Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
I am very sorry Mr Kirk succumbed to his injuries, but Johnson's intervention is inaccurate hyperbole. Why do you PBers hang on this arse's every word?
This is the weakness of Starmer, everyone can see he's done for but he won't swing the axe until after the weekend meaning it will drag on and damage his own reputation and the government's ratings for no gain.
Surely Mandy has to hang on until after the Trump bun fight next week.
Why
So as not to humiliate Trump who despite turning FBI informant over Epstein's crimes, may have once accidentally brushed past Epstein on Park Avenue.
Are we really worried about humiliating Trump rather than doing the right thing?
I suspect humiliating Trump would be very bad for us as a nation.
It is quite ironic that Trump gets to serves his full tern, and starts another in 2028 whilst the only casualties of Epstein (Epstein excepted) are a woman and a gay man. I am not defending the woman and the gay man, but just think on that for a moment.
And the sweaty nonce.
I am not sure he would have been a casualty had he not agreed to the Maitlis interview.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
There's a new single name detective show in town. Boris. He's solved the motive before finding a suspect. Huzzah!! Now he's time to pull some birds.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
Thanks. I’m very weak on 80s and 90’s. After cool styles and music in 60s and 70s, the 80s seemed like an aberration I never delved into to investigate.
In the 1980s we at least had a US President who stood up to Russia!
This is the weakness of Starmer, everyone can see he's done for but he won't swing the axe until after the weekend meaning it will drag on and damage his own reputation and the government's ratings for no gain.
Surely Mandy has to hang on until after the Trump bun fight next week.
Why
So as not to humiliate Trump who despite turning FBI informant over Epstein's crimes, may have once accidentally brushed past Epstein on Park Avenue.
Are we really worried about humiliating Trump rather than doing the right thing?
I suspect humiliating Trump would be very bad for us as a nation.
It is quite ironic that Trump gets to serves his full tern, and starts another in 2028 whilst the only casualties of Epstein (Epstein excepted) are a woman and a gay man. I am not defending the woman and the gay man, but just think on that for a moment.
And the sweaty nonce.
I am not sure he would have been a casualty had he not agreed to the Maitlis interview.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
Thanks. I’m very weak on 80s and 90’s. After cool styles and music in 60s and 70s, the 80s seemed like an aberration I never delved into to investigate.
In the 1980s we at least had a US President who stood up to Russia!
It said to do so in his que card.
But it actually didn't. Whatever your opinion of Ronnie, he was profoundly and unashamedly anti -Soviet. And he could read an autocue like no other.
Charlie Kirk's murder is America's story. Like others downthread, I knew the name but I thought he was a middle aged Fox News anchor....
What I will say is that its quite an unusual range kill in the USA, accurate and the killer appears to have had an exit from somewhere that had at least some security. I think you can safely assume they are a bit better than the average American with a gun.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Of course he is doing a Truss.
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
I think you have to divide the Eighties into two parts. Up to about '84 hair was short (long hair being associated with being a hippie, male of female). Big hair and perms came in the second half of the eighties, and was rarely the long straight styles favoured either in the late sixties (think young Cher or Joan Baez) but rather permed or teased upwards.
Well yes, but as ever there are subtleties. There was about 79-83 (curly perms), 83-88 (what people usually think of the Eighties), then you had Manchester and Baggy around 88-89. You also have to bring in Princess Di, with epically styled hair. Plus there was the class thing, with the short hair being more among the working people? I'll try and dig out that advert with the girl in the fur coat.
Edit 2: We seem to have forgotten Margaret Thatcher, who entered govt in 1979 looking like a normal person and peaked in around 1987 looking like Boudicca and - yes - sculpted hair
I don’t like the hair in that advert at all. It’s like a hat in the distance shots. If you say it’s good as you can see the whole face, I would argue that is the problem, it’s 110% more sexy with hair concealing. You could roll her forehead over the court if it rained at Wimbledon, there was so much of it. Its archetypal eighties alright, and serving as lesson never to try it again.
