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Sir Keir Starmer has some really poor allies and advisers – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,314
    edited 5:10PM
    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    With immaculate timing isn’t the new series of Tehran out?
  • Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Yes. Ridiculous yet poignant, far fetched yet accurate. Also: Miresa Abela. I thought season 3 was the best, struggling a bit with season 4 so far, the dialogue is very dense and it might be Shakespeare or it might all be puffed up nothingness, not sure yet.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,207
    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Seaside Hotel. If you don't mind subtitles.
  • Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Yes. Ridiculous yet poignant, far fetched yet accurate. Also: Miresa Abela. I thought season 3 was the best, struggling a bit with season 4 so far, the dialogue is very dense and it might be Shakespeare or it might all be puffed up nothingness, not sure yet.
    *Marisa Abela.

    (if you know anyone worried about their dying libido, maybe recommend this programme to them as well)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    isam said:

    Those D&G trainers are over £500. It's £50 for the trainers and another £450 for the fact it's got D&G printed on it.

    Why? Why bother wasting money like that?

    I wouldn't wear them if someone gave me £500
    I'd wear them in preference to Nike right now.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,054
    Have you watched the new version of Amadeus yet? I haven’t had the chance but hoping it’s good.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,431

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    The Brexit game-plan not going optimally, then. All that stuff about cosying up to the US, as we depart from the clutches of the EU.

    So far as how the UK should react now, I'm really not too sure. Maybe not make a drama out of a crisis, and hope the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs? When are they ruling?

    And let's not forget the fate of Ukraine, either.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,700
    Scott_xP said:

    Kemi gets it right

    @KemiBadenoch

    A terrible idea. President Trump is completely wrong to announce tariffs on the UK over Greenland. People in both UK and US will face higher costs.

    These tariffs will be yet another burden for businesses across our country. The sovereignty of Greenland should only be decided by the people of Greenland.

    On this, I agree with Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2012572023067681168?s=20

    Kemi Badenoch is the best Tory leader since Dave (pbuh).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,829
    edited 5:15PM
    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,913
    edited 5:17PM
    I see that Sir Niige's best chum is threatening Britain with extra tariffs if it stops his onward march.

    We all know the sort of craven response Nige would provide, were he in Keir Starmer's place today.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,431
    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Did you ever watch Peaky Blinders? We avoided it for years but with nothing else to do, have very recently started watching series 1. Quite good - Sam Neill is pretty epic as the Ulsterman inspector.

    Mind, it does mean exposing yourself to several hours of Brummagem. So you do need coping strategies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,371
    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    Anyone still think Trump is "really sharp" ?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,431

    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168

    Glad to see that. Bringing out her inner-Thatcher. (And a useful dividing line with MAGA-loving Farage).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    @explaintrade.com‬

    There are going to be limits to what you can make other countries do by threatening to tax your own citizen's purchases of their products.

    I believe handing over entire territories falls well beyond those limits.

    🤷‍♂️

    https://bsky.app/profile/explaintrade.com/post/3mcn44cai6h2j
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,492
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Am fascinated how little attention the build up of military resources in the gulf is getting here and among wider society. Looks absolutely locked on to me that we’re about to see a regime change war. This time in 2003 there were millions on the streets and it utterly dominated public and private discourse for half a year before it started.

    I understand Trump is repositioning one of his aircraft carriers to the area

    That may be defensive, but it could also indicate plans to take on the Iranian regime
    There are also repositioning of air support vehicles in Europe, support activities for b2 operations from Diego Garcia, and special ops reportedly being relocated to Europe.

    Reza Pahlavi is still encouraging Iranians to the streets, and Trump’s red line has been very clearly crossed. He might be many things but what he himself is certain of, is that he is not Barack Obama.

    In the background, the analysts will be pitching this as now or never. They are desperate to clean up the global board as much as possible, in anticipation of a possible great power struggle with China in 2027.
    Nice European forward access bases you have there. Would be a shame if they were lost
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,387
    Call his bluff and offer to sell Greenland for 300 trillion dollars.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,492
    kle4 said:

    On the Blair appointment, trying to be fair here, given it has been a long time since he held public office, does he still have the skills or knowledge to be useful in such a role? He has what I'm told is a consequential think tank, if there is such a thing, and he was special envoy in and around the region a decade and more ago, is any of that genuinely helpful here or do they just need figures of general recognition who are the right sort of chaps?

