Farage's secret £5m crypto gift, you can see that Britain is well on the road to heading in the same direction.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    Presumably mentioning him specifically increases his vote (a known phenomenon) even of the mention is unwelcome (one would have thought!).
    I agree, Nick. That's more or less what I suggested, too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,983

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,878
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
    Let me introduce you to the concept of a single data point.

    Reform are clearly well below their peak when it comes average polling.


    And now inching back up. For the time being they’ve arrested it.

    Of course people predicting decline once they’ve started to slip in the polls is wisdom after the event.
    The line to pay attention to is the Green one. Arguably, they're the most important party in the next election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    edited June 10

    eek said:

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.
    I think you've fallen victim to misinformation. He didn't have ILR.
    5 years.
    ..Police have confirmed the suspect crossed the Irish border in February 2023 having flown to Dublin from Paris. He then claimed asylum upon arrival and in September 2023 was granted leave to remain in the UK until 2028...

    Still Jenrick, though ?
  • Reform can be up temporarily but their long term goal to win the next general election seems to be slipping away slowly.

    Assuming Burnham doesn’t completely cock it up in the first month - and all he has to do is not be Keir Starmer - Labour will get some kind of uplift and as soon as they start looking like winners again the Green vote will collapse.

    Not unreasonable in my view to see that they poll 30% again
  • HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    Nailed on surely.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,313
    Sandpit said:

    Today’s good news about Russia being on fire starts with the military electronics plant in Cheboksary, which had a visit early this morning from a pair of flying Flamingos. They used to make guidance systems for rockets and missiles.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/2064569145245503919

    We also have an oil refinery in Samara, smoking a little more than usual today.

    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/2064570360972861800

    Note that this is the second strike on the Progress electronics plant in Cheboksary in 48 hours, and it has been targeted before. Generally speaking these targets need to be hit repeatedly to fully take them out of action, and Ukraine is starting to do those sort of sustained attacks, as we saw in Tuapse.

    Another oil pumping station (in Vladimir region) is on fire too, and something in Sevastopol is producing quantities of smoke.

    There have been lots of attacks recently on oil pumping stations on the pipelines to Moscow and to the Black Sea oil export terminals.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,920
    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,302
    edited June 10
    eek said:

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.

    Allowing Jenrick to join Reform creates a whole set of very hard to answer questions because so often it comes down to Jenrick was the person responsible for that disaster
    Jenrick has pulled off a remarkable double-whammy. Painted over children’s cartoons in an asylum centre, thereby putting off all decent Conservatives, and imported an eye-gouging maniac, thereby putting off… well pretty much everyone tbh.

    I can’t really see a path for him going forward.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,864
    eek said:

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064437272280187284

    I didn’t meet anyone with a good word to say about Starmer (though a lot of people found it hard to articulate exactly why) but also a lot of doubts raised about Farage. Lowe was described more often as an anti-establishment figure. Again I found this surprising!

    As Pb said at the time, Farage taking a load of Tories will I think come to be seen as a major misstep.

    Look at Northern Ireland on Monday and think about who was in charge of immigration when the arrested Sudanese was given indefinite leave to remain.

    Allowing Jenrick to join Reform creates a whole set of very hard to answer questions because so often it comes down to Jenrick was the person responsible for that disaster
    5 years leave, NOT ILR
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,864
    edited June 10

    Lionel Blair.

    That was Give Us A Clue.

    TV programme.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,114

    My interpretation of the Maine poll is that it shows a partisan rally around the flag effect.

    There is no sense of a common accepted reality in the US anymore, so the default assumption is that a scandal is fake news from the other side to undermine one of the good guys on your side. A really big scandal - such as Cuomo - will come to be accepted when it is reported by trusted sources on your own side of the partisan divide.

    So the response is, I haven't heard about this scandal, it must be faked by the Trumpers, I should support this guy from these fake attacks.

    It's really not a healthy place for a democracy.

    Given the complete lack of polling reaction to Farage's secret £5m crypto gift, you can see that Britain is well on the road to heading in the same direction.

    My impression is that huge sums of money are floating about, so even I don't get especially worked up about Farage getting £5m, though of course the rules on declarations need to be followed. For a polling reaction it needs to be felt to affect people directly. But I agree that Britain is heading in the same general direction, in the absence of anyone campaigning for positive values. It's really why I'm supporting Burnham, as he generally seems more willing to offer a positive perspective.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,983

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    Net immigration is falling

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,920

    Reform can be up temporarily but their long term goal to win the next general election seems to be slipping away slowly.