Brrrrrrrr it was like a trailer for next series of Rivals
It was shot by David Bailey. One of his two best ads
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
I think you have to divide the Eighties into two parts. Up to about '84 hair was short (long hair being associated with being a hippie, male of female). Big hair and perms came in the second half of the eighties, and was rarely the long straight styles favoured either in the late sixties (think young Cher or Joan Baez) but rather permed or teased upwards.
Well yes, but as ever there are subtleties. There was about 79-83 (curly perms), 83-88 (what people usually think of the Eighties), then you had Manchester and Baggy around 88-89. You also have to bring in Princess Di, with epically styled hair. Plus there was the class thing, with the short hair being more among the working people? I'll try and dig out that advert with the girl in the fur coat.
Edit 2: We seem to have forgotten Margaret Thatcher, who entered govt in 1979 looking like a normal person and peaked in around 1987 looking like Boudicca and - yes - sculpted hair
I don’t like the hair in that advert at all. It’s like a hat in the distance shots. If you say it’s good as you can see the whole face, I would argue that is the problem, it’s 110% more sexy with hair concealing. You could roll her forehead over the court if it rained at Wimbledon, there was so much of it. Its archetypal eighties alright, and serving as lesson never to try it again.
Brrrrrrrr it was like a trailer for next series of Rivals
It was shot by David Bailey. One of his two best ads
.......and his best (most successful) ad was this one
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
I think you have to divide the Eighties into two parts. Up to about '84 hair was short (long hair being associated with being a hippie, male of female). Big hair and perms came in the second half of the eighties, and was rarely the long straight styles favoured either in the late sixties (think young Cher or Joan Baez) but rather permed or teased upwards.
Well yes, but as ever there are subtleties. There was about 79-83 (curly perms), 83-88 (what people usually think of the Eighties), then you had Manchester and Baggy around 88-89. You also have to bring in Princess Di, with epically styled hair. Plus there was the class thing, with the short hair being more among the working people? I'll try and dig out that advert with the girl in the fur coat.
Edit 2: We seem to have forgotten Margaret Thatcher, who entered govt in 1979 looking like a normal person and peaked in around 1987 looking like Boudicca and - yes - sculpted hair
I don’t like the hair in that advert at all. It’s like a hat in the distance shots. If you say it’s good as you can see the whole face, I would argue that is the problem, it’s 110% more sexy with hair concealing. You could roll her forehead over the court if it rained at Wimbledon, there was so much of it. Its archetypal eighties alright, and serving as lesson never to try it again.
Brrrrrrrr it was like a trailer for next series of Rivals
It was shot by David Bailey. One of his two best ads
.......and his best (most successful) ad was this one
This is the weakness of Starmer, everyone can see he's done for but he won't swing the axe until after the weekend meaning it will drag on and damage his own reputation and the government's ratings for no gain.
Surely Mandy has to hang on until after the Trump bun fight next week.
Why
So as not to humiliate Trump who despite turning FBI informant over Epstein's crimes, may have once accidentally brushed past Epstein on Park Avenue.
Are we really worried about humiliating Trump rather than doing the right thing?
I suspect humiliating Trump would be very bad for us as a nation.
It is quite ironic that Trump gets to serves his full tern, and starts another in 2028 whilst the only casualties of Epstein (Epstein excepted) are a woman and a gay man. I am not defending the woman and the gay man, but just think on that for a moment.
And the sweaty nonce.
I am not sure he would have been a casualty had he not agreed to the Maitlis interview.
@KevinASchofield BREAKING: Bridget Phillipson easily gets more than 80 nominations to put her into the next round of the Labour deputy leadership election.
Easy to call it. Just like the Liz Truss election, Useless Lucy gets into next phase the Unions and Labour Members will place a tiara of Deputy Leadership on her head. Though they will have to watch out for the dandruff.
Did you see Phillipson speaking at the TUC? She has it in the bag.
