Skip to content

The anti-science era – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,918
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    But he didn't answer the important question:

    Do you stuff the turnips inside, or let them roast underneath?
    Ignorance.

    The turnips are for making cask strength turnip juice.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,664
    Back to the header for a moment; What is 'confidence in science' supposed to mean?

    For example, I have huge confidence in the empirical, experimental process and in the trustworthiness of inductive reasoning and the reliability of the science community in reporting truthfully, and in the peer process by which stuff is reviewed, and in the principle of all findings that count as empirical being subject to the possibility of falsification by processes all parties would accept.

    But I don't have any trust in a process in which politicians say they are 'led by the science' or 'following the science' or that scientists themselves are better at difficult moral decisions - which by definition are not empirical science - than the rest of us.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    We should be pressuring to keep more of our banks open and using our pubs more too
    There is an incongruity in your post here in Wales HYUFD. The Chapels kept the pubs closed on a Sunday into the very late 20th Century. In the 1970s you'd see all the (dry) Carmarthenshire boys crossing the Loughor Bridge to take a Sunday constitutional in (wet) Glamorgan.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Good evening

    I do not wash chicken but ensure it is prepared correctly , cooked, and prick tested for temperature

    I prefer to use a meat thermometer, Big_G.
    Same here. Although I use it for a myriad of other cooking applications too.

    One of the things I cannot do,without in the kitchen, or would miss greatly.
    I don't bother with one. I cook for the appropriate time, and then put a knife in it - if the juices run clear, then its cooked.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is, apparently, real.

    “John Barron” just called @CSPAN to complain about the Supreme Court nuking Trump’s tariffs.

    Yes — that John Barron.
    The fake name Trump used for decades.

    They cut him off mid-call.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2025557961595089053

    It could be some prankster impersonating him.
    He didn’t get where he is today impersonating John Barron.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,782

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is, apparently, real.

    “John Barron” just called @CSPAN to complain about the Supreme Court nuking Trump’s tariffs.

    Yes — that John Barron.
    The fake name Trump used for decades.

    They cut him off mid-call.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2025557961595089053

    It's obviously an impersonator though. He sounds too young to be Trump and the voice is slightly off.
    It does sound just a bit too coherent.
    "FAKE NEWS from the RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS!"
    Just a bit of fun...

    Wasn't it quite common on breakfast radio shoes in the 90s?
    Edit: shows
    Are you sure it wasn't a @TSE inspired change?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is, apparently, real.

    “John Barron” just called @CSPAN to complain about the Supreme Court nuking Trump’s tariffs.

    Yes — that John Barron.
    The fake name Trump used for decades.

    They cut him off mid-call.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2025557961595089053

    It's obviously an impersonator though. He sounds too young to be Trump and the voice is slightly off.
    It does sound just a bit too coherent.
    "FAKE NEWS from the RADICAL LEFT LUNATICS!"
    Just a bit of fun...

    Wasn't it quite common on breakfast radio shoes in the 90s?
    Key ingredients of Breakfast shoes being bacon, sausage, eggs and a loafer bread.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,560

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,278
    Taz said:

    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is, apparently, real.

    “John Barron” just called @CSPAN to complain about the Supreme Court nuking Trump’s tariffs.

    Yes — that John Barron.
    The fake name Trump used for decades.

    They cut him off mid-call.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2025557961595089053

    It could be some prankster impersonating him.
    He didn’t get where he is today impersonating John Barron.
    Very good
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,706
    Maybe Trump should be intervening in Mexico instead of Iran.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2025650349214667235

    Passengers seen fleeing onto the tarmac at Puerto Vallarta International Airport in the Mexican state of Jalisco, following attacks by heavily-armed members of the CJNG Cartel.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    1. How patriotic is Christianity, not a British origin religion. Go back to Druidism if they want true British values. Religion should be out of the classroom in all ways, it should be purely personal.

    2. If Christians don’t use churches and there is a risk of them falling apart it’s better they are used for whatever purpose, nightclubs, community centres, weather spoons or mosques.

    3. Fair enough.

    4. Absolutely right, not just expats, anyone who agrees to set up a business in the UK generating x in corporate tax and/or employing a certain number of UK people should be offered big personal tax incentives.
    1 Christian values have been the basis of British culture for over a 1000 years.

    2 C of E churches are normally grade listed so often restricted in use, they normally also require a deed of variation to be used for non Christian worship but this just enforces that.

    Problem is even Christian's do not agree with each other on these so called values
    Well they should be based on what is in the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ
    And there is your problem

    Interpretation of the scriptures varies as does Christ teachings

    I believe all gay couples should be married if they wish in a Church

    Do you, and if not why ?
    No it doesn't, the Ten Commandments are black and white for starters and the teachings of Christ are also pretty clear.

    From Leviticus to Paul there is plenty anti same sex sex and while Jesus did not oppose specifically he made clear matrimony was between one man and one woman for life
    The Ten Commandments are hardly black and white. The Catholics and some Protestants disagree with the Greek Orthodox and some other Protestants as to what they even are! See https://www.logos.com/grow/list-ten-commandments-debate/

    Meanwhile, Jesus says more against divorce than homosexuality, yet somehow more conservative Christians get far more upset about homosexuality than divorce.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Feck of you pompous arsehole of a cretin. Same brain again you would be dangerous. The cooking kills anything , spreading it all over kitchen is for moronic cretins like yourself. GTF and when you get there GTF again.
    You opened this discussion by calling me a crazy. If you enjoy dishing it out, don't be surprised if someone gives it back.
    Helps if you have the brains to comment on the topic rather than try to insult the poster with your ignorance. Any fool knows you are better not to wash chicken as it will spread any bacteria. Ignorance does not get covered by insults. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.
    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Well, you could wash your chicken in strong chlorinated solution….
    "There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Dom, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our Raab-oodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington Milkbar sold Milk-plus, milk plus Corn Syrup, or GM Soya, or Chlorinated Chicken, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old No-Deal Brexit!"
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
    No, as cooking it kills any bacteria.

    Washing it spreads any bacteria before its killed.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,278

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
    No, as cooking it kills any bacteria.

