This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
Right Gordo, we need a back channel to you, so we need you to come up with a nom de guerre...thinks....I'll be Pond, John Pond....its can be anything yopu like Gordon....I want to be John Pond.
That's probably a typo, he meant James Pond, underwater agent.
Starmer on his way to the HOC to address it about his China trip
This will be all about Mandelson - China is irrelevant now to the public
China should be really relevant to the public.
Hi Kemi, if you’re reading this don’t bother with Mandy, he can stew for a couple of days more. You need to skewer the PM hard on what he didn’t achieve in China.
Was built by a foreign power - the British - shortly before it was forced to quit India in some ignominy. Would seem an odd inspiration for something celebrating 250 years of freedom *from* British colonialism.
Got to say I do rather like Schwerbelastungskörper - I encountered it on a walk back to my hotel and you look at it celebrating a victory over Denmark and go hang on. Celebrating what???
"It was built by Adolf Hitler's chief architect Albert Speer to determine the feasibility of constructing large buildings on the area's marshy, sandy ground. Erected between 1941 and 1942 it was meant to test the ground for a massive triumphal arch on a nearby plot.[1] The arch, in the style of the Nazi architectural movement, was to be about three times as large as the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, France."
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
why are you awake. these questions are all related - desp for CuAm but can only get to NY at a time when people feel G won't have some sort of breakdown....still working on it, therefore
--- On Wed, 28/10/09, Jeffrey Epstein leevacationftmailecom> wrote: From: Jeffrey Epstein Subject: To: "PETER MANDELSON" Date: Wednesday, 28 October, 2009, 7:56 AM
new york? brown? cuban- american„ have you made any decisions
The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jec‘acationAgmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. EFTA_R1_01505829 EFTA02434268
This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
If the messages had been traditional letters instead of emails, what are the chances they would have been released in the way they have? Probably a lot less. A lot of people right now are probably regretting the move to electronic communications.
SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn has reported Peter Mandelson to the Met Police.
Flynn said: "There is no question that Lord Mandelson's actions were shameful and unethical - the only question is the extent to which his actions breached the ministerial code and the law"
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
It's certainly catastrophic for the authority of the Brown government.
This one? We'll have to see, but I'm not so sanguine about my Starmer lasting the year bets now...
This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
That is of course wishful thinking.
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
It's certainly catastrophic for the authority of the Brown government.
This one? We'll have to see, but I'm not so sanguine about my Starmer lasting the year bets now...
I've long said Starmer will retire for health reasons but there's also the locals, Mandygate, and don't forget the mysterious arsonists the alt-right were so worked up about and who are due at the Bailey in April.
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
That is of course wishful thinking.
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
I think time will tell on the Starmer side. There were lots of questions raised last year about the vetting, and while the whole episode was deeply embarrassing for him and the government, he managed to brush off most of the serious stuff (I thought at the time it would cause him greater problems).
What it absolutely is, is mortifyingly embarrassing for the New Labour family and the reputation of the Brown government (hence why Brown himself has quickly come out of the blocks today, it very clearly raises serious questions about the behaviour of a member of his cabinet). By extension that will impact on the current government, as there are some of the same figures behind the scenes (and Mandelson himself briefly of course) but it remains to be seen quite how badly.
This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
I am not sure how this news clears Epstein and implicates Brown in the alleged criminal insider trading scam.
It appears to show that Mandy was forwarding emails on government matters, from the PM, to his pal Epstein.
That sounds like the Official Secrets Act has entered the chat.
Only a small subset of emails on government matters would be covered by the Official Secrets Act, wouldn't they?
An email discussing the details of government thinking on quantitive easing and the funding of government debt, between the Cabinet Sec. and the PM? That would be about as sensitive as it gets - short of the exact design of nuclear weapons or some such.
The Germans surrendered at Stalingrad exactly 83 years ago.
For those that don't know - the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerbelastungskörper we were discussing above was a test for the foundations of the arch above. Post war, it showed that arch wouldn't have worked - without stupendous foundations to take the load.