Doesn’t matter what she said or how she said it, the one with zero personality is the Starmer candidate and this is “a balls to you and your reshuffle Starmer” election for the vast majority of Union and Party Members.
This is a betting site, and I’m calling it already in the bag for useless Lucy.
Powell is the one with personality?
It’s a close call, but Phillipson is one unique kind of personality vacuum.
Who has the better hair in your estimation? I think Powell.
Phillipson has a rather strong resemblance to Mary from "Our Friends in the North". I wonder how much of this is conscious.
Mary from Our Friends in the North?
Not even close. Try Wendolene Ramsbottom.
As for Powell, I’ll defer detailed comment except to say, I don’t think she even owns a hair brush. I don’t mean that in a mean way, it’s, looking at pictures from throughout her career, she seems comfortable beneath however it’s looking.
Also, in a run off of Tory faithful, pre shredding his credibility Rishi Sunak cannot possibly be thumped in leadership election by Liz Truss? Ditto for this Labour Leadership contest - the unions and Labour members are the electorate.
It would be oddly satisfying if the LDL election boils down to two long-haired women fighting over a hair brush.
Phillipson has more of a long bob.
I think she would come over as a bit more empathetic with a pixie cut.
A long bob looks too severe. Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament.
“Stella Creasy has the best haircut in Parliament”
Not even in top 20. It’s like an 80s pop star, where I think the idea was to look boyish and not girly. Styled by the Animus, I shall call it. Is that your thing Foxy? Was that the era you came of age perhaps?
Not quite. If you omit those who embraced androgyny like Annie Lennox, the goal was Big Hair, as new hair products entered the market and hair could be as sculpted or as large as you wanted. Look at "Working Girl" (1988?) where the hair is huge. There was also the curly perm, Ioved by many women and Kevin Keegan - see "Flashdance" as an example. Fashions in the early Eighties were also sculpted, with boiler suits and padded shoulders. Basically it was anything you could draw with a ruler
I think you have to divide the Eighties into two parts. Up to about '84 hair was short (long hair being associated with being a hippie, male of female). Big hair and perms came in the second half of the eighties, and was rarely the long straight styles favoured either in the late sixties (think young Cher or Joan Baez) but rather permed or teased upwards.
Well yes, but as ever there are subtleties. There was about 79-83 (curly perms), 83-88 (what people usually think of the Eighties), then you had Manchester and Baggy around 88-89. You also have to bring in Princess Di, with epically styled hair. Plus there was the class thing, with the short hair being more among the working people? I'll try and dig out that advert with the girl in the fur coat.
Edit 2: We seem to have forgotten Margaret Thatcher, who entered govt in 1979 looking like a normal person and peaked in around 1987 looking like Boudicca and - yes - sculpted hair
I don’t like the hair in that advert at all. It’s like a hat in the distance shots. If you say it’s good as you can see the whole face, I would argue that is the problem, it’s 110% more sexy with hair concealing. You could roll her forehead over the court if it rained at Wimbledon, there was so much of it. Its archetypal eighties alright, and serving as lesson never to try it again.
Brrrrrrrr it was like a trailer for next series of Rivals
It was shot by David Bailey. One of his two best ads
.......and his best (most successful) ad was this one
Charlie Kirk's murder is America's story. Like others downthread, I knew the name but I thought he was a middle aged Fox News anchor....
What I will say is that its quite an unusual range kill in the USA, accurate and the killer appears to have had an exit from somewhere that had at least some security. I think you can safely assume they are a bit better than the average American with a gun.
It does call into question how you can hold any outdoor political event in the USA in the current climate .
Charlie Kirk's murder is America's story. Like others downthread, I knew the name but I thought he was a middle aged Fox News anchor....
What I will say is that its quite an unusual range kill in the USA, accurate and the killer appears to have had an exit from somewhere that had at least some security. I think you can safely assume they are a bit better than the average American with a gun.
It does call into question how you can hold any outdoor political event in the USA in the current climate .
