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Once again Reform voters show they are massive outliers – politicalbetting.com

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    MattW said:

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    It's a bit of a nothingburger apart from what sounds like a bit of over-push by the letting agent - in overdoing dilapidations.

    She gave them 4 months notice, put it on the market, it failed to sell, and now it is still on the market with new tenants in whilst it continues to be marketed.

    They could have stayed, as she had previously offered them the chance to stay on a normal rolling contract with 2 months notice - I assume whilst she marketed it; if there are new tenants in now then presumably they turned her down.

    It seems loopy to turn her down if she offered them a rolling contract, since that would avoid a pile of fees for them - but London tenants are strange beasts; I have one T who has been on a monthly rolling contract since 2011.

    The new tenants with have at least a 6 month fixed period as per the law.

    https://archive.is/20250806182656/https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449
    Why are you so sure she didn't push for the increase when making it available for rent again?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,747
    edited August 6

    Don't hate me, but I am enjoying this evening's Hundred match.

    Are you eating a pizza with pineapple on it while filling in your election notice for President of the Max Verstappen fan club?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,209
    Video of the landing of the plane that closed Birmingham airport.

    https://x.com/einerdo13/status/1953121766370402480
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,419
    edited August 6

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    One of my closely held principles is that you should not criticise someone for playing by the rules even as they advocate for a change in them (e.g. I'm not going to donate additional cash to HMRC because I think there should be a property tax).

    But...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,486


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,747


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
    they have made Abbott look like an idiot with a very small cock.

    We cannot have this.

    Not least because he is an idiot with a very small cock. They have given away a state secret.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,146
    ydoethur said:

    Don't hate me, but I am enjoying this evening's Hundred match.

    Are you eating a pizza with pineapple on it while filling in your election notice for President of the Max Verstappen fan club?
    It was an exciting finish.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,209
    edited August 6


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    If ever there was a story that made you want to hate all politicians, thinking that they were only ever out for themselves and don’t give a sh!t about those they are supposed to represent, it’s the story of the Texas government in the past few days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous

    Do you still believe the chinese robot dog was an AI fake?
    And the second time (at least) tonight you have been completely irrational. I have no idea who is right on either subject, but it is irrational of you to counter an argument on topic a) by countering topic b).

    Why don't you deal with the points raised on this topic rather than another topic. Points were raised. If wrong counter them. Don't deflect.

    Or is another demonstration of low IQ.
    Leon's gonna Loon.
    You still haven't told me if you still firmly believe the Chinese robot dog is an "AI fake video"?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,464
    Sandpit said:


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    If ever there was a story that made you want to hate all politicians, thinking that they were only ever out for themselves and don’t give a sh!t about those they are supposed to represent, it’s the story of the Texas government in the past few days.
    It would be entertaining if after gerrymandering every district conservative voters refuse to vote for these asshats
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    It's a bit of a nothingburger apart from what sounds like a bit of over-push by the letting agent - in overdoing dilapidations.

    She gave them 4 months notice, put it on the market, it failed to sell, and now it is still on the market with new tenants in whilst it continues to be marketed.

    She had previously offered them the chance to stay on a normal rolling contract with 2 months notice; if there are new tenants in then presumably they turned her down. It seems loopy to turn her down if she offered them a rolling contract, since that would avoid a pile of fees for them - but London tenants are strange beasts; I have one T who has been on a monthly rolling contract since 2011.

    The new tenants with have at least a 6 month fixed period as per the law.

    https://archive.is/20250806182656/https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449
    You still haven't told me if you still firmly believe the Chinese robot dog is an "AI fake video"?
    Drop the embroidery.

    I asked a question about a very smooth video; nothing more.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,483
    I see that Reform supporters are not so keen on Laura Norder in some instances.

    I wonder why that could be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    Spain takes my advice, in deciding against paying billions for a shipborne fighter capability.

    Spain rules out F-35 order, prioritizes Eurofighter and FCAS
    A Lockheed Martin executive previously told Breaking Defense that the F-35 was Madrid's only real option to replace aging Harrier jets for ship-based operations.
    https://breakingdefense.com/2025/08/spain-rules-out-f-35-order-prioritizes-eurofighter-and-fcas/
  • Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
    The quirky aspect of this to me is that any law should exist that can force Representatives to attend, therefore they have to leave the State to avoid being trucked in.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,209
    MattW said:


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
    The quirky aspect of this to me is that any law should exist that can force Representatives to attend, therefore they have to leave the State to avoid being trucked in.
    MattW said:


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
    The quirky aspect of this to me is that any law should exist that can force Representatives to attend, therefore they have to leave the State to avoid being trucked in.
    Yes, it’s a combination of law about a quorum, combined with another law that says a deserter can be removed from their office.

    All of which likely made perfect sense a century ago, but not in 2025.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    It's a bit of a nothingburger apart from what sounds like a bit of over-push by the letting agent - in overdoing dilapidations.

    She gave them 4 months notice, put it on the market, it failed to sell, and now it is still on the market with new tenants in whilst it continues to be marketed.

    She had previously offered them the chance to stay on a normal rolling contract with 2 months notice; if there are new tenants in then presumably they turned her down. It seems loopy to turn her down if she offered them a rolling contract, since that would avoid a pile of fees for them - but London tenants are strange beasts; I have one T who has been on a monthly rolling contract since 2011.

    The new tenants with have at least a 6 month fixed period as per the law.

    https://archive.is/20250806182656/https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449
    You still haven't told me if you still firmly believe the Chinese robot dog is an "AI fake video"?
    Drop the embroidery.

    I asked a question about a very smooth video; nothing more.
    Lol

    You literally couldn’t believe it and claimed it was fake

  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,406
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
    How many console video games have you bought in the last 10 years?

    Just to sense check your knowledge in what makes a good game.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915
    edited August 6
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    It's a bit of a nothingburger apart from what sounds like a bit of over-push by the letting agent - in overdoing dilapidations.

    She gave them 4 months notice, put it on the market, it failed to sell, and now it is still on the market with new tenants in whilst it continues to be marketed.

    They could have stayed, as she had previously offered them the chance to stay on a normal rolling contract with 2 months notice - I assume whilst she marketed it; if there are new tenants in now then presumably they turned her down.

    It seems loopy to turn her down if she offered them a rolling contract, since that would avoid a pile of fees for them - but London tenants are strange beasts; I have one T who has been on a monthly rolling contract since 2011.

    The new tenants with have at least a 6 month fixed period as per the law.

    https://archive.is/20250806182656/https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449
    Why are you so sure she didn't push for the increase when making it available for rent again?
    If it is still in the initial fixed period she can't propose an increase. But it would be far better financially to keep them in place if she is trying to sell and maintain some income. She could try to increase it if it is at the end of the fixed period and to go to a monthly contract, but it would have been worth offering a 10-15% reduction to keep them there given how the finances work.