    Washing it spreads any bacteria before its killed.
    Didn't you used to get chickens in cookable bags?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    edited 7:21PM

    Maybe Trump should be intervening in Mexico instead of Iran.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2025650349214667235

    Passengers seen fleeing onto the tarmac at Puerto Vallarta International Airport in the Mexican state of Jalisco, following attacks by heavily-armed members of the CJNG Cartel.

    Are they a bit like the ICE cartel that has been terrorising Minneapolis and St Paul?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    We should be pressuring to keep more of our banks open and using our pubs more too
    My local MP did with Lloyds, they still closed. He’s still fighting to keep the Post Office open.

    Anyway perhaps we should accept things change and repurpose accordingly. In spite of what the nanny state temperance mob would have you believe we drink far less than we used to and that trend is continuing.

    Of course we have a govt that is hostile to the hospitality industry which won’t help. Effectively they are doing what the Resolution Foundation was advocating. Shrinking this low wage industry to help productivity.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,352
    edited 7:23PM
    New article in the Telegraph.

    "Sean Thomas
    We will miss the fat American
    With their innocence and huge size, they reassured us that Europe was still a stage worth performing on" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/22/we-will-miss-the-fat-american
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
    No, as cooking it kills any bacteria.

    Washing it spreads any bacteria before its killed.
    Didn't you used to get chickens in cookable bags?
    Still do.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
    No, as cooking it kills any bacteria.

    Washing it spreads any bacteria before its killed.
    How does it spread any bacteria if you wash the chicken in the sink? Not under the tap but in a pan or bowl? Wipe the sink and pan clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967
    algarkirk said:

    Back to the header for a moment; What is 'confidence in science' supposed to mean?

    For example, I have huge confidence in the empirical, experimental process and in the trustworthiness of inductive reasoning and the reliability of the science community in reporting truthfully, and in the peer process by which stuff is reviewed, and in the principle of all findings that count as empirical being subject to the possibility of falsification by processes all parties would accept.

    But I don't have any trust in a process in which politicians say they are 'led by the science' or 'following the science' or that scientists themselves are better at difficult moral decisions - which by definition are not empirical science - than the rest of us.

    Well, that is a limitation of all quantitative polling.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,777

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,421

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    1. How patriotic is Christianity, not a British origin religion. Go back to Druidism if they want true British values. Religion should be out of the classroom in all ways, it should be purely personal.

    2. If Christians don’t use churches and there is a risk of them falling apart it’s better they are used for whatever purpose, nightclubs, community centres, weather spoons or mosques.

    3. Fair enough.

    4. Absolutely right, not just expats, anyone who agrees to set up a business in the UK generating x in corporate tax and/or employing a certain number of UK people should be offered big personal tax incentives.
    1 Christian values have been the basis of British culture for over a 1000 years.

    2 C of E churches are normally grade listed so often restricted in use, they normally also require a deed of variation to be used for non Christian worship but this just enforces that.

    Problem is even Christian's do not agree with each other on these so called values
    Well they should be based on what is in the Bible, especially the teachings of Christ
    I appreciate that your religion is very important to you but I would rather schools taught the lessons of the enlightenment than any religion. There are too many elements of religion which are unbending and are rules for a different world where homosexuality risked reducing the children born into a tribe, where eating pork and shellfish could kill. Even the quasi-socialist teachings of Jesus would be a bit questionable in the country we live in. Should we ban money lending?
    Well fine, go off and vote Green or Labour then.

    Reform aren't targeting the likes of you but traditional British patriots who like our Christian heritage. Even Jesus praised prudent investment in the Parable of the Talents
    I agree with @boulay, am a Christian, and vote conservative

    You disagree with @boulay, are a Christian, and vote conservative

    Jesus said

    'In my Father's house there are many mansions'
    That's why we need a mansion tax.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Surely the solution to the chicken debate is to switch to Chlorinated chicken 👍
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    QUIET! ALL OF YOU!

    The Winter Olympics Closing Ceremony is about to start!

    We got our highest number of medals in any Winter Olympics since 1924!

    THREE gold, one silver, one bronze.

    OTOH we only finished 15th in the Medal Table, with Norway out in front, followed by the Yanks, and the Netherlands.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/italy-2026/medals
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    Taz said:

    Surely the solution to the chicken debate is to switch to Chlorinated chicken 👍

    Or become vegetarian??? :innocent:
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331

    QUIET! ALL OF YOU!

    The Winter Olympics Closing Ceremony is about to start!

    We got our highest number of medals in any Winter Olympics since 1924!

    THREE gold, one silver, one bronze.

    OTOH we only finished 15th in the Medal Table, with Norway out in front, followed by the Yanks, and the Netherlands.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/italy-2026/medals

    Am I correct that all the Dutch medals came from speed skating? They win a lot in the cycling at the Summer Olympics so maybe, like we did with cycling, setting up a speed skating programme will be a good idea as we don’t, like the Dutch, have a surfeit of handy mountains to train on.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,478

    Taz said:

    Surely the solution to the chicken debate is to switch to Chlorinated chicken 👍

    Or become vegetarian??? :innocent:
    That won't wash

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,075
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    Is the Shirley Temple still there?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,777

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,469

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Feck of you pompous arsehole of a cretin. Same brain again you would be dangerous. The cooking kills anything , spreading it all over kitchen is for moronic cretins like yourself. GTF and when you get there GTF again.
    You opened this discussion by calling me a crazy. If you enjoy dishing it out, don't be surprised if someone gives it back.
    Helps if you have the brains to comment on the topic rather than try to insult the poster with your ignorance. Any fool knows you are better not to wash chicken as it will spread any bacteria. Ignorance does not get covered by insults. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.
    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Well, you could wash your chicken in strong chlorinated solution….
    That's why I take my raw chicken down the local swimming pool.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    I believe it is ignorance
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    Is the Shirley Temple still there?
    We’re more ‘Fans’ or ‘Big Johns’ TBH, I’m not sure if it is.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,897

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Because bacteria gets spread in the air, it goes beyond just the sink.

    Cooking it kills the bacteria, washing it spreads it and makes it go airborne too.

    Its a stupid, stupid idea to wash chicken.
    Hang on. If chicken sits for a while then surely on the surface there's likely to be a build up of bacteria. So gently washing chicken seems very likely to be a good thing to do. (There's also a smell chemical consideration, which also suggests its a wise move)
    No, as cooking it kills any bacteria.

