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Sir Keir Starmer has some really poor allies and advisers – politicalbetting.com

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  • Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070
    edited 7:17PM

    boulay said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    Anyone still think Trump is "really sharp" ?
    He is this close to annexing an entire chunk of an ally's territory thru menaces and nobody has the balls to stop him. Podcasts yes. Saying rude things, yes. Sending an aircraft carrier and the Parachute Regiment to Nuuk, no.

    So yes, he is really sharp. He is also a bad man.
    It’s not so much just him, it’s Vance and Miller whispering in his ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them tells Trump to start agitating Millei to sabre rattle about the Falklands in order to peel off the UK from supporting Greenland.
    The UK is not going to renounce its support for Danish or Greenlandic sovereignty. And the Europeans certainly won’t.

    Trump had picked a fight where there is no “compromise”.
    Possible compromise solution.

    Trump can have Greenland.

    But in exchange:

    1) He releases the Epstein files;

    2) Publicly shoots Vance, Miller and Noem;

    3) Flies to Nuuk, strips and walks naked down every street in the town.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,575

    Shashank Joshi
    @shashj

    There are still off-ramps if the US wants to take them. Joint monitoring of Chinese investment in Greenland. Beefed-up Arctic investment, incl more US arms. More US bases & troops. But no sign Trump is interested in this. Denmark won't sell & Greenlanders don't want to be bought. That will force Trump into an increasingly coercive approach, doing more & more damage to a Western alliance that he has already frayed very badly.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/2012588005861564654
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,315

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe Trump is right that Greenland is a security problem for the West as things are.

    No.
    Well, he’s right that Trump + Greenland poses a security problem for the West as things stand.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 109

    HYUFD said:

    Nigel Farage

    'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP
    Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'

    'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.

    After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.

    Now is the time to decide: do you want to go down with the failed politics of the past, or go forward with Reform UK – the party of hope, optimism and change?'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/17/reform-is-not-a-rescue-charity-for-every-panicky-tory-mp/

    Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.

    Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
    I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
    I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,415

    boulay said: "Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences."

    For now, in this area, the ICE confrontations, especially in Minnesota, are getting more attention.

    (For the record: Yesterday, my oldest nephew asked me if the Loser was really going to invade Greenland. I told him I thought the chances were less than 10 percent. But I suppose I should send a reminder to Vance that he has responsibilities under the 25th Amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution )

    I was speaking online to a friend in rural Minnesota earlier this week, says he is considering getting a gun for the first time in his life.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323
    edited 7:19PM
    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    Anyone still think Trump is "really sharp" ?
    He is this close to annexing an entire chunk of an ally's territory thru menaces and nobody has the balls to stop him. Podcasts yes. Saying rude things, yes. Sending an aircraft carrier and the Parachute Regiment to Nuuk, no.

    So yes, he is really sharp. He is also a bad man.
    It’s not so much just him, it’s Vance and Miller whispering in his ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them tells Trump to start agitating Millei to sabre rattle about the Falklands in order to peel off the UK from supporting Greenland.
    The UK is not going to renounce its support for Danish or Greenlandic sovereignty. And the Europeans certainly won’t.

    Trump had picked a fight where there is no “compromise”.
    I totally agree.

    We have to hold the line on this, I'm afraid. Even if it causes us economic pain.
    Reform is way too close to both Putin and Trump to not suffer a knock back if world affairs continue to deteriorate on their current track
    The Farage who can just about manage to criticise Trump's tariffs on us (not on anyone else BTW) and at the same time fail to mention opposition to the takeover by blackmail of an ally, Greenland, will find his party in trouble further to the trouble it is already in following accepting Jenrick and Zahawi into the fold.

    By the end of 2026 they will not be leading the polls. BTW, the 7 May deadline for other deadbeats to join Reform may be a sign of desperation rather than confidence. So far Kruger is the only politician anyone has heard of with a reasonable reputation to sign up. I think he will already be realising his miscalculation. I predict a dearth and drought of new well known and well respected names.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,967

    Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
    In a recent poll, 94% of Greenlanders didn’t want to join the US.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Bernd Lange, the chair of the European Parliament's trade committee, calls on the European Commission to "immediately" start proceedings on the Anti-Coercion Instrument in response to Trump's latest tariff threat.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975
    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    Anyone still think Trump is "really sharp" ?
    He is this close to annexing an entire chunk of an ally's territory thru menaces and nobody has the balls to stop him. Podcasts yes. Saying rude things, yes. Sending an aircraft carrier and the Parachute Regiment to Nuuk, no.

