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  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955

    Andy_JS said:

    Nice long sentences for those who protested at Henry Nowak demonstrations.

    "Two men have been jailed for violent disorder at a protest in Southampton following the murder of Henry Nowak.

    Connor Bishop, 24, was sentenced to two years and eight months and Leon O'Leary, 41, was jailed for three years and one month. Both pleaded guilty to violent disorder at a previous hearing.

    They are the first people to be sentenced after violence on 2 June saw 12 police officers and a police dog injured as missiles including wheelie bins and chairs were thrown."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c982y5n0nlno

    Leon, who was protesting about a murder by knifing:

    "admitted resisting a police officer and possession of an offensive weapon - a samurai sword in his bedroom - when officers came to arrest him in the early hours of 7 June. The court heard he adopted a "fighting stance" at the top of the stairs and threatened officers who had to use pava spray to subdue him."

    No irony here I'm sure....lucky to only get 3 years imo.
    Leon a hypocritical, racist trouble-maker?

    Say it isn't so.
    Bit off as he isn’t around to bite back. I don’t think he’s racist, just enjoys causing controversy.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,297
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nice long sentences for those who protested at Henry Nowak demonstrations.

    "Two men have been jailed for violent disorder at a protest in Southampton following the murder of Henry Nowak.

    Connor Bishop, 24, was sentenced to two years and eight months and Leon O'Leary, 41, was jailed for three years and one month. Both pleaded guilty to violent disorder at a previous hearing.

    They are the first people to be sentenced after violence on 2 June saw 12 police officers and a police dog injured as missiles including wheelie bins and chairs were thrown."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c982y5n0nlno

    Leon, who was protesting about a murder by knifing:

    "admitted resisting a police officer and possession of an offensive weapon - a samurai sword in his bedroom - when officers came to arrest him in the early hours of 7 June. The court heard he adopted a "fighting stance" at the top of the stairs and threatened officers who had to use pava spray to subdue him."

    No irony here I'm sure....lucky to only get 3 years imo.
    Leon a hypocritical, racist trouble-maker?

    Say it isn't so.
    Bit off as he isn’t around to bite back. I don’t think he’s racist, just enjoys causing controversy.
    Bit rich from a genocidal Zionist.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,297
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nice long sentences for those who protested at Henry Nowak demonstrations.

    "Two men have been jailed for violent disorder at a protest in Southampton following the murder of Henry Nowak.

    Connor Bishop, 24, was sentenced to two years and eight months and Leon O'Leary, 41, was jailed for three years and one month. Both pleaded guilty to violent disorder at a previous hearing.

    They are the first people to be sentenced after violence on 2 June saw 12 police officers and a police dog injured as missiles including wheelie bins and chairs were thrown."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c982y5n0nlno

    Leon, who was protesting about a murder by knifing:

    "admitted resisting a police officer and possession of an offensive weapon - a samurai sword in his bedroom - when officers came to arrest him in the early hours of 7 June. The court heard he adopted a "fighting stance" at the top of the stairs and threatened officers who had to use pava spray to subdue him."

    No irony here I'm sure....lucky to only get 3 years imo.
    Leon a hypocritical, racist trouble-maker?

    Say it isn't so.
    Bit off as he isn’t around to bite back. I don’t think he’s racist, just enjoys causing controversy.
    Bit rich from a genocidal Zionist.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 8,001
    edited June 9
    Per The Telegraph:

    "Andy Burnham’s Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) used a “deeply flawed” analysis to justify £140m in loans to a skyscraper tycoon, a court has heard.

    The Mayor’s authority has been accused of failing to carry out basic checks on property developer Daren Whitaker before approving loans worth roughly half of its public housing investment fund.

    The legal challenge has been brought by Aubrey Weis, a rival developer, who argues the loans amounted to an unlawful subsidy for projects linked to Mr Whitaker."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,229
    edited June 9
    Just spent a couple of days in Liverpool and, my goodness, the people there are fantastic.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,543
    This report could almost be written to help Reform:

    Two men have been found guilty of grooming and trafficking seven teenage girls for sexual abuse after contacting them on Snapchat.

    Bawan Harwe and Sharam Muhamadi used fake names to message the girls, who were aged between 12 and 16, and offered them drugs, e-cigarettes, money and taxi journeys to entice them to meet in person.

    Following a four-week trial, Harwe, 28, and Muhamadi, 21, were found guilty of several offences committed against the girls, who were driven from Barnsley to Doncaster, between June and August 2024.

    Muhamadi stopped attending Sheffield Crown Court partway through the trial and was convicted in his absence, with a warrant now out for his arrest.

    He had initially been remanded in custody between charge and the beginning of the trial, South Yorkshire Police said, before his defence team's application for bail was granted by the court.


    Harwe, of no fixed abode, and Muhamadi, formerly of Halifax, will be sentenced at the same court on Thursday.

    Iraqi national Harwe was found guilty of six counts of rape of a child and five counts of arranging or facilitating travel of another person with a view of exploitation.

    He had previously pleaded guilty to one count of rape of a child under 13.