    Washing it spreads any bacteria before its killed.
    How does it spread any bacteria if you wash the chicken in the sink? Not under the tap but in a pan or bowl? Wipe the sink and pan clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Oh dear
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    Yes, it’s a nonsense, the “rich” spend their money on expensive cars contributing lots of lovely VAT and creating jobs. They eat in restaurants and spend more money in expensive shops adding VAT and jobs. They hire domestic staff creating jobs amd contributing to the national tax take. They employ accountants and lawyers. They have money to invest in interesting business. They contribute to charities and the arts. At the moment, if you scare them out of the UK you aren’t getting their personal taxes and you aren’t getting their indirect taxes whereas if you give them very favourable taxes the economy benefits from theor spending and doesn’t cost the state as they use private education and health provision.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198
    Taz said:

    I see that Lucy Powell has written to Wacky Zacky, and gone in studs-first.

    Time to put these Trots back in their box.

    What did she say unto him?
    Slagging off the Greens' dodgy polling, slagging off their highlighting dodgy betting movements, slagging off their lack of knowledge on the ground and slagging off Zack's lack of real interest in Manchester.
    It seems to be open season on the greens.

    Apparently their plumber candidate lives in a massive house in Hale so cannot empathise with G&D.

    Labour kicking the Greens. I wouldn’t be surprised for Labour to be happy to lose to Reform so,they could simply blame the Greens as a pitch to,get voters back.
    I've lived in Hale and if Hannah Spencer's business was based there she's a very smart lady. There's loads of money and no plumbers!. As it happens the story is bullshit. Not every house there costs millions and she she's so obviouslty what she appears that anyone trying to turn her into a hypocrite when one of the other cansidates is Matthew Goodwin is making their party look ridiculous.

    Hannah Spencer....

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/no-hannah-spencer-doesnt-live-33399718
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967
    ... whereas this one https://researchonline.lse.ac.uk/id/eprint/107919/ is the classic paper that found...

    This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and unemployment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reduction in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,478
    We often encounter the phrase 'headless chickens", but I wonder how many of us have seen real headless chickens? They are quite a sight, running around .. err headless
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,331

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    But you can add more economic activity without increasing the cost to the economy by attracting the wealthy to the UK. So yes, on a technical basis they spend a smaller percentage of their wealth it’s still spending and tax take and employment added on top of the existing take.

    They aren’t pushing up house prices in Sheffield for a normal worker, they are spending on focussed high value areas which are not going to be the market for normal people so it’s not making an extra problem, just a pure financial gain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    edited 7:48PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,941
    boulay said:

    QUIET! ALL OF YOU!

    The Winter Olympics Closing Ceremony is about to start!

    We got our highest number of medals in any Winter Olympics since 1924!

    THREE gold, one silver, one bronze.

    OTOH we only finished 15th in the Medal Table, with Norway out in front, followed by the Yanks, and the Netherlands.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/winter-olympics/italy-2026/medals

    Am I correct that all the Dutch medals came from speed skating? They win a lot in the cycling at the Summer Olympics so maybe, like we did with cycling, setting up a speed skating programme will be a good idea as we don’t, like the Dutch, have a surfeit of handy mountains to train on.
    Speed skating is a thing in NL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elfstedentocht
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,238

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    I think that it is generally recognised that the velocity of money is higher with poor people than rich.

    Less likely to be spent on imported luxury goods, foreign holidays and overseas tax sheltered investments too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    ... whereas this one https://researchonline.lse.ac.uk/id/eprint/107919/ is the classic paper that found...

    This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and unemployment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reduction in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.

    The World Economic Forum agree: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2015/10/why-trickle-down-economics-wont-eliminate-poverty/
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    Ignoring the fact that growth requires more than just consumption, it requires investment too which requires savings.

    The UK has a surplus of consumption, that is not our great problem economically. Our biggest problem is that investment gets swallowed up not by investing in production and firms, but chasing fixed assets like overpriced housing to extract rent from.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,478

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    It only boosts the economy if there are underutilised resources. Where there are no underutilised resources because of full employment or because of inflexibilities in production the extra consumption spending just pushes up prices
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,281
    Yashar Ali 🐘
    @yashar

    BREAKING

    The U.S. State Department is urging U.S. citizens in the following areas of Mexico to shelter in place due to security operations and cartel violence.

    This includes Puerto Vallarta.

    This comes after the Mexican army killed the cartel leader known as “El Mencho,” the leader of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel.

    Locations: Jalisco State (including Puerto Vallarta, Chapala, and Guadalajara); Tamaulipas State (including Reynosa and other municipalities); parts of Michoacán State; Guerrero State; and Nuevo León State.

    https://x.com/yashar/status/2025638865676157426

    ===

    To be flippant for a moment - it does mean more chance of Narcos Series IV.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,664

    algarkirk said:

    Back to the header for a moment; What is 'confidence in science' supposed to mean?

    For example, I have huge confidence in the empirical, experimental process and in the trustworthiness of inductive reasoning and the reliability of the science community in reporting truthfully, and in the peer process by which stuff is reviewed, and in the principle of all findings that count as empirical being subject to the possibility of falsification by processes all parties would accept.

    But I don't have any trust in a process in which politicians say they are 'led by the science' or 'following the science' or that scientists themselves are better at difficult moral decisions - which by definition are not empirical science - than the rest of us.

    Well, that is a limitation of all quantitative polling.
    Not quite. If asked how I would vote in a GE held today I understand the question and the answer is comprehensible. If asked about 'confidence in science' I have no idea at all what is meant by the question, and any answer I gave would be useless.

    May I suggest principle: Responses to questions which are intrinsically qualitative cannot be assessed quantitatively.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    But you can add more economic activity without increasing the cost to the economy by attracting the wealthy to the UK. So yes, on a technical basis they spend a smaller percentage of their wealth it’s still spending and tax take and employment added on top of the existing take.

    They aren’t pushing up house prices in Sheffield for a normal worker, they are spending on focussed high value areas which are not going to be the market for normal people so it’s not making an extra problem, just a pure financial gain.
    How are you going to attract them? Most proposals for how to attract them cost money one way or another. So, it's not "pure financial gain". If you spend that money on low-wealth households instead, you do more to boost the economy.