    So yes, he is really sharp. He is also a bad man.
    It’s not so much just him, it’s Vance and Miller whispering in his ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them tells Trump to start agitating Millei to sabre rattle about the Falklands in order to peel off the UK from supporting Greenland.
    The UK is not going to renounce its support for Danish or Greenlandic sovereignty. And the Europeans certainly won’t.

    Trump had picked a fight where there is no “compromise”.
    I totally agree.

    We have to hold the line on this, I'm afraid. Even if it causes us economic pain.
    Reform is way too close to both Putin and Trump to not suffer a knock back if world affairs continue to deteriorate on their current track
    The Farage who can just about manage to criticise Trump's tariffs on us (not on anyone else BTW) and at the same time fail to mention opposition to the takeover by blackmail of an ally, Greenland, will find his party in trouble further to the trouble it is already in following accepting Jenrick and Zahawi into the fold.

    By the end of 2026 they will not be leading the polls. BTW, the 7 May deadline for other deadbeats to join Reform may be a sign of desperation rather than confidence. So far Kruger is the only politician anyone has heard of with a reasonable reputation to sign up. I think he will already be realising his miscalculation. I predict a dearth and drought of new well known and well respected names.
    I think you might be over-optimistic on the timeline.
    But Zahawi did in some way feel like “peak Reform”.

    I felt similarly at Christmas 2021, when Lord Frost resigned from Boris’s cabinet. I was delighted, I knew Johnson was over, even though I could not predict the timeline.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,967


    Shashank Joshi
    @shashj

    There are still off-ramps if the US wants to take them. Joint monitoring of Chinese investment in Greenland. Beefed-up Arctic investment, incl more US arms. More US bases & troops. But no sign Trump is interested in this. Denmark won't sell & Greenlanders don't want to be bought. That will force Trump into an increasingly coercive approach, doing more & more damage to a Western alliance that he has already frayed very badly.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/2012588005861564654

    If it’s about Chinese investment, then a sane person would simply outbid them on every project.

    Telling people that you’ll give them a larger wheelbarrow of money and *not* steal their house sounds like a popular combination.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,058

    Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
    They could blow 100k on medical bills in their new American utopia so not exactly a great offer.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,209
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Universities are dead, part 893. Sorry @turbotubbs

    “BREAKING: Americans with four-year college degrees now account for a record 25.3% of U.S. unemployment.

    The percentage has doubled since 2008, leaving more than 1.9 million degree-holders age 25+ currently unemployed.

    This is the highest level since data collection began in 1992.”

    https://x.com/hedgeye/status/2012449564234563936?s=46

    Though given 35% of Americans have a degree now, they are still less likely to be unemployed than the US average, even with AI
    You're talking to a man who voted for Starmer and cheered Trump's win. If that doesn't tell you the value of his prognostications...
    Leon is often right.
    And often wrong.
    However, when he is prediction-making, he is interesting.

    I tend to agree with him on universities, although might quibble with his timeline.
    I quibble on timeline and extent. Pretty sure tough times are coming for some areas. We have inflated the university bubble, and to an extent we need to question career paths. Does nursing and policing need a degree route? Apprenticeship routes are probably better.

    But I do think Leon overstates the case, probably because he only experienced Uni as a slacker art student.
    No, it’s because I understand modern technology and it’s future and I can extrapolate that along with social trends

    I remember when you called me an utter fool for believing this. Now it’s “you’re overstating the case and blah blah blah”

    I’m right. The university sector is - sadly (I don’t like this) - headed for an almighty correction and a reduction by 60-80% in size
    You understand modern technology?

    Like What Three Words?

    Mind, you probably are our resident expert when it comes to sex robots.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,392
    edited 7:24PM
    Scott_xP said:

    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."

    "I intend to offer President Trump a third state visit and a holiday home in the Chagos Islands to discuss this issue".
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323
    Scott_xP said:

    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."

    For betting purposes, I don't think anyone should rule out the possibility that by the next general election the state of the world would be that a government consisting of Lab, Tory and LD MPs will seem sensible, restrained and obvious.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,123

    Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
    I’ve been to Greenland. Have you?