    As soon as you go for a T change, you typically lose 2-3 months of rent in costs - there has to be a repair and small refurb for damage etc and smartening up, the Agent will charge at least a month's rent in fees, and then there are inventories and the rest, and there may be a void.

    To try and get an increase when you are selling in a month or 6 would be a mad thing to do. If the tenants leave you have shafted yourself, which is what happened - and she was landed with all the new tenancy costs.

    I'd say she was trying to make sure that she could get possession at 2-3 months notice (a rolling contract is legally 2 clear months plus the remainder of the current rental period), so she could tell the buyer a decently shorty time to completion.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,767
    Nice airport this evening: everyone through the same queue (naughty! Ursula will get you...) in about five minutes.

    The new egates are there, but not in use yet. British flag on them amongst ten others (US etc.)

    €3 per bottle local rouge passable.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891
    edited August 6
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
    How many console video games have you bought in the last 10 years?

    Just to sense check your knowledge in what makes a good game.
    There are so many ways this mode of thinking is delusional

    But let’s take just one. Do you believe the technology is going to stay as it is? Has the development paused? Is this it, is this as good as it gets?

    That’s like saying cars will always be a 1902 Mercedes Benz or mobile phones will always be a brick from Carphone warehouse - no threat to landlines because they weigh 20kg

    Anyone who does a job mainly via a screen has almost no future career
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,265
    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,247

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    But couldn't that be argued for "Don't know" responses in a lot of polling? I assume not including the equivocating option has proven even less reliable, but figuring out what don't knows really think, or at least the direction they lean more towards, I guess is achievable more by analysing other questions which might be on the same poll?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,247
    MattW said:


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    Reminder: they have broken zero laws.
    The quirky aspect of this to me is that any law should exist that can force Representatives to attend, therefore they have to leave the State to avoid being trucked in.
    It certainly doesn't feel very appropriate in a modern democratic state, it feels like a more serious variant of quirky procedures which hang around as no one repeals them, like that state where reps have to affirm they've never fought a duel with deadly weapons.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,247
    Scott_xP said:

    Sandpit said:


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    If ever there was a story that made you want to hate all politicians, thinking that they were only ever out for themselves and don’t give a sh!t about those they are supposed to represent, it’s the story of the Texas government in the past few days.
    It would be entertaining if after gerrymandering every district conservative voters refuse to vote for these asshats
    Would never happen, unfortunately. Ploys like this seem to work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,483

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    Isn't it simple honesty?

    They were a bunch of trials that I didn't pay much attention to. How should anyone have a clue whether they were fair or not, apart from those directly involved?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,247
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    After GTA VI quite possibly.

    But the buildup to this particular release is going to be like nothing else the media industry has ever known. No movie is coming close to it.

    Those of us who are closer to 50 than 40 are buying up PS5s in anticipation, our wives wondering what the Hell we’re doing.

    But every single one of us who was a gamer in the ‘90s and ‘00s is doing it.

    The limitation is going to be the Content Delivery Networks, GTA VI could quite conceivably break the Internet for several days on release.
    I've not gotten into the very latest Rockstar games - just too damn big to be honest - but those who are not into games at all really have no idea how huge 5 already was compared to other media. There's still a lingering thought seen even on here ocasionally gaming is a child's thing people should just stop, with never a thought of applying that to music, books, movies, and other entertainment.

    Most gamers are adults and most games are pitched to them, because they have the money. GTA 6 is going to make a ridiculous amount.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,767
    carnforth said:

    Nice airport this evening: everyone through the same queue (naughty! Ursula will get you...) in about five minutes.

    The new egates are there, but not in use yet. British flag on them amongst ten others (US etc.)

    €3 per bottle local rouge passable.

    Ah, France stands where she did. Half the late night food I bought at the convenience store is a week out of date. A smaller dinner than expected.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,405

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    If you polled me on whether the Lucy Letby case was fair, I would have to be honest and say I don't know. I wasn't in the courtroom for a single day and I've got trust in the jury to make a decision based on the evidence presented but I also can believe that her defence team could have been poor and therefore she didn't have a safe trial. But I don't know, what secret view am I hiding?

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,513


    The Bulwark
    @BulwarkOnline
    ·
    24m
    Abbott: “There are Democrats in the state of Texas right now…the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking and will find them, and they will arrest them and bring them to the Texas Capitol…There's no way for these Democrats to be able to escape justice here.”

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1953183516402876875

    That’s a little unfair… the interviewer talked about “Democrat lawmakers” and that’s the point Abbott was responding to.

    The point on justice was a classic non-sequitur… he didn’t actually allege any lawbreaking…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    edited August 6
    It'll be interesting to watch how these figures change over time. 56% either pro or neutral Nigel is quite good from his point of view.

    YouGov, Farage

    Popular 37%
    Disliked 40%
    Neutral 19%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Nigel_Farage
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,513
    Scott_xP said:
    To be fair that’s probably what it looked like originally (not that I disagree with your aesthetic views).

    But I raise you this:

    https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/this-photograph-taken-on-september-16-2023-shows-the-news-photo/1668720388
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,483
    DM_Andy said:

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    If you polled me on whether the Lucy Letby case was fair, I would have to be honest and say I don't know. I wasn't in the courtroom for a single day and I've got trust in the jury to make a decision based on the evidence presented but I also can believe that her defence team could have been poor and therefore she didn't have a safe trial. But I don't know, what secret view am I hiding?

    Yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

    Nonetheless it does show a fundamental divide between Reform voters and the rest of us. They don't trust any of our institutions. Not the Courts, not Parliament, not the police, not civil servants and certainly not the legacy media.

    They don't believe anything positive about this country
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,777
    Interesting times in trans politics as Reform comes out as more pro-trans than either Labour or the Conservatives.

    The explosion of outrage from very online Terfs has been highly amusing, as has the visible confusion from actual trans people.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    Phil said:

    Interesting times in trans politics as Reform comes out as more pro-trans than either Labour or the Conservatives.

    The explosion of outrage from very online Terfs has been highly amusing, as has the visible confusion from actual trans people.

    Most ordinary people probably don't even know what the word "terfs" means.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,767
    Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    If you polled me on whether the Lucy Letby case was fair, I would have to be honest and say I don't know. I wasn't in the courtroom for a single day and I've got trust in the jury to make a decision based on the evidence presented but I also can believe that her defence team could have been poor and therefore she didn't have a safe trial. But I don't know, what secret view am I hiding?

    Yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

    Nonetheless it does show a fundamental divide between Reform voters and the rest of us. They don't trust any of our institutions. Not the Courts, not Parliament, not the police, not civil servants and certainly not the legacy media.

    They don't believe anything positive about this country
    The illogical conclusion of the end of deference (1950--present)?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,419
    edited August 6

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    You're taking far too big a leap there. I might answer "don't know" on the basis that I don't know whether the trial was handled fairly, not being an expert in a particular case.

    Most people are pretty cautious about stuff like this I think - I know on PB people tend to hold strong opinions about everything down to the choice of paving stone (not basalt, ffs, that's how I smashed my ankle), but I think most of us would be shrug if we met in person and start thinking about the third pint instead.

