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Vichy 2.0 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,987
edited March 6 in General
Vichy 2.0 – politicalbetting.com

Those of who want the best for Iran and her people one of the worst outcomes would be a new leader chosen by the Americans, it would be a Vichy government for a new government which is why I think Trump’s intervention is bad.

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896
    edited March 6
    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068
    So they would be led by the Vichy shahs?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,235
    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,334
    edited March 6
    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,664
    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    He's not Hitler.

    But a foreign country imposing a leader on the people is a bad idea.

    If I wanted to be incendiary I would have used Vidkun Quisling.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896
    As far as monarchy is concerned, hasn't Trump already dismissed the chances of Pahlavi minor ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    He's not Hitler.

    But a foreign country imposing a leader on the people is a bad idea.

    If I wanted to be incendiary I would have used Vidkun Quisling.
    I still like Kermit 2.0, both as a reference to Roosevelt K., and the fact that whomever Trump chose would be a puppet, and probably a muppet into the bargain.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,334
    Nigelb said:

    As far as monarchy is concerned, hasn't Trump already dismissed the chances of Pahlavi minor ?

    It's different minors he's interested in...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068
    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    The looming mid-terms probably do constraint the timeline. If this hasn't escalated into something much bigger by then, Trump will want to impose some kind of outcome and declare victory in order to claim victory.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,786

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,885

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    He's not Hitler.

    But a foreign country imposing a leader on the people is a bad idea.

    If I wanted to be incendiary I would have used Vidkun Quisling.
    Not yet. He's got at least three more years to get there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,261
    Nigelb said:
    How do Reivers clean their spears?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,334
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

    Yep, most underrated comic actor of the 70 s
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,020

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

    Yep, most underrated comic actor of the 70 s
    I'd say he was highly rated. I've never heard anything but praise for him. RIP anyway, though.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,938
    Yeah let's have the Americans choose the leader of Iran. That has always worked out really well in the past.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,163
    tlg86 said:
    Tell me you are a pompous upper middle class Guardian reading snob without telling me...

    "One latte from Pret a Manger costs more than £4 alone"

    Yep - a latte from Pret a Manger is your price comparison! Gotta love Polly Filla
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840
    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    The Senate map is still tough for Democrats, even given the latest Trump stupidity.

    Let’s say they manage to win Maine, North Carolina and Ohio (probably the most likely three) - that gets them to 50-50 (so a Vance tiebreak). That is assuming they hold on to Georgia and Michigan (not guaranteed).

    For a majority you’re looking at them picking up at least one of the next plausible three - Alaska, Texas, Florida. All of those are to varying degrees challenging. Alaska might be the best bet (as Peltola has won a statewide race before). I wouldn’t bet on Florida shifting given how significantly it has swung to the GOP in recent years, and Texas must still be a long shot.

    Even if they win all three of those, that’s then 53-47, and some way from the two thirds needed to convict. To get closer they’d need to win seats like Iowa and Montana, far from fertile ground, and then states like Kansas, Kentucky, Nebraska - which just look far too insurmountable to me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,339
    A former staffer to ex-Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson has had his property searched by police in connection to an ongoing investigation into Chinese espionage. Police doing a lot in quick succession…

    James Robinson was director of communications for Watson from 2015 to 2018, after which he founded a PR agency. He is also married to GB News presenter and former Labour MP Gloria de Piero.

    https://order-order.com/2026/03/06/police-search-house-of-ex-tom-watson-aide-in-china-spy-investigation/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,163

    A former staffer to ex-Labour Deputy Leader Tom Watson has had his property searched by police in connection to an ongoing investigation into Chinese espionage. Police doing a lot in quick succession…

    James Robinson was director of communications for Watson from 2015 to 2018, after which he founded a PR agency. He is also married to GB News presenter and former Labour MP Gloria de Piero.

    https://order-order.com/2026/03/06/police-search-house-of-ex-tom-watson-aide-in-china-spy-investigation/

    Tom Watson? I would laugh and laugh. Odious slime that he is.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,694
    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,786
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

    Yep, most underrated comic actor of the 70 s
    I'd say he was highly rated. I've never heard anything but praise for him. RIP anyway, though.
    Perry and Croft weren’t enamoured
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068
    The US can afford chaos in the Middle East much more than Europe or Asia can:

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029948080267649344

    Burgum: "With the Venezuela partnership we have an opportunity to move the geopolitical center from the Middle East to the Western Hemisphere. Without President Trump's bold, courageous, decisive leadership, we wouldn't even be talking about these incredible strategic alternatives."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,886
    edited March 6
    Nigelb said:
    [pedant mode on]
    It can't be with the original cast, because Wash and Shepherd Book died in "Serenity"
    [pedant mode off]
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,567
    If Iran does head for a de facto Monarchy, it will only be following the USA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:
    [pedant mode on]
    It can't be with the original cast, because Wash and Shepherd Book died in "Serenity"
    [pedant mode off]
    This is SF we're talking about - there's always a way to bring characters back.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,187
    Trump has screwed everyone with tariffs and is now going to screw the global economy with energy prices .
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,694

    Nigelb said:

    As far as monarchy is concerned, hasn't Trump already dismissed the chances of Pahlavi minor ?

