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Was Edwin Collins even there?kinabalu said:Rewatching Live Aid, you realize how special Collins was in his pomp.
Phil's best work was the drum solo intro on There's something going on by ABBA's Frida.
The day belonged to Freddie. Until then I wasn't a fan.
Past their best, shit band of the day? The Boomtown Rats. And I really liked Don't like Mondays and Rattrap.0 -
I admired Torode's refusal to go on the equality re-education and tell them to stuff it.kinabalu said:
A pretext then perhaps. I recall City days when somebody unwanted would often be found to have porn on their computer.Malmesbury said:Talking of music. It appears that the John Toride sacking was about him using the “n” word while karaoke singing a Kanye West song. At an after work event.
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Yes we’ve discussed this before and you’re largely right (with the huge and striking exception of the smartphone)Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
However, this is about to change, majorly. In the next few years. A long odd period of cultural stasis is coming to an explosive end0 -
And talking about music, I saw the extremely good This Bitter Earth the other day wherein one of the characters (played by Omari Douglas, reliably superb) put on "Black is the Colour of my True Love's Hair" by Nina Simone.
I had got to the grand old age of XX(X) without ever knowing that that song existed. Unbelievable.
The song is superb, obvs.2 -
Music ended in 1996 as prophesied by the Mayan long count. Everything since has been what a retarded duck thinks music might have been.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
Morning all
Edit - typing this i see others have similar views.
I also ended in 1996 and have had no original thoughts since0 -
Phil Collins still suffers from that period where he was absolutely everywhere and filled all the radio playlists. I think that had a lot of impact - simple overexposure.boulay said:
Phil Collins is very good - Peter Gabriel seems to have more “cred” and whilst he’s done some great music, Phil Collins has made huge hits for decades but still a bit mocked, think of when Steven Gerrard got into that fight at a bar for demanding they play Phil Collins on the Jukebox or the monologue in American Psycho - would it have worked so well with an artist considered “cool”?Leon said:
Perhaps. Phil Collins is another classic example - tho he was good rather than great like the Bee Geesboulay said:
I think it’s more a British thing about snootiness to Coldplay, I don’t mind them, have a few of their albums on CD, was at UCL the same time as them and probably saw them playing in one of the unions in an early incarnation. I don’t think they are mocked to the same level internationally.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
They are however a cipher for a sort of “meh”. Like people might fling around “centrist dads” as a trope for that middle of the road, not overly exciting but large scale phenomenon they allow for a bit of piss taking.
Their music isn’t edgy, it’s very well done and they’ve evolved into a huge stadium band.
I don’t think it’s any sort of middle class affectation just easy ribbing due to them being a bit non-edgy. The Bee-Gees have an amazing canon of work which they fronted or wrote for others, don’t know how they were viewed at their peak, Barry Manilow was supremely popular and talented but is a bit of a joke culturally. It will always happen with pretty clean cut successful entertainers.
But I note it is ALWAYS the same dull midwit people who make these tedious Coldplay remarks, hoping they are amusing. They’re not amusing, they don’t actually display a sense of humour; they’re a kind of ersatz “humour” - like coffee made out of chicory during the war
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We may have reached a local maxima for 'pop' music. But the other side to that is that I can easily access stuff I'd probably never even hear about in the 90s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.1 -
Though that iteration of Clive Anderson did give us one of my favourite moments of television comedy: Anderson interviewing Peter Cook, as four different characters.kinabalu said:
Yes, I was with Barry on that. I'm not a fan of the smartarse roasting genre.Leon said:
I was only teasing Mister @Cookie. Tho he is totally wrong about Coldplaykinabalu said:
It's a good point about the Gibb genetic inequity though. The youngest and oldest brothers were heartthrob hansdome, the middle two not so much. Also, unusually, they died in reverse order. The youngest first, the oldest (Barry) still with us.Leon said:
This is the worst comment you have ever made. I’m now beginning to doubt the supposed merits of northern England, which you persuasively avow, upon occasionCookie said:
Well I'll bite on this, cos I'm a massive music snob.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
I'd argue the disdain for Coldplay is of a different stripe to that for the BeeGees.
Coldplay are *fine*. They do some well-crafted pop songs. It's just that I can't imagine how anyone could be so enthused by them as to want to shell out vast amounts to go and listen to them live (apart from a 15 year old autistic boy I know, who is very very keen). In most cases I wouldn't go out of my way to turn them off as I would with, say, something by Stock Aitken and Waterman. But nor would I ever choose to listen to them. They are well-crafted background music. They are music for people who don't like music.
Whereas the Beegees are the opposite. Both brilliant AND ridiculous. They are both loveable and hateable depending on taste, which is a far superior thing to be.
Back in 2023, I had a Telegraph subscription, and it was worth it for this article alone - a review of a book about the Bee Gees by Bob Stanley of St Ettiene fame - though how much of my enjoyment is down to the reviewer and how much to Bob Stanley, I don't know (I never got round to reading the book - perhaps I should):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/bee-gees-children-of-the-world-by-bob-stanley-review/?msockid=2e08108726996980126002ac27a16810
Highlights of the review included:
- Musings on the name "it sounded like someone was trying to say Beach Boys, but then lost heart"
- Reflections on the uneven hand nature had dealt the three brothers - one of whom looks like a 70s idea of a heartthrob, the other two looking like circus freakshows.
- The very strangeness of early Bee Gees lyrics e.g. Massachusetts:
"And the lights all went out in Massachusetts
And Massachusetts is one place I have seen" - starts off profound and quickly falls away to inane.
Their biographies were full of oddness. And, just go and look at some BeeGees videos on Youtube. Just look at them and try to keep a straight face.
A friend of mine once lived in a house in Chorlton owned by the BeeGees, or at least whichever of them were still alive. Decent landlords, by her account.
Anyway, the BeeGees. Definitely worthy of anyone's time but also definitely ridiculous.
That IS an interesting article about the Bee Gees. They really didn’t get the respect they deserve during their time - perhaps because they were so protean
I remember when they stormed out of a talk show hosted by Clive Anderson because he cruelly mocked them for ten straight minutes at the start. Lots of people thought they were being precious but I was cheering them on
Because the Bee Gees were fucking legends and Clive Anderson is a stupid lame lawyer-comic who is now almost entirely forgotten, and he wasn’t even funny
Show some respect, you tit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSKLtpUASU1 -
Nickleback- " hold my pint!"Leon said:
Perhaps. Phil Collins is another classic example - tho he was good rather than great like the Bee Geesboulay said:
I think it’s more a British thing about snootiness to Coldplay, I don’t mind them, have a few of their albums on CD, was at UCL the same time as them and probably saw them playing in one of the unions in an early incarnation. I don’t think they are mocked to the same level internationally.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
They are however a cipher for a sort of “meh”. Like people might fling around “centrist dads” as a trope for that middle of the road, not overly exciting but large scale phenomenon they allow for a bit of piss taking.
Their music isn’t edgy, it’s very well done and they’ve evolved into a huge stadium band.
I don’t think it’s any sort of middle class affectation just easy ribbing due to them being a bit non-edgy. The Bee-Gees have an amazing canon of work which they fronted or wrote for others, don’t know how they were viewed at their peak, Barry Manilow was supremely popular and talented but is a bit of a joke culturally. It will always happen with pretty clean cut successful entertainers.
