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La Belle Alliance didn’t last very long – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,030

    Nigelb said:

    At the link is a very good 4 minute demolition of Lammy's proposed no juries plans.

    This is utterly DAMNING for David Lammy.

    "We are not looking to convict people as quickly as possible, we are looking for justice."

    A Barrister clinically dismantles David Lammy's disgraceful decision to scrap jury trials.

    Watch until the end.
    It wont even fix the backlog.

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1995954389014774270

    I get the feeling this jury proposal is just a sacrificial lamb to distract people from ID cards and make them think they've got a 'win' if the jury stuff doesn't go through. Meanwhile ID cards (which is taking 1.6bn out of the Justice Department's budget) gets the heat taken off it.

    The incompetence of this Government is richly enjoyable, but their ugly authoritarian streak isn't a laughing matter.
    Getting rid of jury trials is a hardy annual. It keeps getting suggested. Like ID cards.

    Ministers flailing about - “Must do something”

    Get handed a thick folder - “Well minister, here’s a policy, all ready to go.”
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,309

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Ultimately there likely will be a folding together but it won't be until Farage departs the scene, and the brand will be Conservative. It's much easier to imagine Reform disappearing from the scene than the Tories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,030
    Nigelb said:

    Of possible interest to PBers...

    BP Abandons H2Teesside Carbon Capture & Hydrogen Scheme Amid AI Push

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bp-abandons-h2teesside-carbon-capture-192000443.html
    ...BP’s decision to abandon its “H2Teesside” project, announced in 2021, will instead allow for the construction of a large artificial intelligence data center at the site. This proposal involves building a data center spanning almost 500,000 square meters, intended to be the largest one in Europe, according to the Financial Times. This plan also has the backing of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology.

    The UK government introduced these “AI growth zones” within the AI Opportunities Action Plan in January. As part of the plan, the government offers specific geographic areas to push for the development of artificial intelligence infrastructure. The companies can benefit from this by receiving simplified planning approvals and preferential access to energy, as data centers require massive amounts of electricity.

    BP’s “H2Teesside” scheme was intended to produce blue hydrogen by extracting hydrogen from natural gas. The carbon dioxide produced in the process would have been captured and stored. BP’s decision to scrap this project was also influenced by weaker demand for low-carbon hydrogen. Initially, the company expected this project to produce 20% of the targeted production of hydrogen in the UK by 2030. However, the closure of a nearby site owned by the chemical giant Sabic, viewed as a potential customer, reduced the viability of the project. The demand for hydrogen produced this way has long faced challenges due to the high costs associated with its production. This marks a major setback for the UK government’s strategy to accelerate hydrogen production...

    So the horseshit proposal (make expensive hydrogen) has been replaced with… bullshit?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,767

    More evidence Badenoch is being noticed

    Small steps but encouraging for the conservatives

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1996142406056439948?s=19

    Hell of a move in a month!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,767
    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    An unimpressive result for the Dems in Tennessee.

    If that swing was replicated Nationwide, 42 Republicans would lose their seats
    If.
    Polling in TN-7 suggested the Dems were only 2% behind. So, either:

    a) polling failure or

    b) polling was correct causing the Republicans to go into high-cost panic mode.

    Claiming that the other side spent money is always a good sign of a disappointing result.
    A result which would give the Democrats a very handy working majority in the House? I reckon the Democrats will take that disappointment in their stride.

    More likely is it will give the Republicans a degre of complacency that in all the circumstances isn't warranted.
    Interesting disparity between the urban and rural votes, Dems won almost 80% of the district inc Nashville, GOP 80% in small rural districts.
    I don't think that is unusual. What is interesting is that despite wrecking agriculture on an epic scale, the rural voters are still with Trump/MAGA. If you want to look for a metric to change, I would be picking that one.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985

    More evidence Badenoch is being noticed

    Small steps but encouraging for the conservatives

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1996142406056439948?s=19

    Noticeably they seem to have finally realised focusing on immigration as the number 1 topic is futile and just boosts Reform. Jenrick and Lam have been less prominent too.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,977
    Nigelb said:

    Of possible interest to PBers...

    BP Abandons H2Teesside Carbon Capture & Hydrogen Scheme Amid AI Push

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bp-abandons-h2teesside-carbon-capture-192000443.html
    ...BP’s decision to abandon its “H2Teesside” project, announced in 2021, will instead allow for the construction of a large artificial intelligence data center at the site. This proposal involves building a data center spanning almost 500,000 square meters, intended to be the largest one in Europe, according to the Financial Times. This plan also has the backing of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology.

    The UK government introduced these “AI growth zones” within the AI Opportunities Action Plan in January. As part of the plan, the government offers specific geographic areas to push for the development of artificial intelligence infrastructure. The companies can benefit from this by receiving simplified planning approvals and preferential access to energy, as data centers require massive amounts of electricity.

    BP’s “H2Teesside” scheme was intended to produce blue hydrogen by extracting hydrogen from natural gas. The carbon dioxide produced in the process would have been captured and stored. BP’s decision to scrap this project was also influenced by weaker demand for low-carbon hydrogen. Initially, the company expected this project to produce 20% of the targeted production of hydrogen in the UK by 2030. However, the closure of a nearby site owned by the chemical giant Sabic, viewed as a potential customer, reduced the viability of the project. The demand for hydrogen produced this way has long faced challenges due to the high costs associated with its production. This marks a major setback for the UK government’s strategy to accelerate hydrogen production...