    I’m extremely skeptical of these polls. The Greenlanders, god bless them, are a tiny, extremely highly stressed society living in an almost unliveable if beautiful environment

    They have hideous rates of child abuse and alcohol abuse, and probably the highest suicide rates in the world. They quietly detest (as far as I could see) their submission to Denmark but, like France with its overseas territories, the metropole just about keeps them quiet with subsidies

    My hunch is that if Trump is clever (obviously a massive IF) and he can get a referendum, if he then offers loads of money plus social spending, he would easily win

    He might even dress it up as quasi independence like Puerto Rico

    However this is Trump, so he could totally blow it by landing marines who shoot all the sled-dogs
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,648
    Charles should phone Trump.
    "Camilla and I are disappointed in your action Mr President. Please reconsider"
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,270

    Scott_xP said:

    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."

    "I intend to offer President Trump a third state visit and a holiday home in the Chagos Islands to discuss this issue".
    Good news, Mr President; you've been invited to stay with a close relative of the King of England.

    Bad news, it's Andrew.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,389
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It’s the top story in the NYT.
    Yes I saw that however it’s all very low key. Maybe just the US print media is much more restrained unless it’s the NYT writing articles about how buggered the UK is - they’ve gone a bit quiet.
    US media has spent the best part of a decade normalising Trump.
    And they've become more, rather than less inclined to do that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,912
    European politicians are in general a complete shambles and entirely unprepared for the world they find themselves in. We have just recently the Italian Defence Minister saying again that Ukraine cannot win the war against Russia.

    It beggars belief that Europe is unable to provide sufficient assistance to Ukraine for them to prevail against Russia. And who engages in a war with an absolute belief that victory is impossible?

    Europeans have consistently talked themselves into a position of weakness in respect of Russia for the last four years and there's no reason to suspect any different with respect to Trump.

    We'll have talking points about finding an "offramp" for Trump very soon, I'm sure.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,209

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    Bring it up to date and call it Bonnie Blue Streak.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975
    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,486
    Scott_xP said:

    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."


    I am sure Farage and Jenrick will be more accommodating.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 840
    Nice to see a certain mischief maker back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070

    Scott_xP said:

    PM Keir Starmer responds to Trump: “Applying tariffs on allies for pursuing the collective security of NATO allies is completely wrong. We will of course be pursuing this directly with the US administration."

    "I intend to offer President Trump a third state visit and a holiday home in the Chagos Islands to discuss this issue".
    Good news, Mr President; you've been invited to stay with a close relative of the King of England.

    Bad news, it's Andrew.
    The pair can talk nonce sense about Epstein.
  • IanB2 said:


    Carl Bildt
    @carlbildt

    Now Trump 🇺🇸 puts an extra 10% tariff on imports from all countries that sent military officers and soldiers to 🇬🇱, threatening to later increase it to 25% and says this will remain until 🇩🇰🇬🇱 capitulate. This will in all probability collapse the 🇺🇸🇪🇺 trade agreement. The confrontation is starting to heat up. More to come.

    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/2012566854665941246

    Markets are a sell on Monday, then? So the mystery of last year, with both equities and safe havens like Gold both reaching record highs, might be about to resolve itself.
    US markets closed on Monday..
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,058

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    Bring it up to date and call it Bonnie Blue Streak.
    Weapons of Mass Infection.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070

    European politicians are in general a complete shambles and entirely unprepared for the world they find themselves in. We have just recently the Italian Defence Minister saying again that Ukraine cannot win the war against Russia.

    It beggars belief that Europe is unable to provide sufficient assistance to Ukraine for them to prevail against Russia. And who engages in a war with an absolute belief that victory is impossible?

    Europeans have consistently talked themselves into a position of weakness in respect of Russia for the last four years and there's no reason to suspect any different with respect to Trump.

    We'll have talking points about finding an "offramp" for Trump very soon, I'm sure.

    Well, I think we should have that talk.

    After all, we need to work out which cliff the ramp will lead him off.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070
    boulay said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    Bring it up to date and call it Bonnie Blue Streak.
    Weapons of Mass Infection.
    The targeting is at best a pox imate.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,745

    Leon said:

    Universities are dead, part 893. Sorry @turbotubbs

    “BREAKING: Americans with four-year college degrees now account for a record 25.3% of U.S. unemployment.