    He has convening power
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    The Brexit game-plan not going optimally, then. All that stuff about cosying up to the US, as we depart from the clutches of the EU.

    So far as how the UK should react now, I'm really not too sure. Maybe not make a drama out of a crisis, and hope the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs? When are they ruling?

    And let's not forget the fate of Ukraine, either.
    I'm assuming Trump has done this in reaction to the military deployment so the correct response is to go ahead with that and send further troops to Greenland.

    No need to get distracted by a trade war, concentrate on calling his bluff and demonstrate we won't be intimidated.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,313

    I see that Sir Niige's best chum is threatening Britain with extra tariffs if it stops his onward march.

    We all know the sort of craven response Nige would provide, were he in Keir Starmer's place today.

    It seems to me this has betting implications, and it may be interesting to monitor Farage/Reform's response to the pro Greenland tariffs. I doubt whether Farage can shake off entirely his connection with Trumpism fast enough if the going gets hotter. And this could easily get the attention of his less thoughtful supporters. What price the World Cup facing disruption?

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Have you seen “The Lowdown”?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,405
    Trump is either impeached or Nato is over.

    What an unforced error.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    It’s sad that for all Britain’s careful calibration, Trump really doesn’t give a shit.

    I’m afraid it’s time for UK to impose 20% on US goods.
    And Keir needs to plan a trip to China.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,313
    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    We should not forget that Canada was also on Trump's list.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 545

    Call his bluff and offer to sell Greenland for 300 trillion dollars.

    Make it a bit easier for him - swap Greenland for the EU to have a controlling stake in Nvidia, Meta, etc .... and, of course, Tesla and X. Wouldn't cost the US taxpayer a penny.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,038
    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Imagine you'd like the debauchery.
    Possibly too woke in its casting for your taste.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,120

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Have you seen “The Lowdown”?
    No, it sounds bad. Good?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    Scott_xP said:

    @explaintrade.com‬

    There are going to be limits to what you can make other countries do by threatening to tax your own citizen's purchases of their products.

    I believe handing over entire territories falls well beyond those limits.

    🤷‍♂️

    https://bsky.app/profile/explaintrade.com/post/3mcn44cai6h2j

    That line has been shown to be false. Most companies have absorbed most, or even all, of the cost of the tariffs and not increased prices for US consumers. The exception is for imports of commodities.

    See, for example, the recent half-year report from Games Workshop.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,387

    It’s sad that for all Britain’s careful calibration, Trump really doesn’t give a shit.

    I’m afraid it’s time for UK to impose 20% on US goods.
    And Keir needs to plan a trip to China.

    Sad, but completely obvious.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,120

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Did you ever watch Peaky Blinders? We avoided it for years but with nothing else to do, have very recently started watching series 1. Quite good - Sam Neill is pretty epic as the Ulsterman inspector.

    Mind, it does mean exposing yourself to several hours of Brummagem. So you do need coping strategies.
    Yep, seen, great but declined fast
  • trukattrukat Posts: 103

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    The Brexit game-plan not going optimally, then. All that stuff about cosying up to the US, as we depart from the clutches of the EU.

    So far as how the UK should react now, I'm really not too sure. Maybe not make a drama out of a crisis, and hope the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs? When are they ruling?

    And let's not forget the fate of Ukraine, either.
    I'm assuming Trump has done this in reaction to the military deployment so the correct response is to go ahead with that and send further troops to Greenland.

    No need to get distracted by a trade war, concentrate on calling his bluff and demonstrate we won't be intimidated.
    I disagree. Forget more troops, reciprocate tariffs. Put more economic pressure on US citizens and make the mid-terms even worse for him.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,038

    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168

    Glad to see that. Bringing out her inner-Thatcher. (And a useful dividing line with MAGA-loving Farage).
    We may see a similar to Carney in Canada situation where being seen as Trump aligned is kryptonite. That could actually hurt Starmer if he isnt nimble.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    @EdwardJDavey

    Starmer’s US policy lies in tatters. Trump is now punishing the UK and NATO allies just for doing the right thing.

    Time for the PM to stand firm against the bully in the White House, and work with European and Commonwealth allies to make him back down from this reckless plan.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2012577157562728839?s=20
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,477

    US President Donald Trump has announced a new set of tariffs for a swathe of countries that export goods to the US, beginning on 1 February.

    Trump says these will remain in place until "such time as a Deal is reached for the Complete and Total purchase of Greenland" by the US.