    That's less LNG to import.
    Wonder what the economics are for producing green H2 when there's surplus renewable electricity.
    Diluting domestic gas with H2 was partly to provide a "customer of last resort" to underwrite development of H2 production.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,085

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    What a cock!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    Govt to increase legal aid and criminal solicitor and court and victim and witness support funds, so a few good measures whatever you think of scrapping jury trials for all but the most serious cases

    'New Swift Courts where judges handle cases likely to result in sentences of 3 years or less

    - Courts, not defendants, deciding which venue hears either way cases

    - Judge-only trials for complex fraud and financial offences

    - Magistrates’ sentencing powers increased to 18 months, with the potential to rise to 2 years

    - £550 million invested in support services for victims and witnesses

    - Extra funding so Crown Court judges can sit more days

    - Up to £34 million a year added to criminal legal aid advocacy

    - Up to £92 million a year added to funding for criminal solicitors'
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1995841780688802169?s=20
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,553
    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,567

    More evidence Badenoch is being noticed

    Small steps but encouraging for the conservatives

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1996142406056439948?s=19

    Noticeably they seem to have finally realised focusing on immigration as the number 1 topic is futile and just boosts Reform. Jenrick and Lam have been less prominent too.

    More evidence Badenoch is being noticed

    Small steps but encouraging for the conservatives

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1996142406056439948?s=19

    I was speaking to an old friend last week. He's quite a cynical guy and had never had any time for the Tories, but to my surprise he stated that he rather liked Kemi. A straw in the wind perhaps.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    An unimpressive result for the Dems in Tennessee.

    If that swing was replicated Nationwide, 42 Republicans would lose their seats
    If.
    Polling in TN-7 suggested the Dems were only 2% behind. So, either:

    a) polling failure or

    b) polling was correct causing the Republicans to go into high-cost panic mode.

    Claiming that the other side spent money is always a good sign of a disappointing result.
    A result which would give the Democrats a very handy working majority in the House? I reckon the Democrats will take that disappointment in their stride.

    More likely is it will give the Republicans a degre of complacency that in all the circumstances isn't warranted.
    Interesting disparity between the urban and rural votes, Dems won almost 80% of the district inc Nashville, GOP 80% in small rural districts.
    So it seems her anti-Nashville comments weren't that big of issue, but her anti-country music comments were.

    I don't like much modern country music up to much. Even the Handsome Family haven't done anything decent in decades.
    Though the Democrats haven't won rural Tennessee since 1996 under President Bill Clinton and only then helped by Perot and his Reform Party splitting the GOP vote
    This from yesterday.

    National Republicans are scrambling to avert disaster today in a Tennessee district Trump won by +20 points

    If our victory margin is single digits, the conference may come unhinged,” one senior House Republican said. A loss would be catastrophic.
    Unhinged? How are we expected to tell the difference?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,343

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Ultimately there likely will be a folding together but it won't be until Farage departs the scene, and the brand will be Conservative. It's much easier to imagine Reform disappearing from the scene than the Tories.
    It's hard to think of a combined name that isn't an oxymoron.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    edited 12:16PM
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    All Scenarios possible but if Kemi lost a VONC or stepped down most Kemi and all Cleverly backing MPs would back Cleverly to replace her as leader not Jenrick, maybe even enough for a coronation. Or for Stride if Cleverly decides to back him and run for London Mayor instead.

    So Scenario 2 most likely, Scenario 1 may also still lead to a hung Parliament due to anti Reformed Con tactical voting
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077
    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,243
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    Its hard to imagine any mergers or coalitions involving any major party. Everyone looks at the LDs since the coalition. I know they're happy, but they're mad to be so.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,085
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    He’s very sure he’s right though. I envy that. I end up arguing three sides of the same point in my head.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,988

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    At the link is a very good 4 minute demolition of Lammy's proposed no juries plans.

    This is utterly DAMNING for David Lammy.

    "We are not looking to convict people as quickly as possible, we are looking for justice."

    A Barrister clinically dismantles David Lammy's disgraceful decision to scrap jury trials.

    Watch until the end.
    It wont even fix the backlog.

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1995954389014774270

    Jury Service is a form of Conscription.
    You can certainly view it as such.
    You're aware of the concept of civic duty ?
    So you believe in Conscription then?
    If there were an urgent need for it, yes.
    There isn't.
    What or who would define "need"?

    Is there a "need" for Jury Service?

    Note to editors: Sunil is one of that intrepid band who have been "called up" twice.
    Me too. Heard four cases. Three were a complete waste of time.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,767
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    edited 12:23PM
    HYUFD said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    All Scenarios possible but if Kemi lost a VONC or stepped down most Kemi and all Cleverly backing MPs would back Cleverly to replace her as leader not Jenrick, maybe even enough for a coronation. Or for Stride if Cleverly decides to back him and run for London Mayor instead.

    So Scenario 2 most likely, Scenario 1 may also still lead to a hung Parliament due to anti Reformed Con tactical voting
    If neither Cleverly (or Kemi if she stays Tory leader) nor Farage won the next GE both would likely resign and then Jenrick would try and seize his chance to lead the Tories and a reunited populist right and absorb most of post Farage Reform too.

    Cleverly would be more likely to gain tactical Labour and LD tactical votes to beat Reform at the next GE than Jenrick too, so Jenrick might be better to wait
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,502
    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,085

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    I don’t think anyone, probably not even SKS himself, would disagree with the last sentence
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077
    edited 12:22PM

    Nigelb said:

    Of possible interest to PBers...

    BP Abandons H2Teesside Carbon Capture & Hydrogen Scheme Amid AI Push

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bp-abandons-h2teesside-carbon-capture-192000443.html
    ...BP’s decision to abandon its “H2Teesside” project, announced in 2021, will instead allow for the construction of a large artificial intelligence data center at the site. This proposal involves building a data center spanning almost 500,000 square meters, intended to be the largest one in Europe, according to the Financial Times. This plan also has the backing of the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology.

    The UK government introduced these “AI growth zones” within the AI Opportunities Action Plan in January. As part of the plan, the government offers specific geographic areas to push for the development of artificial intelligence infrastructure. The companies can benefit from this by receiving simplified planning approvals and preferential access to energy, as data centers require massive amounts of electricity.

    BP’s “H2Teesside” scheme was intended to produce blue hydrogen by extracting hydrogen from natural gas. The carbon dioxide produced in the process would have been captured and stored. BP’s decision to scrap this project was also influenced by weaker demand for low-carbon hydrogen. Initially, the company expected this project to produce 20% of the targeted production of hydrogen in the UK by 2030. However, the closure of a nearby site owned by the chemical giant Sabic, viewed as a potential customer, reduced the viability of the project. The demand for hydrogen produced this way has long faced challenges due to the high costs associated with its production. This marks a major setback for the UK government’s strategy to accelerate hydrogen production...

