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Once again Reform voters show they are massive outliers – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,611
edited August 6 in General
Once again Reform voters show they are massive outliers – politicalbetting.com

A year on, how do Britons think the legal system has treated those who took part in the 2024 riots?Fairly: 41%Unfairly: 26%By 2024 voteLabour: 59% fairlyLib Dem: 44%Conservative: 44%Reform UK: 16% yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,455
    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,136
    Farage needs to concentrate on the two tier, hurty words lines, and not blanket support for mindless violence. Compare and contrast with other criminals, that sort of thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,717
    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Gosh, I'm feeling sorry for the Lammys already.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,926
    Both Labour and the Tories will nail this with their tip top comms policy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,757
    edited August 6
    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,717
    On topic:

    Farage will deal with it by decrying them as an unrepresentative minority.

    And he will get away with it because the media love him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,177
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Yes, I have

    It’s from the genre of “Japan takes over the world” books.

    People extrapolated Japanese growth as inevitable and forever. Hence by lunchtime tomorrow they will run the entire world.

    They also credited them with brilliant long term planning - taking over whole industries by undercutting the West with cheaper products.

    A big theme is Westerners who sell out to the Japanese for immediate gain.

    Remind you of anything?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,736
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Watched the film with Sean Connery, wasn’t anything special but a fair thriller. Funny watching a lot of films from that sort of period how Japan was seen as a huge threat to the US through business and finance. Japan very rarely seems to figure these days in Hollywood as the bad guys.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    For those interested in the pharma industry (which ought to be anyone with a real interest in the economy), this is a very good piece of history from the last couple of decades.

    The Day Novartis Chose Discovery
    How a Swiss pharma giant built the last great corporate research skunkworks - and why that model may never work again.
    https://www.alexkesin.com/p/the-day-novartis-chose-discovery

    Europe had a biopharma equivalent of Bell Labs. Sadly no more.

    Interesting. I worked in a relatively senior position in Novartis up to 1997 and knew Vasella a bit - he was seen as determined and effective but not especially revolutionary. In principle I don't see from the article why in-house research should automatically be better than buying in the most successful external research (which will always be vastly larger than any one company), though it's obviously more satisfying to choose the research lines internally. What am I missing?
    Hi Nick.

    The point is that the research setup gave them the freedom to pursue promising biological targets, unconstrained by market analysis. And it was very generously funded.
    In-house was necessary to that, but that particular policy of research freedom on that scale was (and is) pretty rare in the industry.

    There's no reason at all why in-house in general should be automatically better than buying in research - and indeed it isn't.

    If you look at the number of NCEs going into the clinic today, Europe and the UK's share has fallen massively compared with the US and China.
    We simply don't have the scale of market funding for, or numbers of independent biotech companies coming up with novel stuff that they have. Big Pharma cutting back on research has compounded that disparity.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,717
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    Well, JD Vance is what we call up in Staffs a Tristram,* who has extreme right views and on his own admission works for a Nazi.

    And David Lammy is non-white** and undoubtedly one of the Woke, although hardly one of the Wokest.

    He's also an Anglican and Vance is a rather esoteric Catholic.

    So they are going to have in common - what, exactly?

    *After Tristram Hunt, former MP for Stoke Central and all round Tristram.
    **Yes, I know Mrs Vance is also non-white. She is also not African.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495
    Racist scumbags think racist scumbags were treated too harshly? Well I never.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Gosh, I'm feeling sorry for the Lammys already.
    They get on well, reportedly, having "bonded" over their difficult childhoods
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,757
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,717
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Gosh, I'm feeling sorry for the Lammys already.
    They get on well, reportedly, having "bonded" over their difficult childhoods
    Really? I am surprised to hear it for the reasons I give above.

    I still feel sorry for the Lammys...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,717
    Andy_JS said:
    I don't have my VPN on so I can't watch a lot of tits.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    And have said quite nice things about each other, more recently.
    It's an odd relationship, but I get the impression it's not entirely fiction.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    And have said quite nice things about each other, more recently.
    It's an odd relationship, but I get the impression it's not entirely fiction.
    Both are lawyers.

    Lammy read law at Harvard and Vance read law at Yale.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,452
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Weirdly yes, and seen the film based on the book. It's very 90's and the tech is very dated. The author Michael Crichton was a technothriller writer that wasn't as good as Tom Clancy but compensated by adding contemporary concerns to his plots. Scared by Japan rising? Rising Sun! Scared by DNA manipulation? Jurassic Park! Scared by women in jobs? Disclosure! And so on.

    If you want one of his better books, then Andromeda Strain or Jurassic Park are better.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,177
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Weirdly yes, and seen the film based on the book. It's very 90's and the tech is very dated. The author Michael Crichton was a technothriller writer that wasn't as good as Tom Clancy but compensated by adding contemporary concerns to his plots. Scared by Japan rising? Rising Sun! Scared by DNA manipulation? Jurassic Park! Scared by women in jobs? Disclosure! And so on.

    If you want one of his better books, then Andromeda Strain or Jurassic Park are better.
    Binary is also quite good.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,401
    edited August 6
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    More likely to be the other way round. Politics is often performative, on both sides.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,931
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    Well, JD Vance is what we call up in Staffs a Tristram,* who has extreme right views and on his own admission works for a Nazi.

    And David Lammy is non-white** and undoubtedly one of the Woke, although hardly one of the Wokest.

    He's also an Anglican and Vance is a rather esoteric Catholic.

    So they are going to have in common - what, exactly?

    *After Tristram Hunt, former MP for Stoke Central and all round Tristram.
    **Yes, I know Mrs Vance is also non-white. She is also not African.
    Tristram lived on my corridor on my corridor in my first year at University, as did his cousin, whose name escapes me. He had an extraordinary posh accent then.

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,353
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    No but I've seen the film (with Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes). It was ok, although apparently the book is much more critical of the Japanese.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,931

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Yes, I have

    It’s from the genre of “Japan takes over the world” books.

    People extrapolated Japanese growth as inevitable and forever. Hence by lunchtime tomorrow they will run the entire world.

    They also credited them with brilliant long term planning - taking over whole industries by undercutting the West with cheaper products.

    A big theme is Westerners who sell out to the Japanese for immediate gain.

    Remind you of anything?
    "An American businessman thinks of the next fiscal quarter; a Japanese businessman, the next quarter century."
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,080
    That Reform voters include a large number of people with white nationalist bias about the justice system is hardly surprising. Most of them of course are miles away from rioting, but like the rest of humanity give the expected answers to polling questions. The views are quite close to how the Mail and similar report stuff.

