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Over half of Brits wants another EU referendum within the next five years – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    eek said:

    Got to ask how much of this is because of the complexity of getting through European border control

    How bad could it possibly be? I've only used it once in the last 10 years and maybe I got lucky or didn't know any better, but it hardly seemed that much of a chore. But I guess frequent travellers feel the pain much more - when I was abroad last year this Brit and their Belgian friend immediately quizzed me about what I thought about Brexit* and had a good old laugh about (apparent) examples of Brits being shocked and irritated by border control processes.

    *I honestly thought such things only happened in stories
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    AnneJGP said:

    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Point of order: the oldest baby boomers are 80 now.

    I got de-threaded- at the end of the previous thread I said this:
    It would be interesting to see figures on the cost of just pensions to the state, and on when the drop-off of us oldies dying off kicks in, how quickly, and the impact that will have.
    It doesn't, from Fidelity
    "The longer-term trend is clear. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that the total pensioner spending could rise to around 8% of GDP by 2072/73 - and potentially even more if the economy continues to suffer weaker and more volatile growth."

    That is very concerning.
    It's going to be a long and painful century.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,293
    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Zzzzzzzz

    The yanks truly are shit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Point of order: the oldest baby boomers are 80 now.

    I got de-threaded- at the end of the previous thread I said this:
    It would be interesting to see figures on the cost of just pensions to the state, and on when the drop-off of us oldies dying off kicks in, how quickly, and the impact that will have.
    It doesn't, from Fidelity
    "The longer-term trend is clear. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that the total pensioner spending could rise to around 8% of GDP by 2072/73 - and potentially even more if the economy continues to suffer weaker and more volatile growth."

    That is very concerning.
    It's going to be a long and painful century.
    I gave that a Like because I'm afraid you may well be right, not because I like the idea.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    Not sure it is entirely pointless in that it forces the issue of capacity to be a bit more in the public debate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    Imagine the Dem reaction if the Republicans had tried the same on Biden four years ago, from the minority position.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    Trump banging on this afternoon about drilling the North Sea and no more windmills.

    Too stupid to see that his interventions make Lab minister less likely to do any changes as he is in favour.

    Let's hope he comes over to campaign for Farage in the May elections.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    edited April 14
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    It builds a narrative that weakens Republicans going into the midterms. Same as ‘sleepy Joe’
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2044096469594976619

    "It's her who's unacceptable" -- Trump in a new interview today attacked Italian Prime Minster Giorgia Meloni for criticizing his attacks on the Pope
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,239

    Trump banging on this afternoon about drilling the North Sea and no more windmills.

    Too stupid to see that his interventions make Lab minister less likely to do any changes as he is in favour.

    Let's hope he comes over to campaign for Farage in the May elections.

    For the May elections, we've had 3 letters by Royal Mail from Reform, one Focus leaflet and absolutely nothing from any other party. The incumbent Conservatives either don't have any money or they can't be bothered.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Just seen Lord Rooker crop up on Twitter talking about women’s rights.

    Got to say, what a lovely accent. It’s great to hear.

    Yes I can never understand why people describe the Brummy accent as terrible.
    That is because it is terrible.

    When I speak, my mind's ear hears James Mason, everyone else hears Jasper Carrot's "nutter on the bus".
    The good news is that almost no-one under 40 knows of Jasper Carrott.
    Oh come, he had some absolute classics.

    "I was at a Birmingham City match the other day, and I said to the guy next to me. OI! YOU! YES YOU OVER THERE!"
    Will you play Scunthorpe baths for £200……..I’ll drink Scunthorpe baths for £200
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,319
    edited April 14
    Clearly no country is going to sign up to something that you can’t leave . And the EU don’t want another UK psychodrama .

    The UK can’t just call another EU referendum without the EU actually agreeing to even contemplate the UK rejoining.

    It would be a waste of time to call a referendum and then the EU says sorry no thanks . There has to be a very strong majority in favour in polling and the terms of re-joining laid out clearly .

    Even though I’m very pro EU I think it might be better to contemplate EEA membership which comes without the CU, CFP and CAP.

    There are more restrictions on FOM within that .

    I think that’s more feasible and could happen more quickly .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2044096469594976619

    "It's her who's unacceptable" -- Trump in a new interview today attacked Italian Prime Minster Giorgia Meloni for criticizing his attacks on the Pope

    His reflexive attacks are just boring. He's capable of entertaining awfulness but he's lost the knack through laziness.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    Battlebus said:

    Trump banging on this afternoon about drilling the North Sea and no more windmills.

    Too stupid to see that his interventions make Lab minister less likely to do any changes as he is in favour.

    Let's hope he comes over to campaign for Farage in the May elections.

    For the May elections, we've had 3 letters by Royal Mail from Reform, one Focus leaflet and absolutely nothing from any other party. The incumbent Conservatives either don't have any money or they can't be bothered.
    Still two weeks.

    But yes it is possible Cons are saving their money as there is no point just burning it.

    They have to take their punishment beating.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Just seen Lord Rooker crop up on Twitter talking about women’s rights.

    Got to say, what a lovely accent. It’s great to hear.

