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This was the worst performance by a Scotsman since Italy v Scotland last weekend

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,243
    I was sceptical, but Wonder Man is brilliant.

    Ben Kingsley's best role in ages.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,271

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Did they ask for their thoughts on Andrew Tate?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,279

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    Whatever gave you that idea?
    He's in favour of how stuff was done in the old days.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    Stereodog said:

    kle4 said:

    Lord McSweeney nailed on in the SKS resignation honours list methinks

    According to wikipedia Blair and Brown did not issue resignation honours (though Brown had a dissolution list to the same basic effect), so Starmer should steer clear of such a Tory crony tactic!
    Problem with that high minded approach is that it further entrenches a Tory majority in the Lords
    An easily solved problem, given they are looking to make various changes to the Lords anyway.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,553

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    Since he belongs to the "WorkingFromTrumpsBottom" class, he can eff right off with that.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,271

    Michael Crick
    @MichaelLCrick
    ·
    2h
    John Healey looks a good bet. The Labour Right like his defence work; the Left recall his media work for the union MSF & the TUC. Aged 66, he may wven appeal to young wannabe leaders, on the rule that young cardinals vote for old popes!

    https://x.com/MichaelLCrick/status/2020930546529075638

    ***Buffs nails***
    You also tipped Hilary Benn ;)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,063
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,441

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    I'm sure it appeals to his older voters.

    "I never worked from home. Never happened in my day. Got up every morning at 5 and went in to work. Day in day out. It's a con. They just sit around at home and watch TV pretending to work" etc etc.

    Rather ironic as I imagine the crossover with the "everyone must stay at home for 5 years during the pandemic even after vaccines and stuff just because" brigade is high.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,915
    edited February 9

    https://x.com/kallumpickering/status/2020888253084102993

    Serious point. . . .If Starmer can just hang on a few months the narrative can turn in his favour: inflation should drop to 2%, growth is returning, interest rates will have fallen further (BoE cut in March likely), immigration down and various key bills passed.

    Hmm

    Growth returning....the predictions for piss poor levels of growth have recently been downgraded further by independent bodies. There was a report that the downgrades and other costs have probably already done for Rachels headroom. 1.x% growth every year doesn't make anybody feel better off.
  • Dopermean said:

    Michael Crick
    @MichaelLCrick
    ·
    2h
    John Healey looks a good bet. The Labour Right like his defence work; the Left recall his media work for the union MSF & the TUC. Aged 66, he may wven appeal to young wannabe leaders, on the rule that young cardinals vote for old popes!

    https://x.com/MichaelLCrick/status/2020930546529075638

    ***Buffs nails***
    You also tipped Hilary Benn ;)
    Trading bet.
  • On the assumption Starmer doesn’t run for 2029, he’s basically got a free run to do whatever he wants. What will that be?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,083

    On the assumption Starmer doesn’t run for 2029, he’s basically got a free run to do whatever he wants. What will that be?

    Well, for Sunak it was chess sets for every school, so there's that as a baseline to judge.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 484
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    Couldn't agree with you more. If the next Labour leader is to be a man, Ed M stands more chance with the members.

    Thought Wes S performance on the BBC on election night post exit poll (but pre his result) was very condescending
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,441
    Anyway, surely Farage should want us to be able to work from the pub.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    edited February 9

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    Reminds me a bit of reading about early Amazon, surrounded by tech companies offering all manner of freebies and casual atmosphere to entice people, whereas Bezos was basically "You'll work until you drop from exhaustion, snitch on each other as company policy, and get nothing", and apparently that has worked out ok for them (maybe they lightened up later, IDK). Let companies and organisations figure out what they want to do.

    I almost prefer him to other tech ceos because he seems slightly more honest about seeing people as nothing but numbers to be crunched on a spreadsheet, cogs rather than real human beings. Not fully honest, but closer.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,528
    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Flexible working has been a right for a while - I'm surprised that that council doesn't have a whole set of employment tribunals lined up.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    kle4 said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    I choose not to work from home, but I don't see what's the matter with letting the market decide on this one. A politician can easily therefore rail against it to earn boomer cred, without actually needing to suggest doing anything about it.
    What business is it of the State?

    Aren't there any libertarians left in Reform?


