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Mayday! A grim night for Labour and the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,223
edited May 8 in General
Mayday! A grim night for Labour and the Tories – politicalbetting.com

As we can see from the BBC graphic above it’s been a very impressive night for Reform and very bad for Labour and the Tories but the worst is yet to come, with fewer than a third of council reporting and Wales & Scotland devolved elections to come.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,618
    2nd?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,836
    Shit got real
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,589
    Poor old Baxter is gonna struggle with these vote shares
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,787

    Seems there is a council ward in Portsmouth called Charles Dickens.

    Exeter has a ‘ Mincinglake and Whipton’.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201
    Better to be Labour than Tories I think this morning.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135
    I agree with others here that given Labour appear to have clung on more successfully in London that will dent the impression of complete disaster for them. Enough for SKS to come out fighting?

    Outside of London it looks utterly horrific though.

    Tories have done very badly too - perhaps not quite as awfully as they could have done in some places in the South, but some of those vote totals in some wards in the Northern councils are tiny - they are losing their ability to compete entirely in some places. Wandsworth is a bad miss IMHO.

    LDs probably decent, Greens underwhelming, Reform doing well (though still perhaps hampered by weaknesses in places?)

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    Green NEV must be a lot lower than what we're seeing in the polls. Reform probably a few points higher too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,836
    My summary. Reform sweeping up both Labour and Conservative votes, with both losing approximately half of their previous vote.

    Greens doing well but underperforming against expectations. Lib Dems doing well and better than expectations.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579

    No.

    It's been an utterly terrible night for Labour, and in line with expectations for the Tories - with some saves and wins.

    Yup I think this is basically where most expected to end up and taking back Westminster seems a good result. I hope Barnet also falls, it should do given the high concentration of Jewish and Hindu homeowners but you never know.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 601

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    If they hold Bexley that would be very good and a surprise.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    moonshine said:

    Poor old Baxter is gonna struggle with these vote shares

    UNS is dead.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135

    No.

    It's been an utterly terrible night for Labour, and in line with expectations for the Tories - with some saves and wins.

    I think it’s a tale of geographies really. Regional variations are becoming a huge thing in UK politics.

    If you’re Labour/Tories looking at northern councils, it looks utterly cataclysmic. If you’re looking at London, it’s slightly more positive.

    I don’t think either party can take tremendous cheer, but one thing they both do have in common is they are doing slightly better in some places than worst case scenario.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,366
    edited May 8
    Last year's PNSs

    Ref 30
    Lab 20
    LD 17
    Con 15
    Grn 11

    2022 PNSs (relates to most seats being defended):

    Lab 35
    Con 30
    LD 19
    Grn 11
    (no Reform score)

    if we look at 23/24 as well we can assume the average PNSs relating to all seat defences are a touch lower for Con, a touch higher for Grn.

    The seat losses and gains for last year's rounds were mostly relative to the PNS's for 2021 which were:

    Con 36
    Lab 29
    LD 17
    Grn 10


    So, it is somewhat harder for Labour to retain a seat it holds this year than last, whilst it is somewhat easier for the Tories.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    edited May 8

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    That’s a big swing against the Tories.

    Ladbrokes has wound up its local election markets and while Betfair’s are open, most have next to no money in them. There’s a little left for the LibDems ending up with more seats than the Tories at 1.2, if anyone fancies a gamble.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,670
    Reform done rather well in Basildon.

    Essex person has spoken.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    IanB2 said:

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    That’s a big swing against the Tories.
    Yeah they were on 50% in 2021.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,589
    IanB2 said:

    moonshine said:

    Poor old Baxter is gonna struggle with these vote shares

    UNS is dead.
    Makes you wonder whether even the MRP are going to have colossal error bands
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201
    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,036

    No.

    It's been an utterly terrible night for Labour, and in line with expectations for the Tories - with some saves and wins.

    I think it’s a tale of geographies really. Regional variations are becoming a huge thing in UK politics.

    If you’re Labour/Tories looking at northern councils, it looks utterly cataclysmic. If you’re looking at London, it’s slightly more positive.

    I don’t think either party can take tremendous cheer, but one thing they both do have in common is they are doing slightly better in some places than worst case scenario.
    Good morning, everyone.

