Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.
Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.
Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?
Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?
It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.
Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.
“Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
Yes, it’s a nonsense, the “rich” spend their money on expensive cars contributing lots of lovely VAT and creating jobs. They eat in restaurants and spend more money in expensive shops adding VAT and jobs. They hire domestic staff creating jobs amd contributing to the national tax take. They employ accountants and lawyers. They have money to invest in interesting business. They contribute to charities and the arts. At the moment, if you scare them out of the UK you aren’t getting their personal taxes and you aren’t getting their indirect taxes whereas if you give them very favourable taxes the economy benefits from theor spending and doesn’t cost the state as they use private education and health provision.
Trickle down is simply a restatement of basic Keynesian economics: income translates into spending and circulates through the economy. Sure, but that holds for households across the income distribution. And in fact more so for lower income households because they spend a higher share of their income. So an economy where the rich have a greater share of income actually involves less consumption spending and more saving. The reality is that since the late 1970s we have been running a massive experiment in Anglo Saxon economies to test the proposition that letting the rich get ever richer leads to better economic outcomes for the average person. I don't have the impression that this has been a huge success, although obviously for rich people like me it has been marvelous.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.
Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.
Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
Yes it does.
That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
does the water speak to you, FFS barking
Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
The US appears to be pushing for a nuclear deal that will be very similar... sorry, I mean completely different to and much, much better than the one Obama got.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
Indeed.
The orange idiot has spent decades being an isolationist so why not call his bluff?
Unfortunately it seems many here, both on this site and in our government, wish to embrace his isolationism if not embrace him.
Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.
Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
Yes it does.
That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
does the water speak to you, FFS barking
Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.
Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
Yes it does.
That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
does the water speak to you, FFS barking
Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
I'd have thought the debate within the Trump Administration would be the size and scope of any attack. IF this is about regime change, fair enough, but what is the regime being changed TO? Reza Pahlavi might seem the answer but does he really have the level of support across the whole country?
There's also the not unreasonable concern of all Iran's neighbours and how they will react. I imagine there will be a lot of diplomatic activity aimed at Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan as well as Afghanistan.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
I'd have thought the debate within the Trump Administration would be the size and scope of any attack. IF this is about regime change, fair enough, but what is the regime being changed TO? Reza Pahlavi might seem the answer but does he really have the level of support across the whole country?
There's also the not unreasonable concern of all Iran's neighbours and how they will react. I imagine there will be a lot of diplomatic activity aimed at Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan as well as Afghanistan.
The US focus does not appear to be about regime change, but about a new nuclear deal... and a quick "win" that Trump can crow about.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
The US appears to be pushing for a nuclear deal that will be very similar... sorry, I mean completely different to and much, much better than the one Obama got.
Hence the Iranians have calculated that Trump is looking a way out that he can declare a success. If they are wrong, they are in for a kicking, if they are right, it will reinforce the idea that others also suspect (Russia & China) that he can be rolled over if you hold out for a bit.
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy. 2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
I'd have thought the debate within the Trump Administration would be the size and scope of any attack. IF this is about regime change, fair enough, but what is the regime being changed TO? Reza Pahlavi might seem the answer but does he really have the level of support across the whole country?
There's also the not unreasonable concern of all Iran's neighbours and how they will react. I imagine there will be a lot of diplomatic activity aimed at Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan as well as Afghanistan.
The US focus does not appear to be about regime change, but about a new nuclear deal... and a quick "win" that Trump can crow about.
Looking at the tables for the T20 World Cup, I am hoping England lose to Pakistan and then beat New Zealand.
Meanwhile I will be cheering on the Windies and Zimbabwe in their next matches.
Because after all the recent shenanigans surrounding India, in the T20 and the Hundred bullshit, it would be absolutely hilarious to see them knocked out and Pakistan go through to the semis.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
A cruise port - a Holland America ship is due in tomorrow but I imagine they'll swerve. Reports of trouble up the coast at Mazatlan as well as a number of other places.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
You'll remember singing "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah, hey, hey, hey Barry Bridges" then.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
You'll remember singing "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah, hey, hey, hey Barry Bridges" then.
I got a season ticket for passing 11 plus so 71 72 was first full season.
Went occasionally from 66 onwards
Remember Barry Bridges
My first hero's were Jimmy Greenhoff and Fred Pickering
A cruise port - a Holland America ship is due in tomorrow but I imagine they'll swerve. Reports of trouble up the coast at Mazatlan as well as a number of other places.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
You'll remember singing "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah, hey, hey, hey Barry Bridges" then.
I got a season ticket for passing 11 plus so 71 72 was first full season.
Went occasionally from 66 onwards
Remember Barry Bridges
My first hero's were Jimmy Greenhoff and Fred Pickering
My last ever game was in 2002.week after play off win v Norwich, I played at St Andrews in a Soccer Aid Charity game, managed by Johnny Vincent with Noel Blake as centre half, I played left back.