    Yes I can never understand why people describe the Brummy accent as terrible.
    That is because it is terrible.

    When I speak, my mind's ear hears James Mason, everyone else hears Jasper Carrot's "nutter on the bus".
    The good news is that almost no-one under 40 knows of Jasper Carrott.
    Oh come, he had some absolute classics.

    "I was at a Birmingham City match the other day, and I said to the guy next to me. OI! YOU! YES YOU OVER THERE!"
    "Oi've got a mole, yaw know..."
    Difference between a buffalo and a bison

    Yor cor wash your hands in a buffalo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    edited April 14
    Trump now publically and pointlessly rowing with Meloni of Italy over whether the Pope is useless and weak on crime.

    Honestly, are Americans not wracked with fucking utter shame for how their country is now seen in the world?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,646

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2044096469594976619

    "It's her who's unacceptable" -- Trump in a new interview today attacked Italian Prime Minster Giorgia Meloni for criticizing his attacks on the Pope

    Pace Stalin the Pope is causing a lot of division amongst his opponents.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,319
    This is the thing with Trump you can support him 99 times out of a 100 .

    You disagree on one thing and then he has a major tirade .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    edited April 14
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Point of order: the oldest baby boomers are 80 now.

    I got de-threaded- at the end of the previous thread I said this:
    It would be interesting to see figures on the cost of just pensions to the state, and on when the drop-off of us oldies dying off kicks in, how quickly, and the impact that will have.
    It doesn't, from Fidelity
    "The longer-term trend is clear. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that the total pensioner spending could rise to around 8% of GDP by 2072/73 - and potentially even more if the economy continues to suffer weaker and more volatile growth."

    That is very concerning.
    It's going to be a long and painful century.
    On the bright side actuarilly I’m likely to see less than half of it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    The trouble is that these poll findings are inconsistent and people are poor at predicting their future behaviour.

    Well over half don't want closer alignment with EU laws and regulations, which is exactly what Rejoin is.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,872
    Thanks to Fishing for the previous header. And, no, it didn't support my slightly-informed conclusion about the economic impacts of Brexit. I have long thought they were mildly negative, but wondered why opponents were so fiercely opposed, but didn't bother to share their reasons.

    And so I tentatively concluded that the EU was intended to prevent World War I and World War II, which explained the fierceness -- though that seemed, to me, a problem that had been solved by 1945. (In contrast, NATO is intended to prevent WW III, at which it has succeeded, so far.)

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    edited April 14
    nico67 said:

    Clearly no country is going to sign up to something that you can’t leave . And the EU don’t want another UK psychodrama .

    The UK can’t just call another EU referendum without the EU actually agreeing to even contemplate the UK rejoining.

    It would be a waste of time to call a referendum and then the EU says sorry no thanks . There has to be a very strong majority in favour in polling and the terms of re-joining laid out clearly .

    Even though I’m very pro EU I think it might be better to contemplate EEA membership which comes without the CU, CFP and CAP.

    There are more restrictions on FOM within that .

    I think that’s more feasible and could happen more quickly .

    The EEA has more restrictions on FoM than EU membership? Interesting. Do you have a link?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    nico67 said:

    This is the thing with Trump you can support him 99 times out of a 100 .

    You disagree on one thing and then he has a major tirade .

    PB zoologists - what is the thinness skinned animal on the planet? He's one of them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    The collapse in the leave vote is heavily linked to Covid (and its economic impacts), the war in Ukraine (and its economic impacts) and the general feeling of national decline.

    Imagine if Remain had won and then covid and Ukraine had happened. What would Leave be polling now?
    Probably much as they are now, because an awful lot of what we've seen is the action of the Grim Reaper. Here's the Ipsos breakdown of the 2016 referendum by age:

    18-24: R75 L25
    25-34: R60 L40
    35-44: R55 L45
    45-54: R44 L56
    55-64: R39 L61
    65-74: R34 L66
    75+: R37 L63

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum

    Now roll those ages forward a decade. Leaverdom had to run very fast to stand still, and they haven't, because it hasn't been seen as a success. But a lot of what we're seeing looks like an identity thing. It's not that people have changed their minds, it's that the people have changed, and will continue to do so.

    (And before anyone starts, this isn't about wishing Leave voters dead, it's just observing that death comes to us all.)
    People become more conservative as they get older, though. So that works against the thesis.
    Historically that was the case, but it is much less true than it was. Increasingly age cohorts keep their voting preferences through the decades. It is an identity thing.
    And a wealth/age thing. What is the point of being conservative if you don't get the opportunity to build up wealth to conserve?
    The Conservatives failed to make any new Conservative voters. If you only focus on those that exist now, they grow older and older until you only represent pensioners.

    What is curious is what happens as the boomers die off (over the next couple of decades or so) and pass on an inheritance. Do those inheritors become Conservatives? Or is the legacy of renting and student fees too deep a wound to heal?
    The median experience might be to pass on the wealth to the next generation, so the generation that benefits might well become more conservative, even as their parents look on in confusion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    edited April 14
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    Imagine the Dem reaction if the Republicans had tried the same on Biden four years ago, from the minority position.
    If you look at the detail, he's suggesting a bipartisan commission. And it's not 'for Trump' - though the madman's increasing instability has prompted it - rather it's intended for all presidents.