    Anyway, the real insight from this is Reform live inside a social media bubble. Time and time again, we find their supporters as outliers and they can't comprehend people holdings views different from their own. We still assume social media is a young person's game, but it's my parents sat on their phones as much as me.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,406
    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
    How many console video games have you bought in the last 10 years?

    Just to sense check your knowledge in what makes a good game.
    There are so many ways this mode of thinking is delusional

    But let’s take just one. Do you believe the technology is going to stay as it is? Has the development paused? Is this it, is this as good as it gets?

    That’s like saying cars will always be a 1902 Mercedes Benz or mobile phones will always be a brick from Carphone warehouse - no threat to landlines because they weigh 20kg

    Anyone who does a job mainly via a screen has almost no future career
    I'll take that as 'zero' console games purchased.

    No one is saying AI won't play a role in future game development in automating and making things more efficient.

    But human game makers will continue to have a critical role. To claim otherwise is equivalent to saying AI will reproduce the best of the golden age of TV. Which you'd know if you ever played them.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,767


    Today's photo. Someries Castle, a stone's throw from Luton Airport runway. Fifteenth century brick palace:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Someries_Castle
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    Thanks for the replies earlier about the Michael Crichton novel I was asking about.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,180
    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    God bless you, and all who sail in or around you.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,419
    edited August 6
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
    How many console video games have you bought in the last 10 years?

    Just to sense check your knowledge in what makes a good game.
    There are so many ways this mode of thinking is delusional

    But let’s take just one. Do you believe the technology is going to stay as it is? Has the development paused? Is this it, is this as good as it gets?

    That’s like saying cars will always be a 1902 Mercedes Benz or mobile phones will always be a brick from Carphone warehouse - no threat to landlines because they weigh 20kg

    Anyone who does a job mainly via a screen has almost no future career
    I'll take that as 'zero' console games purchased.

    No one is saying AI won't play a role in future game development in automating and making things more efficient.

    But human game makers will continue to have a critical role. To claim otherwise is equivalent to saying AI will reproduce the best of the golden age of TV. Which you'd know if you ever played them.
    I think this is right. We could get some enormous AI-generated worlds, like in the Elder Scrolls games, but I'm not convinced map size is as important as those flashes of brilliance or that sense of lore and coherence that such games can provide. The games I have put the most hours into often only have a handful of developers, if that. I can't see too much scope for reducing their workload - because their isn't much to begin with.

    It's also the case that some "technologies" haven't moved on much at all - people still go the cinema and film has progressed very slowly indeed. It's not so much that game development might change, but rather something new entirely will pop up. The agricultural revolution didn't mean we all became extremely good at farming - it meant that most of us stopped being farmers.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,982
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    After GTA VI quite possibly.

    But the buildup to this particular release is going to be like nothing else the media industry has ever known. No movie is coming close to it.

    Those of us who are closer to 50 than 40 are buying up PS5s in anticipation, our wives wondering what the Hell we’re doing.

    But every single one of us who was a gamer in the ‘90s and ‘00s is doing it.

    The limitation is going to be the Content Delivery Networks, GTA VI could quite conceivably break the Internet for several days on release.
    For balance - I'm not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    AI will take some of the drudgery out of developing games. For example, it can generate textures, basic art assets and maps that take a lot of work but aren't really creatively exciting. But it can't do the main art, it can't write the code (no matter what the 'vibe coding' morons think) and it can't design a game.

    It'll bring down the cost of developing complex games and enable smaller teams to do things currently beyond their capabilities. Both things the industry needs, given the high cost and stagnant creative quality of games now.
    You are delusional. Sorry
    How many console video games have you bought in the last 10 years?

    Just to sense check your knowledge in what makes a good game.
    There are so many ways this mode of thinking is delusional

    But let’s take just one. Do you believe the technology is going to stay as it is? Has the development paused? Is this it, is this as good as it gets?

    That’s like saying cars will always be a 1902 Mercedes Benz or mobile phones will always be a brick from Carphone warehouse - no threat to landlines because they weigh 20kg

    Anyone who does a job mainly via a screen has almost no future career
    I'll take that as 'zero' console games purchased.

    No one is saying AI won't play a role in future game development in automating and making things more efficient.

    But human game makers will continue to have a critical role. To claim otherwise is equivalent to saying AI will reproduce the best of the golden age of TV. Which you'd know if you ever played them.
    A few humans will have a role. For a while. 90% of those employed right now will not

    If I wasn’t disallowed from commenting further I would explain, and also give evidence, but I am disallowed so there it is. Take it or leave it
  • TresTres Posts: 2,982
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Huge thanks to @Leon for recommending The Leopard (Netflix).

    Best TV series I have watched in a long time.

    You're welcome

    To my mind, it is an absolute masterpiece. And puts to bed my fearful theory that the Golden Age of TV Drama is closing

    It's magnificent in multiple ways - the acting, the casting, the location work, the absurdly luscious food. But also: the music. It is sublime
    Totally agree. Stunning on all fronts. Would that the Beeb could make something like this ever again.

    The lighting should also be added to your list.

    Must of cost a frigging fortune given the crowd scenes, long outdoor sequences with horses etc etc.

    Do Netflix dramas count for Emmys?

    Actually, the BBC's co-pro (with Screen Australia) "The Narrow Road to the Great North" is ALSO a masterpiece. Much bleaker and darker, but I strongly recommend it

    Brutally terse but powerful scriptwriting, a wonderfully sad love story at the heart, and truly horrific scenes of wartime cruelty by the Japanese

    Ticks all the boxes!
    Flanagan is arguably the best novelist of the 21st century.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,419
    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them

    They are baked and packed and cooked and discarded and ready for the bin
    After GTA VI quite possibly.

    But the buildup to this particular release is going to be like nothing else the media industry has ever known. No movie is coming close to it.

    Those of us who are closer to 50 than 40 are buying up PS5s in anticipation, our wives wondering what the Hell we’re doing.

    But every single one of us who was a gamer in the ‘90s and ‘00s is doing it.

    The limitation is going to be the Content Delivery Networks, GTA VI could quite conceivably break the Internet for several days on release.
    For balance - I'm not.
    I am. I'll take at least a week off for it, and I know some of the more senior people in the organisation will do the same. Going to be a funny out-of-office chain - I sense some of the more critical skills are concentrated in the gaming part of the firm.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    edited August 6
    I remember Leon recommending the TV drama about the Romans and their hedonistic behaviour, although I haven't got round to watching it yet. Can't remember the name of the show.
  • Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    If you polled me on whether the Lucy Letby case was fair, I would have to be honest and say I don't know. I wasn't in the courtroom for a single day and I've got trust in the jury to make a decision based on the evidence presented but I also can believe that her defence team could have been poor and therefore she didn't have a safe trial. But I don't know, what secret view am I hiding?

    Yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

    Nonetheless it does show a fundamental divide between Reform voters and the rest of us. They don't trust any of our institutions. Not the Courts, not Parliament, not the police, not civil servants and certainly not the legacy media.

    They don't believe anything positive about this country
    Not one single credible expert presented in her defence..and plenty of people gave evidence who had plenty to lose based on the hospitals performance under their regime..🤔..I'm not surprised people don't trust the verdict, especially when they remember all the previous scandals/cover ups (post office, blood, Hillsborough etc) 🧐
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749
    Andy_JS said:

    I remember Leon recommending the TV drama about the Romans and their hedonistic behaviour, although I haven't got round to watching it yet. Can't remember the name of the show.

    You are thinking of Succesion with Roman Roy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,949

    Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    If you polled me on whether the Lucy Letby case was fair, I would have to be honest and say I don't know. I wasn't in the courtroom for a single day and I've got trust in the jury to make a decision based on the evidence presented but I also can believe that her defence team could have been poor and therefore she didn't have a safe trial. But I don't know, what secret view am I hiding?

    Yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at.

    Nonetheless it does show a fundamental divide between Reform voters and the rest of us. They don't trust any of our institutions. Not the Courts, not Parliament, not the police, not civil servants and certainly not the legacy media.

    They don't believe anything positive about this country
    Not one single credible expert presented in her defence..and plenty of people gave evidence who had plenty to lose based on the hospitals performance under their regime..🤔..I'm not surprised people don't trust the verdict, especially when they remember all the previous scandals/cover ups (post office, blood, Hillsborough etc) 🧐
    There are two possible reasons for that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,601
    Andy_JS said:

    I remember Leon recommending the TV drama about the Romans and their hedonistic behaviour, although I haven't got round to watching it yet. Can't remember the name of the show.

    Up Pompeii!, a classic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,891
    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Twat

    Only joking!

    HB, Boulay
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749
    Leon said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Twat

    Only joking!

    HB, Boulay
    You just had to ruin the emotion you bastard.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,421
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them
    THOUGH.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915
    edited August 6
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous
    As I showed, the Epping riots were animated by the neo-fascist right. If the police said 'fascists', it would have been accurate. We have seen these movements from time to time - the 1920s, the Mosleyites, the 1950s, the National Front through to the 2010s when the BNP went pop.

    And every time they have stupid, self-absorbed, effete fucks like you to be their useful idiots and give them some political cover. You think you are OK because you have your pensioner flat in an area that may not get a demonstration, and some cash in the bank.

    Perhaps it will take you getting caught up in a "protest" and your heroes smashing out all your teeth on the nearest lamp post to jump start the Leon grey cells, but I doubt it is possible.

    The Youtuber you linked to is called Wesley Winter, and is the least unreliable of the people who hang around such demonstrations. He's an opportunistic Youtuber rather than a full-on devotee. Two weeks ago he explained in the Times how he thought a gang of masked men on one of these demos were going to burn his (Chinese ethnicity) wife to death in her car, as they had just burnt the next one along. To wit:

    Down the phone, Winter pleaded with his wife to run but she knew she was outnumbered.

    The gang circled the car yelling at Liu to “get out of the car bitch” and at each other to “just break the window, pull her out”. Moments later, helicopters circled overhead and they scattered “like rats” — just before Winter reached her.

    “I thought I was going to find her dead on the floor,” he said.

    The experience was traumatic for them both. Footage of Liu sobbing and shaking in her husband’s arms is one of the most disturbing scenes in a documentary that never offers easy viewing.

    https://archive.is/20250723134435/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/southport-riot-racist-abuse-pqt36zhrm

    That's who we are dealing with, but I think you are too bumfuzzled to appreciate it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915
    edited August 6
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Labour homelessness minister Rushanara Ali threw four tenants out of her east London townhouse before relisting the property for £700 a month more in rent,

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311

    It's a bit of a nothingburger apart from what sounds like a bit of over-push by the letting agent - in overdoing dilapidations.

    She gave them 4 months notice, put it on the market, it failed to sell, and now it is still on the market with new tenants in whilst it continues to be marketed.

    She had previously offered them the chance to stay on a normal rolling contract with 2 months notice; if there are new tenants in then presumably they turned her down. It seems loopy to turn her down if she offered them a rolling contract, since that would avoid a pile of fees for them - but London tenants are strange beasts; I have one T who has been on a monthly rolling contract since 2011.

    The new tenants with have at least a 6 month fixed period as per the law.

    https://archive.is/20250806182656/https://inews.co.uk/news/homelessness-minister-threw-out-tenants-increased-rent-3846449
    You still haven't told me if you still firmly believe the Chinese robot dog is an "AI fake video"?
    Drop the embroidery.

    I asked a question about a very smooth video; nothing more.
    Lol

    You literally couldn’t believe it and claimed it was fake

    Nope. Crawl back under your stone.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I am surprised we aren't talking about Genie 3 from Deepmind.

    All the stuff that's going on right now is incredible news for small (and even individual) video game developers, and terrible news for the big studios.

    STILL: it is worth remembering that while Rockstar will have spend perhaps $100 million on world building (that Genie 3 can largely automate), most of the effort is in building fund story missions that people want to play. That's what differentiates GTA from (say) MindsEye.

    Great tech, looks amazing, shockingly lacking in anything that could be described as fun.
    GTA VI going to be the biggest release in media history, isn’t it?

    As in several billion dollars in the first week.
    By a mile.

    Game makers are finished, tho, aren't they? As we have known them
    THOUGH.
    Hey, the joys of spelling are not confined to English.

    https://www.tiktok.com/@jeremy.jey/video/7392589740542889249
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,421
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.

    I was there too! You'd have thought we'd have bumped into each other.

    (Phone survived again. Getting silly now how often that happens)
    Last week I turned up with my carnation buttonhole and copy of the times but I didn't see you. You would have thought we would have bumped into one another. Going up again on 15th. Tempting fate regarding the phone. Can't believe I have got away with it so many times.
    There are so few phone thefts in central London there are now special signs glued to all the pavements, warning people about phone thefts in central London

    https://x.com/sam_dumitriu/status/1953135971999924326?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    I posted this nearly TWO WEEKS ago:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5276427#Comment_5276427
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    Sky News paper review: Kemi Badenoch lost her faith in God when she heard about the Josef Fritzel case.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749
    Andy_JS said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
    Thank you
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,116
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous
    As I showed, the Epping riots were animated by the neo-fascist right. If the police said 'fascists', it would have been accurate. We have seen these movements from time to time - the 1920s, the Mosleyites, the 1950s, the National Front through to the 2010s when the BNP went pop.

    And every time they have stupid, self-absorbed, effete fucks like you to be their useful idiots and give them some political cover. You think you are OK because you have your pensioner flat in an area that may not get a demonstration, and some cash in the bank.

    Perhaps it will take you getting caught up in a "protest" and your heroes smashing out all your teeth on the nearest lamp post to jump start the Leon grey cells, but I doubt it is possible.

