Off on a tangent, but is that helmet on the front guy serving any purpose at all, other than decoration. I guess if something fell directly from above it might help, but it's not going to do anything useful in a crash.
It's bizarre that cyclists are not required to wear effective head protection, but moped riders legally must have an approved safety helmet.
If you come off, that chunky curb stone your head hits doesn't care what you were riding...
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I, too, would like an answer to this question. The level of dislike for Starmer seems entirely out of proportion with anything he or his party have actually done.
Maybe it’s because he’s so bland that people project things onto him? If you’re seen as standing for nothing in particular then you end up with what’s said about you by your political enemies being the things that come to mind when people think of you. As party leader you’re inevitably held responsible for all the bad stuff & if you have no presence to counter that you end up being the Christmas tree on which everyone gets to hang their personal hates.
Thoughts?
The left blame him because he was in the room when Corbyn shot himself in the foot.
The right blame him because he was in the room when Boris shot himself in the groin.
Everyone hates him because, like the rest of them, he doesn't have a working solution to our problems. And he's crap at politics, and has an annoying voice.
Worst of all, he's the least bad option right now.
The Centrists hate him because they thought all was needed was that a sensible Labour person took over as PM, and it turned out that wasn't the case.
My perception is that the hate is mostly coming from the left / right - current Green & Reform voters? Centrists just find him uninspiring.
The focus groups and polling consistently report he really does have a unique positiion that he is disliked through to hated across the board not just far left or right. Unlike even Boris post partygate, he has no fan club. He appears to have magic ability to make people really hate him other things most other politicians would be fine. The polling companies have reported even when they have asked what about.decision on Iran, the public at best react with yeap he got that right before then ranting about his other things.
The reverse Midas touch! Just shows what a mistake it was by the Labour right to appoint him their anointed successor when he’d never really been tested as a politician. Now he’s been tested & found wanting it’s too late - they’re stuck with him.
I think Reform will be relieved more than anything. The campaign saw the reveal that Farage really took a massive bung. I don't rubbish him entirely for that - I am sure he had longstanding views about the freedom of bitcoin that aligned with the bung, but that is still what it is and it could have been disastrous.
They got past it partly due to a clever shitpost (migrant detention centres for Green areas), and because people wanted to kick Labour. They are lucky lucky lucky.
Didn’t you attack Starmer for getting free glasses
I'm at the Camden count. We've just had the turnout announced at 48%, which is high. Hard to know results yet, but I think Greens doing well. Lots of split voting. Saw someone vote for 2 Greens and me as their only LibDem vote. Good to have a personal vote!
I hope that's not because you've been projecting as a quirky populist charlatan.
I just do not understand what Starmer is still doing standing there.
I guess I’ll have to dump my source, I sincerely thought he’d quit.
I didn't think he would quit, and still don't - but be fair to yourself and your source, Horse, we've only had about a third of the results through yet. If he's going to quit qif the results are bad he will at least wait until most of the results are in. He'll be clinging on to the hope that once the big cities are in things won't look so bleak.
The message from Northern council results swinging sharply to Reform echoes that from County Durham last year. To win these communities back Labour needs to: - focus on tackling the cost of living crisis - not backslide on tackling illegal immigration - reindustrialise - invest in high quality jobs and transport infrastructure in left behind communities - including ensuring the long-awaited Defence Investment Plan has a regional jobs impact - deepen initiatives like Pride in Place to regenerate high streets and town centres - tackle ASB, drug crime, shoplifting and offroad bikes - be pragmatic about net zero policies so that they don't cause jobs to be lost, whether that's allowing the 2 new oil and gas fields to proceed, or ensuring the ZEV mandate works for the car industry
Luke makes some good points but it’s all pointless with Starmer still there
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I, too, would like an answer to this question. The level of dislike for Starmer seems entirely out of proportion with anything he or his party have actually done.
Maybe it’s because he’s so bland that people project things onto him? If you’re seen as standing for nothing in particular then you end up with what’s said about you by your political enemies being the things that come to mind when people think of you. As party leader you’re inevitably held responsible for all the bad stuff & if you have no presence to counter that you end up being the Christmas tree on which everyone gets to hang their personal hates.
Thoughts?
The left blame him because he was in the room when Corbyn shot himself in the foot.
The right blame him because he was in the room when Boris shot himself in the groin.
Everyone hates him because, like the rest of them, he doesn't have a working solution to our problems. And he's crap at politics, and has an annoying voice.
Worst of all, he's the least bad option right now.
The Centrists hate him because they thought all was needed was that a sensible Labour person took over as PM, and it turned out that wasn't the case.
My perception is that the hate is mostly coming from the left / right - current Green & Reform voters? Centrists just find him uninspiring.