    The (persuasive, IMO) argument is that there is otherwise no real mechanism for dealing with a mentally unfit president who has sole control of the power to destroy the planet.

    The 25th Amendment was never intended for that purpose, which has why, without modification, it's inadequate to the current situation.

    There's little or no prospect of this progressing through the current Congress, but I think it's still a respectable proposal.
    And I don't think it would have greatly bothered the Democrats while Biden was president. They would have had little to fear from it - and would have welcomed having it now.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858

    Battlebus said:

    Trump banging on this afternoon about drilling the North Sea and no more windmills.

    Too stupid to see that his interventions make Lab minister less likely to do any changes as he is in favour.

    Let's hope he comes over to campaign for Farage in the May elections.

    For the May elections, we've had 3 letters by Royal Mail from Reform, one Focus leaflet and absolutely nothing from any other party. The incumbent Conservatives either don't have any money or they can't be bothered.
    Still two weeks.

    But yes it is possible Cons are saving their money as there is no point just burning it.

    They have to take their punishment beating.
    Printing is dirt cheap, though. You don't even particularly need the special in-house printers that charge suspiciously low rates any more. (One of my favourite campaigns saw a visible decline in print quality as it became more desperate to do another leaflet from a declining budget.)

    The much harder bit is finding people to put the bits of paper through letterboxes. St Edward's ward, Romford, probably has about 3000 letterboxes. As they say, you do the maths...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    edited April 14
    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    There are 2 types of mistakes in life. Ones you can correct and ones you have to live with. It's as yet unclear which category Brexit falls into.

    We should live with the mistake in my view, we are where are and let's make the best of it. But we can't because living with the mistake means accepting suboptimal outcomes - we're poorer than we would otherwise be; have fewer freedoms; have to accept EU rules without a say; be in perpetual negotiation with the EU from a position of relative weakness; have reduced influence to get the things we want; etc.

    Remainers don't accept the suboptimal outcomes because they voted the other way to reject these things, and Leavers also don't accept the outcomes because they didn't vote Leave to have less say and make things worse

    Which is why the argument continues without resolution contrary to everyone's interest.
    Yes, I guess you're right. Certainly the country needs more distance from the last referendum before contemplating another one. They are divisive, sapping events with a long tail. Tbh although a hard remainer I don't see Brexit as ruinous or a tragedy. I more see it as self-indulgent and pointless.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2044096469594976619

    "It's her who's unacceptable" -- Trump in a new interview today attacked Italian Prime Minster Giorgia Meloni for criticizing his attacks on the Pope

    Yes, it's everyone but him.
    As always.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 579

    https://x.com/TheStalwart/status/2044045804596346931

    Basically the entire Iran war selloff has been erased

    That fits well with my portfolio.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    nico67 said:

    This is the thing with Trump you can support him 99 times out of a 100 .

    Very much not a thing for most people.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    The collapse in the leave vote is heavily linked to Covid (and its economic impacts), the war in Ukraine (and its economic impacts) and the general feeling of national decline.

    Imagine if Remain had won and then covid and Ukraine had happened. What would Leave be polling now?
    Probably much as they are now, because an awful lot of what we've seen is the action of the Grim Reaper. Here's the Ipsos breakdown of the 2016 referendum by age:

    18-24: R75 L25
    25-34: R60 L40
    35-44: R55 L45
    45-54: R44 L56
    55-64: R39 L61
    65-74: R34 L66
    75+: R37 L63

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum

    Now roll those ages forward a decade. Leaverdom had to run very fast to stand still, and they haven't, because it hasn't been seen as a success. But a lot of what we're seeing looks like an identity thing. It's not that people have changed their minds, it's that the people have changed, and will continue to do so.

    (And before anyone starts, this isn't about wishing Leave voters dead, it's just observing that death comes to us all.)
    People become more conservative as they get older, though. So that works against the thesis.
    Historically that was the case, but it is much less true than it was. Increasingly age cohorts keep their voting preferences through the decades. It is an identity thing.
    It's not obvious that being pro/anti the EU is a left/right issue. People now advocate that Labour make it a manifesto commitment to rejoin the EU. Back in 1983 it was a manifesto commitment that a Labour government would leave.

    So people might become more conservative as they age (if they were able to buy a house, etc), but that wouldn't make them anti the EU.
    Though of course the Conservative party in the Eighties was strongly pro-EU. The Single Market was very much Mrs Thatchers doing, and at the Conservative party conference decorated with EU flags alongside the Union Jack on at least one occasion.
    That was when it was the European Community and not the EU. And she had to be crowbared into the ERM as well.

    If you watch Thatcher's dispatch box performances and speeches in 1989-1990 post the Delors Speech, and as EMU came on the horizon, she was much firmer against it.

    Which is a key reason she was outed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589

    nico67 said:

    This is the thing with Trump you can support him 99 times out of a 100 .

    You disagree on one thing and then he has a major tirade .