A cruise port - a Holland America ship is due in tomorrow but I imagine they'll swerve. Reports of trouble up the coast at Mazatlan as well as a number of other places.
Matalan is always a dump.
Lovely beach at Mazatlan. I remember having a Margharita at a beach bar there with Mrs Foxy. It was so nice that we had a second. Could barely walk on our way back up the beach.
Puerto Vallata was a lovely spot too, but that was 35 years ago. I would love to get back to Mexico. It is a beautiful country.
Another illustration of our shit defence procurement.
https://x.com/FTusa284/status/2025499103325511810?s=20 Missed every milestone to date, Boeing in dispute with MoD about certifying the aircraft, radar not yet switched on in flight (confirmed by MoD spox). 7yrs after "selection" gone nowhere. And NATO has re-opened AWACS decision.
https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/2025514128010354734?s=20 That’s because RAF & Boeing deliberately hide from Ministers that there was no skills base available to do this build. They also were determined to “keep up with the Jones’ even tho the SAAB radar was better. behind Ministers back they bought 5 radar sets. It was one of the worst examples of dishonesty I saw from an armed service.
Ben Wallace was Defence Secretary from July 2019 (very shortly after the contract for the Boeing E-7 was signed) until August 2023. (He also, incidentally, renegotiated the contract to purchase three rather than five aircraft, saving only 12% of the total price.)
Did he discipline or sack anyone for this "worst example of dishonesty" ?
Complaining about it years later on X seems less than adequate as a response.
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
You'll remember singing "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah, hey, hey, hey Barry Bridges" then.
I got a season ticket for passing 11 plus so 71 72 was first full season.
Went occasionally from 66 onwards
Remember Barry Bridges
My first hero's were Jimmy Greenhoff and Fred Pickering
My last ever game was in 2002.week after play off win v Norwich, I played at St Andrews in a Soccer Aid Charity game, managed by Johnny Vincent with Noel Blake as centre half, I played left back.
GB News claim to have a massive Starmer news story from 9 Dont shoot me if its 'hes shit'
It's 9:03. Any update? Is it that he's shit?
Adam Brooks promised it was massive!! If hes ket me down im going to commit more atrocities
He's claiming its 'from 9pm' - show is on for 2 hours, so at 10:59PM they will announce that Starmer is shit.
Pointing out that on Boris's watch as Mayor during London 2012 Team GB got 65 medals. On Starmer's watch they have won a paltry 5!
The usual FAKE NEWS from the RADICAL LEFT LUNATIC (aka. @Mexicanpete)! We won a GLORIOUS total of 65 (SIXTY-FIVE) medals at Paris 2024 - which began the same month Sir Keir Starmer was elected. PLUS the FIVE we just won in Italy, that makes an INCREDIBLE total of 70 (SEVENTY!) Medals. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?
Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.
Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.
It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?
A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.
There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.
Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back
I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.
Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.
Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
Small world. My Dad was a member there too.
I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.
Fantastic days.
He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
He was indeed a Bluenose, as am I.
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Freddie Goodwin had a house in Earlswood behind Fulford Heath Golf Club. One of my Dad's friends was playing there and saw Howard Kendall in his garden talking to Freddie and they guessed he was signing from Everton days before it made the Evening Mail. Bobby Hope who played for us and you had the Newsagents in May Lane.
Best season ever under Freddie
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
You'll remember singing "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah nah, hey, hey, hey Barry Bridges" then.
I got a season ticket for passing 11 plus so 71 72 was first full season.
Went occasionally from 66 onwards
Remember Barry Bridges
My first hero's were Jimmy Greenhoff and Fred Pickering
My last ever game was in 2002.week after play off win v Norwich, I played at St Andrews in a Soccer Aid Charity game, managed by Johnny Vincent with Noel Blake as centre half, I played left back.
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Another illustration of our shit defence procurement.
https://x.com/FTusa284/status/2025499103325511810?s=20 Missed every milestone to date, Boeing in dispute with MoD about certifying the aircraft, radar not yet switched on in flight (confirmed by MoD spox). 7yrs after "selection" gone nowhere. And NATO has re-opened AWACS decision.
https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/2025514128010354734?s=20 That’s because RAF & Boeing deliberately hide from Ministers that there was no skills base available to do this build. They also were determined to “keep up with the Jones’ even tho the SAAB radar was better. behind Ministers back they bought 5 radar sets. It was one of the worst examples of dishonesty I saw from an armed service.
Ben Wallace was Defence Secretary from July 2019 (very shortly after the contract for the Boeing E-7 was signed) until August 2023. (He also, incidentally, renegotiated the contract to purchase three rather than five aircraft, saving only 12% of the total price.)
Did he discipline or sack anyone for this "worst example of dishonesty" ?
Complaining about it years later on X seems less than adequate as a response.
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
Rope a dope
It's so easy
OI once got involved in a discussion between two of the oil majors about development West of Shetland.