    The Youtuber you linked to is called Wesley Winter, and is the least unreliable of the people who hang around such demonstrations. He's an opportunistic Youtuber rather than a full-on devotee. Two weeks ago he explained in the Times how he thought a gang of masked men on one of these demos were going to burn his (Chinese ethnicity) wife to death in her car, as they had just burnt the next one along. To wit:

    Down the phone, Winter pleaded with his wife to run but she knew she was outnumbered.

    The gang circled the car yelling at Liu to “get out of the car bitch” and at each other to “just break the window, pull her out”. Moments later, helicopters circled overhead and they scattered “like rats” — just before Winter reached her.

    “I thought I was going to find her dead on the floor,” he said.

    The experience was traumatic for them both. Footage of Liu sobbing and shaking in her husband’s arms is one of the most disturbing scenes in a documentary that never offers easy viewing.

    https://archive.is/20250723134435/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/southport-riot-racist-abuse-pqt36zhrm

    That's who we are dealing with, but I think you are too bumfuzzled to appreciate it.
    Having spent some time watching these protests I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that they are animated by the fat right. They might do the organising behind the scenes and infiltrate some members but there is genuine community anger and concern at the core of them. It's like how left wing protests have a hard core of SWP types doing the organising but with a whole tonne of genuinely concerned students and hippy types mixed in.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,421

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.


    Manchester hin und zuruck--ish!

    Today (6th), I did Heald Green South to Heald Green North (avoiding Manchester Airport) both ways.
    Available due to Avanti/CrossCountry diversions due to Stockport being blocked (until the 22nd).

    Had a bit of a scare on the outbound journey - was "detrained" from the 1033 ex-Euston at Crewe due to a points failure at Wilmslow, but the next Avanti to arrive (1053 ex-Euston) completed the journey into Manchester! And on the return leg, the 1410 ex-Piccadilly was delayed for 15 minutes due to a crew member being delayed on his own journey in from Liverpool.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749
    fitalass said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy Birthday boulay. To be honest I found hitting 40 tougher than hitting 50, but I basically tried to ignore both milestones and fitaloon and our boys knew better than to make any fuss. But I know what you mean about how weird a random year can make you think about life as I will be hitting the next big milestone birthday very soon. I always remember my parents phoning me to wish me a Happy Birthday when I was 40 and admitting to my Mum that I was feeling a bit down about it and being robustly told that was nothing compared to how old it made them feel that morning to realise that their oldest child had just turned 40. 😆
    Thank you. I still feel, and behave, like a poncey 30 year old so it’s quite a shock to be told by law that I’m not. I’m the first of my siblings not to be able to have my father say happy 50th which niggles. I’m partying weirdly for my friends more than for me over the next few days. Would give every bottle of champagne and flirty girl for lunch with my late father though.

    I do now have to decide if need to behave like my concept of a 50 year old or carry on like the louche filthbag that’s worked so well to now. Troubling times.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,513
    Stereodog said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous
    As I showed, the Epping riots were animated by the neo-fascist right. If the police said 'fascists', it would have been accurate. We have seen these movements from time to time - the 1920s, the Mosleyites, the 1950s, the National Front through to the 2010s when the BNP went pop.

    And every time they have stupid, self-absorbed, effete fucks like you to be their useful idiots and give them some political cover. You think you are OK because you have your pensioner flat in an area that may not get a demonstration, and some cash in the bank.

    Perhaps it will take you getting caught up in a "protest" and your heroes smashing out all your teeth on the nearest lamp post to jump start the Leon grey cells, but I doubt it is possible.

    The Youtuber you linked to is called Wesley Winter, and is the least unreliable of the people who hang around such demonstrations. He's an opportunistic Youtuber rather than a full-on devotee. Two weeks ago he explained in the Times how he thought a gang of masked men on one of these demos were going to burn his (Chinese ethnicity) wife to death in her car, as they had just burnt the next one along. To wit:

    Down the phone, Winter pleaded with his wife to run but she knew she was outnumbered.

    The gang circled the car yelling at Liu to “get out of the car bitch” and at each other to “just break the window, pull her out”. Moments later, helicopters circled overhead and they scattered “like rats” — just before Winter reached her.

    “I thought I was going to find her dead on the floor,” he said.

    The experience was traumatic for them both. Footage of Liu sobbing and shaking in her husband’s arms is one of the most disturbing scenes in a documentary that never offers easy viewing.

    https://archive.is/20250723134435/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/southport-riot-racist-abuse-pqt36zhrm

    That's who we are dealing with, but I think you are too bumfuzzled to appreciate it.
    Having spent some time watching these protests I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that they are animated by the fat right. They might do the organising behind the scenes and infiltrate some members but there is genuine community anger and concern at the core of them. It's like how left wing protests have a hard core of SWP types doing the organising but with a whole tonne of genuinely concerned students and hippy types mixed in.
    Somehow the concept of the “fat right” seems… appropriate…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    1975 was a great year. Mel B was born that year as well.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,915
    edited August 6
    Stereodog said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous
    As I showed, the Epping riots were animated by the neo-fascist right. If the police said 'fascists', it would have been accurate. We have seen these movements from time to time - the 1920s, the Mosleyites, the 1950s, the National Front through to the 2010s when the BNP went pop.

    And every time they have stupid, self-absorbed, effete fucks like you to be their useful idiots and give them some political cover. You think you are OK because you have your pensioner flat in an area that may not get a demonstration, and some cash in the bank.

    Perhaps it will take you getting caught up in a "protest" and your heroes smashing out all your teeth on the nearest lamp post to jump start the Leon grey cells, but I doubt it is possible.

    The Youtuber you linked to is called Wesley Winter, and is the least unreliable of the people who hang around such demonstrations. He's an opportunistic Youtuber rather than a full-on devotee. Two weeks ago he explained in the Times how he thought a gang of masked men on one of these demos were going to burn his (Chinese ethnicity) wife to death in her car, as they had just burnt the next one along. To wit:

    Down the phone, Winter pleaded with his wife to run but she knew she was outnumbered.

    The gang circled the car yelling at Liu to “get out of the car bitch” and at each other to “just break the window, pull her out”. Moments later, helicopters circled overhead and they scattered “like rats” — just before Winter reached her.

    “I thought I was going to find her dead on the floor,” he said.

    The experience was traumatic for them both. Footage of Liu sobbing and shaking in her husband’s arms is one of the most disturbing scenes in a documentary that never offers easy viewing.

    https://archive.is/20250723134435/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/southport-riot-racist-abuse-pqt36zhrm

    That's who we are dealing with, but I think you are too bumfuzzled to appreciate it.
    Having spent some time watching these protests I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that they are animated by the fat right. They might do the organising behind the scenes and infiltrate some members but there is genuine community anger and concern at the core of them. It's like how left wing protests have a hard core of SWP types doing the organising but with a whole tonne of genuinely concerned students and hippy types mixed in.
    I'll aim to come back to your points in the morning.