    It makes no difference at all to Farage. If he explicitly supported white violence almost no-one would vote for him and he wouldn't appear on the telly all the time. He knows exactly where to draw the line to keep on board the fairly dim mob together with the Goodwins and Leons who, of course, fully comprehend the intellectual rationale behind the fairly dim mob without, of course, wishing to set fire to people themselves. Together with those who don't follow this much but feel it's time for a change from one set of evasive liars to another he has a chance of winning as long as the other parties continue to offer so little.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    edited August 6
    Birningham airport currently closed after an incident.

    https://x.com/bhx_official/status/1953088880741114013

    Looks like an aircraft landed wheels-up, possibly having departed BHX and suffered some sort of landing gear issue after takeoff.

    Pictures show stranded but intact propellor-driven aircraft stuck on the runway, they’ll need a crane of some sort to move it clear.

    Lots of incoming flights diverted and diverting. AIUI no-one injured.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,467
    edited August 6
    FPT...
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    algarkirk said:

    That Reform voters include a large number of people with white nationalist bias about the justice system is hardly surprising. Most of them of course are miles away from rioting, but like the rest of humanity give the expected answers to polling questions. The views are quite close to how the Mail and similar report stuff.

    It makes no difference at all to Farage. If he explicitly supported white violence almost no-one would vote for him and he wouldn't appear on the telly all the time. He knows exactly where to draw the line to keep on board the fairly dim mob together with the Goodwins and Leons who, of course, fully comprehend the intellectual rationale behind the fairly dim mob without, of course, wishing to set fire to people themselves. Together with those who don't follow this much but feel it's time for a change from one set of evasive liars to another he has a chance of winning as long as the other parties continue to offer so little.

    To give Nigel his due (yes, I know), he’s always been very careful to disown any of the overtly racist or football hooligan types that have tried to get involved in his various parties.

    One of his strengths as a politician is knowing where to draw the line in polite society. You can be opposed to immigration without taking it out on law-abiding immigrants, be opposed to criminality without demonising large groups of people.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,177

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    I’m outraged!

    Can we have a “peaceful demo” to demand that the police officer *does* call them fascists?

    Who brings the cheap lager and the fireworks?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,915
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Weirdly yes, and seen the film based on the book. It's very 90's and the tech is very dated. The author Michael Crichton was a technothriller writer that wasn't as good as Tom Clancy but compensated by adding contemporary concerns to his plots. Scared by Japan rising? Rising Sun! Scared by DNA manipulation? Jurassic Park! Scared by women in jobs? Disclosure! And so on.

    If you want one of his better books, then Andromeda Strain or Jurassic Park are better.
    Yes, the anti-Japan paranoia was quite common in US techno-thrillers of the era.
    Quite wrongheaded - an example of EXTRAPOLATION gone mad.

    The latter two are certainly better.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,622
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Gosh, I'm feeling sorry for the Lammys already.
    cheeks of the same arse
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,931
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Yes, I have

    It’s from the genre of “Japan takes over the world” books.

    People extrapolated Japanese growth as inevitable and forever. Hence by lunchtime tomorrow they will run the entire world.

    They also credited them with brilliant long term planning - taking over whole industries by undercutting the West with cheaper products.

    A big theme is Westerners who sell out to the Japanese for immediate gain.

    Remind you of anything?
    "An American businessman thinks of the next fiscal quarter; a Japanese businessman, the next quarter century."
    Oh come on, I would have thought the guy who said would be a hero to many on here
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,467
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    That Reform voters include a large number of people with white nationalist bias about the justice system is hardly surprising. Most of them of course are miles away from rioting, but like the rest of humanity give the expected answers to polling questions. The views are quite close to how the Mail and similar report stuff.

    It makes no difference at all to Farage. If he explicitly supported white violence almost no-one would vote for him and he wouldn't appear on the telly all the time. He knows exactly where to draw the line to keep on board the fairly dim mob together with the Goodwins and Leons who, of course, fully comprehend the intellectual rationale behind the fairly dim mob without, of course, wishing to set fire to people themselves. Together with those who don't follow this much but feel it's time for a change from one set of evasive liars to another he has a chance of winning as long as the other parties continue to offer so little.

    To give Nigel his due (yes, I know), he’s always been very careful to disown any of the overtly racist or football hooligan types that have tried to get involved in his various parties.

    One of his strengths as a politician is knowing where to draw the line in polite society. You can be opposed to immigration without taking it out on law-abiding immigrants, be opposed to criminality without demonising large groups of people.
    He likes to give that impression. Reform UK has, however, relaxed their vetting procedures for candidates, and they were already letting in some overtly racist candidates! See https://www.ft.com/content/0c18b032-6ed0-489b-b4a2-99173fab01a4 Farage hasn't distanced himself from the overtly racist comments recently made by Ant Middleton, who wants to be the party's London Mayoral candidate: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-under-pressure-distance-35659266 We've seen in the US how anti-immigrant rhetoric rapidly spreads to ill treatment towards law-abiding immigrants, with Trump supporters being surprised when their co-workers/wives/parents are carted off by ICE.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,194
    Depends what you mean by fairly or unfairly.

    More importantly, during the 2011 riots academics were at pains to understand what were the underlying causes in the face of substantial public opinion which dismissed the rioters as mindless thugs (tl/dr: they weren't).

    A good example amongst several is https://www.theguardian.com/uk/interactive/2011/dec/14/reading-the-riots-investigating-england-s-summer-of-disorder-full-report

    The report focuses on the marginalisation of eg the local black communities in the riot-hit areas and the behaviour of the police as being contributory factors and rightly so imo.

    Unaccountably there seem to have been no analogous attempts to "understand" the 2024 riots in a similarly rigorous academic fashion.

    I even emailed one of the co-authors to ask if they would be conducting such an exercise into these riots and he said (or implied or I paraphrase) - no they were racist thugs.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,467
    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    Another validation for my rule. Just assume all right populist 'stories' are false. Saves so much time.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,747
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    Well, JD Vance is what we call up in Staffs a Tristram,* who has extreme right views and on his own admission works for a Nazi.

    And David Lammy is non-white** and undoubtedly one of the Woke, although hardly one of the Wokest.

    He's also an Anglican and Vance is a rather esoteric Catholic.

    So they are going to have in common - what, exactly?

    *After Tristram Hunt, former MP for Stoke Central and all round Tristram.
    **Yes, I know Mrs Vance is also non-white. She is also not African.
    Tristram lived on my corridor on my corridor in my first year at University, as did his cousin, whose name escapes me. He had an extraordinary posh accent then.

    You don't get many Tristrams without extroadinarily posh voices.