    If they want to remain a popular party, they need to be extremely interventionist, just on the things voters want government to intefere on, which is a lot of stuff.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,105
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    One thing I've noticed is Streeting seems popular with people who also say they don't like career politicians. Somehow his persona makes them forget this.
    I dont see the appeal either.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,596
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

    To be fair all his companies have lord of the rings connections (eg Anduril)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

    To be fair all his companies have lord of the rings connections (eg Anduril)
    Shocked he doesn't have an AI company called Ainulindalë AI, or Ilúvatar Industries.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,915
    edited February 9
    Streeting vs Starmer I see is back on, briefing against vs trying to organise a coup...as they said in the Thick of It, It's the pre-match spar for the big super gay weight title fight, eh?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,015
    edited February 9
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Flexible working has been a right for a while - I'm surprised that that council doesn't have a whole set of employment tribunals lined up.

    It is a right to REQUEST flexible working, aiui.

    That's exactly the kind of non-compulsory aim to come up woth a practical arrangement thing that Reform UK will piss on.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,437

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    It solves all sorts of other problems, including what to do with towns that have lost their old employer and aren't really connected enough to be commuter bases for productive cities. And ensuring that residential areas aren't just dormitories. And bringing trade into provincial High Streets. Etc. It's probably also healthier for our spirits- I'm pretty sure that humans aren't particularly evolved to spend a couple of hours a day in various sorts of metal box to get from where they live to where they work.

    But when push comes to shove, nostalgia for how things were in our youth is a heck of a drug and Douglas Adams's theory of technology and age is a shrewd observation.
    If Labour can actually get its act together, it really should be pretty simple to portray Reform as wanting to turn anyone of working age into a Japanese salaryman at an election.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,297
    The process man, undone by a failure to follow process.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,884

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    carnforth said:

    The process man, undone by a failure to follow process.

    A true process man would want to be undone in such a fashion.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,458
    carnforth said:

    The process man, undone by a failure to follow process.

    He's a real process man
    Sitting in his process land
    Making all his process plans for nobody
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    Traffic enforcement officers don't work from home and I don't think people generally thank them for their good service as a result.

    Obviously that's a joke, but the fundamental point as hinted by your post is that people want the service to be good - if they think it is, they won't care if the person providing it was wfh. If they think it isn't, they might care if the person was wfh, but whether that was a contributory factor would still depend on a case by case basis.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,553
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

    To be fair all his companies have lord of the rings connections (eg Anduril)
    Shocked he doesn't have an AI company called Ainulindalë AI, or Ilúvatar Industries.
    I think we should just cut to the chase and call it Morgoth Industries
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    It solves all sorts of other problems, including what to do with towns that have lost their old employer and aren't really connected enough to be commuter bases for productive cities. And ensuring that residential areas aren't just dormitories. And bringing trade into provincial High Streets. Etc. It's probably also healthier for our spirits- I'm pretty sure that humans aren't particularly evolved to spend a couple of hours a day in various sorts of metal box to get from where they live to where they work.

    But when push comes to shove, nostalgia for how things were in our youth is a heck of a drug and Douglas Adams's theory of technology and age is a shrewd observation.
    If Labour can actually get its act together, it really should be pretty simple to portray Reform as wanting to turn anyone of working age into a Japanese salaryman at an election.
    I can also see tremendous success in the civil service and local government when Reform tells them they are all crap, way too overpaid, and most of them don't need to be there.

    Believe that there's much to fat to trim, sure, but I suspect the first out the door would be the more worthwhile ones, so a slimming down would need pare down to the cream fo the crop.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,086
    edited February 9

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    Opening (or reopening) the office space required to eliminate WFH would increase overheads and reduce efficiency and productivity (through time lost to commuting and goodwill for internal overtime withdrawn).

    In addition, in 2026, most of us who work or manage staff who work would favour on person contact 2-4 day per week; but few would favour 5 without specific reasons. It’s harder to attract or retain good staff that way, and removes “nose to the grindstone, no interruptions” days at home.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

    To be fair all his companies have lord of the rings connections (eg Anduril)
    Shocked he doesn't have an AI company called Ainulindalë AI, or Ilúvatar Industries.
    I think we should just cut to the chase and call it Morgoth Industries
    Reminds me of this meme

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,884
    DoctorG said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    If the pandemic proved anything, surely it is that people can do exactly the same job sitting behind a desk at home several (or all) days of the week, without spending an hour plus per day stuck in traffic cursing other drivers travelling to an office. Less needless car journeys as well
    Some people might. Many, many millions cannot.

