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Shortly there will NOT be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,168
    Have we discovored why PB's own equine is known as horse? (From Fesshole, the funniest part of X)

    "Former regional TV reporter. Did a piece live to camera for the teatime show with a guy who insisted on being called Horse. Made the mistake of asking "So why do they call you Horse?" "Cos I got an enormous cock". Left soon after that."

    https://x.com/fesshole/status/2062073054881079528
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,168
    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    He should probably bung in something about the state confiscating your social care costs too.
    Given that ploy worked so well for Theresa May...
    May 317 seats
    Corbyn 262 seats

    :innocent:
    But no majority...
    Neither did Corbyn
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    Interesting article on what Burnham offers and his chances of winning

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/03/andy-burnham-labour-brexit-reform-voters-britain-eu
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,501
    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    Have we discovored why PB's own equine is known as horse? (From Fesshole, the funniest part of X)

    "Former regional TV reporter. Did a piece live to camera for the teatime show with a guy who insisted on being called Horse. Made the mistake of asking "So why do they call you Horse?" "Cos I got an enormous cock". Left soon after that."

    https://x.com/fesshole/status/2062073054881079528

    Surely our very own Horse is so-called because he's a Neigh-sayer?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,307
    edited 9:12AM
    Just looked up the Earl Shilton case. Interestingly, online summaries from various chambers appear to disagree with @Cyclefree’s characterisation of this case as being about a failure to provide sex specific facilities in & of itself being discriminatory. The judgement seems to have turned entirely on the sexes being treated differently: Women had to make a request to access female toilets, or alternatively were permitted to use the (inadequate for female use, with a urinal in full view & without a lockable external door) male toilets whilst men could use the male toilets at will. Unsurprisingly this was held to be direct discrimination on the grounds of sex: Both of these options constituted a detriment to any female employees compared to male ones.

    https://www.42br.com/latest-news/jason-braier-discusses-earl-shilton-town-council-v-miller.htm

    Judgement:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63d8076fd3bf7f252a730a11/Earl_Shilton_Town_Council_-v-_Ms_K_Miller__2023__EAT_5.pdf

    The idea that an all-gender toilet with no external lockable door, no hot water & a urinal to pass before you can get to a cubicle would be acceptable or is in any way equivalent to the kind of gender neutral facilities that people have been suggesting here, or equivalent to the gender neutral changing rooms in high street stores with individual lockable doors is obviously (I hope) ridiculous.

    NB. @BartholomewRoberts I have looked for the mention of Next, but now can’t find it. My memory says that such claims floated past my Twitter feed, but perhaps I have misremembered. If it comes up again I will point it out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @specialkhersoncat.bsky.social‬

    🔥⚓️🚢BREAKING: Operators of the 1st Separate Center of the USF struck and set ablaze the Russian Baltic Fleet corvette Project 20380 Steregushchiy-class corvette Boykiy while it was undergoing repairs in a dry dock at Kronstadt near St. Petersburg.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Fuel now being rationed at some Moscow petrol stations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mneq3jp6lc2w
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,254

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).
    Met one of my friends at the weekend, he has a big beer belly and awaiting a knee replacement. Don't know why he just doesn't lose the weight. I know he likes beer, but must like moving about more.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,501

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    So we went in a few hours from 'nobody I know talking about it / ludicrously false equivalence' to prime ministerial statements and government policy changes.

    To be fair I think the government handled the issue quite well yesterday.

    Their problem is that their posturing about George Floyd has become a hostage to fortune for possible events in this country.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).
    Met one of my friends at the weekend, he has a big beer belly and awaiting a knee replacement. Don't know why he just doesn't lose the weight. I know he likes beer, but must like moving about more.
    I’m surprised the health authorities aren’t making him lose some weight first.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,238
    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    Who would dwell in a basement? Disgusting.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    edited 9:32AM

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    The vast majority of joint replacement surgery is later to weight and medical conditions. Often a combination of the two.

    The numbers for other categories - physical activity, upsetting Northern Irish Community Representatives etc are comparatively tiny.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    Battlebus said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    Who would dwell in a basement? Disgusting.
    Quite.

    It would be a cellar.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,131

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).
    Met one of my friends at the weekend, he has a big beer belly and awaiting a knee replacement. Don't know why he just doesn't lose the weight. I know he likes beer, but must like moving about more.
    I'm surprised NHS haven't made weight-loss a prerequisite of doing the replacement, a friend has been denied a hip replacement for years now.
    There's plenty of evidence out there that people will not make lifestyle changes to improve their health and well-being even when their quality of life is badly affected.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,238
    Roger said:
    Another chair warmer then. Comfortable with the fireside chat(!) but f'all use when it comes to making hard decisions. Can see why the Unions want him. He'll be played*.