    Though having said that, ISTR that the real name of Mutley McLad - lead singer of the Macc Lads - is Tristram O'Neill.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130
    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,747
    FPT:
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "ElectionMapsUK

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 31% (+2)
    LAB: 22% (-1)
    CON: 18% (-2)
    LDM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @moreincommon, 1-3 Aug.
    Changes w/ 26-28 Jul"

    x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1953037106537714097

    Another great poll for Reform. Back in the 30s

    Also, look at this startling graph

    “56% of Britons say that immigration is one of the most important issues facing the country, the highest level since June 2016

    Immigration: 56% (+4 from 19-21 July)
    Economy: 46% (-5)
    Health: 34% (+2)
    Crime: 24% (+3)
    Defence: 19% (-2)
    Housing: 18% (+1)
    Environment: 17% (-1)
    Tax: 13% (-1)
    Welfare: 13% (-2)”

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1952691575051395287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It’s not the basic numbers that are really eye-opening (tho they are eye-opening), it’s the relentless rise of immigration as a major issue. It’s the purple line on the graph

    Look at it. Unlike every other issue it has only one direction (absent brief glitches): upwards. It slowly and relentlessly ascends from 2022 (mid 20%) to 2025 (mid 50%). Is there any reason to believe this will stop?

    I don’t think so because even if immigration finishes overnight and the boats all cease (not going to happen) there are ALREADY enough migrants here for concern to simply keep growing. It’s now baked in

    And of course Labour won’t stop migration and won’t stop the boats

    On this trajectory immigration will be overwhelmingly the biggest concern in a few years. Absolutely dominant. Perfect timing for Farage. If he avoids getting run over (etc) he is odds-on to be the next prime minister
    The power of the media, both traditional and social. The majority of people aren’t affected by immigration. They are just bombarded with information about those who are.
    Anyone who uses the NHS, or public transport, or worries about crime, or attempts to buy a house, or seeks a good school for their kids, or pays taxes to keep asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, etc etc - is affected by immigration. In other words: all of us
    I’m not. I don’t give a fuck about Londoners. When you stop sucking the lifeblood from the rest of the country, I might start to care. Those of us in more rural communities suffer from London immigrants buying up our property and making them unaffordable for locals.
    Why do you think Londoners move out?
    Because this is what you can buy in Scotland for the price of a 2 bedroom flat in Camden.
    Which is because of immigration.

    Imagine you have a tray of sand. You can't say 'we'll just put the additional sand in one small place'; the sand will spread out throughout the tray (though here the analogy falls down because it's the sand which was there in the first place which spreads out to the rest of the tray). Immigration of foreigners into London increases the pressure on local services in Northumberland because Londoners move out of London in response to immigration. You can't just say 'well we're not affected by immigration around here'. Everyone is.

    That said, I have just come back from a week in Cornwall and it was quite startling how British it was compared to Greater Manchester. So I understand why some don't necessarily perceive it yet. You realise that's what Greater Manchester (the outer bits of it, anyway) used to be like back in the 80s and 90s, and suddenly realise how much it has changed. In fact, I remember the first time I overheard a language other than English spoken on the bus and what a surprise it was - and that was only 20 years ago. The scale of change to the British population over the last three decades has been astonishing.

    Trust me, they have noticed immigration in Cornwall

    You may not have seen it in the lovely seaside villages, but go inland - Redruth, Camborne, St Austell, and it is highly visible. Even Truro has a few women in full burqas/niqabs now
    I did flirt with industrial Cornwall a bit, actually. Only a bit – there’s a limit to how much you can indulge your interest for social and economic geography on a family holiday. But still. The China Clay belt – St Blazey, St Austell, Par – is fascinating. Still quite a functional landscape. I’d say visibly it’s doing all right – you can imagine living there and having quite a nice life compared to its analogs in the north – though perhaps that is a result of the bucolic frame in which these places sit, and maybe things would look different in the winter. Par appeared to be having some sort of festival of flags, with flags of all nations (well, at least 50 of them) being flown apparently at random in various houses. Quite cheerful. (Also called in at Par Sands, which I’d say is well named – average. We were hoping without success to find any beaches in SE Cornwall which compared to those on the Atlantic Coast.)
    Also noted that the water temperature on the north coast seems perceptibly warmer than that on the south coast. My local AI tool confirms that this is probably correct: the north coast is more subject to Atlantic currents; the south is more sheltered.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,467
    TOPPING said:

    Depends what you mean by fairly or unfairly.

    More importantly, during the 2011 riots academics were at pains to understand what were the underlying causes in the face of substantial public opinion which dismissed the rioters as mindless thugs (tl/dr: they weren't).

    A good example amongst several is https://www.theguardian.com/uk/interactive/2011/dec/14/reading-the-riots-investigating-england-s-summer-of-disorder-full-report

    The report focuses on the marginalisation of eg the local black communities in the riot-hit areas and the behaviour of the police as being contributory factors and rightly so imo.

    Unaccountably there seem to have been no analogous attempts to "understand" the 2024 riots in a similarly rigorous academic fashion.

    I even emailed one of the co-authors to ask if they would be conducting such an exercise into these riots and he said (or implied or I paraphrase) - no they were racist thugs.

    There are academic analyses of the 2024 riots if you want them, e.g. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0032258X241299620

    This article examines different theoretical explanations for rioting and crowd disorder drawing on psychological, sociological and political perspectives. The role of the law and in particular, police practice in tackling and exacerbating crowd violence are explored with a critical eye on the latest police science research. Both psychological motivations of rioters and systemic intersectional inequalities are considered together in this piece to comprehensively account for the reasons why people choose to riot. The adequacy of theoretical explanations and recommendations for how future riots might be avoided are considered in relation to the English riots of August 2011 and August 2024.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,053

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,194

    TOPPING said:

    Depends what you mean by fairly or unfairly.

    More importantly, during the 2011 riots academics were at pains to understand what were the underlying causes in the face of substantial public opinion which dismissed the rioters as mindless thugs (tl/dr: they weren't).

    A good example amongst several is https://www.theguardian.com/uk/interactive/2011/dec/14/reading-the-riots-investigating-england-s-summer-of-disorder-full-report

    The report focuses on the marginalisation of eg the local black communities in the riot-hit areas and the behaviour of the police as being contributory factors and rightly so imo.

    Unaccountably there seem to have been no analogous attempts to "understand" the 2024 riots in a similarly rigorous academic fashion.

    I even emailed one of the co-authors to ask if they would be conducting such an exercise into these riots and he said (or implied or I paraphrase) - no they were racist thugs.

    There are academic analyses of the 2024 riots if you want them, e.g. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0032258X241299620

    This article examines different theoretical explanations for rioting and crowd disorder drawing on psychological, sociological and political perspectives. The role of the law and in particular, police practice in tackling and exacerbating crowd violence are explored with a critical eye on the latest police science research. Both psychological motivations of rioters and systemic intersectional inequalities are considered together in this piece to comprehensively account for the reasons why people choose to riot. The adequacy of theoretical explanations and recommendations for how future riots might be avoided are considered in relation to the English riots of August 2011 and August 2024.
    Excellent I will take a look. Can you summarise (if you want - I will as I said take a look).
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,387
    Shouldn't the American Department of Homeland Security be acting? Some moron has been banning research on the Messenger RNA vaccines. He claims to be called Kennedy but he's only a lawyer and knows nothing about vaccines. I assume he works for Putin.