    PB zoologists - what is the thinness skinned animal on the planet? He's one of them.
    Hippos are very thin skinned in relation to their size.
    Seems appropriate.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    nico67 said:

    The interesting figure is the wanting much closer relations in terms of trade at 39% but only 18% want much closer alignment with EU rules and laws .

    So not accepting you can’t really have one without the other .

    It's the gap through which any Stay Out campaign could drive a cart & horses through.

    They'd just have to frame it on Give Up Control, and Free Movement for anyone who wants to come here.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,293

    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
    Im still waiting for someone to explain how if the EU was so excellent for our economy how come we have slipped down all the ranking tables since we joined ?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    Dopermean said:

    Do we have any PBers who are Reform-voting Remainers or LibDem-voting Leavers?
    "Can you remember where you live, love?" :)

    Stodge is one of the latter.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 579

    The trouble is that these poll findings are inconsistent and people are poor at predicting their future behaviour.

    Well over half don't want closer alignment with EU laws and regulations, which is exactly what Rejoin is.

    It's almost as if the header headline is misleading....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,293
    Labour making a mess of Defence policy now
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    scampi25 said:

    The trouble is that these poll findings are inconsistent and people are poor at predicting their future behaviour.

    Well over half don't want closer alignment with EU laws and regulations, which is exactly what Rejoin is.

    It's almost as if the header headline is misleading....
    It's almost as though you and Casino are in denial over the large shift in public opinion since Brexit.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    boulay said:

    FF43 said:

    Consecutive threads on Brexit today, I know how to spoil PBers.

    *spoil PB.
    I promise no more Brexit threads this month unless something major happen or if there's a truly interesting Brexit poll.
    You probably know I'm only messing, I'm basically very happy that someone is willing to put in the effort to originate and shepherd discussions on any current topic :)
    Endorse this comment. I don't how you keep producing threads day after day getting engagement across the political spectrum. Truly wonderful.
    I have a lot of respect for all the people who write headers. I’m so intellectually lazy these days I sometimes think about submitting one but frankly I realise I can’t be arsed to do the research to back up the header so stick to reading and posting the odd asinine comment.

    I save the deep thinking and research for work otherwise my brain is a black void of sluggishness.
    I've made a small number of contributions and I decided my approach would be to see the article as a starting point for discussion, rather than as a rigourously researched academic article.

    Other contributors have taken a more thorough approach!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562

    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
    Im still waiting for someone to explain how if the EU was so excellent for our economy how come we have slipped down all the ranking tables since we joined ?

    And how the IMF thinks we'll be the fastest growing economy in Europe next year, not that they ever get much right.

    There are extra frictional costs at the border now, correct - but we Leavers always accepted that for the sovereignty and regulatory freedom.

    So why should we be convinced by an argument the other way?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2044096469594976619

    "It's her who's unacceptable" -- Trump in a new interview today attacked Italian Prime Minster Giorgia Meloni for criticizing his attacks on the Pope

    Unlike many of the other radical rightists, Meloni has consistently steered away from slavishly following Trump/MAGA most noticeably over her support for Ukraine. And no Italian politician in their right mind is going to side with a critic of the pope. But, also, I wonder if she is calibrating ahead of the midterms and the prospect of a weakened Trump, hobbled by a hostile congress.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Way offtopic, but might be of interest to some here (or their kids).

    British Airways has applications open, *for one week only*, for a cadet pilot academy scheme, a *fully-funded* air transport pilot’s licence with a very rare job for life at the end of it.

    If you were paying this yourself (to go work EasyJet or Ryanair) it would be somewhere around £250k and it’s not covered by a ‘student loan’.

    https://careers.ba.com/Speedbird-Pilot-Academy-Preparation

    Minimum age 17 on application, 18 at course start, no prior flying experience necessary (but it’s going to be very competitive, and most of the successful applicants probably will have some experience, even if it’s in gliders or air experience flights).

    Closes on 23rd April.

    More for the grandkids I think: I doubt BA will be bringing anyone on board who is older than about 25, and the youngest posters on here are probably in their early 80s.
    I'm surprised to find you're that old.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    Ed Miliband: “400,000 new clean energy jobs before 2030”

    Andrew Neil: “Doing what, exactly?”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/2044101074521579656
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,564
    edited April 14
    FF43 said:

    Consecutive threads on Brexit today, I know how to spoil PBers.

    *spoil PB.
    I promise no more Brexit threads this month unless something major happen or if there's a truly interesting Brexit poll.
    You probably know I'm only messing, I'm basically very happy that someone is willing to put in the effort to originate and shepherd discussions on any current topic :)
    Endorse this comment. I don't how you keep producing threads day after day getting engagement across the political spectrum. Truly wonderful.
    It's fun.

    For the last 26 years professionally I have to write stuff for wider dissemination, I use that skillset.

    To be honest, it's very easy to write threads.

    A good thread is like a skirt, long enough to cover the important bits but short enough to grab your attention.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442

    boulay said:

    FF43 said:

    Consecutive threads on Brexit today, I know how to spoil PBers.