The focus groups and polling consistently report he really does have a unique positiion that he is disliked through to hated across the board not just far left or right. Unlike even Boris post partygate, he has no fan club. He appears to have magic ability to make people really hate him other things most other politicians would be fine. The polling companies have reported even when they have asked what about.decision on Iran, the public at best react with yeap he got that right before then ranting about his other things.
I detect an 'unpopular boy at school' thing in the mix. There's a bandwagon. Throwing around insults about him, repeating what they've heard, competing to do better ones, has become a kind of national hobby. They think it's grounded in reality but it largely isn't. A lot of it is herd behaviour.
That would be true if I didn’t keep getting personal accounts from people THAT ACTUALLY KNOW HIM that he’s exactly as dislikeable in private. It sounds mean to keep repeating it, it does feel like school bullying, but it is also true
Note how he seems to have no friends in Labour. Not one. He has no loyal cadres. No network of allies. He has favoured aides that he throws under buses
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I, too, would like an answer to this question. The level of dislike for Starmer seems entirely out of proportion with anything he or his party have actually done.
Maybe it’s because he’s so bland that people project things onto him? If you’re seen as standing for nothing in particular then you end up with what’s said about you by your political enemies being the things that come to mind when people think of you. As party leader you’re inevitably held responsible for all the bad stuff & if you have no presence to counter that you end up being the Christmas tree on which everyone gets to hang their personal hates.
Thoughts?
The left blame him because he was in the room when Corbyn shot himself in the foot.
The right blame him because he was in the room when Boris shot himself in the groin.
Everyone hates him because, like the rest of them, he doesn't have a working solution to our problems. And he's crap at politics, and has an annoying voice.
Worst of all, he's the least bad option right now.
The Centrists hate him because they thought all was needed was that a sensible Labour person took over as PM, and it turned out that wasn't the case.
My perception is that the hate is mostly coming from the left / right - current Green & Reform voters? Centrists just find him uninspiring.
The focus groups and polling consistently report he really does have a unique positiion that he is disliked through to hated across the board not just far left or right. Unlike even Boris post partygate, he has no fan club. He appears to have magic ability to make people really hate him other things most other politicians would be fine. The polling companies have reported even when they have asked what about.decision on Iran, the public at best react with yeap he got that right before then ranting about his other things.
I detect an 'unpopular boy at school' thing in the mix. There's a bandwagon. Throwing around insults about him, repeating what they've heard, competing to do better ones, has become a kind of national hobby. They think it's grounded in reality but it largely isn't. A lot of it is herd behaviour.
That would be true if I didn’t keep getting personal accounts from people THAT ACTUALLY KNOW HIM that he’s exactly as dislikeable in private. It sounds mean to keep repeating it, it does feel like school bullying, but it is also true
Note how he seems to have no friends in Labour. Not one. He has no loyal cadres. No network of allies. He has favoured aides that he throws under buses
Politically awkward moment of the day on the BBC as Victoria Atkins says she hasn't spoken to Robert Jenrick since she supported his failed bid to lead the Conservative Party.
Very telling and she handled it well. Jenrick came over very badly and rather contemptible. Like Victoria I backed Jenrick for the leadership of the Conservative Party, and like her, as this moment showed so well, I was wrong. I know Kemi was glad to see the back of him with hindsight as suddenly the private Shadow Cabinet discussions stopped being leaked to Reform. He really is an arsehole.
It is a fact the Conservative structure for selecting Parliamentary Candidates could be gamed, particularly by minor public school alumni. If there is to be an end of this trauma then at least the Jenricks will have gone. That must be good.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
Have to say my wrong 'un detector is flashing red when Farage is on screen.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I, too, would like an answer to this question. The level of dislike for Starmer seems entirely out of proportion with anything he or his party have actually done.
Maybe it’s because he’s so bland that people project things onto him? If you’re seen as standing for nothing in particular then you end up with what’s said about you by your political enemies being the things that come to mind when people think of you. As party leader you’re inevitably held responsible for all the bad stuff & if you have no presence to counter that you end up being the Christmas tree on which everyone gets to hang their personal hates.
Thoughts?
The left blame him because he was in the room when Corbyn shot himself in the foot.
The right blame him because he was in the room when Boris shot himself in the groin.
Everyone hates him because, like the rest of them, he doesn't have a working solution to our problems. And he's crap at politics, and has an annoying voice.
Worst of all, he's the least bad option right now.
The Centrists hate him because they thought all was needed was that a sensible Labour person took over as PM, and it turned out that wasn't the case.
My perception is that the hate is mostly coming from the left / right - current Green & Reform voters? Centrists just find him uninspiring.