    The percentage has doubled since 2008, leaving more than 1.9 million degree-holders age 25+ currently unemployed.

    This is the highest level since data collection began in 1992.”

    https://x.com/hedgeye/status/2012449564234563936?s=46

    Its both a quantity and a quality issue.

    More people have degrees and those degrees are relatively less useful.

    The problem isn't so much with those with degrees being unemployed its with those with college debt being unemployed.
    There is another facet. It is not just debt. These are people who have played by the rules. They have worked hard in the way that society directed them, and they've been effectively stabbed in the back – here as well as in the United States.

    Another group that has had the same fate, more so in America, is low-level entrepreneurs who might have relied on frictionless foreign trade.

    As are the victims of DEI policies, although they will have been replaced by the beneficiaries who previously would have been the victims of in-group prejudice.

    Here it is young people faced with near-impossible housing costs.

    The common factor is not that people are screwed, it is that people who have played the game are being screwed because the rules have silently changed. Is it any wonder they turn to NOTA parties? We must be thankful they still have faith in democracy.

    At base, it is not fair.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323
    trukat said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigel Farage

    'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP
    Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'

    'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.

    After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.

    Now is the time to decide: do you want to go down with the failed politics of the past, or go forward with Reform UK – the party of hope, optimism and change?'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/17/reform-is-not-a-rescue-charity-for-every-panicky-tory-mp/

    Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.

    Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
    I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
    I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
    What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @NC_Renic

    2024: "I'm voting for Trump to lower the cost of eggs"

    2026: "your son died a hero in the Greenlandic liberation wars"
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,745
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It’s the top story in the NYT.
    Yes I saw that however it’s all very low key. Maybe just the US print media is much more restrained unless it’s the NYT writing articles about how buggered the UK is - they’ve gone a bit quiet.
    US media has spent the best part of a decade normalising Trump.
    And they've become more, rather than less inclined to do that.
    US Media are increasingly owned by squillionaires at least partly dependent on largesse from the US Government, DJTrump, prop.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,805
    "TDS" seems to have gone mainstream. I am proud to have caught it a long long time ago.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    Fresh from the Mercosur ceremony, Ursula von der Leyen replies to Trump's 10% tariff threat:

    "Tariffs would undermine transatlantic relations and risk a dangerous downward spiral. Europe will remain united, coordinated, and committed to upholding its sovereignty."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    Oh

    @OmarJimenez

    BREAKING: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz has mobilized the state National Guard to support the Minnesota State Patrol per state public affairs officer for the Minnesota National Guard. However, they “are not deployed to city streets at this time.”
  • glwglw Posts: 10,679

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202

    Omnium said:

    Trump is either impeached or Nato is over.

    What an unforced error.

    NATO is already over.

    Greenland should be part of the territory defended by NATO but Trump has said the US needs it because they won't bother to help defend it from the Russians or the Chinese while it's Danish.

    The idea that the US would defend Estonia from Russian attack is absurd.
    No, NATO could exist as a European-UK-Canadian Alliance with America as an associate member, if it becomes sensible under a future new US President.

    It would require much more investment, however.

    We can form our own defensive alliances if we choose to do so, and are willing to pay.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It’s the top story in the NYT.
    Yes I saw that however it’s all very low key. Maybe just the US print media is much more restrained unless it’s the NYT writing articles about how buggered the UK is - they’ve gone a bit quiet.
    US media has spent the best part of a decade normalising Trump.
    And they've become more, rather than less inclined to do that.
    US Media are increasingly owned by squillionaires at least partly dependent on largesse from the US Government, DJTrump, prop.
    CBS is the latest to become part of, essentially, a Trump broadcasting operation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,710
    Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2012596080848891980
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,058

    Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2012596080848891980

    Does Jim Banks want Ukraine to fall into the hands of one of the US biggest enemies?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,710

    Another marvellous day in London with JohnO.

    Once again I had my phone out on display and wore an expensive watch and still wasn’t mugged in central London.

    What am I doing wrong?

    Your watch is so bling that they think it is a fake.

    Obviously.
    Ah, you've seen my Breitling then, which according to my friends can be seen from the moon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,745
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Universities are dead, part 893. Sorry @turbotubbs

    “BREAKING: Americans with four-year college degrees now account for a record 25.3% of U.S. unemployment.