    For now, by "animate" I mean encourage and provoke, rather than 'organise'. So the Ashfield demonstration was animated mainly on social media by two figures - Lee Anderson with his tweet (read 3+ million times last time I looked) claiming that the suspect for the alleged rape was an "asylum seeker", and a man called "Alan Leggett", who came to attention as a Tommy Robinson sidekick.

    Leggett tries to be a "citizen journalist", making videos over the last 3-4 years and at migrant accommodation sites, and trying to stir things up. Ashfield was all over his Active Patriot Facebook page for a couple of days, with a lot of commentary.

    Ashfield was peaceful - but noisy and sweary; there was police presence but not a huge presence, about 3 riots vans.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,421
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
    Thank you
    Many Happy Returns!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,933
    Andy_JS said:

    1975 was a great year. Mel B was born that year as well.

    Bloody hell, she's 50
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,421
    Andy_JS said:

    1975 was a great year. Mel B was born that year as well.

    And yours truly :)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.


    Manchester hin und zuruck--ish!

    Today (6th), I did Heald Green South to Heald Green North (avoiding Manchester Airport) both ways.
    Available due to Avanti/CrossCountry diversions due to Stockport being blocked (until the 22nd).

    Had a bit of a scare on the outbound journey - was "detrained" from the 1033 ex-Euston at Crewe due to a points failure at Wilmslow, but the next Avanti to arrive (1053 ex-Euston) completed the journey into Manchester! And on the return leg, the 1410 ex-Piccadilly was delayed for 15 minutes due to a crew member being delayed on his own journey in from Liverpool.
    Do you have any significant train journeys still to do in the UK? The most interesting one I've done is probably Belfast to Derry/Londonderry.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,949
    Andy_JS said:

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.


    Manchester hin und zuruck--ish!

    Today (6th), I did Heald Green South to Heald Green North (avoiding Manchester Airport) both ways.
    Available due to Avanti/CrossCountry diversions due to Stockport being blocked (until the 22nd).

    Had a bit of a scare on the outbound journey - was "detrained" from the 1033 ex-Euston at Crewe due to a points failure at Wilmslow, but the next Avanti to arrive (1053 ex-Euston) completed the journey into Manchester! And on the return leg, the 1410 ex-Piccadilly was delayed for 15 minutes due to a crew member being delayed on his own journey in from Liverpool.
    Do you have any significant train journeys still to do in the UK? The most interesting one I've done is probably Belfast to Derry/Londonderry.
    I would love to do the Belfast to Dublin train journey
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,789
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I have spent most of today in central London wearing my Breitling.

    I can confirm I wasn’t mugged and I am now on the way back home.


    Manchester hin und zuruck--ish!

    Today (6th), I did Heald Green South to Heald Green North (avoiding Manchester Airport) both ways.
    Available due to Avanti/CrossCountry diversions due to Stockport being blocked (until the 22nd).

    Had a bit of a scare on the outbound journey - was "detrained" from the 1033 ex-Euston at Crewe due to a points failure at Wilmslow, but the next Avanti to arrive (1053 ex-Euston) completed the journey into Manchester! And on the return leg, the 1410 ex-Piccadilly was delayed for 15 minutes due to a crew member being delayed on his own journey in from Liverpool.
    Do you have any significant train journeys still to do in the UK? The most interesting one I've done is probably Belfast to Derry/Londonderry.
    I would love to do the Belfast to Dublin train journey
    That's on my bucket list as well.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,949
    Andy_JS said:

    1975 was a great year. Mel B was born that year as well.

    Second only to 1974.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,119
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
    Thank you
    Happy birthday. I hope,you remember it.

    I am 60 next month. I can promise next 20 years will fly by.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
    Thank you
    Happy birthday. I hope,you remember it.

    I am 60 next month. I can promise next 20 years will fly by.

    And the next...

    Happy birthday, boulay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    Apple paying tribute to Trump.

    Tim Cook: It is engraved for President Trump. It is a unique unit of one. And the base comes from Utah, and is 24 karat gold.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1953204242459881927
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,169
    Where did the Black Death—the deadliest pandemic in recorded history—truly begin?

    For centuries, its origins were shrouded in mystery. But a forgotten cemetery near Lake Issyk Kul in Kyrgyzstan has revealed stunning new evidence. In this documentary-style deep dive, we explore how 800-year-old graves, ancient inscriptions, and cutting-edge DNA analysis led scientists to pinpoint the true birthplace of the plague that killed tens of millions across Europe, Asia, and North Africa.

    Learn how a single strain of Yersinia pestis, preserved in the teeth of medieval plague victims, was identified as the ancestral source of the Black Death. Discover how trade routes, climate change, and human mobility allowed a microscopic killer to reshape global history—and how modern science finally uncovered the origin of it all.

    Based on groundbreaking research published in Science, this is the story of how the past continues to speak through stone, bone, and DNA.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjLNxIf2lXk

    An eight-minute video on the origins and spread along the silk road to the crowded and dirty cities of Europe, where it killed roughly half the population. Spoiler: not a lab leak.

    Source article from 2022 but the video is better as it shows the microbial taxonomy and evolution:-
    Gibbons, Ann. 800-year-old graves pinpoint where the Black Death began.
    https://www.science.org/content/article/800-year-old-graves-pinpoint-where-black-death-began
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,169
    Betting duty changes.

    Speculation that the Chancellor will raise and unify betting duty has been widespread, and has alarmed the horseracing industry in particular. From our point of view, as political (and sports) punters, it is important to maintain the distinction between skilful betting and games of chance.

    Here is a recent report and proposal:-

    The Duty to Differentiate: How gambling tax reform can raise revenue for the Government, reduce harm to the public and save British horse racing
    https://www.smf.co.uk/publications/online-gambling-tax-reform/


    Gordon Brown's proposals are near the end of his op-ed in the Guardian. The first 80 per cent is about child poverty. The part about betting is:-

    The gambling industry is a licence to print money. Tax it properly – and turbocharge the fight against child poverty

    Excluding the lottery, betting and gaming was an £11.5bn sector last year that incurred only £2.5bn in tax. As much as £3bn extra can be raised from taxing it properly. Remote gaming duty (effectively the tax on online slots games) is about 35% in the Netherlands, 40% in Austria, 50% in Pennsylvania and 57% in tax haven Delaware, two of the few US states where it is legal. Yet the same activity is taxed at just 21% in the UK, raising only £1bn. Applying a 50% levy – much less than the 80% tax on cigarettes and the 70% tax on whisky – would raise £1.6bn more. Raising the general betting duty on bookmakers’ profits from 15% to 25% could generate an additional £450m, after returning £100m as additional support to boost the horseracing industry.

    To achieve parity with their online equivalents, machine game duty payable on the revenue from in-person slot machines should also increase from 25% to 50%. According to IPPR estimates, this would raise an additional £880m.

    The government could then start to reduce child poverty. Unlike almost all other businesses, most gaming and betting is exempt from VAT. Its most addictive practices are responsible for social harm that costs the NHS and other public services more than £1bn a year.