    The BBC had an expert on to ask about her views. She has a Nobel prize in the subject and couldn't stop shaking her head at his lucacy. It reminded me of Dara O'Briain doing a comedy routine about the BBC bringing on a real dentist to compare with a fake one. "I take a rock and swing it against my teeth. Gets rid of the pain straight away. No teeth, no dental pain."

    I felt sorry for the scientist, but this was no joke. Like Trump, this Kennedy bloke was making things up as he went along and the BBC should never be taking this man seriously. I want my licence fee back for this year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,177
    Cookie said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "ElectionMapsUK

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 31% (+2)
    LAB: 22% (-1)
    CON: 18% (-2)
    LDM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @moreincommon, 1-3 Aug.
    Changes w/ 26-28 Jul"

    x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1953037106537714097

    Another great poll for Reform. Back in the 30s

    Also, look at this startling graph

    “56% of Britons say that immigration is one of the most important issues facing the country, the highest level since June 2016

    Immigration: 56% (+4 from 19-21 July)
    Economy: 46% (-5)
    Health: 34% (+2)
    Crime: 24% (+3)
    Defence: 19% (-2)
    Housing: 18% (+1)
    Environment: 17% (-1)
    Tax: 13% (-1)
    Welfare: 13% (-2)”

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1952691575051395287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It’s not the basic numbers that are really eye-opening (tho they are eye-opening), it’s the relentless rise of immigration as a major issue. It’s the purple line on the graph

    Look at it. Unlike every other issue it has only one direction (absent brief glitches): upwards. It slowly and relentlessly ascends from 2022 (mid 20%) to 2025 (mid 50%). Is there any reason to believe this will stop?

    I don’t think so because even if immigration finishes overnight and the boats all cease (not going to happen) there are ALREADY enough migrants here for concern to simply keep growing. It’s now baked in

    And of course Labour won’t stop migration and won’t stop the boats

    On this trajectory immigration will be overwhelmingly the biggest concern in a few years. Absolutely dominant. Perfect timing for Farage. If he avoids getting run over (etc) he is odds-on to be the next prime minister
    The power of the media, both traditional and social. The majority of people aren’t affected by immigration. They are just bombarded with information about those who are.
    Anyone who uses the NHS, or public transport, or worries about crime, or attempts to buy a house, or seeks a good school for their kids, or pays taxes to keep asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, etc etc - is affected by immigration. In other words: all of us
    I’m not. I don’t give a fuck about Londoners. When you stop sucking the lifeblood from the rest of the country, I might start to care. Those of us in more rural communities suffer from London immigrants buying up our property and making them unaffordable for locals.
    Why do you think Londoners move out?
    Because this is what you can buy in Scotland for the price of a 2 bedroom flat in Camden.
    Which is because of immigration.

    Imagine you have a tray of sand. You can't say 'we'll just put the additional sand in one small place'; the sand will spread out throughout the tray (though here the analogy falls down because it's the sand which was there in the first place which spreads out to the rest of the tray). Immigration of foreigners into London increases the pressure on local services in Northumberland because Londoners move out of London in response to immigration. You can't just say 'well we're not affected by immigration around here'. Everyone is.

    That said, I have just come back from a week in Cornwall and it was quite startling how British it was compared to Greater Manchester. So I understand why some don't necessarily perceive it yet. You realise that's what Greater Manchester (the outer bits of it, anyway) used to be like back in the 80s and 90s, and suddenly realise how much it has changed. In fact, I remember the first time I overheard a language other than English spoken on the bus and what a surprise it was - and that was only 20 years ago. The scale of change to the British population over the last three decades has been astonishing.

    Trust me, they have noticed immigration in Cornwall

    You may not have seen it in the lovely seaside villages, but go inland - Redruth, Camborne, St Austell, and it is highly visible. Even Truro has a few women in full burqas/niqabs now
    I did flirt with industrial Cornwall a bit, actually. Only a bit – there’s a limit to how much you can indulge your interest for social and economic geography on a family holiday. But still. The China Clay belt – St Blazey, St Austell, Par – is fascinating. Still quite a functional landscape. I’d say visibly it’s doing all right – you can imagine living there and having quite a nice life compared to its analogs in the north – though perhaps that is a result of the bucolic frame in which these places sit, and maybe things would look different in the winter. Par appeared to be having some sort of festival of flags, with flags of all nations (well, at least 50 of them) being flown apparently at random in various houses. Quite cheerful. (Also called in at Par Sands, which I’d say is well named – average. We were hoping without success to find any beaches in SE Cornwall which compared to those on the Atlantic Coast.)
    Also noted that the water temperature on the north coast seems perceptibly warmer than that on the south coast. My local AI tool confirms that this is probably correct: the north coast is more subject to Atlantic currents; the south is more sheltered.
    Did you make it to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polkerris ? Lovely beach
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,747

    Cookie said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "ElectionMapsUK

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 31% (+2)
    LAB: 22% (-1)
    CON: 18% (-2)
    LDM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @moreincommon, 1-3 Aug.
    Changes w/ 26-28 Jul"

    x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1953037106537714097

    Another great poll for Reform. Back in the 30s

    Also, look at this startling graph

    “56% of Britons say that immigration is one of the most important issues facing the country, the highest level since June 2016

    Immigration: 56% (+4 from 19-21 July)
    Economy: 46% (-5)
    Health: 34% (+2)
    Crime: 24% (+3)
    Defence: 19% (-2)
    Housing: 18% (+1)
    Environment: 17% (-1)
    Tax: 13% (-1)
    Welfare: 13% (-2)”

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1952691575051395287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It’s not the basic numbers that are really eye-opening (tho they are eye-opening), it’s the relentless rise of immigration as a major issue. It’s the purple line on the graph

    Look at it. Unlike every other issue it has only one direction (absent brief glitches): upwards. It slowly and relentlessly ascends from 2022 (mid 20%) to 2025 (mid 50%). Is there any reason to believe this will stop?

    I don’t think so because even if immigration finishes overnight and the boats all cease (not going to happen) there are ALREADY enough migrants here for concern to simply keep growing. It’s now baked in

    And of course Labour won’t stop migration and won’t stop the boats

    On this trajectory immigration will be overwhelmingly the biggest concern in a few years. Absolutely dominant. Perfect timing for Farage. If he avoids getting run over (etc) he is odds-on to be the next prime minister
    The power of the media, both traditional and social. The majority of people aren’t affected by immigration. They are just bombarded with information about those who are.
    Anyone who uses the NHS, or public transport, or worries about crime, or attempts to buy a house, or seeks a good school for their kids, or pays taxes to keep asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, etc etc - is affected by immigration. In other words: all of us
    I’m not. I don’t give a fuck about Londoners. When you stop sucking the lifeblood from the rest of the country, I might start to care. Those of us in more rural communities suffer from London immigrants buying up our property and making them unaffordable for locals.
    Why do you think Londoners move out?
    Because this is what you can buy in Scotland for the price of a 2 bedroom flat in Camden.
    Which is because of immigration.