    Writing on social media, Trump says countries including Denmark, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Finland will be "charged a 10% tariff" on "all and any" goods sent to the US.

    On 1 June, this will be increased to 25%, he writes on Truth Social.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1j8kw866p3t

    We are already on 10%.

    Is this on top?
    You think anyone actually knows?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    Omnium said:

    Trump is either impeached or Nato is over.

    What an unforced error.

    NATO is already over.

    Greenland should be part of the territory defended by NATO but Trump has said the US needs it because they won't bother to help defend it from the Russians or the Chinese while it's Danish.

    The idea that the US would defend Estonia from Russian attack is absurd.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,570
    rkrkrk said:

    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168

    Glad to see that. Bringing out her inner-Thatcher. (And a useful dividing line with MAGA-loving Farage).
    We may see a similar to Carney in Canada situation where being seen as Trump aligned is kryptonite. That could actually hurt Starmer if he isnt nimble.
    Yes, agreed. He could get some benefit from it if he's sufficiently strong.

    Badenoch is also a lucky general - for the second time this week. This isn't going to help Reform with casual voters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Have you seen “The Lowdown”?
    No, it sounds bad. Good?
    Wait, why does it sound bad?
    Good writing, good casting, mysterious, quirky and fun.
    And great soundtrack.

    One of the best things I saw in 25.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,120

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    With immaculate timing isn’t the new series of Tehran out?
    it is but there exuding it one episode per week? I like to binge. Indeed I need to binge. I like to watch one episode per night. Not PER WEEK

    So I am waiting for it to “end”

    The first two seasons were excellent. I wonder if TV drama is following pop music, it started and peaked in Anglo-America, but they have now run out of gas, and other nations and cultures are taking over

    K-pop and Squid game. Danish drama, etc
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,922

    Scott_xP said:

    @explaintrade.com‬

    There are going to be limits to what you can make other countries do by threatening to tax your own citizen's purchases of their products.

    I believe handing over entire territories falls well beyond those limits.

    🤷‍♂️

    https://bsky.app/profile/explaintrade.com/post/3mcn44cai6h2j

    That line has been shown to be false. Most companies have absorbed most, or even all, of the cost of the tariffs and not increased prices for US consumers. The exception is for imports of commodities.

    See, for example, the recent half-year report from Games Workshop.
    The biggest impact has been on US firms that export: the additional cost of steel and aluminium is hammering the exports of US cars to Canada relative to Chinese ones.

    Ironic, huh.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    DavidL said:

    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168

    It is small steps but the comment at the end "On this I agree with Keir Starmer" is telling. The UK political establishment is very slowly coming to terms with the fact that the US are no longer a reliable friend, indeed, under their present leadership, they are a bit of a menace. The long term implications of this are complicated and almost certainly expensive but we are getting there.
    Yes.
    I’m not even sure Farage is going to be “Trump fan” in 12 months time.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,405

    Omnium said:

    Trump is either impeached or Nato is over.

    What an unforced error.

    NATO is already over.

    Greenland should be part of the territory defended by NATO but Trump has said the US needs it because they won't bother to help defend it from the Russians or the Chinese while it's Danish.

    The idea that the US would defend Estonia from Russian attack is absurd.
    The tricky bit is whether Europe can successfully fight a war on two fronts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    Lib Dem former leader Tim Farron: “I wonder if Starmer, Badenoch and Farage *still* think it’s worth shamelessly appeasing this wombat?”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,120

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Have you seen “The Lowdown”?
    No, it sounds bad. Good?
    Wait, why does it sound bad?
    Good writing, good casting, mysterious, quirky and fun.
    And great soundtrack.

    One of the best things I saw in 25.
    Just the title! Sounds hackneyed and predictable

    But thankyou for the recommendation. I might give it a go tomorrow. Tonight I’ve decided on that Woke De Caprio movie
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889

    Call his bluff and offer to sell Greenland for 300 trillion dollars.

    Make it a bit easier for him - swap Greenland for the EU to have a controlling stake in Nvidia, Meta, etc .... and, of course, Tesla and X. Wouldn't cost the US taxpayer a penny.
    Well, of course not. He can just seize the shares in those companies owned by European pension funds to pay for it in part.