    Gambling levies aren’t the only source of revenue that could pay to alleviate child poverty. But this should be one straightforward budget choice. The government can fulfil today’s unmet needs by taxing an undertaxed sector. Gambling won’t build our country for the next generation, but children, freed from poverty, will.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/06/gambling-industry-profitable-tax-fight-child-poverty

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,749
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    boulay said:



    Ladies (?) and gentlemen of PB, this is my last hour of being in my forties, I’m moving into Joe Root batting territory so I could be out next ball or reach a ripe century. It’s weird how a random year can make you think about life but it does. Away from my personal weighing and measuring, I want to thank PB and you fuckers for making the odd moment since 2007 enjoyable/frustrating/amusing/bearable.

    Whatever our conflicts, our petty enmities, spats, bemusements, thank you for the hours of absolute boredom you have made just slightly less boring.

    Might be the last vaguely sober chance to thank you all over the next few days so had to get it out of the way.

    Onwards.

    Happy birthday!
    Thank you
    Happy birthday. I hope,you remember it.

    I am 60 next month. I can promise next 20 years will fly by.

    And the next...

    Happy birthday, boulay.
    We have to remember that we can be utter arses to each other on here but we can wish each other a happy birthday and care when things go wrong. It’s a marvellous community, apart from @Mexicanpete ,only joking.


  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,312
    Stereodog said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    FPT...

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Not a good look for the police

    A copper calls the asylum hotel protestors "fascists"

    https://x.com/WesleyWinterYT/status/1952725444635095294

    No shit, Sherlock !

    Did it have anything to do with all the people leading the Epping protests associated with The Homeland Party, Britain First, Blood and Honour, former Combat 18, former BNP, former National Front, British Democrats ... ?

    (Clue: if you don't want to be described as a fascist, don't go to demonstrations they are running.)

    You really DO need to wake up and smell some coffee.

    Even the one in Ashfield, which was basically peaceful, was largely provoked by a guy called Alan Leggett, who was a sidekick of Ten Prison Terms Tommy, before he tried to go on his own.
    The original claim has now been debunked. The police office did not say "fascists". See https://x.com/EssexPoliceUK/status/1952848564847014000
    lol. When I posted this claim yesterday then every lefty on here simply said “well, they are fascists”, “what do these fascists expect?”, “that’s good police work” etc etc
    I wouldn't call myself a leftie.

    And I did demonstrate the accuracy if the police (now) *had* called them fascists, in that the demo was animated by specific such groups - notably and most prominently the Homeland Party. They are a splinter group of Patriotic Alternative; their leader is a former BNP candidate. The chap on the pickup making a speech was from that group.

    You need to take a serious look at just who you are fluffing, and for whom you are being a useful idiot.

    But since you play a character here, you may not actually believe this stuff.
    You are completely ludicrous
    As I showed, the Epping riots were animated by the neo-fascist right. If the police said 'fascists', it would have been accurate. We have seen these movements from time to time - the 1920s, the Mosleyites, the 1950s, the National Front through to the 2010s when the BNP went pop.

    And every time they have stupid, self-absorbed, effete fucks like you to be their useful idiots and give them some political cover. You think you are OK because you have your pensioner flat in an area that may not get a demonstration, and some cash in the bank.

    Perhaps it will take you getting caught up in a "protest" and your heroes smashing out all your teeth on the nearest lamp post to jump start the Leon grey cells, but I doubt it is possible.

    The Youtuber you linked to is called Wesley Winter, and is the least unreliable of the people who hang around such demonstrations. He's an opportunistic Youtuber rather than a full-on devotee. Two weeks ago he explained in the Times how he thought a gang of masked men on one of these demos were going to burn his (Chinese ethnicity) wife to death in her car, as they had just burnt the next one along. To wit:

    Down the phone, Winter pleaded with his wife to run but she knew she was outnumbered.

    The gang circled the car yelling at Liu to “get out of the car bitch” and at each other to “just break the window, pull her out”. Moments later, helicopters circled overhead and they scattered “like rats” — just before Winter reached her.

    “I thought I was going to find her dead on the floor,” he said.

    The experience was traumatic for them both. Footage of Liu sobbing and shaking in her husband’s arms is one of the most disturbing scenes in a documentary that never offers easy viewing.

    https://archive.is/20250723134435/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/southport-riot-racist-abuse-pqt36zhrm

    That's who we are dealing with, but I think you are too bumfuzzled to appreciate it.
    Having spent some time watching these protests I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that they are animated by the fat right. They might do the organising behind the scenes and infiltrate some members but there is genuine community anger and concern at the core of them. It's like how left wing protests have a hard core of SWP types doing the organising but with a whole tonne of genuinely concerned students and hippy types mixed in.
    Apt description from the pics.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    TBF to the old fool, he's not alone in this.

    Boris Johnson, "I don't mind if ChatGPT makes things up or gets things wrong. Because it's so polite and so good for my ego.. Imagine having a friend who tells you have a brilliant original idea, you're so clever"..
    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953134448083378455
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,468
    edited August 7
    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line.

    I remember a few years after the EU referendum reading an article where a German Minister admitted they had been really badly advised over the UK EU referendum and they had been told that there was no way the UK would vote to leave and therefore there was absolutely no need set a precedent by making any concessions. And then Covid hit, and to this day I remain glad we set our own investment path when it came to finding a not for profit vaccine and getting that vaccine into arms far easier than the EU ever did despite the way they tried to trash it to their own detriment.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,059
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line.

    I remember a few years after the EU referendum reading an article where a German Minister admitted they had been really badly advised over the UK EU referendum and they had been told that there was no way the UK would vote to leave and therefore there was absolutely no need set a precedent by making any concessions. And then Covid hit, and to this day I remain glad we set our own investment path when it came to finding a not for profit vaccine and getting that vaccine into arms far easier than the EU ever did despite the way they tried to trash it to their own detriment.
    Sir Craig Oliver’s book is instructive on this point. He said they were going for talks with Merkel knowing that they were utterly pointless. She knew Cameron was going to back Remain so she didn’t have to give him anything.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,265
    Eabhal said:

    The polling is intriguing, but not really for the reasons stated in the header.

    What's actually interesting is the don't knows. I really think very few actually 'don't know', and there's no social reason why those who think it was handled fairly would move to 'don't know', so we must assume a good chunk of the don't knows actually think it wasn't handled particularly fairly.

    Labour's don't know figure is worrying for them, but the Lib Dems is astronomical! It practically equals those who thought it was fair!

    You're taking far too big a leap there. I might answer "don't know" on the basis that I don't know whether the trial was handled fairly, not being an expert in a particular case.

    Most people are pretty cautious about stuff like this I think - I know on PB people tend to hold strong opinions about everything down to the choice of paving stone (not basalt, ffs, that's how I smashed my ankle), but I think most of us would be shrug if we met in person and start thinking about the third pint instead.