    Imagine you have a tray of sand. You can't say 'we'll just put the additional sand in one small place'; the sand will spread out throughout the tray (though here the analogy falls down because it's the sand which was there in the first place which spreads out to the rest of the tray). Immigration of foreigners into London increases the pressure on local services in Northumberland because Londoners move out of London in response to immigration. You can't just say 'well we're not affected by immigration around here'. Everyone is.

    That said, I have just come back from a week in Cornwall and it was quite startling how British it was compared to Greater Manchester. So I understand why some don't necessarily perceive it yet. You realise that's what Greater Manchester (the outer bits of it, anyway) used to be like back in the 80s and 90s, and suddenly realise how much it has changed. In fact, I remember the first time I overheard a language other than English spoken on the bus and what a surprise it was - and that was only 20 years ago. The scale of change to the British population over the last three decades has been astonishing.

    Trust me, they have noticed immigration in Cornwall

    You may not have seen it in the lovely seaside villages, but go inland - Redruth, Camborne, St Austell, and it is highly visible. Even Truro has a few women in full burqas/niqabs now
    I did flirt with industrial Cornwall a bit, actually. Only a bit – there’s a limit to how much you can indulge your interest for social and economic geography on a family holiday. But still. The China Clay belt – St Blazey, St Austell, Par – is fascinating. Still quite a functional landscape. I’d say visibly it’s doing all right – you can imagine living there and having quite a nice life compared to its analogs in the north – though perhaps that is a result of the bucolic frame in which these places sit, and maybe things would look different in the winter. Par appeared to be having some sort of festival of flags, with flags of all nations (well, at least 50 of them) being flown apparently at random in various houses. Quite cheerful. (Also called in at Par Sands, which I’d say is well named – average. We were hoping without success to find any beaches in SE Cornwall which compared to those on the Atlantic Coast.)
    Also noted that the water temperature on the north coast seems perceptibly warmer than that on the south coast. My local AI tool confirms that this is probably correct: the north coast is more subject to Atlantic currents; the south is more sheltered.
    Did you make it to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polkerris ? Lovely beach
    That would have been excellent information a week ago! I knew I should have asked here. Looks splendid and better than any of the South Cornwall beaches we made it to.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham airport currently closed after an incident.

    https://x.com/bhx_official/status/1953088880741114013

    Looks like an aircraft landed wheels-up, possibly having departed BHX and suffered some sort of landing gear issue after takeoff.

    Pictures show stranded but intact propellor-driven aircraft stuck on the runway, they’ll need a crane of some sort to move it clear.

    Lots of incoming flights diverted and diverting. AIUI no-one injured.

    Latest update: field closed until at least 18:00 local time.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because the GOP engaged in real shithousery when Biden tried to do anything.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    edited August 6
    It seems like the people smugglers didn't get the government memo that its 79 passengers or fewer from now on...

    https://x.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1953064335317606566
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,887
    edited August 6
    On topic (I think).

    Once a jolly bag man ...

    How I uncovered a network of new crimes involving Nigel Farage's most loyal financier.
    https://thestateofuk.substack.com/p/the-crimes-behind-reform

    (Not a rabbit hole I have peered down.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    India not happy with Trump, says that it’s in their own national interest to buy cheap oil from Russian warmongers.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1953114414422376622

    Of course it’s in their own interest to buy cheap oil, which is why those who buy it are getting sanctioned by the US.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    I read it many years ago. from memory it was quite good. The film on the other hand, not so much. I read Jurassic Park and the Lost World as well, if I remember correctly they were quite a lot darker than the movies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    Scott_xP said:
    The country really has gone to the dogs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.

    I was there too! You'd have thought we'd have bumped into each other.

    (Phone survived again. Getting silly now how often that happens)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,080
    TOPPING said:

    Depends what you mean by fairly or unfairly.

    More importantly, during the 2011 riots academics were at pains to understand what were the underlying causes in the face of substantial public opinion which dismissed the rioters as mindless thugs (tl/dr: they weren't).

    A good example amongst several is https://www.theguardian.com/uk/interactive/2011/dec/14/reading-the-riots-investigating-england-s-summer-of-disorder-full-report

    The report focuses on the marginalisation of eg the local black communities in the riot-hit areas and the behaviour of the police as being contributory factors and rightly so imo.

    Unaccountably there seem to have been no analogous attempts to "understand" the 2024 riots in a similarly rigorous academic fashion.

    I even emailed one of the co-authors to ask if they would be conducting such an exercise into these riots and he said (or implied or I paraphrase) - no they were racist thugs.

    Thanks. This seems to me a truly important point, and shocking if true. If academia is going to go all scholarly and researchy over forms of group violence X, Y and Z, but show no similar interest on the same basis over forms of group violence A, B and C then it is simply not doing its job, and joining with the Guardian and the Daily Mail in a priori selection on the basis of 'who, whom'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,177
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "ElectionMapsUK

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    RFM: 31% (+2)
    LAB: 22% (-1)
    CON: 18% (-2)
    LDM: 14% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @moreincommon, 1-3 Aug.
    Changes w/ 26-28 Jul"

    x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1953037106537714097

    Another great poll for Reform. Back in the 30s

    Also, look at this startling graph

    “56% of Britons say that immigration is one of the most important issues facing the country, the highest level since June 2016

    Immigration: 56% (+4 from 19-21 July)
    Economy: 46% (-5)
    Health: 34% (+2)
    Crime: 24% (+3)
    Defence: 19% (-2)
    Housing: 18% (+1)
    Environment: 17% (-1)
    Tax: 13% (-1)
    Welfare: 13% (-2)”

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1952691575051395287?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    It’s not the basic numbers that are really eye-opening (tho they are eye-opening), it’s the relentless rise of immigration as a major issue. It’s the purple line on the graph

    Look at it. Unlike every other issue it has only one direction (absent brief glitches): upwards. It slowly and relentlessly ascends from 2022 (mid 20%) to 2025 (mid 50%). Is there any reason to believe this will stop?

    I don’t think so because even if immigration finishes overnight and the boats all cease (not going to happen) there are ALREADY enough migrants here for concern to simply keep growing. It’s now baked in

    And of course Labour won’t stop migration and won’t stop the boats

    On this trajectory immigration will be overwhelmingly the biggest concern in a few years. Absolutely dominant. Perfect timing for Farage. If he avoids getting run over (etc) he is odds-on to be the next prime minister
    The power of the media, both traditional and social. The majority of people aren’t affected by immigration. They are just bombarded with information about those who are.
    Anyone who uses the NHS, or public transport, or worries about crime, or attempts to buy a house, or seeks a good school for their kids, or pays taxes to keep asylum seekers in 4 star hotels, etc etc - is affected by immigration. In other words: all of us
    I’m not. I don’t give a fuck about Londoners. When you stop sucking the lifeblood from the rest of the country, I might start to care. Those of us in more rural communities suffer from London immigrants buying up our property and making them unaffordable for locals.
    Why do you think Londoners move out?
    Because this is what you can buy in Scotland for the price of a 2 bedroom flat in Camden.
    Which is because of immigration.