    Six of the girls were given alcohol and drugs before being raped by Harwe.

    Muhamadi, who is from Iran, was found guilty of two counts of arranging or facilitating travel of another person with a view of exploitation.

    ...

    The trial heard that Muhamadi was taken into the care of social services in Bradford after entering the UK as an unaccompanied asylum seeker.

    He had made a claim for asylum in 2021 at the age of 16 and was granted leave to remain in the UK in 2022, to be reviewed in 2027.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0ey1lz01ngo
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955

    MikeL said:

    Per The Telegraph:

    "Andy Burnham’s Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) used a “deeply flawed” analysis to justify £140m in loans to a skyscraper tycoon, a court has heard.

    The Mayor’s authority has been accused of failing to carry out basic checks on property developer Daren Whitaker before approving loans worth roughly half of its public housing investment fund.

    The legal challenge has been brought by Aubrey Weis, a rival developer, who argues the loans amounted to an unlawful subsidy for projects linked to Mr Whitaker."

    "A court heard" is such a convincing-sounding phrase compared to "some rich person said" even though it has the same meaning.
    It’s the same in all reporting. There is always a “people have criticised party x” for some announcement and the “people” are usually a small vocal special interest group when the majority are completely blissfully unaware.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397
    boulay said:

    MikeL said:

    Per The Telegraph:

    "Andy Burnham’s Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) used a “deeply flawed” analysis to justify £140m in loans to a skyscraper tycoon, a court has heard.

    The Mayor’s authority has been accused of failing to carry out basic checks on property developer Daren Whitaker before approving loans worth roughly half of its public housing investment fund.

    The legal challenge has been brought by Aubrey Weis, a rival developer, who argues the loans amounted to an unlawful subsidy for projects linked to Mr Whitaker."

    "A court heard" is such a convincing-sounding phrase compared to "some rich person said" even though it has the same meaning.
    It’s the same in all reporting. There is always a “people have criticised party x” for some announcement and the “people” are usually a small vocal special interest group when the majority are completely blissfully unaware.
    The majority of TV local news is exactly like that. Effectively press releases for special interest groups.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,510

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    A good thread on military procurement, and why it’s the next industry ripe for turning upside-down.

    https://x.com/bscholl/status/2064406095180022187

    It takes 400 companies >2 years to build a Patriot missile. Perhaps this is why USA suddenly gave up in Iran.

    Incompetent manufacturing will cause us to lose future wars too. Boom is building vertically integrated factories that can do in 24h what otherwise takes years.

    (Oh, this is the guy building a privately-funded supersonic airliner in the US).

    Demand isn’t there for supersonic jets - time to pivot (not surprising given how much money is in military tenders)
    His first pivot is to making turbines for data centres, while he gets them certified to go on aeroplanes. They’re remarkably similar.
    That's why they're called aeroderivative gas turbines.
    It’s pretty rare to find a generator turbine that isn’t derived from an aircraft engine, IIRC

    In some areas the changes have been startling. A few years back an FFSC rocket engine was beyond state of the art for the biggest aerospace firms. Recently, Stoke built an FFSC with a handful of engineers inside a year and fired it on a test stand.
    Originally, yes, but these days there are generally two classes of GT: areoderivative and industrial. The former tend to be smaller (not surprising as they have to get carried around on aircraft wings) with lower power output. The latter bigger, such as Frame 7 and Frame 9, with higher power output, and used in larger CCGT power plants.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,936
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nice long sentences for those who protested at Henry Nowak demonstrations.

    "Two men have been jailed for violent disorder at a protest in Southampton following the murder of Henry Nowak.

    Connor Bishop, 24, was sentenced to two years and eight months and Leon O'Leary, 41, was jailed for three years and one month. Both pleaded guilty to violent disorder at a previous hearing.

    They are the first people to be sentenced after violence on 2 June saw 12 police officers and a police dog injured as missiles including wheelie bins and chairs were thrown."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c982y5n0nlno

    Leon, who was protesting about a murder by knifing:

    "admitted resisting a police officer and possession of an offensive weapon - a samurai sword in his bedroom - when officers came to arrest him in the early hours of 7 June. The court heard he adopted a "fighting stance" at the top of the stairs and threatened officers who had to use pava spray to subdue him."

    No irony here I'm sure....lucky to only get 3 years imo.
    Leon a hypocritical, racist trouble-maker?

    Say it isn't so.
    Bit off as he isn’t around to bite back. I don’t think he’s racist, just enjoys causing controversy.
    Sentence one, a fair point. Sentence two, in that case he's very good at it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,633
    Andy_JS said:

    Just spent a couple of days in Liverpool and, my goodness, the people there are fantastic.

    How was your walk around Makerfield?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Just spent a couple of days in Liverpool and, my goodness, the people there are fantastic.

    Who is this aimed at
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,602
    Another "house of 2020" feature from Tomorrow's World (I think) from 1989.