    *spoil PB.
    I promise no more Brexit threads this month unless something major happen or if there's a truly interesting Brexit poll.
    You probably know I'm only messing, I'm basically very happy that someone is willing to put in the effort to originate and shepherd discussions on any current topic :)
    Endorse this comment. I don't how you keep producing threads day after day getting engagement across the political spectrum. Truly wonderful.
    I have a lot of respect for all the people who write headers. I’m so intellectually lazy these days I sometimes think about submitting one but frankly I realise I can’t be arsed to do the research to back up the header so stick to reading and posting the odd asinine comment.

    I save the deep thinking and research for work otherwise my brain is a black void of sluggishness.
    I've made a small number of contributions and I decided my approach would be to see the article as a starting point for discussion, rather than as a rigourously researched academic article.

    Other contributors have taken a more thorough approach!
    Yay to either. Well done to all contributors, and many thanks.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    Never forget that to really mess things up, you need a computer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    I would have thought, given how much prompting chatbots need to get even fairly simple questions right, that it could make things infinitely worse.

    Not least because by taking any old nonsense off the internet it will almost certainly spew an enormous amount of bullshit on any given political or economic point.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,319
    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Clearly no country is going to sign up to something that you can’t leave . And the EU don’t want another UK psychodrama .

    The UK can’t just call another EU referendum without the EU actually agreeing to even contemplate the UK rejoining.

    It would be a waste of time to call a referendum and then the EU says sorry no thanks . There has to be a very strong majority in favour in polling and the terms of re-joining laid out clearly .

    Even though I’m very pro EU I think it might be better to contemplate EEA membership which comes without the CU, CFP and CAP.

    There are more restrictions on FOM within that .

    I think that’s more feasible and could happen more quickly .

    The EEA has more restrictions on FoM than EU membership? Interesting. Do you have a link?

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/to-eea-or-not-to-eea/

    “More controversially, from the perspective of those who voted ‘leave’ in the referendum, the principle of free movement of persons applies. However, it is a more limited version of free movement, as it is not underpinned by the idea of citizenship of the Union.

    It gives rights to those who are economically active (workers, the self-employed) and those semi-economically active (students and persons of independent means) but not to the economically inactive.

    There is what might pass as an emergency brake on free movement: Article 112 states that ‘if serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties of a sectorial or regional nature liable to persist are arising, a contracting party may unilaterally take appropriate measures’ (subject to further procedures laid down in Article 113).”

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    ydoethur said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    I would have thought, given how much prompting chatbots need to get even fairly simple questions right, that it could make things infinitely worse.

    Not least because by taking any old nonsense off the internet it will almost certainly spew an enormous amount of bullshit on any given political or economic point.
    Amazing she's not using one, really.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
    Im still waiting for someone to explain how if the EU was so excellent for our economy how come we have slipped down all the ranking tables since we joined ?

    And how the IMF thinks we'll be the fastest growing economy in Europe next year, not that they ever get much right.

    There are extra frictional costs at the border now, correct - but we Leavers always accepted that for the sovereignty and regulatory freedom.

    So why should we be convinced by an argument the other way?
    IMF?

    What does The Syndicate think?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    Politics - admitting using LLMs would anger some people. Saying you don’t use them won’t really anger advocates.

    Meanwhile everything her staff does probably goes through ChatGPT. And I mean ChatGPT.

    The younger generation are addicted to LLMs already. Though all to many are not various curious about quality of outputs, or the choice of models. Seen lots of vibe coding problems because of this.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    What a lot of stupid questions.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    A reminder of the enormous hurdles Magyar has overcome - having now won the election by a landslide, he is only now getting to appear on Hungarian public TV at all.
    https://x.com/TrueSlazac/status/2044011270332920082
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748
    AnneJGP said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    Never forget that to really mess things up, you need a computer.
    :)
    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,319
    Nigelb said:

    A reminder of the enormous hurdles Magyar has overcome - having now won the election by a landslide, he is only now getting to appear on Hungarian public TV at all.
    https://x.com/TrueSlazac/status/2044011270332920082

    We often berate social media but without the internet he would have had no chance of winning the election .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371

    4% of the public heard about oil/ fuel prices and just 2% the Strait of Hormuz

    And Trump [general] 5% !!!!


    https://x.com/i/status/2044078406778704134

    If a Cardassian's arse fell off, it would no doubt register at 94%.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Dopermean said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Point of order: the oldest baby boomers are 80 now.

    I got de-threaded- at the end of the previous thread I said this:
    It would be interesting to see figures on the cost of just pensions to the state, and on when the drop-off of us oldies dying off kicks in, how quickly, and the impact that will have.
    It doesn't, from Fidelity
    "The longer-term trend is clear. The Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast that the total pensioner spending could rise to around 8% of GDP by 2072/73 - and potentially even more if the economy continues to suffer weaker and more volatile growth."

    That is very concerning.
    It's going to be a long and painful century.
    On the bright side actuarilly I’m likely to see less than half of it.
    That's the spirit!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    Good craic from wor Rachel tbf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    Imagine the Dem reaction if the Republicans had tried the same on Biden four years ago, from the minority position.
    The Republicans probably should have done in four years ago.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Clearly no country is going to sign up to something that you can’t leave . And the EU don’t want another UK psychodrama .