    Imagine you have a tray of sand. You can't say 'we'll just put the additional sand in one small place'; the sand will spread out throughout the tray (though here the analogy falls down because it's the sand which was there in the first place which spreads out to the rest of the tray). Immigration of foreigners into London increases the pressure on local services in Northumberland because Londoners move out of London in response to immigration. You can't just say 'well we're not affected by immigration around here'. Everyone is.

    That said, I have just come back from a week in Cornwall and it was quite startling how British it was compared to Greater Manchester. So I understand why some don't necessarily perceive it yet. You realise that's what Greater Manchester (the outer bits of it, anyway) used to be like back in the 80s and 90s, and suddenly realise how much it has changed. In fact, I remember the first time I overheard a language other than English spoken on the bus and what a surprise it was - and that was only 20 years ago. The scale of change to the British population over the last three decades has been astonishing.

    Trust me, they have noticed immigration in Cornwall

    You may not have seen it in the lovely seaside villages, but go inland - Redruth, Camborne, St Austell, and it is highly visible. Even Truro has a few women in full burqas/niqabs now
    I did flirt with industrial Cornwall a bit, actually. Only a bit – there’s a limit to how much you can indulge your interest for social and economic geography on a family holiday. But still. The China Clay belt – St Blazey, St Austell, Par – is fascinating. Still quite a functional landscape. I’d say visibly it’s doing all right – you can imagine living there and having quite a nice life compared to its analogs in the north – though perhaps that is a result of the bucolic frame in which these places sit, and maybe things would look different in the winter. Par appeared to be having some sort of festival of flags, with flags of all nations (well, at least 50 of them) being flown apparently at random in various houses. Quite cheerful. (Also called in at Par Sands, which I’d say is well named – average. We were hoping without success to find any beaches in SE Cornwall which compared to those on the Atlantic Coast.)
    Also noted that the water temperature on the north coast seems perceptibly warmer than that on the south coast. My local AI tool confirms that this is probably correct: the north coast is more subject to Atlantic currents; the south is more sheltered.
    Did you make it to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polkerris ? Lovely beach
    That would have been excellent information a week ago! I knew I should have asked here. Looks splendid and better than any of the South Cornwall beaches we made it to.
    On a hot summers day it is glorious there

    Park up on the benches outside Sam’s (the one resteraunt) before they open - the inside gets booked up, the benches are first come first served.

    The pub does ok food and good beer.

    Well worth renting a paddle board (if you have the skill) to explore the caves to the left of the beach….

    You can walk there along the costal path from Par - something worth doing, by itself, for the scenery.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    Scott_xP said:
    Is that actually real? I’d assumed it was an AI prank of some sort.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is that actually real? I’d assumed it was an AI prank of some sort.
    It’s genuine, I tried the M&S version and it was lovely, I would recommend.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/m-and-s-strawberry-sandwiches-b2803010.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,669
    CD13 said:

    Shouldn't the American Department of Homeland Security be acting? Some moron has been banning research on the Messenger RNA vaccines. He claims to be called Kennedy but he's only a lawyer and knows nothing about vaccines. I assume he works for Putin.

    The BBC had an expert on to ask about her views. She has a Nobel prize in the subject and couldn't stop shaking her head at his lucacy. It reminded me of Dara O'Briain doing a comedy routine about the BBC bringing on a real dentist to compare with a fake one. "I take a rock and swing it against my teeth. Gets rid of the pain straight away. No teeth, no dental pain."

    I felt sorry for the scientist, but this was no joke. Like Trump, this Kennedy bloke was making things up as he went along and the BBC should never be taking this man seriously. I want my licence fee back for this year.

    The rest of RFK´s fuckwittery includes killing and torturing kids because he doesn´t support vaccination.

    I wonder how soon we will look back at the Trump regime and simply shake our heads.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,053

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because the GOP engaged in real shithousery when Biden tried to do anything.
    This is an executive order, right? That means the GOP would have had no say when Biden was in the White House.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,452

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Has anyone read Rising Sun by Michael Crichton? Published in 1992, his first book after Jurassic Park (although not related). I haven't but it sounds interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(Crichton_novel)

    Weirdly yes, and seen the film based on the book. It's very 90's and the tech is very dated. The author Michael Crichton was a technothriller writer that wasn't as good as Tom Clancy but compensated by adding contemporary concerns to his plots. Scared by Japan rising? Rising Sun! Scared by DNA manipulation? Jurassic Park! Scared by women in jobs? Disclosure! And so on.

    If you want one of his better books, then Andromeda Strain or Jurassic Park are better.
    Binary is also quite good.
    The film of "Terminal Man" is also good.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because the GOP engaged in real shithousery when Biden tried to do anything.
    This is an executive order, right? That means the GOP would have had no say when Biden was in the White House.
    Most of the time they threatened to stop other stuff if Biden did X.

    They had to send Dave to Washington to persuade the GOP to vote for more funding for Ukraine.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is that actually real? I’d assumed it was an AI prank of some sort.
    It’s genuine, I tried the M&S version and it was lovely, I would recommend.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/m-and-s-strawberry-sandwiches-b2803010.html
    Next you will be telling us the Hundred is actually a good cricket competition.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,887
    edited August 6
    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495
    Cicero said:

    CD13 said:

    Shouldn't the American Department of Homeland Security be acting? Some moron has been banning research on the Messenger RNA vaccines. He claims to be called Kennedy but he's only a lawyer and knows nothing about vaccines. I assume he works for Putin.

    The BBC had an expert on to ask about her views. She has a Nobel prize in the subject and couldn't stop shaking her head at his lucacy. It reminded me of Dara O'Briain doing a comedy routine about the BBC bringing on a real dentist to compare with a fake one. "I take a rock and swing it against my teeth. Gets rid of the pain straight away. No teeth, no dental pain."

    I felt sorry for the scientist, but this was no joke. Like Trump, this Kennedy bloke was making things up as he went along and the BBC should never be taking this man seriously. I want my licence fee back for this year.

    The rest of RFK´s fuckwittery includes killing and torturing kids because he doesn´t support vaccination.

    I wonder how soon we will look back at the Trump regime and simply shake our heads.
    Doing it now - the head shake - but it will be nice when it's a case of looking *back*.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,130

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is that actually real? I’d assumed it was an AI prank of some sort.
    It’s genuine, I tried the M&S version and it was lovely, I would recommend.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/m-and-s-strawberry-sandwiches-b2803010.html
    Next you will be telling us the Hundred is actually a good cricket competition.
    The Hundred is the worst thing the ECB/TCCB has done since they appointed Chris Cowdrey England captain because he was the Chairman of Selectors godson.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,931
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because until Trump it was not considered in the power of the US President to impose tariffs by Executive Order.