    If regional variation is becoming a 'thing' I suggest it should be known as the Wapentake Effect.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,194
    Someone said Starmer could become Foreign Secretary on the basis he likes meeting foreign leaders and travel.........

    I think I'd sooner have Leon....

    It's thanks to his forays into the job of foreign secretary that he's managed to get these worst election results on record. His decision making has been woeful. He's managed to persuade even loyalists like me that enough is enough.

    Get back to the Bar Keir....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197

    IanB2 said:

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    That’s a big swing against the Tories.
    Yeah they were on 50% in 2021.
    How have the Tories done in Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,036
    Roger said:

    Someone said Starmer could become Foreign Secretary on the basis he likes meeting foreign leaders and travel.........

    I think I'd sooner have Leon....

    It's thanks to his forays into the job of foreign secretary that he's managed to get these worst election results on record. His decision making has been woeful. He's managed to persuade even loyalists like me that enough is enough.

    Get back to the Bar Keir....

    If Starmer goes back to the bar he'll be reunited with his ex-deputy PM :p
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376

    IanB2 said:

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    That’s a big swing against the Tories.
    Yeah they were on 50% in 2021.
    How have the Tories done in Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex?
    Norfolk and Suffolk count today. They have done very badly in Essex! Well, they did well in Harlow and Colchester, shit elsewhere
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,671
    Roger said:

    Someone said Starmer could become Foreign Secretary on the basis he likes meeting foreign leaders and travel.........

    I think I'd sooner have Leon....

    It's thanks to his forays into the job of foreign secretary that he's managed to get these worst election results on record. His decision making has been woeful. He's managed to persuade even loyalists like me that enough is enough.

    Get back to the Bar Keir....

    I know you want to believe that it is solely through not taking Hamas's side in Gaza that Labour has lost all these seats, but I don't think it is necessarily uppermost in the mimds of the voters in Halton and Tameside and Wigan.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    edited May 8
    Reform takes Havering. Looks like the Tories are the main losers there, although the faux Reform Residents Association has also lost seats to the real thing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,837
    "You can't sugar coat this" - John Healey - R4 Today
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,166
    Roger said:

    Someone said Starmer could become Foreign Secretary on the basis he likes meeting foreign leaders and travel.........

    I think I'd sooner have Leon....

    It's thanks to his forays into the job of foreign secretary that he's managed to get these worst election results on record. His decision making has been woeful. He's managed to persuade even loyalists like me that enough is enough.

    Get back to the Bar Keir....

    Indeed, his total inaction with regard to Iran will be studied for decades. But instead petrol is £2 a litre, inflation is about to take off - but summer holiday flights won’t be.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197

    IanB2 said:

    Hampshire headed for a three way tie
    Con 24 LD 20 Ref 19. 10 to declare

    Tories need 2 more wards to hold Bexley

    That’s a big swing against the Tories.
    Yeah they were on 50% in 2021.
    How have the Tories done in Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex?
    Norfolk and Suffolk count today. They have done very badly in Essex! Well, they did well in Harlow and Colchester, shit elsewhere
    Ta, I did say a boot on the ground was expecting an ELE in those three counties.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,982
    For most of the seats being contested this year that means going back to the results in 2022. We ignore by-elections and changes of party allegiance – when a councillor defects from one party to another.

    That’s the same approach as we take when reporting the results of general elections and many experts think it’s the best way to gauge how the parties have performed from one election to another.

    Some media organisations calculate change differently – they look at what party each councillor represented just before this year’s elections.

    The difference between the two approaches is going to be unusually big this year. Lots of councillors have switched from one party to another or have left the party they were originally elected for to sit as independents.

    In particular, many Conservative councillors have defected to Reform UK and lots of Labour councillors have switched to the Greens or independents. Reform have also won a lot of seats in by-elections.

    So, the BBC is likely to show a higher number of seat losses for Labour and the Conservatives, and a higher number of gains for Reform UK and the Greens, than you might see elsewhere.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1428pev1n0t
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,670
    Havering another impressive Reform result. At the expense of the Tories this time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704

    Reform done rather well in Basildon.

    Essex person has spoken.

    It's no wonder Leon is so bitter against the world, living slap bang in the middle of Camden surrounded by woke lefties; maybe it would be better for his mental health if he relocated to Basildon and lived out the rest of his days among his fellow intellectuals?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    IanB2 said:

    Reform done rather well in Basildon.