    This one has about 75% of it correct.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/videos/cnk55nnnyxpo
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,686
    edited June 9
    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989
    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989
    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955
    HYUFD said:

    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20

    Wonderful news, all very People’s Front of Judea v Judean People’s front.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    It is a tough ask to have low enough gravitas to follow Starmer, Rishi, Truss and Bozo to be fair.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    edited June 9
    jessica Elgot
    @jessicaelgot
    Spent Monday in parts of Ashton and Orrell where Labour are targeting around 16% still undecided voters in Makerfield by-election.

    Some observations

    - Many who voted Reform only weeks ago are prepared to vote for Burnham. There is a *big* gender divide and QT was a big factor


    Jessica Elgot
    @jessicaelgot
    ·
    51m
    - Constituency is hugely engaged, those voting Reform have definitely been moving away from Labour for a good while. Lots of Reform boards.

    - Bur the Labour campaign is pretty mindblowing. 45% contact rate, whole constituency knocked five times. Almost too many volunteers.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064435375829897688
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

  • TazTaz Posts: 28,397

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Roger Gale and Graham Stringer ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,686
    Taz said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Roger Gale and Graham Stringer ?
    Yes and no.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335
    HYUFD said:

    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20

    If Farage is lucky Jenrick will also defect to Restore.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,558

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Corbyn is one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,962
    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,861
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20

    Wonderful news, all very People’s Front of Judea v Judean People’s front.
    Sounds like Reform needs to be Restored and Restore needs to be Reformed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,686
    ydoethur said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Corbyn is one.
    Yes, you and Taz got the answers between you.

    Roger Gale and The Jezza.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955

    HYUFD said:

    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20

    If Farage is lucky Jenrick will also defect to Restore.
    He could be working out how to butter up Andy Burnham right now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,846

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    So the first 2 people arrested in the protests outside Southampton police station have got 34 and 37 months each in prison

    For what, exactly? Looks awfully “Two-tier” unless someone was seriously injured.
    No one should be in any doubt by now that the courts take a f*cking dim view of violent disorder and rioting.

    Been that way for a long long time.

    Twitter seems to think this was the same judge who sentenced Lucy Connolly. Any truth to that?
    "Twitter seems to think" = "Untrue with near 100% probability".
    Sandpit is basically a conspiracy theorist.
    He accepted an alternative position when presented with it - they don't do that.
    Sandpit is just one of the billions of people who mistake social media for a news source.
    Twitter is a great news source.
    It just needs treating with a massive dose of scepticism.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012
    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,541
    edited June 9

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Are there any in parliament with interrupted service?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,964
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    So the first 2 people arrested in the protests outside Southampton police station have got 34 and 37 months each in prison

    For what, exactly? Looks awfully “Two-tier” unless someone was seriously injured.
    No one should be in any doubt by now that the courts take a f*cking dim view of violent disorder and rioting.

    Been that way for a long long time.

    Twitter seems to think this was the same judge who sentenced Lucy Connolly. Any truth to that?
    "Twitter seems to think" = "Untrue with near 100% probability".
    Sandpit is basically a conspiracy theorist.
    He accepted an alternative position when presented with it - they don't do that.
    Sandpit is just one of the billions of people who mistake social media for a news source.
    Twitter is a great news source.
    It just needs treating with a massive dose of scepticism.
    Twitter was a great news source - but since the algorithms changed what you see is far more biased than it used to be.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    PM Mirren would be good. No nonsense and great tits which is really what the country is crying out for - you have the votes of the luvvies, shire conservatives, and sun readers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    There was a GE this day in 1983.

    A one Tony Blair was elected for the first time.

  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,817
    edited June 9

    Taz said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Roger Gale and Graham Stringer ?
    Yes and no.
    Gale and Corbyn

    Edit: Sorry, too late.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,602

    jessica Elgot
    @jessicaelgot
    Spent Monday in parts of Ashton and Orrell where Labour are targeting around 16% still undecided voters in Makerfield by-election.

    Some observations

    - Many who voted Reform only weeks ago are prepared to vote for Burnham. There is a *big* gender divide and QT was a big factor


    Jessica Elgot
    @jessicaelgot
    ·
    51m
    - Constituency is hugely engaged, those voting Reform have definitely been moving away from Labour for a good while. Lots of Reform boards.

    - Bur the Labour campaign is pretty mindblowing. 45% contact rate, whole constituency knocked five times. Almost too many volunteers.

    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2064435375829897688

    They seem to have learned the lesson of Runcorn.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    Taz said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Roger Gale and Graham Stringer ?
    Yes and no.
    Gale and Corbyn

    Edit: Sorry, too late.
    That's sad, which one passed?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    rcs1000 said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Are there any in parliament with interrupted service?
    Wee Dougie is back as an MP after a little break.

    Or did you mean interrupted since 1983?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,846
    .

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    Very Little Gravitas Indeed
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,541

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    But Musk isn’t just commenting. He’s broadcasting his message to the world through the social media platform he owns. Twitter is programmed to push his thoughts at people. That’s closer to if Lord Sugar took out a paid advert.
    That's not new though, Murdoch has broadcast his messages to the world through platforms he owns for decades. When has it ever been expensed?
    Sandpit asked whether Lowe had had communications with Musk. If someone endorsed you, that’s one thing. If a candidate arranges with someone for the equivalent of a paid ad, that’s something that could come under rules around election communications and donations.
    What's the precedence for that?