    * My betting scenario is based on this and the economic difficulties coming down the line with Trump/Iran/Interest Rates/Debt. Enjoy your new PM.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,097

    Taz said:

    Dopermean said:

    Why would he have called a snap election? The plan is take over, turn the ship around, gain support and then by the time of the election go out there and win it.

    If you are a right minded person the mission is to stop Reform. Let him get on with it for everyone's benefit.

    To give him a mandate for new policies which contradict the 2024 manifesto.
    I'm not sure that is a problem when the manifesto was "change" and the rebellion against Starmer has been due to no change being delivered. As long as he doesn't go full Truss he'll be fine.
    Tax increases.
    So, Burnham calls an election to get voter support for a manifesto where he will raise taxes?

    Okaaaay....
    Taxes on other people are very popular, particularly millionaires.
    So that Burnhma Labour Manifesto: "We will raise taxes - but not on you!"

    Okaaaay...
    The bit about the manifesto that might get me voting Labour and getting millions of Lib Dem & Green tactical voters is a promise on electoral reform.

    The first general election held in the 2030s could be conducted under AV.
    What are the odds on when Lib Dem overtake Conservatives on seats?
    Ironically PR would be a disaster for the Lib Dems, they would never get more than 50 seats under PR and they would lose all their councils
    Another positive reason for PR.

    I’d suspect PR would be bad for all of the three main parties in the UK and there’d be an emergence of several other parties across the spectrum.
    I always understood the split to be this: (a) with FPTP you have a small number of large parties that are internal coalitions (Tory Wets, Harder Right Wing Thatcherites, or on the Left - Socialists, Communists and the soft Left). And it tends to produce decisive wins for one or other of the big ones.

    (b) With PR you get more, smaller parties that are more idealogically more narrow and these lead to coalitions AFTER the election.

    Arguably we have arrived at the point of (b) without a change to the voting system. This led to a ridiculously skewed vote share vs seats at the last election (Greens and LD had similar vote share but a very different seat outcome, Labour had a pretty poor vote share for a winning party but a huge majority of seats).

    So unless politics goes back to the larger party model, we really ought to change the voting method, or we will continue to see 'unfair' majorities. People broadly seemed happy in 2024 as it was the Tories getting kicked out and Change UK sorry Labour that came in, but if similar happens again favouring the racists then the country will not be a happy place.
    I spent 17 years in Denmark which has one of the most proportional electoral systems on the planet (d'Hondt at its maximum extent - anyone with 2% or more gets a proportionate share of seats). It actually works pretty well - what happens is that nearly all parties present themselves as supporting left, centrist or right coalitions, with more or less subtle variations of emphasis. A party which presented itself as indifferent to the coalition question doesn't exist. That enables the voter to express a preference for a broad coalition AND for the emphasis within that coalition.

    STV, which seems favoured in Anglophone countries, has the feature in electoral terms that it favours the most transfer-friendly option, which tends to be a nominally centrist party (in Britain typically the LibDems). I'd argue that this makes it less democratic (why should a nominally centrist party get a disproportionate share of seats?) but in practice it does tend to have a similar effect, except that small parties are squeezed out, making coalitions easier but also maintaining the under-representation of smaller opinions that is a major feature of our FPTP system. The effect is to reinforce the tendency to have large coalition parties, reducing voter choice but easing coalition-building.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,925
    Good morning, everyone.

    Pissing it down here.
  • Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    There’s a new-ish trend of people on Twitter going around filming people with the “notion” of “accountability” but really what they are doing is egging people on so they can get content to share and make money from.

    This happened the other day when an account decided to accuse a man of being a paedophile without any evidence. They just kept recording him even so much as to go into a booth with the curtains closed (which I’m sure is illegal but somebody else can correct me).

    These people are just there to make money. That’s all it is.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    It's all part of the grift.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    Not just George Floyd, remember the political classes demanding justice for Gangsta blud, Chris Kaba.

    https://x.com/rosbifenth10032/status/2061818590379102410?s=61

    The current chief of Hants Police at the time.

    https://x.com/garethdavies007/status/2060263159307379021?s=61

    Also happened with Hacksaw Mark Duggan.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    At least one of the videographers there is openly a propagandist for Restore, so its absolutely about encouragement.

    And what propaganda? 'We're the patriots defending women and white people. As demonstrated by beating our women and hurling bins and bricks at white police officers. Wot, you disagree? Why do you want your daughter raped and beaten by muslim invaders?'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371

    Good morning, everyone.

    Pissing it down here.

    And wildly windy with it too down here on the south coast.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,307
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Back to "teaching Stodge about oil prices" this morning.