    The percentage has doubled since 2008, leaving more than 1.9 million degree-holders age 25+ currently unemployed.

    This is the highest level since data collection began in 1992.”

    https://x.com/hedgeye/status/2012449564234563936?s=46

    Its both a quantity and a quality issue.

    More people have degrees and those degrees are relatively less useful.

    The problem isn't so much with those with degrees being unemployed its with those with college debt being unemployed.
    Universities as we know them are totally doomed.

    And the doom will come surprisingly fast. 5-10 years. Maybe less

    I expect 5-20% to survive as posh finishing schools and networking centres. Like the better private schools
    Universities as we know them have always been posh finishing schools and networking centres. Why do you miss that when it is true even in your own case? They are not (with a few exceptions like medicine) trade schools. Take away those graduates who become secondary school teachers in their degree subjects and it is even more clear.

    There are not enough jobs about. That's it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,326

    European politicians are in general a complete shambles and entirely unprepared for the world they find themselves in. We have just recently the Italian Defence Minister saying again that Ukraine cannot win the war against Russia.

    It beggars belief that Europe is unable to provide sufficient assistance to Ukraine for them to prevail against Russia. And who engages in a war with an absolute belief that victory is impossible?

    Europeans have consistently talked themselves into a position of weakness in respect of Russia for the last four years and there's no reason to suspect any different with respect to Trump.

    We'll have talking points about finding an "offramp" for Trump very soon, I'm sure.

    I don’t comprehend that political timidity - which is stupidity.

    You learn at primary school, that standing up to bullies is the safest course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,710

    Those D&G trainers are over £500. It's £50 for the trainers and another £450 for the fact it's got D&G printed on it.

    Why? Why bother wasting money like that?

    Good news, Flannels have put these trainers back on sale, from £550 to £279.

    https://www.flannels.com/dolce-and-gabbana-mens-new-sorrento-mesh-synthetic-slip-on-sock-trainers-128429#colcode=12842918
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975
    edited 7:47PM
    boulay said:

    Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2012596080848891980

    Does Jim Banks want Ukraine to fall into the hands of one of the US biggest enemies?
    Jim Banks probably can’t locate Greenland or Ukraine on a map. His ability to track down the finest glory holes in Washington, however, is probably unrivalled, if he is like many of his Republican peers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,389
    .
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
    I’ve been to Greenland. Have you?

    I’m extremely skeptical of these polls. The Greenlanders, god bless them, are a tiny, extremely highly stressed society living in an almost unliveable if beautiful environment

    They have hideous rates of child abuse and alcohol abuse, and probably the highest suicide rates in the world. They quietly detest (as far as I could see) their submission to Denmark but, like France with its overseas territories, the metropole just about keeps them quiet with subsidies

    My hunch is that if Trump is clever (obviously a massive IF) and he can get a referendum, if he then offers loads of money plus social spending, he would easily win

    He might even dress it up as quasi independence like Puerto Rico

    However this is Trump, so he could totally blow it by landing marines who shoot all the sled-dogs
    So you're saying Trump pursuing a crazy policy opposed by a large majority of the US electorate is going to be ameliorated by gifting them better healthcare than that which he's working to take away from US citizens ?

    He's not even followed through on his $2000 "tariff bonus" cheque promise to US voters.
    Paying hundreds of thousands to Greenlanders is bound to go down great too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070

    boulay said:

    Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2012596080848891980

    Does Jim Banks want Ukraine to fall into the hands of one of the US biggest enemies?
    Jim Banks probably can’t locate Greenland or Ukraine on a map. His ability to track down the finest glory holes in Washington, however, is probably unrivalled, if he is like many of his Republican peers.
    Certainly the best brothels staffed by women with suspiciously Russian accents...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
    You don't live there.

    You don't know.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    Swedish PM

    We will not allow ourselves to be blackmailed. Only Denmark and Greenland decide on issues concerning Denmark and Greenland. I will always stand up for my country, and for our allied neighbors. This is an EU issue that concerns many more countries than those now being singled out. Sweden is now having intensive discussions with other EU countries, Norway and the UK for a joint response.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,912
    glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).

    I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).

    It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070
    Wu is massacring Kyren Wilson here.