    Politicians have regularly had correspondence with Murdoch et al.
    More than just correspondance: see Blair's pilgrimage to Murdoch.

    The one area where Lowe does need to be *slightly* careful, though, is to make sure he's disclosing all his Twitter/X earnings. If he really is taking in 10k+/month then that should be disclosed in the Register of Interests.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012
    rcs1000 said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Are there any in parliament with interrupted service?
    All the ones who moved to the Lords?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,817
    edited June 9

    There was a GE this day in 1983.

    A one Tony Blair was elected for the first time.

    Bernie Grant became the first black MP to be elected to Parliament at that election.

    Sorry, just checked - 1987 in fact. Memory playing tricks on me. I think Diane Abbot was also in that intake.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    HYUFD said:

    'BREAKING: Reform UK Senedd members have contacted Restore Britain to express their desire to defect to the party

    Rupert Lowe has confirmed this'

    https://x.com/GBPolitcs/status/2064441587115921529?s=20

    If Farage is lucky Jenrick will also defect to Restore.
    Who will give the bigger bungs, sorry donations? Thai crypto guy or Musk?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,962
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    But Musk isn’t just commenting. He’s broadcasting his message to the world through the social media platform he owns. Twitter is programmed to push his thoughts at people. That’s closer to if Lord Sugar took out a paid advert.
    That's not new though, Murdoch has broadcast his messages to the world through platforms he owns for decades. When has it ever been expensed?
    Sandpit asked whether Lowe had had communications with Musk. If someone endorsed you, that’s one thing. If a candidate arranges with someone for the equivalent of a paid ad, that’s something that could come under rules around election communications and donations.
    What's the precedence for that?

    Politicians have regularly had correspondence with Murdoch et al.
    More than just correspondance: see Blair's pilgrimage to Murdoch.

    The one area where Lowe does need to be *slightly* careful, though, is to make sure he's disclosing all his Twitter/X earnings. If he really is taking in 10k+/month then that should be disclosed in the Register of Interests.
    His x monetisation payments are all listed here:

    https://members.parliament.uk/member/5158/registeredinterests
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    Not sure that Jimmy Carr would last long at Prime Minister's questions before upsetting the Speaker.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,879

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    "I have as much chance of becoming Prime Minister as of being decapitated by a frisbee or of finding Elvis." - Boris.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,846
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    So the first 2 people arrested in the protests outside Southampton police station have got 34 and 37 months each in prison

    For what, exactly? Looks awfully “Two-tier” unless someone was seriously injured.
    No one should be in any doubt by now that the courts take a f*cking dim view of violent disorder and rioting.

    Been that way for a long long time.

    Twitter seems to think this was the same judge who sentenced Lucy Connolly. Any truth to that?
    "Twitter seems to think" = "Untrue with near 100% probability".
    Sandpit is basically a conspiracy theorist.
    He accepted an alternative position when presented with it - they don't do that.
    Sandpit is just one of the billions of people who mistake social media for a news source.
    Twitter is a great news source.
    It just needs treating with a massive dose of scepticism.
    Twitter was a great news source - but since the algorithms changed what you see is far more biased than it used to be.
    You can do a great deal to unbias it by persistent blocking and muting to cut out noise.
    Takes a bit of effort but it's worth it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452

    There was a GE this day in 1983.

    A one Tony Blair was elected for the first time.

    Bernie Grant became the first black MP to be elected to Parliament at that election.

    Sorry, just checked - 1987 in fact. Memory playing tricks on me. I think Diane Abbot was also in that intake.
    I was still a student.

    Seems a lifetime ago. Which indeed it is.

    Feeling old :anguished:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,816

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    'Relatability' is probably more important for electoral purposes.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,817
    edited June 9

    There was a GE this day in 1983.

    A one Tony Blair was elected for the first time.

    Bernie Grant became the first black MP to be elected to Parliament at that election.

    Sorry, just checked - 1987 in fact. Memory playing tricks on me. I think Diane Abbot was also in that intake.
    I was still a student.

    Seems a lifetime ago. Which indeed it is.

    Feeling old :anguished:
    I was a student too in 1983 (first GE I voted in).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,437
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,905
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    Very Little Gravitas Indeed
    Very little needed. How much gravitas did Truss or or Johnson have?

    Let alone Trump!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989
    edited June 9

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    Reagan was a Hollywood actor who became President of the USA too (though he also had a degree in economics and Zelensky has a law degree both relevant courses for political leaders)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,905

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Newspapers and medical journals already accept responsibility for what they publish.

    If a reader sets preferences, that is very different to the Social Media alogorithim choosing them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,905

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Newspapers and medical journals already accept responsibility for what they publish.