But I note it is ALWAYS the same dull midwit people who make these tedious Coldplay remarks, hoping they are amusing. They’re not amusing, they don’t actually display a sense of humour; they’re a kind of ersatz “humour” - like coffee made out of chicory during the war0 -
He was everywhere. The star of Buster and multiple cameos in Miami Vice.numbertwelve said:
Phil Collins still suffers from that period where he was absolutely everywhere and filled all the radio playlists. I think that had a lot of impact - simple overexposure.boulay said:
Phil Collins is very good - Peter Gabriel seems to have more “cred” and whilst he’s done some great music, Phil Collins has made huge hits for decades but still a bit mocked, think of when Steven Gerrard got into that fight at a bar for demanding they play Phil Collins on the Jukebox or the monologue in American Psycho - would it have worked so well with an artist considered “cool”?Leon said:
Perhaps. Phil Collins is another classic example - tho he was good rather than great like the Bee Geesboulay said:
I think it’s more a British thing about snootiness to Coldplay, I don’t mind them, have a few of their albums on CD, was at UCL the same time as them and probably saw them playing in one of the unions in an early incarnation. I don’t think they are mocked to the same level internationally.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
They are however a cipher for a sort of “meh”. Like people might fling around “centrist dads” as a trope for that middle of the road, not overly exciting but large scale phenomenon they allow for a bit of piss taking.
Their music isn’t edgy, it’s very well done and they’ve evolved into a huge stadium band.
I don’t think it’s any sort of middle class affectation just easy ribbing due to them being a bit non-edgy. The Bee-Gees have an amazing canon of work which they fronted or wrote for others, don’t know how they were viewed at their peak, Barry Manilow was supremely popular and talented but is a bit of a joke culturally. It will always happen with pretty clean cut successful entertainers.
But I note it is ALWAYS the same dull midwit people who make these tedious Coldplay remarks, hoping they are amusing. They’re not amusing, they don’t actually display a sense of humour; they’re a kind of ersatz “humour” - like coffee made out of chicory during the war2 -
Isn’t this partly because we have less common cultural reference points? If you look back at the time before the late noughties, a lot of things we remember are as a result of TV moments everyone watched, bands everyone followed, stories everyone read.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The internet is the culprit. I don’t need to listen or watch what the BBC want me to - I can listen to and watch whatever I like, from whatever era, instantly.0 -
Phil C produced music to be a pleasurable experience like many of the now mocked or derided. Sad little boys and girls who think musical taste is purely an 'edgy' accessory or are out and out swivel eyed cultists fortunately don't own music.numbertwelve said:
Phil Collins still suffers from that period where he was absolutely everywhere and filled all the radio playlists. I think that had a lot of impact - simple overexposure.boulay said:
Phil Collins is very good - Peter Gabriel seems to have more “cred” and whilst he’s done some great music, Phil Collins has made huge hits for decades but still a bit mocked, think of when Steven Gerrard got into that fight at a bar for demanding they play Phil Collins on the Jukebox or the monologue in American Psycho - would it have worked so well with an artist considered “cool”?Leon said:
Perhaps. Phil Collins is another classic example - tho he was good rather than great like the Bee Geesboulay said:
I think it’s more a British thing about snootiness to Coldplay, I don’t mind them, have a few of their albums on CD, was at UCL the same time as them and probably saw them playing in one of the unions in an early incarnation. I don’t think they are mocked to the same level internationally.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
They are however a cipher for a sort of “meh”. Like people might fling around “centrist dads” as a trope for that middle of the road, not overly exciting but large scale phenomenon they allow for a bit of piss taking.
Their music isn’t edgy, it’s very well done and they’ve evolved into a huge stadium band.
I don’t think it’s any sort of middle class affectation just easy ribbing due to them being a bit non-edgy. The Bee-Gees have an amazing canon of work which they fronted or wrote for others, don’t know how they were viewed at their peak, Barry Manilow was supremely popular and talented but is a bit of a joke culturally. It will always happen with pretty clean cut successful entertainers.
But I note it is ALWAYS the same dull midwit people who make these tedious Coldplay remarks, hoping they are amusing. They’re not amusing, they don’t actually display a sense of humour; they’re a kind of ersatz “humour” - like coffee made out of chicory during the war
One More Night is, for example, a beautiful song.
The Everly Brothers could fart better music in their sleep than *insert wanky Glasto twat here*
But cool is the rule at school dudez0 -
Clive Anderson vs The Bee Gees
https://youtu.be/YcTYTDODV9Y?si=bu46WBIEaI1KS7fh
About seven minutes in, Barry’s leg starts to swing… he’s getting angry! Matt Lucas & David Williams did a send up of this interview with Jamie Theakston cast as Anderson
https://youtu.be/pOD9Nw2hIXU?si=VyKapzk9n_GR8CVm0 -
I've just watched the clip on YouTube and it looks like it was quite good-natured. I suspect the beegees walked out for effect.Cookie said:
Yes, me too. I remember that incident. I was on the BeeGees side too.kinabalu said:
Yes, I was with Barry on that. I'm not a fan of the smartarse roasting genre.Leon said:
I was only teasing Mister @Cookie. Tho he is totally wrong about Coldplaykinabalu said:
It's a good point about the Gibb genetic inequity though. The youngest and oldest brothers were heartthrob hansdome, the middle two not so much. Also, unusually, they died in reverse order. The youngest first, the oldest (Barry) still with us.Leon said:
This is the worst comment you have ever made. I’m now beginning to doubt the supposed merits of northern England, which you persuasively avow, upon occasionCookie said:
Well I'll bite on this, cos I'm a massive music snob.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
I'd argue the disdain for Coldplay is of a different stripe to that for the BeeGees.
Coldplay are *fine*. They do some well-crafted pop songs. It's just that I can't imagine how anyone could be so enthused by them as to want to shell out vast amounts to go and listen to them live (apart from a 15 year old autistic boy I know, who is very very keen). In most cases I wouldn't go out of my way to turn them off as I would with, say, something by Stock Aitken and Waterman. But nor would I ever choose to listen to them. They are well-crafted background music. They are music for people who don't like music.
Whereas the Beegees are the opposite. Both brilliant AND ridiculous. They are both loveable and hateable depending on taste, which is a far superior thing to be.
Back in 2023, I had a Telegraph subscription, and it was worth it for this article alone - a review of a book about the Bee Gees by Bob Stanley of St Ettiene fame - though how much of my enjoyment is down to the reviewer and how much to Bob Stanley, I don't know (I never got round to reading the book - perhaps I should):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/bee-gees-children-of-the-world-by-bob-stanley-review/?msockid=2e08108726996980126002ac27a16810
Highlights of the review included:
- Musings on the name "it sounded like someone was trying to say Beach Boys, but then lost heart"
- Reflections on the uneven hand nature had dealt the three brothers - one of whom looks like a 70s idea of a heartthrob, the other two looking like circus freakshows.
- The very strangeness of early Bee Gees lyrics e.g. Massachusetts:
"And the lights all went out in Massachusetts
And Massachusetts is one place I have seen" - starts off profound and quickly falls away to inane.
Their biographies were full of oddness. And, just go and look at some BeeGees videos on Youtube. Just look at them and try to keep a straight face.