Starmer is rather an unfortunate general. The polls just start looking a little bit better for Labour, maybe hold on at the by-election, not had a scandal for a couple of months, booom.
This August 2009 email exchange which was forwarded to Epstein included Mandelson, the PM's PPS Jeremy Heywood, the minister/adviser Shriti Vadera and... John Pond.
Two sources have told the BBC that John Pond was in fact Gordon Brown, then the PM
I am not sure how this news clears Epstein and implicates Brown in the alleged criminal insider trading scam.
It appears to show that Mandy was forwarding emails on government matters, from the PM, to his pal Epstein.
That sounds like the Official Secrets Act has entered the chat.
Only a small subset of emails on government matters would be covered by the Official Secrets Act, wouldn't they?
An email discussing the details of government thinking on quantitive easing and the funding of government debt, between the Cabinet Sec. and the PM? That would be about as sensitive as it gets - short of the exact design of nuclear weapons or some such.
It has to fall into one of these categories, I believe:
Security and intelligence Defence International Relations Information which might lead to the commission of crime Foreign confidences The special investigation powers under the Interception of Communications Act 1985 and the Security Services Act 1989
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
That is of course wishful thinking.
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
I think time will tell on the Starmer side. There were lots of questions raised last year about the vetting, and while the whole episode was deeply embarrassing for him and the government, he managed to brush off most of the serious stuff (I thought at the time it would cause him greater problems).
What it absolutely is, is mortifyingly embarrassing for the New Labour family and the reputation of the Brown government (hence why Brown himself has quickly come out of the blocks today, it very clearly raises serious questions about the behaviour of a member of his cabinet). By extension that will impact on the current government, as there are some of the same figures behind the scenes (and Mandelson himself briefly of course) but it remains to be seen quite how badly.
Has "The Rest is Politics" covered this? Be interested to hear big Al's take on it.
Were he and Lord M mates or rivals in the Blair/Brown years?
Starmer is rather an unfortunate general. The polls just start looking a little bit better for Labour, maybe hold on at the by-election, not had a scandal for a couple of months, booom.
He had a hand in propagating this one. Many of the previous have been confected. By if he falls it will be to an extent by his own hand.
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
That is of course wishful thinking.
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
I think time will tell on the Starmer side. There were lots of questions raised last year about the vetting, and while the whole episode was deeply embarrassing for him and the government, he managed to brush off most of the serious stuff (I thought at the time it would cause him greater problems).
What it absolutely is, is mortifyingly embarrassing for the New Labour family and the reputation of the Brown government (hence why Brown himself has quickly come out of the blocks today, it very clearly raises serious questions about the behaviour of a member of his cabinet). By extension that will impact on the current government, as there are some of the same figures behind the scenes (and Mandelson himself briefly of course) but it remains to be seen quite how badly.
Has "The Rest is Politics" covered this? Be interested to hear big Al's take on it.
Were he and Lord M mates or rivals in the Blair/Brown years?
I presume we will find that Bad Al has a very busy schedule this week and can't do the pod.
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
That is of course wishful thinking.
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
I think time will tell on the Starmer side. There were lots of questions raised last year about the vetting, and while the whole episode was deeply embarrassing for him and the government, he managed to brush off most of the serious stuff (I thought at the time it would cause him greater problems).
What it absolutely is, is mortifyingly embarrassing for the New Labour family and the reputation of the Brown government (hence why Brown himself has quickly come out of the blocks today, it very clearly raises serious questions about the behaviour of a member of his cabinet). By extension that will impact on the current government, as there are some of the same figures behind the scenes (and Mandelson himself briefly of course) but it remains to be seen quite how badly.
Has "The Rest is Politics" covered this? Be interested to hear big Al's take on it.
Were he and Lord M mates or rivals in the Blair/Brown years?
I’m sure numerous ‘emergency’ Podcasts are being fired up right now.
The Epstein files are going to (finally) bring down some people.
How many of them might elect to try and take down others along the way?
You'd think some of them might break ranks, Scott, but I'm pessimistic, partly as a result of following the Post Office scandal where all but a couple of witnesses toed the Party line...so far, at least.
