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The betting markets are so far unmoved by Starmer’s speech – politicalbetting.com

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  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,890

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    Labour committimg a cardinal sin. If you need to couch and qualify your attack youre losing
    An angry Farage has come out swinging. Starmer has been very careful not to label the voters as racist. Farage has made the accusation that Starmer has. I am comfortable that although a risky strategy shrouded in jeopardy it is worth the risk.

    Farage's speech was absolutely polished. It was a very well crafted pack of pies (phew, unparliamentary language avoided).

    I haven't seen Starmer's speech but from commentary on here it was an absolute horror show, only not quite as awful as it might have been. I understand from BigG. that Kemi eclipsed Starmer too. Oh dear!
    The Reform problem to me seems to be this. People who don’t like Farage/Reform believe that the party AND its supporters are racist. Lots of Reform members and supporters probably are racists. But there is also a large number of people who don’t believe that they are racist, but would quite like a lot fewer immigrants in the country, and that the last two things are not mutually impossible.

    If you want Reform voters to vote for you, address their concerns, don’t call them racists.
    To be fair Labour are quite clear that they are trying to address those concerns.

    The days of the Boriswave are gone (at least until Canada gets invaded). To get ILR migrants will need to stay 10 years rather than five, volunteer and be net tax payers. That is a fairly substantial change. Deportations are running significantly higher than under the Tories.

    Voters aren't in the mood to listen, at least not yet, but Labour have moved substantially from the more permissive Conservative policies.
    A lot of voters, wrongly, think hundreds of thousands are arriving via small boats each year, and are fed up that nothing is done to stop it. Might not be accurate or logical, but that’s the truth as they see it.
    ... and they allow them to vote...
  • algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475
    Talk about an irresponsible headline-

    https://news.sky.com/story/hurricanes-humberto-and-imelda-to-bring-heavy-rain-and-strong-winds-to-uk-13441437

    A glance at the headline suggests the UKmis about to be hit by two hurricanes. It is not.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,766

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Interestingly, Herceg Novi, where I am staying, was briefly Spanish. Also Bosnian, Ottoman, Venetian, French, briefly again Russian, and then Austrian.

    I haven't travelled over the summer - to be honest most months I have found an excuse to go away in the UK - I thought I had lost my mojo but seem to be getting it back.

    Hoping you do get to travel soon. I do like Ottoman Southern Europe and wonder what Naples would be like if Piri Reis or Hayrettin Barbarossa had ever conquered it.
    So do I. Though some days I am starting to lose hope. And all the chat about Naples today - the city which is the nearest I have to a home, where I was forged - is making me feel homesick and longing for a safer more optimistic time (for me anyway). The hospital here (ironically one of the very first cases I ever worked as a pupil barrister was a construction dispute about the building of the hospital ) has a "Welcome to Oncology" sign as you go in and, as OH said when we first went, "That's fucking bonkers. Nothing welcome about it." And he's right. (They mean well I know.)

    I love the layers of history in Naples and other cities like it - especially in those countries which have been invaded regularly.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,464

    Talk about an irresponsible headline-

    https://news.sky.com/story/hurricanes-humberto-and-imelda-to-bring-heavy-rain-and-strong-winds-to-uk-13441437

    A glance at the headline suggests the UKmis about to be hit by two hurricanes. It is not.

    *Insert Obvious Michael Fish Joke Here*
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,701
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Interestingly, Herceg Novi, where I am staying, was briefly Spanish. Also Bosnian, Ottoman, Venetian, French, briefly again Russian, and then Austrian.

    I haven't travelled over the summer - to be honest most months I have found an excuse to go away in the UK - I thought I had lost my mojo but seem to be getting it back.

    Hoping you do get to travel soon. I do like Ottoman Southern Europe and wonder what Naples would be like if Piri Reis or Hayrettin Barbarossa had ever conquered it.
    So do I. Though some days I am starting to lose hope. And all the chat about Naples today - the city which is the nearest I have to a home, where I was forged - is making me feel homesick and longing for a safer more optimistic time (for me anyway). The hospital here (ironically one of the very first cases I ever worked as a pupil barrister was a construction dispute about the building of the hospital ) has a "Welcome to Oncology" sign as you go in and, as OH said when we first went, "That's fucking bonkers. Nothing welcome about it." And he's right. (They mean well I know.)