    And greater economic inequality is bad for growth: https://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/51644/1/MPRA_paper_51644.pdf
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,238
    On the subject of tax cuts for the rich. This is a pretty good return for spending $75 million on the fluff flick Melania and gutting the Washington Post:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2026/02/06/amazon-emerges-a-big-winner-from-gop-tax-cuts-00768985
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,281
    Guadalajara?

    Has Trump just found a much cheaper way of distracting from Epstein than going to war with two aircraft carriers against Iran???

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,420
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure how much traction all this "culture wars" nonsense outside the Reform/Restore/Conservative side of the fence.

    I live opposite a Church and know the Vicar fairly well. Financially, despite what some would have you believe, she tells me it's a struggle. The Church and especially its hall is booked out by all sorts of groups from maths/english tutors to evangelical Christians. There are Sunday services in English and Tamil for the local Hindu community.

    Yet she relies on volunteers to do most of the small scale repairs and mainteance both at the Church and the vicarage.

    It's a focal point for the immediate locality and the only Church nearby while the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus all have their places of worship on the High Street.

    As for Yusuf - I think children and young people should be exposed to the basic tenets of a number of faiths and belief systems. I'm not entirely sure what a "patriotic curriculum based on Christianity" means. The Norman Conquest was supported by the Pope and as I recall we broke with the Church of Rome so Henry VIII could re-marry and in WW1, I'm pretty sure while we might have claimed we had God on our side, I'm pretty sure the Germans thought the same.

    I'm interested to see how we can undercut Dubai and Singapore in terms of personal taxation given even the post-Brexit Conservatives realised Singapore-on-Thames was a non-starter.

    I'll be interested to see how Badenoch and Stride react to Yususf's ideas. Our resident Conservative seems to be more interested in attacking the critiques of others rather than stating his own view - does he have an opinion or is he waiting for Kemi to tell him what to think?

    I'm not sure they've got it right but they are at least grappling with the issue. I'd prefer a more wholehearted defence of western modernity though I'm sure someone like Tom Holland would say it had Christian roots.

    We see a younger generation that is losing faith in democracy, free expression and has embraced the Chinese app tik tok as its premier news source. Nation states without a common identity are doomed to factional infighting. It's not 'culture wars', it's a recipe for any increasingly precarious future. Yet there doesn't seem to be a single left of centre politician of any standing who's the slightest bit concerned.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    They demolished the pub which in its own way had a character, and the hotel that replaced it is a horrible building. I suspect the City Planners had an in joke to make somewhere with such a quintessentially English village name like "Maypole" creating images of a joyous spring festival to be as incongruously disgusting looking as was humanly possible.

    What do they say about Birmingham? "Where the Luftwaffe failed the town planners succeeded".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure how much traction all this "culture wars" nonsense outside the Reform/Restore/Conservative side of the fence.

    I live opposite a Church and know the Vicar fairly well. Financially, despite what some would have you believe, she tells me it's a struggle. The Church and especially its hall is booked out by all sorts of groups from maths/english tutors to evangelical Christians. There are Sunday services in English and Tamil for the local Hindu community.

    Yet she relies on volunteers to do most of the small scale repairs and mainteance both at the Church and the vicarage.

    It's a focal point for the immediate locality and the only Church nearby while the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus all have their places of worship on the High Street.

    As for Yusuf - I think children and young people should be exposed to the basic tenets of a number of faiths and belief systems. I'm not entirely sure what a "patriotic curriculum based on Christianity" means. The Norman Conquest was supported by the Pope and as I recall we broke with the Church of Rome so Henry VIII could re-marry and in WW1, I'm pretty sure while we might have claimed we had God on our side, I'm pretty sure the Germans thought the same.

    I'm interested to see how we can undercut Dubai and Singapore in terms of personal taxation given even the post-Brexit Conservatives realised Singapore-on-Thames was a non-starter.

    I'll be interested to see how Badenoch and Stride react to Yususf's ideas. Our resident Conservative seems to be more interested in attacking the critiques of others rather than stating his own view - does he have an opinion or is he waiting for Kemi to tell him what to think?

    I'm not sure they've got it right but they are at least grappling with the issue. I'd prefer a more wholehearted defence of western modernity though I'm sure someone like Tom Holland would say it had Christian roots.

    We see a younger generation that is losing faith in democracy, free expression and has embraced the Chinese app tik tok as its premier news source. Nation states without a common identity are doomed to factional infighting. It's not 'culture wars', it's a recipe for any increasingly precarious future. Yet there doesn't seem to be a single left of centre politician of any standing who's the slightest bit concerned.
    The parties that want to encourage factional infighting and undermine our common identity appear to me to be the parties of the populist right, like Restore Britain or Matt Goodwin who deny Britishness to so many.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Andy_JS said:

    New article in the Telegraph.

    "Sean Thomas
    We will miss the fat American
    With their innocence and huge size, they reassured us that Europe was still a stage worth performing on" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/22/we-will-miss-the-fat-american

    Indeed. The Telegraph remains infamous for its unhinged headlines.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,420

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure how much traction all this "culture wars" nonsense outside the Reform/Restore/Conservative side of the fence.

    I live opposite a Church and know the Vicar fairly well. Financially, despite what some would have you believe, she tells me it's a struggle. The Church and especially its hall is booked out by all sorts of groups from maths/english tutors to evangelical Christians. There are Sunday services in English and Tamil for the local Hindu community.

    Yet she relies on volunteers to do most of the small scale repairs and mainteance both at the Church and the vicarage.

    It's a focal point for the immediate locality and the only Church nearby while the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus all have their places of worship on the High Street.

    As for Yusuf - I think children and young people should be exposed to the basic tenets of a number of faiths and belief systems. I'm not entirely sure what a "patriotic curriculum based on Christianity" means. The Norman Conquest was supported by the Pope and as I recall we broke with the Church of Rome so Henry VIII could re-marry and in WW1, I'm pretty sure while we might have claimed we had God on our side, I'm pretty sure the Germans thought the same.

