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We need to talk about electoral reform as it has betting implications – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,616
edited 8:44AM in General
We need to talk about electoral reform as it has betting implications – politicalbetting.com

The Supplementary Vote is coming back for all elections for Mayor in the English devolution bill – at last the Starmer government has a sensible constitutional reform in play https://t.co/0p7ywTMFgK

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    An AV thread.

    Are we being punished for Leon’s crimes?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    On topic, this is again about favouring Labour as you obliquely note. They are assuming that in a forced choice of the big two in any given area they will be most people’s second choice.

    I’m not sure they’re right. How many people will understand the system? Or even use it? (Do we have statistics from when it was used before as to the numbers who used one vote only?)

    My instinct, which is of course usually only slightly more accurate than Leon’s, is that the mayoral elections are seen as a free hit against the whole party system and the value is probably in backing Greens and Independents, particularly if Reform have bad press over their local council performances.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, this is again about favouring Labour as you obliquely note. They are assuming that in a forced choice of the big two in any given area they will be most people’s second choice.

    I’m not sure they’re right. How many people will understand the system? Or even use it? (Do we have statistics from when it was used before as to the numbers who used one vote only?)

    My instinct, which is of course usually only slightly more accurate than Leon’s, is that the mayoral elections are seen as a free hit against the whole party system and the value is probably in backing Greens and Independents, particularly if Reform have bad press over their local council performances.

    Polanski is the obvious candidate, already a member of the London Assembly, and potentially the next Green leader.

    Indeed, as a former LibDem himself, one wonders whether there is scope for a Green-LibDem deal to take on the major parties in the capital?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, this is again about favouring Labour as you obliquely note. They are assuming that in a forced choice of the big two in any given area they will be most people’s second choice.

    I’m not sure they’re right. How many people will understand the system? Or even use it? (Do we have statistics from when it was used before as to the numbers who used one vote only?)

    My instinct, which is of course usually only slightly more accurate than Leon’s, is that the mayoral elections are seen as a free hit against the whole party system and the value is probably in backing Greens and Independents, particularly if Reform have bad press over their local council performances.

    For example in 2012

    Of the 375,377 votes for the non top 2 parties just 185,235 expressed a second preference.

    PS I note obliquely is a synonym for subtle.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    It could have been the Sex Pistols, perhaps?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    edited July 18
    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    This is why I buy VIP tickets, nobody takes camera shots of us.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?

    And the winner is...Coldplay

    https://x.com/tedgioia/status/1946017729833484668
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,567
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    It could have been the Sex Pistols, perhaps?
    Their anger and embarrassment at being shown on big electronic screens could make them want to Rage Against The Machine.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,195
    Jenrick into 20/1 from 33s in the header but still not quoted by Hills. TSE's bookie won't take my tenner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    "It is very disappointing that Sir Keir Starmer didn’t go for a more equitable voting system such as the single transferable vote."

    Agreed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,080
    Stables and doors come to mind but it is not a good thing that parties of all stripes are wanting to constantly muck about with the electoral systems to their obvious and patent advantage. Democracy is under enough strain without the players changing their rules to their advantage.

    There was a time when a quasi independent body like a Royal Commission would have looked at this. Now, whatever helps us is good. I emphasise that this is not a party political point. The Conservatives' changes were equally blatant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    It could have been the Sex Pistols, perhaps?
    Their anger and embarrassment at being shown on big electronic screens could make them want to Rage Against The Machine.
    It is of course a good job it was not Sir Fred and She Who Must Not Be Named, or Coldplay might have been imprisoned for contempt.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,724
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Britain’s largest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, has delayed the planned launches of its new electric Range Rover and electric Jaguar models to give it time for more testing and for demand to pick up, the Guardian can reveal.