    The UK can’t just call another EU referendum without the EU actually agreeing to even contemplate the UK rejoining.

    It would be a waste of time to call a referendum and then the EU says sorry no thanks . There has to be a very strong majority in favour in polling and the terms of re-joining laid out clearly .

    Even though I’m very pro EU I think it might be better to contemplate EEA membership which comes without the CU, CFP and CAP.

    There are more restrictions on FOM within that .

    I think that’s more feasible and could happen more quickly .

    The EEA has more restrictions on FoM than EU membership? Interesting. Do you have a link?

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/to-eea-or-not-to-eea/

    “More controversially, from the perspective of those who voted ‘leave’ in the referendum, the principle of free movement of persons applies. However, it is a more limited version of free movement, as it is not underpinned by the idea of citizenship of the Union.

    It gives rights to those who are economically active (workers, the self-employed) and those semi-economically active (students and persons of independent means) but not to the economically inactive.

    There is what might pass as an emergency brake on free movement: Article 112 states that ‘if serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties of a sectorial or regional nature liable to persist are arising, a contracting party may unilaterally take appropriate measures’ (subject to further procedures laid down in Article 113).”

    I believe Lietchenstein has had a permanent emergency brake (or at least some degree of limitations) on free movement.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I remember when Stats for Lefties said Your Party would do well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    edited April 14
    Sandpit said:

    Ed Miliband: “400,000 new clean energy jobs before 2030”

    Andrew Neil: “Doing what, exactly?”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/2044101074521579656

    400,000 Albanians using skills they developed at hand car washes, cleaning grime off the panels at solar farms...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    I really cant see why there's such surprise when the Pope is criticised by an Orangeman

    Very good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    Andy_JS said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    What a lot of stupid questions.
    It's mumsnet.

    In fairness 'proper' journalists ask stupid questions too as it gets clicks, there's not much incentive to be good, and even less incentive for a politician to engage with you if you are.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Andy_JS said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    What a lot of stupid questions.
    Typical of an LLM.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    4% of the public heard about oil/ fuel prices and just 2% the Strait of Hormuz

    And Trump [general] 5% !!!!


    https://x.com/i/status/2044078406778704134

    If a Cardassian's arse fell off, it would no doubt register at 94%.
    In the event that the German invaded in WWII and won -

    - 1/3rd of the population would have taken to the hills to fight on.
    - 1/3rd would have queued round the block to get an arm band and become “a piss ant with an anthill to piss from”.
    -1/3rd would not have noticed. Unless the football was interrupted.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755
    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    Indeed. Ref/Con coalition, Green as official opposition.
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835t

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    The incredulity on MUmsnet suggests they are all using AI for advice on parenting skills.

    What could possibly go wrong?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    ydoethur said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    I would have thought, given how much prompting chatbots need to get even fairly simple questions right, that it could make things infinitely worse.

    Not least because by taking any old nonsense off the internet it will almost certainly spew an enormous amount of bullshit on any given political or economic point.
    There's use to be had, but the top advocates massively oversell capabilities and the casual users are too lazy and incuriously uncritical to get good use out of them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I think Labour being ahead on most seats is probably the most likely outcome of the next GE right now.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    What a lot of stupid questions.
    It's mumsnet.

    In fairness 'proper' journalists ask stupid questions too as it gets clicks, there's not much incentive to be good, and even less incentive for a politician to engage with you if you are.
    Which explains why we get crap politics.

    Democracy isn't a spectator sport, you have to get involved.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    4% of the public heard about oil/ fuel prices and just 2% the Strait of Hormuz

    And Trump [general] 5% !!!!


    https://x.com/i/status/2044078406778704134

    If a Cardassian's arse fell off, it would no doubt register at 94%.
    94%?


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    edited April 14

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    The incredulity on MUmsnet suggests they are all using AI for advice on parenting skills.

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Mum: The baby won’t stop crying. What should I do?

    AI: Just let me talk to it
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305

    4% of the public heard about oil/ fuel prices and just 2% the Strait of Hormuz

    And Trump [general] 5% !!!!


    https://x.com/i/status/2044078406778704134

    If a Cardassian's arse fell off, it would no doubt register at 94%.
    Ah, so that is what Trump was on the verge of dropping on Iran.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Rachel Reeves interviewed by Mumsnet:

    https://www.mumsnet.com/i/rachel-reeves-mumsnet-asks

    Justine Roberts: I’ve got an alternative modern-day question — which is which is your favourite AI chatbot? What do you use?

    Rachel Reeves: I don’t use anything.

    Justine Roberts: You don't use any? None of the LLMs?

    Rachel Reeves: No.

    Justine Roberts: It could really help.

    Rachel Reeves: Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.

    What a lot of stupid questions.
    It's mumsnet.

    In fairness 'proper' journalists ask stupid questions too as it gets clicks, there's not much incentive to be good, and even less incentive for a politician to engage with you if you are.
    Which explains why we get crap politics.

    Democracy isn't a spectator sport, you have to get involved.
    You should. But you can get to the top without doing so and then rely on distraction and gestures.