    I read one of the reasons we have yet to plunge over the much touted abyss is "demand destruction" - now I was schooled by @Malmesbury about "inelasticity of demand" a few weeks ago but it does appear sales of fuel have been down about 10-12% since the Gulf crisis (do we call it a war?) began.

    There are other developments - it seems non-Gulf suppliers have been stepping up exports - the US is exporting more oil than ever and as our primary supplier of oil, it probably explains why we've avoided shortages thus far - the bluff old cynic in me might also argue this is one of the reasons for Washington being quite happy with the status quo. The more they export at higher prices, the better for American oil companies who I suspect (and I may be wrong) are supporters of the Trump Administration.

    In every war, the first thing you have to do is follow the money.

    We also have countries going through their Strategic Reserves which presumably vary considerably in size and therefore longevity but there will come a point when the choke on demand through Hormuz will impact as our old friends supply and demand come to the table. Now, it's summer and the demand for oil is presumably lower than it is in winter (do we rely on renewables to provide the leccy to keep the air conditioning going in the next heatwave?) though for the 15% who live south of the Equator winter is here but at a global level, what level does increased demand in New Zealand have?

    IF the reserves are depleted and demand cannot be suppressed much further due to inelasticity, the competition for what oil is out there from the US and others is likely to be intense leading to higher prices and presumably shortages so rather than stepping back from the abyss, the abyss is moving towards us....

    How am I doing?

    The war does appear to have had the unexpected happy side effect of forcing China to burn through it’s reserves of oil. Reserves that I don’t think were publicly known about & had presumably been built up in the expectation of a possible future attack on Taiwan.

    It looks like the war in the Gulf will force China to put any Taiwan related plans on hold for a year or two while they build up their reserves again. Or until they complete their transition to all-electric infrastructure which will also take years.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    Not just George Floyd, remember the political classes demanding justice for Gangsta blud, Chris Kaba.

    https://x.com/rosbifenth10032/status/2061818590379102410?s=61

    The current chief of Hants Police at the time.

    https://x.com/garethdavies007/status/2060263159307379021?s=61

    Also happened with Hacksaw Mark Duggan.
    The EMA riots - Electrical Merchandise Allowance!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    Dopermean said:

    ENERGY Secretary Ed Miliband yesterday backed plans that could see Brits eating fewer bacon sarnies as part of Labour’s Net Zero push.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/39291777/ed-miliband-labour-net-zero-bacon-sarnies/

    Ed is never going to live that down.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/jun/02/weight-loss-drugs-could-help-prevent-knee-replacements

    The symbiosis of all this is a golden policy opportunity, semaglutides all round!!!
    Lower meat and dairy consumption, fewer knee replacements, lower rates of diabetes and other obesity related diseases, people off the sick... CO2 emissions, NHS treatment costs and benefits bill all mitigated. The government should just put it in the water supply.
    There's an interesting contrast between the UK spending £12-15k on 100k knee replacements per annum (=1-1.5 bn UKP), which are mobility aids for partially self-inflicted conditions (no one forces you to run marathons or mountains), whilst if we suggested spending that much on wheelchairs for disabled people, which are also mobility aids, there would be a riot led by the Telegraph-reading basement dwellers of Tunbridge Wells.
    I wonder if they know if most knee replacements are activity related or overweight related?
    I can see NHS are likely to require weight-loss as first step and pre-requisite for a knee replacement.

    Also what proportion are gout-related arthritis which could have been avoided by uric acid reducing medication
    One of my friends used to be over 24 stone (he's 6 foot 5, but still). Diabetes and ozempic have seen him shrink. He used to have issues with his knees, but losing the first 6 stone cured all that. (Although likely there is still damage to his cartelidge).
    Met one of my friends at the weekend, he has a big beer belly and awaiting a knee replacement. Don't know why he just doesn't lose the weight. I know he likes beer, but must like moving about more.
    I'm surprised NHS haven't made weight-loss a prerequisite of doing the replacement, a friend has been denied a hip replacement for years now.
    There's plenty of evidence out there that people will not make lifestyle changes to improve their health and well-being even when their quality of life is badly affected.
    There’s a vicious circle, though. The more painful the joint, the more difficult to take the exercise needed to lose weight, and the greater the calorie reduction required.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,307
    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    Marshall McLuhan would probably have opinions about this.
  • Phil said:

    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    Marshall McLuhan would probably have opinions about this.
    Thought you were naming a former employer of mine at first
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Fuel now being rationed at some Moscow petrol stations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mneq3jp6lc2w

    St. Petersburg can't be far behind...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    At least one of the videographers there is openly a propagandist for Restore, so its absolutely about encouragement.