    Assuming Burnham doesn’t completely cock it up in the first month - and all he has to do is not be Keir Starmer - Labour will get some kind of uplift and as soon as they start looking like winners again the Green vote will collapse.

    Not unreasonable in my view to see that they poll 30% again

    A Reform scandal is ignored by the media. Take the Farage 5 million. No other party gets a gimme on lies and corruption. This needs to change or NFICIPM.
  • https://x.com/luketryl/status/2064614221120209409

    But in a further sign of the different relationship between leader ratings and voting intention in multi party politics Farage’s personal net approval ratings drop to their lowest since the General Election on -20. Starmer is on -47, Polanski -25, Davey -10 and Badenoch - 8

    Bye bye Farage
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799

    Lionel Blair.

    That was Give Us A Clue.

    TV programme.
    Which was the basis for the running gag on ISIHAC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,983

    Reform can be up temporarily but their long term goal to win the next general election seems to be slipping away slowly.

    Assuming Burnham doesn’t completely cock it up in the first month - and all he has to do is not be Keir Starmer - Labour will get some kind of uplift and as soon as they start looking like winners again the Green vote will collapse.

    Not unreasonable in my view to see that they poll 30% again

    It looks like most of any Burnham bounce would come from squeezing the Greens and to a lesser extent the LDs rather than Reform. Labour will hope a strong Restore performance in Makerfield will start to squeeze the Reform vote including those who think Farage isn't enough of a deporter and white nationalist
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,302
    edited June 10

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    I don’t think it will stop being Reform friendly. In a country of 70 million people, and literally hundreds of thousands of impoverished, young, single men from the Boriswave, there are going to be an endless succession of sexual assaults, violence, police scandals and so on.

    They won’t trouble the overall statistics but you don’t need more than one a week for the narrative to maintain or gain momentum. Labour have done a decent job on hotels and overall immigration but this is now baked in.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,455

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2064614221120209409

    But in a further sign of the different relationship between leader ratings and voting intention in multi party politics Farage’s personal net approval ratings drop to their lowest since the General Election on -20. Starmer is on -47, Polanski -25, Davey -10 and Badenoch - 8

    Bye bye Farage

    I hope you're correct. But, sadly, I rather doubt it.

    Morning Greetings everyone!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    Steyer seems a decent bloke for a billionaire.

    https://x.com/TomSteyer/status/2064502978325651884
    ...I have always been an optimist, and today, I remain an optimist. Nothing this campaign fought for is far off. These dreams we dreamt together are not too big. Californians deserve a life they can afford, and they deserve for it to be in California. My commitment to this fight didn’t start last November, and it doesn’t end today. Because the work of winning a better, fairer California is not the work of a campaign. It is the work of my life.
    For now, we must stay focused. Donald Trump is the embodiment of the corporations’ craven, soulless, profit-first model of politics, and it is absolutely essential that his handpicked candidate does not hold the keys to California. It would be a travesty for Steve Hilton to win the governorship, and Californians must unite behind Xavier Becerra to ensure he does not.
    To my supporters: Thank you for everything. When I promised to fight for you, that was not a campaign promise. It was just a promise. And I am a man of my word. I’m on your team forever. I wasn’t born a billionaire, I won’t die a billionaire, and I’ll spend the rest of my life working alongside you to dismantle a system that only benefits billionaires.
    Today, my message to you is simple: Pay attention. Know what you deserve, and know who is on your side. Understand who the villains are, and say their names out loud. Continue to demand more from your leaders and your government, until they give you the California – and the country – you know you deserve. I will be with you all the way.
    With gratitude,
    Tom
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,712
    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,623
    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    Yokes said:

    Hello from Belfast where the great unwashed of Loyalism have declared an evening of rioting and house clearance.

    There are I'm sure quite a few with Republican communities who would like to do their own but the orthodoxy that Irish Republicans love the asylum seekers and welcome them with open arms is strong. Some very burly looking community workers keeping locals from gathering....

