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The anti-science era – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,962
edited 4:18PM in General
The anti-science era – politicalbetting.com

“Trump revokes landmark ruling that greenhouse gases endanger public health” read a recent BBC headline. The US Food and Drug Administration initially refused to consider a new mRNA flu vaccine for approval although they have U-turned after an outcry. With falling vaccination rates, the US saw more measles cases in 2025 than any year since 1991. Do Americans no longer trust the science?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    edited 4:21PM
    Trump again, 🙄

    Oh, and first.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,782
    edited 4:20PM
    Sorry to go O/T already on Bondegezou's interesting header, but I have got to ask India:

    Are you Australia in disguise?

    Oh, and did I mention? Australia didn't make it past the group stage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to go O/T already on Bondegezou's interesting header, but I have got to ask India:

    Are you Australia in disguise?

    Oh, and did I mention? Australia didn't make it past the group stage.

    Oops !!
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,782
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    I thought the whole point of socialism was to eventually eliminate a money based economy in favour of commonality of labour?
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,074
    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    edited 4:31PM
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    I thought the whole point of socialism was to eventually eliminate a money based economy in favour of commonality of labour?
    But the state is not providing everything for them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,914
    edited 4:31PM
    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    No. The issue is whether Science believes in your existence. Not the other way round.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,782
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    I thought the whole point of socialism was to eventually eliminate a money based economy in favour of commonality of labour?
    But the state is not providing everything for them.
    Again, isn't that the point of Socialism? People incrasingly provide their own resources of talent for the common good?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,664
    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    That needs two small qualifications:

    Everything in science that is true is true regardless of anyone's beliefs

    (obviously the science community from Galen and Archimedes onwards can hold beliefs that are thought to be true at the time but subsequently turn out to need amendment)

    and

    Everything that is true is true regardless of anyone's beliefs.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,914
    edited 4:40PM
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    I thought the whole point of socialism was to eventually eliminate a money based economy in favour of commonality of labour?
    But the state is not providing everything for them.
    No no.

    The genius on The Central Committee allocates *your* labour as *they* see fit
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 698

    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).

    Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee

    He stands in Gorton and loses.

    He's resigned his mayorality to stand.

    Labour lose that too.

    At the time highly likely both would happen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,122
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    I thought the whole point of socialism was to eventually eliminate a money based economy in favour of commonality of labour?
    But the state is not providing everything for them.
    Again, isn't that the point of Socialism? People incrasingly provide their own resources of talent for the common good?
    From each ...
    ✊️
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,505
    As Depeche Mode nearly sang:

    Enjoy the Science

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Brixian59 said:

    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).

    Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee

    He stands in Gorton and loses.

    He's resigned his mayorality to stand.

    Labour lose that too.

    At the time highly likely both would happen.
    His argument was he only had to relinquish the Mayoralty if he won Gorton and Denton. So if he lost- happy days anyway. But I don't believe politics works like that.

    The man, like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage does have the common touch. That of itself should send alarms ringing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006
    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    Mostly. Science is not always right, but it IS self correcting.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,514

    Brixian59 said:

    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).

    Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee

    He stands in Gorton and loses.

    He's resigned his mayorality to stand.

    Labour lose that too.

    At the time highly likely both would happen.
    His argument was he only had to relinquish the Mayoralty if he won Gorton and Denton. So if he lost- happy days anyway. But I don't believe politics works like that.

    The man, like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage does have the common touch. That of itself should send alarms ringing.
    That's exactly how its worked in the past. MPs running for Mayoralties for instance have only taken the Chiltern Hundreds after winning.

    There is no law against running for elections. There is a law saying you can't hold both offices at once, but that means you need to resign one after winning the other.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,782

    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    Mostly. Science is not always right, but it IS self correcting.
    The idea of miasma springs to mind. It wasn't unscientific, but it was based on incomplete knowledge so it wasn't correct. It was however displaced by the revelation it wasn't the smells per se but the bacteria within them that caused disease.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006

    Scientific illiteracy is up there with mathematical incompetence as a bizarre badge of honour amongst media luvvies.

    They should be embarrassed, not boasting about it.

    I’d like to give this 100 likes. Paxman was a classic example of this on university challenge. How he would smear when an arts question was wrong. And how I laughed when he couldn’t pronounce a scientific term.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    Scientific illiteracy is up there with mathematical incompetence as a bizarre badge of honour amongst media luvvies.

    They should be embarrassed, not boasting about it.