    I'm interested to see how we can undercut Dubai and Singapore in terms of personal taxation given even the post-Brexit Conservatives realised Singapore-on-Thames was a non-starter.

    I'll be interested to see how Badenoch and Stride react to Yususf's ideas. Our resident Conservative seems to be more interested in attacking the critiques of others rather than stating his own view - does he have an opinion or is he waiting for Kemi to tell him what to think?

    I'm not sure they've got it right but they are at least grappling with the issue. I'd prefer a more wholehearted defence of western modernity though I'm sure someone like Tom Holland would say it had Christian roots.

    We see a younger generation that is losing faith in democracy, free expression and has embraced the Chinese app tik tok as its premier news source. Nation states without a common identity are doomed to factional infighting. It's not 'culture wars', it's a recipe for any increasingly precarious future. Yet there doesn't seem to be a single left of centre politician of any standing who's the slightest bit concerned.
    The parties that want to encourage factional infighting and undermine our common identity appear to me to be the parties of the populist right, like Restore Britain or Matt Goodwin who deny Britishness to so many.
    Fine. So what IS our common identity?
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,075
    Things seem to have kicked off massively in Mexico.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198

    Andy_JS said:

    New article in the Telegraph.

    "Sean Thomas
    We will miss the fat American
    With their innocence and huge size, they reassured us that Europe was still a stage worth performing on" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/22/we-will-miss-the-fat-american

    Indeed. The Telegraph remains infamous for its unhinged headlines.
    It's not just the headline that's unhinged....try reading the article
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,477
    edited 8:10PM
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    It only boosts the economy if there are underutilised resources. Where there are no underutilised resources because of full employment or because of inflexibilities in production the extra consumption spending just pushes up prices
    There is an argument that such an increase in consumption might stimulate a bit of investment too. It really depends on what low-income households spend their cash on - if it's supermarket food, it would just increase imports. With housing, probably inflation because supply is so sticky (except where building is current not profitable). With eating out, you'd get a bit of a mix. Cars, clothes, imports again.

    The problem is that it's evidently very difficult to get much private/business investment going, even with really low interest rates for over a decade, QE, super-deductions, and exceptionally high saving rates for high income households during COVID. It's why I think the government needs to take responsibility for it, at least in the short-medium term.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    New article in the Telegraph.

    "Sean Thomas
    We will miss the fat American
    With their innocence and huge size, they reassured us that Europe was still a stage worth performing on" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/22/we-will-miss-the-fat-american

    Indeed. The Telegraph remains infamous for its unhinged headlines.
    It's not just the headline that's unhinged....try reading the article
    Do I have to?

    Is @Andy_JS another of @SeanT 's PB nom de plume's
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517
    Eabhal said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    Those expats may create new paid jobs on their return too to benefit people at the bottom
    But they usually don’t. Give rich people money and it tends to just sit there. Give poor people money and goes straight back into the economy.
    Which is why “poor”‘people remain poor.

    Giving “rich” people money and it “just sits there”? Horse shit.
    https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/451369?journalCode=edcc
    That’s a load of horse shit too. Just because you post a link to a “study” (because - you know that’s what it is right - it’’s not some truth handed down by the gods) which aligns to your political beliefs it doesn’t make you right.

    “Rich” people’s money just “sits there”. I’ve read some crap on PB in my time but that’s right up there.
    This one's https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/research-department-working-paper/2019/estimating-the-marginal-propensity-to-consume-using-the-distributions-income-consumption-wealth.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com better on the specific point I was making. In more technical terms, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) — the share of an extra £ or $ of income that households spend rather than save — is higher in low-wealth households. This means that extra income to poorer groups translates into more consumption, boosting the economy.
    It only boosts the economy if there are underutilised resources. Where there are no underutilised resources because of full employment or because of inflexibilities in production the extra consumption spending just pushes up prices
    There is an argument that such an increase in consumption might stimulate a bit of investment too. It really depends on what low-income households spend their cash on - if it's supermarket food, it would just increase imports. With housing, probably inflation because supply is so sticky (except where building is current not profitable). With eating out, you'd get a bit of a mix. Cars, clothes, imports again.

    The problem is that it's evidently very difficult to get much private/business investment going, even with really low interest rates for over a decade, QE, super-deductions, and exceptionally high saving rates for high income households during COVID. It's why I think the government needs to take responsibility for it, at least in the short-medium term.
    The government is not the solution it is the problem.

    The reason we have a shortfall of investment in construction etc is not because its unprofitable to do it, its because the government says anyone who does it without permission is breaking the law - and apart from the oligopoly that can manage the system by planning estates at a time (and bank land to go years through the legal processes), the rest of society struggles to get permission.

    Cut the red tape, get out of the way and implement some free market liberalism and things would get moving quite rapidly.

    The one thing government can and should invest in is infrastructure, not businesses. Build new motorways, new bridges and new connections that don't currently exist. Sadly they singularly fail to do that.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 704

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    They demolished the pub which in its own way had a character, and the hotel that replaced it is a horrible building. I suspect the City Planners had an in joke to make somewhere with such a quintessentially English village name like "Maypole" creating images of a joyous spring festival to be as incongruously disgusting looking as was humanly possible.

    What do they say about Birmingham? "Where the Luftwaffe failed the town planners succeeded".
    If I remember correctly the Maypole was in the Guinness Book of records for the longest bar.

    Not sure iif in Europe or the world.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure how much traction all this "culture wars" nonsense outside the Reform/Restore/Conservative side of the fence.

    I live opposite a Church and know the Vicar fairly well. Financially, despite what some would have you believe, she tells me it's a struggle. The Church and especially its hall is booked out by all sorts of groups from maths/english tutors to evangelical Christians. There are Sunday services in English and Tamil for the local Hindu community.

    Yet she relies on volunteers to do most of the small scale repairs and mainteance both at the Church and the vicarage.

    It's a focal point for the immediate locality and the only Church nearby while the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus all have their places of worship on the High Street.

    As for Yusuf - I think children and young people should be exposed to the basic tenets of a number of faiths and belief systems. I'm not entirely sure what a "patriotic curriculum based on Christianity" means. The Norman Conquest was supported by the Pope and as I recall we broke with the Church of Rome so Henry VIII could re-marry and in WW1, I'm pretty sure while we might have claimed we had God on our side, I'm pretty sure the Germans thought the same.