    If Biden had had any sense (and he didn't, not by the end at least), he should have issued a flurry of Executive Order around tariffs and the like, above the Republican Congress, to ensure that the Supreme Court struck him down.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,887
    edited August 6
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because the GOP engaged in real shithousery when Biden tried to do anything.
    This is an executive order, right? That means the GOP would have had no say when Biden was in the White House.
    Tariffs are reserved to Congress aiui, in the Constitution; though sanctions are not.

    It's Trump ignoring or stretching the law again, by "creative" use of - here - the "1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA)". I think.

    Biden did not do that afaik.

    Details: https://verfassungsblog.de/trump-tariffs-legal-ieepa/
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,766
    edited August 6
    Sandpit said:

    India not happy with Trump, says that it’s in their own national interest to buy cheap oil from Russian warmongers.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1953114414422376622

    Of course it’s in their own interest to buy cheap oil, which is why those who buy it are getting sanctioned by the US.

    I suppose the sanctions will do something but they will be very expensive and disruptive and it would be so much more effective easier and probably cheaper for the US if Trump just gave Ukraine all the second rate weapons that America no longer needs.

    Better still travel back in time to two years ago and support Ukraine when it would have made even more difference, probably a decisive one on the battlefield.

    Still better dangerously late than absolutely never I suppose.

    And definitely better quarter measures than absolutely nothing.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,187

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is that actually real? I’d assumed it was an AI prank of some sort.
    It’s genuine, I tried the M&S version and it was lovely, I would recommend.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/food-drink/m-and-s-strawberry-sandwiches-b2803010.html
    Next you will be telling us the Hundred is actually a good cricket competition.
    The Hundred is the worst thing the ECB/TCCB has done since they appointed Chris Cowdrey England captain because he was the Chairman of Selectors godson.
    Everyone in England got a turn at skippering in 1988. PBH May was a generous man
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,187
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
    Taxing Allotments is surely the way to go
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,194

    TOPPING said:

    Depends what you mean by fairly or unfairly.

    More importantly, during the 2011 riots academics were at pains to understand what were the underlying causes in the face of substantial public opinion which dismissed the rioters as mindless thugs (tl/dr: they weren't).

    A good example amongst several is https://www.theguardian.com/uk/interactive/2011/dec/14/reading-the-riots-investigating-england-s-summer-of-disorder-full-report

    The report focuses on the marginalisation of eg the local black communities in the riot-hit areas and the behaviour of the police as being contributory factors and rightly so imo.

    Unaccountably there seem to have been no analogous attempts to "understand" the 2024 riots in a similarly rigorous academic fashion.

    I even emailed one of the co-authors to ask if they would be conducting such an exercise into these riots and he said (or implied or I paraphrase) - no they were racist thugs.

    There are academic analyses of the 2024 riots if you want them, e.g. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0032258X241299620

    This article examines different theoretical explanations for rioting and crowd disorder drawing on psychological, sociological and political perspectives. The role of the law and in particular, police practice in tackling and exacerbating crowd violence are explored with a critical eye on the latest police science research. Both psychological motivations of rioters and systemic intersectional inequalities are considered together in this piece to comprehensively account for the reasons why people choose to riot. The adequacy of theoretical explanations and recommendations for how future riots might be avoided are considered in relation to the English riots of August 2011 and August 2024.
    This is not an academic analysis of the 2024 riots. It is an attempt to understand the motivation of "rioters" without using the 2024 ones as a specific example (they cite plenty of specific research into the 2011 riots). It ultimately introduces the idea of a typology of rioters (professional, revengeful, adventurer, victim-centric) to the analysis.

    Not seen anything about the 2024 riots specifically.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    edited August 6
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    There is more chance of TSE being spotted enjoying himself at a Hundred match in the cheap seats.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,868
    edited August 6
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
    Let’s repeat what I’ve said for over a year

    We should have had 3p on base rate income tax added last year to reverse Hunt’s uncosted (beyond happiest and happy paths) NI cuts

    I expect we will see some interesting changes in VAT as well (with making tax digital it would make sense to reduce the VAT registration threshold to £30,000).
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,026
    Afternoon all :)

    For a little research, it seems 4,105 people were arrested following the August 2011 riots and of those 40% were white and 39% black. 46% were between 18-24 so it was a riot of the young and focused on looting of shops and retail parks (remember them?).

    I remember the calls for tough sentences and no leniency in the aftermath of the disturbances with courts running through the weekend to clear the backlog. It didn't seem quite the same after Southport to be honest probably because we all knew the prisons were full to overflowing thanks to 14 years of Conservative neglect.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,136
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @robcrilly

    NEWS: JD Vance will meet David Lammy on Friday at Chevening, the foreign secretary's grace and favour country house in Kent. They will be joined by their families as the Vances start their British vacation, per sources

    Why does one get the impression that, formalities aside, those two aren’t going to get on particularly well?

    IIRC they’ve both said pretty terrible things about each other in the past, politically if not personally.
    Well, JD Vance is what we call up in Staffs a Tristram,* who has extreme right views and on his own admission works for a Nazi.

    And David Lammy is non-white** and undoubtedly one of the Woke, although hardly one of the Wokest.

    He's also an Anglican and Vance is a rather esoteric Catholic.

    So they are going to have in common - what, exactly?

    *After Tristram Hunt, former MP for Stoke Central and all round Tristram.
    **Yes, I know Mrs Vance is also non-white. She is also not African.
    Both called Trump fascist – or was that just Vance?

    Lammy is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Vance is a Yale-educated lawyer.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,994
    kinabalu said:

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.

    I was there too! You'd have thought we'd have bumped into each other.

    (Phone survived again. Getting silly now how often that happens)
    Last week I turned up with my carnation buttonhole and copy of the times but I didn't see you. You would have thought we would have bumped into one another. Going up again on 15th. Tempting fate regarding the phone. Can't believe I have got away with it so many times.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,026
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
    Let’s repeat what I’ve said for over a year

    We should have had 3p on base rate income tax added last year to reverse Hunt’s uncosted (beyond happiest and happy paths) NI cuts

    I expect we will see some interesting changes in VAT as well (with making tax digital it would make sense to reduce the VAT registration threshold to £30,000).
    You're not the only one who said raising basic rate income tax to 25p would be sensible. I would raise higher rate to 45p (or even 50p which got a couple on here agitated) BUT, as a carrot, I would unfreeze personal allowances and indeed in year one I would have increased the thresholds by RPI x 2 and thereafter the thresholds would rise by RPI.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,446
    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    India not happy with Trump, says that it’s in their own national interest to buy cheap oil from Russian warmongers.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1953114414422376622

    Of course it’s in their own interest to buy cheap oil, which is why those who buy it are getting sanctioned by the US.

    I suppose the sanctions will do something but they will be very expensive and disruptive and it would be so much more effective easier and probably cheaper for the US if Trump just gave Ukraine all the second rate weapons that America no longer needs.