    Although Radio 4's In Our Time does try and reverse that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,688
    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561

    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    Mostly. Science is not always right, but it IS self correcting.
    You mean like Bat Out of Hell, Meatloaf and the Darwin Awards?

    Although in that instance, science was right, Meatloaf was wrong and ultimately science won by default. RFK Jnr seems to meet that threshold every day,only other people and especially their children, seem to win Darwin Awards on his behalf.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,685
    Brass Eye covered most of what you need to know about Science:

    https://youtu.be/Alryavu9D5k?si=eGmOwJ2V75knYi2H

    Thomas Dolby did the rest:

    https://youtu.be/V83JR2IoI8k?si=ucJNDc-yy0LI7Yle
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,514

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,493
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
  • TresTres Posts: 3,493

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    brain rot innit?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I don't know. To offer one hypothesis... social media algorithms have incentivisied what gets attention, which isn't truth, but outrage and easy "answers". Modern populism, often of the right but sometimes of the left, thrives on this, but thus has no time for things like facts or nuance. Trump's MAGA doesn't like science, but it's not as if they like the law or the arts or real religion either! MAGA is very solipsistic.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    The relevance of this ‘insight’ being zero.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    If you can find any relevant UK polling, that would be interesting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,705
    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    Then you're just using science as a synonym for truth rather than a method.

    It's possible that what we regard as scientifically proven can turn out to be false, and some would argue that falsifiability is the whole point of the scientific method.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    edited 5:01PM

    Brixian59 said:

    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).

    Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee

    He stands in Gorton and loses.

    He's resigned his mayorality to stand.

    Labour lose that too.

    At the time highly likely both would happen.
    His argument was he only had to relinquish the Mayoralty if he won Gorton and Denton. So if he lost- happy days anyway. But I don't believe politics works like that.

    The man, like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage does have the common touch. That of itself should send alarms ringing.
    That's exactly how its worked in the past. MPs running for Mayoralties for instance have only taken the Chiltern Hundreds after winning.

    There is no law against running for elections. There is a law saying you can't hold both offices at once, but that means you need to resign one after winning the other.
    My rather laboured point was Burnham would look like an enormous pudding had he lost Gorton and Denton. Remember too he was an awful Minister in the Brown Government.

    There are one or two quite impressive characters available and in Parliament to replace Starmer although they are being dragged down by Starmer and Reeves's U turns and inertia.

    I keep thinking the Blair Government was better suited, because people like Dobbo, Hoon and Jacqui Smith were in the minority rather than running the entire show as they now appear to be so doing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,122
    edited 5:04PM

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    There were a surprising number of Brits resistant to the notion that reducing contact between people would reduce the spread of a virus that was caught via proximity to an infected person.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,493
    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    The relevance of this ‘insight’ being zero.
    you don't understand volunteering at all do you?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    CatMan said:

    Brass Eye covered most of what you need to know about Science:

    https://youtu.be/Alryavu9D5k?si=eGmOwJ2V75knYi2H

    Thomas Dolby did the rest:

    https://youtu.be/V83JR2IoI8k?si=ucJNDc-yy0LI7Yle

    One of life's great disappointments was that Dr Magnus Pyke had Farage adjacent political views.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,505
    When science undermines beliefs that someone holds dear, then it is easier for them to dismiss the evidence than overturn a central element of themselves.

    I worked with an engineer who was a Presbyterian from Northern Ireland. He maintained that the earth was only a few thousand years old, and, for example, God had simply placed fossils within rocks to make us incorrectly think that dinosaurs existed. And put the oil and gas down there for our benefit.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    kinabalu said:

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    There were a surprising number of Brits resistant to the notion that reducing contact between people would reduce the spread of a virus that was caught via proximity to an infected person.
    Not least, the man in charge of the entire COVID show.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,688

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    Not quite comparable, but this is from the Ipsos Veracity Index 2025, which has all sorts of data on who the British public trusts.

    Trust in scientists by party affiliation:
    Labour 93%
    Conservative 87%
    Reform 68%
    Green 88%

    So for now, it's a Stateside problem, but a warning light to be careful about what we import here.

    (The top five, by the way, are Nurses, Engineers, Doctors, Teachers and Professors, which is a fairly strong pattern in itself.)

    The Reform chart is sad in many ways. Lower-than average trust pretty much across the board, except for The ordinary man/woman in the street, Landlords, Estate Agents and Buisness Leaders. Some of those are understandable, but landlords and estate agents?