    I'm interested to see how we can undercut Dubai and Singapore in terms of personal taxation given even the post-Brexit Conservatives realised Singapore-on-Thames was a non-starter.

    I'll be interested to see how Badenoch and Stride react to Yususf's ideas. Our resident Conservative seems to be more interested in attacking the critiques of others rather than stating his own view - does he have an opinion or is he waiting for Kemi to tell him what to think?

    I'm not sure they've got it right but they are at least grappling with the issue. I'd prefer a more wholehearted defence of western modernity though I'm sure someone like Tom Holland would say it had Christian roots.

    We see a younger generation that is losing faith in democracy, free expression and has embraced the Chinese app tik tok as its premier news source. Nation states without a common identity are doomed to factional infighting. It's not 'culture wars', it's a recipe for any increasingly precarious future. Yet there doesn't seem to be a single left of centre politician of any standing who's the slightest bit concerned.
    The parties that want to encourage factional infighting and undermine our common identity appear to me to be the parties of the populist right, like Restore Britain or Matt Goodwin who deny Britishness to so many.
    Fine. So what IS our common identity?
    I'm watching the Winter Olympics closing ceremony and sport can be one unifier, but there are many others. Our common culture, that has Christian roots (by which I do not mean some weird US-imported idea of Christian Nationalism), but is not exclusively Christian (last census 47% Christian, 38% no religion). I live in a city that is just shy of 2000 years old and that continuity and tradition can be shared with all that come here. LIke you, I would champion democracy and free expression, and am sceptical of those using social media for their news!
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    They demolished the pub which in its own way had a character, and the hotel that replaced it is a horrible building. I suspect the City Planners had an in joke to make somewhere with such a quintessentially English village name like "Maypole" creating images of a joyous spring festival to be as incongruously disgusting looking as was humanly possible.

    What do they say about Birmingham? "Where the Luftwaffe failed the town planners succeeded".
    It was a sad day when they knocked down the old brutalist library a couple of years back.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
    Yes it does.

    That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
    I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
    does the water speak to you, FFS barking
    Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,706

    Things seem to have kicked off massively in Mexico.

    If the reports of American hostages being taken are true then it could really kick off.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    Only crazies never wash food items that have sitting on supermarket shelves for ages.
    Another moron , it i sin wrapping you cretinous clown. Mental vegan would not understand how an oven works
    You are the batshit crazy who knows SFA about food hygiene!
    @malcolmg is entirely correct: https://www.swinburne.edu.au/news/2023/01/no-you-shouldnt-wash-raw-chicken-before-cooking-it-so-why-do-people-still-do-it/
    "Should" not or "must" not?

    How will it spread bacteria "everywhere" if you wash the chicken in the sink? Wipe the sink clean with Cif or Flash or whatever? And then wash your hands thoroughly with soap?
    Quite. The point about not washing it is, as I said, because there is a danger of droplets of chicken-y water getting into corners (wet cloths, spoons left on top of surfaces) and bacteria multiplying in that damp space without being cleaned away, later resulting in food poisoning. Therefore it is considered in the greater public good for nobody to wash their chicken at all. That doesn't mean it's bad to do it if you clean the area afterwards.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
    Yes it does.

    That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
    I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
    does the water speak to you, FFS barking
    Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
    How exactly do you tell if there's anything untoward with the meat after washing it?

    Especially given that one of the warning signs that the meat has gone bad is if it gets slimy, and washing it could remove that, not assist in revealing it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,706
    Republican US Senator from Ohio:

    https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/2025656255138902171

    The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111

    ... whereas this one https://researchonline.lse.ac.uk/id/eprint/107919/ is the classic paper that found...

    This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and unemployment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reduction in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.

    The World Economic Forum agree: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2015/10/why-trickle-down-economics-wont-eliminate-poverty/
    Bless you. Not sure that's the killer argument you feel it is.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,123
    Nice thread header.

    The UK thankfully seems more resilient to this stuff than America. I think its partly that BBC is a national unifier and still fairly trusted. It could also be the love of the NHS also - whereas in US people are much more sceptical of healthcare providers.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,517

    Republican US Senator from Ohio:

    https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/2025656255138902171

    The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.

    Seems like the Mexican government has taken quite a step in this fight today without any US back up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    They demolished the pub which in its own way had a character, and the hotel that replaced it is a horrible building. I suspect the City Planners had an in joke to make somewhere with such a quintessentially English village name like "Maypole" creating images of a joyous spring festival to be as incongruously disgusting looking as was humanly possible.

    What do they say about Birmingham? "Where the Luftwaffe failed the town planners succeeded".
    If I remember correctly the Maypole was in the Guinness Book of records for the longest bar.

    Not sure iif in Europe or the world.
    I am sure the Maypole pub could have been repurposed more sympathetically than being demolished for the World's most hideous former Travelodge.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Greenhouse gases are not injurious to human health as far as I am aware.

    Neither is raw chicken but you still wash it in your sink
    I never wash raw chicken. Why does anyone?
    Big no no as you spead any bacteria everywhere, only crazies wash chicken
    I wash chicken. If you don't clean your kitchen (as it appears your household doesn't) it is probably best to avoid doing it, as you can spread bacteria that can then fester in unwashed spaces.
    Does cooking not kill the bacteria?
    Yes it does.

    That said, if you like your chicken very soft and barely cooked, it probably doesn't do any harm.
    I don't do it to rid the chicken of bacteria, I do it to check the chicken is OK, and to wash off the residue from plastic packaging.
    does the water speak to you, FFS barking
    Of course not, but whilst washing it, you can see if there is anything untoward with the meat, in a way that chucking it in a pan or on to a roasting tray, you can't.
    How exactly do you tell if there's anything untoward with the meat after washing it?

    Especially given that one of the warning signs that the meat has gone bad is if it gets slimy, and washing it could remove that, not assist in revealing it.
    If you wash the meat before cooking it, you are far more likely to discover that it's slimy, aren't you? You are handling the meat and manually checking it, not putting it through a carwash.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561

    Republican US Senator from Ohio:

    https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/2025656255138902171

    The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.