    If you look at North Africa/Middle East, those countries that retained their monarchies (Morocco, Jordan, UAE, Oman, Saudi) have fared, on the whole, rather better than those that overthrew them (Libya, Iraq, Iran) with Egypt as an arguable maybe. The monarchies are not perfect but they are certainly better than the crazed dictatorships which is the usual alternative.

    Iran could do a lot worse than a constitutional monarchy with Reza Pahlavi who would have a very strong interest in stability, unity and excluding extremists. Probably too much to hope for.
    Iran was doing okay as a constitutional monarchy until the Brits and the Yanks persuaded the Shah to take direct control from the democratically-elected Prime Minister who was a bit too lefty for their liking.

    Another example of an intervention backfiring in a big way, and an argument for non-intervention unless there's a very strong case otherwise. It's much easier to break an egg than to repair one.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,235

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I accept it is unlikely, but my thinking is that the odds are not zero... so what are they?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,339
    edited March 6
    nico67 said:

    Trump has screwed everyone with tariffs and is now going to screw the global economy with energy prices .

    Well he does have a long record of screwing people.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241
    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,444
    Nigelb said:
    They're probably all too old. Unless they go the animation route.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,187
    edited March 6

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241
    Cookie said:

    I strongly disagree with TSE on this. The worst outcome is the mullahs, or anetwork of local bastards. A new shah subservient to American interests wouldn't be great, but wouldbe significantly better for the Iranian people. My understanding, slight though it is, is that this is also the view of Iranians.
    A government in hock to Donald Trump is not as bas as a government subservient to the Iranians' furious god. Both are arbitrary and spiteful and vengeant, but at least the former will die one day.

    Trump says many things. I don't see how he's going to enforce his choice on Iran.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,896
    edited March 6
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

    Yep, most underrated comic actor of the 70 s
    I'd say he was highly rated. I've never heard anything but praise for him. RIP anyway, though.
    He was a great comic, but I think also a very fine actor, which he probably didn't get as much credit for.
    See, for example, these recollections:
    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/oct/04/leonard-rossiter-rising-damp-fall-and-rise-of-reginald-perrin
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,549
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,054
    edited March 6
    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly damage limitation will eventually kick in, which means doing some kind of deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.


    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840
    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,798

    tlg86 said:
    Tell me you are a pompous upper middle class Guardian reading snob without telling me...

    "One latte from Pret a Manger costs more than £4 alone"

    Yep - a latte from Pret a Manger is your price comparison! Gotta love Polly Filla
    This bit is really revealing as well.

    One latte from Pret a Manger costs more than £4 alone, while on average UK households are now spending between £25 and £50 a month on streaming services, far more for far less than the BBC. You can get Netflix for £5.99 a month, but with endless ads and, of course, no news.)


    If people are spending £25 to £50 a month on streaming services, it's because they want to. It's not mandatory for viewing any broadcast.

    The truth is that for £5.99 that Netflix basic sub is a lot better value for many people than the BBC's entire output. People have voted with their wallet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068
    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,694
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I accept it is unlikely, but my thinking is that the odds are not zero... so what are they?
    The safest State in this cycle for the Republicans is Wyoming, which is R+23, followed by West Virginia (R+21) and a bunch more in the high-teens.

    The only conceivable scenario in which it is possible is one in which war drags on, there's a major MAGA split on the continuance of the war, the Libertarians stand candidates in all the Republican-held Senate contests and split the vote sufficiently to let Democrats come through the middle.

    And, even then, I'm sure some of the Republican Senators would have sufficiently strong isolationist bona fides to avoid defeat. All this presupposing that TACO Trump doesn't end the war when it becomes sufficiently unpopular.

    I have no difficulty in assigning that a zero probability.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,261

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
    During the Battle of Britain, civil servants were drafting the occupation plan for Germany.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
    During the Battle of Britain, civil servants were drafting the occupation plan for Germany.
    1940 is after 1939, and in any case, I'm fairly sure the US has had plenty of plans for Iran sitting on the shelf for decades.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,694

    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
    The thing is I don't think Trump is that invested in the war. He's not ideologically committed to it in the way that Putin is to the conquest of Ukraine.

    So in the politically worst-case scenario Trump simply ends the war, declares victory, and distracts everyone with half a dozen new crazy things.

    I'd say there's a better than evens chance that Iran will barely be mentioned in news bulletins by Easter. The circus will have moved on.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,444

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    And if you don't like it then he's got a Royal Chainsaw out the back.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,334

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
    During the Battle of Britain, civil servants were drafting the occupation plan for Germany.
    1940 is after 1939, and in any case, I'm fairly sure the US has had plenty of plans for Iran sitting on the shelf for decades.
    In 1939 and 1940 Britain was concentrating more on defence and survival rather than planning the new Germany. Also USA wasn't in the war till 1941.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,910

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    One of the most interesting phenomena in geopolitics is how Islamic worship is FALLING in core Islamic countries - in Iran it is in total freefall - but rising and becoming more conservative in peripheral Islamic countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. And in the western Muslim diaspora
  • eekeek Posts: 32,762

    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
    The thing is I don't think Trump is that invested in the war. He's not ideologically committed to it in the way that Putin is to the conquest of Ukraine.

    So in the politically worst-case scenario Trump simply ends the war, declares victory, and distracts everyone with half a dozen new crazy things.