The focus groups and polling consistently report he really does have a unique positiion that he is disliked through to hated across the board not just far left or right. Unlike even Boris post partygate, he has no fan club. He appears to have magic ability to make people really hate him other things most other politicians would be fine. The polling companies have reported even when they have asked what about.decision on Iran, the public at best react with yeap he got that right before then ranting about his other things.
I detect an 'unpopular boy at school' thing in the mix. There's a bandwagon. Throwing around insults about him, repeating what they've heard, competing to do better ones, has become a kind of national hobby. They think it's grounded in reality but it largely isn't. A lot of it is herd behaviour.
I think the "present but absent" Starmer image of being a bit "wallpaper" comes from wanting to be a functionary in a position which is too prominent to be a functionary.
I think the obsessive hate/abuse is more normal politics - the partisan media sources are treating him as they did Kinnock, with the primary objective being to go for Starmer rather than report the news, and any suitable incident or story becomes such a vehicle.
For the Conservatives I think it is exacerbated because they have almost nothing to say on their own account, and still have not looked into / taken responsibility for what they did to wreck the country, so attacking Starmer is all they have left other than a Giant Sucking Sound.
For Reform, they have always been a marketing organisation which embraces both sides of most poicies at different times, so that comes with the territory.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I, too, would like an answer to this question. The level of dislike for Starmer seems entirely out of proportion with anything he or his party have actually done.
Maybe it’s because he’s so bland that people project things onto him? If you’re seen as standing for nothing in particular then you end up with what’s said about you by your political enemies being the things that come to mind when people think of you. As party leader you’re inevitably held responsible for all the bad stuff & if you have no presence to counter that you end up being the Christmas tree on which everyone gets to hang their personal hates.
Thoughts?
The left blame him because he was in the room when Corbyn shot himself in the foot.
The right blame him because he was in the room when Boris shot himself in the groin.
Everyone hates him because, like the rest of them, he doesn't have a working solution to our problems. And he's crap at politics, and has an annoying voice.
Worst of all, he's the least bad option right now.
The Centrists hate him because they thought all was needed was that a sensible Labour person took over as PM, and it turned out that wasn't the case.
My perception is that the hate is mostly coming from the left / right - current Green & Reform voters? Centrists just find him uninspiring.
The focus groups and polling consistently report he really does have a unique positiion that he is disliked through to hated across the board not just far left or right. Unlike even Boris post partygate, he has no fan club. He appears to have magic ability to make people really hate him other things most other politicians would be fine. The polling companies have reported even when they have asked what about.decision on Iran, the public at best react with yeap he got that right before then ranting about his other things.
I detect an 'unpopular boy at school' thing in the mix. There's a bandwagon. Throwing around insults about him, repeating what they've heard, competing to do better ones, has become a kind of national hobby. They think it's grounded in reality but it largely isn't. A lot of it is herd behaviour.
Err....
He has pissed off the Left, by not doing lefty things. They have left en-masse for the Greens. A chunk of the old style Labour voters think Labour no longer represents them. So has gone Reform. He hasn't got much done that the Centrists like.
The problem is "Where is the upside of Starmer?" - as @NickPalmer said (above) the Left stuck with Blair because he delivered on things like more money for schools & hospitals, despite hammering the ultra-left (Militant etc).
I think Reform will be relieved more than anything. The campaign saw the reveal that Farage really took a massive bung. I don't rubbish him entirely for that - I am sure he had longstanding views about the freedom of bitcoin that aligned with the bung, but that is still what it is and it could have been disastrous.
They got past it partly due to a clever shitpost (migrant detention centres for Green areas), and because people wanted to kick Labour. They are lucky lucky lucky.
I expect Farage has long standing views about the freedom of bitcoin to be swiftly converted into cold hard bank deposits in currency underwritten by the central bank of a stable country.
You're going to hear a lot about how Reform is now a national party.
It's not true, as John Curtice sets out here. They're doing very well in areas that voted strongly for Brexit and not very well at all in areas that voted strongly Remain
Their base is ageing Leavers. It's a good base because there are lots of them in enough seats to win a GE. Not a majority (no chance) but largest party. The Brexit divide is still key in our politics.
I note the Conservatives have taken Westminster much as expected and have held Bexley perhaps with more ease than some imagined.
What we are seeing (from a Conservative and LD perspective) is both parties retreating to areas of strength and fortifying those in terms of local council seats. I suspect that will mean it will be as hard for the Conservatives to make gains from the Lib Dems at the next GE as it will for the LDs to make gains from the Conservatives.
There are, however, growing areas where neither party is relevant.