    JLR has written to customers waiting for the Range Rover Electric to inform them that deliveries of the new version of the model will not start until next year, after initially aiming for late 2025.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/18/jaguar-land-rover-delays-launch-range-rover-electric

    It is a bit sad to see the company commit suicide.
    Suicide implies there was another, superior strategy they could have adopted. If there is, I'd love to see it.

    I could see the electric RR being a success. If you think about the typical usage and the buying demographic, it's very well suited to BEV.

    The Jaguar is a lot more risky, with a lot more riding on it. There have been two conspicuous successes in that space (Tacyan and Wraith) but do Jaguar have the product engineering capabilties of Porsche and BMW? They might in this case, but probably not.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,695
    ydoethur said:

    An AV thread.

    Are we being punished for Leon’s crimes?

    I have been away on the first trip for my latest business. What crimes have I missed?
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,144
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Britain’s largest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, has delayed the planned launches of its new electric Range Rover and electric Jaguar models to give it time for more testing and for demand to pick up, the Guardian can reveal.

    JLR has written to customers waiting for the Range Rover Electric to inform them that deliveries of the new version of the model will not start until next year, after initially aiming for late 2025.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/18/jaguar-land-rover-delays-launch-range-rover-electric

    It is a bit sad to see the company commit suicide.
    Suicide implies there was another, superior strategy they could have adopted. If there is, I'd love to see it.

    I could see the electric RR being a success. If you think about the typical usage and the buying demographic, it's very well suited to BEV.

    The Jaguar is a lot more risky, with a lot more riding on it. There have been two conspicuous successes in that space (Tacyan and Wraith) but do Jaguar have the product engineering capabilties of Porsche and BMW? They might in this case, but probably not.
    When I worked there the people on Jag projects were the ones deemed not good enough to work on Land Rover
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    Trump is going to sue Rupert Murdoch for publishing a letter to Epstein

    Which means discovery...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump is going to sue Rupert Murdoch for publishing a letter to Epstein

    Which means discovery...

    Siri, show me what a complete idiot looks like.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    This is why I buy VIP tickets, nobody takes camera shots of us.
    No one ever accused you of just being very shy.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Britain’s largest carmaker, Jaguar Land Rover, has delayed the planned launches of its new electric Range Rover and electric Jaguar models to give it time for more testing and for demand to pick up, the Guardian can reveal.

    JLR has written to customers waiting for the Range Rover Electric to inform them that deliveries of the new version of the model will not start until next year, after initially aiming for late 2025.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/18/jaguar-land-rover-delays-launch-range-rover-electric

    It is a bit sad to see the company commit suicide.
    Suicide implies there was another, superior strategy they could have adopted. If there is, I'd love to see it.

    I could see the electric RR being a success. If you think about the typical usage and the buying demographic, it's very well suited to BEV.

    The Jaguar is a lot more risky, with a lot more riding on it. There have been two conspicuous successes in that space (Tacyan and Wraith) but do Jaguar have the product engineering capabilties of Porsche and BMW? They might in this case, but probably not.
    I guess they are looking at Aston Martin and the fact that they were a legacy brand with a crap situation until the DB7 came along and brought them back to life as a desirable luxury brand. It was not the best car, had crappy ford door openers and other kit I remember but it had the right image, styling and heritage.

    Jaguar have to get their first new model absolutely bang on in the looks and capabilities end of things and they could reboot but the Aston Martin story is their only hope I think.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,107
    Does it really matter who we elect. They are equally as bad as each other.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    Nigelb said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    This is why I buy VIP tickets, nobody takes camera shots of us.
    No one ever accused you of just being very shy.
    They did, up until the age of 19.

    At university I had a brashness chip installed.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    Well, SV is better than FPTP (or, the better descriptor, HPBP - highest pile of bits of paper :wink: ).

    Off topic, highly ambiguous headline on the Beeb this morning: "Unique 1.5m year-old ice to be melted to unlock mystery". I wondered what would be so special about a 1 year old 1.5m length of ice. Turns out it's a length of ice that is 1500000 million years old (at one end, presumably). I even used to work in this area, mostly on sediments, and still didn't get the headline!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,567
    boulay said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Does it really matter who we elect. They are equally as bad as each other.