    So the horseshit proposal (make expensive hydrogen) has been replaced with… bullshit?
    It's an unambiguous sign that the combination of expensive energy and expensive raw materials is a deeply unattractive one for the chemicals industry.

    However much ministers slap "world leading " labels on it.

    And that we don't have enough money to bribe them to think otherwise.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
    She is reasonable value and an excellent trading bet at close to 20 for next PM.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,402
    edited 12:23PM
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    He’s very sure he’s right though. I envy that. I end up arguing three sides of the same point in my head.
    What happens to the councils outside London & outside the big cities "greater area" (Manchester has shown a version of the Seal model can work within a city) though ?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,619

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,417
    Interesting Starmer slapped down Davey's request to join a customs union and the single market
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9yepzl1rjo

    Lawyers benefit pot for 🎄..💩
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,476
    edited 12:32PM
    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    As a resident of Woking, I'm not sure if I agree with you or not. On the one hand, I am filled with horror at the thought of genuinely being on the hook for the debt. On the other, local house building targets wouldn't exist so the urge to "do something" might not have been there in the first place.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077
    edited 12:35PM

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    At the link is a very good 4 minute demolition of Lammy's proposed no juries plans.

    This is utterly DAMNING for David Lammy.

    "We are not looking to convict people as quickly as possible, we are looking for justice."

    A Barrister clinically dismantles David Lammy's disgraceful decision to scrap jury trials.

    Watch until the end.
    It wont even fix the backlog.

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1995954389014774270

    Jury Service is a form of Conscription.
    You can certainly view it as such.
    You're aware of the concept of civic duty ?
    So you believe in Conscription then?
    If there were an urgent need for it, yes.
    There isn't.
    What or who would define "need"?

    Is there a "need" for Jury Service?

    Note to editors: Sunil is one of that intrepid band who have been "called up" twice.
    Me too. Heard four cases. Three were a complete waste of time.
    I would argue against it's being a serious inconvenience. (So were the years I spent as a school governor.)
    But on balance I think it a worthwhile inconvenience.

    And if course a better funded and organised system would be significantly less of an inconvenience, along with addressing the backlog.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,502

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    It’s Punch and Judy stuff but I think it’s the right call for the Tories at the moment. They are in danger of being crowded out of the debate by Reform and nobody listening to them.

    Kemi has learned that if she wants airtime she’s going to need to get some of these Commons performances onto social media. Going in big and punchy is the way to go while the Tories are where they are in the polls, IMHO.

    I would like to see more serious policymaking and strategising from the Tories. But not sure the floor of the HOC at PMQs is the right place for it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985

    BREXIT IS BACK - story courtesy of @patrickkmaguire and The State of It podcast

    Sir Keir Starmer has signalled that the government will intensify its criticism of Brexit as the Labour Party moves to put relations with Brussels at the heart of its campaign against Reform UK

    In a speech in the City of London on Monday the prime minister denounced Britain’s departure from the European Union as an “utterly reckless” template for foreign policy and criticised the “wild promises” of those who had campaigned to leave in 2016

    The prime minister was his party’s leading advocate for a second referendum before Brexit was implemented in 2020 and his strategists, anxious about alienating voters in Labour seats that voted to leave, have hitherto been wary of reopening the political argument or appearing critical of the result

    However, Downing Street has been emboldened to take a more direct approach by opinion polling that shows as many as six in ten voters now believe Britain should pursue a closer economic relationship with Europe

    The Times has been told that Starmer’s close ally Nick Thomas-Symonds, the paymaster-general, has been promoted to full cabinet rank as the government seeks to intensify talks over a closer relationship


    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1996164304547049580?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    I mean he is correct in saying Brexit (at least as implemented) has been a failure, but it would be terrible tactics politically to focus on this unless he plans to dramatically and quickly change our relationship with the EU - which seems close to implausible.

    He needs the government to do stuff to make peoples lives better and politically perhaps more importantly, start to explain and claim credit for it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,402
    tlg86 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    As a resident of Woking, I'm not sure if I agree with you or not. On the one hand, I am filled with horror at the thought of genuinely being on the hook for the debt. On the other, local house building targets wouldn't exist so the urge to "do something" might not have been there in the first place.
    Woking is an extreme example of mismanagement but there's an inherent issue for every Dunny-on-the-Wold (I'll include Bassetlaw/Nottinghamshire in this) council where the economics ex central funding would be (even more) horrendous than they already are.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,343
    Omnium said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    Its hard to imagine any mergers or coalitions involving any major party. Everyone looks at the LDs since the coalition. I know they're happy, but they're mad to be so.
    Aren't (post-election) coalitions and mergers very different things? The coalition went badly for the LDs, but the merger between the Liberals and SDP was more successful. The threat in a coalition is that the junior partner gets shafted, but there is no junior partner in a merger: you're merged into one thing.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,775
    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 925
    edited 12:39PM

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077

    Omnium said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    Its hard to imagine any mergers or coalitions involving any major party. Everyone looks at the LDs since the coalition. I know they're happy, but they're mad to be so.
    Aren't (post-election) coalitions and mergers very different things? The coalition went badly for the LDs, but the merger between the Liberals and SDP was more successful. The threat in a coalition is that the junior partner gets shafted, but there is no junior partner in a merger: you're merged into one thing.
    A merger of Reform and the Tories might well involve more policy contradictions than the one between the Libs and the SDems, I think ?

    (And it's not as though the latter combination doesn't have its issues.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,343

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
    In the last 20 polls on the Wikipedia page, the Tories are ahead of Labour on 5, tied on 3, and behind on 12.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,244
    Anyway, if the Conservatives don't have restoring trial by jury and references to Magna Carta in their next manifesto they'll be missing a huge open goal.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,046
    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,619

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    It’s Punch and Judy stuff but I think it’s the right call for the Tories at the moment. They are in danger of being crowded out of the debate by Reform and nobody listening to them.