    I'd say there's a better than evens chance that Iran will barely be mentioned in news bulletins by Easter. The circus will have moved on.
    If Iran continues to throw missiles and drones in all directions then the war continues - regardless of what Trump wants.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,054

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    I suspect the ME is secularising a bit, but you don't have to be a religious nut to be very anti-Israel.

    Also most people in the region are Muslims. It's their identity; who they are. But I don't think most were that fanatical before.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,387

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    Whatever were the dynamics and alliances a fortnight ago, they’ve all been flipped on their heads by events of the past few days.

    Everyone in the region is now united in seeing Iran as the enemy, and willing on the US and Israel to defeat them militarily. There’s little doubt the GCC states would have responded militarily to the threat.

    Everyone wants the Straight of Hormuz open ASAP, including China. I suspect that by early next week there’s mechanisms in place to enable this to happen. It’s simply too important to global trade to be closed, which is why the Iran navy was one of the first targets of the operation.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,221

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Yes, even I can cheerfully concede it's been a remarkable turn of events.

    The cynic in me looks at this piece and sees the emphasis on oil supply:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9g1l5jx90o

    We are in what Fallout called "the Resource Wars" (we have been for a while I suspect) where it isn't any longer about ideology or faith but simply energy or rather raw materials.

    I suspect Delcy Rodriguez sold out Maduro to the Americans and facilitated his seizure by US Special Forces. She was basically given a free hand in the running of Venezuela (as with many revolutionaries, her loyalty wasn't to red but to green) in exchange for ensuring American control of Venezulean oil and its supply to the US.

    This sounds like a "new" foreign policy but it isn't. Replacing the uncorruptible ideologue with the corruptible pragmatist has happened before and it will happen again. Revolutions can be bought and sold just like socks or shoes if you have the money.

    As for Iran, it's more of a challenge. Clerics aren't as susceptible to the blandishments of money as revolutionaries so there needs to be a different approach but ultimately I suspect a leader for Iran will be bought and paid for and he will take over as head of a new Government who will be more pragmatic and friendly to Washington.

    I imagine the plan for Cuba will be a hybrid approach - kidnap or kill the main leadership and find someone further down the tree who will be bought and paid for but it will happen "in the name of the Revolution".

    It's not a million miles away from how Moscow ran the Warsaw Pact from 1945 to 1989 - moderate leaders like Nagy and Dubcek went too far and were "replaced" by more compliant leaders and when Gorbachev took over, the hardline neo-Stalinists were themselves on borrowed time.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,167
    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
    The thing is I don't think Trump is that invested in the war. He's not ideologically committed to it in the way that Putin is to the conquest of Ukraine.

    So in the politically worst-case scenario Trump simply ends the war, declares victory, and distracts everyone with half a dozen new crazy things.

    I'd say there's a better than evens chance that Iran will barely be mentioned in news bulletins by Easter. The circus will have moved on.
    If Iran continues to throw missiles and drones in all directions then the war continues - regardless of what Trump wants.
    He's so utterly deranged that I can see Farage returning from Florida with a MAGA edict that Farage is made PM by 1 June or Trump will attack UK
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840

    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
    The thing is I don't think Trump is that invested in the war. He's not ideologically committed to it in the way that Putin is to the conquest of Ukraine.

    So in the politically worst-case scenario Trump simply ends the war, declares victory, and distracts everyone with half a dozen new crazy things.

    I'd say there's a better than evens chance that Iran will barely be mentioned in news bulletins by Easter. The circus will have moved on.
    Quite possibly, though wars can have a habit of taking on lives of their own. Once you have made the commitment to war, a whole infrastructure grows up around you, a chain of command. That tends to be self-sustaining if the conflict is wide enough. It’s why Trump has tended to go for precision strikes and Venezuela-style tactics. This is by some magnitude wider than that. For one thing, it involves other countries now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,261

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
    During the Battle of Britain, civil servants were drafting the occupation plan for Germany.
    1940 is after 1939, and in any case, I'm fairly sure the US has had plenty of plans for Iran sitting on the shelf for decades.
    In 1939 and 1940 Britain was concentrating more on defence and survival rather than planning the new Germany. Also USA wasn't in the war till 1941.
    The point was that planning started at that point in the war.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,603
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    One of the most interesting phenomena in geopolitics is how Islamic worship is FALLING in core Islamic countries - in Iran it is in total freefall - but rising and becoming more conservative in peripheral Islamic countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. And in the western Muslim diaspora
    In countries like those you mention Arab-type Islam has been aggressively seeking to displace the older-style Moslem approach which was far more accommodating to the local culture and traditions. Maybe it develops a kind of missionary zeal in areas where it has a frontier and rivals to contend with?

    BTW, V S Naipaul - maybe the most consequential English language writer of late C20th? - was writing about this years ago in "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998).

    Been a long time coming. Fateful consequences.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,465
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    Nigelb said:

    Vichy ?
    I despise Trump, but he's not quite Hitler.

    More of a Kermit 2.0 ?

    More like a Marshal Petomane?

    (Geddit?)
    Leonard Rossiter RIP

    Yep, most underrated comic actor of the 70 s
    I'd say he was highly rated. I've never heard anything but praise for him. RIP anyway, though.
    A fine actor, but apparently difficult to work with.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Has he? He's somewhat constrained Venezuela's support for Cuba, but that's about all. They're certainly not any sort of reliable US ally and are probably still feeding back info to Russia.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241
    stodge said:

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Yes, even I can cheerfully concede it's been a remarkable turn of events.