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-veracity-index-2025
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,551
    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,914

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    Not quite comparable, but this is from the Ipsos Veracity Index 2025, which has all sorts of data on who the British public trusts.

    Trust in scientists by party affiliation:
    Labour 93%
    Conservative 87%
    Reform 68%
    Green 88%

    So for now, it's a Stateside problem, but a warning light to be careful about what we import here.

    (The top five, by the way, are Nurses, Engineers, Doctors, Teachers and Professors, which is a fairly strong pattern in itself.)

    The Reform chart is sad in many ways. Lower-than average trust pretty much across the board, except for The ordinary man/woman in the street, Landlords, Estate Agents and Buisness Leaders. Some of those are understandable, but landlords and estate agents?

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-veracity-index-2025
    Some might be sunrises by the Green number. I can’t say I am.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,557

    When science undermines beliefs that someone holds dear, then it is easier for them to dismiss the evidence than overturn a central element of themselves.

    I worked with an engineer who was a Presbyterian from Northern Ireland. He maintained that the earth was only a few thousand years old, and, for example, God had simply placed fossils within rocks to make us incorrectly think that dinosaurs existed. And put the oil and gas down there for our benefit.

    And semtex?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,074

    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.

    Breaking in to a bank vault?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,551

    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.

    Breaking in to a bank vault?
    No, doing a neighbour's roof. But one appeared to be wearing a turban, two others of middle eastern appearance, and none were wearing any protective equipment- it's also illegal to do this work on a Sunday.

    I'm afraid my mind jumped to illegal workers. Several alarm bells and behaviours went off.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 698

    Brixian59 said:

    I'm getting a YouTube ad for Labour starring Andy Burnham, saying don't let Reform divide us. Presumably because polling shows he is popular and trusted.

    And yet SKS blocked him from standing in G&D.

    (A colleague is a Lab councillor in South Manchester, and she has been pounding the pavements non stop during the campaign including today, so they must think they can still win).

    Burnham needs to wake up and smell the coffee

    He stands in Gorton and loses.

    He's resigned his mayorality to stand.

    Labour lose that too.

    At the time highly likely both would happen.
    His argument was he only had to relinquish the Mayoralty if he won Gorton and Denton. So if he lost- happy days anyway. But I don't believe politics works like that.

    The man, like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage does have the common touch. That of itself should send alarms ringing.
    That's exactly how its worked in the past. MPs running for Mayoralties for instance have only taken the Chiltern Hundreds after winning.

    There is no law against running for elections. There is a law saying you can't hold both offices at once, but that means you need to resign one after winning the other.
    I think you'll find Labour told all Labour Mayor's in 2024 that if they stood to be an MP they would be expected to give up Mayorality in advance.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,685
    edited 5:29PM

    CatMan said:

    Brass Eye covered most of what you need to know about Science:

    https://youtu.be/Alryavu9D5k?si=eGmOwJ2V75knYi2H

    Thomas Dolby did the rest:

    https://youtu.be/V83JR2IoI8k?si=ucJNDc-yy0LI7Yle

    One of life's great disappointments was that Dr Magnus Pyke had Farage adjacent political views.
    Did he? Didn't know that.



    SCIENCE!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,477

    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.

    Breaking in to a bank vault?
    No, doing a neighbour's roof. But one appeared to be wearing a turban, two others of middle eastern appearance, and none were wearing any protective equipment- it's also illegal to do this work on a Sunday.

    I'm afraid my mind jumped to illegal workers. Several alarm bells and behaviours went off.
    Well, they'd be breaking the first rule of criminality - only break one rule at a time. Why bring attention to yourself by working on a Sunday? It's a bit like people doing 100mph on the M74 with £3 million of coke in the boot.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111
    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,705
    A killer argument for why the Chagos deal doesn't solve the problem it purports to solve:

    https://x.com/RajivShah90/status/2025618742537781436

    The basic problem with this argument is that it ignores that the putative Mauritius/UK deal is also liable to be undone by international law

    If this really belongs to Mauritius anything other than us unconditionally giving it back is an agreement under duress

    Both the current legal position and the proposed treaty are subject to legal risk, and the consequences of losing are far worse under the Treaty (since it already gives back the freehold)

    In the short term it's probably true that the Treaty will hold but in 25 or 50 years time? The exact same argument will be made "the UK bargained with something it was never entitled to"
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,477

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    It's not the speeding that kills you; suddenly stopping is the problem.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,696
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    At least Zohran leads from the front. Not sure how many litter picks Cam and Ozbo went on.


    https://x.com/jacobkornbluh/status/2015507552541241766?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • novanova Posts: 934

    OK, so what might be going on?