    It’s absolutely vital for us at PB.

    Depending on who wins the election it establishes which posters have to tie themselves up like pretzels defending actions they know are stupid and which posters can sit back and laugh and claim their side would not have done as badly, despite their side doing as badly last time whilst a few can slag either side off safe in the knowledge they aren’t getting a sniff of power.
    Not to forget the critical fact for PB that depending on who wins establishes whether books are profitable or loss-making.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,567
    Selebian said:

    Well, SV is better than FPTP (or, the better descriptor, HPBP - highest pile of bits of paper :wink: ).

    Off topic, highly ambiguous headline on the Beeb this morning: "Unique 1.5m year-old ice to be melted to unlock mystery". I wondered what would be so special about a 1 year old 1.5m length of ice. Turns out it's a length of ice that is 1500000 million years old (at one end, presumably). I even used to work in this area, mostly on sediments, and still didn't get the headline!

    1500000 million years old is very impressive, I didn't think the universe was that old!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @svershbow

    Coldplay is funny, but what's the funniest band it could have been?



    And the winner is...Coldplay

    It could have been the Sex Pistols, perhaps?
    Their anger and embarrassment at being shown on big electronic screens could make them want to Rage Against The Machine.
    "F*ck me, I will do what you tell me"?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    DavidL said:

    Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI chief James Comey, was sacked as a US Attorney yesterday without any reason being stated. She has sent a memo to her colleagues:

    "Yesterday was unexpectedly my last day in the Office. I was summarily fired via memo from Main Justice that did not give a reason for my termination.

    Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos: Without Fear or Favor. Do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful.

    For the majority of my nearly ten years in SDNY, fear was never really conceivable. We don’t fear bad press; we have the luxury of exceptional security keeping us physically safe; and, so long as we did our work with integrity, we would get to keep serving the public in this office. Our focus was really on acting “without favor.” That is, making sure people with access, money, and power were not treated differently than anyone else; and making sure this office remained separate from politics and focused only on the facts and the law.

    But we have entered a new phase where “without fear” may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant, wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else.

    It has been an honor to fight for those principles by your side."

    And so the rule of law continues to die.

    Well, any aware New Yorker friends of Gardenwalker who are concerned about this, and Trump trying to stop and sue the WSJ for publishing something he doesn’t like, will no doubt sigh with relief that they are not in the UK where free speech goes to die because one person got locked up for a tweet (which shouldn’t have happened) and we proscribed PA.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    @LongTimeHistory
    Trump caught lying about knowing Prince Andrew & Epstein files—by Fox News.

    TRUMP: I don't know Prince Andrew, but it's a tough story. I don't know him, no.

    FOX: Here is a photo of Trump alongside the Prince and First Lady at his party at Mar-a-Lago that Epstein also attended.

    Trump claimed that he did not know Prince Andrew—but a resurfaced interview with People magazine from 2000 says otherwise—where Trump described Prince Andrew as "a lot of fun to be with."

    The article was re-released in 2019—just one day after he had denied knowing Prince Andrew during this press conference.

    https://x.com/LongTimeHistory/status/1945629141300088985
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Selebian said:

    Well, SV is better than FPTP (or, the better descriptor, HPBP - highest pile of bits of paper :wink: ).

    Off topic, highly ambiguous headline on the Beeb this morning: "Unique 1.5m year-old ice to be melted to unlock mystery". I wondered what would be so special about a 1 year old 1.5m length of ice. Turns out it's a length of ice that is 1500000 million years old (at one end, presumably). I even used to work in this area, mostly on sediments, and still didn't get the headline!