    I love the layers of history in Naples and other cities like it - especially in those countries which have been invaded regularly.
    Best of British luck old girl

    I actually passed GAY ODIN today, and thought of you

    X
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,290

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    Ratters said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @gabyhinsliff.bsky.social‬

    Fascinated by the Hegseth ‘office junior accidentally gets to be the boss for a day, gets carried away’ vibe of this speech www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025... where he’s apparently summoned a load of generals in the middle of escalating tension with Russia just to say they’re fatter than him?

    https://bsky.app/profile/gabyhinsliff.bsky.social/post/3m23emppfkk2y

    It's particularly funny when Hegseth is standing on stage with the Commander in Chief who is most definitely a fatty.
    And has bone spurs what ever they are but they get you out of Vietnam.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,766
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,741
    The most offensive thing Farage has said in a long time is his pronunciation of Antifa.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,766
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Interestingly, Herceg Novi, where I am staying, was briefly Spanish. Also Bosnian, Ottoman, Venetian, French, briefly again Russian, and then Austrian.

    I haven't travelled over the summer - to be honest most months I have found an excuse to go away in the UK - I thought I had lost my mojo but seem to be getting it back.

    Hoping you do get to travel soon. I do like Ottoman Southern Europe and wonder what Naples would be like if Piri Reis or Hayrettin Barbarossa had ever conquered it.
    So do I. Though some days I am starting to lose hope. And all the chat about Naples today - the city which is the nearest I have to a home, where I was forged - is making me feel homesick and longing for a safer more optimistic time (for me anyway). The hospital here (ironically one of the very first cases I ever worked as a pupil barrister was a construction dispute about the building of the hospital ) has a "Welcome to Oncology" sign as you go in and, as OH said when we first went, "That's fucking bonkers. Nothing welcome about it." And he's right. (They mean well I know.)

    I love the layers of history in Naples and other cities like it - especially in those countries which have been invaded regularly.
    Best of British luck old girl

    I actually passed GAY ODIN today, and thought of you

    X
    And the chocolate is in your bag, yes?🙏
  • algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
  • algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,676
    Cyclefree said:

    Housing is what the government should be concentrating on -

    - building more
    - Building a variety of high quality homes
    - sorting out the post-Grenfell mess
    - Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen
    - Improving standards in existing homes
    - Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market

    Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.

    Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.

    They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.

    Well that does tend to be what party conferences are for.
    But otherwise, I agree entirely, and have been saying much the same since they took office.
  • algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,627
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
    I started reading about it, after watching The Leopard.

    Strange as it may seem, the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    Top front page headline tonight for Starmer in Telegraph.

    McSweeney and co will be delighted.
  • algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    The IDF of 1967 conquered Gaza in just 48 hours. Why has Netanyahu taken nearly two years?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    Superb headline from FT. "musters" - just brilliant subbing imho.

    https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1973123677811253773/photo/1
  • isamisam Posts: 42,732

    …..


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,676
    Misogynist nihilists.

    Afghan women lose their 'last hope' as Taliban shut down internet
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98dmq03n92o
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084
    I've been having a listen to the Peter Hegseth speech.

    It's fairly short - 50 minutes, and is here:
    https://www.war.gov/Multimedia/Videos/videoid/984046/

    Ukraine the Latest tomorrow will be interesting, as the team has 2 or 3 servicemen with significant and varied careers.

    I'd say that amongst other things they will comment on his vision of the moral component of war.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214
    edited September 30
    Photo of the day, from our corporate shindig



    She’s a bloody good dj
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    TimS said:

    Photo of the day, from our corporate shindig



    She’s a bloody good dj

    Sarah Cox?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    The IDF of 1967 conquered Gaza in just 48 hours. Why has Netanyahu taken nearly two years?
    Friedman, NY Times:


    "My bottom line: If you are a betting person, bet that the necessary will be impossible — you have a lot of history on your side that says the closer we get to peace, the more the haters will derail it.

    If you are a hoping person, hope that this time will be different.

    If you are praying person, pray that everything you know about this region, its current leaders and the poisonous legacy of the Gaza war will be overcome — because somehow the key players all realize that this really is the last train to somewhere decent and the next one, and all those ever after, will be nonstops to the gates of hell.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,741
    It's all projection.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,797

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    The IDF of 1967 conquered Gaza in just 48 hours. Why has Netanyahu taken nearly two years?
    I assume Gaza has not changed in the interim?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214
    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Photo of the day, from our corporate shindig



    She’s a bloody good dj

    Sarah Cox?
    Mel C!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    WTF

    Why the f is UK head of Palantir on a newsnight panel of three discussing the main leader speech of a major political party.?

    The rest of the panel is deeply problematic as it is Abbot and Bragg. Both on the left
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    edited September 30
    Cyclefree said:

    Housing is what the government should be concentrating on -

    - building more
    - Building a variety of high quality homes
    - sorting out the post-Grenfell mess
    - Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen
    - Improving standards in existing homes
    - Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market

    Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.

    Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.

    They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.

    When the population is increasing by a half to three-quarters of a million a year net, it's going to be almost impossible to build enough homes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    It was 2013?

    I wondered where that had come from.