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
Starmer is rather an unfortunate general. The polls just start looking a little bit better for Labour, maybe hold on at the by-election, not had a scandal for a couple of months, booom.
I'm not so sure.
He lied his way into the Labour leadership, remember, by promising the members what they wanted to hear after his former friend in politics was trounced by Boris Johnson, then ditched all the promises he made in that campaign during the pandemic, when virtually nobody noticed.
He then won a massive landslide almost certainly not because of anything he said or did, but because the previous government spent more than two years messily self-destructing.
So he's undoubtedly had his fair share of lottery wins.
And I think things have changed for him, not particularly because of luck, but more because people have realised that he's a serial bungler and incompetent who has no vision or answers to the challenges the country faces.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
Let me get this right: Epstein causes Starmer (who until recently had never even heard of him) to be ejected from No 10 - while Epstein's long-time best bud remains securely in the White House. It really is an unequal relationship, UK and US.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
Let me get this right: Epstein causes Starmer (who until recently had never even heard of him) to be ejected from No 10 - while Epstein's long-time best bud remains securely in the White House. It really is an unequal relationship, UK and US.
Gosh, when you put it like that it’s hard not to feel for the real victims. SKS and Mandelson.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
They literally are....Meg Russell, professor of politics at University College London, and director of the university's constitution unit.
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
They literally are....Meg Russell, professor of politics at University College London, and director of the university's constitution unit.
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
🚨BREAKING - Gordon Brown says he has asked the Cabinet Secretary "to investigate the disclosure of confidential and market sensitive information" allegedly from Mandelson
Says he asked the cabinet office to investigate this in September and department found no record.
Is this Brown pushing Starmer under a bus? Wtf is going on.
My Black Wednesday comparison wasn't hyperbolic. This is catastrophic for the authority of the government and the Labour party as a whole.
It's certainly catastrophic for the authority of the Brown government.
This one? We'll have to see, but I'm not so sanguine about my Starmer lasting the year bets now...
I've long said Starmer will retire for health reasons but there's also the locals, Mandygate, and don't forget the mysterious arsonists the alt-right were so worked up about and who are due at the Bailey in April.
I'm not bothered about the locals (been expectation managed to buggery), arsonists, whatever. This is first time I've had a squeaky bum with it as there is definitely potential for this to get interesting - depends what comes out soon as it's fast moving.
Still, I wouldn't back him leaving this year at this price (which has barely moved incidentally, oddly), so I'm not getting out either.
Given its seems highly like Epstein was a foreign intelligence asset, Mandy has been leaking secrets to not only a paedo billionaire playboy, but somebody who was in league with foreign nations.
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
It's hard to disagree with this.
The UK government went to a lot of trouble to install Mandelson, who the US initially rejected.
To have installed a 'friend of Jeffrey', and one who appears to have leaked price sensitive information to him (albeit information the dissemination of which is not illegal), is extraordinary.
The only explanation that makes sense is this:
(1) Mandelson lied and (2) The US chose not to share information with the UK about Mandelson (either during the Biden administration or the Trump one)
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
They literally are....Meg Russell, professor of politics at University College London, and director of the university's constitution unit.
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
Given its seems highly like Epstein was a foreign intelligence asset, Mandy has been leaking secrets to not only a paedo billionaire playboy, but somebody who was in league with foreign nations.
The important questions are now if Mandy knew that's what was happening and, if so, if he was a willing asset or not...
Given its seems highly like Epstein was a foreign intelligence asset, Mandy has been leaking secrets to not only a paedo billionaire playboy, but somebody who was in league with foreign nations.
Epsten was certainly working with JP Morgan - Alistair Darling has confirmed that the bank made the suggested threats re bankers bonuses.
Which means that there is confirmation that third parties were acting on the information Mandy was leaking.
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
Let me get this right: Epstein causes Starmer (who until recently had never even heard of him) to be ejected from No 10 - while Epstein's long-time best bud remains securely in the White House. It really is an unequal relationship, UK and US.
Gosh, when you put it like that it’s hard not to feel for the real victims. SKS and Mandelson.
No No.