    I will lay it out and I suspect plenty a UK city is the same. We have had a lot of inward migration last 10 years from outside EU/wider Europe and its easy to stratify into its main groups:

    Indians: Often come as families, work in tech and health. Younger members of family often seen in retail. Well integrated and have set up small clusters
    West Africans: not clustered, seen all the time usually on way or going from the care homes and hospitals in which they work
    Filipinos: Brought specifically in for the NHS over recent years
    North East African. Somali, Sudanese. Disproportionately younger male, don't seem to be as much in the working population
    Middle East Arab: Some families but disproportionately younger males,

    The last two groups are the asylum seekers, the former three economic and legal migrants.

    I will give you one guess where the social interaction issues with the natives lie.

    Our very own Kristalnacht, until rain stopped play.

    Which sounds as if it disappoints you.
    I will bet you supported all the concessions to the Men Of Violence and The Community Leaders for The Peace Process.

    As I’ve pointed out before, this taught the Face Eating Leopards that threatening to eat faces, works.

    The Community Leaders were carefully taught that representations to ministers would be ignored. A few death threats in the right place and *they* get called.

    Tommy Lots Of Names formed the EDL to get the same thing. Look how he’s grown….

    Feel proud - it should be a matter of celebration that education works.
    The Peace Process has been very successful. What alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken?
    A peace process that is built on giving the gangsters whatever they want?

    You can see the success on TV.

    The decent politicians (such as the ones who got some Nobel Prizes for the actual peace) have been sidelined. It’s all about how close you can get to violence and pretend it’s not you. 71 people in one toilet….

    It’s been very successful at creating an Acceptable Level Of Violence.

    You need to understand that this success includes the riots you just saw.
    The level of violence in Northern Ireland now is much, much, much lower than it was during the Troubles.

    As I said, what alternative approach are you suggesting should’ve been taken? You’ve complained about the Process, but you’ve not suggested a different approach.
    If all you want is to reduce the level of violence, just give the violent everything they want.

    Now you are finding that the sacrifice required is people you care about.

    Simple version - give the democratic politicians more. Give the Men Of Violence less.

    Sure they’ll be upset. But is your response to the EDL violence just to give them what they want?

    The immigrants will be out of the neighbourhoods in question within days. Once again, violence will have been given what it wants.

    So there will be more violence.
    No-one is suggesting giving the EDL what they want. The situation in Northern Ireland was very different to the EDL. Can you not see the differences???

    There is much, much, much less violence in Northern Ireland since the Peace Process than before. Other approaches to the Troubles that didn’t involve talking to the men of violence had not produced a resolution.

    It’s great that PB is somewhere that people can challenge the orthodoxy. If you’re going to challenge the orthodoxy, I suggest you come up with more than one half-arsed analogy.
    The Peace Process became giving worse than the EDL whatever they wanted.

    It is not “half arsed” to suggest that protecting the civic institutions at the expense of some terrorists getting explody is a worthwhile trade.

    If you want peace at any price, then you want immigrants burnt out of their homes. Own it. Love it. You made it. You.
    At what point in the last 50 years did the men of violence not run Northern Ireland?

    It's two main criminal gangs with smaller splinter groups who've run it in that time in symbiosis, with sectarianism as an excuse for their violent acts, there was a moderate peace movement from which came the Good Friday agreement and less violence, since when the electorate have largely abandoned the moderate parties. It seems they have opted for the extremists but less violence, blame the electorate.
    When the War Process was ongoing, the democratic politicians were listened to.

    Murders were investigated. So were bank robberies.

    As the Peace Process progressed, the Men Of Peace were discarded by London & Dublin. Trimble and Hume were expected to obey, to sacrifice.

    So this taught the electorate that the Men Of Peace were the Weak Horse. They backed the people who could deliver change for them. Empower them.

    That was the system that was built.

    Now *you* own it. You, personally. You.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,864

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Labour on the slide!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,302
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    I don’t think it will stop being Reform friendly. In a country of 70 million people, and literally hundreds of thousands of impoverished, young, single men from the Boriswave, there are going to be an endless succession of sexual assaults, violence, police scandals and so on.

    They won’t trouble the overall statistics but you don’t need more than one a week for the narrative to maintain or gain momentum. Labour have done a decent job on hotels and overall immigration but this is now baked in.
    To be accurate, I don’t think the Boriswave was primarily young men (?). I think Small Boats is a separate issue but still probably accounts for hundreds of thousands cumulatively.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,358

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/2064614221120209409

    But in a further sign of the different relationship between leader ratings and voting intention in multi party politics Farage’s personal net approval ratings drop to their lowest since the General Election on -20. Starmer is on -47, Polanski -25, Davey -10 and Badenoch - 8

    Bye bye Farage

    I hope you're correct. But, sadly, I rather doubt it.