    Give your head a wobble William.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,450

    Republican US Senator from Ohio:

    https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/2025656255138902171

    The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.

    Seems like the Mexican government has taken quite a step in this fight today without any US back up.
    I think we need to be careful of a lot of the rumours, especially that this killing of the crim was involved US special forces. Too fluid right now

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,578

    Taz said:

    Surely the solution to the chicken debate is to switch to Chlorinated chicken 👍

    Or become vegetarian??? :innocent:
    Have you seen the numbers for salad borne listeria deaths in the US ?

    Admittedly an order of magnitude lower than fast food chicken.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,075

    Things seem to have kicked off massively in Mexico.

    If the reports of American hostages being taken are true then it could really kick off.
    Apparently the cartel(s) have issued a list of demands to be met by a set time, or else.

    This could be very messy, particularly as The Donald has deployed a ton of military power to the ME to put the wind up the Ayatollah, the Mexicans don't seem to have picked the best time if they need backup.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,596
    Everyone with sense knows that chicken breast is best cooked sous vide
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    New article in the Telegraph.

    "Sean Thomas
    We will miss the fat American
    With their innocence and huge size, they reassured us that Europe was still a stage worth performing on" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/22/we-will-miss-the-fat-american

    Indeed. The Telegraph remains infamous for its unhinged headlines.
    It's not just the headline that's unhinged....try reading the article
    I read it. Three or four minutes out of my life I will never get back. Mind you the comments are more informative. David Cameron has a few responsive posts and I can't disagree with poster Patrick Taggart.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
    Small world. My Dad was a member there too.

    I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.

    Fantastic days.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,967

    ... whereas this one https://researchonline.lse.ac.uk/id/eprint/107919/ is the classic paper that found...

    This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and unemployment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reduction in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.

    The World Economic Forum agree: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2015/10/why-trickle-down-economics-wont-eliminate-poverty/
    Bless you. Not sure that's the killer argument you feel it is.
    We know you believe in conspiracy theories.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Surely the solution to the chicken debate is to switch to Chlorinated chicken 👍

    Or become vegetarian??? :innocent:
    Have you seen the numbers for salad borne listeria deaths in the US ?

    Admittedly an order of magnitude lower than fast food chicken.
    Because they don't wash the ingredients, perchance?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,136
    edited 8:43PM

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure how much traction all this "culture wars" nonsense outside the Reform/Restore/Conservative side of the fence.

    I live opposite a Church and know the Vicar fairly well. Financially, despite what some would have you believe, she tells me it's a struggle. The Church and especially its hall is booked out by all sorts of groups from maths/english tutors to evangelical Christians. There are Sunday services in English and Tamil for the local Hindu community.

    Yet she relies on volunteers to do most of the small scale repairs and mainteance both at the Church and the vicarage.

    It's a focal point for the immediate locality and the only Church nearby while the Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus all have their places of worship on the High Street.

    As for Yusuf - I think children and young people should be exposed to the basic tenets of a number of faiths and belief systems. I'm not entirely sure what a "patriotic curriculum based on Christianity" means. The Norman Conquest was supported by the Pope and as I recall we broke with the Church of Rome so Henry VIII could re-marry and in WW1, I'm pretty sure while we might have claimed we had God on our side, I'm pretty sure the Germans thought the same.

    I'm interested to see how we can undercut Dubai and Singapore in terms of personal taxation given even the post-Brexit Conservatives realised Singapore-on-Thames was a non-starter.

    I'll be interested to see how Badenoch and Stride react to Yususf's ideas. Our resident Conservative seems to be more interested in attacking the critiques of others rather than stating his own view - does he have an opinion or is he waiting for Kemi to tell him what to think?

    I'm not sure they've got it right but they are at least grappling with the issue. I'd prefer a more wholehearted defence of western modernity though I'm sure someone like Tom Holland would say it had Christian roots.

    We see a younger generation that is losing faith in democracy, free expression and has embraced the Chinese app tik tok as its premier news source. Nation states without a common identity are doomed to factional infighting. It's not 'culture wars', it's a recipe for any increasingly precarious future. Yet there doesn't seem to be a single left of centre politician of any standing who's the slightest bit concerned.
    I'm not sure I agree and I'm nowhere near as pessimistic.

    I do agree "the West" has a lot for which it should be proud and the scientific accomplishments and advances initiated in and by Europe are and should be repeated to successive generations.

    The likes of Yusuf aren't interested in modernity and embracing the future. They imagine the people for whom this claptrap is intended see everything through a romanticised prism of the past and both Reform and Restore have politicised nostalgia and while we can all say nostalgia ain't what it used to be, neither is the romanticism of the past predicated on anything approaching how it really was.

    Try to imagine where we are now and how far we have come since 1926 and imagine where we could be in 2126 and that's not to underestimate all the challenges before us in the future. I enjoy the present.

    As for future generations, I wholly disagree there is "no common identity". I've long argued there are five nationalities - the English, the Irish, the Scots, the Welsh and the British with the last group being those born here of parents who came from elsewhere. The new British are as much part of our nation as all the others and it will evolve accordingly - it won't be as it is or as it was but it will still be Britain and whether that common identity is via sport or language or something else, it will be as important to them as faith was to our parents and grand parents.

    I'm also not sure why you have another pop at "the left" as though everything is always their fault.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,936

    ... whereas this one https://researchonline.lse.ac.uk/id/eprint/107919/ is the classic paper that found...

    This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and unemployment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reduction in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.

    The World Economic Forum agree: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2015/10/why-trickle-down-economics-wont-eliminate-poverty/
    Bless you. Not sure that's the killer argument you feel it is.
    We know you believe in conspiracy theories.
    "God created the Universe" - oldest conspiracy theory in the book.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
    Small world. My Dad was a member there too.

    I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.

    Fantastic days.
    He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    They demolished the pub which in its own way had a character, and the hotel that replaced it is a horrible building. I suspect the City Planners had an in joke to make somewhere with such a quintessentially English village name like "Maypole" creating images of a joyous spring festival to be as incongruously disgusting looking as was humanly possible.

    What do they say about Birmingham? "Where the Luftwaffe failed the town planners succeeded".
    If I remember correctly the Maypole was in the Guinness Book of records for the longest bar.