The real victim here is Alistair Campbell. Always remember that.
BBC's Faisal Islam. ..For a decade and a half, I have wondered about a private conversation I had with the late Alistair Darling, chancellor under Gordon Brown, about the financial crisis. Darling told me about a painful and angry telephone conversation he had with Jamie Dimon, chief executive of US banking giant JP Morgan, at the end of 2009 when the UK government announced plans to tax bankers' bonuses. Some of it had been reported at the time, such as a threat to pull plans for JP Morgan's massive new headquarters in the UK. But - to my utter astonishment - details of the background and the context to this call appear to be in the Epstein files released on Friday, and appear to have involved the unlikely combination of Peter Mandelson, Jeffrey Epstein and the suggestion of "mild threats" over the bonus tax..
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
You've seen the youtube short of Ian Hislop saying just this ?
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
It's hard to disagree with this.
The UK government went to a lot of trouble to install Mandelson, who the US initially rejected.
To have installed a 'friend of Jeffrey', and one who appears to have leaked price sensitive information to him (albeit information the dissemination of which is not illegal), is extraordinary.
The only explanation that makes sense is this:
(1) Mandelson lied and (2) The US chose not to share information with the UK about Mandelson (either during the Biden administration or the Trump one)
It might even be supposed that in an act of dumb 4D chess they (HMG) thought putting in a friend of Epstein as ambassador to the court of another friend of Epstein was a smart move. Worked out well.
I think that fox about Reform being Russia friendly has been neutered somewhat.
Why? If anything it makes scrutiny more important.
I consider this to be an incredibly serious breach of Government protocol. Whether Mandelson broke the Official Secrets Act may be doubtful, nonetheless he has driven a coach and horses through every Cabinet protocol. He has also more likely than not breached insider trading rules. The man is a disgrace.
I am not sure how it brings the wider party into disrepute, save for Starmer's non existent vetting of Mandelson. After all Reform have not lost a vote after Nathan Gill's conviction for taking cash from Putin chums, and Farage's almost identikit narrative in the EU Parliament.
A good principle of sending any email is that it will get back to the people you'd least like to see it, and thus should be phrased accordingly.
Earlier today we saw the damning email but couldn’t 100% confirm who it came from (albeit it was obvious).
The reply gave the game away and I think confirms the Official Secrets Act was broken
Alarmingly, broken by a Top Minister fifteen years ago, and we're only finding out now.
What other Bad Shit is happening without anyone noticing?
I suspect this type of abuse by the rich and powerful goes on now and always has done. The Epstein emails were uncovered because in the 2000's and 2010's the rich and powerful unguardedly emailed to each other, not realising the email server was capturing every communication. It was a point in time weakness. In the 1990's they would have phoned; post 2015 they would have Whatsapp'ed. And no-one would be any the wiser.
Consider the Reformation.
Consider the savage hatred of the existing church by a number of Protestants. And the accounts of what was going on in the monasteries in England - that were destroyed on the orders of Queen Mary. Add in the fact that a major reason for the Reformation was the extra-judicial privileges of the clergy. They were legally untouchable by the civil courts. Add in the modern scandals. Add in the fact that human nature has not changed.
Given its seems highly like Epstein was a foreign intelligence asset, Mandy has been leaking secrets to not only a paedo billionaire playboy, but somebody who was in league with foreign nations.
Epsten was certainly working with JP Morgan - Alistair Darling has confirmed that the bank made the suggested threats re bankers bonuses.
Which means that there is confirmation that third parties were acting on the information Mandy was leaking.
Lots of politicians have lucrative contracts with investment banks and funds, where they share information about likely government behaviour. (Kwasi Kwarteng -for example- was still employed by Odey while an MP, albeit I hope he gave it up when he took a Minesterial position.)
This isn't illegal, because the definition of 'inside information' is very tight, and only really covers information about such things as contracts for specific firms.
Bondegezou ringing for a taxi to take the cat to the vet for a dental problem now.
The cat has a small abcess. Antibiotics to treat. Hopefully won't need dental surgery, but we'll see how the antibiotics go.