    Not enough unspectacular grind, and too easy to escape critical moments without developing competing skills.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I think Labour being ahead on most seats is probably the most likely outcome of the next GE right now.
    For once casino, we are in full agreement.

    Labour back up to 30% ish by GE imho
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    edited April 14
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    Indeed. Ref/Con coalition, Green as official opposition.
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835t

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835
    I'm in a remaining Con seat. Heartland territory of posh southerners.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748

    I really cant see why there's such surprise when the Pope is criticised by an Orangeman

    "I have made a peaceful and legitimate request for the Pope to support my glorious war against Iran!"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755

    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
    Im still waiting for someone to explain how if the EU was so excellent for our economy how come we have slipped down all the ranking tables since we joined ?

    And how the IMF thinks we'll be the fastest growing economy in Europe next year, not that they ever get much right.

    There are extra frictional costs at the border now, correct - but we Leavers always accepted that for the sovereignty and regulatory freedom.

    So why should we be convinced by an argument the other way?
    IMF?

    What does The Syndicate think?
    DNI: I'm the goddamn Director of National Intelligence what exactly is it I'm not supposed to know about?
    CIA: The IMF
    DNI: The World Bank?
    CIA: No that's the international monetary fund. I mean the other IMF
    DNI: What's it stand for?
    CIA: The Impossible Missions Force
    DNI: you're not serious...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    Indeed. Ref/Con coalition, Green as official opposition.
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835t

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835
    I'm in a remaining Con seat. Heartland territory of posh southerners.
    I am likely represented here by the Shadow Communities Secretary.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @andrewsolender.bsky.social‬

    NEW: Raskin, w/ 50 House Dem co-sponsors, formally introduces a bill which would create a commission to assess Trump's fitness for office under the 25th Amendment.

    https://bsky.app/profile/andrewsolender.bsky.social/post/3mjhr43ywvc2f

    Much as I hate the man and think he is clearly losing it, it's a pointless piece of theatre at this point.
    Imagine the Dem reaction if the Republicans had tried the same on Biden four years ago, from the minority position.
    If you look at the detail, he's suggesting a bipartisan commission. And it's not 'for Trump' - though the madman's increasing instability has prompted it - rather it's intended for all presidents.

    The (persuasive, IMO) argument is that there is otherwise no real mechanism for dealing with a mentally unfit president who has sole control of the power to destroy the planet.

    The 25th Amendment was never intended for that purpose, which has why, without modification, it's inadequate to the current situation.

    There's little or no prospect of this progressing through the current Congress, but I think it's still a respectable proposal.
    And I don't think it would have greatly bothered the Democrats while Biden was president. They would have had little to fear from it - and would have welcomed having it now.
    Trump has become fully unhinged and we should talk about it.
    https://x.com/HillaryClinton/status/2043703648618688582
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I think Labour being ahead on most seats is probably the most likely outcome of the next GE right now.
    For once casino, we are in full agreement.

    Labour back up to 30% ish by GE imho
    The Green surge may be real, but it's very sudden even though they've been about for decades. Despite the impressive impact from Polanski they are no different than they were 2 years ago.

    So i'd be concerned with their staying power and how firm switchers are.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,439
    eek said:

    Got to ask how much of this is because of the complexity of getting through European border control

    Linate was efficient today (or no less efficient than normal).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    It is pretty obvious to anyone who goes on holiday or business to the EU that Brexit was folly and that the Europeans have a better life than us, except perhaps in the areas of Britain that voted Remain.

    Leavers are still resentful of the failure of their precious, which becomes more obvious over time. No one likes being slapped in the face by their poor choice every time they visit.
    It's not obvious at all, and I don't think they do - not a bit of it. Brexit hasn't affected my European experience at all.

    You're projecting.
    Im still waiting for someone to explain how if the EU was so excellent for our economy how come we have slipped down all the ranking tables since we joined ?

    And how the IMF thinks we'll be the fastest growing economy in Europe next year, not that they ever get much right.

    There are extra frictional costs at the border now, correct - but we Leavers always accepted that for the sovereignty and regulatory freedom.

    So why should we be convinced by an argument the other way?
    IMF?

    What does The Syndicate think?
    DNI: I'm the goddamn Director of National Intelligence what exactly is it I'm not supposed to know about?
    CIA: The IMF
    DNI: The World Bank?
    CIA: No that's the international monetary fund. I mean the other IMF
    DNI: What's it stand for?
    CIA: The Impossible Missions Force
    DNI: you're not serious...
    Any secret organisation that stamps it's logo on things is not secret.

    Do they have in house designers or glass stencillers, or do they contract out? Either way people know.

    See also Hydra.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305

    eek said:

    Got to ask how much of this is because of the complexity of getting through European border control

    Linate was efficient today (or no less efficient than normal).
    There is no British airport close to the level of rubbishness of Linate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424

    The collapse in the Leave vote is quite amazing. I always assumed that sheer emotion alone would have kept it around 50%. That this hasn't happened demonstrates the plunging ineptitude of those tasked with making Brexit a success. Or were they only interested in getting the thing over the line and didn't give a hoot about what followed?