    And what propaganda? 'We're the patriots defending women and white people. As demonstrated by beating our women and hurling bins and bricks at white police officers. Wot, you disagree? Why do you want your daughter raped and beaten by muslim invaders?'
    Like the EDL, and what happened over Southport, many of these are former soccer hooligans who just like a ruck with Plod, like the ‘good old days’

    Any excuse.
    It does make me giggle slightly how many of the raise the swastika protect our women "patriots" are violent wife beaters. Why do they want to save "white women" from "muslim rapists", so that they can beat them black and blue themselves?

    Then we have how these "patriots" scream abuse in the face of old white men, attack the police, disrespect the flag by hanging it upside down from a lamppost or turning it into graffiti etc. Patriots? These people are thugs.

    There is a positive with them filming all this - the more that decent people see, the less they like it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Roger said:
    Like this bit 'Andy Burnham’s stint as health secretary in the final year of Gordon Brown’s government was not especially memorable, although one observation from a senior civil servant in the department at the time has stuck in my mind. Working for Burnham, I was told, felt like “revising for exams with a mate who might turn to you and say: ‘shall we sack this off for a bit and play football instead?’”
  • Be more South Korean Andrew Griffith says.

    State owned trains. On our way.

    Extremely expensive housing. Check.

    I think we already are

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    Not just George Floyd, remember the political classes demanding justice for Gangsta blud, Chris Kaba.

    https://x.com/rosbifenth10032/status/2061818590379102410?s=61

    The current chief of Hants Police at the time.

    https://x.com/garethdavies007/status/2060263159307379021?s=61

    Also happened with Hacksaw Mark Duggan.
    The worst thing about Kaba was the armed officers downing tools when the ludicrous murder charge was brought. If armed police don't feel they can do their job without being subject to pernicious prosecutions then we're in serious trouble. We don't have the right to bear arms as in the US and that means all the more responsibility for public safety rests with the police and our belief that they will enforce the law without fear or favour.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,097

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    The Green vote slide is marked in several polls - possibly due to the prospect of Burnham leadership.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Looking at this film from the ‘mostly peaceful’ events last night what struck me was the morons rioting were being filmed by rather a lot of people on their phones.

    At what stage are they considered to be more than just observers and egging this on ?

    At least one of the videographers there is openly a propagandist for Restore, so its absolutely about encouragement.

    And what propaganda? 'We're the patriots defending women and white people. As demonstrated by beating our women and hurling bins and bricks at white police officers. Wot, you disagree? Why do you want your daughter raped and beaten by muslim invaders?'
    Like the EDL, and what happened over Southport, many of these are former soccer hooligans who just like a ruck with Plod, like the ‘good old days’

    Any excuse.
    It does make me giggle slightly how many of the raise the swastika protect our women "patriots" are violent wife beaters. Why do they want to save "white women" from "muslim rapists", so that they can beat them black and blue themselves?

    Then we have how these "patriots" scream abuse in the face of old white men, attack the police, disrespect the flag by hanging it upside down from a lamppost or turning it into graffiti etc. Patriots? These people are thugs.

    There is a positive with them filming all this - the more that decent people see, the less they like it.
    It’s rather like the PIRA getting upset when other people shot joyriders.

    “That’s our job, we don’t want anyone nicking our jobs!”
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    All the World Cup Soccer games on a chart with times in BST, for all who are interested, it may be helpful.


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    The Green vote slide is marked in several polls - possibly due to the prospect of Burnham leadership.
    Probably just as much the realisation that their charismatic, interesting, fresh leader is also a charismatic, interesting, fresh nutter.
  • Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    The Green vote slide is marked in several polls - possibly due to the prospect of Burnham leadership.
    Zack declaring war on Jews.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Being 7% behind midterm isn't too bad.

    Both Government and the Opposition up a little in this week’s MiC voting intention as Reform lead Labour by 7

    ➡️ REF UK 29% (-1)
    🌹 LAB 22% (+2)
    🌳 CON 21% (+2)
    🔶 LIB DEM 12% (nc)
    🌍 GREEN 10% (-3)
    ❓OTH 2% (-1)
    🟡 SNP 2% (-1)


    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2062065038798577935

    The Green vote slide is marked in several polls - possibly due to the prospect of Burnham leadership.
    Possibly also due to, like Reform, people seeing what their policies are and them getting some scrutiny. Both Polanski and Farage don’t seem to like that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
    Good morning

    'I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever'

    I agree

    Farage and Yusaf were disgraceful yesterday

    I would just caution those who attack Kemi, there will always be a centre right party in this country and she gave the best TV interview to this shocking episode yesterday

    This country is better than Farage and his mob, and for that matter Polanski as well
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 579

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
    As un understand it the Hampshire Police have a policy which discriminates in favour of minorities. They are in the process of reviewing it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Kremlin: “The Special Military Operation is continuing precisely to prevent attacks like the attack on Saint Petersburg from occurring.”