    If a reader sets preferences, that is very different to the Social Media alogorithim choosing them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,989

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
    Burnham is King of the North apparently
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    Not sure that Jimmy Carr would last long at Prime Minister's questions before upsetting the Speaker.
    In favour, could we please have PM Carr, but only for the days whenever Trump is on a state visit over here?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
    Burnham is King of the North apparently
    Winter is coming!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,437
    MikeL said:

    Per The Telegraph:

    "Andy Burnham’s Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) used a “deeply flawed” analysis to justify £140m in loans to a skyscraper tycoon, a court has heard.

    The Mayor’s authority has been accused of failing to carry out basic checks on property developer Daren Whitaker before approving loans worth roughly half of its public housing investment fund.

    The legal challenge has been brought by Aubrey Weis, a rival developer, who argues the loans amounted to an unlawful subsidy for projects linked to Mr Whitaker."

    Nothing new here. In fact, £140 million is a fraction of the loans to that one developer. Maybe the court case will make it more prominent to voters but I'm hundreds of miles away. Anyway, here is the Telegraph story if anyone wants to read it and possibly change their bets:-

    Burnham ‘relied on deeply flawed analysis’ to pay out skyscraper loans
    Developer accuses Mayor’s authority of bypassing basic checks before approving £140m fund

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/01a9fcc213c566e4

    Gift link so no paywall.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Eh?

    Back in the day, on Facebook, say, your feed would be a reverse chronological order of posts by the people whose posts you wanted to see. That would be it. Same with twitter. And then you could actively search for other things, such as posts about a subject or place you were interested in.

    Then the social media companies started using algorithms to curate what they showed you, so they'd shove all this crap in front of you that you hadn't chosen to see, but that would annoy you and keep you scrolling for longer, while you tried to find the posts from the people you wanted to follow.

    The whole point is that social media is now a space where an algorithm edits your experience, in the same way that a newspaper edits what news it presents, and so if they want to use an algorithm they should abide by the same rules as newspapers.

    If they're only a neutral place for other people to do their own thing then they should not use algorithms to interfere in what you see.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    edited June 9
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    Very Little Gravitas Indeed
    Very little needed. How much gravitas did Truss or or Johnson have?

    Let alone Trump!
    We'll see.

    I am predicting this will become a talking point/issue in say twelve months time.

    Not sure the whole mate of the Smiths/could have been a guitar player in Stone Roses is gonna be working by next year as we enter a world of shit over EL Nino/Trump/Putin/Hormuz/inflation.

    Edit: One of the iron rules I have of politics is there is always an overcompensation the other way after a premiership.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,067
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    But Musk isn’t just commenting. He’s broadcasting his message to the world through the social media platform he owns. Twitter is programmed to push his thoughts at people. That’s closer to if Lord Sugar took out a paid advert.
    That's not new though, Murdoch has broadcast his messages to the world through platforms he owns for decades. When has it ever been expensed?
    Sandpit asked whether Lowe had had communications with Musk. If someone endorsed you, that’s one thing. If a candidate arranges with someone for the equivalent of a paid ad, that’s something that could come under rules around election communications and donations.
    What's the precedence for that?

    Politicians have regularly had correspondence with Murdoch et al.
    More than just correspondance: see Blair's pilgrimage to Murdoch.

    The one area where Lowe does need to be *slightly* careful, though, is to make sure he's disclosing all his Twitter/X earnings. If he really is taking in 10k+/month then that should be disclosed in the Register of Interests.
    Away from all this Twitter discussion, the area Lowe needs to be very careful is the Parliamentary watchdog investigation into him that he tried and failed to stop, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0wre4k2zo , but the details of which are still unknown.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    Very Little Gravitas Indeed
    Very little needed. How much gravitas did Truss or or Johnson have?

    Let alone Trump!
    We'll see.

    I am predicting this will become a talking point/issue in say twelve months time.

    Not sure the whole mate of the Smiths/could have been a guitar player in Stone Roses is gonna be working by next year as we enter a world of shit over EL Nino/Trump/Putin/Hormuz/inflation.

    Of course it will become an issue. Literally anyone taking over as PM in 2026 will be heavily criticised and very unpopular by summer 2027.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,067

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    But that's the point. A newspaper can be sued for its content, while social media can't in the same way. But if social media are curating and choosing what to put in front of people, then they're acting like a newspaper and should be open to the same legal actions (e.g., libel cases).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,602

    There was a GE this day in 1983.

    A one Tony Blair was elected for the first time.

    Bernie Grant became the first black MP to be elected to Parliament at that election.

    Sorry, just checked - 1987 in fact. Memory playing tricks on me. I think Diane Abbot was also in that intake.
    I think that's a bit contentious. It's technically correct for "Black British", but there's a whole history of Black British / White British mixed race MPs going back to 1769. And much of that history is still not widely known.

    And I think in today's categories they perhaps qualify.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_ethnic_minority_politicians_in_the_United_Kingdom
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    "I have as much chance of becoming Prime Minister as of being decapitated by a frisbee or of finding Elvis." - Boris.
    Indeed. No chance Boris shops at Lidl which is where Elvis works as a cashier these days.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,285

    Andy_JS said:

    Just spent a couple of days in Liverpool and, my goodness, the people there are fantastic.