    Essex person has spoken.

    It's no wonder Leon is so bitter against the world, living slap bang in the middle of Camden surrounded by woke lefties; maybe it would be better for his mental health if he relocated to Basildon and lived out the rest of his days among his fellow intellectuals?
    Very funny !
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,477
    IanB2 said:

    Reform done rather well in Basildon.

    Essex person has spoken.

    It's no wonder Leon is so bitter against the world, living slap bang in the middle of Camden surrounded by woke lefties; maybe it would be better for his mental health if he relocated to Basildon and lived out the rest of his days among his fellow intellectuals?
    He’ll have no choice but to - Reform will turn his flat into a migrant hostel.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,594
    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Con hold Bexley which will please them. The East London Reform surge didn't really get going there
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,982
    edited May 8

    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly

    We forget that super lefty Corbynite Emma Dent Coad won that seat in a GE.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,477

    Con hold Bexley which will please them. The East London Reform surge didn't really get going there

    The Conservatives polling in London always looks quite good. You can imagine a scenario where the rest of England is dominated by Reform, even while London has a Tory mayor.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,671

    No.

    It's been an utterly terrible night for Labour, and in line with expectations for the Tories - with some saves and wins.

    I think it’s a tale of geographies really. Regional variations are becoming a huge thing in UK politics.

    If you’re Labour/Tories looking at northern councils, it looks utterly cataclysmic. If you’re looking at London, it’s slightly more positive.

    I don’t think either party can take tremendous cheer, but one thing they both do have in common is they are doing slightly better in some places than worst case scenario.
    In traditionally Labour areas, Reform have done very well against Labour. In traditionally Tory areas, Reform have done very well against the Tories. I expect the picture will look gradually worse for the Tories through the day as more Tory areas declare and we see Tory equivalents of the Wigan result last night.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,837
    Healey: Starmer has the mandate.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    God bless London !

    An island of sanity in a sea of stupidity.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Johnathan is just attempting to shine the light elsewhere after Labour's destruction. It's all over for them, they just can't come to terms with being a one term government after 14 years of waiting.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Sure, but looking ahead to GE29, given the choice of taking Starmer or Badenochs shoes this morning and taking on their position my hunch is that Starmers position is far stronger. The Tories look to be competing for second place.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704

    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly

    But note that, with a few results still to come, Labour is actually on a net GAIN of one seat there. Could Kensington be the ONLY council in the UK where Labour finishes with a net gain???
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    edited May 8
    Disastrous so far for Labour.

    Sir Keir must go.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,216
    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    Come 2029 there is imo a realistic chance that the more councils Reform gain today the better both Labour and Conservatives will do at the GE. Let the voters see what Reform deliver.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,982
    edited May 8

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    Come 2029 there is imo a realistic chance that the more councils Reform gain today the better both Labour and Conservatives will do at the GE. Let the voters see what Reform deliver.
    Are a load of them that are being voted on today being scraped in the next 18 months under Big Ange local government reogranisation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    Look on the bright side, in years past it would by now be almost all over, save for the after-match analysis. Today we have thirty hours of election results still to look forward to!
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,404

    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly

    We forget that super lefty Corbynite Emma Dent Coad won that seat in a GE.
    That was mainly because a rogue Lib Dem candidate sucked in resources thinking they could win and allowed Labour to come through the middle. Emma Dent Coad thanked her specifically in her acceptance speech if I recall.

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/151986/annabel-mullin-advance/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,795
    Jimmy Carr: Why the Working Class Moved Right (And the Left Doesn’t Get It)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6-UyEXJldc

    No jokes but five minutes on politics, including the demise of Labour & Conservatives, and also Democrats & Republicans.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,131
    M’aider!
    Voters: Non!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135

    Disastrous so for far Labour.

    Sir Keir must go.

    What’s your assessment of whether he will or not? I was 60/40 stay/go yesterday evening. I think it’s more like 75/25 now.

    I think they have enough to spin - let us listen and learn etc.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    IanB2 said:

    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly

    But note that, with a few results still to come, Labour is actually on a net GAIN of one seat there. Could Kensington be the ONLY council in the UK where Labour finishes with a net gain???
    I think they’re currently on a net gain in Merton .
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,604
    nico67 said:

    God bless London !