    But it didn't prevent it...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Taz said:

    All the World Cup Soccer games on a chart with times in BST, for all who are interested, it may be helpful.


    Expanding it to 48 teams is too many, they are just introducing poorer teams. Who knows, if they keep it like this for next time even the likes of Italy might qualify.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,147
    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.
  • Southampton is a bunch of yobs throwing bins at the police and making a mess that somebody else will have to clear up.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,113
    edited 10:07AM
    Deleted
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Overreacting and underreacting are always wrong. The correct approach is to react precisely correctly.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,162
    Phil said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Back to "teaching Stodge about oil prices" this morning.

    I read one of the reasons we have yet to plunge over the much touted abyss is "demand destruction" - now I was schooled by @Malmesbury about "inelasticity of demand" a few weeks ago but it does appear sales of fuel have been down about 10-12% since the Gulf crisis (do we call it a war?) began.

    There are other developments - it seems non-Gulf suppliers have been stepping up exports - the US is exporting more oil than ever and as our primary supplier of oil, it probably explains why we've avoided shortages thus far - the bluff old cynic in me might also argue this is one of the reasons for Washington being quite happy with the status quo. The more they export at higher prices, the better for American oil companies who I suspect (and I may be wrong) are supporters of the Trump Administration.

    In every war, the first thing you have to do is follow the money.

    We also have countries going through their Strategic Reserves which presumably vary considerably in size and therefore longevity but there will come a point when the choke on demand through Hormuz will impact as our old friends supply and demand come to the table. Now, it's summer and the demand for oil is presumably lower than it is in winter (do we rely on renewables to provide the leccy to keep the air conditioning going in the next heatwave?) though for the 15% who live south of the Equator winter is here but at a global level, what level does increased demand in New Zealand have?

    IF the reserves are depleted and demand cannot be suppressed much further due to inelasticity, the competition for what oil is out there from the US and others is likely to be intense leading to higher prices and presumably shortages so rather than stepping back from the abyss, the abyss is moving towards us....

    How am I doing?

    The war does appear to have had the unexpected happy side effect of forcing China to burn through it’s reserves of oil. Reserves that I don’t think were publicly known about & had presumably been built up in the expectation of a possible future attack on Taiwan.

    It looks like the war in the Gulf will force China to put any Taiwan related plans on hold for a year or two while they build up their reserves again. Or until they complete their transition to all-electric infrastructure which will also take years.
    Here's some facts with graphs showing some renewables good news and how much China is involved in that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1MGJUaxQPk
  • @TheScreamingEagles @rcs1000 the website I am afraid is still frequently inaccessible
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126

    Be more South Korean Andrew Griffith says.

    State owned trains. On our way.

    Extremely expensive housing. Check.

    I think we already are

    I have been to South Korea and specifically Busan and it was an eye opener

    If you imagine the UK at its height of shipbuilding then you see all that and much more in Busan

    Sailing across the South China Sea we saw a huge ship with the bow section of a container ship being taken to Busan for assembly

    The whole place is amazing and shows what we have lost over decades
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Was there a mob here that threw bins at the police?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    edited 10:13AM
    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    No, it wasn't fine. You appear to be saying that racist thugs have the right to riot and attack the police because of a load of previous aggro from another group.

    Edit - also, the wave of protests were anti-racism. These riots are pro-racism. You want to support racism as balance for the people who oppose it?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452
    scampi25 said:

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
    As un understand it the Hampshire Police have a policy which discriminates in favour of minorities. They are in the process of reviewing it.
    Really? Can you provide a link or other evidence of that?
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    No, it wasn't fine. You appear to be saying that racist thugs have the right to riot and attack the police because of a load of previous aggro from another group.
    Andy dropped off the waggon long ago.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    scampi25 said:

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
    As un understand it the Hampshire Police have a policy which discriminates in favour of minorities. They are in the process of reviewing it.
    Indeed they do.

    This is it

    https://x.com/iancharris/status/2062092994707148965?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Was there a mob here that threw bins at the police?
    It was all ‘mostly peaceful’ so no issue.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    No, it wasn't fine. You appear to be saying that racist thugs have the right to riot and attack the police because of a load of previous aggro from another group.

    Edit - also, the wave of protests were anti-racism. These riots are pro-racism. You want to support racism as balance for the people who oppose it?
    No, I think we should stop infantilising the black population. A lot of chickens are coming home to roost six years after BLM.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789

    Southampton is a bunch of yobs throwing bins at the police and making a mess that somebody else will have to clear up.