    Anyway, the real insight from this is Reform live inside a social media bubble. Time and time again, we find their supporters as outliers and they can't comprehend people holdings views different from their own. We still assume social media is a young person's game, but it's my parents sat on their phones as much as me.
    That's not an insight, it's an interpretation - you choose to take the data entirely at face value, when we know that people give less than accurate information to pollsters about their own views, especially on an issue like this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,947
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,468
    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,468
    tlg86 said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line.

    I remember a few years after the EU referendum reading an article where a German Minister admitted they had been really badly advised over the UK EU referendum and they had been told that there was no way the UK would vote to leave and therefore there was absolutely no need set a precedent by making any concessions. And then Covid hit, and to this day I remain glad we set our own investment path when it came to finding a not for profit vaccine and getting that vaccine into arms far easier than the EU ever did despite the way they tried to trash it to their own detriment.
    Sir Craig Oliver’s book is instructive on this point. He said they were going for talks with Merkel knowing that they were utterly pointless. She knew Cameron was going to back Remain so she didn’t have to give him anything.
    Again, just highlights my main point, the ill informed arrogance of the key EU leaders during the EU referendum campaign was breathtakingly stupid.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,747
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is in fact not quite true. Cameron banned the EU or its senior figures from taking further part in the campaign even though several of them wanted to, as he recognised this would be counterproductive. The unpopularity of EU officials and leaders was and indeed is part of the problem not part of the solution.

    To this day, Jean-Claude Juncker believes Remain would have won if he could have campaigned for it. Which goes to show he’s not only a drunk and a fascist but also a delusional twat.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,265
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is genuinely touching and your loyalty to Cameron does you credit. However, I believe the opposite. I believe that Juncker and the member state heads of government would have given Cameron real concessions that put Britain on an outer layer of the EU, and whilst I don't think he would have got an end to free movement, enough changes on benefits lay within his own powers to lessen the saliency of EU migration considerably. That would have scraped a remain win. His 'deal' was not one because he was confident in delivering a Remain vote regardless, and he actually didn't want a two speed Europe.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,483
    edited August 7
    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is in fact not quite true. Cameron banned the EU or its senior figures from taking further part in the campaign even though several of them wanted to, as he recognised this would be counterproductive. The unpopularity of EU officials and leaders was and indeed is part of the problem not part of the solution.

    To this day, Jean-Claude Juncker believes Remain would have won if he could have campaigned for it. Which goes to show he’s not only a drunk and a fascist but also a delusional twat.
    The Remain campaign was very poor, as I posted here at the time. It was all project fear and negativity, with very little positivity or idealism. A marked contrast with the 1975 one, and it couldn't have been worse if significant EU figures had been involved, and might have been a lot better.

    The national malaise that "Britain is Broken" largely stems from the 2016 referendum when people are asked, and there is a strong majority that the decision was wrong. The wrong lesson has been learned and that catastrophic decision looks likely to elevate its chief architect to Downing St. It has destroyed the Tories as a functioning party too. It isn't going to end well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,747
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is in fact not quite true. Cameron banned the EU or its senior figures from taking further part in the campaign even though several of them wanted to, as he recognised this would be counterproductive. The unpopularity of EU officials and leaders was and indeed is part of the problem not part of the solution.

    To this day, Jean-Claude Juncker believes Remain would have won if he could have campaigned for it. Which goes to show he’s not only a drunk and a fascist but also a delusional twat.
    The Remain campaign was very poor, as I posted here at the time. It was all project fear and negativity, with very little positivity or idealism. A marked contrast with the 1975 one, and it couldn't have been worse if significant EU figures had been involved, and might have been a lot better.

    The national malaise that "Britain is Broken" largely stems from the 2016 referendum when people are aked, and there is a strong majority that the decision was wrong. The wrong lesson has been learned and that catastrophic decision looks likely to elevate its chief architect to Downing St. It has destroyed the Tories as a functioning party too. It isn't going to end well.
    Er...no. Given how unpopular they were, bringing them in would probably have altered the result, but to 60/40 leave rather than 52/48.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,265
    edited August 7
    It is simply a shocking, nay criminal injustice that this rib-tickingly good post of mine about Boris Johnson's balls didn't get 5 likes. Why PB, WHY.

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I do think there's an interesting question of Reform's relatively (obviously the position they are in is quite spectacular by any objective measure) muted performance in Wales. I do wonder if their 'send them down the pitts' approach has been a flop. I completely agree that coal should be on the table, and that Wales should have more dependable energy industry jobs, but I don't think their policy has really landed.


    The last poll showed Reform at 28% and largest party in Wales. This is about right. As in Scotland Reform has another populist competitor unlike England. PC is not as strong as SNP so Reform does a bit better.

    May 2026 is approaching fast and I see little to stop the car crash for the big two parties that the polls and byelections predict. If Labour end up 3rd in both Scotland and Wales and wiped out at council level in much of England I dont really see a way back for them and most of their MPs will be looking for a new job.

    And as for the Tories finishing 4th in both Scotland and Wales?
    The Tories are increasingly becoming irrelevant. They probably have one last roll of the dice in Kemi’s replacement (or have to hope Reform implodes), otherwise minor party status or an eventual reverse takeover by Reform looms.
    Reform are also very much dependent on Farage's charisma, if he went the Tories would be clearly back ahead of them again soon enough
    Is there anyone in the Tory party with any charisma, though? (Excluding yourself, obviously 😄).
    Boris, Farage was firmly back in his box when Boris was PM and Tory leader
    The state of Boris these days. Normally leaders age when in power, Boris seems to have gone downhill rapidly, like somebody trapped on a tropical island. I keep expecting him to pop up doing a video about his ball called Winston.
    And the other one called Clementine?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,483
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is in fact not quite true. Cameron banned the EU or its senior figures from taking further part in the campaign even though several of them wanted to, as he recognised this would be counterproductive. The unpopularity of EU officials and leaders was and indeed is part of the problem not part of the solution.

    To this day, Jean-Claude Juncker believes Remain would have won if he could have campaigned for it. Which goes to show he’s not only a drunk and a fascist but also a delusional twat.
    The Remain campaign was very poor, as I posted here at the time. It was all project fear and negativity, with very little positivity or idealism. A marked contrast with the 1975 one, and it couldn't have been worse if significant EU figures had been involved, and might have been a lot better.

    The national malaise that "Britain is Broken" largely stems from the 2016 referendum when people are aked, and there is a strong majority that the decision was wrong. The wrong lesson has been learned and that catastrophic decision looks likely to elevate its chief architect to Downing St. It has destroyed the Tories as a functioning party too. It isn't going to end well.
    Er...no. Given how unpopular they were, bringing them in would probably have altered the result, but to 60/40 leave rather than 52/48.
    We can never know, but it certainly have been a more informed debate. Don't project your own dislikes on the whole electorate.

    A decisive 60/40 split would incidentally have been better than 52/48.

    Brexit is as significant as the Suez crisis as a waypoint in national decline.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,146

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