In case you were wondering!
Goodish news? One of my cats had an abcess that managed to burst over the poor woman running the cattery that he was at while we were away. Quite a dramatic amount of pus, apparently.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
They literally are....Meg Russell, professor of politics at University College London, and director of the university's constitution unit.
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
Well, I'm not disagreeing with someone I used to be in the same department as (IIRC). She's talking about removing the title, while i was talking about kicking him out of the Lords.
A good principle of sending any email is that it will get back to the people you'd least like to see it, and thus should be phrased accordingly.
Earlier today we saw the damning email but couldn’t 100% confirm who it came from (albeit it was obvious).
The reply gave the game away and I think confirms the Official Secrets Act was broken
Alarmingly, broken by a Top Minister fifteen years ago, and we're only finding out now.
What other Bad Shit is happening without anyone noticing?
I suspect this type of abuse by the rich and powerful goes on now and always has done. The Epstein emails were uncovered because in the 2000's and 2010's the rich and powerful unguardedly emailed to each other, not realising the email server was capturing every communication. It was a point in time weakness. In the 1990's they would have phoned; post 2015 they would have Whatsapp'ed. And no-one would be any the wiser.
Consider the Reformation.
Consider the savage hatred of the existing church by a number of Protestants. And the accounts of what was going on in the monasteries in England - that were destroyed on the orders of Queen Mary. Add in the fact that a major reason for the Reformation was the extra-judicial privileges of the clergy. They were legally untouchable by the civil courts. Add in the modern scandals. Add in the fact that human nature has not changed.
What do you get?
Queen Mary destroyed the monasteries?????
I think the implication is that she destroyed the evidence gathered by Wolsey and Cromwell of all the terrible practices and behaviour in the Catholic monasteries. The abolition of the monasteries wasn't all about making money for Henry 8th (and incidentally creating some amazingly atmospheric ruins for 21st century visitors who like that kind of thing...)
I think that Labour are in really big trouble over this. They had a Cabinet member who allowed his paedophile ring running friend front run the UK market by giving him insider information about changes to tax before they were announced. Insider trading isn't a victimless crime, these people are stealing from other people including pension funds and individual investors.
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
It's hard to disagree with this.
The UK government went to a lot of trouble to install Mandelson, who the US initially rejected.
To have installed a 'friend of Jeffrey', and one who appears to have leaked price sensitive information to him (albeit information the dissemination of which is not illegal), is extraordinary.
The only explanation that makes sense is this:
(1) Mandelson lied and (2) The US chose not to share information with the UK about Mandelson (either during the Biden administration or the Trump one)
Anatomy of a very bad call:
Mandelson lied about the extent and duration of his links to Epstein.
Whether by choice or not the US didn't share all the info.
Due diligence was skimped due to the eagerness to appoint somebody thought better able to navigate the murky waters around Trump than a conventional career diplomat.
This line of "well i would get rid of Petie from the Lords, but its all terrible tricky, we are going to need a working group to explore reform of the rules of the lords", it rather reminds me of all the thousands of minutes banging on about how tricky it was to for Andrew to lose all his titles...then it was done in an afternoon. Or Musky AI allowing people to make dodgy pics, done in a day.
I don't think anyone is saying it's tricky, just that it's up to the House of Lords. The House of Lords is not known as a fast-moving organisation, but there's no mad rush required.
They literally are....Meg Russell, professor of politics at University College London, and director of the university's constitution unit.
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
A good principle of sending any email is that it will get back to the people you'd least like to see it, and thus should be phrased accordingly.
Earlier today we saw the damning email but couldn’t 100% confirm who it came from (albeit it was obvious).
The reply gave the game away and I think confirms the Official Secrets Act was broken
Alarmingly, broken by a Top Minister fifteen years ago, and we're only finding out now.
What other Bad Shit is happening without anyone noticing?
I suspect this type of abuse by the rich and powerful goes on now and always has done. The Epstein emails were uncovered because in the 2000's and 2010's the rich and powerful unguardedly emailed to each other, not realising the email server was capturing every communication. It was a point in time weakness. In the 1990's they would have phoned; post 2015 they would have Whatsapp'ed. And no-one would be any the wiser.