It became quite clear that the reason there about 20 years of talks on the matter was that, at least, my side didn't want to sign a deal. But have negotiations about a deal was of value. Apparently.
I caused something close to panic, when I connected a pricing model to an operations model and generated some forecasts about costs of operations.
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Sometimes I feel I really really don't understand the culture wars.
Cuz yer got no culture, innit...
Bit like Lucy Lettby, isn't it?
Hard to know what is more depressing - the "She's completely 100% innocent" or the "Suggesting she's innocent is an attack on the courts" mob.
I feel all alone, with "Some of the data seems a bit tortured. Need some legal bods to take a careful look at that. Plus, it's quite probable that the unit she was working in was shit - but that doesn't mean she's innocent. Or guilty."
On Chagos, I would have gone with using electronic ID tech from the Baltic States to identify and give an online voice to the Chagos Islanders. Then get them to elect representatives. Then have talks with those representatives. The code up with a proposal - or several. Then have a vote of the actual Chagos Islanders on the option to be taken. Then implement that.
I'm quite sure that this is Neon Fascist Imperialistic Enslavement Of The Oppressed. But it would approach justice.
Of course, it would upset the various Big Powers who want to carve things up like cake. But then, isn't Decolonisation supposed to be about that?
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Another illustration of our shit defence procurement.
https://x.com/FTusa284/status/2025499103325511810?s=20 Missed every milestone to date, Boeing in dispute with MoD about certifying the aircraft, radar not yet switched on in flight (confirmed by MoD spox). 7yrs after "selection" gone nowhere. And NATO has re-opened AWACS decision.
https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/2025514128010354734?s=20 That’s because RAF & Boeing deliberately hide from Ministers that there was no skills base available to do this build. They also were determined to “keep up with the Jones’ even tho the SAAB radar was better. behind Ministers back they bought 5 radar sets. It was one of the worst examples of dishonesty I saw from an armed service.
Ben Wallace was Defence Secretary from July 2019 (very shortly after the contract for the Boeing E-7 was signed) until August 2023. (He also, incidentally, renegotiated the contract to purchase three rather than five aircraft, saving only 12% of the total price.)
Did he discipline or sack anyone for this "worst example of dishonesty" ?
Complaining about it years later on X seems less than adequate as a response.
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
We were in Oxford today, visiting my eldest. Extraordinarily atmospheric at dusk with the bells ringing and then the sound of choral evening through the doors to college chapels. Quite a seductive place.
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
@Brixian59 is a Tory? Or am I mixing up the "bring back the cane and beat the SEND out of the little shits" with University policy?
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Stopping funding for creative arts degrees funded by taxpayers and redirecting it to apprenticeships which generally see higher wages is hardly a bad thing. Nothing to stop you paying for a creative arts degree yourself either
Back to the header for a moment; What is 'confidence in science' supposed to mean?
For example, I have huge confidence in the empirical, experimental process and in the trustworthiness of inductive reasoning and the reliability of the science community in reporting truthfully, and in the peer process by which stuff is reviewed, and in the principle of all findings that count as empirical being subject to the possibility of falsification by processes all parties would accept.
But I don't have any trust in a process in which politicians say they are 'led by the science' or 'following the science' or that scientists themselves are better at difficult moral decisions - which by definition are not empirical science - than the rest of us.
Another issue is the way people conflate "social science" with, well, actual Popperian science. The measles vaccine sits firmly in the latter category. Sociology is clearly the former. Economics is somewhere in between. Then you get these slightly creative interpretations of hard science being presented as if they are the science, and it’s hardly surprising some people start to get sceptical.
A good example is the whole "brains don’t finish maturing until 25" line that crops up in criminology (which itself probably sits roughly where economics does on the "real science" spectrum). It’s true that brain structure continues changing until around 25. But who decided that that point is what counts as "mature"? Now we’re told (not remotely to my surprise when the 25 thing started being banded about" that it's actually into the 30s. And from there it’s a short hop to policy like Scotland’s under-25 distinctions, and a general tendency to keep stretching the definition of "maturation" whenever it’s convenient. Why stop at 25? Or 30? Who’s to say the changes in our 60s aren’t the "real" maturation?
People look at this sort of thing - what feels like overconfident extrapolation by people educated beyond their competence - and they draw the wrong conclusion and go anti-science. I don’t agree with that reaction, but I can at least see where it comes from.
Went to see Wuthering Heights this evening, a rather liberal interpretation of the novel but a brooding yet colourful, tense and dramatic performance of it nonetheless at times often quite racy
Sometimes I feel I really really don't understand the culture wars.
Cuz yer got no culture, innit...
Bit like Lucy Lettby, isn't it?
Hard to know what is more depressing - the "She's completely 100% innocent" or the "Suggesting she's innocent is an attack on the courts" mob.