    Starting to be concerned that all of my pension that is invested in the US is in danger of becoming a stranded asset. No idea where the gold my pension supposedly owns is stored either.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,313
    DavidL said:

    Kemi Badenoch attacks Trumps tariffs saying they are a terrible idea

    https://x.com/i/status/2012572023067681168

    It is small steps but the comment at the end "On this I agree with Keir Starmer" is telling. The UK political establishment is very slowly coming to terms with the fact that the US are no longer a reliable friend, indeed, under their present leadership, they are a bit of a menace. The long term implications of this are complicated and almost certainly expensive but we are getting there.
    But where exactly are Reform going to stand? The politics of this is not for the faint hearted.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,371
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    With immaculate timing isn’t the new series of Tehran out?
    it is but there exuding it one episode per week? I like to binge. Indeed I need to binge. I like to watch one episode per night. Not PER WEEK

    So I am waiting for it to “end”

    The first two seasons were excellent. I wonder if TV drama is following pop music, it started and peaked in Anglo-America, but they have now run out of gas, and other nations and cultures are taking over

    K-pop and Squid game. Danish drama, etc
    Season 2 of Culinary Class Wars.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,356
    edited 5:37PM
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @explaintrade.com‬

    There are going to be limits to what you can make other countries do by threatening to tax your own citizen's purchases of their products.

    I believe handing over entire territories falls well beyond those limits.

    🤷‍♂️

    https://bsky.app/profile/explaintrade.com/post/3mcn44cai6h2j

    That line has been shown to be false. Most companies have absorbed most, or even all, of the cost of the tariffs and not increased prices for US consumers. The exception is for imports of commodities.

    See, for example, the recent half-year report from Games Workshop.
    The biggest impact has been on US firms that export: the additional cost of steel and aluminium is hammering the exports of US cars to Canada relative to Chinese ones.

    Ironic, huh.
    The deal that Carney did a couple of days ago with China will basically be the end of US exports of vehicles to Canada and lead to the loss of thousands of jobs in the US. Carney is redirecting his country's trade away from the US. We need to think hard about what we can do in the same respect. The US is our biggest single trading partner but that needs to change. I very much hope that the UK government is watching and learning from Carney.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    The blatant murder of Renee Good, and the smearing of her as a “terrorist” by Trump’s team, was the moment the U.S. basically collapsed into Latin American authoritarianism.

    Unfortunately, while Trump is trashing US prestige and influence in real time, he is not yet ignorable, and the stakes for Europe in Ukraine outweigh is petty, incontinent antics.

    I don’t know where to go from here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,371
    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Have you seen “The Lowdown”?
    No, it sounds bad. Good?
    Wait, why does it sound bad?
    Good writing, good casting, mysterious, quirky and fun.
    And great soundtrack.

    One of the best things I saw in 25.
    Just the title! Sounds hackneyed and predictable

    But thankyou for the recommendation. I might give it a go tomorrow. Tonight I’ve decided on that Woke De Caprio movie
    You’re in for a treat with One Battle After Another.
    I personally did not find it “woke”. It’s pleasingly violent and thrilling, and the message, such as it is, is humanist not “woke”.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    Nigelb said:

    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.

    The Supremes will issue another set of ruling on Tuesday. Might contain tariffs
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,170

    The blatant murder of Renee Good, and the smearing of her as a “terrorist” by Trump’s team, was the moment the U.S. basically collapsed into Latin American authoritarianism.

    Unfortunately, while Trump is trashing US prestige and influence in real time, he is not yet ignorable, and the stakes for Europe in Ukraine outweigh is petty, incontinent antics.

    I don’t know where to go from here.

    Regime change?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,360
    Broader context on Trump at the moment is he has flipped back to blaming Zelensky for the lack of a peace deal. It may be that this is a way to pressure the Europeans to stop supporting Ukraine so they have to accept whatever deal is on the table. Alternatively it is just a vanity project.

    Anyway people really do need to make more effort to start avoiding American brands or stop complaining.

  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 545

    Call his bluff and offer to sell Greenland for 300 trillion dollars.

    Make it a bit easier for him - swap Greenland for the EU to have a controlling stake in Nvidia, Meta, etc .... and, of course, Tesla and X. Wouldn't cost the US taxpayer a penny.
    Well, of course not. He can just seize the shares in those companies owned by European pension funds to pay for it in part.

    Starting to be concerned that all of my pension that is invested in the US is in danger of becoming a stranded asset. No idea where the gold my pension supposedly owns is stored either.
    (All good points!)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,554
    On Greenland, interesting snippet in the New Statesman. Apparently US has only two icebreaker ships. Rest of NATO and Nordics has dozens. US are setting up to build more in a joint project with Finland with first due end of 2028.