    The cynic in me looks at this piece and sees the emphasis on oil supply:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9g1l5jx90o

    We are in what Fallout called "the Resource Wars" (we have been for a while I suspect) where it isn't any longer about ideology or faith but simply energy or rather raw materials.

    I suspect Delcy Rodriguez sold out Maduro to the Americans and facilitated his seizure by US Special Forces. She was basically given a free hand in the running of Venezuela (as with many revolutionaries, her loyalty wasn't to red but to green) in exchange for ensuring American control of Venezulean oil and its supply to the US.

    This sounds like a "new" foreign policy but it isn't. Replacing the uncorruptible ideologue with the corruptible pragmatist has happened before and it will happen again. Revolutions can be bought and sold just like socks or shoes if you have the money.

    As for Iran, it's more of a challenge. Clerics aren't as susceptible to the blandishments of money as revolutionaries so there needs to be a different approach but ultimately I suspect a leader for Iran will be bought and paid for and he will take over as head of a new Government who will be more pragmatic and friendly to Washington.

    I imagine the plan for Cuba will be a hybrid approach - kidnap or kill the main leadership and find someone further down the tree who will be bought and paid for but it will happen "in the name of the Revolution".

    It's not a million miles away from how Moscow ran the Warsaw Pact from 1945 to 1989 - moderate leaders like Nagy and Dubcek went too far and were "replaced" by more compliant leaders and when Gorbachev took over, the hardline neo-Stalinists were themselves on borrowed time.
    The US and Venezuela re-establishing diplomatic ties is arguably a win for Venezuela after concessions by the US. The US used to not want to talk to Chavistas, but they've now abandoned that stance.

    The other important context is that Trump is doing this for access to oil, while most of the world is decarbonising. Trump can have all the oil. No-one else will want it soon!
  • CarrCarr Posts: 4
    stodge said:

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Yes, even I can cheerfully concede it's been a remarkable turn of events.

    The cynic in me looks at this piece and sees the emphasis on oil supply:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9g1l5jx90o

    We are in what Fallout called "the Resource Wars" (we have been for a while I suspect) where it isn't any longer about ideology or faith but simply energy or rather raw materials.

    I suspect Delcy Rodriguez sold out Maduro to the Americans and facilitated his seizure by US Special Forces. She was basically given a free hand in the running of Venezuela (as with many revolutionaries, her loyalty wasn't to red but to green) in exchange for ensuring American control of Venezulean oil and its supply to the US.

    This sounds like a "new" foreign policy but it isn't. Replacing the uncorruptible ideologue with the corruptible pragmatist has happened before and it will happen again. Revolutions can be bought and sold just like socks or shoes if you have the money.

    As for Iran, it's more of a challenge. Clerics aren't as susceptible to the blandishments of money as revolutionaries so there needs to be a different approach but ultimately I suspect a leader for Iran will be bought and paid for and he will take over as head of a new Government who will be more pragmatic and friendly to Washington.

    I imagine the plan for Cuba will be a hybrid approach - kidnap or kill the main leadership and find someone further down the tree who will be bought and paid for but it will happen "in the name of the Revolution".

    It's not a million miles away from how Moscow ran the Warsaw Pact from 1945 to 1989 - moderate leaders like Nagy and Dubcek went too far and were "replaced" by more compliant leaders and when Gorbachev took over, the hardline neo-Stalinists were themselves on borrowed time.
    The Warsaw Pact was established in 1955, six years after NATO. True that Imre Nagy's withdrawal of Hungary from it the following year didn't go down well in Moscow.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241
    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    Whatever were the dynamics and alliances a fortnight ago, they’ve all been flipped on their heads by events of the past few days.

    Everyone in the region is now united in seeing Iran as the enemy, and willing on the US and Israel to defeat them militarily. There’s little doubt the GCC states would have responded militarily to the threat.

    Everyone wants the Straight of Hormuz open ASAP, including China. I suspect that by early next week there’s mechanisms in place to enable this to happen. It’s simply too important to global trade to be closed, which is why the Iran navy was one of the first targets of the operation.
    Nearly everyone in the region already saw Iran as the enemy, so there's not been much change on that front.

    The question is whether everyone in the region are up for a protracted war, or will they be ruing the US/Israeli action and keen for it to be over? They might be willing on the US and Israel to defeat Iran militarily, but only if they can do it quickly.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,659
    It's amazing how the word Trump has already featured about 3,483 times in this thread.

    He doesn't even enter my head when I think about Iran and how to treat the regime.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,263
    Carr said:

    stodge said:

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Yes, even I can cheerfully concede it's been a remarkable turn of events.

    The cynic in me looks at this piece and sees the emphasis on oil supply:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy9g1l5jx90o

    We are in what Fallout called "the Resource Wars" (we have been for a while I suspect) where it isn't any longer about ideology or faith but simply energy or rather raw materials.

    I suspect Delcy Rodriguez sold out Maduro to the Americans and facilitated his seizure by US Special Forces. She was basically given a free hand in the running of Venezuela (as with many revolutionaries, her loyalty wasn't to red but to green) in exchange for ensuring American control of Venezulean oil and its supply to the US.