I feel all alone, with "Some of the data seems a bit tortured. Need some legal bods to take a careful look at that. Plus, it's quite probable that the unit she was working in was shit - but that doesn't mean she's innocent. Or guilty."
On Chagos, I would have gone with using electronic ID tech from the Baltic States to identify and give an online voice to the Chagos Islanders. Then get them to elect representatives. Then have talks with those representatives. The code up with a proposal - or several. Then have a vote of the actual Chagos Islanders on the option to be taken. Then implement that.
I'm quite sure that this is Neon Fascist Imperialistic Enslavement Of The Oppressed. But it would approach justice.
Of course, it would upset the various Big Powers who want to carve things up like cake. But then, isn't Decolonisation supposed to be about that?
Neon Fascists.
"Thems some fancy lit-up epaulettes you got there, El Presidente...."
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
I’ve seen this but I’m too busy too tired right now and I need to sleep. Besides, I don’t mind the resident pirate or any PBer or anyone in politics claiming Labour negotiated the whole thing from scratch in just 8 weeks as it makes them sound very clueless and stupid. The Explanatory Memorandum (2025) document published by Parliament I linked to already summarises all the agreements in each eleven rounds of Conservative negotiations, but Labour likely publishes the full minutes of those 11 rounds ahead of commons debate to slaughter the Conservative front bench position.
Chagos deal passes through the commons at 19:21 on May 19th 2026.
1. How patriotic is Christianity, not a British origin religion. Go back to Druidism if they want true British values. Religion should be out of the classroom in all ways, it should be purely personal.
2. If Christians don’t use churches and there is a risk of them falling apart it’s better they are used for whatever purpose, nightclubs, community centres, weather spoons or mosques.
3. Fair enough.
4. Absolutely right, not just expats, anyone who agrees to set up a business in the UK generating x in corporate tax and/or employing a certain number of UK people should be offered big personal tax incentives.
1 Christian values have been the basis of British culture for over a 1000 years.
2 C of E churches are normally grade listed so often restricted in use, they normally also require a deed of variation to be used for non Christian worship but this just enforces that.
Problem is even Christian's do not agree with each other on these so called values
Well they should be based on what is in the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ
I appreciate that your religion is very important to you but I would rather schools taught the lessons of the enlightenment than any religion. There are too many elements of religion which are unbending and are rules for a different world where homosexuality risked reducing the children born into a tribe, where eating pork and shellfish could kill. Even the quasi-socialist teachings of Jesus would be a bit questionable in the country we live in. Should we ban money lending?
Well fine, go off and vote Green or Labour then.
Reform aren't targeting the likes of you but traditional British patriots who like our Christian heritage. Even Jesus praised prudent investment in the Parable of the Talents
I agree with @boulay, am a Christian, and vote conservative
You disagree with @boulay, are a Christian, and vote conservative
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
I’ve seen this but I’m too busy too tired right now and I need to sleep. Besides, I don’t mind the resident pirate or any PBer or anyone in politics claiming Labour negotiated the whole thing from scratch in just 8 weeks as it makes them sound very clueless and stupid. The Explanatory Memorandum (2025) document published by Parliament I linked to already summarises all the agreements in each eleven rounds of Conservative negotiations, but Labour likely publishes the full minutes of those 11 rounds ahead of commons debate to slaughter the Conservative front bench position.
Chagos deal passes through the commons at 19:21 on May 19th 2026.
Get some reading comprehension, I never said they negotiated it from scratch.
I said they made the stupid decision of actually agreeing the damned stupid thing.
1. How patriotic is Christianity, not a British origin religion. Go back to Druidism if they want true British values. Religion should be out of the classroom in all ways, it should be purely personal.
2. If Christians don’t use churches and there is a risk of them falling apart it’s better they are used for whatever purpose, nightclubs, community centres, weather spoons or mosques.
3. Fair enough.
4. Absolutely right, not just expats, anyone who agrees to set up a business in the UK generating x in corporate tax and/or employing a certain number of UK people should be offered big personal tax incentives.
1 Christian values have been the basis of British culture for over a 1000 years.
2 C of E churches are normally grade listed so often restricted in use, they normally also require a deed of variation to be used for non Christian worship but this just enforces that.
Problem is even Christian's do not agree with each other on these so called values
Well they should be based on what is in the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ
And there is your problem
Interpretation of the scriptures varies as does Christ teachings
I believe all gay couples should be married if they wish in a Church
Do you, and if not why ?
No it doesn't, the Ten Commandments are black and white for starters and the teachings of Christ are also pretty clear.
From Leviticus to Paul there is plenty anti same sex sex and while Jesus did not oppose specifically he made clear matrimony was between one man and one woman for life
The Ten Commandments are hardly black and white. The Catholics and some Protestants disagree with the Greek Orthodox and some other Protestants as to what they even are! See https://www.logos.com/grow/list-ten-commandments-debate/
Meanwhile, Jesus says more against divorce than homosexuality, yet somehow more conservative Christians get far more upset about homosexuality than divorce.