With almost all results in, the Tory vote in Bexley is now 37% - down from 51% last time. Reform is at 32%, from nowhere, and Labour on 19% down from 44%, with the Greens picking up 7%.
That the Tories have 29 seats (for 37%) to Reform's 7 (for 32%) is down to the voting system.
Arguably it's also down to Reform being politically naive and over confident and thinking they can win everywhere rather than targetting specific Wards.
My impression is that the Reform campaign relied heavily upon national mailshots from Farage, presumably funded by some of the big donations Reform is getting nationally, and the beyond that it was entirely up to individual candidates whether they made any effort in their own ward. I don't sense there's an effective campaiging organisation in between Reform HQ and individual wards - at constituency or council level - of the sort that the established parties will have.
It will be interesting to see whether Reform manages to build effective local organisations, and whether enough of their members are up for all the grunt admin and committee work on wet winter evenings that it will take to build and maintain this?
Pretty much the case in this bit of Romford. National mailshots from Nigel, and ANDREW ROSINDELL endorses these candidates, who said very little.
Anyway, they have a mandate, but for what? Hexit ain't gonna happen, so they now have another council that is both frugal and bust.
Good luck, chaps.
Same for me, two directly addressed letters, one from Big Nige and one from Rozzer pushing Hexit, one generic leaflet on national issues and nothing about the candidates except their names and a photo. They did canvas once early on but I had nothing from them in the last 3 weeks of the campaign. Contrast with the RAs who did a leaflet a week throughout, and narrowly lost by roughly 2200-1800. The Tories lost 75% of their vote compared to last time, Labour half.
On the dislike of Starmer front, surprised no one has yet mentioned the pursuit of elderly servicemen through the courts whilst rubbing shoulders with (former) terrorists if various stripes. Not gone down too well in my native Plymouth.
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
"Scotland swapped a Secretary of State and six ministers for a billion-pound parliament, a six-billion-pound quango state and 25 years of constitutional psychodrama. Hard to call that progress."
Of course it is HILARIOUS to see the Corbyn faction call for Sir Keir to go and for them to suddenly understand polling when they did nothing but ignore it whilst he was there (me included).
Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall · 1m Talk Reform could even win a maj on council, which would be huge. By far their biggest council win in history
This is clearly Labour ramping so their results don't look so awful.
Not a cat in hells Brum will deliver majority Reform council.
The only Reform friendly areas of Brum would be in the SW bit of the city (i.e. Longbridge, Northfield, Weoley Castle). The rest of the city is just too diverse.
Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall · 1m Talk Reform could even win a maj on council, which would be huge. By far their biggest council win in history
I'm not up to date on the status of Birmingham City Council - what powers do they have compared to the West Midlands Region, and the Mayor?
Where does the Local Highways Authority sit, for example?
That would be astonishing if you consider they won't win any seats in the Muslim majority wards. That would mean having to win current Tory seats in Egbaston and Sutton Coldfield
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I don't think there's a single reason.
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution, persecuting Northern Ireland veterans and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
Hackney's new Green mayor Zoe Garbett suggests Labour lost because it was 'putting profit before the planet and supporting genocide'
Great the loons are in power
Have the Greens give any indications at all what we could possibly do about Gaza? There's only one country in the world who can do anything about what Netanyahu is doing, and it isn't us.
Hackney's new Green mayor Zoe Garbett suggests Labour lost because it was 'putting profit before the planet and supporting genocide'
Great the loons are in power
Have the Greens give any indications at all what we could possibly do about Gaza? There's only one country in the world who can do anything about what Netanyahu is doing, and it isn't us.
Reality and the Greens aren’t a match made in heaven !
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I don't think there's a single reason.
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution, persecuting Northern Ireland veterans and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
Reculver is satisfyingly noomy anyway, just standing in the ditch (the former sea bed that separated Thanet as an isle) looking up at the ruined Saxon church and pondering various kingly to and fros.
When we visited many years ago it was a very good 20 minute end of day antidote to a fine, traditional knickerbocker glory in Herne Bay.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
LOL The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I don't think there's a single reason.
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution, persecuting Northern Ireland veterans and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
And everyone hates him over Mandelson.
Mandelson I will simply never understand. He apparently wanted Osborne yet was convinced to not go with him.
So some of his own instincts are not terrible but he is always convinced otherwise. He is a weak-willed man with terrible judgment.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I don't think there's a single reason.
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
I never cared for him, having met him I didn't support him for the Labour leadership. But I don't get the hate. He's just not very good at politics. I think it's the tenor of the times, not helped by social media. People need to get outside and listen to the birds singing.
It could well be at close of play in England that all parties are secretly disappointed to some extent.
And at the same time heartened. Reform established as the main party of the right. Greens as a serious player on the left. The Cons still very much in the game. Incremental progress for the LDs. Worst fears not transpiring for Labour.