    An island of sanity in a sea of stupidity.

    Epic rage bait, well done.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623

    Disastrous so for far Labour.

    Sir Keir must go.

    What’s your assessment of whether he will or not? I was 60/40 stay/go yesterday evening. I think it’s more like 75/25 now.

    I think they have enough to spin - let us listen and learn etc.
    If somebody goes over the top he’s done.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,566
    IanB2 said:

    Look on the bright side, in years past it would by now be almost all over, save for the after-match analysis. Today we have thirty hours of election results still to look forward to!

    Counting the next day is far more humane but loses almost all the drama.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,589
    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    Rees Mogg has been ramping a union of the right, which I expect says all you need to know about how most Tories see their prospects. Personally I find this unlikely before the election, but it may be forced on all concerned afterwards by the arithmetic.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,604
    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Reform done rather well in Basildon.

    Essex person has spoken.

    It's no wonder Leon is so bitter against the world, living slap bang in the middle of Camden surrounded by woke lefties; maybe it would be better for his mental health if he relocated to Basildon and lived out the rest of his days among his fellow intellectuals?
    He’ll have no choice but to - Reform will turn his flat into a migrant hostel.
    Leon spends so much time out the country he might as well be an 'illegal' himself.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    Every day that Sir Keir remains around is another day of doing stuff lost.

    Labour has plenty of time for a recovery and to show results. But Sir Keir just sits there and doing what exactly?

    What is the plan, what is he trying to do? Just being PM isn’t an answer.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704

    Con hold Bexley which will please them. The East London Reform surge didn't really get going there

    On vote share Bexley is running at Tory 38% to Reform's 32% - with only just over half the results in. 32% from nothing is a pretty significant surge - but it's evenly spread and not based on local campaigning or candidates - hence it's not landing all that many seats.

    A lesson for those who sometimes assume that a high Reform vote share automatically means a giant seat haul.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,982
    How are the parties doing vs expectations? My forecast based on declarations. Numbers will shift significantly as afternoon results come in:

    Reform +1,419 vs consensus +1,625 - slightly underperforming
    Labour -1,231 vs consensus -1,590 - losing badly, but less than feared
    Conservatives -547 vs consensus -652 - holding up a little better than expected
    Green +685 vs consensus +588 - outperforming
    LD +203 vs consensus +186 - on track

    Extrapolated vs trimmed mean of 10 forecasters.

    https://x.com/DamianSurvation/status/2052641940756103235?s=20
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,145
    edited May 8
    IanB2 said:

    Reform takes Havering. Looks like the Tories are the main losers there, although the faux Reform Residents Association has also lost seats to the real thing.

    Looking at the remaining wards, it wouldn't surprise me if the Conservatives end up on zero.

    And yes, take away the racism and leadership cult and HRA (hate potholes and new buildings, love low taxes) do a similar vibe to the rich bit of Reform.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Johnathan is just attempting to shine the light elsewhere after Labour's destruction. It's all over for them, they just can't come to terms with being a one term government after 14 years of waiting.
    Nah , Labour are in the shit this morning just only ever so slightly less in the shit than the Tories because they still have levers to pull. The Tories only strategy is to wait and hope.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    edited May 8

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
    2011 is a bad example, as it was the days of three party politics and two of them were in coalition; Labour benefitted from being the only party not in government that had any airtime.

    This time, Reform and the Greens were coming off the back of a decent GE, so were obviously the NOTAs. The surprise for me is how the Lib Dem’s haven’t prospered, given an unpopular Labour govt and a wounded Tory party who’ve just been thrown out
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,616
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Johnathan is just attempting to shine the light elsewhere after Labour's destruction. It's all over for them, they just can't come to terms with being a one term government after 14 years of waiting.
    Labour have paid the penalty for not preparing to be in government.

    For fourteen years they had lived in their own comfort zone that the country's problems were all because of 'Tory austerity' and 'Tory incompetence'.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    Come 2029 there is imo a realistic chance that the more councils Reform gain today the better both Labour and Conservatives will do at the GE. Let the voters see what Reform deliver.
    Because most are electing by thirds there won’t be as many where Reform will be taking control. They might be let in as minority leadership here and there but that effect will be somewhat limited.