Consider the Reformation.
Consider the savage hatred of the existing church by a number of Protestants. And the accounts of what was going on in the monasteries in England - that were destroyed on the orders of Queen Mary. Add in the fact that a major reason for the Reformation was the extra-judicial privileges of the clergy. They were legally untouchable by the civil courts. Add in the modern scandals. Add in the fact that human nature has not changed.
What do you get?
Queen Mary destroyed the monasteries?????
The accounts of what was going on, as found by Cromwell's Commissioners.
Comments
Hi Kemi, if you’re reading this don’t bother with Mandy, he can stew for a couple of days more. You need to skewer the PM hard on what he didn’t achieve in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerbelastungskörper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durham_Cathedral#/media/File:Durham_MMB_02_Cathedral.jpg
(https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet 11/EFTA02434268.pdf)
To: Jeffrey EpsteinUeevacation©gmaiLcomj
From: PETER MANDELSON
Sent Wed 10/28/2009 7:59:34 AM
Subject: Re:
why are you awake. these questions are all related - desp for CuAm but can only get to NY at a
time when people feel G won't have some sort of breakdown....still working on it, therefore
--- On Wed, 28/10/09, Jeffrey Epstein leevacationftmailecom> wrote:
From: Jeffrey Epstein
Subject:
To: "PETER MANDELSON"
Date: Wednesday, 28 October, 2009, 7:56 AM
new york? brown? cuban- american„ have you made any decisions
The information contained in this communication is
confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may
constitute inside information, and is intended only for
the use of the addressee. It is the property of
Jeffrey Epstein
Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by
return e-mail or by e-mail to jec‘acationAgmail.com, and
destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
including all attachments.
EFTA_R1_01505829
EFTA02434268
That sounds like the Official Secrets Act has entered the chat.
SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn has reported Peter Mandelson to the Met Police.
Flynn said: "There is no question that Lord Mandelson's actions were shameful and unethical - the only question is the extent to which his actions breached the ministerial code and the law"
This one? We'll have to see, but I'm not so sanguine about my Starmer lasting the year bets now...
The police have to be involved
Davey and now Flynn
Good on them
Without diminishing the severity of the alleged crimes I am not sure Brown and Darling are implicated in the wrongdoing and for that neither is Starmer.
You may be right that Starmer may have to go because of his due diligence failure, particularly the bit flagged by Brown from September although Johnson survived worse.
Maybe someone could find an equivalent
BrotherTonyWhat it absolutely is, is mortifyingly embarrassing for the New Labour family and the reputation of the Brown government (hence why Brown himself has quickly come out of the blocks today, it very clearly raises serious questions about the behaviour of a member of his cabinet). By extension that will impact on the current government, as there are some of the same figures behind the scenes (and Mandelson himself briefly of course) but it remains to be seen quite how badly.
https://x.com/BellaSankey/status/2018306098042695790
I am relieved that Peter Mandelson is no longer a member of the Labour Party.
He should no longer sit in the House of Lords.
He must fully cooperate with police investigations including into his own conduct.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87l5nq93wno
Security and intelligence
Defence
International Relations
Information which might lead to the commission of crime
Foreign confidences
The special investigation powers under the Interception of Communications Act 1985 and the Security Services Act 1989
It might do that.
Were he and Lord M mates or rivals in the Blair/Brown years?
How many of them might elect to try and take down others along the way?
This is probably one of the most serious scandals that the country has had in a while. If the FCA is made to investigate this and it proves that Epstien and linked vehicles profited from this insider information then I hope Mandelson goes to jail for a very long time and Starmer has to resign for resurrecting his career.
He lied his way into the Labour leadership, remember, by promising the members what they wanted to hear after his former friend in politics was trounced by Boris Johnson, then ditched all the promises he made in that campaign during the pandemic, when virtually nobody noticed.
He then won a massive landslide almost certainly not because of anything he said or did, but because the previous government spent more than two years messily self-destructing.
So he's undoubtedly had his fair share of lottery wins.