    Better still travel back in time to two years ago and support Ukraine when it would have made even more difference, probably a decisive one on the battlefield.

    Still better dangerously late than absolutely never I suppose.

    And definitely better quarter measures than absolutely nothing.
    We need the USA (and others) to provide Ukraine with more weaponry and intelligence; and for civilised countries to put stronger sanctions on Russia.

    They do different things: obviously the weapons help Ukraine fight; but the sanctions significantly hinder Russia's ability to prosecute the war. Sanctions will not stop them from doing something they really want to do, but they can make it much more expensive to do, and to make it take longer. That is very useful.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,184
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
    Let’s repeat what I’ve said for over a year

    We should have had 3p on base rate income tax added last year to reverse Hunt’s uncosted (beyond happiest and happy paths) NI cuts

    I expect we will see some interesting changes in VAT as well (with making tax digital it would make sense to reduce the VAT registration threshold to £30,000).
    Absolutely, but the window to do that was last year, under the excuse that the actual finances were worse than promised.

    That window has now closed, with the government instead choosing a load of tinkering which cost a whole load of political capital in exchange for very little extra revenue.

    And now there’s £50bn or so to find somewhere
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,187
    She's going to have to upset 'working people' and break her own silly rules.
    Oh well. Cheerio Rach
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,000
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because until Trump it was not considered in the power of the US President to impose tariffs by Executive Order.

    If Biden had had any sense (and he didn't, not by the end at least), he should have issued a flurry of Executive Order around tariffs and the like, above the Republican Congress, to ensure that the Supreme Court struck him down.
    Is it not more that on Ukraine, Biden was all fur coat and no knickers? It’s very clear that the Russian policy of the Biden White House pivoted after autumn 2022, to be one of prolonged and bloody containment, rather than rout or forced peace. The counter offensive under nato combined arms doctrine was little more than an expensive (in every sense) fireworks show.

    None of us have sufficient info to know whether the unending containment approach was right or wrong. Just as now, none of us know whether Trump using all instruments of state to try and force a peace on current lines is right or wrong. The quiet nuclear hum has returned in the last few days though hasn’t it. I haven’t really heard it in my head since 2022.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,136
    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    We expect living standards to grow modestly in 2025-26 for middle- and high-income households but decline for the poorest 10 per cent.
    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma

    Good for NOTA – Reform & Your.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,136
    Sandpit said:

    India not happy with Trump, says that it’s in their own national interest to buy cheap oil from Russian warmongers.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1953114414422376622

    Of course it’s in their own interest to buy cheap oil, which is why those who buy it are getting sanctioned by the US.

    Double-edged. Russia (and China) were said to be paying rock bottom prices, so bad for Russia in the long term but Moscow needs the cash coming in right now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,825

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,452
    Regarding Reeve's spending gap. Would - now hear me out - tariffs help here?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.

    I was there too! You'd have thought we'd have bumped into each other.

    (Phone survived again. Getting silly now how often that happens)
    Last week I turned up with my carnation buttonhole and copy of the times but I didn't see you. You would have thought we would have bumped into one another. Going up again on 15th. Tempting fate regarding the phone. Can't believe I have got away with it so many times.
    I actually did see you. Just a glimpse as you turned a corner about 50 yards away. No point me running after you. I knew you'd be gone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,543
    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,994
    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    Both statements can be true, however we appreciate that someone with a low IQ may struggle with this concept.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,026

    She's going to have to upset 'working people' and break her own silly rules.
    Oh well. Cheerio Rach

    Raising taxes and cutting spending "upsets" everyone and if this were a Conservative CoE in this situation, we'd all know which way they would jump but Reeves can be more flexible if she chooses to be.

    It's interesting to note the NIESR reference to housing costs - rents are rising well above inflation and as the report points out that impacts on lower income (not exclusively) individuals and families.

    I don't know if this is landlords trying to gouge tenants or simply passing on their increases but it's a big factor.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,757
    "Plans For Britain's First 'White Only' Community In Wales

    TalkTV"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62jK3Jgxvpk
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495
    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    It was a rare piece of far right propaganda that one hoped (against all odds) would be true.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,868
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    MattW said:

    A general question.

    Is the alleged £41bn finance gap in the Govt single year or rest of Parliament (ie 4 years)?

    I'm seeing articles written with both assumptions, and I can't find any articles linking to the source, that is the NIESR report.

    The Government is not on track to meet its ‘stability rule’, with our forecast suggesting a current deficit of £41.2 billion in the fiscal year 2029-30.

    https://niesr.ac.uk/publications/uk-economic-outlook-chancellors-trilemma?type=uk-economic-outlook&hss_channel=tw-870591852
    Time to cut spending, Rachel.
    LOL, there’s precisely no chance she’s going to cut spending.

    I’m sure that raising the additional rate from 47% to 52% will raise all that’s required, and definitely not fall down the back of the Laffer curve.
    Let’s repeat what I’ve said for over a year

    We should have had 3p on base rate income tax added last year to reverse Hunt’s uncosted (beyond happiest and happy paths) NI cuts

    I expect we will see some interesting changes in VAT as well (with making tax digital it would make sense to reduce the VAT registration threshold to £30,000).
    Absolutely, but the window to do that was last year, under the excuse that the actual finances were worse than promised.

    That window has now closed, with the government instead choosing a load of tinkering which cost a whole load of political capital in exchange for very little extra revenue.

    And now there’s £50bn or so to find somewhere
    Let’s go back to the other half of my statement from last year - you do everything quickly and raise more money than necessary as people will forget the tax increases over time.

    As you say the opportunity was only there last year and Labour have utterly fluffed taxation and Government spending in a way that I don’t think they will recover from.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,931

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,495
    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    US to impose additional 25% tariffs on India, until they stop buying Russian O&G products.

    https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1953096522758750464

    Thin comfort after all Trump has done to undermine Ukraine.
    Why hadn't this been done previously by Biden?
    Because until Trump it was not considered in the power of the US President to impose tariffs by Executive Order.

    If Biden had had any sense (and he didn't, not by the end at least), he should have issued a flurry of Executive Order around tariffs and the like, above the Republican Congress, to ensure that the Supreme Court struck him down.
    Is it not more that on Ukraine, Biden was all fur coat and no knickers? It’s very clear that the Russian policy of the Biden White House pivoted after autumn 2022, to be one of prolonged and bloody containment, rather than rout or forced peace. The counter offensive under nato combined arms doctrine was little more than an expensive (in every sense) fireworks show.

    None of us have sufficient info to know whether the unending containment approach was right or wrong. Just as now, none of us know whether Trump using all instruments of state to try and force a peace on current lines is right or wrong. The quiet nuclear hum has returned in the last few days though hasn’t it. I haven’t really heard it in my head since 2022.
    Is this a positive development then - the return of the 'quiet nuclear hum' in your head?
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