The Roman Catholic church forbids divorce except with a strict annulment to say the marriage was never valid in the first place
Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.
Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.
Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?
Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?
It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.
Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.
“Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
Yes, it’s a nonsense, the “rich” spend their money on expensive cars contributing lots of lovely VAT and creating jobs. They eat in restaurants and spend more money in expensive shops adding VAT and jobs. They hire domestic staff creating jobs amd contributing to the national tax take. They employ accountants and lawyers. They have money to invest in interesting business. They contribute to charities and the arts. At the moment, if you scare them out of the UK you aren’t getting their personal taxes and you aren’t getting their indirect taxes whereas if you give them very favourable taxes the economy benefits from theor spending and doesn’t cost the state as they use private education and health provision.
Trickle down is simply a restatement of basic Keynesian economics: income translates into spending and circulates through the economy. Sure, but that holds for households across the income distribution. And in fact more so for lower income households because they spend a higher share of their income. So an economy where the rich have a greater share of income actually involves less consumption spending and more saving. The reality is that since the late 1970s we have been running a massive experiment in Anglo Saxon economies to test the proposition that letting the rich get ever richer leads to better economic outcomes for the average person. I don't have the impression that this has been a huge success, although obviously for rich people like me it has been marvelous.
It's been a phenomenonal success in objective terms. Everyone, including the poor, has had their lot improved immeasurably.
The problem is that some sectors of those who claim to champion the poor are looking at the richest, and asking why the poor are only 10x better off than in the 70s whilst the richest are 100x better off (made up ratios, because I can't be bothered to find the actual ones).
Of course, the only likely alternative is that everyone would be poorer. The driving motivation of these people is not actually concern for the poor (otherwise they would be in favour of a system which has lifted the poor out of poverty faster than at any other time in history), but jealousy, usually because they haven't turned out super rich like some of the bright kids they went to private school alongside, but were instead so stupid all they could do was go into politics.
You can easily spot these people, they use fraudulent measures like relative poverty (if the poorest person in the world was as rich as Elon Musk, we'd apparently still have loads of poor people by these measures), and talk lots about inequality, because there's vanishingly little actual poverty for them to point to, and when you do find it, it is almost always because the people concerned resist every effort to help them out of it.
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
We were in Oxford today, visiting my eldest. Extraordinarily atmospheric at dusk with the bells ringing and then the sound of choral evening through the doors to college chapels. Quite a seductive place.
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
I’ve seen this but I’m too busy too tired right now and I need to sleep. Besides, I don’t mind the resident pirate or any PBer or anyone in politics claiming Labour negotiated the whole thing from scratch in just 8 weeks as it makes them sound very clueless and stupid. The Explanatory Memorandum (2025) document published by Parliament I linked to already summarises all the agreements in each eleven rounds of Conservative negotiations, but Labour likely publishes the full minutes of those 11 rounds ahead of commons debate to slaughter the Conservative front bench position.
Chagos deal passes through the commons at 19:21 on May 19th 2026.
Get some reading comprehension, I never said they negotiated it from scratch.
I said they made the stupid decision of actually agreeing the damned stupid thing.
Instead of scheduling another 12 rounds of talks.
we established 11 rounds of negotiations did happen before Labour came to power from the Conservatives told us this to Parliament in written answers. in late 24 and in 25 documents released by both governments after conclusion of talks, about what was discussed and agreed at which round of talks. The UKs Explanatory Memorandum (2025) acts as a "negotiation history" of the 11 rounds held between November 2022 and June 2024, what was discussed, agreed, and added to the Framework document at each round of talks. According to all official briefings and retrospectively published documents, the following was already "on paper" established as the working framework BEFORE Labour came to power. * The "Plan A" Framework: The core trade-off—transferring full sovereignty of the archipelago to Mauritius in exchange for a long-term lease of the Diego Garcia military base—was already the established before the change in government to Labour. it was at the September 23 negotiation the framework for ceding sovereignty, the lease, and the substantial payments were all drawn up and put into the existing ongoing Framework document. * The 99-Year Lease Principle: The concept of a 99-year lease to ensure the "continued effective operation" of the base was a foundational element of the early Conservative-led talks. But 99yr Lease started life in 2019 as a Mauritius offer in a presentation to the US who then contacted UK asking us to explore it as a way out of our problems. Boris passed this on to Liz to explore, who liked the idea and made it government policy to negotiate it. * Security & Veto Clauses: Technical provisions, such as the 24-nautical-mile buffer zone around Diego Garcia and a veto over foreign military presence on the outer islands, were * hashed out and agreed in principle during these early rounds to secure UK/US strategic interests. * The Financial Baseline: While the final £3.4 billion figure was formalised later, UK government has stated that the financial settlement was "acceptable to both sides" and built upon calculations reviewed during those 11 rounds. It was also the Conservatives in the 2023 technical sessions who insisted it must be indexed the £101M annual payments, to ensure the value of the lease remains stable against inflation. It was also established in early rounds that while the UK would provide the "Resettlement Trust Fund," the actual implementation and management of resettlement on the outer islands would be a Mauritian sovereign right. These are some of the difficult agreements already in place inherited by Labour, which allowed them to finalise everything and own the Chagos Deal in just 8 weeks from coming to power!