    1500000 million years old is very impressive, I didn't think the universe was that old!
    The BBC has forgotten the hyphen between m and year and our Selebian has also been forgetful…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,080
    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI chief James Comey, was sacked as a US Attorney yesterday without any reason being stated. She has sent a memo to her colleagues:

    "Yesterday was unexpectedly my last day in the Office. I was summarily fired via memo from Main Justice that did not give a reason for my termination.

    Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos: Without Fear or Favor. Do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful.

    For the majority of my nearly ten years in SDNY, fear was never really conceivable. We don’t fear bad press; we have the luxury of exceptional security keeping us physically safe; and, so long as we did our work with integrity, we would get to keep serving the public in this office. Our focus was really on acting “without favor.” That is, making sure people with access, money, and power were not treated differently than anyone else; and making sure this office remained separate from politics and focused only on the facts and the law.

    But we have entered a new phase where “without fear” may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant, wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else.

    It has been an honor to fight for those principles by your side."

    And so the rule of law continues to die.

    Well, any aware New Yorker friends of Gardenwalker who are concerned about this, and Trump trying to stop and sue the WSJ for publishing something he doesn’t like, will no doubt sigh with relief that they are not in the UK where free speech goes to die because one person got locked up for a tweet (which shouldn’t have happened) and we proscribed PA.
    Whilst I agree with the sentiment we should be very alert to the motes in our own eyes as the super injunction and now second injunction has all too clearly demonstrated. I take this message as a clarion call to all public prosecutors everywhere. It is an inspiring message.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    edited July 18
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Selebian said:

    Well, SV is better than FPTP (or, the better descriptor, HPBP - highest pile of bits of paper :wink: ).

    Off topic, highly ambiguous headline on the Beeb this morning: "Unique 1.5m year-old ice to be melted to unlock mystery". I wondered what would be so special about a 1 year old 1.5m length of ice. Turns out it's a length of ice that is 1500000 million years old (at one end, presumably). I even used to work in this area, mostly on sediments, and still didn't get the headline!

    1500000 million years old is very impressive, I didn't think the universe was that old!
    Dammit.

    I decided to switch from 1.5 million to numeric to avoid any ambiguity. That went well!

    I could work for the BBC!

    In the field it's the unambiguous 1.5Ma
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,318
    Scott_xP said:

    @LongTimeHistory
    Trump caught lying about knowing Prince Andrew & Epstein files—by Fox News.

    TRUMP: I don't know Prince Andrew, but it's a tough story. I don't know him, no.

    FOX: Here is a photo of Trump alongside the Prince and First Lady at his party at Mar-a-Lago that Epstein also attended.

    Trump claimed that he did not know Prince Andrew—but a resurfaced interview with People magazine from 2000 says otherwise—where Trump described Prince Andrew as "a lot of fun to be with."

    The article was re-released in 2019—just one day after he had denied knowing Prince Andrew during this press conference.

    https://x.com/LongTimeHistory/status/1945629141300088985

    Prince Andrew, Epstein, Maxwell, and Trump are like characters created by De Sade.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    DavidL said:

    Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI chief James Comey, was sacked as a US Attorney yesterday without any reason being stated. She has sent a memo to her colleagues:

    "Yesterday was unexpectedly my last day in the Office. I was summarily fired via memo from Main Justice that did not give a reason for my termination.

    Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos: Without Fear or Favor. Do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful.

    For the majority of my nearly ten years in SDNY, fear was never really conceivable. We don’t fear bad press; we have the luxury of exceptional security keeping us physically safe; and, so long as we did our work with integrity, we would get to keep serving the public in this office. Our focus was really on acting “without favor.” That is, making sure people with access, money, and power were not treated differently than anyone else; and making sure this office remained separate from politics and focused only on the facts and the law.

    But we have entered a new phase where “without fear” may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant, wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else.

    It has been an honor to fight for those principles by your side."

    And so the rule of law continues to die.