    And beat John Higgins recently to win a ranking title...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,389
    glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    The most recent plan was buying F35As as an alternative nuclear delivery vehicle, so whatever thinking is going on isn't very smart.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    boulay said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    Anyone still think Trump is "really sharp" ?
    He is this close to annexing an entire chunk of an ally's territory thru menaces and nobody has the balls to stop him. Podcasts yes. Saying rude things, yes. Sending an aircraft carrier and the Parachute Regiment to Nuuk, no.

    So yes, he is really sharp. He is also a bad man.
    It’s not so much just him, it’s Vance and Miller whispering in his ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them tells Trump to start agitating Millei to sabre rattle about the Falklands in order to peel off the UK from supporting Greenland.
    The UK is not going to renounce its support for Danish or Greenlandic sovereignty. And the Europeans certainly won’t.

    Trump had picked a fight where there is no “compromise”.
    I totally agree.

    We have to hold the line on this, I'm afraid. Even if it causes us economic pain.
    Reform is way too close to both Putin and Trump to not suffer a knock back if world affairs continue to deteriorate on their current track
    The Farage who can just about manage to criticise Trump's tariffs on us (not on anyone else BTW) and at the same time fail to mention opposition to the takeover by blackmail of an ally, Greenland, will find his party in trouble further to the trouble it is already in following accepting Jenrick and Zahawi into the fold.

    By the end of 2026 they will not be leading the polls. BTW, the 7 May deadline for other deadbeats to join Reform may be a sign of desperation rather than confidence. So far Kruger is the only politician anyone has heard of with a reasonable reputation to sign up. I think he will already be realising his miscalculation. I predict a dearth and drought of new well known and well respected names.
    I think you might be over-optimistic on the timeline.
    But Zahawi did in some way feel like “peak Reform”.

    I felt similarly at Christmas 2021, when Lord Frost resigned from Boris’s cabinet. I was delighted, I knew Johnson was over, even though I could not predict the timeline.
    Zahawi was a red flag to me too.

    Someone who should actually have been a high-flyer and effective and morally balanced, but didn't and wasn't and isn't.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    As we speak, the European Union is defending Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity against Russia and Denmark's sovereignty and territorial integrity against the United States.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,058

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
    You don't live there.

    You don't know.
    I think he lives in New York.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202

    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.

    Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.

    You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,975

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
    You don't live there.

    You don't know.
    I do live there (here)!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070
    Scott_xP said:

    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    As we speak, the European Union is defending Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity against Russia and Denmark's sovereignty and territorial integrity against the United States.

    For the hat trick, we need to stop Winnie the Pooh chasing the Woozle, er, invading Taiwan.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,684

    If Leon would write a novel about a conscious virus - I’d buy it!

    I enjoyed Pluribus. It’s got poor user reviews, I must be of like mind with the shows creators and writers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,389
    ...Don't the tariffs on Denmark make buying Greenland off them more expensive ? 🤔
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @jorgeliboreiro.bsky.social‬

    The Netherlands "takes notes" of Trump's 10% tariff threat and defends its decision to join the military mission in Greenland.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,912
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I’ll make another, bolder prediction


    Trump will successfully buy Greenland. He will probably engineer a referendum and then offer every Greenlander €100,000 (or whatever) plus guaranteed lifetime social security à la Denmark

    It will win. Most Britons would happily become American for £100k

    Not a chance in hell. Nobody sane will ditch Europe to be part of a country run by Trump.
    I’ve been to Greenland. Have you?

    I’m extremely skeptical of these polls. The Greenlanders, god bless them, are a tiny, extremely highly stressed society living in an almost unliveable if beautiful environment

    They have hideous rates of child abuse and alcohol abuse, and probably the highest suicide rates in the world. They quietly detest (as far as I could see) their submission to Denmark but, like France with its overseas territories, the metropole just about keeps them quiet with subsidies

    My hunch is that if Trump is clever (obviously a massive IF) and he can get a referendum, if he then offers loads of money plus social spending, he would easily win

    He might even dress it up as quasi independence like Puerto Rico

    However this is Trump, so he could totally blow it by landing marines who shoot all the sled-dogs
    So you're saying Trump pursuing a crazy policy opposed by a large majority of the US electorate is going to be ameliorated by gifting them better healthcare than that which he's working to take away from US citizens ?

    He's not even followed through on his $2000 "tariff bonus" cheque promise to US voters.
    Paying hundreds of thousands to Greenlanders is bound to go down great too.
    Trump has just received a Nobel Peace Prize medal because he wanted one and he whined about not receiving one.