    Indeed, in a lot of Councils the current leadership will be seeing an iceberg looming in the distance for next year - they’ll have lost lots of their colleagues but they won’t be ceding control yet.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    IanB2 said:

    Con hold Bexley which will please them. The East London Reform surge didn't really get going there

    On vote share Bexley is running at Tory 38% to Reform's 32% - with only just over half the results in. 32% from nothing is a pretty significant surge - but it's evenly spread and not based on local campaigning or candidates - hence it's not landing all that many seats.

    A lesson for those who sometimes assume that a high Reform vote share automatically means a giant seat haul.
    True, true, i was only looking at seats
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,388
    nico67 said:

    God bless London !

    An island of sanity in a sea of stupidity.

    I'm not sure it'll last because London is going to be absolutely screwed by many of the backloaded tax rises that Labour are introducing, in particular the huge rises in council taxes at the higher end but also likely further increases in capital gains and dividend taxes and the redistribution of council funds towards the north.

    Mind you, turkeys DO sometimes vote for Christmas, and many of the tax rises are pretty well disguised.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376

    IanB2 said:

    Con hold Bexley which will please them. The East London Reform surge didn't really get going there

    On vote share Bexley is running at Tory 38% to Reform's 32% - with only just over half the results in. 32% from nothing is a pretty significant surge - but it's evenly spread and not based on local campaigning or candidates - hence it's not landing all that many seats.

    A lesson for those who sometimes assume that a high Reform vote share automatically means a giant seat haul.
    True, true, i was only looking at seats
    And theyve massively taken Havering
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    nico67 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Con hold Kensington and Chelsea unsurprisingly

    But note that, with a few results still to come, Labour is actually on a net GAIN of one seat there. Could Kensington be the ONLY council in the UK where Labour finishes with a net gain???
    I think they’re currently on a net gain in Merton .
    You're right - and all seats are declared. The LibDems gained just two, and the Tories went backwards. More evidence that Labour will come away still controlling most of London.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201
    By the way. Highly recommend Rest is History recent series on 1970s. Well worth a listen. Four episodes of pure political geekery.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    I’m not really seeing evidence yet that Reform has a broad coalition like say Johnson managed.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 863
    Foss said:

    Seems there is a council ward in Portsmouth called Charles Dickens.

    Exeter has a ‘ Mincinglake and Whipton’.
    Dickens was born in Portsmouth.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,131
    Pbuh.

    you can basically disregard any commentator who doesn’t understand the below

    https://x.com/steamedhamms/status/2052645908668445136?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Johnathan is just attempting to shine the light elsewhere after Labour's destruction. It's all over for them, they just can't come to terms with being a one term government after 14 years of waiting.
    Nah , Labour are in the shit this morning just only ever so slightly less in the shit than the Tories because they still have levers to pull. The Tories only strategy is to wait and hope.
    Nice. The final words of The Count of Monte Cristo “ “Until the day when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these two words,—‘Wait and hope.’”
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,546

    How are the parties doing vs expectations? My forecast based on declarations. Numbers will shift significantly as afternoon results come in:

    Reform +1,419 vs consensus +1,625 - slightly underperforming
    Labour -1,231 vs consensus -1,590 - losing badly, but less than feared
    Conservatives -547 vs consensus -652 - holding up a little better than expected
    Green +685 vs consensus +588 - outperforming
    LD +203 vs consensus +186 - on track

    Extrapolated vs trimmed mean of 10 forecasters.

    https://x.com/DamianSurvation/status/2052641940756103235?s=20

    Yes, feels like the pattern is Reform killing it in the Red Wall but doing less well in the middle class parts of the south and still struggling in London
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704

    How are the parties doing vs expectations? My forecast based on declarations. Numbers will shift significantly as afternoon results come in:

    Reform +1,419 vs consensus +1,625 - slightly underperforming
    Labour -1,231 vs consensus -1,590 - losing badly, but less than feared
    Conservatives -547 vs consensus -652 - holding up a little better than expected
    Green +685 vs consensus +588 - outperforming
    LD +203 vs consensus +186 - on track

    Extrapolated vs trimmed mean of 10 forecasters.

    https://x.com/DamianSurvation/status/2052641940756103235?s=20

    That Green projection is starting to look optimistic (for them)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,625
    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    Very early days but John Curtice and Michael Thrasher both say Labour are so far performing less badly than expected

    Curtice tells BBC: “Labour's rate of seat loss were to continue to the end of tomorrow, they could be looking at losses of just over 1200 seats, rather less than some anticipated”
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    Fishing said:

    nico67 said:

    God bless London !