    This sounds like a "new" foreign policy but it isn't. Replacing the uncorruptible ideologue with the corruptible pragmatist has happened before and it will happen again. Revolutions can be bought and sold just like socks or shoes if you have the money.

    As for Iran, it's more of a challenge. Clerics aren't as susceptible to the blandishments of money as revolutionaries so there needs to be a different approach but ultimately I suspect a leader for Iran will be bought and paid for and he will take over as head of a new Government who will be more pragmatic and friendly to Washington.

    I imagine the plan for Cuba will be a hybrid approach - kidnap or kill the main leadership and find someone further down the tree who will be bought and paid for but it will happen "in the name of the Revolution".

    It's not a million miles away from how Moscow ran the Warsaw Pact from 1945 to 1989 - moderate leaders like Nagy and Dubcek went too far and were "replaced" by more compliant leaders and when Gorbachev took over, the hardline neo-Stalinists were themselves on borrowed time.
    The Warsaw Pact was established in 1955, six years after NATO. True that Imre Nagy's withdrawal of Hungary from it the following year didn't go down well in Moscow.
    Tito broke away in 1948.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,910

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    One of the most interesting phenomena in geopolitics is how Islamic worship is FALLING in core Islamic countries - in Iran it is in total freefall - but rising and becoming more conservative in peripheral Islamic countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. And in the western Muslim diaspora
    In countries like those you mention Arab-type Islam has been aggressively seeking to displace the older-style Moslem approach which was far more accommodating to the local culture and traditions. Maybe it develops a kind of missionary zeal in areas where it has a frontier and rivals to contend with?

    BTW, V S Naipaul - maybe the most consequential English language writer of late C20th? - was writing about this years ago in "Among the Believers" (1981) and "Beyond Belief" (1998).

    Been a long time coming. Fateful consequences.
    Yes, maybe

    Revolutions also die from the centre, outwards. The USSR was the first communist country after 1917 and one of the first to abandon communism, via the Eastern Bloc, even as it lives on in peripheral countries like Cuba, and North Korea (tho it is surely doomed)

    Iran, I hope, will follow the same pattern. There are promising hints that Islam is weakening in countries like Egypt
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840
    edited March 6

    FPT...

    MelonB said:

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    40m
    CNN's Dana Bash reports on a conversation she just had with Trump: "He quickly turned to Cuba. He said without being asked, 'Cuba is going to fall pretty soon.'"

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2029922464218656980

    Real signs of hubris starting to appear.
    Rubio’s Latin American policy has been incredibly successful so far.
    Yes, he has managed to overthow... let me just count up the numbers again... 0 (zero) regimes in the region.
    He's flipped Venezuela from being a Russian ally to being a US ally without creating any wider instability. That's a phenomenal foreign policy success whichever way you look at it.
    Has he? He's somewhat constrained Venezuela's support for Cuba, but that's about all. They're certainly not any sort of reliable US ally and are probably still feeding back info to Russia.
    Trump views the world through who he perceives he can/can’t do business with. It’s why most world leaders have been playing the kiss-ass game with him since he was re-elected. What he fails to see is that most states, even despotic ones, don’t purely revolve around their leaders. There is a whole state apparatus and culture that supports them. Losing the leader can cause that apparatus to fail, if it is sufficiently weak, but that is never a given.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,874
    Brixian59 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Wouldn't the Democrats have to win every Senate contest in 2026 in order to get to 67 Senators, and a chance of a conviction in the Senate?

    And even then, some of the Democrat Senators might baulk at removing a democratically elected President from office, unless doing so had overwhelming public support (at which point Republican Senators would probably break ranks with Trump and convict anyway).

    Point being, Trump would have to become as unpopular as Liz Truss for such an eventuality to be remotely plausible. He is some way off that and I see little prospect of him plunging to such depths. What could be do that he hasn't done already?
    I agree they can’t get a 2/3rds majority by themselves. That said I don’t think it’s inconceivable that Trump gets 25th’d, or even impeached, if the war drags on and the base turns.

    I’m not saying we’re anywhere near there yet, but as with any cult or belief system like MAGA, if something snaps, the support could collapse overnight.
    I admire your optimism. You’ll find that now Trump is the one going to war a large section of Maga think it’s all wonderful .
    A majority of the US public disapprove though, and that tends to increase the more action goes on and the fallout from it (deaths of service personnel, economic indicators) start to filter through.

    I’m never tremendously optimistic when it comes to matters Trumpian, but this is by some measure his riskiest move yet, and whilst it would be naive to assume he cannot continue to defy political gravity, all it takes is for a few people to see the emperor has no clothes and the whole thing could go south for him pretty quickly.
    The thing is I don't think Trump is that invested in the war. He's not ideologically committed to it in the way that Putin is to the conquest of Ukraine.

    So in the politically worst-case scenario Trump simply ends the war, declares victory, and distracts everyone with half a dozen new crazy things.

    I'd say there's a better than evens chance that Iran will barely be mentioned in news bulletins by Easter. The circus will have moved on.
    If Iran continues to throw missiles and drones in all directions then the war continues - regardless of what Trump wants.
    He's so utterly deranged that I can see Farage returning from Florida with a MAGA edict that Farage is made PM by 1 June or Trump will attack UK
    I thought the Trump regime were these days favouring Tiny Tom.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,549
    The Germans have bought the Telegraph.