    Morning Greetings everyone!
    He may be in jail. He’s been in a fight with Andrew Bailey according to twitter
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,656
    edited June 10

    Lionel Blair.

    That was Give Us A Clue.

    TV programme.
    Oh Sunil, a little knowledge is very dangerous when it comes to you.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,797
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    I was thinking more of the MAGA base. Would any of them vote Dem if the Dem candidate is demonstrably more racist and misogynist than the GOP one? I bet they wouldn't. Badge would trump values.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,920
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    Net immigration is falling

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o
    Yes but as Nigel has pointed out it is the wrong kind of net immigration. And anyway the voters think under Labour net immigration has gone through the roof.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/21/falling-migration-is-still-a-winning-issue-for-nigel-farage/
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,358
    tlg86 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
    Let me introduce you to the concept of a single data point.

    Reform are clearly well below their peak when it comes average polling.


    And now inching back up. For the time being they’ve arrested it.

    Of course people predicting decline once they’ve started to slip in the polls is wisdom after the event.
    The line to pay attention to is the Green one. Arguably, they're the most important party in the next election.
    Indeed they are. Falling back too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    On the "actual Nazi" thing, that's really not clearcut.

    Reminder that nobody has to speculate on whether Graham Platner is a Nazi from a muddy tattoo he got to look like a badass when he was a 22 year old Marine.

    We have years of his anonymous Reddit posts - like this one - before he ever got into politics. They are consistently anti-fascist and anti-Nazi.

    In fact the original Republican attack line on him was that he was excessively Antifa. It was only after that didn't work that they switched to the "tattoo nazi" line.

    https://x.com/MarcusMStanley/status/2064344945327063171

    For anyone who can be bothered (not me):

    Read our full archive of Graham Platner’s deleted Reddit comments
    https://themainemonitor.org/platner-reddit-comments/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,623
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    Why would they stop it?

    The Peace Process is the ultimate good. Surely, if a few murders, bank robberies, drug and extortion empires are the price for Peace, what’s a few people burnt out of their homes?

    What will happen next is that the immigrants will be rehoused elsewhere, within days.

    Another victory for The Peace Process.

    Bet Tommy is drooling.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,708

    Taz said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    This can’t be true. The PB brains trust has said Reform are in a state of decline.
    Let me introduce you to the concept of a single data point.

    Reform are clearly well below their peak when it comes average polling.


    But those 3 top line parties plus Restore by all want to send you and Sunil "home" so you will be forced to vote LD or Green. Or convince them home is Yorkshire/Essex

    Farage, Mahmood, Badenoch are vile. Lets hope the KoN sacks Mahmood and defeats Farage and Badenoch
  • What can the UK do to grow at 2-3% annually again?

    The Tories weren’t able to achieve it and seemingly neither are Labour.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 584

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    Net immigration is falling

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o
    Yes but as Nigel has pointed out it is the wrong kind of net immigration. And anyway the voters think under Labour net immigration has gone through the roof.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/21/falling-migration-is-still-a-winning-issue-for-nigel-farage/
    I think the voters are very aware that many Labour MPs are very much in the pro immigration camp, anti welfare cuts of any kind, etc etc. Perception is all. I mean for the Tories Kemi has grown into the role but still feels the weight of voter scepticism about the Tories. The PB collective wisdom is far to the left on the big issues. Finally, supporters of Reform see no big problem with Farage and his lifestyle - his big advantage is the lo ack of hypocrisy.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,343
    edited June 10
    The Dems messed up Maine by putting forward the current governor . They’ve now ended up with Platner who has a lot of baggage.

    He is though a very good speaker and his backstory seems to resonate . The GOP really should STFU up with their outrage given they are happy to fellate Trump .

    This doesn’t excuse Platners past behaviour but sadly the choice is another term for Collins and her faux concern over the destruction of US democracy or voting for Platner .

    The stakes are high as Maine was seen as crucial if the Dems had any chance of winning the senate and with the possibility of a seat becoming vacant in SCOTUS I’m afraid some of the Dems need to also STFU and stop clutching their pearls .

    Get behind Platner and stop helping the GOP.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,797

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    Why would they stop it?