    There are worse things that can happen than throwing bins at the police. And your words imply a generalisation about the city. I don't imagine most of its 248,000 residents (last census) were involved.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    No, it wasn't fine. You appear to be saying that racist thugs have the right to riot and attack the police because of a load of previous aggro from another group.
    Andy dropped off the waggon long ago.
    Not specific to him, but the argument the fascist right make is thus:

    All of these people protesting against racism are discriminatory against us racists. So we should be allowed to have a big racist march and attack the police otherwise it's too tier. You let them take the knee as a symbol against us, so we should be allowed to throw bricks at the police.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    Sounds like a nasty one, sadly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3pdv1gl41o

    "Royal Navy helicopter crashes into field"
  • “I’ve driven four and a half hours to get here,” says Mobster 53. Do these people not have jobs?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    Taz said:

    All the World Cup Soccer games on a chart with times in BST, for all who are interested, it may be helpful.


    Cool chart.

    One disadvantage of the tournament being so spread out, is the wide range of match times. I’m three hours ahead of the UK, so the first two England matches are midnight starts, and more matches are get-up-early than stay-up-late.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916
    Interesting new preprint: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/zbmp3_v2 "The Electoral Risks of Accommodating the Radical Right. Evidence from the British Labour Government"

    Social democratic parties have increasingly adopted restrictive immigration rhetoric in response to radical right challengers’ electoral successes. The consequences of accommodation remain contested. This paper leverages a pre-registered quasi-experimental design exploiting within-individual variation from as-good-as-random exposure to UK Labour leader Keir Starmer’s “Island of Strangers” speech – a major rhetorical turn toward anti-immigration positions. We find that the speech altered aggregate perceptions of Labour’s position on immigration and increased the salience of the issue, but was unsuccessful in boosting support for Labour. Instead, the anti-immigration rhetoric yielded no significant increase in Labour support, significantly reduced Starmer’s personal favorability, and there is suggestive evidence that it benefited the radical right party Reform UK. These findings indicate that social democratic parties may have more to lose than to gain by contesting elections on the terrain of their radical right competitors.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,113
    edited 10:20AM

    Southampton is a bunch of yobs throwing bins at the police and making a mess that somebody else will have to clear up.

    There are worse things that can happen than throwing bins at the police. And your words imply a generalisation about the city. I don't imagine most of its 248,000 residents (last census) were involved.
    I meant the action last night, obviously. You’ve read something I didn’t say. Attacking the police is utterly disgraceful. These people don’t give a toss.

    Being from Hampshire and growing up there, I have nothing but a fondness for the place. It is a shame to see it taken over last night by mobsters and likely criminals who aren’t even from the south let alone Hampshire.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    No, it wasn't fine. You appear to be saying that racist thugs have the right to riot and attack the police because of a load of previous aggro from another group.
    Andy dropped off the waggon long ago.
    Not specific to him, but the argument the fascist right make is thus:

    All of these people protesting against racism are discriminatory against us racists. So we should be allowed to have a big racist march and attack the police otherwise it's too tier. You let them take the knee as a symbol against us, so we should be allowed to throw bricks at the police.
    I watched the footage and it’s exactly the sort of people I knew would be there.

    Tattoos, virtually all men, throwing things at the police. They’re not there to protest, they are there to riot.
  • And once again I say: social media is the worst invention in history.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,057
    In Myers Briggs terms:

    I see Starmer as The Inspector ISTJ.
    He is a detail-oriented, pragmatic problem-solver who values hard data, precedents, and evidence over lofty, abstract grand visions. He approaches issues through the lens of incremental, concrete adjustments rather than ideological theories. His decision-making framework is analytical, highly objective, and clinical. He values rules, frameworks, and process, earning him a reputation as a "technocrat" who focuses on competence rather than emotional rhetoric.

    I see Blair as The Inspiring Communicator ENFJ.
    He possesses powerful charisma and his communication style relies heavily on metaphors, overarching vision, and emotional persuasion. His problem is that many think he has been captured by wealthy powerful players and now distrust him.

    I see Burnham as The Consul ESFJ.
    He shows deep empathy, approachable warmth, and a strong sense of community loyalty. Unlike Blair's grand abstract concepts, Burnham focuses on tangible, practical realities affecting everyday people, such as localised public transport (the Bee Network) and local social care.
    However he has the ability to craft a passion-driven alternative political narrative for the "North," demonstrating a broader regional vision which may be transferable to the whole nation.