A friend of mine once lived in a house in Chorlton owned by the BeeGees, or at least whichever of them were still alive. Decent landlords, by her account.
Anyway, the BeeGees. Definitely worthy of anyone's time but also definitely ridiculous.
That IS an interesting article about the Bee Gees. They really didn’t get the respect they deserve during their time - perhaps because they were so protean
I remember when they stormed out of a talk show hosted by Clive Anderson because he cruelly mocked them for ten straight minutes at the start. Lots of people thought they were being precious but I was cheering them on
Because the Bee Gees were fucking legends and Clive Anderson is a stupid lame lawyer-comic who is now almost entirely forgotten, and he wasn’t even funny
Show some respect, you tit
The best thing about it was its lack of coordination. Two of them stormed out, leaving the other one and Clive to sort of shrug apologetically at each other before the third one joined them.
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I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. But yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.0 -
That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet0 -
...0
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For a long while Paul Weller was my musical hero, but he fails the test quite spectacularly. The drop off post Stanley Road is a cliff edgeAugustusCarp2 said:
A very useful and worthwhile test - one which Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell and Paul Simon would pass with flying colours.isam said:
Brings to mind my rule about singer/songwriters; any material written over twenty years since their first release should have to go before some kind of panel that decides whether it would have got the green light if they were an artist with no back catalogue of success. Very few make the cut, and many reputations would be preservedLeon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks1 -
Next up the Shane Fenton iteration of Alvin StardustLeon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet1 -
These days you hear of schoolchildren remembering monarchs and the like by songs from Horrible Histories. And I doubt a day goes by without Foxy reminding himself what the kneebone is connected to.Scott_xP said:The interesting aspect of the Coldplay discussion has nothing to do with the band or the music; it's the memorial function of music.
We have talked about this before, but if you want to remember something, make it a song.
There is a whole subplot in Star Wars Skeleton Crew about a sea shanty that contains historical truths.
The child star of the movie Gifted remembered complex mathematical formulae by making up a song.
Several of the comments here are about what you feel when you hear the music.
For the CEO and his latest squeeze that response will be PTSD0 -
Not sure I agree with this.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The biggest change between the 40s to 90s as you reference was evolving technological abilities to record music, which isn't a problem anymore so you don't get step-changes as we saw with the introduction of electronic music etc in the past.
My daughters listen to modern stuff and stuff from the 90s, but when I was their age I did listen to stuff from the 60s and 70s which is the equivalent for me, as well as modern music from the 80s and 90s.
Similarly they sometimes watch very old shows from before they were born, such as Friends, but then I used to watch stuff that was old too, such as Lost in Space, I Dream of Jeannie, Get Smart or Bewitched which were on after school when I got home. In fact as a percentage of shows that were released before you were born, I think I watched a much higher proportion of old stuff than they do, since they spend more time with modern YouTube stuff rather than classic repeats.1 -
Yes, you're right, and @Foss alludes to this. But the interesting side effect of this is that fashions (in music, in clothes, in all sorts of cultural preferences) don't change as wildly as they did pre-internet. (Thinking aloud here) - by lessening the power of the tastemakers, tastes stay much more static.numbertwelve said:
Isn’t this partly because we have less common cultural reference points? If you look back at the time before the late noughties, a lot of things we remember are as a result of TV moments everyone watched, bands everyone followed, stories everyone read.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The internet is the culprit. I don’t need to listen or watch what the BBC want me to - I can listen to and watch whatever I like, from whatever era, instantly.0 -
BG definitely had the needle, you can see him gradually getting more annoyed with Anderson. The other two seemed to follow his lead. MG didn’t seem that botheredDaveyboy1961 said:
I've just watched the clip on YouTube and it looks like it was quite good-natured. I suspect the beegees walked out for effect.Cookie said:
Yes, me too. I remember that incident. I was on the BeeGees side too.kinabalu said:
Yes, I was with Barry on that. I'm not a fan of the smartarse roasting genre.Leon said:
I was only teasing Mister @Cookie. Tho he is totally wrong about Coldplaykinabalu said:
It's a good point about the Gibb genetic inequity though. The youngest and oldest brothers were heartthrob hansdome, the middle two not so much. Also, unusually, they died in reverse order. The youngest first, the oldest (Barry) still with us.Leon said:
This is the worst comment you have ever made. I’m now beginning to doubt the supposed merits of northern England, which you persuasively avow, upon occasionCookie said:
Well I'll bite on this, cos I'm a massive music snob.Leon said:
Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplayboulay said:…
“Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”TheScreamingEagles said:
Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.Sandpit said:LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.
Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status
We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
I'd argue the disdain for Coldplay is of a different stripe to that for the BeeGees.
Coldplay are *fine*. They do some well-crafted pop songs. It's just that I can't imagine how anyone could be so enthused by them as to want to shell out vast amounts to go and listen to them live (apart from a 15 year old autistic boy I know, who is very very keen). In most cases I wouldn't go out of my way to turn them off as I would with, say, something by Stock Aitken and Waterman. But nor would I ever choose to listen to them. They are well-crafted background music. They are music for people who don't like music.
Whereas the Beegees are the opposite. Both brilliant AND ridiculous. They are both loveable and hateable depending on taste, which is a far superior thing to be.
Back in 2023, I had a Telegraph subscription, and it was worth it for this article alone - a review of a book about the Bee Gees by Bob Stanley of St Ettiene fame - though how much of my enjoyment is down to the reviewer and how much to Bob Stanley, I don't know (I never got round to reading the book - perhaps I should):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/bee-gees-children-of-the-world-by-bob-stanley-review/?msockid=2e08108726996980126002ac27a16810
Highlights of the review included:
- Musings on the name "it sounded like someone was trying to say Beach Boys, but then lost heart"
- Reflections on the uneven hand nature had dealt the three brothers - one of whom looks like a 70s idea of a heartthrob, the other two looking like circus freakshows.
- The very strangeness of early Bee Gees lyrics e.g. Massachusetts:
"And the lights all went out in Massachusetts
And Massachusetts is one place I have seen" - starts off profound and quickly falls away to inane.
Their biographies were full of oddness. And, just go and look at some BeeGees videos on Youtube. Just look at them and try to keep a straight face.
A friend of mine once lived in a house in Chorlton owned by the BeeGees, or at least whichever of them were still alive. Decent landlords, by her account.
Anyway, the BeeGees. Definitely worthy of anyone's time but also definitely ridiculous.
That IS an interesting article about the Bee Gees. They really didn’t get the respect they deserve during their time - perhaps because they were so protean
I remember when they stormed out of a talk show hosted by Clive Anderson because he cruelly mocked them for ten straight minutes at the start. Lots of people thought they were being precious but I was cheering them on
Because the Bee Gees were fucking legends and Clive Anderson is a stupid lame lawyer-comic who is now almost entirely forgotten, and he wasn’t even funny
Show some respect, you tit
The best thing about it was its lack of coordination. Two of them stormed out, leaving the other one and Clive to sort of shrug apologetically at each other before the third one joined them.0 -
The kneecap? IRA innitDecrepiterJohnL said:
These days you hear of schoolchildren remembering monarchs and the like by songs from Horrible Histories. And I doubt a day goes by without Foxy reminding himself what the kneebone is connected to.Scott_xP said:The interesting aspect of the Coldplay discussion has nothing to do with the band or the music; it's the memorial function of music.