Main takeout: It's 5 party politics now and that's official.
Reform are not established as you put it. Let's see what happens at the GE....
It gives me no pleasure to say it but this is a big positive step for them. No longer just a newbie Farage vehicle topping the polls, now the leading party of the right embedded via real votes in local government across large parts of the country. They have captured most of that voter coalition that delivered Brexit and Johnson's 2019 election win. It's a strong position.
Commendable honesty, unlike some of your lefty cousins on here. You get it precisely right. Farage will be chuffed with this result. Maybe very chuffed. Reform are now the main right wing party across most of the country. Not in polls, in actual votes in actual elections
A failure to grasp this would be suboptimal for their opponents
Tbf I'm not seeing anybody on 'my' side in denial that these results solidify Farage PM as a serious possibility. But don't go OTT the other way - a vain plea, I know - and interpret it as a sign that he's marching full bore and unstoppable towards Downing St. It remains more likely than not that he doesn't make it.
lol stop patronising me, you gimp
I’m well aware that he faces many obstacles. He’s trying to do something never done before. Take a brand new party and bring it to power in a few short years. Under FPTP that is almost impossible. It took Labour decades to supplant the Libs
My prediction for the next GE - but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it, the times are too volatile - is that the next government will likely be a Tory-Reform coalition
I was not patronising you. A gentle tease at most. So I really would appreciate you keeping a civil tongue in your head.
I mean, when we're chatting about something do I just casually call you an odious piece of puffed-up, self-regarding, racist garbage? No, I don't.
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
Are you sure that modern humans have in fact reached all parts of the United Kingdom?
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
Reculver is satisfyingly noomy, just standing in the ditch (the former sea bed that separated Thanet as an isle) looking up at the ruined Saxon church and pondering various kingly to and fros.
When we visited many years ago it was a very good 20 minute end of day antidote to a fine, traditional knickerbocker glory in Herne Bay.
Yes! I’m now determined to go there on a sunny day or two this summer (if we get one). I shall combine it with oysters - gigas - at Whitstable. It sounds like it’s got intense noom. The Victorians, the Saxons, the Romans - and 400,000 year old pre human hominid remains. Oooooh
Tories held the district seat in Epping West and Rural yesterday from Reform after a recount where I was running the committee room yesterday, though Reform won the county seat. Overall Reform surge in Epping Forest like most of Essex and indeed nationally
SNP sounding confident about taking Eastwood - would likely be Jackson Carlaw out of parliament, and could be good news for Russell Findlay's chances of holding onto a seat.
Not much word on Labour in Scotland, I would imagine they are not in the running for many constituencies other than what they hold and East Lothian. 20 of their 22 seats from last time are on the list, where they will be under huge pressure
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
Are you sure that modern humans have in fact reached all parts of the United Kingdom?
Hackney's new Green mayor Zoe Garbett suggests Labour lost because it was 'putting profit before the planet and supporting genocide'
Great the loons are in power
Have the Greens give any indications at all what we could possibly do about Gaza? There's only one country in the world who can do anything about what Netanyahu is doing, and it isn't us.
They will "call for" things. Lots of things. And tweet a lot. That'll sort things out.
While we wait for more results here’s something cool (or I think it’s cool)
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
Are you sure that modern humans have in fact reached all parts of the United Kingdom?
It could well be at close of play in England that all parties are secretly disappointed to some extent.
And at the same time heartened. Reform established as the main party of the right. Greens as a serious player on the left. The Cons still very much in the game. Incremental progress for the LDs. Worst fears not transpiring for Labour.
Main takeout: It's 5 party politics now and that's official.
Reform are not established as you put it. Let's see what happens at the GE....
It gives me no pleasure to say it but this is a big positive step for them. No longer just a newbie Farage vehicle topping the polls, now the leading party of the right embedded via real votes in local government across large parts of the country. They have captured most of that voter coalition that delivered Brexit and Johnson's 2019 election win. It's a strong position.
Commendable honesty, unlike some of your lefty cousins on here. You get it precisely right. Farage will be chuffed with this result. Maybe very chuffed. Reform are now the main right wing party across most of the country. Not in polls, in actual votes in actual elections
A failure to grasp this would be suboptimal for their opponents
Tbf I'm not seeing anybody on 'my' side in denial that these results solidify Farage PM as a serious possibility. But don't go OTT the other way - a vain plea, I know - and interpret it as a sign that he's marching full bore and unstoppable towards Downing St. It remains more likely than not that he doesn't make it.
lol stop patronising me, you gimp
I’m well aware that he faces many obstacles. He’s trying to do something never done before. Take a brand new party and bring it to power in a few short years. Under FPTP that is almost impossible. It took Labour decades to supplant the Libs
My prediction for the next GE - but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it, the times are too volatile - is that the next government will likely be a Tory-Reform coalition
I was not patronising you. A gentle tease at most. So I really would appreciate you keeping a civil tongue in your head.