    Hit him hard: this deal with Finland is off. You are on your own orange face as far as icebreaking tech goes.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,649

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Starfleet Academy.

    Not season 3 Picard brilliant but engaging and episode 2 had one scene that made me squee.
    It’s shite. You know it’s shite but won’t admit it.

    Picard season 3 a beacon in the darkness, guiding us to how Star Trek should be handled. Academy is pure unadulterated shite. And you know it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,922

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,836

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    Trump has got himself into a position where he is now using tariffs or the threat of tariffs to both try and change the terms of trade in favour of the US AND at the same time use them to also try and achieve territorial gain. That is overstretch. The EU has up to now rolled over and accepted unfavourable terms of trade in terms of his limited tariffs, but that places the US in a vulnerable position because the EU now has less to lose by reneging on that deal to the detriment of the US. So by doubling down and adding Greenland into the tariff equation Trump is at risk of jeopardising what he has already gained if we move to a full scale trade war.

    So yes, it could be time to call his bluff and be prepared to enter into a trade war. The duration of that trade war need not last even a year because the November mid term elections are going to change the balance of power in Washington. Meanwhile I think that the EU and UK's best interests are served by stringing things out to play for time, while making it increasingly clear that they are are holding and prepared to use a big stick if negotiations fail.

    The main constraint on all this is whether Europe is prepared to step up to support Ukraine throughout 2026 should Trump then walk out on NATO. But as he's making himself into a less than reliable security partner anyway, to put it mildly, and already leaving it more and more to Europe to do the heavy lifting on Ukraine, already he's severely weakened his leverage.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,913
    edited 5:47PM
    algarkirk said:

    I see that Sir Niige's best chum is threatening Britain with extra tariffs if it stops his onward march.

    We all know the sort of craven response Nige would provide, were he in Keir Starmer's place today.

    It seems to me this has betting implications, and it may be interesting to monitor Farage/Reform's response to the pro Greenland tariffs. I doubt whether Farage can shake off entirely his connection with Trumpism fast enough if the going gets hotter. And this could easily get the attention of his less thoughtful supporters. What price the World Cup facing disruption?

    Agreed.

    I'll be very interested to see what useful response Reform might muster. Could be another lucky moment for Kemi Badenoch.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,313
    The BBC started the tariff story at 4.33pm. I have not noticed any Reform response yet, though Farage has tweeted only a few minutes ago about his annual Clacton business surgery. So far the rest seems to be silence.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,170
    trukat said:

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    The Brexit game-plan not going optimally, then. All that stuff about cosying up to the US, as we depart from the clutches of the EU.

    So far as how the UK should react now, I'm really not too sure. Maybe not make a drama out of a crisis, and hope the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs? When are they ruling?

    And let's not forget the fate of Ukraine, either.
    I'm assuming Trump has done this in reaction to the military deployment so the correct response is to go ahead with that and send further troops to Greenland.

    No need to get distracted by a trade war, concentrate on calling his bluff and demonstrate we won't be intimidated.
    I disagree. Forget more troops, reciprocate tariffs. Put more economic pressure on US citizens and make the mid-terms even worse for him.
    If we put tariffs in US goods the only losers will be UK companies and people.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889

    The blatant murder of Renee Good, and the smearing of her as a “terrorist” by Trump’s team, was the moment the U.S. basically collapsed into Latin American authoritarianism.

    Unfortunately, while Trump is trashing US prestige and influence in real time, he is not yet ignorable, and the stakes for Europe in Ukraine outweigh is petty, incontinent antics.

    I don’t know where to go from here.

    I think the important thing is to acknowledge that there are no good options from here. Trump has tipped us into a reality with only bad and worse options.

    We need to put together a plan to lessen our dependence on the US, which doesn't simply end up making us more reliant on a malign China. And meanwhile we have to play for the time we need to put that plan into action.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,554

    Carl Bildt
    @carlbildt

    Now Trump 🇺🇸 puts an extra 10% tariff on imports from all countries that sent military officers and soldiers to 🇬🇱, threatening to later increase it to 25% and says this will remain until 🇩🇰🇬🇱 capitulate. This will in all probability collapse the 🇺🇸🇪🇺 trade agreement. The confrontation is starting to heat up. More to come.

    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/2012566854665941246
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,023
    edited 5:52PM
    What we must not do, is place retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods. The only way to win a trade war is not to play. Let him tax his own citizens on their scotch. We don’t need to tax ours on iPhones.