And I think things have changed for him, not particularly because of luck, but more because people have realised that he's a serial bungler and incompetent who has no vision or answers to the challenges the country faces.
https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/2018342957758234627
EXC: Nick Butler, the No 10 adviser who wrote the memo leaked by Mandelson to Epstein, says he will take advice on reporting it to the authorities
"I am disgusted by the breach of trust, presumably intended to give Epstein the chance to make money.”
Lord Mandelson emailed Jeffrey Epstein about persuading Gordon Brown to resign as prime minister.
“Finally got him to go today” Brown resigned the following day.
Also appears to refer to secret tunnels connecting No10 and Ministry of Defense
https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/2018345253133078813?s=20
@DanNeidle
Gabriel understates what happened here. We can tell from this version of the same email chain that Mandelson’s last email was sent 16:02:52 BST
Brown’s resignation was public 19:19 BST.
Implies Mandelson leaked price-sensitive information to a Wall Street insider.
https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/2018350835458085202?s=20
A third, which would also remove the title of Lord, is very rare and involves a new act of Parliament, she says.
"Removing the title is a much more difficult process as the title has been bestowed by the Crown," Russell says.
To take away a peerage, "you need legislation to do that", Russell says.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clynp40ekrdt
I think, as @bondegezou mentioned earlier, perhaps the unsaid concern is the precedent it sets.
Still, I wouldn't back him leaving this year at this price (which has barely moved incidentally, oddly), so I'm not getting out either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillaume_affair
(For the record: I like both Matt and Ramirez, different as they are. By the way, Ramirez has an interesting background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ramirez )
The UK government went to a lot of trouble to install Mandelson, who the US initially rejected.
To have installed a 'friend of Jeffrey', and one who appears to have leaked price sensitive information to him (albeit information the dissemination of which is not illegal), is extraordinary.
The only explanation that makes sense is this:
(1) Mandelson lied
and
(2) The US chose not to share information with the UK about Mandelson (either during the Biden administration or the Trump one)
Removing the title requires legislation.
Which means that there is confirmation that third parties were acting on the information Mandy was leaking.
The real victim here is Alistair Campbell. Always remember that.
..For a decade and a half, I have wondered about a private conversation I had with the late Alistair Darling, chancellor under Gordon Brown, about the financial crisis.
Darling told me about a painful and angry telephone conversation he had with Jamie Dimon, chief executive of US banking giant JP Morgan, at the end of 2009 when the UK government announced plans to tax bankers' bonuses.
Some of it had been reported at the time, such as a threat to pull plans for JP Morgan's massive new headquarters in the UK.
But - to my utter astonishment - details of the background and the context to this call appear to be in the Epstein files released on Friday, and appear to have involved the unlikely combination of Peter Mandelson, Jeffrey Epstein and the suggestion of "mild threats" over the bonus tax..
NEW THREAD
In case you were wondering!
Worked out well.
I consider this to be an incredibly serious breach of Government protocol. Whether Mandelson broke the Official Secrets Act may be doubtful, nonetheless he has driven a coach and horses through every Cabinet protocol. He has also more likely than not breached insider trading rules. The man is a disgrace.
I am not sure how it brings the wider party into disrepute, save for Starmer's non existent vetting of Mandelson. After all Reform have not lost a vote after Nathan Gill's conviction for taking cash from Putin chums, and Farage's almost identikit narrative in the EU Parliament.
Well, though it’s just unnamed FBI source, this would explain a lot.
Putin is always suspected to have hidden his assets offshore in the Caribbean (see Sandal fund)
And who would make the ideal wealth manager?
(Emails to Ehud Barak suggest Putin tried to contact Epstein)
https://x.com/peterjukes/status/2018347081400762402?s=20
This isn't illegal, because the definition of 'inside information' is very tight, and only really covers information about such things as contracts for specific firms.
Mandelson lied about the extent and duration of his links to Epstein.
Whether by choice or not the US didn't share all the info.
Due diligence was skimped due to the eagerness to appoint somebody thought better able to navigate the murky waters around Trump than a conventional career diplomat.