    And some of those who might be able to do so will still have lower productivity working from home than they would do at their workplace.

    I couldn't work from home and even if I could I would likely have lower productivity.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,528

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    The problem is that the public sector has cut public facing workers for years so while say there was 20 dealing with problems 10 years ago there is now 5-10 but the calls haven't been reduced.

    Mind you I remember a conversation a couple of years back where i discovered people spend 10 minutes on the phone to get their account balance even though it was one of the first options on the phone line menu - no matter what they did people were willing to wait..
  • eekeek Posts: 32,528
    edited February 9
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Flexible working has been a right for a while - I'm surprised that that council doesn't have a whole set of employment tribunals lined up.

    It is a right to REQUEST flexible working, aiui.

    That's exactly the kind of non-compulsory aim to come up woth a practical arrangement thing that Reform UK will piss on.
    My point is that that couple would have had some variation of flexible working - and removing it without a real justification has to be triggering employment tribunals because unions won't let things lie...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    DoctorG said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    If the pandemic proved anything, surely it is that people can do exactly the same job sitting behind a desk at home several (or all) days of the week, without spending an hour plus per day stuck in traffic cursing other drivers travelling to an office. Less needless car journeys as well
    Some people might. Many, many millions cannot.

    And some of those who might be able to do so will still have lower productivity working from home than they would do at their workplace.

    I couldn't work from home and even if I could I would likely have lower productivity.
    I know I do. More access to PB for a start.

    There are advantages to working from the office, including less qualitatitive social ones, and it hink people overdo the 'horrors' of being forced to work from an office as if those are universal - aided by pop culture making it seem that way, even as a lot of people in the creative arts have never worked in those environments, did so briefly, or perhaps just were not the sort of person for whom it works well.

    Hence the need for flexibility rather than imposition.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,550
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    More in Common focus group:

    https://x.com/rhiannon_e_m/status/2020964547201466811

    Just finished a focus group with (mainly white, working class, young, male) Rooted Patriots.

    They are horrified by the whole Mandelson story, and think it taints the whole government - "I've got no sympathy with any of them, they're all guilty by association"

    In this group, Starmer's position is untenable. They not only think he should go, but think that this is now an inevitability. "The trust is gone, and there's no going back from that"

    It's not just Starmer who people have lost faith in, it's anyone around him who they think might have turned a blind eye to any knowledge of Mandelson and Epstein's relationship: "The whole cabinet need to go and we need to start again"

    Did they Think that Trump, Musk and Theil should also go?
    We're not Americans so there's no point having an opinion one way or the other.
    Unlike Trump and Musk I shouldn't think most people in Britain have heard of Thiel until recently.
    He is the guy that Mamdelson was shilling for, and landed Palantir contracts managing our data from the MoD (does this include Mi5, Mi6 and GCHQ?) as well as the NHS.

    Theil deliberately named his company after the "Palantir" device in the LoTR used by Sauron to spy and manipulate others. Truly hiding in plain sight.

    To be fair all his companies have lord of the rings connections (eg Anduril)
    Shocked he doesn't have an AI company called Ainulindalë AI, or Ilúvatar Industries.
    I think we should just cut to the chase and call it Morgoth Industries
    In his case, it's more Mount Doom.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,666
    This is fun:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5w-oxgmwTY

    The Epstein Files Special: Peter Mandelson's Greatest Moments | Have I Got News For You
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,884
    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    Opening (or reopening) the office space required to eliminate WFH would increase overheads and reduce efficiency and productivity (through time lost to commuting and goodwill for internal overtime withdrawn).

    In addition, in 2026, most of us who work or manage staff who work would favour on person contact 2-4 day per week; but few would favour 5 without specific reasons. It’s harder to attract or retain good staff that way, and removes “nose to the grindstone, no interruptions” days at home.
    It varies from organisation to organisation and from sector to sector.

    PB abounds with middle class office workers for whom working from home is a possibility to varying extents.

    Its a lot different for those who work in agriculture, construction, education, health, hospitality, manufacturing, retail and various other sectors.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    Opening (or reopening) the office space required to eliminate WFH would increase overheads and reduce efficiency and productivity (through time lost to commuting and goodwill for internal overtime withdrawn).