    Bottom line: Burnham might turn out to be another Blair - but without the baggage - and with more attention to detail, (but not as limited by process as Starmer).
  • Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Was there a mob here that threw bins at the police?
    It was all ‘mostly peaceful’ so no issue.
    I’m sure it wasn’t all peaceful. And anyone attacking the police should have been rounded up and arrested.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,624
    carnforth said:

    Sounds like a nasty one, sadly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3pdv1gl41o

    "Royal Navy helicopter crashes into field"

    Three dead.

    They still haven't published the BoI from the September 2024 Merlin crash.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Was there a mob here that threw bins at the police?
    It was all ‘mostly peaceful’ so no issue.
    I’m sure it wasn’t all peaceful. And anyone attacking the police should have been rounded up and arrested.
    No bins were thrown. So all good.

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470?s=61
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    @TheScreamingEagles @rcs1000 the website I am afraid is still frequently inaccessible

    Is it?
  • https://x.com/JackHadders/status/2061880965719335104/video/1

    Watch this and tell me you think this policeman deserves to be talked to in this way.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    And once again I say: social media is the worst invention in history.

    Is that you, @Andy_JS ?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Myers Briggs (WANK)

    Pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Protesters urged not to ‘overreact’ to Henry Nowak murder"

    https://www.thetimes.com/

    But overreacting to George Floyd was fine.

    Was there a mob here that threw bins at the police?
    It was all ‘mostly peaceful’ so no issue.
    I’m sure it wasn’t all peaceful. And anyone attacking the police should have been rounded up and arrested.
    No bins were thrown. So all good.

    https://x.com/bbcnews/status/1269574979680702470?s=61
    No it’s not all good.
  • One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    @TheScreamingEagles @rcs1000 the website I am afraid is still frequently inaccessible

    Is it?
    The people who can't access it can't tell us if they can access it or not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,137

    @TheScreamingEagles @rcs1000 the website I am afraid is still frequently inaccessible

    Is it?
    The people who can't access it can't tell us if they can access it or not.
    Comments don't load on my mobile, even if I simulate a desktop site on it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet

    Fighting at the footie or because someone looked at them the wrong way in pub.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,254
    Taz said:

    scampi25 said:

    eek said:

    Interesting how yesterday morning our PB leftists thought that the Nowak murder was a non-issue.

    Only for the politicians and media to talk of little else the rest of the day.

    Perhaps the lesson being that out own little social bubbles are not necessarily representative of the country as a whole.

    Any evidence to back that up - everyone I remember has pointed out it’s a big problem
    Well we can start with this exchange:

    DougSeal said:

    Bodycam footage of the arrest of Henry Nowak has been released. It's extremely harrowing to watch.

    The difference between Starmer's lack of interest and his posturing obsession about George Floyd seems to have broken thorough.

    I've heard this contrast mentioned by three different people during the last few days.
    And I by none. Broken through is a relative concept it seems.
    It can be.

    The people I know being predominantly of northern wwc background rather than southern middle class leftists.

    Ever wondered why Labour is struggling so much with the first group ?

    A few echoes of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy - I remember there were middle class leftist PBers who were certain that it would be a vote winner for Labour. It wasn't among wwc voters.
    Or perhaps this one:
    kinabalu said:

    The likening of this case to George Floyd is just more of the usual.

    Der der der der ... der da.

    "And our next contestant. What's your name and occupation please?"

    "The online right. Internet pundit."

    "And your specialist subject?"

    "Ludicrously false equivalence."

    "Ok. Your two minutes on ludicrously false equivalence starts NOW."

    I don't know what point kinabalu is trying to make there (police behaviour?) but it feels desperate. If Henry Nowak was black the focus would very much be on comparisons with George Floyd and I doubt he would be claiming false equivalence.

    What he doesn't get is that most people aren't focused on politics. Their instincts are first and foremost humanistic not ideological. You see someone claiming they can't breathe being violently restrained by police and then dying. It's harrowing. The only people who don't feel similarly over both situations are racists for whom only black or white victims count.

    I should say some of those sympathetic to Henry don't like seeing him categorised alongside a violent criminal.
    You can't help but feel desperately sorry for Henry and his family for the mistakes the police made at the scene, although AIUI they didn't contribute to his death. Obviously the police were in a difficult situation where they were lied to initially, but it seems like it took them too long to figure out the reality of the situation. They have a difficult job though and it is inevitable that they will make mistakes. They are not infalible.
    Whether this is evidence of systemic anti white bias is a different question. I don't see how that question can be answered by looking at a single incident. Bias is only really evident across a pattern of behaviour. Does Hampshire police have a consistent pattern of discriminating against white people? I don't know the answer to that question but I think it is unlikely a priori. Discrimination against people who constitute the overwhelming majority of a population is generally rather rare, for obvious reasons.
    Incidentally, I think that Farage’s response to this, perhaps more than anything else, demonstrates he is unfit to govern this country. I would be genuinely fearful for our future if he were ever PM.
    As un understand it the Hampshire Police have a policy which discriminates in favour of minorities. They are in the process of reviewing it.
    Indeed they do.