    Thoughts and prayers for the Colonels in the shires.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,798
    Trump also said he was open to having a religious leader in Iran. “Well I may be yeah, I mean, it depends on who the person is. I don’t mind religious leaders. I deal with a lot of religious leaders and they are fantastic,” he said.

    And pressed on if he is insisting there needs to be a democratic state, Trump told CNN, “No, I’m saying there has to be a leader that’s going be fair and just. Do a great job. Treat the United States and Israel well, and treat the other countries in the Middle East — they’re all our partners.”


    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/03/06/politics/trump-interview-iran-cuba-dana-bash

    As I said before, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,263

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    "Unconditional surrender". "MIGA!". Say it again. Trump is literally going mad. These aren't just words. He's deploying vast military assets in support of a war with no clear objective, strategy or post-conflict plan.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2029953037351989417

    Was there a clear plan for the future of Germany when we declared war in 1939?
    Phony War.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,263
    Is it true the Orange One no longer wants to actually invade Iran?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,221
    glw said:

    Trump also said he was open to having a religious leader in Iran. “Well I may be yeah, I mean, it depends on who the person is. I don’t mind religious leaders. I deal with a lot of religious leaders and they are fantastic,” he said.

    And pressed on if he is insisting there needs to be a democratic state, Trump told CNN, “No, I’m saying there has to be a leader that’s going be fair and just. Do a great job. Treat the United States and Israel well, and treat the other countries in the Middle East — they’re all our partners.”


    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/03/06/politics/trump-interview-iran-cuba-dana-bash

    As I said before, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
    Just what you would expect - find a mid-rank mullah willing to take the greenback and install him as the new leader.

    Peace in 24 hours.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840
    glw said:

    Trump also said he was open to having a religious leader in Iran. “Well I may be yeah, I mean, it depends on who the person is. I don’t mind religious leaders. I deal with a lot of religious leaders and they are fantastic,” he said.

    And pressed on if he is insisting there needs to be a democratic state, Trump told CNN, “No, I’m saying there has to be a leader that’s going be fair and just. Do a great job. Treat the United States and Israel well, and treat the other countries in the Middle East — they’re all our partners.”


    https://edition.cnn.com/2026/03/06/politics/trump-interview-iran-cuba-dana-bash

    As I said before, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
    It’s total stream of consciousness at this point.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 635
    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Unlikely now.

    Suspect though after 2028 a Democratic President with a Democratic congress will blow up the filibuster, day 1, find a way to get the 11m undocumented on the electoral roll, admit Puerto Rico and DC as states and put a liberal majority on the Supreme Court via court packing or forced retirements. By 2030 the US government will probably be quite a bit to the left of the UK government and will remain that way for a long time.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,830
    We don’t need to reach back to Vichy France for a 20th century analogy. We need look no further than the US imposition of the actual Shah in Iran. Which worked out great for everyone, of course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,339
    Details of Royal Air Force missions have been published online for years in a “staggering” security blunder, The Telegraph can disclose.

    Messages that reveal air-to-air refuelling flight plans and the possible locations of British fighter jets have been broadcast by the the RAF over an insecure aviation messaging system that anyone can read.

    Other messages appear to instruct pilots to remove secret documents being carried on a refuelling craft. In another case, a message apparently tells an aircraft where to park before landing in Cyprus on the same day as the Iranian drone strike.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/03/06/raf-flight-plans-published-online-security-blunder/
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,925
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    I suspect the ME is secularising a bit, but you don't have to be a religious nut to be very anti-Israel.

    Also most people in the region are Muslims. It's their identity; who they are. But I don't think most were that fanatical before.
    Indeed.

    Plenty of nuts hate Israel.

    Religious nuts
    Far right nuts
    Leftie nuts
    Fruit and nuts
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,278

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    The looming mid-terms probably do constraint the timeline. If this hasn't escalated into something much bigger by then, Trump will want to impose some kind of outcome and declare victory in order to claim victory.
    This isn't a Bomb/Invade/Occupy/Rebuild operation it's just Bomb. At the rate they're doing it Iran will be floored in short order. Their counterattacking strikes hardly ever get through and they are air-defenceless. Sitting ducks basically.

    Donald Trump can stop it any time he wants and (the benefit of undefined war aims) claim a glorious victory. That was Epic Fury. Hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed staging it. We have obliterated (he likes that word although struggles to pronounce it) the evil old regime and its fearsome weaponry. They are a threat no more. We are America. This is what we do. Next.

    That's what I see happening and fairly soon. Certainly weeks not months. The (unpredictable and probably malign) consequences of this will pan out for years but I don't think US military action in Iran will go on for that much longer.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,925

    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    Whatever were the dynamics and alliances a fortnight ago, they’ve all been flipped on their heads by events of the past few days.

    Everyone in the region is now united in seeing Iran as the enemy, and willing on the US and Israel to defeat them militarily. There’s little doubt the GCC states would have responded militarily to the threat.

    Everyone wants the Straight of Hormuz open ASAP, including China. I suspect that by early next week there’s mechanisms in place to enable this to happen. It’s simply too important to global trade to be closed, which is why the Iran navy was one of the first targets of the operation.
    Nearly everyone in the region already saw Iran as the enemy, so there's not been much change on that front.