    Who is this aimed at
    Don't be grumpy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
    Burnham is King of the North apparently
    Winter is coming!
    Arguably another twelve days until @Leon_VotedForStarmer starts on about the dark drawing in ever earlier and isn't he the dogs bollocks lucky he has a ticket to spend all of January in Thailand... but yeh it is coming.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,651
    edited June 9
    HYUFD said:

    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20

    Oh dear! That doesn't match what the Rejoiners have been telling us.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,633

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?
    Emma was born abroad so Rupert Lowe would have passed legislation outlawing this.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,470

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Eh?

    Back in the day, on Facebook, say, your feed would be a reverse chronological order of posts by the people whose posts you wanted to see. That would be it. Same with twitter. And then you could actively search for other things, such as posts about a subject or place you were interested in.

    Then the social media companies started using algorithms to curate what they showed you, so they'd shove all this crap in front of you that you hadn't chosen to see, but that would annoy you and keep you scrolling for longer, while you tried to find the posts from the people you wanted to follow.

    The whole point is that social media is now a space where an algorithm edits your experience, in the same way that a newspaper edits what news it presents, and so if they want to use an algorithm they should abide by the same rules as newspapers.

    If they're only a neutral place for other people to do their own thing then they should not use algorithms to interfere in what you see.
    Perhaps people should ask for their money back.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,285

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20

    Oh dear! That doesn't match what the Rejoiners have been telling us.
    My guess is most people don't quite know what Schengen is, but the Euro is very toxic.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,068

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
    Burnham is King of the North apparently
    Winter is coming!
    Arguably another twelve days until @Leon_VotedForStarmer starts on about the dark drawing in ever earlier and isn't he the dogs bollocks lucky he has a ticket to spend all of January in Thailand... but yeh it is coming.
    He's banned though
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,651
    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20

    Oh dear! That doesn't match what the Rejoiners have been telling us.
    My guess is most people don't quite know what Schengen is, but the Euro is very toxic.
    I think they probably associate it with giving away border controls to an EU level.

    If anything, the polling is surprisingly high for Join.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,937
    edited June 9
    AnneJGP said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Eh?

    Back in the day, on Facebook, say, your feed would be a reverse chronological order of posts by the people whose posts you wanted to see. That would be it. Same with twitter. And then you could actively search for other things, such as posts about a subject or place you were interested in.

    Then the social media companies started using algorithms to curate what they showed you, so they'd shove all this crap in front of you that you hadn't chosen to see, but that would annoy you and keep you scrolling for longer, while you tried to find the posts from the people you wanted to follow.

    The whole point is that social media is now a space where an algorithm edits your experience, in the same way that a newspaper edits what news it presents, and so if they want to use an algorithm they should abide by the same rules as newspapers.

    If they're only a neutral place for other people to do their own thing then they should not use algorithms to interfere in what you see.
    Perhaps people should ask for their money back.
    That's part of the problem. We might know that we ought to want reliable news and information, mostly we're not prepared to pay for it.

    Talking of which, a new report on online non-news;

    2 in 5 local Facebook groups and over four-fifths of X searches featured at least one piece of misinformation in their last 1,000 posts. Of 19 Nextdoor locations studied, 3 were found to contain misinformation.
    Nearly 1 in 26 (4%) of news related posts on Facebook were misinformation; on X the ratio is over 1 in 4 (28%)
    Places in local authorities with no or limited local news outlets (e.g. ‘news deserts’) had nearly 3 times as much fake news as a share of all posts as average on Facebook groups, albeit based upon 12 groups worth of data.
    Conversely, places with a relatively high number of local news outlets (‘news oases’) have half as much misinformation as average, again based upon a limited sample (13 groups).
    Places with local elections, on average, saw more misinformation in the run up to polling day than they did earlier in the year. Misinformation as a share of all posts increased from 0.12% to 0.15% (26% increase) and as a share of news grew from 8.2% to 12.9% (56%).
    The rate of misinformation seen across four Gorton and Denton local Facebook groups was 26 times higher than in the wider Facebook analysis – 3% of 1,000 posts were identified as fake news, compared to 0.1% nationally. This is driven by far more news related posts on these groups, and a near doubling of the share of them being classified as misinformation.
    Three in five misinformation posts (61%) in places with local elections in the week of the vote related to national politics or council issues, compared to 28% in the wider national analysis earlier in the year.
    1 in 5 ‘fake news’ (19%) posts analysed on Facebook groups related to local issues, including planning, transport, local services and council politics. Our case studies revealed how planning applications could be misinterpreted into the “council selling off the beach”, or how local authority communications can be faked.
    A third (32%) of misinformation found on X was anti-immigration or Islamophobic, far ahead of the next most common, h…

    https://bsky.app/profile/timbale.bsky.social/post/3mnryegmxqk2e
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,633

    MikeL said:

    Per The Telegraph:

    "Andy Burnham’s Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) used a “deeply flawed” analysis to justify £140m in loans to a skyscraper tycoon, a court has heard.