    The Mail sounds desperate.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,200
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
    I started reading about it, after watching The Leopard.

    Strange as it may seem, the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.
    Any recommemdations for a readablr and entertaining history of all this?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    Perpetual war suits Netanyahu as much as it does Putin.
    I'm not sure that comparison holds.

    Israel has lost essentially no soldiers in its assaults. Its exports are at a record. Its economy is booming. Its enemies divided. If you are an Israeli of a certain persuasion, you are feeling pretty fucking optimistic right now.

    By contrast, Russia has lost the best part of a million people, dead or wounded. A further 600,000 people have fled the country. Oil exports are collapsing. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO. You military has been hammered, to the extent you've had to rely on the North Koreans to provide shells. If it wasn't for the large population disparity, the war would be already over.

    And you control less of Ukraine than you did four months into the "Special Miitary Occupation".

    Even if Russia is able to extract concessions out of Ukraine (no NATO or EU, disarmament, etc), it will be hard not to conclude Russia will have lost by the invasion of Ukraine.

    Israel, on the other, is master of all she surveys. Now, sure, everyone hates her, but her enemies are in pieces, and most of her neighbours are willing to make peace.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Naples:

    If they ever sorted out the trash, it would be an amazing city.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
    I started reading about it, after watching The Leopard.

    Strange as it may seem, the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.
    Among some of their subjects, sure.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214
    Andy_JS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Housing is what the government should be concentrating on -

    - building more
    - Building a variety of high quality homes
    - sorting out the post-Grenfell mess
    - Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen
    - Improving standards in existing homes
    - Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market

    Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.

    Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.

    They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.

    When the population is increasing by a half to three-quarters of a million a year net, it's going to be almost impossible to build enough homes.
    Enjoy it while it lasts. We’re heading into a century of population shrinkage. Within our lifetimes there’ll be nobody left but crusty old codgers, of whatever skin colour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,060
    edited September 30
    rcs1000 said:

    Naples:

    If they ever sorted out the trash, it would be an amazing city.

    Delhi says "Hold my Lassi."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazipur_landfill

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39M2mqm7og
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,627
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    Perpetual war suits Netanyahu as much as it does Putin.
    I'm not sure that comparison holds.

    Israel has lost essentially no soldiers in its assaults. Its exports are at a record. Its economy is booming. Its enemies divided. If you are an Israeli of a certain persuasion, you are feeling pretty fucking optimistic right now.

    By contrast, Russia has lost the best part of a million people, dead or wounded. A further 600,000 people have fled the country. Oil exports are collapsing. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO. You military has been hammered, to the extent you've had to rely on the North Koreans to provide shells. If it wasn't for the large population disparity, the war would be already over.

    And you control less of Ukraine than you did four months into the "Special Miitary Occupation".

    Even if Russia is able to extract concessions out of Ukraine (no NATO or EU, disarmament, etc), it will be hard not to conclude Russia will have lost by the invasion of Ukraine.

    Israel, on the other, is master of all she surveys. Now, sure, everyone hates her, but her enemies are in pieces, and most of her neighbours are willing to make peace.
    Netanyahu sees Israel as the new Sparta, which was master of all it surveyed in 400 BC.

    Thirty years later, not so much.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Housing is what the government should be concentrating on -

    - building more
    - Building a variety of high quality homes
    - sorting out the post-Grenfell mess
    - Training proper construction tradesmen and craftsmen
    - Improving standards in existing homes
    - Sorting out leasehold issues & the rental market

    Not faffing around calling Reform voters names.

    Peter Apps who has written extensively about Grenfell and the housing market could give them a few ideas.

    They should just get on with their fucking job rather than making adenoidal speeches written by half-witted interns and AI which sound like the sort of rubbish you see printed on overpriced mugs.

    When the population is increasing by a half to three-quarters of a million a year net, it's going to be almost impossible to build enough homes.
    Enjoy it while it lasts. We’re heading into a century of population shrinkage. Within our lifetimes there’ll be nobody left but crusty old codgers, of whatever skin colour.
    Indeed: I suspect we're about to swap one mistake for another; we're going to go from the problems of too many people arriving, to the problem of a shrinking population (and a rapidly worsening dependency ratio).

    I blame Boris.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,833
    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    Perpetual war suits Netanyahu as much as it does Putin.
    I'm not sure that comparison holds.

    Israel has lost essentially no soldiers in its assaults. Its exports are at a record. Its economy is booming. Its enemies divided. If you are an Israeli of a certain persuasion, you are feeling pretty fucking optimistic right now.

    By contrast, Russia has lost the best part of a million people, dead or wounded. A further 600,000 people have fled the country. Oil exports are collapsing. Finland and Sweden have joined NATO. You military has been hammered, to the extent you've had to rely on the North Koreans to provide shells. If it wasn't for the large population disparity, the war would be already over.