    Kemi has learned that if she wants airtime she’s going to need to get some of these Commons performances onto social media. Going in big and punchy is the way to go while the Tories are where they are in the polls, IMHO.

    I would like to see more serious policymaking and strategising from the Tories. But not sure the floor of the HOC at PMQs is the right place for it.
    I don’t agree this substance lite Punch and Judy heavy is right for the conservatives at the moment. Not at all.

    This particular moment is May 3rd 2029. Everything in politics is for the long term moment of next General Election. One of the problems for the Conservatives now is the economy is beginning to turn round, it will still take a while but will reduce interest rates and cost of living issues. This was always going to happen whoever won the last election, but Labour will get the credit for it.

    PB being a brains trust and loves its political history, is there any learning from history that can help Tory front bench, about how to strike blows and resonate with voters when sitting government are presiding over an improving economy? Is there anything that drew blood in first two Blair terms, or for Labour in 1980’s?

    I can remember Balls and millipede giving it a go in 2010-2015, plans how to cut energy bills that caught public attention and pressured government. you can say they still lost in the end, but it could have helped them to better result than otherwise, and by magnitude better than tories rude and angry without substance approach of the last week ultimately not helping their electoral chances.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,619

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,858

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    If only Leon was here to tell us what the hell that necklace means that lady likes doing.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,809

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,988
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    At the link is a very good 4 minute demolition of Lammy's proposed no juries plans.

    This is utterly DAMNING for David Lammy.

    "We are not looking to convict people as quickly as possible, we are looking for justice."

    A Barrister clinically dismantles David Lammy's disgraceful decision to scrap jury trials.

    Watch until the end.
    It wont even fix the backlog.

    https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1995954389014774270

    Jury Service is a form of Conscription.
    You can certainly view it as such.
    You're aware of the concept of civic duty ?
    So you believe in Conscription then?
    If there were an urgent need for it, yes.
    There isn't.
    What or who would define "need"?

    Is there a "need" for Jury Service?

    Note to editors: Sunil is one of that intrepid band who have been "called up" twice.
    Me too. Heard four cases. Three were a complete waste of time.
    I would argue against it's being a serious inconvenience. (So were the years I spent as a school governor.)
    But on balance I think it a worthwhile inconvenience.
    It was certainly enlightening and I wasn't bothered by inconvenience to myself, but you couldn't help but be struck by the time wasted on three trivial cases - a scuffle outside a night club, the theft of a baby buggy from a front garden, and ABH arising from a minor alcohol related domestic dispute. I am sure all three could have been much better handled by a single judge, at huge cost saving.

    The other case involved the handling of £51k in counterfeit. I think we have discussed this before. A judge would almost certainly have dismissed it, but the jury convicted. We took a substantive view rather than the technically correct one. I think you disapproved, and I can understand that, but have never had any qualms about our verdict and would find the same way again today.

    Would like to discuss this further but have to go out. Sometimes life gets in the way of PB.

    A bientot,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919

    Anyway, if the Conservatives don't have restoring trial by jury and references to Magna Carta in their next manifesto they'll be missing a huge open goal.

    Restore trial by jury, except for inner city Labour and Green voting areas with lots of statues of controversial figures from the British Empire era?
  • eekeek Posts: 32,081

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
    I can see why she’s looking down at the paper, her neck muscles can’t support the weight of that chain
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    edited 12:53PM

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9yepzl1rjo

    Lawyers benefit pot for 🎄..💩

    Yes, the biggest winners from public inquiries are almost always the well paid lawyers who participate in them more than the victims the inquiries were set up to help change things for
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919

    Interesting Starmer slapped down Davey's request to join a customs union and the single market

    For now, if Labour lose their majority at the next GE they might have no choice but to follow Davey's demands
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,879

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    Perfect chain of office for the Mayor of Gretah Essix.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,030
    eek said:

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
    I can see why she’s looking down at the paper, her neck muscles can’t support the weight of that chain
    Being of a certain age, I see that and hear “I pity the fool..”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,343

    Anyway, if the Conservatives don't have restoring trial by jury and references to Magna Carta in their next manifesto they'll be missing a huge open goal.

    "Nullus liber homo capiatur, vel imprisonetur, aut desseisetur de libero tenemento, vel libertatibus, vel liberis consuetudinibus suis, aut utlagetur, aut exuletur, aut aliquo modo destruatur, nec super eum ibimus, nec super eum mittemus, nisi per legale judicium parium suorum, vel per legem terrae."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,069
    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,417
    edited 1:05PM
    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    She is being noticed and being feisty is not a negative and I expect her mps are quietly pleased at her improving ratings

    Of course she will attract criticism from some quarters, but then she has very much better ratings than Starmer and Reeves

    I should say my wife is quite fascinated by her and approves
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,965

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    Don't. Open. The. Ark.
  • PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
    Isn't there something in Thomas More's Utopia about all the gold and silver being taken by the state to fashion chains to be worn by those who had risen to wealth by improper means ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    OT - Clearly Farage expects the Cons to come to him on bended knee begging for the said alliance. No Ref oppo to sitting MPs in return for Ref getting a free run everywhere else for example. Seems unlikely. A much better plan to just take over the Cons - but that seems more likely after the next GE than before it. Farage needs things to happen fast - it won't get better for him and he may end up operating from a much weaker position.

    Only Jenrick if he replaced Kemi would even consider a formal Tory and Reform pact pre GE and Cleverly and Stride might not even back Farage to be PM post GE if a hung parliament but abstain
    Scenario 1:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (20%)
    Result - 400 seats to the Reformed Conservative Party. 100 seats to LD - the official opposition.
    Chance of it happening 60%x75%x20% about 10%?

    Scenario 2:
    Kemi does not step before next election, or if she does, Cleverley is the next leader (50% chance?)
    Tory leader succeeds in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (zero chance)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 50%?