    In addition, in 2026, most of us who work or manage staff who work would favour on person contact 2-4 day per week; but few would favour 5 without specific reasons. It’s harder to attract or retain good staff that way, and removes “nose to the grindstone, no interruptions” days at home.
    It varies from organisation to organisation and from sector to sector.

    PB abounds with middle class office workers for whom working from home is a possibility to varying extents.

    Its a lot different for those who work in agriculture, construction, education, health, hospitality, manufacturing, retail and various other sectors.
    Look, if a deep sea fisherman cannot figure out a way to join the future and be tech enabled work from home then that is his problem.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,243

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    It solves all sorts of other problems, including what to do with towns that have lost their old employer and aren't really connected enough to be commuter bases for productive cities. And ensuring that residential areas aren't just dormitories. And bringing trade into provincial High Streets. Etc. It's probably also healthier for our spirits- I'm pretty sure that humans aren't particularly evolved to spend a couple of hours a day in various sorts of metal box to get from where they live to where they work.

    But when push comes to shove, nostalgia for how things were in our youth is a heck of a drug and Douglas Adams's theory of technology and age is a shrewd observation.
    If Labour can actually get its act together, it really should be pretty simple to portray Reform as wanting to turn anyone of working age into a Japanese salaryman at an election.
    They might also talk about how Farage appointed a Russian agent in Wales, and is good pals with the prominent member of the Epstein class Steve Bannon.

    Some patriot.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,884
    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    If the pandemic proved anything, surely it is that people can do exactly the same job sitting behind a desk at home several (or all) days of the week, without spending an hour plus per day stuck in traffic cursing other drivers travelling to an office. Less needless car journeys as well
    Some people might. Many, many millions cannot.

    And some of those who might be able to do so will still have lower productivity working from home than they would do at their workplace.

    I couldn't work from home and even if I could I would likely have lower productivity.
    I know I do. More access to PB for a start.

    There are advantages to working from the office, including less qualitatitive social ones, and it hink people overdo the 'horrors' of being forced to work from an office as if those are universal - aided by pop culture making it seem that way, even as a lot of people in the creative arts have never worked in those environments, did so briefly, or perhaps just were not the sort of person for whom it works well.

    Hence the need for flexibility rather than imposition.
    I enjoy the social interaction a workplace brings.

    Though I can see how that could also be a negative for some people depending on the type of people they have to interact with.

    I also suspect the sense of purpose and achievement from work is greater when done at a workplace rather that at your own home.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    Traffic enforcement officers don't work from home and I don't think people generally thank them for their good service as a result.

    Obviously that's a joke, but the fundamental point as hinted by your post is that people want the service to be good - if they think it is, they won't care if the person providing it was wfh. If they think it isn't, they might care if the person was wfh, but whether that was a contributory factor would still depend on a case by case basis.
    Councils get 49% less money from central Government compared to 2010 - so everything has been cut.

    Bringing people back into the office isn't going to fix anything - because it doesn't fix the fundamental issue that 5-10 people can't do the job that 20 people did if those 20 people were answering phone calls and you still have the same number of people calling...

    So I suspect all Reform has done is cause staff to leave, and not fixed any of the issues because I suspect they didn't know what the background is behind the issues people are actually complaining about.
    It is interesting to see which ones know it is a bit more complicated but figure making it seem easy makes for good rhetoric - your standard political tactic, usually followed by more realistic goals and blaming lack of transformative success on the legacy of the previous decision-makers - vs those who genuinely believe it is as simple as online talk thinks it is, and are shocked and outraged when goals are reduced or tougher decisions taken.

    Those are the types who quit or go Independent.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,583
    If private companies want to allow employees to work from home, that is absolutely none of our business. Good for them. They can do what they like.

    Plenty work from home and deliver, stupid to say otherwise.

    Politicians should listen to the following.

    LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.


    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2020964668886356382?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,362
    edited February 9
    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Labour are just as bad, mandating 5-day working weeks for council workers. Obviously there are some jobs that require full-time attendance, with staff ready to fix stuff or deal with emergencies. But for everyone else, the sort of innovation that allows you to get the work done by 12pm on a Thursday should be actively encouraged, not dissuaded - particularly if you're worried about public sector productivity.

    In any case, councils simply do not have the budgets to pay decent salaries; the only way they could attract someone half-decent is flexibility and excellent working conditions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Labour are just as bad, mandating 5-day working weeks for council workers. Obviously there are some jobs that require full-time attendance, with staff ready to fix stuff or deal with emergencies. But for everyone else, the sort of innovation that allows you to get the work done by 12pm on a Thursday should be actively encouraged, not dissuaded - particularly if you're worried about public sector productivity.