    And you control less of Ukraine than you did four months into the "Special Miitary Occupation".

    Even if Russia is able to extract concessions out of Ukraine (no NATO or EU, disarmament, etc), it will be hard not to conclude Russia will have lost by the invasion of Ukraine.

    Israel, on the other, is master of all she surveys. Now, sure, everyone hates her, but her enemies are in pieces, and most of her neighbours are willing to make peace.
    Netanyahu sees Israel as the new Sparta, which was master of all it surveyed in 400 BC.

    Thirty years later, not so much.
    Oh, indeed, I suspect Netenyahu may have doomed Israel. What's worse is that the rest of the world may well just shrug at its destruction.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,641
    edited September 30
    MattW said:

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    It was 2013?

    I wondered where that had come from.

    The Mail sounds desperate.
    It was all over Sky news paper reviews with Sonia Sodha, former adviser to Ed Miliband, saying Lammy's comments live on TV was an unenforced error and exactly what the party need to avoid

    Actually both the paper reviewers were far from complimentary about Starmer’s speech maintaining it was to please the party activists in the conference and doubted the public at large, who only ever see news clips, would be as impressed
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    "Give your head a wobble"


    Hannah
    @GreenPartyHan

    Im proud to be English and even prouder to be British. But these flags right now are not showing patriotism- they are a show to intimidate our communities and cause division. If youre actually patriotic... Come and help make this country better. The organisations below... (cont)


    https://x.com/GreenPartyHan/status/1972965709119734242
  • TresTres Posts: 3,097
    Roger said:

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    Where there's smoke as every schoolboy knows.....
    bullingdon boys?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,506

    Talk about an irresponsible headline-

    https://news.sky.com/story/hurricanes-humberto-and-imelda-to-bring-heavy-rain-and-strong-winds-to-uk-13441437

    A glance at the headline suggests the UKmis about to be hit by two hurricanes. It is not.

    The weather geeks are creaming themselves over the Fujiwhara effect being exhibited by these two storms.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214

    MattW said:

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    It was 2013?

    I wondered where that had come from.

    The Mail sounds desperate.
    It was all over Sky news paper reviews with Sonia Sodha, former adviser to Ed Miliband, saying Lammy's comments live on TV was an unenforced error and exactly what the party need to avoid

    Actually both the paper reviewers were far from complimentary about Starmer’s speech maintaining it was to please the party activists in the conference and doubted the public at large, who only ever see news clips, would be as impressed
    Both Sky and the Beeb are under strict instructions not to call the racists racist. And to condemn those who do. Because we’re living down the big tech / MAGA rabbit hole, which is sad.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Yeah, he is telling his guys (and they are all guys now) to ignore it
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214

    Talk about an irresponsible headline-

    https://news.sky.com/story/hurricanes-humberto-and-imelda-to-bring-heavy-rain-and-strong-winds-to-uk-13441437

    A glance at the headline suggests the UKmis about to be hit by two hurricanes. It is not.

    The weather geeks are creaming themselves over the Fujiwhara effect being exhibited by these two storms.
    Tbf it is quite erotic
  • isamisam Posts: 42,732
    edited September 30
    Good sign off from Tom Peck in The Times

    It really isn’t that long ago that Starmer was promising “a politics that treads a little lighter on people’s lives”. Oh to have ever felt those light footsteps, even for just a day. They never came. Instead, it’s a fork in the road, and a long, gruelling battle ahead. Now, because the light stuff proved so far beyond him, we must apparently all do our bit and put in a very heavy shift indeed, which isn’t quite what we signed up for.

    It is conceivable Starmer may ultimately not be forgiven for never giving an exhausted country the boring, quiet, lightweight politics for which he is so perfectly suited, and which it so desperately craved.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/18a42a51-dee5-427a-831f-0322d9121d21?shareToken=095d8efae67118e26625152e7ee3f381
  • TimS said:

    MattW said:

    I see the Mail is whipping it's readers into a frenzy about Lammy's "crazy" comments on Farage's teenage fascist dabblings, and mentioning to none of them that these reports have been circulating for years online anyway, and as a result of Farage's ex-teacher at Dulwich college, not Labour.

    There are plenty of other stories about his far-right school days,too.

    It was 2013?

    I wondered where that had come from.

    The Mail sounds desperate.
    It was all over Sky news paper reviews with Sonia Sodha, former adviser to Ed Miliband, saying Lammy's comments live on TV was an unenforced error and exactly what the party need to avoid

    Actually both the paper reviewers were far from complimentary about Starmer’s speech maintaining it was to please the party activists in the conference and doubted the public at large, who only ever see news clips, would be as impressed
    Both Sky and the Beeb are under strict instructions not to call the racists racist. And to condemn those who do. Because we’re living down the big tech / MAGA rabbit hole, which is sad.
    Sonia Sodha is labour through and through and she was the one calling Lammy out

    Nothing to do with alleged Sky censorship
  • isamisam Posts: 42,732
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro

    Honestly, calling your opponents Racists and/or Hitler does seem a little desperate doesn’t it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,766
    edited September 30
    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
    I started reading about it, after watching The Leopard.