We have talked about this before, but if you want to remember something, make it a song.
There is a whole subplot in Star Wars Skeleton Crew about a sea shanty that contains historical truths.
The child star of the movie Gifted remembered complex mathematical formulae by making up a song.
Several of the comments here are about what you feel when you hear the music.
For the CEO and his latest squeeze that response will be PTSD3 -
“shows from before they were born, such as Friends”BartholomewRoberts said:
Not sure I agree with this.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The biggest change between the 40s to 90s as you reference was evolving technological abilities to record music, which isn't a problem anymore so you don't get step-changes as we saw with the introduction of electronic music etc in the past.
My daughters listen to modern stuff and stuff from the 90s, but when I was their age I did listen to stuff from the 60s and 70s which is the equivalent for me, as well as modern music from the 80s and 90s.
Similarly they sometimes watch very old shows from before they were born, such as Friends, but then I used to watch stuff that was old too, such as Lost in Space, I Dream of Jeannie, Get Smart or Bewitched which were on after school when I got home. In fact as a percentage of shows that were released before you were born, I think I watched a much higher proportion of old stuff than they do, since they spend more time with modern YouTube stuff rather than classic repeats.
Oh god, I feel old.3 -
"Phil - a bunch of internet contrarians who take great delight in not agreeing with either the popular consensus or with each other on anything - indeed, the last thing they agreed on was lamenting the loss of the Sycamore in the Sycamore Gap - have agreed that actually, you were pretty good."Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.0 -
I mean he did do that atrocity with Philip Bailey tbfCookie said:
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.1 -
Quite a spread result in Prestatyn Central.
Interesting defections from the Greens and Lab to Ref, LD, Ind, PLC who did not stand last time:
Prestatyn Central (Denbighshire) Council By-Election Result:
🌳 CON: 21.7% (-1.8)
🙋 Ind: 21.1% (New)
➡️ RFM: 18.4% (New)
🌼 PLC: 14.4% (New)
🌍 GRN: 13.6% (-35.4)
🌹 LAB: 9.0% (-14.5)
🔶 LDM: 1.8% (New)
No Ind (-3.9) as previous.
Conservative HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:iozffsic2xf3m263j3l7i5vo/post/3lu76emnhec2h1 -
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
3 -
Don't be like that, Topping. Bit of a sour note introduced into a nice warm chat.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. With the added benefit of providing Mengistu with the funds to complete his forced resettlement policies.kinabalu said:Rewatching Live Aid, you realize how special Collins was in his pomp.
Huzzah!0 -
No longer connected to, innit?wooliedyed said:
The kneecap? IRA innitDecrepiterJohnL said:
These days you hear of schoolchildren remembering monarchs and the like by songs from Horrible Histories. And I doubt a day goes by without Foxy reminding himself what the kneebone is connected to.Scott_xP said:The interesting aspect of the Coldplay discussion has nothing to do with the band or the music; it's the memorial function of music.
We have talked about this before, but if you want to remember something, make it a song.
There is a whole subplot in Star Wars Skeleton Crew about a sea shanty that contains historical truths.
The child star of the movie Gifted remembered complex mathematical formulae by making up a song.
Several of the comments here are about what you feel when you hear the music.
For the CEO and his latest squeeze that response will be PTSD2 -
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.1 -
It’s quite difficult to say how I feel about it all. In many ways, it’s very freeing - the democratisation of culture, the ability to digest and shape your perspectives in the way you want.Cookie said:
Yes, you're right, and @Foss alludes to this. But the interesting side effect of this is that fashions (in music, in clothes, in all sorts of cultural preferences) don't change as wildly as they did pre-internet. (Thinking aloud here) - by lessening the power of the tastemakers, tastes stay much more static.numbertwelve said:
Isn’t this partly because we have less common cultural reference points? If you look back at the time before the late noughties, a lot of things we remember are as a result of TV moments everyone watched, bands everyone followed, stories everyone read.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The internet is the culprit. I don’t need to listen or watch what the BBC want me to - I can listen to and watch whatever I like, from whatever era, instantly.
On the other hand, it does create significant challenges for the Demos, more division, less unity, less commonality, fewer ties that bind. Some of which I think we are seeing playing out now.
The cultural establishment is starting to wither. If things continue as they are, the political establishment cannot be far behind it.1 -
Apparently the green who won the multi nember ward in 22 had a very large personal vote - the second green finished behind the Tories (hence them 'defending' here)MattW said:Quite a spread result in Prestatyn Central.
Interesting defections from the Greens and Lab to Ref, LD, Ind, PLC who did not stand last time:
Prestatyn Central (Denbighshire) Council By-Election Result:
🌳 CON: 21.7% (-1.8)
🙋 Ind: 21.1% (New)
➡️ RFM: 18.4% (New)
🌼 PLC: 14.4% (New)
🌍 GRN: 13.6% (-35.4)
🌹 LAB: 9.0% (-14.5)
🔶 LDM: 1.8% (New)
No Ind (-3.9) as previous.
Conservative HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:iozffsic2xf3m263j3l7i5vo/post/3lu76emnhec2h0 -
Five candidates each getting more than 10% of the vote shows an electoral system that is broken. In the last Council elections in May there were two seats (in Cornwall and Buckinghamshire) where SIX candidates each got more than 10%.MattW said:Quite a spread result in Prestatyn Central.
Interesting defections from the Greens and Lab to Ref, LD, Ind, PLC who did not stand last time:
Prestatyn Central (Denbighshire) Council By-Election Result:
🌳 CON: 21.7% (-1.8)
🙋 Ind: 21.1% (New)
➡️ RFM: 18.4% (New)
🌼 PLC: 14.4% (New)
🌍 GRN: 13.6% (-35.4)
🌹 LAB: 9.0% (-14.5)
🔶 LDM: 1.8% (New)
No Ind (-3.9) as previous.
Conservative HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:iozffsic2xf3m263j3l7i5vo/post/3lu76emnhec2h2 -
Soz. But the sheer delusion over Live Aid for me epitomises in particular the British exceptionalist view of the world and history whereby we are on the right side and we won't brook any dissenting voices.kinabalu said:
Don't be like that, Topping. Bit of a sour note introduced into a nice warm chat.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. With the added benefit of providing Mengistu with the funds to complete his forced resettlement policies.kinabalu said:Rewatching Live Aid, you realize how special Collins was in his pomp.