    The Peace Process is the ultimate good. Surely, if a few murders, bank robberies, drug and extortion empires are the price for Peace, what’s a few people burnt out of their homes?

    What will happen next is that the immigrants will be rehoused elsewhere, within days.

    Another victory for The Peace Process.

    Bet Tommy is drooling.
    Yes, Northern Ireland would be so much better equipped for the challenge of asylum policy amidst far right intimidation if the Troubles were still raging.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,536

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    More In Common

    Reform extend their voting intention lead to 10pts this week, with Labour and the Tories tied for second place. 

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+1)
    🌹 LAB 20% (-2)
    🌳 CON 20% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (+1)
    ❓OTH 3% (+1)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    N = 2,087 | Fieldwork 5-9/6 | Changes w/ 1/6

    Looks like Labour will need that Burnham bounce, assuming he wins Makerfield and becomes their leader
    The news has all been very Reform friendly over the last week. Harry Nowak, Northern Ireland (a bit late, I guess) and terrible immigration figures of net 100,000 p a if immigration is your thang.
    Net immigration is falling

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o
    In real world terms the number of immigrants in the UK is still increasing.

    Until the number of immigrants in the UK starts to decrease (which requires negative net migration) then this will continue to be an electoral problem for any government.

    In particular until the number of the 'wrong type' of immigrants starts to decrease this will continue to be an electoral problem for the government.
    It would be interesting to see the flows of particular types of immigrants.

    Ukrainians, Hong Kongers, Nigerian Christians, MENA asylum seekers etc.

    Claiming to have sorted out immigration because there are no longer Ukrainians and Hong Kongers moving here is not going to impress voters.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 584

    What can the UK do to grow at 2-3% annually again?

    The Tories weren’t able to achieve it and seemingly neither are Labour.

    Less tax on business and employment. Cuts in welfare. Let the market do it's job.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,799
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    I was thinking more of the MAGA base. Would any of them vote Dem if the Dem candidate is demonstrably more racist and misogynist than the GOP one? I bet they wouldn't. Badge would trump values.
    Maine isn't really a MAGA state.
    In the 2024 congressional elections it voted 54.70% to 42.75% for the Democrats.

    Collins has very successfully cosplayed as an independent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,623
    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    Why would they stop it?

    The Peace Process is the ultimate good. Surely, if a few murders, bank robberies, drug and extortion empires are the price for Peace, what’s a few people burnt out of their homes?

    What will happen next is that the immigrants will be rehoused elsewhere, within days.

    Another victory for The Peace Process.

    Bet Tommy is drooling.
    Yes, Northern Ireland would be so much better equipped for the challenge of asylum policy amidst far right intimidation if the Troubles were still raging.
    Handing the place over to the Tommy Robinsons was great for you, probably.

    Not so great for people who don’t think that gangsters should be running the streets.

    During the Troubles the army would have been out last night.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,650
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    On the "actual Nazi" thing, that's really not clearcut.

    Reminder that nobody has to speculate on whether Graham Platner is a Nazi from a muddy tattoo he got to look like a badass when he was a 22 year old Marine.

    We have years of his anonymous Reddit posts - like this one - before he ever got into politics. They are consistently anti-fascist and anti-Nazi.

    In fact the original Republican attack line on him was that he was excessively Antifa. It was only after that didn't work that they switched to the "tattoo nazi" line.

    https://x.com/MarcusMStanley/status/2064344945327063171

    For anyone who can be bothered (not me):

    Read our full archive of Graham Platner’s deleted Reddit comments
    https://themainemonitor.org/platner-reddit-comments/
    Bro did three tours in the 'Raq (including Ramadi and Fallujah) in The Thundering Third as a machine gunner so he has SEEN SOME SHIT. Definitely not a recipe for considered judgement and rectitude in high office.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,463
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    If I may say so, your last paragraph doesn't really fit with the first one. A decapitation attempt (which you rightly describe as heinous) cannot be categorised as a slight thing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,901
    AnneJGP said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    If I may say so, your last paragraph doesn't really fit with the first one. A decapitation attempt (which you rightly describe as heinous) cannot be categorised as a slight thing.
    And speedily dealt with by the police, with the culprit in custody.

    So why the pogrom?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,797
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    I was thinking more of the MAGA base. Would any of them vote Dem if the Dem candidate is demonstrably more racist and misogynist than the GOP one? I bet they wouldn't. Badge would trump values.
    Maine isn't really a MAGA state.
    In the 2024 congressional elections it voted 54.70% to 42.75% for the Democrats.