    Trump just nominated another of his crooked lawyers (Bove) for a judgeship.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    edited July 18
    boulay said:

    From elsewhere:

    Coldplay haven’t released a single for years then overnight they create four new ones.

    Two, assuming the boss is single given his recent divorce?

    Edit/ reading that back, I must have just had an HY moment
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    DavidL said:

    Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI chief James Comey, was sacked as a US Attorney yesterday without any reason being stated. She has sent a memo to her colleagues:

    "Yesterday was unexpectedly my last day in the Office. I was summarily fired via memo from Main Justice that did not give a reason for my termination.

    Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos: Without Fear or Favor. Do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful.

    For the majority of my nearly ten years in SDNY, fear was never really conceivable. We don’t fear bad press; we have the luxury of exceptional security keeping us physically safe; and, so long as we did our work with integrity, we would get to keep serving the public in this office. Our focus was really on acting “without favor.” That is, making sure people with access, money, and power were not treated differently than anyone else; and making sure this office remained separate from politics and focused only on the facts and the law.

    But we have entered a new phase where “without fear” may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant, wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else.

    It has been an honor to fight for those principles by your side."

    And so the rule of law continues to die.

    Well, any aware New Yorker friends of Gardenwalker who are concerned about this, and Trump trying to stop and sue the WSJ for publishing something he doesn’t like, will no doubt sigh with relief that they are not in the UK where free speech goes to die because one person got locked up for a tweet (which shouldn’t have happened) and we proscribed PA.
    Whilst I agree with the sentiment we should be very alert to the motes in our own eyes as the super injunction and now second injunction has all too clearly demonstrated. I take this message as a clarion call to all public prosecutors everywhere. It is an inspiring message.
    Absolutely agree and despair at the state of the UK but I do get somewhat annoyed by obnoxious US liberals thinking our issues are remotely on the same level of craptitude as the US.

    I still find it odd how the judge “supersized” the request for the injunction to a super injunction off his own bat. That’s also concerning.

    Shapps confirming on Today earlier that Starmer was briefed as were the speakers of Commons and Lords which makes the outrage and surprised sounds coming from Hoyle and Starmer yesterday pretty tedious.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,592
    boulay said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Does it really matter who we elect. They are equally as bad as each other.

    It’s absolutely vital for us at PB.

    Depending on who wins the election it establishes which posters have to tie themselves up like pretzels defending actions they know are stupid and which posters can sit back and laugh and claim their side would not have done as badly, despite their side doing as badly last time whilst a few can slag either side off safe in the knowledge they aren’t getting a sniff of power.
    Lol, that describes the dynamic quite well. I think I might rebrand as 'independent free thinker' beholden to no party, assessor of all issues without fear or favour strictly on their merits. It's the soft option, I know, but sometimes in life you have to give yourself a break.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,695
    Q: As Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into the mire, could this bring him down?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI chief James Comey, was sacked as a US Attorney yesterday without any reason being stated. She has sent a memo to her colleagues:

    "Yesterday was unexpectedly my last day in the Office. I was summarily fired via memo from Main Justice that did not give a reason for my termination.

    Every person lucky enough to work in this office constantly hears four words to describe our ethos: Without Fear or Favor. Do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons without fear of retribution and without favor to the powerful.

    For the majority of my nearly ten years in SDNY, fear was never really conceivable. We don’t fear bad press; we have the luxury of exceptional security keeping us physically safe; and, so long as we did our work with integrity, we would get to keep serving the public in this office. Our focus was really on acting “without favor.” That is, making sure people with access, money, and power were not treated differently than anyone else; and making sure this office remained separate from politics and focused only on the facts and the law.

    But we have entered a new phase where “without fear” may be the challenge. If a career prosecutor can be fired without reason, fear may seep into the decisions of those who remain. Do not let that happen. Fear is the tool of a tyrant, wielded to suppress independent thought. Instead of fear, let this moment fuel the fire that already burns at the heart of this place. A fire of righteous indignation at abuses of power. Of commitment to seek justice for victims. Of dedication to truth above all else.