    But what we and the EU can do, is cut a lot of political crap post Brexit and boost ease of trade with one another without worrying about the Brexit wars. A lot more mural recognition and good will.

    Medium to long term, NATO needs to massively invest in sovereign capabilities and walk away from our mad cousins. We must not lazily fall into the Chinese orbit.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,922

    Broader context on Trump at the moment is he has flipped back to blaming Zelensky for the lack of a peace deal. It may be that this is a way to pressure the Europeans to stop supporting Ukraine so they have to accept whatever deal is on the table. Alternatively it is just a vanity project.

    Anyway people really do need to make more effort to start avoiding American brands or stop complaining.

    Even if people do, this is all going swimmingly as far as Trump is concerned: he has successfully moved the conversation on from Epstein, and he is demonstrating his power by having everyone flapping around.

    The best strategy for the Europeans on Greenland is -as always- ignore the US. Don't fly to the US and negotiate, because there is no deal that can be done. Just ignore the US. If they tariff you, ignore it.

    Put troops on the ground in Greenland, but do not engage with the US administration. There is nothing to be gained from it. Just ignore them.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966

    Let's have the world just put a billion % tariff on everything American until Congress impeaches Trump. Let's all play hardball. Over to you, Congress.

    Meanwhile, a total travel ban on Americans outside the US, whilst we buy Chinese.

    Trump has got himself into a position where he is now using tariffs or the threat of tariffs to both try and change the terms of trade in favour of the US AND at the same time use them to also try and achieve territorial gain. That is overstretch. The EU has up to now rolled over and accepted unfavourable terms of trade in terms of his limited tariffs, but that places the US in a vulnerable position because the EU now has less to lose by reneging on that deal to the detriment of the US. So by doubling down and adding Greenland into the tariff equation Trump is at risk of jeopardising what he has already gained if we move to a full scale trade war.

    So yes, it could be time to call his bluff and be prepared to enter into a trade war. The duration of that trade war need not last even a year because the November mid term elections are going to change the balance of power in Washington. Meanwhile I think that the EU and UK's best interests are served by stringing things out to play for time, while making it increasingly clear that they are are holding and prepared to use a big stick if negotiations fail.

    The main constraint on all this is whether Europe is prepared to step up to support Ukraine throughout 2026 should Trump then walk out on NATO. But as he's making himself into a less than reliable security partner anyway, to put it mildly, and already leaving it more and more to Europe to do the heavy lifting on Ukraine, already he's severely weakened his leverage.
    It’s not clear whether the EU/UK have enough leverage of their own to cause actual economic pain to the U.S. economy (via inflation or whatever).

    But, yes, he is vulnerable as this is mid-term year.
    He is also vulnerable to any dirt European intelligence has in his clear entanglement with Jeffrey Epstein.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    Sure, bit we were talking about boycotting the World Cup, which was held in Russia in 2018, after they'd seized Crimea and parts of the Donbas.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,023
    Nigelb said:

    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.

    And for this level of bonkers nonsense, Congress might even do something.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,160
    We can’t continue as we are with America. Trump makes policy up on a whim and cannot be trusted. I do wonder if the Democrats will ever wake up
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,922
    biggles said:

    What we must not do, is place retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods. The only way to win a trade war is not to play. Let him tax his own citizens on their scotch. We don’t need to tax ours on iPhones.

    But what we and the EU can do, is the a lot of political crap post Brexit and boost ease of trade with one another without worrying about the Brexit wars. A lot more mural recognition and good will.

    Medium to long term, NATO needs to massively invest in sovereign capabilities and walk away from our mad cousins. We must not lazily fall into the Chinese orbit.

    Well, I think falling into the Chinese orbit would be foolish, ignoring the US while talking to China would probably be the best way to get Mr Trump's attention.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966

    We can’t continue as we are with America. Trump makes policy up on a whim and cannot be trusted. I do wonder if the Democrats will ever wake up

    They are largely supine and stupid. I would not hold your breath.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889

    The main constraint on all this is whether Europe is prepared to step up to support Ukraine throughout 2026 should Trump then walk out on NATO. But as he's making himself into a less than reliable security partner anyway, to put it mildly, and already leaving it more and more to Europe to do the heavy lifting on Ukraine, already he's severely weakened his leverage.