    Strange as it may seem, the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.
    Any recommemdations for a readablr and entertaining history of all this?
    The Pursuit of Italy - David Gilmour

    In The Shadow of Vesuvius - A Cultural History of Naples by Jordan Lancaster

    Harold Acton wrote the definitive 2- volume work on the Bourbons of Naples

    Naples '44 by Norman Lewis - an absolute must read. Brilliant about Naples and war.

    The Gallery by John Horne Burns - stories about war-time Naples. He really captures the essence of the city and soldiers' experience.

    Susan Sontag's novel The Volcano Lover about Sir William Hamilton, uncovering Pompei, Nelson and the short-lived Parthenopean Republic is very good.

    Naples 1944: War, Liberation and Chaos by Keith Lowe - came out last year - is excellent.

    Roberto Saviano - Gomorrah - about the Camorra will explain the rubbish problem, among others.

    Honestly - there is so much history, it's hard to find it all in one book. I'd start with the Gilmour one and definitely read Norman Lewis - he is such a brilliant writer.
  • Talk about an irresponsible headline-

    https://news.sky.com/story/hurricanes-humberto-and-imelda-to-bring-heavy-rain-and-strong-winds-to-uk-13441437

    A glance at the headline suggests the UKmis about to be hit by two hurricanes. It is not.

    The weather geeks are creaming themselves over the Fujiwhara effect being exhibited by these two storms.
    Fuji what???
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,443
    edited September 30
    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084
    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Yeah, he is telling his guys (and they are all guys now) to ignore it
    That's what he said he wanted in his book:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_on_Warriors#:~:text=He criticizes the Geneva Conventions,More casualties.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983
    Sean_F said:

    ...the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.

    The House of Peek Freans Digestivs, however, were held to be flaky under pressure, and never hob-nob'd with the crowd

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,641
    edited September 30
    nico67 said:

    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

    Yes and for four more years unfortunately

    I stand to be corrected but hasn't he got his own studio so he can provide an instant comment ?

    He is not going away and the more he is attacked the more he will respond

    As I said earlier when Badenoch was asked about Starmer v Farage she said it was like '2 boys scrapping in the playground'

    Next weekend is her chance to rise above this and set out a clear path and policies

    I will watch with interest what she says and how it is reported

    The door has been opened to her, let's see if she can step through it
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,663
    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Yeah, he is telling his guys (and they are all guys now) to ignore it
    They've been ignoring it for over 2 decades
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983

    WTF

    Why the f is UK head of Palantir on a newsnight panel of three discussing the main leader speech of a major political party.?

    The rest of the panel is deeply problematic as it is Abbot and Bragg. Both on the left

    Bring back Newsnight Review. We can have Allison Pearson, Tom Paulin, Tony Parsons, and Germaine Greer commentating on the news. I'm sure they'll be politically balanced :)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,464
    viewcode said:

    WTF

    Why the f is UK head of Palantir on a newsnight panel of three discussing the main leader speech of a major political party.?

    The rest of the panel is deeply problematic as it is Abbot and Bragg. Both on the left

    Bring back Newsnight Review. We can have Allison Pearson, Tom Paulin, Tony Parsons, and Germaine Greer commentating on the news. I'm sure they'll be politically balanced :)
    Ah Germaine Greer. I remember when she wrote that nonce book. How times change.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,797
    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Wikipedia disagrees

    The Geneva Conventions apply at times of war and armed conflict to governments who have ratified its terms.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Yeah, he is telling his guys (and they are all guys now) to ignore it
    They've been ignoring it for over 2 decades
    If they are arguing over whether to follow the Geneva rules then that is very good news as it means they are not arguing over whether their oath is to the constitution or fealty to Trump.

    At this point nothing matters more.

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,663
    isam said:


    …..


    He's defected to Reform?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro

    Honestly, calling your opponents Racists and/or Hitler does seem a little desperate doesn’t it?
    They need some more vigorous condemnation of Farage so that the new cycle moves on.

    Perhaps about his fake support for the working man, having voted against the Workers' Rights bill? Compared with his multimillionaire lineup at the top of Reform, his income, and their tax dodging activities?

    Or his sequence of lies fabrications about ... well ... everything. If they run out of these to point out, there'll be another one along by about Friday.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    ...the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.