    The question is whether everyone in the region are up for a protracted war, or will they be ruing the US/Israeli action and keen for it to be over? They might be willing on the US and Israel to defeat Iran militarily, but only if they can do it quickly.
    Which is another reason why we should be helping them, not tutting from the sidelines.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,549
    Rory Johnston
    @Rory_Johnston

    As someone who routinely mocks permabullish clickbait oil forecasts, I want to be exceptionally clear:

    Crude WILL go to $200/bbl, en route higher, unless traffic through the Strait resumes.

    Not clickbait, but rather brutal physics and necessary economic incentives.

    https://x.com/Rory_Johnston/status/2029941755395621357


  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,221

    It's amazing how the word Trump has already featured about 3,483 times in this thread.

    He doesn't even enter my head when I think about Iran and how to treat the regime.

    Perhaps but it's American and Israeli military power which is the only sure way (it seems following the collapse of the January protests) to make things happen and Trump is one of the leaders involved.

    He's also the one who has used the term "unconditional surrender" today. I don't recall that term being used in Iraq or Libya for example. When it was used in WW2, it was arguably counter productive as it made the Nazis realise they had no option but to fight on to the end.

    I'm not wholly sure what it means now - does he expect the theocracy to come cap in hand to beg Washington to stop because he must know that's never going to happen? Would he expect a new post-theocratic Government to surrender or simply seek terms?

    With the continued closure of Hormuz, which I suspect the Americans will re-open soon, the Iranians can watch the West and particularly Europe deal with oil prices rising and all that flows (or rather doesn't flow from that).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,241

    Sandpit said:

    FF43 said:

    Interesting article in Foreign Affairs about exactly this topic. America has no means of imposing its candidate on the Iranians; Iran isn't in the top three most important countries in the region these days, so it won't address the underlying issues anyway; the predominant dynamic in the region is hatred of Israel, which this adventure is playing into; Gulf states are vulnerable; most importantly at some point damage limitation will kick in, which means doing some kind deal with whoever is in charge in Iran.

    https://bsky.app/profile/dassakaye.bsky.social/post/3mgfohy2akc2m

    The predominant dynamic is shifting towards secularisation and modernisation. Some very interesting comments from MBS here:

    https://x.com/ippatel/status/2029736800001155463
    Whatever were the dynamics and alliances a fortnight ago, they’ve all been flipped on their heads by events of the past few days.

    Everyone in the region is now united in seeing Iran as the enemy, and willing on the US and Israel to defeat them militarily. There’s little doubt the GCC states would have responded militarily to the threat.

    Everyone wants the Straight of Hormuz open ASAP, including China. I suspect that by early next week there’s mechanisms in place to enable this to happen. It’s simply too important to global trade to be closed, which is why the Iran navy was one of the first targets of the operation.
    Nearly everyone in the region already saw Iran as the enemy, so there's not been much change on that front.

    The question is whether everyone in the region are up for a protracted war, or will they be ruing the US/Israeli action and keen for it to be over? They might be willing on the US and Israel to defeat Iran militarily, but only if they can do it quickly.
    Which is another reason why we should be helping them, not tutting from the sidelines.
    A few British planes isn't going to make any difference. I am unclear how UK ground troops would be meant to get there!
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,830
    kinabalu said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    The looming mid-terms probably do constraint the timeline. If this hasn't escalated into something much bigger by then, Trump will want to impose some kind of outcome and declare victory in order to claim victory.
    This isn't a Bomb/Invade/Occupy/Rebuild operation it's just Bomb. At the rate they're doing it Iran will be floored in short order. Their counterattacking strikes hardly ever get through and they are air-defenceless. Sitting ducks basically.

    Donald Trump can stop it any time he wants and (the benefit of undefined war aims) claim a glorious victory. That was Epic Fury. Hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed staging it. We have obliterated (he likes that word although struggles to pronounce it) the evil old regime and its fearsome weaponry. They are a threat no more. We are America. This is what we do. Next.

    That's what I see happening and fairly soon. Certainly weeks not months. The (unpredictable and probably malign) consequences of this will pan out for years but I don't think US military action in Iran will go on for that much longer.
    All very well, but I don’t think that’s how Bibi sees it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,917

    The Germans have bought the Telegraph.

    Thoughts and prayers for the Colonels in the shires.

    That great fan of a united Europe, Sir Oswald Mosley, would be gratified.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,885
    edited March 6

    The Germans have bought the Telegraph.

    Thoughts and prayers for the Colonels in the shires.

    Thee owners of Bild? More likely they want its rage baiting anti-news pipeline. Don't think the Telegraph has been anything of record for at least the last decade.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,221

    Rory Johnston
    @Rory_Johnston

    As someone who routinely mocks permabullish clickbait oil forecasts, I want to be exceptionally clear:

    Crude WILL go to $200/bbl, en route higher, unless traffic through the Strait resumes.

    Not clickbait, but rather brutal physics and necessary economic incentives.

    https://x.com/Rory_Johnston/status/2029941755395621357


    Interesting commentary though whether alarmist I'm not sure.

    With production slowing in Kuwait, I suspect the Gulf States will be pressuring Washington to get Hormuz fully re-opened as soon as possible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,261

    Rory Johnston
    @Rory_Johnston

    As someone who routinely mocks permabullish clickbait oil forecasts, I want to be exceptionally clear:

    Crude WILL go to $200/bbl, en route higher, unless traffic through the Strait resumes.