You just have to continue, otherwise you really are giving in. Most events go off without incident.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
The USA is a church society whereas the UK is a pub society.
Somehow, if I can picture Jesus - he'd have been necking a glass in the pub and spreading cheer (and likely peanuts and crisps) rather than being righteous and pious in a Church.
In most villages the church and the pub should equally be the heart of the community and Jesus was too busy doing good works to spend all day drinking, though he may have gone there for lunch or dinner with his disciples
This is the weakness of Starmer, everyone can see he's done for but he won't swing the axe until after the weekend meaning it will drag on and damage his own reputation and the government's ratings for no gain.
Surely Mandy has to hang on until after the Trump bun fight next week.
Why
So as not to humiliate Trump who despite turning FBI informant over Epstein's crimes, may have once accidentally brushed past Epstein on Park Avenue.
Are we really worried about humiliating Trump rather than doing the right thing?
I suspect humiliating Trump would be very bad for us as a nation.
It is quite ironic that Trump gets to serves his full tern, and starts another in 2028 whilst the only casualties of Epstein (Epstein excepted) are a woman and a gay man. I am not defending the woman and the gay man, but just think on that for a moment.
And the sweaty nonce.
I am not sure he would have been a casualty had he not agreed to the Maitlis interview.
"House Moment of Silence for Kirk Descends Into Partisan Strife After a moment of silence to honor Charlie Kirk, Republicans and Democrats began shouting partisan insults at each other." (£)
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
Dan Hannan, Peter Hitchens, most GB news presenters, even Clarkson or Kelvin McKenzie
- I can vaguely imagine myself trying to legally save tax in the transfer of assets to my children and making a mistake meaning I underpaid stamp duty. I mean, I would try not toz but I can see how it happens. Doing the same thing a year later wouldn't have been liable for stamp duty, so it's no great moral outage but a technical rule breach.
- I cannot imagine myself being friends with and conversing with a convicted paedophile. Not to state the obvious, but that should be morally repulsive to any normal person.
Starmer has somehow found himself being a stickler for the rules on a minor tax matter, but a supporter of someone associated with far more serious offenses. It's like he doesn't understand that some things go beyond strict legal liability.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
Dan Hannan, Peter Hitchens, most GB news presenters, even Clarkson or Kelvin McKenzie
None of those are "centered in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.".
Nor did any build their following but setting up an organisation to proselytise on college campuses.
UK politics doesn't really have an equivalent of that US style conservatism, and we are better for it.
Possibly a nearer thing (and it's still not really comparable) might be Tommy Robinson.
In a display of unity across the political aisle, the Young Democrats of Connecticut and Connecticut Young Republicans have issued a joint statement offering prayers for Charlie Kirk and condemning political violence: https://x.com/MikeCerulliCT/status/1965877628881220076
When the NBC correspondent Ryan Nobles asked, “Then, by that logic, do Republicans own the shooting of the two Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota? Isn’t this on both sides?”, Mace replied: “Are you kidding me?”
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
- I can vaguely imagine myself trying to legally save tax in the transfer of assets to my children and making a mistake meaning I underpaid stamp duty. I mean, I would try not toz but I can see how it happens. Doing the same thing a year later wouldn't have been liable for stamp duty, so it's no great moral outage but a technical rule breach.
- I cannot imagine myself being friends with and conversing with a convicted paedophile. Not to state the obvious, but that should be morally repulsive to any normal person.
Starmer has somehow found himself being a stickler for the rules on a minor tax matter, but a supporter of someone associated with far more serious offenses. It's like he doesn't understand that some things go beyond strict legal liability.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Of course he is doing a Truss.
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
Or indeed a Blair or a Brown both of whom made a fortune on the American lecture circuit, although funnily enough you don't mention them.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
The USA is a church society whereas the UK is a pub society.
Somehow, if I can picture Jesus - he'd have been necking a glass in the pub and spreading cheer (and likely peanuts and crisps) rather than being righteous and pious in a Church.