    The House of Peek Freans Digestivs, however, were held to be flaky under pressure, and never hob-nob'd with the crowd

    The house of Jammy-Dodgers seem quite over-represented in our legislature down the years, however.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,214
    nico67 said:

    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

    Yes. Yes we are
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    edited September 30
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro

    Honestly, calling your opponents Racists and/or Hitler does seem a little desperate doesn’t it?
    Racist.


    It's quite easy though. So, there's that going for it. Even I managed it and I'm a clutz.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,084
    TimS said:

    nico67 said:

    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

    Yes. Yes we are
    He's a Kenti-sh Man, isn't he? He'll love English Country Whine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Wikipedia disagrees

    The Geneva Conventions apply at times of war and armed conflict to governments who have ratified its terms.
    I mean, law is essentially something we apply to ourselves or something others can impose on us, no law or right is technically 'universal' surely? It's just there are some things almost all nations ultimately sign up to (even if many do it with fingers crossed). If, however, various countries start openly withdrawing or ignoring such things, it's a much more dangerous world I would assume.

    As for the point about USA withdrawing from NATO, I don't think Trump and Vance have been very subtle about wanting to do that effectively, even if they don't get around to doing it officially.
  • Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Roger said:

    I've been catching up with a great deal of narrative surrounding Donald Trump's 20 point plan.

    Was it actually written by someone called Sir Anthony Charles Lynton-Blair?

    Asking for a friend.

    Dissolved into chaos on day one. Who would have guessed?
    But will that matter? The purpose is, with the backing of Arab states which is crucial, to trap Hamas, as Hamas are in a position where they cannot win.

    If Hamas say No, then USA/Israel have reasons, however bad, for fighting on until unconditional surrender and imposing an even worse deal on Gaza - including deportation and exile.
    If Hamas say Yes, then a process begins, however chaotic, in which they cannot win.
    Hamas can not win either way, it just depends how long it takes for them to surrender.

    Israel have reasons to fight on until Hamas surrender no matter what. Too many here think that a Palestinian death toll means that Israel needs to let Hamas cling on. That's not how war works, or ever has.
    I think that if Israel were motivated solely to destroy Hamas then they would be fighting in a different way and they would be dealing with the civilians in Gaza in a different way.

    Israeli actions are not those of a democratic state that sees Gazan civilians as separate from Hamas. You're in denial about how this war is being fought and what its objectives are.
    No, you are.

    Given how comprehensive the trashing of Hamas are, if Gazan civilians were being targeted the same way the death toll would be in the millions, not the thousands.
    Israel is just another murderous Middle Eastern regime.
    Its a democracy that is waging an existential war.

    If they were a fraction as evil of genocidal as most on here pretend, then there wouldn't be any Gazan civilians left. Israel has the weapons to do that quite quickly.

    So why aren't they? Are they just utterly incompetent at genocide, or are they not engaging in it?
    Perpetual war suits Netanyahu as much as it does Putin.
    Well then Hamas should really say screw you to Netanyahu and surrender and end the war then, shouldn't they?

    Perpetual war requires an enemy to be fighting against, which doesn't work if the enemy lays down their arms, or if genocide is committed against the enemy. It not only takes two to tango, but it can't be both genocide and perpetual war, its one or the other, which is it?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,986
    edited September 30
    nico67 said:

    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

    I think "hurty words" is the phrase you're looking for. "Snowflake" works too.

    Given how touchy Farage is I do think there is something in just winding him up all the time. The constant apoplexy makes him look a bit ridiculous.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    edited September 30
    TimS said:

    nico67 said:

    Lammy should be careful not to make accusations that don’t last a few hours and instead stick to the raft of things that Farage has said in the past .

    There’s plenty of material. As for Farage and his ridiculous rant . Are we going to get this pathetic whining and hysteria every time someone criticises him and his Reform policies ?

    Yes. Yes we are
    Snowflakes are found on left and right in abundance. If there's one thing that puts me off in politics it's histrionic rhetoric, which is unfortunate as parties love to get dramatic about stuff they criticise others for even if they do it themselves, so we see it a lot. 'They started it' never really works as a rejoinder either, even when it is true.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,222
    edited September 30
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Wikipedia disagrees

    The Geneva Conventions apply at times of war and armed conflict to governments who have ratified its terms.
    I mean, law is essentially something we apply to ourselves or something others can impose on us, no law or right is technically 'universal' surely? It's just there are some things almost all nations ultimately sign up to (even if many do it with fingers crossed). If, however, various countries start openly withdrawing or ignoring such things, it's a much more dangerous world I would assume.

    As for the point about USA withdrawing from NATO, I don't think Trump and Vance have been very subtle about wanting to do that effectively, even if they don't get around to doing it officially.
    Why is Hegseth fretting about the Geneva convention? What aspects of it are keeping him awake at nights?