Huzzah!0 -
No there isn’t. And one very good reason is that there is no longer an agreed ground to breakTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
Everything fragments. There is some great music still being made but it is not quite as great as the best stuff of old and also it sounds, necessarily, derivative - as over 70 years of ceaseless experimentation has explored every musical avenue and - not least - every chord sequence
There is no shame in this. Artforms rise peak and fall. Chinese porcelain. Welsh love spoons. The Renaissance. Opera. Western popular music. Moche sex pottery
We should be more excited about what is coming. Entire new forms of art are being birthed - even as pop music recedes0 -
Music is like all art. Telling people that you mustn’t like Mozart or whatever because it’s “crap” or “simple” won’t change their mind. And makes you sound stupid.Cookie said:
"Phil - a bunch of internet contrarians who take great delight in not agreeing with either the popular consensus or with each other on anything - indeed, the last thing they agreed on was lamenting the loss of the Sycamore in the Sycamore Gap - have agreed that actually, you were pretty good."Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.0 -
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.1 -
Drill, for example, is the punk of today. Upsetting the "Top of the Pops" type music.Leon said:
No there isn’t. And one very good reason is that there is no longer an agreed ground to breakTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
Everything fragments. There is some great music still being made but it is not quite as great as the best stuff of old and also it sounds, necessarily, derivative - as over 70 years of ceaseless experimentation has explored every musical avenue and - not least - every chord sequence
There is no shame in this. Artforms rise peak and fall. Chinese porcelain. Welsh love spoons. The Renaissance. Opera. Western popular music. Moche sex pottery
We should be more excited about what is coming. Entire new forms of art are being birthed - even as pop music recedes
But there is plenty more. From Nick Cave to Ethel Cain.0 -
ChatGPT was down for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and Reddit was flooded with posts from people saying they had forgotten how to write emails, etc, without its help, some with a hint of seriousness.Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now1 -
Personally I thought the gorilla was far better, and a more complex character than Phil Collins.3
-
Luke Tryl
@luketryl.bsky.social
Obviously it’s only a small handful of by-elections but the fact Reform are failing to hold by elections in seats they won just weeks earlier, points to a potential weakness in maintaining momentum. With up to 4 years to go till the GE that risks being a problem for them.
https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lu7vpuo3ks261 -
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.0 -
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.0 -
Are you going for the bulls? Or the Albigensians.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.0 -
It’s definitely a thing and it is definitely happening. Indeed I’m writing about it - again - for the gazetteFeersumEnjineeya said:
ChatGPT was down for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and Reddit was flooded with posts from people saying they had forgotten how to write emails, etc, without its help, some with a hint of seriousness.Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
Which reminds me. I have lunch with the Gazette editors. I must crack on0 -
When i did my coastal walk, Phil Collins was the only celebrity who sponsored me for the charity - and wrote me a very nice letter.Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
For that alone, he's a good 'un in my books.8 -
BartholomewRoberts said:
Not sure I agree with this.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The biggest change between the 40s to 90s as you reference was evolving technological abilities to record music, which isn't a problem anymore so you don't get step-changes as we saw with the introduction of electronic music etc in the past.
My daughters listen to modern stuff and stuff from the 90s, but when I was their age I did listen to stuff from the 60s and 70s which is the equivalent for me, as well as modern music from the 80s and 90s.
Similarly they sometimes watch very old shows from before they were born, such as Friends, but then I used to watch stuff that was old too, such as Lost in Space, I Dream of Jeannie, Get Smart or Bewitched which were on after school when I got home. In fact as a percentage of shows that were released before you were born, I think I watched a much higher proportion of old stuff than they do, since they spend more time with modern YouTube stuff rather than classic repeats.
I think you're the same age as me - i.e. born in the mid 70s? The equivalent for us would be listening to 40s and 50s music rather than 60s and 70s (listening to 60s and 70s music was not unusual, I agree, though not really on my radar aside from late 70s punk and post punk). But no-one listened to anything from the 50s or before.
But your second paragraph is astute - I hadn't considered that: lots of the change in musical style from 40s to 90s was down to evolving possibilities in the way of creating and recording music. As you say, that's basically done now.
0 -
You may have to translate some of this post for some of us!!!Scott_xP said:The greatest gig I ever saw was Genesis on the Invisible Touch tour
ShowCo Prism PA, perhaps the best sounding pre-line array rig ever
The first tour to use Varilites exclusively
Magic
Strangely the best atmosphere at a gig was Big Country at The Playhouse. I don't remember the PA but the lighting rig was a handful of Parcans0 -
Not convinced.rottenborough said:
Luke Tryl
@luketryl.bsky.social
Obviously it’s only a small handful of by-elections but the fact Reform are failing to hold by elections in seats they won just weeks earlier, points to a potential weakness in maintaining momentum. With up to 4 years to go till the GE that risks being a problem for them.
https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lu7vpuo3ks26
The fact that there is a by election in a seat they won “weeks earlier” speaks for itself.
It’s not a weakness of failing to “maintain momentum” it’s a risk of appearing entirely unserious by causing by elections so soon. If you were a voter in that seat, what would you think? That is their problem.0 -
For me it was just slightly stripped back rock music. It was tge culture around it that was groundbreaking. Anyways Im off out for the day, have fun allTOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.0 -
I saw Genesis in a concert in Leeds. You can't tell me about sophistication.
1 -
True. But not much of the music has lasted and been accommodated in The Canon of popular Music. The Clash, perhaps, and Talking Heads, but they weren't really Punk per se. No one seriously listens to the Sex pistols nowadays - it's just a novelty act from the Olden Days.TOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.0 -
I stayed in that prison! It’s fun. But a bit like a prison. And I should knowkjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
The views around are spectacular
Beziers itself is strange. Beautiful in many ways but a definite undercurrent of decay and resentment. Relatedly it is one of the homelands of Le Pen in the south
For clarity my daughter flew into Montpelier but then we went to stay in Beziers and Aix and Arles then up into Aveyron and those Volvic volcanoes
Vichy is also weird0 -
Things stabilising a bit. Reform still scoring spectacular wins from standing starts but have lost all 3 seats they were defending from the May elections, including one in Staffs last night, which was an easy Tory gain with the Greens coming in second.MattW said:Quite a spread result in Prestatyn Central.
Interesting defections from the Greens and Lab to Ref, LD, Ind, PLC who did not stand last time:
Prestatyn Central (Denbighshire) Council By-Election Result:
🌳 CON: 21.7% (-1.8)
🙋 Ind: 21.1% (New)
➡️ RFM: 18.4% (New)
🌼 PLC: 14.4% (New)
🌍 GRN: 13.6% (-35.4)
🌹 LAB: 9.0% (-14.5)
🔶 LDM: 1.8% (New)
No Ind (-3.9) as previous.
Conservative HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:iozffsic2xf3m263j3l7i5vo/post/3lu76emnhec2h0 -
I had to look that up. Sorry showing my ignorance.TOPPING said:
Are you going for the bulls? Or the Albigensians.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
No just passing through in September on the way to Sete. Just one night there, although we have two spare days at the end before returning to Toulouse so if any good we may return.0 -
More pointing to the fact voters don’t like being asked twice.rottenborough said:
Luke Tryl
@luketryl.bsky.social
Obviously it’s only a small handful of by-elections but the fact Reform are failing to hold by elections in seats they won just weeks earlier, points to a potential weakness in maintaining momentum. With up to 4 years to go till the GE that risks being a problem for them.
https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lu7vpuo3ks261 -
Welcome to the Pleasuredome by Frankie Goes to Hollywood is widely regarded as having some of the best production ever in popular music.TOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
According to Trevor Horn, it only has one chord.0 -
It's a one from two byelection so I don't think we can call that. Last time in 2022 (may not align):AugustusCarp2 said:
Five candidates each getting more than 10% of the vote shows an electoral system that is broken. In the last Council elections in May there were two seats (in Cornwall and Buckinghamshire) where SIX candidates each got more than 10%.MattW said:Quite a spread result in Prestatyn Central.