I have cut and pasted it from when you obviously missed me boring everyone to death on this detail. I’m pretty much done my eyes are closing. But are you quite clear on the India bit?
Today's Tory outing in case you missed it with all the drug wars stuff.
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Ridiculous policy.
Who's going to be making boilers in the future?
I've made a lot of money out of it. Traditional coal fired, riveted together steam ones too, not household gas boilers.
It's quite possible to earn a lot more as a time served boilersmith than the average graduate, and if you're any good you'll never struggle to find a job.
Nobody gave a flying fuck about the Chagos people for decades.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
Not quite
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
You seem to be under the delusion that because there were talks there should be an agreement.
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
I’ve seen this but I’m too busy too tired right now and I need to sleep. Besides, I don’t mind the resident pirate or any PBer or anyone in politics claiming Labour negotiated the whole thing from scratch in just 8 weeks as it makes them sound very clueless and stupid. The Explanatory Memorandum (2025) document published by Parliament I linked to already summarises all the agreements in each eleven rounds of Conservative negotiations, but Labour likely publishes the full minutes of those 11 rounds ahead of commons debate to slaughter the Conservative front bench position.
Chagos deal passes through the commons at 19:21 on May 19th 2026.
Get some reading comprehension, I never said they negotiated it from scratch.
I said they made the stupid decision of actually agreeing the damned stupid thing.
Instead of scheduling another 12 rounds of talks.
we established 11 rounds of negotiations did happen before Labour came to power from the Conservatives told us this to Parliament in written answers. in late 24 and in 25 documents released by both governments after conclusion of talks, about what was discussed and agreed at which round of talks. The UKs Explanatory Memorandum (2025) acts as a "negotiation history" of the 11 rounds held between November 2022 and June 2024, what was discussed, agreed, and added to the Framework document at each round of talks. According to all official briefings and retrospectively published documents, the following was already "on paper" established as the working framework BEFORE Labour came to power. * The "Plan A" Framework: The core trade-off—transferring full sovereignty of the archipelago to Mauritius in exchange for a long-term lease of the Diego Garcia military base—was already the established before the change in government to Labour. it was at the September 23 negotiation the framework for ceding sovereignty, the lease, and the substantial payments were all drawn up and put into the existing ongoing Framework document. * The 99-Year Lease Principle: The concept of a 99-year lease to ensure the "continued effective operation" of the base was a foundational element of the early Conservative-led talks. But 99yr Lease started life in 2019 as a Mauritius offer in a presentation to the US who then contacted UK asking us to explore it as a way out of our problems. Boris passed this on to Liz to explore, who liked the idea and made it government policy to negotiate it. * Security & Veto Clauses: Technical provisions, such as the 24-nautical-mile buffer zone around Diego Garcia and a veto over foreign military presence on the outer islands, were * hashed out and agreed in principle during these early rounds to secure UK/US strategic interests. * The Financial Baseline: While the final £3.4 billion figure was formalised later, UK government has stated that the financial settlement was "acceptable to both sides" and built upon calculations reviewed during those 11 rounds. It was also the Conservatives in the 2023 technical sessions who insisted it must be indexed the £101M annual payments, to ensure the value of the lease remains stable against inflation. It was also established in early rounds that while the UK would provide the "Resettlement Trust Fund," the actual implementation and management of resettlement on the outer islands would be a Mauritian sovereign right. These are some of the difficult agreements already in place inherited by Labour, which allowed them to finalise everything and own the Chagos Deal in just 8 weeks from coming to power!
I have cut and pasted it from when you obviously missed me boring everyone to death on this detail. I’m pretty much done my eyes are closing. But are you quite clear on the India bit?
Why are the Foreign Office obsessed with leaseback? You’d think they’d have learnt from Hong Kong.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5gk15rr70o
KRO.
SOTV
👍
Dont shoot me if its 'hes shit'
The reality is that since the late 1970s we have been running a massive experiment in Anglo Saxon economies to test the proposition that letting the rich get ever richer leads to better economic outcomes for the average person. I don't have the impression that this has been a huge success, although obviously for rich people like me it has been marvelous.
{Muffled clicking below the table}
1. They think he hasnt got the stomach for a full scale conflict with the casualties & other non human impacts therein, however brief it may be. The US military is prepping for an overwhelming and sustained effort. Sustained means weeks if necessary. This is not Trump's strong point, he wants clean wins movie style, ie done in two hours. The Iranians know this so they are stringing it out on basis that Trump is looking a way out because he knows it could get messy.