    When they invade Greenland are they planning to ditch these basics?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983
    isam said:


    …..


    If you ignore the last line, you can sing that to "Raindrops and roses and whiskers on kittens" from "Mary Poppins"
  • isamisam Posts: 42,732
    MattW said:

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro

    Honestly, calling your opponents Racists and/or Hitler does seem a little desperate doesn’t it?
    They need some more vigorous condemnation of Farage so that the new cycle moves on.

    Perhaps about his fake support for the working man, having voted against the Workers' Rights bill? Compared with his multimillionaire lineup at the top of Reform, his income, and their tax dodging activities?

    Or his sequence of lies fabrications about ... well ... everything. If they run out of these to point out, there'll be another one along by about Friday.
    Unfortunately his view, that mass immigration has negatively affected the lives of millions of working class people in provincial Britain, is shared by millions of working class people in provincial Britain.

    When other politicians try to combat it with complex arguments, or invoke bills and clauses, people feel like they’re being gaslit and switch off. Others can can try to imitate his policies, but their hearts aren’t in that. He must be a fiendishly difficult character to take on.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    Having finally caught up on Keirs speech. I was reminded of this - which I find rather more inspiring :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNmxddPMU8Y

    " Joshua Idehen - Learn To Swim "
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lammy backtracks on Farage Hitler Youth claim"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn95q9j0yyro

    Honestly, calling your opponents Racists and/or Hitler does seem a little desperate doesn’t it?
    It's rarely a good idea. If someone is mainstream a Hitler reference will appear absurd to the general public (and Reform are obviously mainstream at this point), and if they are racist and yet are doing well in the polls then it's probably net neutral at best, since supporters won't wake up about it by the reference (or there's a lot of racists out there, which would be a different problem).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    My slightly bonkers but sometimes very insightful brother reckons Trump was telling the generals America is gonna withdraw from NATO

    🤷🏼‍♂️

    That's entirely possible, and a complete disaster for the US defence industry.
    Hegseth seemed to be saying that they had already withdrawn from the Geneva Convention, which is also not good news for US troops.
    AIUI it is universal law, so still applies.
    Wikipedia disagrees

    The Geneva Conventions apply at times of war and armed conflict to governments who have ratified its terms.
    I mean, law is essentially something we apply to ourselves or something others can impose on us, no law or right is technically 'universal' surely? It's just there are some things almost all nations ultimately sign up to (even if many do it with fingers crossed). If, however, various countries start openly withdrawing or ignoring such things, it's a much more dangerous world I would assume.

    As for the point about USA withdrawing from NATO, I don't think Trump and Vance have been very subtle about wanting to do that effectively, even if they don't get around to doing it officially.
    Why is Hegseth fretting about the Geneva convention? What aspects of it are keeping him awake at nights?
    The idea of accountability for anyone?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    edited September 30
    Hegseth's and Trump's speeches to the US top brass...

    Wow, just wow...

    It takes a lot for me to feel sorry for generals and admirals, but sitting through that stream of shit has done so.

    Time for a military coup before the purges start?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,455
    Foxy said:

    Hegseth's and Trump's speeches to the US top brass...

    Wow, just wow...

    It takes a lot for me to feel sorry for generals and admirals, but sitting through that stream of shit has done so.

    Time for a military coup before the purges start?

    Maybe the US military folk like that stuff - don't most police in america support Trump?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Hegseth's and Trump's speeches to the US top brass...

    Wow, just wow...

    It takes a lot for me to feel sorry for generals and admirals, but sitting through that stream of shit has done so.

    Time for a military coup before the purges start?

    Maybe the US military folk like that stuff - don't most police in america support Trump?
    The applause was deafening, and the standing ovation went on far too long.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,732
    This was Starmer’s actual quote. I know he’s trying to be patriotic, and no doubt there are examples of Farage employing this technique, but what do people saying this kind of thing think other countries are like? Sure these types of community behaviours are universal


  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,309
    isam said:

    This was Starmer’s actual quote. I know he’s trying to be patriotic, and no doubt there are examples of Farage employing this technique, but what do people saying this kind of thing think other countries are like? Sure these types of community behaviours are universal


    Fake. Like Theresa May pretending to be pro-Brexit. They always overcompensate.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,797
    isam said:

    This was Starmer’s actual quote. I know he’s trying to be patriotic, and no doubt there are examples of Farage employing this technique, but what do people saying this kind of thing think other countries are like? Sure these types of community behaviours are universal


    Damn, and I thought real Britain was colonising one third of the planet and subjugating millions.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 168
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Naples sitrep

    Pizza still the best in the world

    Coffee probably ditto

    City total chaos and mess almost everywhere. But safer than it was. But my god the litter and graffiti

    Still my favourite Italian city. Top 10 worldwide

    Decent chocolate too https://gay-odin.it/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Z5iRa5xXHldw2l1zFSoxjnpP0-tr3iHbx_oG6KsL3X-HJZUA
    I've already given him my polite request / order.