    I was surprised by some recent news that claimed Ukraine was now receiving more intel support from France than from the US. Losing access to various types of ammunition would be a loss, but the Ukrainian reliance on the US is continuing to shrink.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,780
    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    Are those people who watch Disney or Netflix willing to go without though.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,263
    Nigelb said:

    Anyone still think we had Trump Derangement Syndrome ?

    We are all at risk of suffering from Trump's Derangement Syndrome.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,966

    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    Are those people who watch Disney or Netflix willing to go without though.
    Just close them off.
    It would have a second-order effect of causing a recession in UK luvvie-land but some on here would welcome that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,889
    rcs1000 said:

    Broader context on Trump at the moment is he has flipped back to blaming Zelensky for the lack of a peace deal. It may be that this is a way to pressure the Europeans to stop supporting Ukraine so they have to accept whatever deal is on the table. Alternatively it is just a vanity project.

    Anyway people really do need to make more effort to start avoiding American brands or stop complaining.

    Even if people do, this is all going swimmingly as far as Trump is concerned: he has successfully moved the conversation on from Epstein, and he is demonstrating his power by having everyone flapping around.

    The best strategy for the Europeans on Greenland is -as always- ignore the US. Don't fly to the US and negotiate, because there is no deal that can be done. Just ignore the US. If they tariff you, ignore it.

    Put troops on the ground in Greenland, but do not engage with the US administration. There is nothing to be gained from it. Just ignore them.
    I don't know. The Chinese forced Trump to back down by ratcheting up tariffs. I think there's potential to choose a few products Europe could easily substitute for and tariff them to oblivion. Maybe target companies owned by known Trump supporters.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,780

    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    Are those people who watch Disney or Netflix willing to go without though.
    And how many politicians are willing to reduce welfare to fund strategic security ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,922

    The main constraint on all this is whether Europe is prepared to step up to support Ukraine throughout 2026 should Trump then walk out on NATO. But as he's making himself into a less than reliable security partner anyway, to put it mildly, and already leaving it more and more to Europe to do the heavy lifting on Ukraine, already he's severely weakened his leverage.

    I was surprised by some recent news that claimed Ukraine was now receiving more intel support from France than from the US. Losing access to various types of ammunition would be a loss, but the Ukrainian reliance on the US is continuing to shrink.
    This is an excellent point: three years ago, 90% of assistance to Ukraine came from the US in one way or another. It's now more like 30%.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,631
    @timmarchman.bsky.social‬

    “Let me get this straight: You’re worried about China and Russia seizing territory that’s covered by a legally binding mutual defense pact with multiple nuclear powers including your country, and so your plan is to illegally tax your own citizens.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/timmarchman.bsky.social/post/3mcn6xmqht223
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,957

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Did you ever watch Peaky Blinders? We avoided it for years but with nothing else to do, have very recently started watching series 1. Quite good - Sam Neill is pretty epic as the Ulsterman inspector.

    Mind, it does mean exposing yourself to several hours of Brummagem. So you do need coping strategies.
    Unwatchable due to the appalling efforts at Brum accents
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,023
    On the domestic side, what an opportunity for the Tories to go patriotic and stick the boot in to Farage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,957
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.

    And for this level of bonkers nonsense, Congress might even do something.
    What a happy coincidence the Supreme Court kicked back the ruling on tariffs last week
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,699
    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    If you’re Hungarian, then your last gas bill.

    But yes, we need to start considering taking a more, well, Canadian approach to Trump’s bullying. He’s notably quietened on Canada since they showed a bit of sass.

    Anyway in other exciting news, I have just tried one of those random hacks you get pushed at you on Instagram. And it works! It’s as transformational as that moment I realised you’re supposed to squash oxo cubes into a flat square then open and pour them out.

    Mayonnaise in 10 seconds:

    - crack an egg into a glass / jug / tin
    - Put in salt, mustard, anything else you want in your mayo (crushed garlic, paprika, saffron, tarragon, whatever)
    - fill the rest of the glass with oil
    - Put a hand blender in, right down to the bottom
    - Whisk, 2-3 seconds at the bottom then slowly raising up towards the top
    - Hey presto, an entire pot’s worth of mayonnaise
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,371
    rcs1000 said:

    Broader context on Trump at the moment is he has flipped back to blaming Zelensky for the lack of a peace deal. It may be that this is a way to pressure the Europeans to stop supporting Ukraine so they have to accept whatever deal is on the table. Alternatively it is just a vanity project.

    Anyway people really do need to make more effort to start avoiding American brands or stop complaining.