    The Mayor’s authority has been accused of failing to carry out basic checks on property developer Daren Whitaker before approving loans worth roughly half of its public housing investment fund.

    The legal challenge has been brought by Aubrey Weis, a rival developer, who argues the loans amounted to an unlawful subsidy for projects linked to Mr Whitaker."

    Nothing new here. In fact, £140 million is a fraction of the loans to that one developer. Maybe the court case will make it more prominent to voters but I'm hundreds of miles away. Anyway, here is the Telegraph story if anyone wants to read it and possibly change their bets:-

    Burnham ‘relied on deeply flawed analysis’ to pay out skyscraper loans
    Developer accuses Mayor’s authority of bypassing basic checks before approving £140m fund

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/01a9fcc213c566e4

    Gift link so no paywall.
    "A court has heard"...
    From a rival developer who didn't land the contract.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335
    AnneJGP said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Eh?

    Back in the day, on Facebook, say, your feed would be a reverse chronological order of posts by the people whose posts you wanted to see. That would be it. Same with twitter. And then you could actively search for other things, such as posts about a subject or place you were interested in.

    Then the social media companies started using algorithms to curate what they showed you, so they'd shove all this crap in front of you that you hadn't chosen to see, but that would annoy you and keep you scrolling for longer, while you tried to find the posts from the people you wanted to follow.

    The whole point is that social media is now a space where an algorithm edits your experience, in the same way that a newspaper edits what news it presents, and so if they want to use an algorithm they should abide by the same rules as newspapers.

    If they're only a neutral place for other people to do their own thing then they should not use algorithms to interfere in what you see.
    Perhaps people should ask for their money back.
    I think Facebook makes about $80 of annual revenue for each of its daily users, mostly from selling ads shown to them, while those users are riled up to increase their engagement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874

    AnneJGP said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk is retweeting Rupert Lowe again:

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2064396727344320767

    Musk’s comment:

    Only Restore Britain can save Britain.

    It is the only way.


    That’s a nakedly partisan political comment to someone with likely several million UK followers, during a restricted election period.

    Will one of the other parties ask for a ruling from the Electoral Commission on what might be the value of such posts, if they need to be included in by-election spending, and ask Lowe to produce any communications he may have had with Mr Musk?

    Eh?

    So if Lord Sugar or Tony Robinson or other celebs who've endorsed Labour in the past make naked partisan comments, does that get counted against their budget?

    Many ways to criticise Musk and Restore, but celebrities making comments is neither new nor actionable surely?
    That’s a fair argument, that it’s the same as a newspaper endorsement coming from the proprietor or editorial team. But what if they’re foreigners widely read in the UK.

    There’s plenty of both positives and negatives about Mr Lowe, but I was thinking it’s an issue that hasnn’t come up before, so might be worthy of somebody getting a ruling on what is or isn’t allowed.
    The simple solution to most of our Social Media related woes is to make any platform that uses an alogorithm other than chronological liable as any other media publisher. It would cut them down to size very quickly if they didn't shape up.
    You do not think users should be able to choose what they want to see, and block what they do not want under your "chronological only" rule? Would you apply "chronological only" to other media? Newspapers would become unreadable, as would medical journals. It sounds fine but it completely ignores reality.
    Eh?

    Back in the day, on Facebook, say, your feed would be a reverse chronological order of posts by the people whose posts you wanted to see. That would be it. Same with twitter. And then you could actively search for other things, such as posts about a subject or place you were interested in.

    Then the social media companies started using algorithms to curate what they showed you, so they'd shove all this crap in front of you that you hadn't chosen to see, but that would annoy you and keep you scrolling for longer, while you tried to find the posts from the people you wanted to follow.

    The whole point is that social media is now a space where an algorithm edits your experience, in the same way that a newspaper edits what news it presents, and so if they want to use an algorithm they should abide by the same rules as newspapers.

    If they're only a neutral place for other people to do their own thing then they should not use algorithms to interfere in what you see.
    Perhaps people should ask for their money back.
    I think Facebook makes about $80 of annual revenue for each of its daily users, mostly from selling ads shown to them, while those users are riled up to increase their engagement.
    Glad I never got into it. Very profitable though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Trudeau was Canadian political royalty though.
    Burnham is King of the North apparently
    Winter is coming!
    Arguably another twelve days until @Leon_VotedForStarmer starts on about the dark drawing in ever earlier and isn't he the dogs bollocks lucky he has a ticket to spend all of January in Thailand... but yeh it is coming.
    He's banned though
    Do we know how long this time?
  • Burnham is fortunate Reform is imploding now.

    Labour lead by the end of the year. DYOR
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20

    Oh dear! That doesn't match what the Rejoiners have been telling us.
    My guess is most people don't quite know what Schengen is, but the Euro is very toxic.
    I think they probably associate it with giving away border controls to an EU level.