In most villages the church and the pub should equally be the heart of the community and Jesus was too busy doing good works to spend all day drinking, though he may have gone there for lunch or dinner with his disciples
You do have a great deal of certainty about think of which you cannot know
(And @ohnotnow never said he would have been drinking “all day”. You made that bit up)
This is probably true, and the centre and the centre left will be punished for it. Remarkably it was the right (specifically Boris Johnson) that ramped up UK immigration. Political genius really.
Who are these "liberals" who don't understand?
I mean really? Are they living under a rock?
The explosion in anger is all over the place.
Come to London, literally all I hear from some of my friends and colleagues is how misunderstood immigration statistics are and how it's good that net migration was +2m over the last 3 years because it keeps prices down. No matter that they all own their own homes and have well above average salaries. I think the only thing about immigration you can get out of them that might be aligned with the rest of the country is that we should change the law to be able to deport convicted criminals. Most don't even want to deport the boat arrivals and some have been saying we should have more.
Anyone who lives in the London bubble is going to be rudely awakened at the next election if Labour don't stop the boats and deport the criminals.
Yes - but your own reaction is from the a different, contrasting, London bubble that you (and perhaps others) live in.
There's no end of bubbles, each self-referential, each with their own pomposity, and their own values.
The Westminster Bubble is one of the more pernicious.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Of course he is doing a Truss.
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
Or indeed a Blair or a Brown both of whom made a fortune on the American lecture circuit, although funnily enough you don't mention them.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
The USA is a church society whereas the UK is a pub society.
Somehow, if I can picture Jesus - he'd have been necking a glass in the pub and spreading cheer (and likely peanuts and crisps) rather than being righteous and pious in a Church.
In most villages the church and the pub should equally be the heart of the community and Jesus was too busy doing good works to spend all day drinking, though he may have gone there for lunch or dinner with his disciples
With his water into wine routine, Jesus was never going to be popular with most pub landlords...
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
The USA is a church society whereas the UK is a pub society.
Somehow, if I can picture Jesus - he'd have been necking a glass in the pub and spreading cheer (and likely peanuts and crisps) rather than being righteous and pious in a Church.
In most villages the church and the pub should equally be the heart of the community and Jesus was too busy doing good works to spend all day drinking, though he may have gone there for lunch or dinner with his disciples
With his water into wine routine, Jesus was never going to be popular with most pub landlords...
Not just a bottle or two either, roughly 120 gallons of wine of good quality. That was after the usual supply was finished.
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
I had heard of Charlie Kirk, but knew little about him. Looking at Wikipedia, his politics were very far away from mine. He espoused views that were, in my own view, negative, nasty and selfish.
That does not mean I applaud what happened. But neither shall I mourn him: he saw some gun deaths as the cost of the second amendment. Like many of his persuasion, the countless mass shootings that occur in the USA each year did not matter. What mattered was the right to bear arms; and that same right may well have led indirectly to his own death.
The people I will pray for are his wife and kids. They were apparently there, and no-one - especially children - should see a family member murdered.
America is becoming increasingly divided, and yesterday's events will do nothing to bring the country together. Neither will it, I fear, progress much-needed gun control. This killing, along with the attempted assassination of Trump last year, should show right-wingers that no systems or checks can keep them safe with the current laws. Only a change in law and more gun control can.
And that was anathema to Charlie Kirk. I hope his legacy is something he would have hated.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Of course he is doing a Truss.
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
Or indeed a Blair or a Brown both of whom made a fortune on the American lecture circuit, although funnily enough you don't mention them.
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
Boris Johnson @BorisJohnson The murder of Charlie Kirk is a tragedy, and a sign of the utter desperation and cowardice of those who could not defeat him in argument. Charlie Kirk has been killed not for espousing extremist views - because he didn’t. He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense. He has been killed because he had the courage to stand up publicly for reasonable opinions held by millions and millions of ordinary people both in the US and Britain. The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
Is that for real . What a load of guff . And Bozo doesn’t know the motive and is just jumping on the Maga bandwagon .