    He's recently had the US military capture the President of Venezuela because he didn't show Trump sufficient respect.

    He's notorious as a "businessman" for not paying his bills.

    None of this is the track record of a person who is likely to look at the option of being generous to 56,000 Greenlanders as a way of getting what he wants as anything other than a big L compared to coercing others to give him what he wants for free, or grabbing Greenland "by the pussy" so to speak.

    Leon's bold prediction is as risible as his idea that Russia was going to settle for a Korean-style armistice in Ukraine, or that Trump would pressure them into doing so by being "unpredictable".
  • glwglw Posts: 10,679

    glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).

    I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).

    It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
    There are something like 5 new longish range missiles the UK is currently working on, at least a couple ought to be suitable for nuclear weapons like the French ASMP-A.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,070

    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.

    Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.

    You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
    Not all of them. Jim Banks is on board. Surprising, for a Russian asset.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 822
    Can I suggest that we offer to send our brightest and best - Starmer's current Chief of Staff - to go to assist the current US administration?
  • trukattrukat Posts: 109
    algarkirk said:

    trukat said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigel Farage

    'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP
    Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'

    'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.

    After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.

    Now is the time to decide: do you want to go down with the failed politics of the past, or go forward with Reform UK – the party of hope, optimism and change?'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/17/reform-is-not-a-rescue-charity-for-every-panicky-tory-mp/

    Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.

    Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
    I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
    I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
    What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.

    I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323
    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,679
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    The most recent plan was buying F35As as an alternative nuclear delivery vehicle, so whatever thinking is going on isn't very smart.
    Although the government deny it I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason for entering that programme is to get the RAF up to speed on operating nuclear weapons again.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,684
    edited 8:02PM

    Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2012596080848891980

    Meanwhile, in the real world, it’s Europe Trump is attempting to bully and oneupmanship over.

    The world is in a difficult place, it doesn’t help anyone when US voters install a child who enjoys playing juvenile games.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202

    Those D&G trainers are over £500. It's £50 for the trainers and another £450 for the fact it's got D&G printed on it.

    Why? Why bother wasting money like that?

    Good news, Flannels have put these trainers back on sale, from £550 to £279.

    https://www.flannels.com/dolce-and-gabbana-mens-new-sorrento-mesh-synthetic-slip-on-sock-trainers-128429#colcode=12842918
    I wouldn't be seen dead in them, but thanks.
  • boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
    You don't live there.

    You don't know.
    Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    I'm not sure I entirely agree with this Green policy but there's a much better case for the under 22s to get free (or very cheap) bus travel than there is pensioners.

    I may need a lie down

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpv709w9j1xo
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,805
    ydoethur said:

    Wu is massacring Kyren Wilson here.

    And beat John Higgins recently to win a ranking title...

    He's great. Yize the Geezer!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323
    trukat said:

    algarkirk said:

    trukat said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigel Farage

    'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP
    Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'

    'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.

    After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.

    Now is the time to decide: do you want to go down with the failed politics of the past, or go forward with Reform UK – the party of hope, optimism and change?'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/17/reform-is-not-a-rescue-charity-for-every-panicky-tory-mp/

    Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.

    Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
    I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
    I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
    What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.

    I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
    I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.

  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,720
    My sense is:

    - Trump's Greenland play does not have widespread support even amongst Republicans and conservatives otherwise aligned with the MAGA agenda.
    - Opposing it is seen as a political must across the vast majority of the political spectrum in Europe, including the. At least those in power right now, except marginalised Hungary.
    - We can afford to absorb tariffs for the sake of NATO's territorial integrity, just as we did the oil price shock to support Ukraine. The economic hit is a small price to pay, even if it ends up at 50% or more.

    Domestic political pressure may result in Trump finding an offramp (or TACO) down the line if we hold firm. Some new missiles based there or something.

    In contrast I can't see Europe caving to anything less than direct military action (which obviously results in other economic responses).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,347
    algarkirk said:

    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.

    There was a young man named Farage
    Who ended up stuck in his garage
    He campaigned so hard
    But let down his guard
    And fell to an electoral barrage
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,984

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Yes.
    We’re watching the one about Ed Gein on Netflix.

    It’s quite a cheery outing !!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,924
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe Trump is right that Greenland is a security problem for the West as things are.