    In any case, councils simply do not have the budgets to pay decent salaries; the only way they could attract someone half-decent is flexibility and excellent working conditions.
    Indeed, increased flexibility in other sectors in similar roles may well have undercut what was one of the previous main attractions.
  • Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I fully believe working from home is viable, but there are problems with your logic..

    If you are working at home, then you can't take the kids to school and pick them up from school, and be at home working during working hours.

    Getting paid to be at home is not the same as working from home.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 484
    What a rabble this mob are on news night
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,354
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    It solves all sorts of other problems, including what to do with towns that have lost their old employer and aren't really connected enough to be commuter bases for productive cities. And ensuring that residential areas aren't just dormitories. And bringing trade into provincial High Streets. Etc. It's probably also healthier for our spirits- I'm pretty sure that humans aren't particularly evolved to spend a couple of hours a day in various sorts of metal box to get from where they live to where they work.

    But when push comes to shove, nostalgia for how things were in our youth is a heck of a drug and Douglas Adams's theory of technology and age is a shrewd observation.
    If Labour can actually get its act together, it really should be pretty simple to portray Reform as wanting to turn anyone of working age into a Japanese salaryman at an election.
    I can also see tremendous success in the civil service and local government when Reform tells them they are all crap, way too overpaid, and most of them don't need to be there.

    Believe that there's much to fat to trim, sure, but I suspect the first out the door would be the more worthwhile ones, so a slimming down would need pare down to the cream fo the crop.
    Reform's approach to the civil service and local government employees reminds me of the flogging captains in the Navy/Army as portrayed in the books of O'Brien and Cornwell. It sounds superficially impressive as a means of instilling discipline to a simple mind, and the military surely needs to be disciplined, but the end result was disastrous in terms of morale and discipline, provoking mutiny and desertion. The better military leaders enforced discipline, but in a less cack-handed way that didn't alienate soldiers or sailors.

    The best employees in any large organisation will feel a degree of frustration at the inertia and inefficiencies that any sizable organisation accretes, and any leadership looking to improve an organisation needs to get those people on side and working to the same end.

    But Reform are only interested in grandstanding, of course.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,884

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    If the pandemic proved anything, surely it is that people can do exactly the same job sitting behind a desk at home several (or all) days of the week, without spending an hour plus per day stuck in traffic cursing other drivers travelling to an office. Less needless car journeys as well
    Some people might. Many, many millions cannot.

    And some of those who might be able to do so will still have lower productivity working from home than they would do at their workplace.

    I couldn't work from home and even if I could I would likely have lower productivity.
    I know I do. More access to PB for a start.

    There are advantages to working from the office, including less qualitatitive social ones, and it hink people overdo the 'horrors' of being forced to work from an office as if those are universal - aided by pop culture making it seem that way, even as a lot of people in the creative arts have never worked in those environments, did so briefly, or perhaps just were not the sort of person for whom it works well.

    Hence the need for flexibility rather than imposition.
    I enjoy the social interaction a workplace brings.

    Though I can see how that could also be a negative for some people depending on the type of people they have to interact with.

    I also suspect the sense of purpose and achievement from work is greater when done at a workplace rather that at your own home.
    Two days a week in the office to chat. Three at home to get some work done.
    Two days in the office to chat in person. Three at home to chat on PB ?

    :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    DoctorG said:

    What a rabble this mob are on news night

    You might need to be more specific.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,458
    https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2020990246884958689

    After Anas Sarwar's intervention, sources say an emergency meeting of the Scottish PLP has been called for 3pm tomorrow to discuss how to respond publicly.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 484
    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    What a rabble this mob are on news night

    You might need to be more specific.
    One of them was called Phil Collins, but he didn't have a microphone or a drum kit
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,354

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    I don't understand the angst about wfh. If it works for your business, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
    And if it doesn't work for the public sector the users have to put up with it.

    The people who are aggravated by wfh are those who are receiving crap service from organisations which allow wfh.

    To be fair the crap service might not be connected to the wfh but it still gives the impression that the employees are regarded as more important than the users.
    The issue is down to quality of management and leadership. Whether wfh or not is neither here nor there. If the management creates a poor work culture then productivity will suffer. It's not like this was never a problem before wfh was an option.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 26,009
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    I have had lunch with Wes Streeting when he was still quite a junior MP. I rather liked him.