    It's true that our attention spans are all shot to pieces these days, and that doesn't sit well with thinking scientifically. There's also an issue that science has expanded so much that it takes a lot of study to get to the point where anyone can understand the questions, let alone the answers. (I'm pretty sure that it's going to be hard for anyone to do a Crick and Watson and just wander into another field and make a crucial discovery again.) But that doesn't explain the partisan split, unless one wishes to argue that the right are all just thickos, which I don't think is the case.

    One guess is that the bubble of right-wing news/conservative evangelicalism/Republican politics self-reinforces in an anti-science way.

    Another is that some of the recent outputs of science (including, but not limited to, climate and public health) are uncomfortable for many on the right. It's perfectly possible to emphasise the "conserve" bit of Conservatism, but that's not where a lot of right-wing thinking is.

    I would be curious to see British rather than American data before assigning a left/right split.

    The GOP and Democrats have reversed positions and supporters on a lot of things in the past 50+ years.
    Not quite comparable, but this is from the Ipsos Veracity Index 2025, which has all sorts of data on who the British public trusts.

    Trust in scientists by party affiliation:
    Labour 93%
    Conservative 87%
    Reform 68%
    Green 88%

    So for now, it's a Stateside problem, but a warning light to be careful about what we import here.

    (The top five, by the way, are Nurses, Engineers, Doctors, Teachers and Professors, which is a fairly strong pattern in itself.)

    The Reform chart is sad in many ways. Lower-than average trust pretty much across the board, except for The ordinary man/woman in the street, Landlords, Estate Agents and Buisness Leaders. Some of those are understandable, but landlords and estate agents?

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-veracity-index-2025
    Some might be sunrises by the Green number. I can’t say I am.
    I'm surprised it's so high - but then I assume there are lots of ex-Labour voters pushing it up.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,493

    A killer argument for why the Chagos deal doesn't solve the problem it purports to solve:

    https://x.com/RajivShah90/status/2025618742537781436

    The basic problem with this argument is that it ignores that the putative Mauritius/UK deal is also liable to be undone by international law

    If this really belongs to Mauritius anything other than us unconditionally giving it back is an agreement under duress

    Both the current legal position and the proposed treaty are subject to legal risk, and the consequences of losing are far worse under the Treaty (since it already gives back the freehold)

    In the short term it's probably true that the Treaty will hold but in 25 or 50 years time? The exact same argument will be made "the UK bargained with something it was never entitled to"

    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,061
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,551
    Eabhal said:

    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.

    Breaking in to a bank vault?
    No, doing a neighbour's roof. But one appeared to be wearing a turban, two others of middle eastern appearance, and none were wearing any protective equipment- it's also illegal to do this work on a Sunday.

    I'm afraid my mind jumped to illegal workers. Several alarm bells and behaviours went off.
    Well, they'd be breaking the first rule of criminality - only break one rule at a time. Why bring attention to yourself by working on a Sunday? It's a bit like people doing 100mph on the M74 with £3 million of coke in the boot.
    Criminals aren't always very bright.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,575

    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    Mostly. Science is not always right, but it IS self correcting.
    Except that the effects of this kind of stuff on the header often aren't self-correcting at all.

    ... The US Food and Drug Administration initially refused to consider a new mRNA flu vaccine for approval although they have U-turned after an outcry...

    Whatever the FDA now does, trust has been destroyed, and the lesson from history* is that it may not be regained.

    Clinical trials can cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and take years, and are of uncertain outcome. If you add to that an FDA which might refuse to even review a trial whose design it approved, then why would a pharma executive take the risk ?

    Easier to green light the weight loss or cancer drug trials.

    *Something similar (though less politically motivated) happened with clinical trials for novel antibiotics, a couple of decades back. It effectively ended pharma investment ever since.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,941
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    He is probably required to by local labour laws. Or doesn't want ICE sniffing around.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,467

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    Perhaps there is a law that demands anyone working for the City etc needs to provide two forms of ID and so it would take too long to change the law, with other potential unintended consequences.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111
    edited 5:52PM
    ...
    Eabhal said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    It's not the speeding that kills you; suddenly stopping is the problem.
    Very incisive and edifying I'm sure.

    But greenhouse gases are not injurious to health. Therefore declaring them as a threat to public health was surely a political gesture that fell outside the intended purpose of public health legislation.