    The collapse in the leave vote is heavily linked to Covid (and its economic impacts), the war in Ukraine (and its economic impacts) and the general feeling of national decline.

    Imagine if Remain had won and then covid and Ukraine had happened. What would Leave be polling now?
    Probably much as they are now, because an awful lot of what we've seen is the action of the Grim Reaper. Here's the Ipsos breakdown of the 2016 referendum by age:

    18-24: R75 L25
    25-34: R60 L40
    35-44: R55 L45
    45-54: R44 L56
    55-64: R39 L61
    65-74: R34 L66
    75+: R37 L63

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum

    Now roll those ages forward a decade. Leaverdom had to run very fast to stand still, and they haven't, because it hasn't been seen as a success. But a lot of what we're seeing looks like an identity thing. It's not that people have changed their minds, it's that the people have changed, and will continue to do so.

    (And before anyone starts, this isn't about wishing Leave voters dead, it's just observing that death comes to us all.)
    Just sooner, if you voted leave? ;)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,439
    nico67 said:

    The interesting figure is the wanting much closer relations in terms of trade at 39% but only 18% want much closer alignment with EU rules and laws .

    So not accepting you can’t really have one without the other .

    You can - you can have mutual recognition.

    Which is the rational position for two mature well regulated economies to adopt. But the Brussels- fanatics refuse the concept
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371

    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I remember when Stats for Lefties said Your Party would do well.
    Who will we forget first - Your Party or Stats for Lefties?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    nico67 said:

    carnforth said:

    nico67 said:

    Clearly no country is going to sign up to something that you can’t leave . And the EU don’t want another UK psychodrama .

    The UK can’t just call another EU referendum without the EU actually agreeing to even contemplate the UK rejoining.

    It would be a waste of time to call a referendum and then the EU says sorry no thanks . There has to be a very strong majority in favour in polling and the terms of re-joining laid out clearly .

    Even though I’m very pro EU I think it might be better to contemplate EEA membership which comes without the CU, CFP and CAP.

    There are more restrictions on FOM within that .

    I think that’s more feasible and could happen more quickly .

    The EEA has more restrictions on FoM than EU membership? Interesting. Do you have a link?

    https://ukandeu.ac.uk/to-eea-or-not-to-eea/

    “More controversially, from the perspective of those who voted ‘leave’ in the referendum, the principle of free movement of persons applies. However, it is a more limited version of free movement, as it is not underpinned by the idea of citizenship of the Union.

    It gives rights to those who are economically active (workers, the self-employed) and those semi-economically active (students and persons of independent means) but not to the economically inactive.

    There is what might pass as an emergency brake on free movement: Article 112 states that ‘if serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties of a sectorial or regional nature liable to persist are arising, a contracting party may unilaterally take appropriate measures’ (subject to further procedures laid down in Article 113).”

    Thanks! I didn't know that.

    However, I don't think we have the appetite for inspecting household finances, withdrawing benefits from EU citizens, and doing actual deportations. I can't see it working in practical terms. Self-employment income drops below a certain level this year? Deport your family. Does Norway, for example, really do this?

    I'd be much more interested in whether or not they would have access to public funds. If FoM was on a no access to public funds basis, I think we might still be in the EU.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    edited April 14

    Andy_JS said:

    Stats For Lefties thinks the latest YouGov poll would result in Labour winning 34 seats.

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/2043973107333865835

    I think Labour being ahead on most seats is probably the most likely outcome of the next GE right now.
    For once casino, we are in full agreement.

    Labour back up to 30% ish by GE imho
    Could be better than that if you are a Labour voter. Looking at all the polls of the last several months most give an aggregate of Labour and Green at between 35-37%. Round and about where they were at the last election.

    Reform look like they'll pick up the Tory anti EU vote. Say 30% between them and the rump Tories. I can't see any tactical voting between those two losers so as you were and we'll all live happily ever after.

    Obviously the Libs will keep therir seats and Labour/Green will get a new leader with a personality. Possibly a redheaded female
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,439

    4% of the public heard about oil/ fuel prices and just 2% the Strait of Hormuz

    And Trump [general] 5% !!!!


    https://x.com/i/status/2044078406778704134

    That’s what they heard most last week. And 51% was Iran (general)… which is surprising low!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    There are 2 types of mistakes in life. Ones you can correct and ones you have to live with. It's as yet unclear which category Brexit falls into.

    Or one you can ameliorate

    Closer friendly ties but not full rejoin
    No point at present, certainly until brave Sir Nigel has been put back in his box. No hokey cokey associate membership thank you.
    He’s doing some shit with Crapto now which has, amazingly, triggered the Lib Dims.

    Grifters gonna grift

    Twisters gonna twist.
    I read that this crypto vehicle is a massive ruse so Musk will be able to legitimately buy into it in order to bankroll the first Farage Government campaign. Luvvly Jubbly!
    I doubt it. From Musk's point of view, why should he bankroll Farage when Reform's treasurer is himself a billionaire? More likely imo is Nige betting Musk will dump some of the SpaceX flotation proceeds into Bitcoin and drive the price up.
This discussion has been closed.