    Even if people do, this is all going swimmingly as far as Trump is concerned: he has successfully moved the conversation on from Epstein, and he is demonstrating his power by having everyone flapping around.

    The best strategy for the Europeans on Greenland is -as always- ignore the US. Don't fly to the US and negotiate, because there is no deal that can be done. Just ignore the US. If they tariff you, ignore it.

    Put troops on the ground in Greenland, but do not engage with the US administration. There is nothing to be gained from it. Just ignore them.
    I'd agree with that.

    Also bear in mind that both invading/strongarming Greenland, and tariffs in general are really unpopular with the US electorate.

    The Greenland idiocy particularly do.

    There's a non negligible chance of Congress waking up from its MAGA imposed torpor.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,263
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.

    The Supremes will issue another set of ruling on Tuesday. Might contain tariffs
    Alternatively, they might not. Because the Painted Pinochet will be very cross with them if they say he can't do what he wants.

    Better to delay, in which case The Supremes will say "You can't hurry, love."
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,431
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    In more important news, is “Industry” any good?

    I need a TV drama, out here in Bangers, and jeez the well is running dry

    Did you ever watch Peaky Blinders? We avoided it for years but with nothing else to do, have very recently started watching series 1. Quite good - Sam Neill is pretty epic as the Ulsterman inspector.

    Mind, it does mean exposing yourself to several hours of Brummagem. So you do need coping strategies.
    Unwatchable due to the appalling efforts at Brum accents
    As someone unkindly remarked: "a million people with a speech impediment".
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,699

    rcs1000 said:

    DoctorG said:

    Seriously though, who is going to be the first country to boycott the World cup?

    FIFA could end up inviting Solomon islands and Antigua and Barbuda if it gathers steam

    No-one boycotted Russia in 2018. I think the US would have to actually use military force to seize Greenland before an actual boycott of the World Cup in the US was possible.
    There is a little bit of a difference: what product did you last buy from a Russian firm?

    Boycotting Disney or Netflix is a hell of a lot easier.
    Are those people who watch Disney or Netflix willing to go without though.
    And how many politicians are willing to reduce welfare to fund strategic security ?
    False binary time, yet again.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,374
    We don’t always agree with the US government and in this case we certainly don’t. These tariffs will hurt us.

    If Greenland is vulnerable to malign influences, then have another look at Diego Garcia.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2012582405471625604?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • glwglw Posts: 10,675

    Scott_xP said:

    Kemi gets it right

    @KemiBadenoch

    A terrible idea. President Trump is completely wrong to announce tariffs on the UK over Greenland. People in both UK and US will face higher costs.

    These tariffs will be yet another burden for businesses across our country. The sovereignty of Greenland should only be decided by the people of Greenland.

    On this, I agree with Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2012572023067681168?s=20

    Kemi Badenoch is the best Tory leader since Dave (pbuh).
    I'm starting to warm to her. I hope all UK parties are on side, but we will have to wait and see what Reform have to say. Will Farage become another synonym for traitor like Quisling is?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,957
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    One point about these threatened tariffs is that they are wildly illegal under US law.
    More so than any of the other ones, IMO.

    The Court has already ruled against him on some tariffs. If this eventually gets in front of them they're likely to do the same again.

    The Supremes will issue another set of ruling on Tuesday. Might contain tariffs
    I’d read they’d kicked it back to summer. Glad I’m wrong
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,554
    Anthony Scaramucci
    @Scaramucci

    "Democracy doesn’t collapse with a bang. It erodes when courage quietly exits the room."


    https://x.com/Scaramucci/status/2012570705842577917
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,554
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Kemi gets it right

    @KemiBadenoch

    A terrible idea. President Trump is completely wrong to announce tariffs on the UK over Greenland. People in both UK and US will face higher costs.

    These tariffs will be yet another burden for businesses across our country. The sovereignty of Greenland should only be decided by the people of Greenland.

    On this, I agree with Keir Starmer.

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2012572023067681168?s=20

    Kemi Badenoch is the best Tory leader since Dave (pbuh).
    I'm starting to warm to her. I hope all UK parties are on side, but we will have to wait and see what Reform have to say. Will Farage become another synonym for traitor like Quisling is?
    Tories would be mad to get rid of her now. She's upped her game and imho has done pretty well recently in very stony ground. I'm not a Tory voter but I don't see any kind of obvious leadership replacement at the moment.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,054
    If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.

    Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
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