    Scenario 3:
    Kemi steps down before next general (60% chance?)
    Jenrick replaces her (75% chance)
    jenrick does not succeed in negotiating a deal with Farage that leads to a Reformed Conservative Party going into the election (80%)
    Result - 150-250 seats to Reform, 50-150 seats to Con, 100-250 seats to Lab, 75-100 seats to LD, 10-50 seats to Green.
    Chance of it happening about 40%?
    The chances of Kemi stepping down are dropping rapidly. She's already got the Tories regularly ahead of Labour. If she can start reducing the gap to Reform, she'll be kept on.
    In the last 20 polls on the Wikipedia page, the Tories are ahead of Labour on 5, tied on 3, and behind on 12.
    If they are ahead on Mondays and behind the other 6 days, that would still be regularly.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
    Thatcher still fought the miners unions but yes she was clever enough to know when she was ready to go on the attack and when she needed to build resources first
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,965
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting Starmer slapped down Davey's request to join a customs union and the single market

    For now, if Labour lose their majority at the next GE they might have no choice but to follow Davey's demands
    I'm not convinced there's a scenario where a Labour/LibDem coalition is more likely than a Reform/Con coalition. :(
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,879

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
    She started off picking her battles wisely- see also the public pay increases in 1979.

    As advisers were replaced by courtiers, that wisdom rather left her.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,030

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
    Isn't there something in Thomas More's Utopia about all the gold and silver being taken by the state to fashion chains to be worn by those who had risen to wealth by improper means ?
    To be worn by slaves, IIRC
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    edited 1:10PM
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting Starmer slapped down Davey's request to join a customs union and the single market

    For now, if Labour lose their majority at the next GE they might have no choice but to follow Davey's demands
    I'm not convinced there's a scenario where a Labour/LibDem coalition is more likely than a Reform/Con coalition. :(
    Tactical voting against Farage, plus if you add in the SNP and Plaid and Green MPs too to keep out Farage.

    As I said earlier we may even get a hung parliament with a Reform/Con majority in England but not in the UK overall
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,343

    PMQs – has Rachel Gilmour ram-raided a jeweller?

    That’s just nuts. 🫣

    Why do voters send fruitcakes to parliament.
    Isn't there something in Thomas More's Utopia about all the gold and silver being taken by the state to fashion chains to be worn by those who had risen to wealth by improper means ?
    Kind of...

    "They eat and drink from earthen ware or glass, which make an agreeable appearance though they be of little value; while their chamber-pots and close-stools are made of gold and silver; and this not only in their public halls, but in their private houses. Of the same metals they also make chains and fetters for their slaves; on some of whom, as a badge of infamy, they hang an ear-ring of gold, and make others wear a chain or a coronet of the same metal. And thus they take care, by all possible means, to render gold and silver of no esteem."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077

    Anyway, if the Conservatives don't have restoring trial by jury and references to Magna Carta in their next manifesto they'll be missing a huge open goal.

    "Nullus liber homo capiatur, vel imprisonetur, aut desseisetur de libero tenemento, vel libertatibus, vel liberis consuetudinibus suis, aut utlagetur, aut exuletur, aut aliquo modo destruatur, nec super eum ibimus, nec super eum mittemus, nisi per legale judicium parium suorum, vel per legem terrae."
    We'll have none of that foreign rubbish here, thank you very much,
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,030
    DougSeal said:

    One for @Cyclefree

    https://metro.co.uk/2025/12/01/top-police-chief-sent-unsolicited-dick-pics-junior-officer-25041689/

    Retired hours before getting binned.

    A modest proposal - if a formal enquiry is begun into a police officer, government official or any other public employee, their retirement is frozen until the end of the enquiry.

    Freeze the pension and legislate for financial penalties if the hearing finds culpability post departure would be a better option.
    Hmmm.

    I was thinking more of impalement combined with crucifixion, while waiting for the outcome of the tribunal.

    But your suggestion can go on The List.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,085

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    For full transparency. my little essay above is what might be described as a Centrist Dad rehashing of Murray Bookchin's Libertarian Municipalism. Not an original thought.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,502
    edited 1:15PM

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    It’s Punch and Judy stuff but I think it’s the right call for the Tories at the moment. They are in danger of being crowded out of the debate by Reform and nobody listening to them.

    Kemi has learned that if she wants airtime she’s going to need to get some of these Commons performances onto social media. Going in big and punchy is the way to go while the Tories are where they are in the polls, IMHO.

    I would like to see more serious policymaking and strategising from the Tories. But not sure the floor of the HOC at PMQs is the right place for it.
    I don’t agree this substance lite Punch and Judy heavy is right for the conservatives at the moment. Not at all.

    This particular moment is May 3rd 2029. Everything in politics is for the long term moment of next General Election. One of the problems for the Conservatives now is the economy is beginning to turn round, it will still take a while but will reduce interest rates and cost of living issues. This was always going to happen whoever won the last election, but Labour will get the credit for it.

    PB being a brains trust and loves its political history, is there any learning from history that can help Tory front bench, about how to strike blows and resonate with voters when sitting government are presiding over an improving economy? Is there anything that drew blood in first two Blair terms, or for Labour in 1980’s?

    I can remember Balls and millipede giving it a go in 2010-2015, plans how to cut energy bills that caught public attention and pressured government. you can say they still lost in the end, but it could have helped them to better result than otherwise, and by magnitude better than tories rude and angry without substance approach of the last week ultimately not helping their electoral chances.
    This is starting from the premise that people will be feeling better off in 2029. We simply don’t know that to be the case.

    Anyway, we’ll agree to disagree on this one. I think Kemi is playing a decent enough game, given the Tories’ starting position, right now. But they still have a lot of serious work to do on policy and pitch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,402
    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,333

    In case you've not seen last night's football and the greatest overhead kick goal in history, scored by Cristian Romero for Spurs.

    https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1995980346756632963

    Mctominay goal was far superior to that by a mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dscBHT-kI
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077
    Not only is Rubio skipping the NATO foreign ministers' meeting, a break from 20 years of practice, but the US is sending
    @DeputySecState, a man who publicly questioned NATO's need to exist less than six months ago. Message received loud & clear.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1996125750148190601
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,965

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    This is why I like the Mayoralities. They are big enough to wield power and small enough to still have a personal vote. Consider Ray Mallon (Middlesbrough), Andy Burnham (Manchester), Boris Johnson or Ken Livingstone (London).
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,773

    Battlebus said:

    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Isn't this just Farage doing what he always does? I think he enjoys the limelight but would run a mile from political office.