    An island of sanity in a sea of stupidity.

    I'm not sure it'll last because London is going to be absolutely screwed by many of the backloaded tax rises that Labour are introducing, in particular the huge rises in council taxes at the higher end but also likely further increases in capital gains and dividend taxes and the redistribution of council funds towards the north.

    Mind you, turkeys DO sometimes vote for Christmas, and many of the tax rises are pretty well disguised.
    Turkeys voting for Christmas sums up what I think of the Reform surge in other parts of the country.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,623
    edited May 8
    I think Labour have already elected enough councillors to avoid losing 2,000 in this round. It does look like they've done better than the more lurid predictions, though there's still a long way to go.

    There's some very strong regional and other variations going on, which suggests that there's some demographic and/or socio-economic factors that are strongly correlated with party support - so you'd think that would make it possible for an MRP to do a decent job with the next general election, for all that it looks like a mess with five parties close together in national vote share.
  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 227

    Disastrous so far for Labour.

    Sir Keir must go.

    To be replaced by whom? One could argue that the results from Tameside, Wigan, etc would suggest that people in the Manchester area may have tired of Labour in general and that the King of the North may not be the droid leader we’re looking for.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623

    How are the parties doing vs expectations? My forecast based on declarations. Numbers will shift significantly as afternoon results come in:

    Reform +1,419 vs consensus +1,625 - slightly underperforming
    Labour -1,231 vs consensus -1,590 - losing badly, but less than feared
    Conservatives -547 vs consensus -652 - holding up a little better than expected
    Green +685 vs consensus +588 - outperforming
    LD +203 vs consensus +186 - on track

    Extrapolated vs trimmed mean of 10 forecasters.

    https://x.com/DamianSurvation/status/2052641940756103235?s=20

    Yes, feels like the pattern is Reform killing it in the Red Wall but doing less well in the middle class parts of the south and still struggling in London
    So far they seem to have hoovered up the Johnson 2019 Red Wall vote but they haven’t made much progress in the more liberal seats.

    Doesn’t really imply a majority to me but maybe with a split vote they come through the middle.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197
    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
    2011 is a bad example, as it was the days of three party politics and two of them were in coalition; Labour benefitted from being the only party not in government that had any airtime.

    This time, Reform and the Greens were coming off the back of a decent GE, so were obviously the NOTAs. The surprise for me is how the Lib Dem’s haven’t prospered, given an unpopular Labour govt and a wounded Tory party who’ve just been thrown out
    So why did the Tories make net gains in 1998?
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    edited May 8
    I mean I live in London and I never thought Reform had any chance around here.

    I think a liberal Tory has a very good chance next time around for mayor though.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    We can’t escape Brexit .

    The lying grifter Farage being rewarded by those who still seem to think it was all a marvellous idea !
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135
    Scott_xP said:

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    Very early days but John Curtice and Michael Thrasher both say Labour are so far performing less badly than expected

    Curtice tells BBC: “Labour's rate of seat loss were to continue to the end of tomorrow, they could be looking at losses of just over 1200 seats, rather less than some anticipated”

    That’s very much putting a brave face on it. But I think the fact that assessment is being delivered at all, is enough to save SKS.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197
    Just stuck some tweets by Damian from Survation in the header.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201
    One of interesting lines in the Rest is History was comparing Starmer to Ted Heath.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,290
    edited May 8
    Reform clearly coming first but as Lyons and Curtice say maybe not quite as great for them as forecast and Labour suffering heavy losses but still tied for second place on councils won with the Tories with just 1 council seat between them.

    Some good Tory results in areas like Bexley, Harlow, Broxbourne and Fareham too which the Tories held where Reform would have hoped to take the council. Excellent Tory results in central London as well with the Tories winning control of Westminster council from Labour, holding Kensington and Chelsea and winning most seats in Wandsworth
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,201

    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
    2011 is a bad example, as it was the days of three party politics and two of them were in coalition; Labour benefitted from being the only party not in government that had any airtime.