I mean, when we're chatting about something do I just casually call you an odious piece of puffed-up, self-regarding, racist garbage? No, I don't.
Likewise I didn’t actually you call you a sad, myopic, effeminate little prick, who yearns to be seen as intellectual but always falls slightly short. Did I say that? No. I restrained myself
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
LOL The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
No-one really cares if someone is a "wrongun" as long as they're effective with a decent sprinkling of charisma.. reading the pb posters makes be think they want the Archbishop of Canterbury over a competent political operator..🥴
What sign of the Gaza Independents? All independents currently 20 (-16). A damb squib or the likely areas are yet to be counted?
I don't know if we've had many. I noted early doors that Labour's sole 2022 hold in Tameside, St. Peter's (effectively Ashton St. Peter's but not named so as I think it creeps over the town boundary into the Guide Bridge bit of Audenshaw) was actually won by a Gaza Independent in 2024, so Labour managed about a 5% swing against the Independent in those two years.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
LOL The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
I have to admit, you have something of a point, there
Reform have won an overall majority on Essex county council with 39 seats to 8 for the Tories, 3 for the LDs, 2 for the Independents and 1 for the Greens and RA
First twoNorfolk results are Reform gains in SW Norfolk (Truss old seat) - a whompjng in Attleborough and a fairly close Ref Con scrap in Guiltcross (35 to 28) Looks good for Reform eatly doors Edit - Tories have held on in Wymondham though
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
LOL The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
No-one really cares if someone is a "wrongun" as long as they're effective with a decent sprinkling of charisma.. reading the pb posters makes be think they want the Archbishop of Canterbury over a competent political operator..🥴
Good politician and good character are not mutually exclusive.
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I think it’s because he is two faced, economical with the truth, and never takes responsibility. That is true of a lot of politicians, but Sir Keir is also pious, boring to listen to, and free of charisma, which makes him intensely dislikeable.
Also, people sense a wrong ‘un. It’s instinctive
LOL The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
No-one really cares if someone is a "wrongun" as long as they're effective with a decent sprinkling of charisma.. reading the pb posters makes be think they want the Archbishop of Canterbury over a competent political operator..🥴
Look how well Boris did, although many of us knew he was a "wrong'un"!
Based on results thus far, it seems fairly simple to me. The white working class really, really dislike Starmer - much more than they dislike Labour as a brand - and won't vote Labour while he is leader. So, a new leader it has to be, unless Starmer can reinvent himself, which I seriously doubt. But they shouldn't rush it.
IPSOS Personality Ratings told us all this, although it didn’t stop him becoming PM as everyone was too angry with the Tories to notice him
Going to say it again. It's impossible to accurately assess the state of British politics until Starmer goes. He is not simply unpopular. He is despised to an extent I have never seen before, and can't personally rationalise. But he represents a uniquely distorting prism.
I wouldn't describe myself as a Starmer 'fan', nor in fact have I ever been, but I really don't understand the 'despising', and, often it seems, hatred, that many people seem to have for Starmer. Thatcher was disliked by many on the Left but I don't recall any of the antagonism that many people seem to have towards Starmer.
Why is it, I wonder.
I don't think there's a single reason.
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution, persecuting Northern Ireland veterans and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
And everyone hates him over Mandelson.
Mandelson I will simply never understand. He apparently wanted Osborne yet was convinced to not go with him.
So some of his own instincts are not terrible but he is always convinced otherwise. He is a weak-willed man with terrible judgment.
I don’t trust him.
In all honesty, things would probably have been better if Sue Gray had stayed instead of McSweeney. If he'd done the things he should have thought he'd do, he could have kept the Brahmin vote on board, even if he was - which he is anyway - getting pelters from GB News. Glasman should never have been given a time of day.
It could well be at close of play in England that all parties are secretly disappointed to some extent.
And at the same time heartened. Reform established as the main party of the right. Greens as a serious player on the left. The Cons still very much in the game. Incremental progress for the LDs. Worst fears not transpiring for Labour.
Main takeout: It's 5 party politics now and that's official.
Reform are not established as you put it. Let's see what happens at the GE....
It gives me no pleasure to say it but this is a big positive step for them. No longer just a newbie Farage vehicle topping the polls, now the leading party of the right embedded via real votes in local government across large parts of the country. They have captured most of that voter coalition that delivered Brexit and Johnson's 2019 election win. It's a strong position.