    This is it

    https://x.com/iancharris/status/2062092994707148965?s=61
    Now quote the bits that are discriminatory.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Barnesian said:

    In Myers Briggs terms:

    I see Starmer as The Inspector ISTJ.
    He is a detail-oriented, pragmatic problem-solver who values hard data, precedents, and evidence over lofty, abstract grand visions. He approaches issues through the lens of incremental, concrete adjustments rather than ideological theories. His decision-making framework is analytical, highly objective, and clinical. He values rules, frameworks, and process, earning him a reputation as a "technocrat" who focuses on competence rather than emotional rhetoric.

    I see Blair as The Inspiring Communicator ENFJ.
    He possesses powerful charisma and his communication style relies heavily on metaphors, overarching vision, and emotional persuasion. His problem is that many think he has been captured by wealthy powerful players and now distrust him.

    I see Burnham as The Consul ESFJ.
    He shows deep empathy, approachable warmth, and a strong sense of community loyalty. Unlike Blair's grand abstract concepts, Burnham focuses on tangible, practical realities affecting everyday people, such as localised public transport (the Bee Network) and local social care.
    However he has the ability to craft a passion-driven alternative political narrative for the "North," demonstrating a broader regional vision which may be transferable to the whole nation.

    Bottom line: Burnham might turn out to be another Blair - but without the baggage - and with more attention to detail, (but not as limited by process as Starmer).

    I did Myers Briggs twice. Got ISTJ twice. Second time out I did question this as pretty much the entire commercial department ended up as ISTJ which was obviously not true when you looked at us. So I take much of this profiling bollocks as a useful tool for consultants wanting to extract cash from big businesses but otherwise of little value.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Site has been perfectly fine for me on my mobile. Can load desktop version no problem too. Bit of a mystery.
  • @TheScreamingEagles @rcs1000 the website I am afraid is still frequently inaccessible

    Is it?
    Yes; it’s why you see duplicate posts because the first API call appears to fail.
  • dixiedean said:

    Site has been perfectly fine for me on my mobile. Can load desktop version no problem too. Bit of a mystery.

    Probably depends on routing
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351

    “I’ve driven four and a half hours to get here,” says Mobster 53. Do these people not have jobs?

    Take a wild guess.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331

    https://x.com/JackHadders/status/2061880965719335104/video/1

    Watch this and tell me you think this policeman deserves to be talked to in this way.

    Proper coppers used to fit up the darkies, let the toms get murdered, and let off white men when they had a "domestic" with the wife. Why can't we get back there say the patriots as they hurl bricks at the coppers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,587
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    Reassuring the bond markets going well

    ‘ Andy Burnham cancelled a call with hedge fund managers this week at short notice, in a stumbling start to the Labour leadership favourite’s efforts to reassure nervous City of London investors about his borrowing plans ft.trib.al/zb8P4xg’


    https://x.com/ft/status/2062098841487147385?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet

    As well as climate change ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Nigelb said:
    FFS1! Genius.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755
    A new report by Pensions UK about pension provision

    minimum retirement lifestyle (82% of the working population are predicted to hit this)
    • £13,900pa for a one-person household
    • £22,500pa for a two-person household
    moderate retirement lifestyle (23% of the working population are predicted to hit this)
    • £32,700pa for a one-person household
    • £45,400pa for a two-person household
    comfortable retirement lifestyle (9% of the working population are predicted to hit this)
    • £45,400pa for a one-person household
    • £62,700pa for a two-person household
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3928m30v89o

    (narrator: viewcode is on course to get the minimum when state retirement pension is taken into account, but not before.)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    I don't know whether anyone remembers 'The Paulsgrove Estate'? It became famous for the ignorance of what was thought to be an underclass in the UK. In a small way it contributed to the ending of The News of the World and other horseshit produced by the Murdoch Stables .......

    It was a time of vigilantism......

    There was a paedophile story which had been ramped up by the News of the World which culminated in an army of pitchfork carriers daubing an innocent persons house with the word PAEDO. They had heard it was owned by a paediatrician.

    The owner had to move house and for several years afterwards 'The Paulsgrove Estate ' became a byword for the most ignorant of the ignorant. As a country we became a laughing stock. Even during a housing shortage no one wanted to live on the Paulsgrove Estate...


    And the bad news is thanks to Farage and his followers that's where we are heading for again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    Nigelb said:
    Will surely walk it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673

    One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet

    Probably going to watch Millwall and West Ham, among other teams.
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