    He's certainly right that culture change rather than another procedure is needed. But far too many politicians have been complicit in the loss of moral seriousness. Are they the right ones to start making the necessary changes?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,498
    The objection to WFH is proof no. 65438769 that boomers are shitebags.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,243
    Despite promising unredacted access, the DOJ is still showing redacted Epstein documents to members of Congress.

    Rep. Jamie Raskin says the DOJ’s “reading room” has just FOUR computers — and staff estimates it would take SEVEN YEARS to review the files under current conditions.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2020983415550497227
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,243
    Many reports of executions still being carried out in Iran.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    I have had lunch with Wes Streeting when he was still quite a junior MP. I rather liked him.

    He's certainly right that culture change rather than another procedure is needed. But far too many politicians have been complicit in the loss of moral seriousness. Are they the right ones to start making the necessary changes?
    Who else but politicians is there to dos o? Seems like best hope is finding and selecting those who have learned from moral mistakes, given the improbability of a mass election of those without any complicity, depressing as that thought may be.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 484

    The objection to WFH is proof no. 65438769 that boomers are shitebags.

    I take on board the comments from folk saying it depends on the circumstance, what trade you are in, location, etc - a market analyst could obviously work from home easier than a plumber or gardener, who couldn't

    But if the drive to end work from home is coming from retired boomer types who have less money worries than youngsters its not something I can sympathise with
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,458
    https://x.com/ZackPolanski/status/2020966727027470675

    I wrote to Streeting asking him to disclose contacts with Mandelson about Palantir.

    Palantir has an NHS contract, and access to *our personal health data*. Here are old friends casually texting about off the books corporate lobbying with their corporate tech friends.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,243
    Steady on. Let's not be rash.

    Starmer should really go for it now.

    Reform the House of Lords
    Ban foreign ownership of our media
    Referendum on the Monarchy
    Rejoin the EU
    An extra 80% tax on anyone called Nigel

    Give the usual suspects something to really greet about...

    https://x.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/2020963040464863342
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080
    Nigelb said:

    Steady on. Let's not be rash.

    Starmer should really go for it now.

    Reform the House of Lords
    Ban foreign ownership of our media
    Referendum on the Monarchy
    Rejoin the EU
    An extra 80% tax on anyone called Nigel

    Give the usual suspects something to really greet about...

    https://x.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/2020963040464863342

    Well, at least some of them would give a boost of popularity from current levels.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,003

    The objection to WFH is proof no. 65438769 that boomers are shitebags.

    Except in the real world I have found that overwhelmingly those objecting to and preventing WFH or hybrid working are middle management who don't like the perceived loss of control. And they tend to be in their 40s and 50s so Gen X rather than Boomers.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,271
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Steady on. Let's not be rash.

    Starmer should really go for it now.

    Reform the House of Lords
    Ban foreign ownership of our media
    Referendum on the Monarchy
    Rejoin the EU
    An extra 80% tax on anyone called Nigel

    Give the usual suspects something to really greet about...

    https://x.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/2020963040464863342

    Well, at least some of them would give a boost of popularity from current levels.
    Can foreign ownership be written to include non-doms?

    I think a ref on the monarchy would be a waste of money
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,080

    The objection to WFH is proof no. 65438769 that boomers are shitebags.

    Except in the real world I have found that overwhelmingly those objecting to and preventing WFH or hybrid working are middle management who don't like the perceived loss of control. And they tend to be in their 40s and 50s so Gen X rather than Boomers.
    I was once told by an HR person (not always the most reliable people on staffing matters in fairness) that the younger generations entering the workforce are not as insistent on WFH arrangements as many people assume, and they are sometimes used as an excuse by the more comfortable older employees as a reason why it is so necessary to resist a push to, say, 50/50 in office requirements.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,920
    edited February 9
    Yes, terrible day for Sarwar who has only strengthened Starmer, who has now had full declarations of loyalty from the Cabinet and apparently gave a barnstorming performance to Labour MPs tonight.