    If anything, the polling is surprisingly high for Join.
    Given the decade of arguments that have been had on the issue I'd expect each side to have a pretty large hard core of support, so the extent to which you could sway opinion by attaching leading questions to the poll would be much lower than normal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,962

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    But he can play the guitar:

    https://x.com/andy4makerfield/status/2064424526297903193
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874
    edited June 9
    rcs1000 said:

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    Are there any in parliament with interrupted service?
    Ed Davey for one.

    Chris Chope,Heidi Alexander, and probably a host of others.

    Soon, Andy Burnham.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,602
    I did not know that.

    London's tallest, narrowest door, in Flitcroft Street.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wqJGr9ZE8zA
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?

    Zelensky famously mimed playing the piano with his penis - not sure who the British comic equivalent would be, though he did also do more serious comedic work (if that is not an oxymoron) later.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,452
    The U.S. Central Command said American forces launched strikes on Iran at 5 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday in response to the downing of an Apache helicopter. “The mission is a proportional response to unjustified Iranian aggression,” the military said in a statement on social media.

    NY Time live blog
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,855
    edited June 9
    Fans of "World War Z" and "Greyhound" may be pleased to know that sequels may be happening:
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,894
    It's good to hear that those two crewmen were rescued.
    Two U.S. Army aviators were rescued by a Navy sea drone near the Strait of Hormuz after their helicopter was shot down by Iranian forces, marking the first operation of its kind, U.S. military officials said Tuesday.
    (And I am pleased to see the Army and Navy working together.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,335
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?

    Zelensky famously mimed playing the piano with his penis - not sure who the British comic equivalent would be, though he did also do more serious comedic work (if that is not an oxymoron) later.
    I guess Bill Bailey is perhaps the closest.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,937

    carnforth said:

    HYUFD said:

    YouGov poll:

    UK would not have previous opt-outs (including the Euro and Schengen)

    EU membership referendum

    Stay out/Leave: 55% (+3)
    Join/Remain: 45% (-3)

    +/- vs. EU Membership Referendum 2016

    https://x.com/EuropeElects/status/2064366741224862056?s=20

    Oh dear! That doesn't match what the Rejoiners have been telling us.
    My guess is most people don't quite know what Schengen is, but the Euro is very toxic.
    I think they probably associate it with giving away border controls to an EU level.

    If anything, the polling is surprisingly high for Join.
    I'm not sure it's that surprising, though I accept it depends who you talk to. Public opinion seems to have concluded that Brexit is not very much like having a child as a result of making love to a beautiful woman. Which leads to the question of what to do about it. Which nobody really wants to touch yet.

    Bit cheeky of YouGov to compare the popularity of full-fat Euro integration with the popularity of Dave's Deal which, however imperfectly, did ringfence some separation from the Whore of BabylonBrussels.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874
    edited June 9

    Can you guess the other two? I got them.

    Today marks 43 years to the day, 9th June 1983, that I was first elected to Parliament in Margaret Thatcher's glorious landslide election. Only 3 of us elected that day remain in parliament with uninterrupted service.

    https://x.com/EdwardLeighGB/status/2064378561381769611

    I'm glad for Sir Edward, though it does amuse that if he had not been re-elected Jeremy Corbyn would be Father of the House. Not that old either really.

    Most MPs are young by US standards - google says the average age of an MP is 48 years, vs the House of representatives at 58 years. I thought the average age would go up a lot with the Senate, but it's about the same apparently.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874
    viewcode said:

    Fans of "World War Z" and "Greyhound" may be pleased to know that sequels may be happening:


    At least people won't be able to moan that WWZ 2 is nothing at all like the book, as with the first film.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,874

    The U.S. Central Command said American forces launched strikes on Iran at 5 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday in response to the downing of an Apache helicopter. “The mission is a proportional response to unjustified Iranian aggression,” the military said in a statement on social media.

    NY Time live blog

    Very unlike Trump to push a 'proportionate response' given early on he was threatening to destroy the entire Iranian civilization if they didn't surrender.

    He must really want a deal badly.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,067

    The U.S. Central Command said American forces launched strikes on Iran at 5 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday in response to the downing of an Apache helicopter. “The mission is a proportional response to unjustified Iranian aggression,” the military said in a statement on social media.

    NY Time live blog

    Unjustified aggression?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,846
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    Very Little Gravitas Indeed
    Very little needed. How much gravitas did Truss or or Johnson have?

    Let alone Trump!
    The Culture also has a Zero Gravitas.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,955

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    But he can play the guitar:

    https://x.com/andy4makerfield/status/2064424526297903193
    Without wanting to click, is it all a bit David Brent?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,012
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Has Andy Burnham got the gravitas to be PM?

    I'm beginning to wonder.

    If Justin Trudeau, a former drama supply teacher, could be PM of a G7 nation for a decade I am sure Cambridge educated Burnham could manage.

    Zelensky was a comic actor too. Perhaps there is something in this, might we have been happier with a PM Mirren or Grant? Maybe in the future Emma Watson?

    Zelensky famously mimed playing the piano with his penis - not sure who the British comic equivalent would be, though he did also do more serious comedic work (if that is not an oxymoron) later.
    Clearly Boris, whenever delivering a key note he showed himself to be a cock.
This discussion has been closed.