2. They have nothing to lose at this point, if Trump has decided to go ahead.
Keir and Present Danger
You're welcome.
The orange idiot has spent decades being an isolationist so why not call his bluff?
Unfortunately it seems many here, both on this site and in our government, wish to embrace his isolationism if not embrace him.
Isolationism is not virtuous.
Beaten too it by @OnlyLivingBoy! Fastest finger first, so please ignore.
It would be nice to think he has done something so egregious he has resigned by teatime on Tuesday.
Some US political cartooning
There's also the not unreasonable concern of all Iran's neighbours and how they will react. I imagine there will be a lot of diplomatic activity aimed at Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan as well as Afghanistan.
Read that and weep Barty Bobbins!
Meanwhile I will be cheering on the Windies and Zimbabwe in their next matches.
Because after all the recent shenanigans surrounding India, in the T20 and the Hundred bullshit, it would be absolutely hilarious to see them knocked out and Pakistan go through to the semis.
https://x.com/TheOfficialMrA1/status/2025630071067656613
1971-72
Unbeaten in League from Boxing Day.
Won promotion at Orient away last game of season
Cup run to semi final.
5th round a 16 year old kid 4th choice had to play in goal due to injury, name of Paul Cooper, had a great career at Ipswich.
He touched the ball 3 times in first 15 minutes... We were 3 nil down 52000 sell out
No worry
No panic
We had Latchford and Hatton and a wonder kid called Trevor
We won 6 - 3
Goidwin was very under rated manager very nice guy too
I was 11. Happy days
Went occasionally from 66 onwards
Remember Barry Bridges
My first hero's were Jimmy Greenhoff and Fred Pickering
Great memory that was.
Puerto Vallata was a lovely spot too, but that was 35 years ago. I would love to get back to Mexico. It is a beautiful country.
It's worse than the a Sunday fecking Sport...
https://x.com/FTusa284/status/2025499103325511810?s=20
Missed every milestone to date, Boeing in dispute with MoD about certifying the aircraft, radar not yet switched on in flight (confirmed by MoD spox). 7yrs after "selection" gone nowhere. And NATO has re-opened AWACS decision.
https://x.com/BenWallace70/status/2025514128010354734?s=20
That’s because RAF & Boeing deliberately hide from Ministers that there was no skills base available to do this build. They also were determined to “keep up with the Jones’ even tho the SAAB radar was better. behind Ministers back they bought 5 radar sets. It was one of the worst examples of dishonesty I saw from an armed service.
Ben Wallace was Defence Secretary from July 2019 (very shortly after the contract for the Boeing E-7 was signed) until August 2023.
(He also, incidentally, renegotiated the contract to purchase three rather than five aircraft, saving only 12% of the total price.)
Did he discipline or sack anyone for this "worst example of dishonesty" ?
Complaining about it years later on X seems less than adequate as a response.
However, in terms of actual antivaxers in the country, it’s primarily people that aren’t Reform supporters.
Suddenly they are at ground zero of the culture war.
Make it stop please...
The Tories were concerned enough to have 11 or 12 rounds of talks about it before leaving the contract in Keirs in tray
Gentle Giant
Having many rounds of talks that deliberately go nowhere is quite a typical way of evading doing something you have no interest in doing, without outright saying so.
The difference is Keir didn't just have talks, he actually signed an agreement.
Fool.
It's so easy
Total denial
Kemi says so
It became quite clear that the reason there about 20 years of talks on the matter was that, at least, my side didn't want to sign a deal. But have negotiations about a deal was of value. Apparently.
I caused something close to panic, when I connected a pricing model to an operations model and generated some forecasts about costs of operations.
Offer Burnham a place in House of Lords and Streetings job and he can be Lord Burnham f Manchestar Mayor of Manchester
My children should definitely go to Oxbridge
Your children should count themselves lucky to get Bristol
Their children should do apprenticeships for boiler making
Who's going to be making boilers in the future?
There is no limit to how long this titan is prepared to spend away from Dubai.
Matt Goodwin
@GoodwinMJ
·
2h
Richard Tice came to Gorton & Denton today and campaigned with us for five hours
Canvassed. Talked to voters. Led from the front.
https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2025659148747383278
Hard to know what is more depressing - the "She's completely 100% innocent" or the "Suggesting she's innocent is an attack on the courts" mob.
I feel all alone, with "Some of the data seems a bit tortured. Need some legal bods to take a careful look at that. Plus, it's quite probable that the unit she was working in was shit - but that doesn't mean she's innocent. Or guilty."
On Chagos, I would have gone with using electronic ID tech from the Baltic States to identify and give an online voice to the Chagos Islanders. Then get them to elect representatives. Then have talks with those representatives. The code up with a proposal - or several. Then have a vote of the actual Chagos Islanders on the option to be taken. Then implement that.
I'm quite sure that this is Neon Fascist Imperialistic Enslavement Of The Oppressed. But it would approach justice.