Commendable honesty, unlike some of your lefty cousins on here. You get it precisely right. Farage will be chuffed with this result. Maybe very chuffed. Reform are now the main right wing party across most of the country. Not in polls, in actual votes in actual elections
A failure to grasp this would be suboptimal for their opponents
Tbf I'm not seeing anybody on 'my' side in denial that these results solidify Farage PM as a serious possibility. But don't go OTT the other way - a vain plea, I know - and interpret it as a sign that he's marching full bore and unstoppable towards Downing St. It remains more likely than not that he doesn't make it.
lol stop patronising me, you gimp
I’m well aware that he faces many obstacles. He’s trying to do something never done before. Take a brand new party and bring it to power in a few short years. Under FPTP that is almost impossible. It took Labour decades to supplant the Libs
My prediction for the next GE - but I certainly wouldn’t bet on it, the times are too volatile - is that the next government will likely be a Tory-Reform coalition
I was not patronising you. A gentle tease at most. So I really would appreciate you keeping a civil tongue in your head.
I mean, when we're chatting about something do I just casually call you an odious piece of puffed-up, self-regarding, racist garbage? No, I don't.
Likewise I didn’t actually you call you a sad, myopic, effeminate little prick, who yearns to be seen as intellectual but always falls slightly short. Did I say that? No. I restrained myself
Off on a tangent, but is that helmet on the front guy serving any purpose at all, other than decoration. I guess if something fell directly from above it might help, but it's not going to do anything useful in a crash.
It's bizarre that cyclists are not required to wear effective head protection, but moped riders legally must have an approved safety helmet.
If you come off, that chunky curb stone your head hits doesn't care what you were riding...
Not a rabbit hole I'm pursuing, but as per usual it's probably the speed difference - between moving at 8-12mph and 25-40mph. It's also the absence of convincing evidence for taking any particular position. Instead organisations managing time trials, adventure courses etc do require helmets.
It seems quite a sensible way to handle it.
I note that competitors in the London Marathon (or Parkrun) are not required to wear helmets, nor are track athletes or children or adults who wish to run in their daily lives eg for exercise.
Comments
If you come off, that chunky curb stone your head hits doesn't care what you were riding...
The message from Northern council results swinging sharply to Reform echoes that from County Durham last year. To win these communities back Labour needs to:
- focus on tackling the cost of living crisis
- not backslide on tackling illegal immigration
- reindustrialise - invest in high quality jobs and transport infrastructure in left behind communities - including ensuring the long-awaited Defence Investment Plan has a regional jobs impact
- deepen initiatives like Pride in Place to regenerate high streets and town centres
- tackle ASB, drug crime, shoplifting and offroad bikes
- be pragmatic about net zero policies so that they don't cause jobs to be lost, whether that's allowing the 2 new oil and gas fields to proceed, or ensuring the ZEV mandate works for the car industry
Luke makes some good points but it’s all pointless with Starmer still there
Starmer has shown no indication he was likely to ever go unless forced.
Note how he seems to have no friends in Labour. Not one. He has no loyal cadres. No network of allies. He has favoured aides that he throws under buses
It is a fact the Conservative structure for selecting Parliamentary Candidates could be gamed, particularly by minor public school alumni. If there is to be an end of this trauma then at least the Jenricks will have gone. That must be good.
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
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1m
Talk Reform could even win a maj on council, which would be huge. By far their biggest council win in history
Labour on 11 seats of the 126 declared, a net loss of 69 seats.
90 seats yet to declare.
I think the obsessive hate/abuse is more normal politics - the partisan media sources are treating him as they did Kinnock, with the primary objective being to go for Starmer rather than report the news, and any suitable incident or story becomes such a vehicle.
For the Conservatives I think it is exacerbated because they have almost nothing to say on their own account, and still have not looked into / taken responsibility for what they did to wreck the country, so attacking Starmer is all they have left other than a Giant Sucking Sound.
For Reform, they have always been a marketing organisation which embraces both sides of most poicies at different times, so that comes with the territory.
He has pissed off the Left, by not doing lefty things. They have left en-masse for the Greens.
A chunk of the old style Labour voters think Labour no longer represents them. So has gone Reform.
He hasn't got much done that the Centrists like.
The problem is "Where is the upside of Starmer?" - as @NickPalmer said (above) the Left stuck with Blair because he delivered on things like more money for schools & hospitals, despite hammering the ultra-left (Militant etc).
Badenoch’s are quite good.
Where does the Local Highways Authority sit, for example?
Good news - turnout was up from 38% to over 50%.
But I am massively disappointed in him. I think his judgment is terrible and he’s got nobody with any ideas around him.