    It’s always easier to be in permanent opposition, able to suggest solutions and ideas that never have to be actually implemented.

    Unfortunately the current government appears to have arrived with no ideas, and the previous government had run out of them.
    As many of their newly elected councillors running an administration, they’ll be discovering that governing is hard hard hard. A series of spinning plates full of shit, surrounded by electric fans.
    I don't think incompetence in office will hit Reform hard enough. A recent example:

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-durham-county-council-darren-grimes-400775/

    That situation would have applied whoever ran the county. There is a consultation on the budget tomorrow and the details have been published on the council site. Reform have made some savings but the demands on councils and budgets across the board are going up. That’s not incompetence it’s a broken funding model for local govt.
    Maybe. But it still leaves Reform heading up the shit-sandwich buffet...

    What is Reform's policy for mending the broken funding model for local government? 3 words: Close. Things. Down.
    Nope

    It’s the same as any other local
    Govt

    More.govt.money
    I refer the honourable members to my long standing answer on this. Abolish local government, standardise services nationwide, and reap the benefits of doing it all at scale.

    Solved.
    Indeed. Alternatively hand local powers back to people and get the busybodies out of the way.

    Anything that is standardised nationwide, like SEND/Care etc should be dealt with and funded nationwide.

    Anything that is a choice, should be chosen by the individuals concerned.

    Get rid of the local councils, elections and abolish that whole layer of bureaucracy and crap.
    Getting rid of local councils will reduce headcount by about 2mn. Headcount and services have been reduced over the years. Current figures for Central Government are 4.04mn (2025) up from 2.3mn in 1999. Total employed is 34mn or 75% of those of workforce age.

    How does everyone feel about Bart's suggestion of more central government?




    Its more a suggestion for less government, than more central government.

    Much of what local government funds currently comes from central government diktats and obligations anyway. Councils are legally obliged to follow through with care and SEND and other stuff that central government insists upon. If central government insists upon it, then it should fund it. Care that is obligated to be provided should be funded through the Department of Health and Social Care. SEND should be funded through the Department of Education.

    Local funding should be for local choices. Of which there is precious little anyway, so either free that up, or abolish the whole lot of it.
    Obliged.
    Going to disagree with you there. Obligated is a UK formal adjective, dating back centuries, it is not an Americanism: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/obligated

    Since they are legally obliged to follow through with those, they are obligated to provide it. I am not an English teacher, but that is proper grammar, AFAIK.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,333
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Isn't this just Farage doing what he always does? I think he enjoys the limelight but would run a mile from political office.

    It’s always easier to be in permanent opposition, able to suggest solutions and ideas that never have to be actually implemented.

    Unfortunately the current government appears to have arrived with no ideas, and the previous government had run out of them.
    As many of their newly elected councillors running an administration, they’ll be discovering that governing is hard hard hard. A series of spinning plates full of shit, surrounded by electric fans.
    I don't think incompetence in office will hit Reform hard enough. A recent example:

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-durham-county-council-darren-grimes-400775/

    That situation would have applied whoever ran the county. There is a consultation on the budget tomorrow and the details have been published on the council site. Reform have made some savings but the demands on councils and budgets across the board are going up. That’s not incompetence it’s a broken funding model for local govt.
    Maybe. But it still leaves Reform heading up the shit-sandwich buffet...

    What is Reform's policy for mending the broken funding model for local government? 3 words: Close. Things. Down.
    Nope

    It’s the same as any other local
    Govt

    More.govt.money
    Not quite in Durham you also have lower council tax grants so the poorest now have to find more money to pay a council tax bill they previously didn’t need to pay
    Quite right too. They should contribute something.

    Some perspective required

    Durham previously let the ‘poorest’ have a 100% rebate on their council tax. This will now be 90%. Far more generous than most other councils including Labour ones.
    Feckin unbelievable, why would anyone on low wages bother working , far better to lie in your kip and get showered with benefits and all tax free. It is mental.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985
    Nigelb said:

    Not only is Rubio skipping the NATO foreign ministers' meeting, a break from 20 years of practice, but the US is sending
    @DeputySecState, a man who publicly questioned NATO's need to exist less than six months ago. Message received loud & clear.

    https://x.com/shashj/status/1996125750148190601

    The message will be heard with fingers in ears rather than loud and clear. Paralysis is far easier for our leaders to cope with than accepting Trumpian reality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077
    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,333

    Chessgate takes a new turn. Reeves is toast.

    ... while Ms Reeves did win the under-14 title for the British Women’s Chess Association (BWCA) Girls Championship in 1993, there was an important distinction.

    Mr Edmans explained: “That is not the British girls’ championship, it is clearly defined as the girl who does best in the British championship. “She may well have won titles, but the title of British girls’ champion is a specific event. The BWCA has its own championship and then you are the BWCA champion.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2141580/rachel-reeves-left-redfaced-truth

    Good luck explaining that to the public, whether you are on the side that Reeves lied or was truthful. It makes the different boxing world titles look straightforward.

    As an interesting aside, the Mr Edmans calling out the Chancellor is the same professor who gave a Ted talk on trust in a post-truth world.
    https://www.ted.com/talks/alex_edmans_what_to_trust_in_a_post_truth_world

    This "gate" has clearly reached stalemate. Those who are keen to find fault will continue to do so, the rest of us look on bemused.
    OBR gate proved to be all fart and no follow through.