    If the US wanted to build bases in Greenland, or station troops there, or build montoring stations there, they were always welcome to do so.

    And his claim that Russia or China would invade a NATO country if he doesn't do it first is just utterly baffling.

    The reality is that Trump wants to go down in history as a conqueror, and Greenland looks like the easiest thing in the world to conquer (and it's really big! especially on a regular map!)
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,984
    Pakistan TV broke a 232-year record by successfully defending the lowest total in first-class cricket to beat Sui Northern in the President's Trophy.

    Set a target of 40 runs to win, Sui Northern were bowled out for 37 at the National Stadium in Karachi.

    The previous record was held by Oldfield when they defended 41 against Marylebone Cricket Club to win by six runs in August 1794.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cx2p759mm30o
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,323

    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.

    Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.

    You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
    Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,912
    algarkirk said:

    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.

    I'd hope so, but I'm wary.

    Orban has remained popular in Hungary for a long time despite taking pro-Russian foreign policy positions. Now, sure, Britain is not Hungary, but it shows how a populist politician is able to shape debate.

    And Farage is a pretty gifted politician in terms of shaping public debate. I wouldn't count him out of being able to convince a sizeable minority of British public opinion to follow him on a pro-Putin and pro-Trump position.

    And with Britain's divided politics a sizeable minority can take you a long way these days.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,984
    algarkirk said:

    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.

    Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.

    You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
    Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
    TBH whatever Farage said it wouldn’t be enough for some people.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,843
    algarkirk said:

    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.

    Good evening

    Let's hope so

    Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population

    I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him

    He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,912

    boulay said:

    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.

    It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
    It’s #1.
    You don't live there.

    You don't know.
    Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
    All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,660
    @kiraincongress

    Tariffs against Greenland’s supporters before secondary sanctions on russia would be a stark signal of what U.S. policy truly stands for.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    I'd be amazed in the same way I was amazed the civil service and Government had a secret backup plan for Brexit in case the referendum was lost.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,984
    edited 8:15PM

    algarkirk said:

    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.

    Good evening

    Let's hope so

    Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population

    I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him

    He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
    I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.

    But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.

    It’s the hot and cold approach.

    Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 109
    algarkirk said:

    trukat said:

    algarkirk said:

    trukat said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigel Farage

    'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP
    Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'

    'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.

    After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.

    Now is the time to decide: do you want to go down with the failed politics of the past, or go forward with Reform UK – the party of hope, optimism and change?'
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/01/17/reform-is-not-a-rescue-charity-for-every-panicky-tory-mp/

    Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.

    Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
    I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
    I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
    What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.

    I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
    I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.

    hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    algarkirk said:

    The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.

    Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.

    You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
    Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
    I'm not a supporter of Reform.

    This is certainly something they could badly badly miscalculate.

    The British hate bullies.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,684
    Taz said:

    Pakistan TV broke a 232-year record by successfully defending the lowest total in first-class cricket to beat Sui Northern in the President's Trophy.

    Set a target of 40 runs to win, Sui Northern were bowled out for 37 at the National Stadium in Karachi.

    The previous record was held by Oldfield when they defended 41 against Marylebone Cricket Club to win by six runs in August 1794.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/articles/cx2p759mm30o

    Was it a raging Bunsen?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,984
    Scott_xP said:

    @kiraincongress

    Tariffs against Greenland’s supporters before secondary sanctions on russia would be a stark signal of what U.S. policy truly stands for.

    Tariffs against Greenland’s supporters in the same week he congratulated the Mullahs for not executing people who are mostly political prisoners while these Mullah fuckers are shooting protesters in the street.
  • glw said:

    We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.

    The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.

    I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
    We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).

    I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).

    It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
    I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.

    Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,202
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Yes.
    We’re watching the one about Ed Gein on Netflix.

    It’s quite a cheery outing !!
    Industry is essentially fucking and trading, but it was at least written by traders, and some of the characters are interesting, so I enjoy it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,472
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.

    Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.

    Good evening

    Let's hope so

    Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population

    I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him

    He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
    I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.

    But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.

    It’s the hot and cold approach.

    Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
    A carrot and stick approach can work, but in this case I'd suggest the use of military threats is undermining the negotiations from Rubio et al rather than helping. It will be making it harder for the Danes and Greenlanders to accept a 'generous' offer when they know people will see it has been done with a gun to their heads.
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