Interesting defections from the Greens and Lab to Ref, LD, Ind, PLC who did not stand last time:
Prestatyn Central (Denbighshire) Council By-Election Result:
🌳 CON: 21.7% (-1.8)
🙋 Ind: 21.1% (New)
➡️ RFM: 18.4% (New)
🌼 PLC: 14.4% (New)
🌍 GRN: 13.6% (-35.4)
🌹 LAB: 9.0% (-14.5)
🔶 LDM: 1.8% (New)
No Ind (-3.9) as previous.
Conservative HOLD.
Changes w/ 2022.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:iozffsic2xf3m263j3l7i5vo/post/3lu76emnhec2h
Green Jon Harland 806
Conservative Hugh Irving 387
Labour Bob Murray 386
Conservative Elizabeth Tina Jones 328
Green Robert Spalding 289
Independent Rory Fraser 64
Registered electors 2,871
(We are PB, and we do percentages in our heads.)1 -
...
It's nearly a generation since the MySpace/broadband/itunes revolution. .Cookie said:BartholomewRoberts said:
Not sure I agree with this.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The biggest change between the 40s to 90s as you reference was evolving technological abilities to record music, which isn't a problem anymore so you don't get step-changes as we saw with the introduction of electronic music etc in the past.
My daughters listen to modern stuff and stuff from the 90s, but when I was their age I did listen to stuff from the 60s and 70s which is the equivalent for me, as well as modern music from the 80s and 90s.
Similarly they sometimes watch very old shows from before they were born, such as Friends, but then I used to watch stuff that was old too, such as Lost in Space, I Dream of Jeannie, Get Smart or Bewitched which were on after school when I got home. In fact as a percentage of shows that were released before you were born, I think I watched a much higher proportion of old stuff than they do, since they spend more time with modern YouTube stuff rather than classic repeats.
I think you're the same age as me - i.e. born in the mid 70s? The equivalent for us would be listening to 40s and 50s music rather than 60s and 70s (listening to 60s and 70s music was not unusual, I agree, though not really on my radar aside from late 70s punk and post punk). But no-one listened to anything from the 50s or before.
But your second paragraph is astute - I hadn't considered that: lots of the change in musical style from 40s to 90s was down to evolving possibilities in the way of creating and recording music. As you say, that's basically done now.0 -
It sounded great and looked amazingrottenborough said:
You may have to translate some of this post for some of us!!!Scott_xP said:The greatest gig I ever saw was Genesis on the Invisible Touch tour
ShowCo Prism PA, perhaps the best sounding pre-line array rig ever
The first tour to use Varilites exclusively
Magic
Strangely the best atmosphere at a gig was Big Country at The Playhouse. I don't remember the PA but the lighting rig was a handful of Parcans 1 -
Well, yes, perhaps, but if there is you have to seek it out, and 99% of people are unaware of it in a way that was not true of say, the Beatles, the Sex Pistols, the Human League, the Smiths...TOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
I was going to say "I quite like contemporary band x but most people are unaware of it", but looking through candidates for 'x' none of them are in any way ground breaking. But I'm sure there are examples.0 -
Not trueAugustusCarp2 said:
True. But not much of the music has lasted and been accommodated in The Canon of popular Music. The Clash, perhaps, and Talking Heads, but they weren't really Punk per se. No one seriously listens to the Sex pistols nowadays - it's just a novelty act from the Olden Days.TOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
If I want a real injection of nihilistic energy I will listen
to Pretty Vacant - a cracking song - or Holidays in the Sun. Or a couple of others
I’ve also heard these songs used in movie scores for exactly this reason. And to great effect. They immediately establish a mood of exciting and surly rebellion
So you’re wrong. Sorry1 -
Maybe, maybe not. But they transformed the whole musical paradigm (!) and there is plenty of "good music" from that era, not only the Clash but many bands also. I mean not that it is hugely indicative, but as I have noted many times on here, think of any 70s/80s punk band, type in "That Band tour" into google and sure as eggs is eggs they will be playing the Aylesbury Civic Theatre this Saturday. Or somesuch.AugustusCarp2 said:
True. But not much of the music has lasted and been accommodated in The Canon of popular Music. The Clash, perhaps, and Talking Heads, but they weren't really Punk per se. No one seriously listens to the Sex pistols nowadays - it's just a novelty act from the Olden Days.TOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.1 -
Yes I couldn't resist booking it. I am also staying in a convent on my trip. I like to do something different. Last year was the Loire and I stayed in a number of chateaux on the trip that individuals just open up for the odd traveller. You usually get a great meal and lovely conversation and learn so much.Leon said:
I stayed in that prison! It’s fun. But a bit like a prison. And I should knowkjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
The views around are spectacular
Beziers itself is strange. Beautiful in many ways but a definite undercurrent of decay and resentment. Relatedly it is one of the homelands of Le Pen in the south
For clarity my daughter flew into Montpelier but then we went to stay in Beziers and Aix and Arles then up into Aveyron and those Volvic volcanoes
Vichy is also weird1 -
Did he write, "You'll Be in My Heart, Son of Man. If you feel In Too Deep, think of each day as Another Day in Paradise, if you lack facilities, note that there is something In the Air Tonight, if you find it too hot then I Wish It Would Rain Down and, when you're nearly there, if it's hard, remember it's just One More Night. Strangers Like Me will be thinking of you Everyday, in our Separate Lives as you make Home by the Sea"?JosiasJessop said:
When i did my coastal walk, Phil Collins was the only celebrity who sponsored me for the charity - and wrote me a very nice letter.Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
For that alone, he's a good 'un in my books.3 -
I'd argue the Sex Pistols were a bit of a difference to everything that had been in the chart at the time.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
But I concede - even as an enthusiast for punk - 95% of punk wasn't very good. I'd say if someone who had never heard punk wanted to know about it you could play them "Never Mind the Bollocks" and leave it at that.
What it did bring, however, was something of a democtratisation of music. It became possible to 'do' pop music without having a great deal in the way of resources, or indeed, musicianship.0 -
I think Ethel Cain is one of them, but everyone has names they can think of. The point is that there are genres, and sub-genres, and each of these does differ significantly from the mainstream. Are they niche? Yes for sure - do they often hark back to an older age? For sure also, but there is plenty going on right now.Cookie said:
Well, yes, perhaps, but if there is you have to seek it out, and 99% of people are unaware of it in a way that was not true of say, the Beatles, the Sex Pistols, the Human League, the Smiths...TOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
I was going to say "I quite like contemporary band x but most people are unaware of it", but looking through candidates for 'x' none of them are in any way ground breaking. But I'm sure there are examples.0 -
I mean it doesn't get more PB than old white blokes talking about the music of their youth...3
-
Yes, the democratising effect was the significant influence. If you wanted to form a band, you needed three chords, not a dry ice machine. See below on the disdain for Phil Collins' Genesis!Cookie said:
I'd argue the Sex Pistols were a bit of a difference to everything that had been in the chart at the time.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
But I concede - even as an enthusiast for punk - 95% of punk wasn't very good. I'd say if someone who had never heard punk wanted to know about it you could play them "Never Mind the Bollocks" and leave it at that.