    Meanwhile Jackie Baillie may challenge for Sarwar's job if he leads Scottish Labour to a poor 3rd or even 4th in the May Holyrood elections
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,271
    DoctorG said:

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    What a rabble this mob are on news night

    You might need to be more specific.
    One of them was called Phil Collins, but he didn't have a microphone or a drum kit
    #MeToo issues for Helena Kennedy if she grabs Matt Vickers arm again...
    He was quite idealistic for a Tory MP, justice should be blind and money shouldn't make you safe from the law...
    He's going to be upset when he finds out what Conservative govt's did to legal aid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,661
    a
    DoctorG said:

    kle4 said:

    DoctorG said:

    What a rabble this mob are on news night

    You might need to be more specific.
    One of them was called Phil Collins, but he didn't have a microphone or a drum kit
    Can’t be any use on politics. IIRC he stated that he couldn’t dance. Telling the truth about personal limitations is anathema for those in public office.
  • The problem is as usual with the Tories everything they claim to hate they did.

    Reform have a far better argument in this area.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,860
    kle4 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Labour are just as bad, mandating 5-day working weeks for council workers. Obviously there are some jobs that require full-time attendance, with staff ready to fix stuff or deal with emergencies. But for everyone else, the sort of innovation that allows you to get the work done by 12pm on a Thursday should be actively encouraged, not dissuaded - particularly if you're worried about public sector productivity.

    In any case, councils simply do not have the budgets to pay decent salaries; the only way they could attract someone half-decent is flexibility and excellent working conditions.
    Indeed, increased flexibility in other sectors in similar roles may well have undercut what was one of the previous main attractions.
    I was chatting to a quite senior academic a while back about the productivity gains my team were getting with 'the AI' (off our own backs - to be clear). And I was fretting about how we got some sort of reward for it. He was totally on-board with 'spend a big chunk of your day just watching youtube - it's the only way to effectively increase your salary'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,920
    Nigelb said:

    Steady on. Let's not be rash.

    Starmer should really go for it now.

    Reform the House of Lords
    Ban foreign ownership of our media
    Referendum on the Monarchy
    Rejoin the EU
    An extra 80% tax on anyone called Nigel

    Give the usual suspects something to really greet about...

    https://x.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/2020963040464863342

    Well if he wants to hand the next election on a plate to Farage yes.

    Given he spent much of the 2015-2019 parliaments refusing to respect the result of the EU referendum why should a referendum he offers have any consequence anyway?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,553
    edited February 9
  • Inflation drops.

    Net immigration falls sharply again.

    If Starmer had any political skill he’d be able to make hay.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,553
    Nigelb said:

    Steady on. Let's not be rash.

    Starmer should really go for it now.

    Reform the House of Lords
    Ban foreign ownership of our media
    Referendum on the Monarchy
    Rejoin the EU
    An extra 80% tax on anyone called Nigel

    Give the usual suspects something to really greet about...

    https://x.com/gorbalsgoebbels/status/2020963040464863342

    That's...not a bad idea. I wouldn't go for "rejoin the EU" (we have to sort ourselves first) nor the Referendum on the Monarchy, but if you are going to go down, go down fighting yes?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,878
    Eabhal said:

    Cookie said:

    Farage seems to have taken aim at the 'working from home' class.

    A policy designed to unify the under 40s against him, whilst increasing unemployment and pissing off business in process. I thought Farage was the man who was supposed to listen to business rather than tell them what to do?
    A friend of mine and his wife both worked until recently for a Reform controlled council which is trying to end working from home. His wife has had to find another job - one of them.has to get the kids to school etc. The council in question is struggling massively with retention.

    If we, as a culture, think we need succesive generations we need to start behaving like it. We can't raise children AND have both parents out of the house all day, and we can't have one parent stay at home on current living costs. Working at home is the perfect answer to our demographic crisis.
    Labour are just as bad, mandating 5-day working weeks for council workers. Obviously there are some jobs that require full-time attendance, with staff ready to fix stuff or deal with emergencies. But for everyone else, the sort of innovation that allows you to get the work done by 12pm on a Thursday should be actively encouraged, not dissuaded - particularly if you're worried about public sector productivity.

    In any case, councils simply do not have the budgets to pay decent salaries; the only way they could attract someone half-decent is flexibility and excellent working conditions.
    It also massively increases the recruitment pool. I live in Yorkshire and work in London - one day a month. I'd not have taken the job if I had to go much more. Some former colleagues living locally took jobs at a London uni going in one day per week. That's recently changed to two per week and most are leaving.

    WFH works when orgs are set up for it. Ours is. I enjoy the in office days, but could also do it fully remote.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,458

    Inflation drops.