On that basis I’m on Team Burnham.
I bought a hand axe off eBay. Not just any old hand axe: a bifacially worked flint handaxe, recovered in the 1970s from a “Pleistocene channel deposit at Reculver” - on the north Kent coast. That is to say: it is of the early Acheulean tradition, and dates approximately 400,000 years before present
To give a sense of the era: at that time the British Isles were not islands but a peninsula of the European mainland. It was found by the English Channel but dropped by its creator long before there WAS a Channel
Even better, the maker was human but not human. Pre human. The dude that knapped my flint was almost certainly Homo heidelbergensis. Anatomically modern humans would not appear in Africa for a further 100,000 years, and would not reach Britain for another 350,000
The thing has a deeply strange, deeply uncanny beauty, I can feel where the pre human fingers held it, smashing elephant bones to get at the marrow, scraping the red flesh of an auroch or a macaque or a hippo. The patina is subtly gorgeous and the yellowy flint positively throbs with noom
Cost? £65
"Scotland swapped a Secretary of State and six ministers for a billion-pound parliament, a six-billion-pound quango state and 25 years of constitutional psychodrama. Hard to call that progress."
70 is the par mark from last election (accounting for welsh assembly upsizing).
When will Labour get real. Honestly this is why people hate this party. We apparently love to lose.
He has no answers
It is weird. The glitching
Hackney's new Green mayor Zoe Garbett suggests Labour lost because it was 'putting profit before the planet and supporting genocide'
Great the loons are in power
Lots of people were never going to like a left-wing, former Trotskyist, human rights lawyer anyway.
But he's done enough individual things to annoy just about everybody at one time or another during his short premiership.
The private sector hates the extra taxes
English nationalists hate the Twitter woman prosecution, persecuting Northern Ireland veterans and the record small boats numbers.
The Loony Left hate him for all his compromises.
English nationalists hate him because of the record small boat numbers.
The old hate him for the WFA.
Etc etc etc.
He has no vision and no charisma to offset that, which Blair and Mrs Thatcher had in abundance.
His team are widely considered terrible.
He was holier than thou about Boris, but when in power, he never takes responsibility if he can blame his team.
Finally, despite gigantic majorities in Parliament, he is the king of U-turns, and it is the nature of such manoeuvres that, though you save your skin the short term, the people who opposed it remember you proposed it, while the people you've let down despise you for being a coward.
Overall it's not surprising that he's hated, the question is why anybody would like him.
Not my rules - @TSE made the ruling yesterday
When we visited many years ago it was a very good 20 minute end of day antidote to a fine, traditional knickerbocker glory in Herne Bay.
Pre human artefacts is next level though.
The two most popular UK politicians of recent years are Boris and Farage, before that Blair was considerably more popular than Brown, despite post-PM events indicating that Blair is clearly more interested in personal wealth than ethics, while Brown has continued his campaign against child poverty. Then there's Clegg, who people still talk favourably about compared to Brown, despite him heading off to California to earn millions running the corporate whitewash for the malign child-harming entity that is Meta, which viewed impartially probably makes him a considerably bigger next tuesday than the other 4 combined.
The clear evidence is that people cannot sense a wrong 'un.
So some of his own instincts are not terrible but he is always convinced otherwise. He is a weak-willed man with terrible judgment.
I don’t trust him.
I mean, when we're chatting about something do I just casually call you an odious piece of puffed-up, self-regarding, racist garbage? No, I don't.
Colleagues are desperate to hear about Sheffield
It may not last but he’s obviously the answer.
Not much word on Labour in Scotland, I would imagine they are not in the running for many constituencies other than what they hold and East Lothian. 20 of their 22 seats from last time are on the list, where they will be under huge pressure
He says Reform can be trusted on immigration. Mate you were in the cabinet when the immigration wave happened!
So I expect the same decorous cordiality from you
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2026/england/councils/E10000012
Looks good for Reform eatly doors
Edit - Tories have held on in Wymondham though
People loathe the fact that he is unable to exercise leadership of any kind.
What's the mad rush anyway? I thought you were on the Burnham train? That needs time to leave the station let alone reach its destination.
Starmer looks almost vacant in defending his position and goodness knows what labour will do
Reform saying Plaid has won Wales and labour has tanked
We are in very different politics and the next GE is impossible to predict
Greens won Salford Quays ward (home of BBC) with Reform last. So I suspect that is not the sense that you mean.
It seems quite a sensible way to handle it.
I note that competitors in the London Marathon (or Parkrun) are not required to wear helmets, nor are track athletes or children or adults who wish to run in their daily lives eg for exercise.
LDs 7221, SNP 1,661, Reform 844, Conservatives 358, Labour 199