What it did bring, however, was something of a democtratisation of music. It became possible to 'do' pop music without having a great deal in the way of resources, or indeed, musicianship.1 -
If it's the Canal du Midi, aren't there any boats?kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
2 -
They were obviously Lovefool - next time they should stay inside and wear cardigansBartholomewRoberts said:
Their anger and embarrassment at being shown on big electronic screens could make them want to Rage Against The Machine.ydoethur said:
It could have been the Sex Pistols, perhaps?Scott_xP said:@svershbow
Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?
And the winner is...Coldplay0 -
We've read all about the Gazette lunches:-Leon said:
It’s definitely a thing and it is definitely happening. Indeed I’m writing about it - again - for the gazetteFeersumEnjineeya said:
ChatGPT was down for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and Reddit was flooded with posts from people saying they had forgotten how to write emails, etc, without its help, some with a hint of seriousness.Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
Which reminds me. I have lunch with the Gazette editors. I must crack on
£250k salaries and two kilos of caviar: Inside London’s new media arms race
https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/250k-salaries-and-two-kilos-of-caviar-inside-londons-new-media-arms-race/0 -
It takes a special skill to cycle down a canal. A bit like crossing the road in Venice.MattW said:
If it's the Canal du Midi, aren't there any boats?kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.0 -
Reddit is flooded with posts from people who can barely get out of bed without a map. My left shoe feels a bit loose. Should I tie my laces?FeersumEnjineeya said:
ChatGPT was down for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and Reddit was flooded with posts from people saying they had forgotten how to write emails, etc, without its help, some with a hint of seriousness.Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now4 -
Good god @TOPPING I really was showing my ignorance wasn't I. Apparently 1 million people turn up for the 5 day bull fighting event. Good job I didn't try and book for then.kjh said:
I had to look that up. Sorry showing my ignorance.TOPPING said:
Are you going for the bulls? Or the Albigensians.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
No just passing through in September on the way to Sete. Just one night there, although we have two spare days at the end before returning to Toulouse so if any good we may return.0 -
Slightly convoluted story but these days every Wimbledon champion races up the stands through the crowd to hug their team in those boxes.
When Pat Cash first did it he made his way through the crowds with more difficulty and ended up at the box to hug his trainer. Sitting next to the box in the crowd was a well known (and married) City fund manager who had taken his secretary to the tennis as a getaway. And they would have got away with it, had Cash not brought the world's cameras to precisely their seats.
I believe divorce ensued.2 -
It is quite a thing.kjh said:
Good god @TOPPING I really was showing my ignorance wasn't I. Apparently 1 million people turn up for the 5 day bull fighting event. Good job I didn't try and book for then.kjh said:
I had to look that up. Sorry showing my ignorance.TOPPING said:
Are you going for the bulls? Or the Albigensians.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
No just passing through in September on the way to Sete. Just one night there, although we have two spare days at the end before returning to Toulouse so if any good we may return.1 -
"Let's have a 'secret' tryst"TOPPING said:Slightly convoluted story but these days every Wimbledon champion races up the stands through the crowd to hug their team in those boxes.
When Pat Cash first did it he made his way through the crowds with more difficulty and ended up at the box to hug his trainer. Sitting next to the box in the crowd was a well known (and married) City fund manager who had taken his secretary to the tennis as a getaway. And they would have got away with it, had Cash not brought the world's cameras to precisely their seats.
I believe divorce ensued.
"OK, where?"
"One of the World's largest televised events..."1 -
A quick look at the stats show that over the last 15 years, there is one Sex Pistols song in my top 300 most-listened-to and two in the top 500. I have listened to nine different Sex Pistols songs in 2025.Leon said:
Not trueAugustusCarp2 said:
True. But not much of the music has lasted and been accommodated in The Canon of popular Music. The Clash, perhaps, and Talking Heads, but they weren't really Punk per se. No one seriously listens to the Sex pistols nowadays - it's just a novelty act from the Olden Days.TOPPING said:
Disagree. The three chord wonders showed that music didn't have to be, er, the Bee Gees.wooliedyed said:
Punk culture was groundbreaking, the music wasn'tTOPPING said:
There is plenty of music now which is as groundbreaking as, for example, punk was in the 70s.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
If I want a real injection of nihilistic energy I will listen
to Pretty Vacant - a cracking song - or Holidays in the Sun. Or a couple of others
I’ve also heard these songs used in movie scores for exactly this reason. And to great effect. They immediately establish a mood of exciting and surly rebellion
So you’re wrong. Sorry1 -
The Beautiful South are another band who had massive commercial success, yet never seemed to be quite as trendy or hip as other bands. I saw a fair bit of disdain for them at the height of their success in the early nineties.
I love both "Blue is the Colour" and "Quench". Great song after great song.0 -
Isn't that pretty well what Leon has been doing for the last half hour or so, just the other way round ?Malmesbury said:
Music is like all art. Telling people that you mustn’t like Mozart or whatever because it’s “crap” or “simple” won’t change their mind. And makes you sound stupid.Cookie said:
"Phil - a bunch of internet contrarians who take great delight in not agreeing with either the popular consensus or with each other on anything - indeed, the last thing they agreed on was lamenting the loss of the Sycamore in the Sycamore Gap - have agreed that actually, you were pretty good."Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.
I don't particularly care for either Collins or Coldplay, both of whom I find quite irritating after a very short while, but I'm more than happy to accept others have different tastes.0 -
Chelsea fan eh?JosiasJessop said:The Beautiful South are another band who had massive commercial success, yet never seemed to be quite as trendy or hip as other bands. I saw a fair bit of disdain for them at the height of their success in the early nineties.
I love both "Blue is the Colour" and "Quench". Great song after great song.0 -
Twin town of Stockport, of course. Basically the same, only with people talking French.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.3 -
My daughter lives in Stockport. She has never mentioned them talking French there.Cookie said:
Twin town of Stockport, of course. Basically the same, only with people talking French.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.4 -
Because the EU bureaucracy had different interests to the political leadership. It needed politicians to force a sensible strategy.algarkirk said:A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.
Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.
Is it too late now to sort it?
BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.
And Cameron was lazy, while Merkel was crap.
0 -
DfE has finally noticed that some unis may go bust and exit the HE market.
0 -
Born in the 80s, not the 70s.Cookie said:BartholomewRoberts said:
Not sure I agree with this.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The biggest change between the 40s to 90s as you reference was evolving technological abilities to record music, which isn't a problem anymore so you don't get step-changes as we saw with the introduction of electronic music etc in the past.
My daughters listen to modern stuff and stuff from the 90s, but when I was their age I did listen to stuff from the 60s and 70s which is the equivalent for me, as well as modern music from the 80s and 90s.
Similarly they sometimes watch very old shows from before they were born, such as Friends, but then I used to watch stuff that was old too, such as Lost in Space, I Dream of Jeannie, Get Smart or Bewitched which were on after school when I got home. In fact as a percentage of shows that were released before you were born, I think I watched a much higher proportion of old stuff than they do, since they spend more time with modern YouTube stuff rather than classic repeats.
I think you're the same age as me - i.e. born in the mid 70s? The equivalent for us would be listening to 40s and 50s music rather than 60s and 70s (listening to 60s and 70s music was not unusual, I agree, though not really on my radar aside from late 70s punk and post punk). But no-one listened to anything from the 50s or before.
But your second paragraph is astute - I hadn't considered that: lots of the change in musical style from 40s to 90s was down to evolving possibilities in the way of creating and recording music. As you say, that's basically done now.