Of course, it would upset the various Big Powers who want to carve things up like cake. But then, isn't Decolonisation supposed to be about that?
"Catsaras has told the government that Nato believes the UK is falling behind other members in progress on meeting its 2025 targets and is 31st out of 32 members"
https://www.thetimes.com/article/44917552-ab26-420a-86ba-bffa2373ea2f?shareToken=124b462234159ad55553d41d9c1ec9ab
Wow! Which one?!
Richard Tice!
Oh.........
A good example is the whole "brains don’t finish maturing until 25" line that crops up in criminology (which itself probably sits roughly where economics does on the "real science" spectrum). It’s true that brain structure continues changing until around 25. But who decided that that point is what counts as "mature"? Now we’re told (not remotely to my surprise when the 25 thing started being banded about" that it's actually into the 30s. And from there it’s a short hop to policy like Scotland’s under-25 distinctions, and a general tendency to keep stretching the definition of "maturation" whenever it’s convenient. Why stop at 25? Or 30? Who’s to say the changes in our 60s aren’t the "real" maturation?
People look at this sort of thing - what feels like overconfident extrapolation by people educated beyond their competence - and they draw the wrong conclusion and go anti-science. I don’t agree with that reaction, but I can at least see where it comes from.
Still, mothers like in the OP are appalling.
"Thems some fancy lit-up epaulettes you got there, El Presidente...."
and also this https://www.gbnews.com/politics/keir-starmer-cps-child-rapists-let-off-warning-note
was what GB News were hyping.
Besides, I don’t mind the resident pirate or any PBer or anyone in politics claiming Labour negotiated the whole thing from scratch in just 8 weeks as it makes them sound very clueless and stupid.
The Explanatory Memorandum (2025) document published by Parliament I linked to already summarises all the agreements in each eleven rounds of Conservative negotiations, but Labour likely publishes the full minutes of those 11 rounds ahead of commons debate to slaughter the Conservative front bench position.
Chagos deal passes through the commons at 19:21 on May 19th 2026.
I said they made the stupid decision of actually agreeing the damned stupid thing.
Instead of scheduling another 12 rounds of talks.
The problem is that some sectors of those who claim to champion the poor are looking at the richest, and asking why the poor are only 10x better off than in the 70s whilst the richest are 100x better off (made up ratios, because I can't be bothered to find the actual ones).
Of course, the only likely alternative is that everyone would be poorer. The driving motivation of these people is not actually concern for the poor (otherwise they would be in favour of a system which has lifted the poor out of poverty faster than at any other time in history), but jealousy, usually because they haven't turned out super rich like some of the bright kids they went to private school alongside, but were instead so stupid all they could do was go into politics.
You can easily spot these people, they use fraudulent measures like relative poverty (if the poorest person in the world was as rich as Elon Musk, we'd apparently still have loads of poor people by these measures), and talk lots about inequality, because there's vanishingly little actual poverty for them to point to, and when you do find it, it is almost always because the people concerned resist every effort to help them out of it.
* The "Plan A" Framework: The core trade-off—transferring full sovereignty of the archipelago to Mauritius in exchange for a long-term lease of the Diego Garcia military base—was already the established before the change in government to Labour. it was at the September 23 negotiation the framework for ceding sovereignty, the lease, and the substantial payments were all drawn up and put into the existing ongoing Framework document.
* The 99-Year Lease Principle: The concept of a 99-year lease to ensure the "continued effective operation" of the base was a foundational element of the early Conservative-led talks. But 99yr Lease started life in 2019 as a Mauritius offer in a presentation to the US who then contacted UK asking us to explore it as a way out of our problems. Boris passed this on to Liz to explore, who liked the idea and made it government policy to negotiate it.
* Security & Veto Clauses: Technical provisions, such as the 24-nautical-mile buffer zone around Diego Garcia and a veto over foreign military presence on the outer islands, were
* hashed out and agreed in principle during these early rounds to secure UK/US strategic interests.
* The Financial Baseline: While the final £3.4 billion figure was formalised later, UK government has stated that the financial settlement was "acceptable to both sides" and built upon calculations reviewed during those 11 rounds. It was also the Conservatives in the 2023 technical sessions who insisted it must be indexed the £101M annual payments, to ensure the value of the lease remains stable against inflation. It was also established in early rounds that while the UK would provide the "Resettlement Trust Fund," the actual implementation and management of resettlement on the outer islands would be a Mauritian sovereign right.
These are some of the difficult agreements already in place inherited by Labour, which allowed them to finalise everything and own the Chagos Deal in just 8 weeks from coming to power!
I have cut and pasted it from when you obviously missed me boring everyone to death on this detail. I’m pretty much done my eyes are closing. But are you quite clear on the India bit?
It's quite possible to earn a lot more as a time served boilersmith than the average graduate, and if you're any good you'll never struggle to find a job.