    Revoking that ruling seems to me to be returning to an objective approach and stepping away from an emotion/optics driven approach, not the other way around.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,215
    edited 5:53PM

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    It makes the colours of the feathers brighter, and they like the attention.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Mum would have kittens if she read that!

    [disclaimer: I, personally, am a vegetarian]
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111
    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,557
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    Do you think it might catch on in the Sandpit with those fantastic dust storms to come over? You never know what you might find when you dig out the airport car park.

    https://www.italpassion.fr/en/ferrari/e4-million-ferrari-enzo-abandoned-in-dubai-airport-parking-lot/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,061

    I'm an engineer and my wife is a scientist.

    I frequently say, much to her annoyance:

    Scientists find problems. Engineers find solutions.

    True, but “brave”, as Sir Humphrey may have once said!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Try breathing pure CO2 or sulphur dioxide!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,278

    Eabhal said:

    I just saw (and heard) noisy construction work on a neighbouring streets roof on a Sunday at 4.20pm with a very eclectic mix of "roofer" workers with no PPE, and a slightly burly bloke (British) constantly walking perimeter on his phone.

    Hmm.

    Breaking in to a bank vault?
    No, doing a neighbour's roof. But one appeared to be wearing a turban, two others of middle eastern appearance, and none were wearing any protective equipment- it's also illegal to do this work on a Sunday.

    I'm afraid my mind jumped to illegal workers. Several alarm bells and behaviours went off.
    Well, they'd be breaking the first rule of criminality - only break one rule at a time. Why bring attention to yourself by working on a Sunday? It's a bit like people doing 100mph on the M74 with £3 million of coke in the boot.
    Criminals aren't always very bright.
    I didn't know it was illegal to do some jobs on a Sunday?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Try breathing pure CO2 or sulphur dioxide!
    You can't breathe water either but that doesn't appear to be on the naughty list.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,233
    We want to encourage people to get vaccinated and explain the science behind that but we cannot force them to be
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    Scientific illiteracy is up there with mathematical incompetence as a bizarre badge of honour amongst media luvvies.

    They should be embarrassed, not boasting about it.

    I’d like to give this 100 likes. Paxman was a classic example of this on university challenge. How he would smear when an arts question was wrong. And how I laughed when he couldn’t pronounce a scientific term.
    But did you threaten to over-rule him?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,233
    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Lovely Christian name, Zia Yusuf :lol:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,061
    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    Do you think it might catch on in the Sandpit with those fantastic dust storms to come over? You never know what you might find when you dig out the airport car park.

    https://www.italpassion.fr/en/ferrari/e4-million-ferrari-enzo-abandoned-in-dubai-airport-parking-lot/
    That’s a true story. It was a British fraudster’s Ferrari and it was impounded when he fled the UAE to avoid arrest.

    Cars get very dirty when left outside for only a couple of weeks, covered in sand even in the city.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    The relevance of this ‘insight’ being zero.
    Well, I think it raises an interesting point. What do people across the political spectrum say about non-capitalist activity? I personally think it's a good thing that what we do isn't purely about money, although it's obviously easier to say that behind a comfortable salary! I still think there was some merit in Cameron's Big Society (although I think he put too much of it on individuals rather than on corporations).

    Mamdani's call evokes to me the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic when we looked out for our neighbours and the world appeared to be contracting. People have always come together during emergencies and that's something to be praised, not ridiculed.
    Tres’s point is irrelevant whataboutery. Muh Tories.

    New York regularly has snow. They should be paying people for the work. Do we expect people to grit the roads for free when we need it ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Feck of you pompous arsehole of a cretin. Same brain again you would be dangerous. The cooking kills anything , spreading it all over kitchen is for moronic cretins like yourself. GTF and when you get there GTF again.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    edited 6:04PM
    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have been sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Sandpit said:

    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    Do you think it might catch on in the Sandpit with those fantastic dust storms to come over? You never know what you might find when you dig out the airport car park.

    https://www.italpassion.fr/en/ferrari/e4-million-ferrari-enzo-abandoned-in-dubai-airport-parking-lot/
    That’s a true story. It was a British fraudster’s Ferrari and it was impounded when he fled the UAE to avoid arrest.