Of course he is doing a Truss.
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
Or indeed a Blair or a Brown both of whom made a fortune on the American lecture circuit, although funnily enough you don't mention them.
A reminder of what the president was advocating just last week .
Interesting that the President was identifying himself with a grotesquely incompetent idiot.
“ I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell? The whole hill. Smelled like... victory.”
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
Did he ?
Never heard of him before yesterday.
Any links ?
Video of Reddit of him saying:
"I think it's worth having the cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every single year so we can have the second amendment to protect our other God given rights"
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility." https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Charlie Kirk founded Turning Point, which provided buses to get rioters to the Capitol on Jan 6 2001, he spoke of how gay people should be stoned to death, and how black people in America were better off under slavery and Jim Crow. He supported political violence, not civility.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
And George W Bush never says that he was.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
I oppose all political violence. Charlie Kirk did not. He was an advocate of it.
Did he ?
Never heard of him before yesterday.
Any links ?
Video of Reddit of him saying:
"I think it's worth having the cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every single year so we can have the second amendment to protect our other God given rights"
That’s not promoting violence, he’s not advocating for gun deaths or supporting them, just saying it’s a downside to the second amendment.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
Dan Hannan, Peter Hitchens, most GB news presenters, even Clarkson or Kelvin McKenzie
None of those are "centered in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.".
Nor did any build their following but setting up an organisation to proselytise on college campuses.
UK politics doesn't really have an equivalent of that US style conservatism, and we are better for it.
Possibly a nearer thing (and it's still not really comparable) might be Tommy Robinson.
Maga is not centered on "Evangelical Christianity"; that is just a skin, and they have put it through a filter to exclude the parts that don't fit with an "America first" worldview. Recall how frightened and vicious Trump and Vance were when Bishop Budde reminded them that "mercy" and 'caring for the refugee' are Christian (and Evangelical Christian) values.
Evangelical Christianity has gone through a filter in Maga in the same way as the Dutch Reformed Church ended up justifying apartheid - the tradition of say Hegseth is similar, embracing women as subservient and so on. There' an 'intellectual' justification too, which is easier to fall for in the American context - Manifest Destiny and the rest of the self-justifying garbage, which is met even amongst liberals ("the USA is the best country in the world" etc).
Remember that Martin Luther King was an Evangelical Christian (Baptist Minister); it's never as simple as we would like.
On UK equivalents, I'd go for someone more intellectual than a street thug like Tommy Robinson, since Turning Point targets universities and young adults. Perhaps a better equivalent is Matt Gooodwin or someone attached to Natcon or in the Free Speech Union or anti-abortion circles. There's a whole zoo of Right-fringe organisations trying to be intellectual, but I don't know any figures who have made it.
I don't know eg a younger version of Douglas Murray. Most of the Evangelicals on the political right in the UK do not seem to go down that route, and pull back towards more useful emphases (eg Steve Barclay); they sort of self-triangulate and avoid the rabbit hole.
Trying to work out who if anyone in the UK is the equivalent of Kirk, Walsh and Shapiro.
Tommy perhaps. Katie. Owen.
Okay not too tricky.
I don't think there is a British equivalent really. Kirk fancied himself as a debater and intellectual, rather than the street agitator style of Robinson. British Right Wing Populism doesn't have the intellectual foundations of MAGA, centered as it is in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.
Dan Hannan, Peter Hitchens, most GB news presenters, even Clarkson or Kelvin McKenzie
None of those are "centered in Evangelical Christianity, Guns and White supremacy.".
Nor did any build their following but setting up an organisation to proselytise on college campuses.
UK politics doesn't really have an equivalent of that US style conservatism, and we are better for it.
Possibly a nearer thing (and it's still not really comparable) might be Tommy Robinson.