    This time, Reform and the Greens were coming off the back of a decent GE, so were obviously the NOTAs. The surprise for me is how the Lib Dem’s haven’t prospered, given an unpopular Labour govt and a wounded Tory party who’ve just been thrown out
    So why did the Tories make net gains in 1998?
    Normally HM opposition would expect to make significant gains. A necessary basecamp before the subsequent GE. It’s unusual for them to go backwards.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,704
    Scott_xP said:

    @peterstefanovic.bsky.social‬

    Very early days but John Curtice and Michael Thrasher both say Labour are so far performing less badly than expected

    Curtice tells BBC: “Labour's rate of seat loss were to continue to the end of tomorrow, they could be looking at losses of just over 1200 seats, rather less than some anticipated”

    Top expectations management from Labour over the last fortnight, making everyone expect a calamity so that now a mere disaster doesn't seem so bad.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,135

    How are the parties doing vs expectations? My forecast based on declarations. Numbers will shift significantly as afternoon results come in:

    Reform +1,419 vs consensus +1,625 - slightly underperforming
    Labour -1,231 vs consensus -1,590 - losing badly, but less than feared
    Conservatives -547 vs consensus -652 - holding up a little better than expected
    Green +685 vs consensus +588 - outperforming
    LD +203 vs consensus +186 - on track

    Extrapolated vs trimmed mean of 10 forecasters.

    https://x.com/DamianSurvation/status/2052641940756103235?s=20

    Yes, feels like the pattern is Reform killing it in the Red Wall but doing less well in the middle class parts of the south and still struggling in London
    So far they seem to have hoovered up the Johnson 2019 Red Wall vote but they haven’t made much progress in the more liberal seats.

    Doesn’t really imply a majority to me but maybe with a split vote they come through the middle.
    Remains as it has done for some time. Reform will struggle to win an election outright. Though they’d likely do well enough to be largest party.

    The question on the left/centre is how easily Labour can try and win back those voters for another go, so as to build a coalition that can defeat that. Right now, you’d like them to be doing much better in red wall seats for them to have that chance. But we still have a very uncertain outlook.
  • wembleytorwembleytor Posts: 35
    The Manchester Evening News has the OMRLP second in Denton South, which would be quite the NOTA statement by an electorate surely feeling election fatigue after the Gorton and Denton by-election. However, its actually a misprint, the Green came second.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,982
    edited May 8
    Speaking to reporters, Prime Minister Keir Starmer says that he takes "responsibility" for Labour's election results in England.

    “When voters send a message like this we must reflect and we must respond," he says.

    The "vast majority of people" do understand the "huge challenges" facing the country, including "a series of economic shocks" and a "difficult international situation", he says.

    But he says voters "still want to see the change that we promised".

    "They know the status quo is letting them down and they’re frustrated, they don’t feel the changes.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1428pev1n0t

    Who is getting fired this time ;-)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,415
    Labour need to forget trying to win back Reform voters . It’s not going to happen and they need to accept reality that the party needs to move on and try and stop the fracture on the left .

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,623
    The Tories have gained councillors in Peterborough, somewhat against the tide, and Labour only lost two-thirds of the councillors it was defending there.

    We may be seeing Labour/Tories benefiting from their remaining support being concentrated among higher turnout demographics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,197
    Jonathan said:

    isam said:

    Jonathan said:

    If HM opposition cannot gain seats when a government is this unpopular what chance do they have? They’ve been largely eclipsed.

    At least an unpopular government has some cards to play. Nor sure what cards HM opposition have when other opposition parties are more popular .

    I think your first statement ignores the fact that said opposition was in power for 14 years and has just been turfed out.
    Wasn’t an issue for Labour in 2011 and the Tories in 1998.
    2011 is a bad example, as it was the days of three party politics and two of them were in coalition; Labour benefitted from being the only party not in government that had any airtime.

    This time, Reform and the Greens were coming off the back of a decent GE, so were obviously the NOTAs. The surprise for me is how the Lib Dem’s haven’t prospered, given an unpopular Labour govt and a wounded Tory party who’ve just been thrown out
    So why did the Tories make net gains in 1998?
    Normally HM opposition would expect to make significant gains. A necessary basecamp before the subsequent GE. It’s unusual for them to go backwards.
    Indeed, the abuse I get for pointing that out is weird.
This discussion has been closed.