    OBR says Reeves did not mislead public over Budget forecasts

    https://www.ft.com/content/48c29b11-deca-423c-bfbd-06968f43867d
    been leant on big time
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,034
    Not so much La Belle Alliance as La Belle Dame sans merci

    I saw pale kings and princes too,
    Pale warriors, death-pale were they all;
    They cried—‘La Belle Dame sans Merci
    Thee hath in thrall!’

    I saw their starved lips in the gloam,
    With horrid warning gapèd wide,
    And I awoke and found me here,
    On the cold hill’s side.

    And this is why I sojourn here,
    Alone and palely loitering,
    Though the sedge is withered from the lake,
    And no birds sing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,046

    Anyway, if the Conservatives don't have restoring trial by jury and references to Magna Carta in their next manifesto they'll be missing a huge open goal.

    "Nullus liber homo capiatur, vel imprisonetur, aut desseisetur de libero tenemento, vel libertatibus, vel liberis consuetudinibus suis, aut utlagetur, aut exuletur, aut aliquo modo destruatur, nec super eum ibimus, nec super eum mittemus, nisi per legale judicium parium suorum, vel per legem terrae."
    The largesse of the British Empire – railways, parliamentary democracy and trial by jury.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,919
    edited 1:25PM
    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    Sentencing is within the guidelines set by Parliament and the Sentencing Council, even for judges and magistrates
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,085
    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    Cue lawyers trying even more desperately to get cases to areas with socially liberal jurors.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,034
    edited 1:30PM
    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,193
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The Soviet Union (including Ukraine etc) was our ally, not Russia. Officially Athiest with priests in the gulag too.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,619
    edited 1:35PM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
    Thatcher still fought the miners unions but yes she was clever enough to know when she was ready to go on the attack and when she needed to build resources first
    TSE is absolutely right. I have studied Lady Thatcher, I feel I know Lady Thatcher, and Kemi Badenoch ain’t no Lady Thatcher.

    Kemi and her team need to go back and study Lady Thatcher in 70s and 80s and learn that it was all based on substance.

    All Kemi and her team are doing is the Farage waving angry fist tactic, which only Reform can get away with precisely because they are not Labour or the Conservatives, who are the ones Farage is waving his angry fist at for their time in government.

    I’ll give you classic example of this difference, Kemi more Farage than Thatcher from just over an hour ago. Well if you can look beyond how angry and salty Kemi is coming across to what she is actually saying, the attack line at PMQs was to bash Starmer with media report an unnamed minster complained about being beaten up and done over by Reeves as she built the additional headroom and borrowing repayment the markets loved and the 2 child cap lift sop for own party at same time.

    If you can’t see what is wrong with that let me explain it. When Kemi is PM she will actually want her chancellor to strong arm cabinet colleagues to build the budget war chest that builds additional headroom pays off borrowing the market loves and the tax cut sop to her own party.

    What you are praising isn’t actual substance, it’s just fluff the growth industry of political media likes.

    Seeing Nigel’s angry fist waved at them and in turn waving their own angry fist at Labour does won’t work for the Conservatives. They need to be for something, they need to be distinct, they need policy differentials. They need to stop living in the moment and work NOW on that distinct and for something identity 3rd May 2029.

    Edit. Going out to talk to sheep, they have more political acumen.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,553
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting Starmer slapped down Davey's request to join a customs union and the single market

    For now, if Labour lose their majority at the next GE they might have no choice but to follow Davey's demands
    I'm not convinced there's a scenario where a Labour/LibDem coalition is more likely than a Reform/Con coalition. :(
    There won't be a labour/LibDem coalition. There might be C&S with terms.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,402
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    He will be rightly killed in prison with any luck like Ian Watkins was.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,034

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch punchy again at PMQs, as suspected. Thought the stuff about the OBR got lost in the fog of debate but she was very good on the two child benefit stuff at the end. Starmer is being made to look very flat-footed by her now and he didn’t manage to rally his MPs at all (bit concerning when she was going after his leadership). He needs to up his game.

    Not my take at all. Badenoch’s leadership of the party is too much opposition calling for resignations in every breath. It’s all gossipy and fluff and rudeness - where’s the gravitas? When it comes to preparing for PMQs or aligning with clear strategy on policy, they seem to just take everything off the front page of the daily mail.

    For all the talk of Kemigasm, her only announcement on economic policy which stands out is Cavemen didn’t have a welfare state.
    Kemi has some of what Thatcher had at least on the first point, she would cross the road to get in an argument or start a fight
    Except that’s not true, Thatcher picked her battles wisely.

    For example she caved into the miners in 1981 because the government wasn’t ready for a strike, by 1984 the government was well prepared and crushed the miners.
    Thatcher still fought the miners unions but yes she was clever enough to know when she was ready to go on the attack and when she needed to build resources first
    TSE is absolutely right. I have studied Lady Thatcher, I feel I know Lady Thatcher, and Kemi Badenoch ain’t no Lady Thatcher.

    Kemi and her team need to go back and study Lady Thatcher in 70s and 80s and learn that it was all based on substance.

    All Kemi and her team are doing is the Farage waving angry fist tactic, which only Reform can get away with precisely because they are not Labour or the Conservatives, who are the ones Farage is waving his angry fist at for their time in government.

    I’ll give you classic example of this difference, Kemi more Farage than Thatcher from just over an hour ago. Well if you can look beyond how angry and salty Kemi is coming across to what she is actually saying, the attack line at PMQs was to bash Starmer with media report an unnamed minster complained about being beaten up and done over by Reeves as she built the additional headroom and borrowing repayment the markets loved and the 2 child cap lift sop for own party at same time.

    If you can’t see what is wrong with that let me explain it. When Kemi is PM she will actually want her chancellor to strong arm cabinet colleagues to build the budget war chest that builds additional headroom pays off borrowing the market loves and the tax cut sop to her own party.

    What you are praising isn’t actual substance, it’s just fluff the growth industry of political media likes.

    Seeing Nigel’s angry fist waved at them and in turn waving their own angry fist at Labour does won’t work for the Conservatives. They need to be for something, they need to be distinct, they need policy differentials. They need to stop living in the moment and work NOW on that distinct and for something identity 3rd May 2029.