Maga is not centered on "Evangelical Christianity"; that is just a skin, and they have put it through a filter to exclude the parts that don't fit with an "America first" worldview. Recall how frightened and vicious Trump and Vance were when Bishop Budde reminded them that "mercy" and 'caring for the refugee' are Christian (and Evangelical Christian) values.
Evangelical Christianity has gone through a filter in Maga in the same way as the Dutch Reformed Church ended up justifying apartheid - the tradition of say Hegseth is similar, embracing women as subservient and so on. There' an 'intellectual' justification too, which is easier to fall for in the American context - Manifest Destiny and the rest of the self-justifying garbage, which is met even amongst liberals ("the USA is the best country in the world" etc).
Remember that Martin Luther King was an Evangelical Christian (Baptist Minister); it's never as simple as we would like.
On UK equivalents, I'd go for someone more intellectual than a street thug like Tommy Robinson, since Turning Point targets universities and young adults. Perhaps a better equivalent is Matt Gooodwin or someone attached to Natcon or in the Free Speech Union or anti-abortion circles. There's a whole zoo of Right-fringe organisations trying to be intellectual, but I don't know any figures who have made it to a wider audience.
I don't know eg a younger version of Douglas Murray. Most of the Evangelicals on the political right in the UK do not seem to go down that route, and pull back towards more useful emphases; they sort of self-triangulate and avoid the rabbit hole.
Comments
He's solved the motive before finding a suspect.
Huzzah!!
Now he's time to pull some birds.
Whatever your opinion of Ronnie, he was profoundly and unashamedly anti -Soviet. And he could read an autocue like no other.
A tip off from one John Borisson no doubt.
What I will say is that its quite an unusual range kill in the USA, accurate and the killer appears to have had an exit from somewhere that had at least some security. I think you can safely assume they are a bit better than the average American with a gun.
But since they're doing such a wonderful job themselves, why bother?
The lucrative speaking gigs are in telling American audiences what they want to hear. Tell them that Britain (and Europe generally) has fallen to the deep state and shadowy rootless cosmopolitans seeking white genocide. Bank the bucks and on to the next Cincinnati.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=david+bailey+fur+ad#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:625531eb,vid:7bENxfu4k28,st:0
https://www.jezebel.com/we-paid-some-etsy-witches-to-curse-charlie-kirk
The pumping music, glamour and blood - spookily like The Substance.
"So, did my Etsy curses work? Time will tell."
Spooky.
"I think empathy is a made up New Age term that does a lot of damage."
Charlie Kirk.
Go on. I'll be the bigger man.
One might even say the Alpha.
After a moment of silence to honor Charlie Kirk, Republicans and Democrats began shouting partisan insults at each other." (£)
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/10/us/charlie-kirk-house-republicans-democrats.html
Nor did any build their following but setting up an organisation to proselytise on college campuses.
UK politics doesn't really have an equivalent of that US style conservatism, and we are better for it.
Possibly a nearer thing (and it's still not really comparable) might be Tommy Robinson.
https://x.com/MikeCerulliCT/status/1965877628881220076
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/sep/10/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-tariffs-immigration-crime-us-politics-live-news-updates
In Washington, Republican congresswoman Nancy Mace walked up to reporters before Kirk’s death was confirmed and said: “Democrats own what happened today. I am devastated. My kids have called panicking. They, probably all the kids of every conservative in the country called panicking. Just because you speak your mind on an issue doesn’t mean you get shot.”
When the NBC correspondent Ryan Nobles asked, “Then, by that logic, do Republicans own the shooting of the two Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota? Isn’t this on both sides?”, Mace replied: “Are you kidding me?”
Partying like it’s 1999 in some corners of it,
"Today, a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happened on a college campus, where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies; they are our fellow citizens. May God bless Charlie Kirk and his family, and may God guide America toward civility."
https://x.com/TheBushCenter/status/1965912789328830561
Same here. I’d heard of Turning Point. Barking right wingers. But not Kirk.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/the-100-000-speeches-that-help-to-pay-the-blair-mortgage-0h863f9dxwk
Is it just lefties that are allowed to make a fortune by sucking up to America?