    Collins has very successfully cosplayed as an independent.
    Which could save her in November. Still, the Dems don't need Maine to take the Senate (although it's harder if they don't).
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,358
    Foxy said:

    AnneJGP said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    If I may say so, your last paragraph doesn't really fit with the first one. A decapitation attempt (which you rightly describe as heinous) cannot be categorised as a slight thing.
    And speedily dealt with by the police, with the culprit in custody.

    So why the pogrom?
    ‘Pogrom’ 🙄
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,878
    edited June 10

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    Why would they stop it?

    The Peace Process is the ultimate good. Surely, if a few murders, bank robberies, drug and extortion empires are the price for Peace, what’s a few people burnt out of their homes?

    What will happen next is that the immigrants will be rehoused elsewhere, within days.

    Another victory for The Peace Process.

    Bet Tommy is drooling.
    What Stodge seems to ignore is that (very) bad behaviour is rewarded. It's worth noting that the knuckledraggers who kicked off over Southport were prosecuted because the authorities weren't scared of them.

    It's a different matter in Belfast. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a bit like "if you owe the bank £100 you're in trouble, owe them £100m and the bank is in trouble." The authorities won't do anything in Belfast because of the potential for escalation.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,536
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    How do they find these candidates?

    I linked a piece the other day speculating people want more 'human' candidates, but it comes with risks. Even if bizarrely this poll at least says the scandal helps.

    It’s not just that they found Platner, it’s that a huge amount of the Dem Establishment has been getting behind him despite all the scandals.

    He’s an actual Nazi, with a severe women problem, who went back to Afghanistan as a privateer because he “enjoys killing people”.
    That's the MAGA line, certainly.
    It might be right and it might be wrong. We'll find out soon enough.
    Why would MAGA object to an actual Nazi with a severe women problem?
    I suppose it's down to the hyper partisanship in US politics. You don't vote for somebody with the other badge on even if they absolutely share your values.
    Then why has Maine repeatedly re-elected Collins ?
    And why did the Democratic primary voters utterly reject their popular former governor ?

    That explanation doesn't wash.
    I was thinking more of the MAGA base. Would any of them vote Dem if the Dem candidate is demonstrably more racist and misogynist than the GOP one? I bet they wouldn't. Badge would trump values.
    Maine isn't really a MAGA state.
    In the 2024 congressional elections it voted 54.70% to 42.75% for the Democrats.

    Collins has very successfully cosplayed as an independent.
    Collins is a moderate Republican, which is what she has always claimed to be, and has continually had one of the highest bipartisan ratings in the US senate:

    https://www.thelugarcenter.org/ourwork-Bipartisan-Index.html

    Now if you want to see someone cosplaying as an independent then there is the other Maine senator Angus King.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,920
    A pair of heroes meet up with each other in Moscow to plan the next move in their march to freedom.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/21/falling-migration-is-still-a-winning-issue-for-nigel-farage/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,302
    Foxy said:

    AnneJGP said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, we need to condemn without reservation the mob violence in Belfast last night. It's a strange world where we think two wrongs make a right and whatever happened with the attack which by the way was heinous and, if proven, the perpetrator needs to feel the full weight of the law, doesn't in any way justify or condone forcing people out of their homes and burning said properties.

    We know Northern Ireland has a history of "ethnic cleansing" in this manner and it's something with which the authorities need to take control and stop.

    A "long hot summer" then it seems with anyone looking at anyone else in a funny way liable to bring the mobs out on the streets for a bit of impromptu street entertainment. That's the way it is now, apparently? People get angry at the slightest thing radicalised no doubt by the misinformation and disinformation on X and elsewhere and out they come thinking somehow, well, what are they thinking?

    If I may say so, your last paragraph doesn't really fit with the first one. A decapitation attempt (which you rightly describe as heinous) cannot be categorised as a slight thing.
    And speedily dealt with by the police, with the culprit in custody.

    So why the pogrom?
    Ah come on. A swift arrest is not going to give this man his eyes back.

    Obviously the violence is disgraceful (and obviously terrorism, if we’re being consistent with PA), but there is a serious underlying issue here where we our system is regularly importing violent maniacs and rapists, and then is apparent unable to deport them.
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