So my daughters, born in the 10s, listening to music from the 90s is no different to me listening to music from the 60s, which I absolutely did.0 -
I found Beziers had a slightly sinister atmosphere when I visited decades ago. There was a massacre there in the 13th century and 7,000 people were killed in the local church.Leon said:
I stayed in that prison! It’s fun. But a bit like a prison. And I should knowkjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
The views around are spectacular
Beziers itself is strange. Beautiful in many ways but a definite undercurrent of decay and resentment. Relatedly it is one of the homelands of Le Pen in the south
For clarity my daughter flew into Montpelier but then we went to stay in Beziers and Aix and Arles then up into Aveyron and those Volvic volcanoes
Vichy is also weird
Another place which I felt had an odd atmosphere was Volterra in Italy. Apparently some of the Twilight series are set there and you get Twilight fans turning up. But I visited decades before that and I found it rather weird.0 -
I did lol when those mad lads chopped that tree down. Peak bantz. Don't really give a fuck about Phil Collins.Cookie said:
"Phil - a bunch of internet contrarians who take great delight in not agreeing with either the popular consensus or with each other on anything - indeed, the last thing they agreed on was lamenting the loss of the Sycamore in the Sycamore Gap - have agreed that actually, you were pretty good."Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.1 -
So what?rottenborough said:DfE has finally noticed that some unis may go bust and exit the HE market.
Let them go bust - and if they do their assets will still be there and potentially their assets can be taken by a refreshed institution and they could potential reopen as a new university with different management and structures. Who cares?
Businesses fail, we need to get over the hangup that failed entities might fail.0 -
Ripping Yarns: in a northern town, Eric Olthwaite was so dull his coal miner father took to speaking French so he could avoid speaking to him...Cookie said:
Twin town of Stockport, of course. Basically the same, only with people talking French.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
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Yes, but only just!Scott_xP said:
Do they have 9 different songs?Cookie said:I have listened to nine different Sex Pistols songs in 2025.
The album "Never Mind the Bollocks" was splendid and worth a place in anyone's record collection and one of the handful of records in popular music in which every song on the album is worth its place.
Aside from that, you don't really need to bother. Although the soundtrack to "Great Rock n Roll Swindle" contains some interesting oddities.
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Horrific that there could be a press baron more malign than MurdochDecrepiterJohnL said:
We've read all about the Gazette lunches:-Leon said:
It’s definitely a thing and it is definitely happening. Indeed I’m writing about it - again - for the gazetteFeersumEnjineeya said:
ChatGPT was down for a few hours a couple of weeks ago, and Reddit was flooded with posts from people saying they had forgotten how to write emails, etc, without its help, some with a hint of seriousness.Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
Which reminds me. I have lunch with the Gazette editors. I must crack on
£250k salaries and two kilos of caviar: Inside London’s new media arms race
https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/250k-salaries-and-two-kilos-of-caviar-inside-londons-new-media-arms-race/0 -
They could well all likely be better run.... but they are all constrained as to how much they can charge for a course.BartholomewRoberts said:
So what?rottenborough said:DfE has finally noticed that some unis may go bust and exit the HE market.
Let them go bust - and if they do their assets will still be there and potentially their assets can be taken by a refreshed institution and they could potential reopen as a new university with different management and structures. Who cares?
Businesses fail, we need to get over the hangup that failed entities might fail.0 -
Paul Dirac's (famous physics boffin from a hundred years ago) father Charles forced his children to speak to him only in French so that they might learn the language. When Dirac found that he could not express what he wanted to say in French, he chose to remain silent.MarqueeMark said:
Ripping Yarns: in a northern town, Eric Olthwaite was so dull his coal miner father took to speaking French so he could avoid speaking to him...Cookie said:
Twin town of Stockport, of course. Basically the same, only with people talking French.kjh said:
Ooh I'm going to Beziers this year. I will be in prison there!!!Leon said:
Things have moved on. Nowadays kids ask “how did you know anything or do anything without ChatGPT”. I’m serious. I do it myself constantlyFeersumEnjineeya said:
I'm not sure I agree with that. The whole shift to online over the past 30 years has completely revolutionised the way people go about their lives. Imagine how lost most of us would be if we were teleported back 30 years. No Amazon, no PB, no Twitter/X, etc. Our kids (early 20s) sometimes ask how on earth we got things done without the internet (yes, I know the internet existsed then, but it had yet to achieve its potential). They really can't imagine life pre-internet. And yes, it probably has had a major negative effect on music.Cookie said:
Culture came to a halt in the mid 90s. Popular music now doesn't really sound very different to how it did 30 years ago. Bands don't really get off the stage any more. We still also have Pulp and Elbow. Indeed, the world in general doesn't really look that different. I look out the window at passers by and they are dressed like they might have been in 1995. Whereas if I looked out the window in 1995, the world would have looked very different to how it would have in 1965; and even more so from 1965 to 1935. And my daughters listen to stuff from the 2020s, but also stuff from the 1990s and 1980s. The equivalent for me at their age in the late 80s would be listening to things from the 40s and 50s. Which I definitely didn't do.Leon said:A melancholy subtext to this music chat is “what will PBers be nostalgically talking about, musically, in 2047”?
There won’t be any 2020s music for them to nostalge about. The biggest touring band of the moment is Oasis
I guess they could go on and on and on about Taylor Swift until @HYUFD-botX178 threatens to invade the website with royally-approved cybertanks
I find this very odd. And yes, counter-examples can be found, and there is tech, and (slightly) different standards of behaviour and the country has far more people and politics is different. But the look and feel of the world we live in is puzzlingly similar to that of 30 years ago in a way which hasn't happened for generations.
The only exception to this, perhaps in the world, is my older daughter. She abhors chatbots and devours books. She read all of Kafka’s The Trial on one Ryanair flight to meet me in Beziers last year. She reads EVERYTHING
The other day she said to me “Dad I can’t wait to go back to uni so I can carry on learning. All I want to do is learn things”
I love her to bits. I also love her wryly rebellious sister equally but that’s likely coz shes more like me
Ok. I’m turning off sentimental dad mode, now
I didn't even know it had an airport. Cycling the Canal du Midi. Everything is by train and bike. Also cycling another canal which required a special licence. Always look forward to my annual cycle trips.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Dirac0 -
I'm tempted to list out all the other places I'm visiting on my cycle trip. The feedback has been so good I won't have to go.0
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I thought they were a pair of c****, however the thought that they could have beaten their girlfriends to a pulp and received a lighter sentence does show what a strange world we live within.Dura_Ace said:
I did lol when those mad lads chopped that tree down. Peak bantz. Don't really give a fuck about Phil Collins.Cookie said:
"Phil - a bunch of internet contrarians who take great delight in not agreeing with either the popular consensus or with each other on anything - indeed, the last thing they agreed on was lamenting the loss of the Sycamore in the Sycamore Gap - have agreed that actually, you were pretty good."Leon said:That’s it. Phil Collins has been Officially Rehabilitated by the Musical Sages of PoliticalBetting
We should probably let him know, he’ll be chuffed. If anyone is going to Switzerland this summer they should pop by his chalet
I didn't expect this to be the subject that united pb.com.
I expect Dura Ace or malcolm will be along in a minute to furiously rebut.1