(And @ohnotnow never said he would have been drinking “all day”. You made that bit up)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7dgd394kno
There's no end of bubbles, each self-referential, each with their own pomposity, and their own values.
The Westminster Bubble is one of the more pernicious.
$60 million net worth.
Even at a big wedding it is a major booze up.
It is sad that he was killed but the idea that he was some sort of Gandhi is nonsense.
That does not mean I applaud what happened. But neither shall I mourn him: he saw some gun deaths as the cost of the second amendment. Like many of his persuasion, the countless mass shootings that occur in the USA each year did not matter. What mattered was the right to bear arms; and that same right may well have led indirectly to his own death.
The people I will pray for are his wife and kids. They were apparently there, and no-one - especially children - should see a family member murdered.
America is becoming increasingly divided, and yesterday's events will do nothing to bring the country together. Neither will it, I fear, progress much-needed gun control. This killing, along with the attempted assassination of Trump last year, should show right-wingers that no systems or checks can keep them safe with the current laws. Only a change in law and more gun control can.
And that was anathema to Charlie Kirk. I hope his legacy is something he would have hated.
But it will not.
Mrs Thatcher, perhaps, in the modern era. Bang out your memoirs and hop on a plane.
Blair did take it to new levels, although I understand a lot of his money came from points east as well as the US.
Just that political violence has no place in the public square
Do you disagree?
👍
Never heard of him before yesterday.
Any links ?
Guess who helped him with initial contacts?
The MAGA marches with calm, steady step.
“ I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell? The whole hill. Smelled like... victory.”
NEW THREAD
"I think it's worth having the cost of unfortunately some gun deaths every single year so we can have the second amendment to protect our other God given rights"
Ironic really.
Evangelical Christianity has gone through a filter in Maga in the same way as the Dutch Reformed Church ended up justifying apartheid - the tradition of say Hegseth is similar, embracing women as subservient and so on. There' an 'intellectual' justification too, which is easier to fall for in the American context - Manifest Destiny and the rest of the self-justifying garbage, which is met even amongst liberals ("the USA is the best country in the world" etc).
Remember that Martin Luther King was an Evangelical Christian (Baptist Minister); it's never as simple as we would like.
On UK equivalents, I'd go for someone more intellectual than a street thug like Tommy Robinson, since Turning Point targets universities and young adults. Perhaps a better equivalent is Matt Gooodwin or someone attached to Natcon or in the Free Speech Union or anti-abortion circles. There's a whole zoo of Right-fringe organisations trying to be intellectual, but I don't know any figures who have made it.
I don't know eg a younger version of Douglas Murray. Most of the Evangelicals on the political right in the UK do not seem to go down that route, and pull back towards more useful emphases (eg Steve Barclay); they sort of self-triangulate and avoid the rabbit hole.
Evangelical Christianity has gone through a filter in Maga in the same way as the Dutch Reformed Church ended up justifying apartheid - the tradition of say Hegseth is similar, embracing women as subservient and so on. There' an 'intellectual' justification too, which is easier to fall for in the American context - Manifest Destiny and the rest of the self-justifying garbage, which is met even amongst liberals ("the USA is the best country in the world" etc).
Remember that Martin Luther King was an Evangelical Christian (Baptist Minister); it's never as simple as we would like.
On UK equivalents, I'd go for someone more intellectual than a street thug like Tommy Robinson, since Turning Point targets universities and young adults. Perhaps a better equivalent is Matt Gooodwin or someone attached to Natcon or in the Free Speech Union or anti-abortion circles. There's a whole zoo of Right-fringe organisations trying to be intellectual, but I don't know any figures who have made it to a wider audience.
I don't know eg a younger version of Douglas Murray. Most of the Evangelicals on the political right in the UK do not seem to go down that route, and pull back towards more useful emphases; they sort of self-triangulate and avoid the rabbit hole.