    Net immigration falls sharply again.

    If Starmer had any political skill he’d be able to make hay.

    Equine special pleading.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,271
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, terrible day for Sarwar who has only strengthened Starmer, who has now had full declarations of loyalty from the Cabinet and apparently gave a barnstorming performance to Labour MPs tonight.

    Meanwhile Jackie Baillie may challenge for Sarwar's job if he leads Scottish Labour to a poor 3rd or even 4th in the May Holyrood elections

    Surely there's very little chance that Sarwar will lead Labour to a humiliating defeat in May now?
    It'll be Jackie Baillie :)
  • isamisam Posts: 43,583
    “ ere hold up, where’s Victoria?”


  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,446
    Who did Sarwar think was going to go with him on this?

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,297
    edited 12:19AM

    Inflation drops.

    Net immigration falls sharply again.

    If Starmer had any political skill he’d be able to make hay.

    Unemployment isn't so good. So far not a big news story, but if it keeps rising...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,277
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, terrible day for Sarwar who has only strengthened Starmer, who has now had full declarations of loyalty from the Cabinet and apparently gave a barnstorming performance to Labour MPs tonight.

    Meanwhile Jackie Baillie may challenge for Sarwar's job if he leads Scottish Labour to a poor 3rd or even 4th in the May Holyrood elections

    How bad would the result in Gorton have to be for Starmer to consider his position?
  • Yokes said:

    Who did Sarwar think was going to go with him on this?

    That's the question, of course. Sarwar is not a bright bulb, even by the risible standards of Scottish politics, but he's not stupid enough to do this without a strong expectation of support from at least one other senior figure in Labour.

    Someone shafted him really good.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,553
    isam said:

    “ ere hold up, where’s Victoria?”


    Any excuse for the one, the only Bob Hoskins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ldZUQFr_9k
    Music by Francis Monkman, various remixes on YouTube, this is my favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=She3ZD94ELA
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,246
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yes, terrible day for Sarwar who has only strengthened Starmer, who has now had full declarations of loyalty from the Cabinet and apparently gave a barnstorming performance to Labour MPs tonight.

    Meanwhile Jackie Baillie may challenge for Sarwar's job if he leads Scottish Labour to a poor 3rd or even 4th in the May Holyrood elections

    How bad would the result in Gorton have to be for Starmer to consider his position?
    3rd looks nailed on to me.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,246

    Inflation drops.

    Net immigration falls sharply again.

    If Starmer had any political skill he’d be able to make hay.

    Inflation rose in last set of figures didnt it?.

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,178
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    I have had lunch with Wes Streeting when he was still quite a junior MP. I rather liked him.

    He's certainly right that culture change rather than another procedure is needed. But far too many politicians have been complicit in the loss of moral seriousness. Are they the right ones to start making the necessary changes?
    The issue I have with Streeting is that he is too much of an apparatchik. His politics is carefully curated rather than visceral and his hinterland away from politics seems strictly limited.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,854
    Cicero said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    GIN1138 said:

    https://x.com/RogueUnfiltered/status/2020952079775432915

    Oh dear Wes Streeting and Mandleson were sending kisses and encouraging messages to one another - which could be deemed as very “lovey” ….

    You can almost see Wez shrinking in his seat as he's confronted with that messages... Thinking, oh **** 😂
    "I did not have textual relations with that man, Mr Mandelson."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/09/peter-mandelson-wes-streeting-vetting-moral-seriousness

    image
    I thought that was a fake header not real !!
    I'd say that actually lowers his chances.

    It's so nakedly transparent.
    I think Streeting is rather like Mandelson (part of the reason that I don't like either). There is too much smarmy manipulation, coupled with a preening arrogance. Of course a politician needs some self belief, but no-one believes in themself more than Streeting.

    There's also the feeling that they are always looking over your shoulder, looking for someone more important to talk to. Be nice to people on your way up Wes as you will meet them again on your way down.
    I have had lunch with Wes Streeting when he was still quite a junior MP. I rather liked him.

    He's certainly right that culture change rather than another procedure is needed. But far too many politicians have been complicit in the loss of moral seriousness. Are they the right ones to start making the necessary changes?
    The issue I have with Streeting is that he is too much of an apparatchik. His politics is carefully curated rather than visceral and his hinterland away from politics seems strictly limited.
    Same as Starmer, what does he *actually* believe?
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