    Edit. Going out to talk to sheep, they have more political acumen.
    Watch they don't pull the wool over your eyes.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,486
    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,773

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    Except UK is full of retired NIMBYs, who are much easier to fight on a national policy level (not that anyone is) than a local one. I think that's a lot of where Bart's coming from.
    The ideologically libertarian way to put this is that if you need the government to make rules, they should be objective and generalized. If you need a lot of local knowledge to make decisions properly, you're probably micromanaging too much.

    A practical way to see this distinction is if you compare Japan, which has planning rules but they're mostly like "if there is a slope, your building must be at least twice as far from the slope as the height of the slope, and this will be checked by a man with a tape measure", with Britain, which has rules like "you should not be out of character with the general vibe of the place, and a committee of elderly people will tell you whether what you want to build does that or not".
    Indeed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,486
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    DougSeal said:

    Sometimes it takes a post to realise a great truth. Barty is the anti-Doug. Or Doug is the anti-Barty if you prefer. While Barty's libertarianism suggests local govt should be abolished in favour of national, I believe the opposite. If I were arrogant enough to draft a proposal for a well organised society, I'd posit that municipalities should be the primary unit of political organisation, rather than nation-states. I genuinely despise nationalism and would love a political culture rooted in citizenship and civic engagement rather than ethnic or cultural identity. Even so-called "civic nationalists" can't completely escape the taint of at least one of those. Usually both.

    I daydream that democracy moves back to the original idea of its classical founders - people would participate directly in face-to-face assemblies at the municipal level to make decisions about local affairs, moving beyond representative democracy toward genuine participatory self-governance. I think representative democracy is cracking up and the only way to save democracy in any meaningful sense is to move back to toward genuine participation. Yeah, theoretically you could do that on a national basis, like a Eurovision vote, endless referenda, but are people really participating, rather than just observing.

    Municipalities could form voluntary confederations to coordinate on larger issues while maintaining local autonomy. Economic life would be reorganised around municipal ownership and cooperative enterprises making the local community the fundamental unit of political life while connecting these communities through horizontal networks rather than vertical state structures.

    It'll never happen but, hey, it's my ha'penny's worth on how to save the world.

    Municipal corporations were a part of the bedrock of Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    And in the new millennium, it's notable that outside of the capital (which hoards capital to itself), the strongest growth is in the cities with strongest devolved powers.

    Barty's bastardised mashup of centralism and libertarianism has no successful real world analogues.
    As a self proclaimed soft Libertarian, although not of the Propertarian bent that Bart seems to espouse I have to say I very much like Doug's idea of bottom up governance. Only those things that cannot be achieved at the lower tier should be elevated to a higher tier.

    My only difference is that in this system I still see a place for the Nation State to provide the legal and security framework within which it all happens. That is not something I think can be done effectively or democratically at a Supra national level.

    But most decisions being made at a municipal, town or parish level is very much something to be aspired to.
    This is why I like the Mayoralities. They are big enough to wield power and small enough to still have a personal vote. Consider Ray Mallon (Middlesbrough), Andy Burnham (Manchester), Boris Johnson or Ken Livingstone (London).
    See also US state governors and German provincial leaders.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,985
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    It is not bizarre. It is a collection of the worlds richest billionaires working out how they can share the most power. Religion and politics are tools not objectives.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,069
    malcolmg said:

    In case you've not seen last night's football and the greatest overhead kick goal in history, scored by Cristian Romero for Spurs.

    https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1995980346756632963

    Mctominay goal was far superior to that by a mile

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3dscBHT-kI
    McTominay’s goal wasn’t even the best goal in that game.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,077

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Perhaps it ought not to come as a surprise that a friend of Epstein sees Russia as "devoutly Christian".

    Steve Bannon says the US should ally with Russia:

    “Russia is a devoutly Christian nation and was our true ally in WWII.”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1995893766863892742

    The end of the sentence left hanging, but pretty obviously “…not Britain”.

    Bizarre though when a. The Soviet Union was the ally, not Russia, and b. It was a communist state that outlawed organised religion.
    It is not bizarre. It is a collection of the worlds richest billionaires working out how they can share the most power. Religion and politics are tools not objectives.
    It's still rank stupidity, even in that context.
    The voice of experience:

    https://x.com/Billbrowder/status/1995051199259635921
    The Wall Street Journal alleges that the real motivation behind Trump’s eagerness to force Ukraine into an ugly surrender is the idea that a lot of people close to him can make a lot of money doing business and deals in Russia.

    If this is true, beyond the disgusting morality of this and the huge geopolitical risks that it creates, none of these people salivating over their future riches are going to make a penny, and perhaps do a lot worse.

    I was once the largest foreign investor in Russia and I can say with certainty that the Russians aren’t going to let anyone profit in any way. They will talk nice at the outset to attract the investment, but once it’s there, they will steal, defraud, arrest, torture or even kill to make sure that no American makes any money. I’ve seen it so many times it’s almost universal.

    So, this shocking initiative is not only terrible policy, it’s spectacularly stupid business.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,239
    I see Kemi was blaming Reeves/Starmer for "hundreds of thousands of people withdrawing money from their pensions" in advance of the budget.

    She should have a word with the Daily Mail, which was recommending this course of action to its gullible readers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,194
    edited 1:58PM
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    I'm wondering what to make of that post. Are you seriously suggesting that burning at the stake should be an acceptable punishment in this case? Or any case, indeed?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,114
    On Topic

    A bit like Lammys plans for justice.

    IE The Jury's out on that one
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,319

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If juries are to give verdicts on guilt then repurpose juries to decide sentencing:

    https://news.sky.com/story/nursery-worker-45-pleads-guilty-to-26-serious-sexual-offences-against-children-13478610

    I don't think burning the accused to death at the stake is within the range of their powers.
    I'm wondering what to make of that post. Are you seriously suggesting that burning at the stake should be an acceptable punishment in this case? Or any case, indeed?
    For cyclists ignoring pedestrian red lights, it should be mandatory.
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