    Not clickbait, but rather brutal physics and necessary economic incentives.

    https://x.com/Rory_Johnston/status/2029941755395621357


    The next comedy will be the use/abuse of the American strategic petroleum reserve.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,840
    edited March 6
    PaulM said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    Unlikely now.

    Suspect though after 2028 a Democratic President with a Democratic congress will blow up the filibuster, day 1, find a way to get the 11m undocumented on the electoral roll, admit Puerto Rico and DC as states and put a liberal majority on the Supreme Court via court packing or forced retirements. By 2030 the US government will probably be quite a bit to the left of the UK government and will remain that way for a long time.
    It won’t be anything the GOP don’t deserve.

    A lot of that change is welcome. The filibuster has arguably prevented the legislature exerting itself vs the executive as it was intended. The Supreme Court now acts as the most powerful legislative body in the nation and requires more checks and balances on its power. And statehood addresses and corrects democratic deficits.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,892
    MelonB said:

    I finally broke out of my gilded Orlando cage and went on an airboat ride through the swamps.



    It was quite fun.

    He looks a friendly, cuddly fella.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,068
    https://x.com/shippersunbound/status/2029960111112753423

    Britain is to get a new ‘anti-Muslim hostility tsar’ under plans to be outlined by the government on Monday, which will also include a new definition of Islamophobia
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,885
    kinabalu said:

    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    The looming mid-terms probably do constraint the timeline. If this hasn't escalated into something much bigger by then, Trump will want to impose some kind of outcome and declare victory in order to claim victory.
    This isn't a Bomb/Invade/Occupy/Rebuild operation it's just Bomb. At the rate they're doing it Iran will be floored in short order. Their counterattacking strikes hardly ever get through and they are air-defenceless. Sitting ducks basically.

    Donald Trump can stop it any time he wants and (the benefit of undefined war aims) claim a glorious victory. That was Epic Fury. Hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed staging it. We have obliterated (he likes that word although struggles to pronounce it) the evil old regime and its fearsome weaponry. They are a threat no more. We are America. This is what we do. Next.

    That's what I see happening and fairly soon. Certainly weeks not months. The (unpredictable and probably malign) consequences of this will pan out for years but I don't think US military action in Iran will go on for that much longer.
    I wouldn't say its over. The Chinese may well be starting to supply kit and the Iranians are heavily dug in, in a huge country and have little to lose.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,567

    https://x.com/shippersunbound/status/2029960111112753423

    Britain is to get a new ‘anti-Muslim hostility tsar’ under plans to be outlined by the government on Monday, which will also include a new definition of Islamophobia

    Is that one whose job will be to be anti-Muslim and hostile?
    I can think of a candidate for the role.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,449
    Cicero said:

    The commentary from Washington today has been astonishingly stupid.

    I think we will be looking at a large Democrat majority in the House, and it is even possible that the American people might vote for enough Democrat Senators to allow impeachment. What odds are being offered on Trump being forced from office?

    It is certainly what this fiasco deserves.

    There is essentially no chance that enough Senate seats could fall that would allow for Trump's impeachment.

    Right now, the Senate is 53-47.

    Only 33 seats are up for election this year, of which 13 are Democrat, and 20 Republican.

    If you assume that States with a partisan lean of 6 points (i.e. a 12 point gap in the vote last time around) were to the fall to the Democrats (which would be an incredible result for them), then you would see them gain the following:

    Alaska: not a bad shout, Mary Pelouta is popular and only just missed out in the House race in 2024, and the Republicans are likely to do worse than then.
    Florida: that's a real toughy; it's been becoming Redder and Redder over time. But I put in there for completeness.
    Iowa: it's possible. Obama won it. And it'll be open because Joni Ernst is retiring. But I'd want decent odds.
    Maine: Ms Collins luck will run out this year.
    North Carolina: probably a Democrat gain.
    Ohio: like with Iowa, it's possible. Sherrod Brown is a very strong Democratic candidate who lost by just 3.5% in 2024, while Trump ran away with the State.
    Texas: well, the Democrats did the smart thing and chose an electable candidate. And the Republicans look likely to pick Paxton. Nate Silver thinks this makes Texas 50/50.

    And that's it... After that, you start looking at States with big Republican leans. And while it's possible one ofthem could end up falling in one way or another (perhaps Louisiana, if the Republicans Primary Bill Cassidy, and then the Dems decide to sit the race out and he wins as an Independent?), it's not likely.

    So... on an incredible night for the Dems, you could see them picking up 7.

    But, really, only 2 are high likelihood (Maine and North Carolina), then there are 2 or 3 that are 50/50 at best (Alaska, maybe Ohio and Texas). And then it's really distant shots.

    +7 gets the Dems to 54 Senators. And yes, you might get Lisa Murkowski voting for Trump's removal, but that's probably about it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,886

    https://x.com/shippersunbound/status/2029960111112753423

    Britain is to get a new ‘anti-Muslim hostility tsar’ under plans to be outlined by the government on Monday, which will also include a new definition of Islamophobia

    I'm sure Spectator columnist Sean Thomas, formerly of this parish, will react to this in a measured and temperate manner
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