    Not sure iif in Europe or the world.
    I remember the Shaftmoor pub had an epsidode of Dalziel and Pascoe filmed jn it when it was boarded up prior to demolition.

    Not sure about the Maypoles bar. I did ask Grok but it didn’t know.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,236
    edited 8:46PM

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
    Small world. My Dad was a member there too.

    I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.

    Fantastic days.
    He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
    No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,918

    Republican US Senator from Ohio:

    https://x.com/berniemoreno/status/2025656255138902171

    The Mexican government has to make the right decision for its people and seek US military back up to end the threat of narco terrorists before it’s too late. The drug cartels are a clear and present danger to the US and must be exterminated.

    Give your head a wobble William.
    Probably Tom Clancy's best book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clear-Present-Danger-Tom-Clancy/dp/0006177301

    It details, among other things, why using military force against drug cartels is a bad idea.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111
    ...
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
    Small world. My Dad was a member there too.

    I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.

    Fantastic days.
    He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
    No, he was more round ball than oval ball.
    I am sure it was all muscle.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,111

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Point 1: Touched, as always, that politicians think that teachers are that powerful.

    Point 2: CofE churches are outside the standard planning system anyway, and the last thing any church wants is to be listed.

    Point 3: (Sgt Wilson voice) Are you sure that's entirely wise, sir?

    Point 4: Now we get to the point. How much would high-profile expats stand to benefit from this, and where is the money coming from? To take a purely random example, Isabel Oakeshott?

    It is very Trumpian, and quite cynical; the people at the top get juicy tax cuts, the people at the bottom are apparently dumb enough to be bought off with some culture war noises.
    If we are lowering taxes (as we should and must - they are at a post-war high and it's killing the country), as well as making doing business easier, of course it makes sense to promote the idea of returning to Britain to wealthy and ambitious ex pats.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,870

    Things seem to have kicked off massively in Mexico.

    If the reports of American hostages being taken are true then it could really kick off.
    Apparently the cartel(s) have issued a list of demands to be met by a set time, or else.

    This could be very messy, particularly as The Donald has deployed a ton of military power to the ME to put the wind up the Ayatollah, the Mexicans don't seem to have picked the best time if they need backup.
    Think the American military is big enough to cope.

    Apparently they've ~60 tankers in the ME right now, that is just 15% of their total number. The sheer amount of stuff they have to play with means Trump can bomb the cartels to his hearts content, whilst bombing the Iranians/Lebanese/Iraqis/Yemeni and drone striking those boats in the Pacific.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,561
    edited 8:53PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Reform’s Zia Yusuf will announce plans to “restore Britain’s Christian heritage” tomorrow

    - Introduce a “patriotic curriculum” based on Christianity to give children “more things to take pride in again”

    - Stop churches being converted into mosques by granting them listed status and requiring planning permission

    - Force police to search homes of everyone referred to Prevent to crackdown on “Islamic extremism”

    - Launch outreach programme encouraging expats in Dubai and Singapore to return by pledging lower taxes'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2025629386104549500?s=20

    Why shouldn’t a church be converted to a Mosque if there’s no demand for the former in the area but plenty of demand for the latter ?

    Prevent seem obsessed with the Far Right, like the lecturer who showed a class a Donald Trump video, this was a class studying US politics. He ended up losing his job and was accused of causing his students ‘emotional harm ‘
    As it was set up for Christian worship and if Muslims want a new Mosque they can build one
    What is the point of an underutilised/unused building in a mainly Muslim area ? Repurpose it.

    Same if former churches are turned into residences or pubs.

    It’s just a building. Bricks and mortar.
    I like it to be appropriate. Churches turned into nursery schools, nice cafes and craft shops I am happy with. Tattoo parlours no. I just don’t like it. Respect the spirit and heritage of the place.
    A Spoons ? Like former banks become ?

    A former pub in my town is being turned into a nursery.

    There’s an old church in Tynemouth which has been turned into a hub with craft shops and bars called Land of Green Ginger. It’s nice. I like Vineyard 72 for the charcuterie and wine.
    You could rent or buy this one. It's been offices for about 30 years. They used to peal the bells in that beautiful bell tower when I was a kid.


    https://www.siddalljones.com/property/carillon-house-chapel-lane-wythall-birmingham-b47-6jx/
    Ooh, that’s a great place to work it looks like. My niece helped out at the a local animal sanctuary a few years back

    I did a few weeks at the Deer Park in Stoneleigh. The drive in you had to be careful for the little bunnies on the road.

    Wythall a part of Brum !! My Mom would have a coronary at the thought.
    Birmingham starts at the Maypole across the road from Sainsburys. Maypole Sainsbury's is still in Worcestershire.
    Indeed it is, not far from the golf club. I’ve never been in that Sainsburys. When I’m down I prefer the Shirley one.
    It was a sad day when Gay Hill Golf Club ( the one I assume to which you allude) was renamed Hollywood Golf Club.

    Sainsbury's was a little parade of shops and housing when I lived in Wythall and the former Travelodge opposite Sainsbury's was the Maypole pub, one of Birmingham's famous enormous pubs. It was huge.
    Yes, Gay Hill,Golf Club. Knew it well. I remember the Maypole pub too. Most classy it was !!
    My dad was a member at Gay Hill. I was a bit too queasy to play there as a teenager. I would play at Fulford Heath or Kings Norton. We could walk across the fields to both from Meadow Road carrying a wood, a seven iron, a putter and a pitching wedge in a light shoulder golf bag and play nine holes without troubling the clubhouses and associated green fees.
    Small world. My Dad was a member there too.

    I used to play, with work colleagues on Fridays many years back, at Cocks Moor municipal, we’d finish work at 1 in Acocks Green, head over and play 9 or 18 depending on the time of year.

    Fantastic days.
    He didn't have anything to do with Woodrush Rugby Club did he? If he did he'd have certainly known my Dad.
    No, he was more round ball than oval ball or cricket in the summer.
    I daresay he was a "Bluenose" from that neck of the woods. Not many Villains at Woodrush School, a couple of Baggies including myself, almost everyone else was either a Nose or a Man Utd fan.
Sign In or Register to comment.