    Il quartiere spagnolo - named thus because it was where the Spanish soldiers where housed when the Spanish took over Naples. It was around this time that my mother's family came to Naples - the family name is Spanish, from the town in Spain where they came from, and many of the boy's first names have also been Spanish. The main street abutting this area was always known as Via Toledo (and still is by some) but was renamed Via Roma after unification.

    Neapolitan is not a dialect but a separate language and Neapolitan humour, theatre and life is hard to understand well without some knowledge of it. Listen to la Tamurriata Nera being sung - it's a world away from the Italy of Milan or Florence. Absolutely glorious, though, despite the subject matter -
    https://youtu.be/_U8Xp4IMG-I?si=ojrX56IlVr2EKGs3

    Waiting for yet another diagnostic test result - pancreas this time. 2025 is proving to be a bit of an annus horribilis.

    Still, I hope to be able to travel soon. See Naples and Die and so on.
    Best wishes.

    Italian unification was in reality, a conquest of The Two Sicilies, whose people had to be put down very brutally, by the House of Savoy.
    Yes, I know. My family are still cross about it. My grandparents took it as a personal insult and thought the House of Savoy to be rather vulgar arrivistes. What they thought of the Austrian bits of Italy doesn't bear repeating, even on here.
    I started reading about it, after watching The Leopard.

    Strange as it may seem, the House of Bourbon were quite popular, among their subjects.
    Any recommemdations for a readablr and entertaining history of all this?
    The Pursuit of Italy - David Gilmour

    In The Shadow of Vesuvius - A Cultural History of Naples by Jordan Lancaster

    Harold Acton wrote the definitive 2- volume work on the Bourbons of Naples

    Naples '44 by Norman Lewis - an absolute must read. Brilliant about Naples and war.

    The Gallery by John Horne Burns - stories about war-time Naples. He really captures the essence of the city and soldiers' experience.

    Susan Sontag's novel The Volcano Lover about Sir William Hamilton, uncovering Pompei, Nelson and the short-lived Parthenopean Republic is very good.

    Naples 1944: War, Liberation and Chaos by Keith Lowe - came out last year - is excellent.

    Roberto Saviano - Gomorrah - about the Camorra will explain the rubbish problem, among others.

    Honestly - there is so much history, it's hard to find it all in one book. I'd start with the Gilmour one and definitely read Norman Lewis - he is such a brilliant writer.
    'Restoration and Risorgimento: Italy 1796 - 1870' by David Laven is also worth a read - Laven is notable as being rather against the whole unification process.
    The 3-episode BBC radio programme 'The Invention of Italy' is also a very good introduction, starting with the 1494 French invasion and ending with the First World War.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,021
    London nightlife update: Soho buzzing on a random Tuesday night. Mind you, I think Soho would be buzzing even in the event of nuclear war.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983
    Gary Seconomics on why it is a stupid idea to call Reform voters racist

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oOb39unASUQ
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,007
    isam said:


    …..


    Labour will take you back to Britain of the 1970s.

    Crisis? What crisis?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    LOL....

    “We don’t have a military full of Nordic pagans.” — Secretary of War Pete Hegseth declares war on beards
    https://x.com/DiaperDiplomacy/status/1973171316707696911
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,995
    Fishing said:

    isam said:


    …..


    There is something deeply pathetic about an uncharismatic man trying to appear charismatic - I call that the "John Major problem".

    Just as there's something equally sad about an incompetent technocrat.

    Just as there's something totally phony about an Islington lefty pretending to understand patriotism.

    In fact what the f@ck is that man doing as Prime Minister?
    The Tory A team was tired and snagged out so the Tory B team had a turn.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193
    US government is officially shut down.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054

    Fishing said:

    isam said:


    …..


    There is something deeply pathetic about an uncharismatic man trying to appear charismatic - I call that the "John Major problem".

    Just as there's something equally sad about an incompetent technocrat.

    Just as there's something totally phony about an Islington lefty pretending to understand patriotism.

    In fact what the f@ck is that man doing as Prime Minister?
    The Tory A team was tired and snagged out so the Tory B team had a turn.
    A and B team, more like 3rd and 4th teams.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,054
    Sandpit said:

    US government is officially shut down.

    This is becoming as common occurrence as Belgium not having a government.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,193

    Sandpit said:

    US government is officially shut down.

    This is becoming as common occurrence as Belgium not having a government.
    It’s rather amusing to see the silly excuses they all come up with not to vote for a budget.

    The way the Senate works it’s going to be a regular occurrence since they need 60 votes - and no-one has had 60 votes since early Obama era.
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