    Cars get very dirty when left outside for only a couple of weeks, covered in sand even in the city.
    What does it do to your lungs then ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
    The moron has not enough brain cells to know that.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,278

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Try breathing pure CO2 or sulphur dioxide!
    You can't breathe water either but that doesn't appear to be on the naughty list.
    I bet a lot of vapers are breathing water in the gaseous form
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    You really think the authorities paid people to shovel snow during the siege of Leningrad, comrade?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,061
    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    The thing about Science is that it is true whether you believe in it or not.

    "Science is true" is about as unscientific a statement as you can get. Science is not facts or knowledge or logic or mathematics or measurement.
    Science is a process of inquiry, a method

    Which is exactly why pandemic “science” and climate “science”, have given the concept of a process of disovery and inquiry such a bad name.

    “I am The Science” - Anthony Fauci.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,194

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Lovely Christian name, Zia Yusuf :lol:
    According to Wikipedia, he "considers his religious beliefs to be a private matter" (he is indeed a Muslim, Muhammad Ziauddin Yusuf is his full name). However if everyone else's religious beliefs are a matter for his personal campaigning, I think his own religious beliefs and views cannot be a private matter. If he is uncomfortable with that, then possibly he may reconsider whether his views are best served by the intrusive and apparently hypocritical policies he advocates.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
    Because we don't want to become an Islamist theocracy?
  • TresTres Posts: 3,493
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    The relevance of this ‘insight’ being zero.
    Well, I think it raises an interesting point. What do people across the political spectrum say about non-capitalist activity? I personally think it's a good thing that what we do isn't purely about money, although it's obviously easier to say that behind a comfortable salary! I still think there was some merit in Cameron's Big Society (although I think he put too much of it on individuals rather than on corporations).

    Mamdani's call evokes to me the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic when we looked out for our neighbours and the world appeared to be contracting. People have always come together during emergencies and that's something to be praised, not ridiculed.
    Tres’s point is irrelevant whataboutery. Muh Tories.

    New York regularly has snow. They should be paying people for the work. Do we expect people to grit the roads for free when we need it ?
    there is literally a huge grit/sand box on my road for anyone to help themselves when it snows shrugemoji
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331
    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    1. How patriotic is Christianity, not a British origin religion. Go back to Druidism if they want true British values. Religion should be out of the classroom in all ways, it should be purely personal.

    2. If Christians don’t use churches and there is a risk of them falling apart it’s better they are used for whatever purpose, nightclubs, community centres, weather spoons or mosques.

    3. Fair enough.

    4. Absolutely right, not just expats, anyone who agrees to set up a business in the UK generating x in corporate tax and/or employing a certain number of UK people should be offered big personal tax incentives.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    To be fair he is paying, $19/hour for the snow shovelers.

    The controversy is that he’s demanding two forms of ID to register, at the same time as saying that voter ID is racist and sexist.

    https://x.com/rmlee100/status/2025597442838937992
    Ah, I was mistaken on that so fair enough on the pay.

    Democrats hypocrites. Surely not !!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    Yeah, supermarket chicken isn’t exactly just lying around in a shelf open to the elements.

    I don’t wash chicken. I’m still here.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Tres said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Should these people be paid ?

    I thought the Mayor of New York was a socialist not an exploiter of peoples labour ?

    ‘ NEW: Zohran Mamdani Calls on New Yorkers to Shovel Snow During Tomorrow’s Blizzard

    “You too can become an emergency snow shoveler. Just show up at your local sanitation garage between 8am and 1pm tomorrow with your paperwork.”’

    https://x.com/thechiefnerd/status/2025296287952699640?s=61

    did members of Cameron's 'big society' get paid?
    The relevance of this ‘insight’ being zero.
    Well, I think it raises an interesting point. What do people across the political spectrum say about non-capitalist activity? I personally think it's a good thing that what we do isn't purely about money, although it's obviously easier to say that behind a comfortable salary! I still think there was some merit in Cameron's Big Society (although I think he put too much of it on individuals rather than on corporations).

    Mamdani's call evokes to me the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic when we looked out for our neighbours and the world appeared to be contracting. People have always come together during emergencies and that's something to be praised, not ridiculed.
    Tres’s point is irrelevant whataboutery. Muh Tories.

    New York regularly has snow. They should be paying people for the work. Do we expect people to grit the roads for free when we need it ?
    there is literally a huge grit/sand box on my road for anyone to help themselves when it snows shrugemoji
    Hold the front page.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,505
    I see that Lucy Powell has written to Wacky Zacky, and gone in studs-first.

    Time to put these Trots back in their box.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,320

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
    Yes it does.

    That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
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