    It has been an honor to fight for those principles by your side."

    And so the rule of law continues to die.

    Trump just nominated another of his crooked lawyers (Bove) for a judgeship.
    900 other lawyers wrote objecting to his appointment
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    DavidL said:

    Stables and doors come to mind but it is not a good thing that parties of all stripes are wanting to constantly muck about with the electoral systems to their obvious and patent advantage. Democracy is under enough strain without the players changing their rules to their advantage.

    There was a time when a quasi independent body like a Royal Commission would have looked at this. Now, whatever helps us is good. I emphasise that this is not a party political point. The Conservatives' changes were equally blatant.

    Tbf, that is not really true:

    1832 - franchise adjusted to widen the borough franchise to favour the Whigs
    1867 - franchise adjusted to ensure the Conservatives kept control of redistricting
    1885 - franchise adjusted to favour the Liberals, but as a Faustian bargain to get it through the Lords they conceded control of redistricting to the Conservatives who immediately adjusted seat boundaries to favour themselves.
    1918 - franchise extended to those who 'won the war' so they could vote for 'the man who won the war'
    1928 - franchise extended when CCO realised that women were majority Conservative voters.
    1969 - franchise extended in the belief younger voters favoured Labour
    2014 - franchise in Scotland extended because the SNP thought younger voters would vote for independence and make more of a statement to Westminster.

    And almost all of those calculations were correct. 1832 and 1969 would stand out as exceptions.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,195
    edited July 18
    deleted
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Q: As Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into the mire, could this bring him down?

    How?

    Remember, only one US President has ever been removed from office - and he didn't have the judiciary and Congress on his side.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Q: As Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into the mire, could this bring him down?

    @NoahGarfinkel

    We’re now in the “walls are closing in on Trump” part of the story arc that always happens right before there are still no political or legal consequences. We’re all going to die before he does.

    https://x.com/NoahGarfinkel/status/1945964365762433339
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Q: As Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into the mire, could this bring him down?

    How?

    Remember, only one US President has ever been removed from office - and he didn't have the judiciary and Congress on his side.
    Arguably a number have been removed from office, just not by legal means.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,781
    edited July 18
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Q: As Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into the mire, could this bring him down?

    How?

    Remember, only one US President has ever been removed from office - and he didn't have the judiciary and Congress on his side.
    Arguably a number have been removed from office, just not by legal means.
    Yes, but somebody tried that with Trump and missed.

    Edit - really, the one assassination designed to remove a president from office for actively political reasons, rather than hurt feelings, political principles or just what the hell, would be Garfield in 1881 - and even that was by somebody sore about not getting a diplomatic post.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,512
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, this is again about favouring Labour as you obliquely note. They are assuming that in a forced choice of the big two in any given area they will be most people’s second choice.

    I’m not sure they’re right. How many people will understand the system? Or even use it? (Do we have statistics from when it was used before as to the numbers who used one vote only?)

    My instinct, which is of course usually only slightly more accurate than Leon’s, is that the mayoral elections are seen as a free hit against the whole party system and the value is probably in backing Greens and Independents, particularly if Reform have bad press over their local council performances.

    For example in 2012

    Of the 375,377 votes for the non top 2 parties just 185,235 expressed a second preference.

    PS I note obliquely is a synonym for subtle.
    But is the 185k just those who expressed a 2nd preference and it was one of the top 2 candidates? Or did it include those who gave a 2nd preference that was not valid?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,442
    edited July 18
    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 419
    The Header reminds me of a section in Seth Alexander Thevoz's recent book on London Clubland (Behind Closed Doors, Robinson, 2022 £12.99) where he quotes the aristocratic grandees of Whites and Brooke's in the nineteenth century, who justified secret ballots for their own affairs but regarded them as unconscionable and unneccessary for public events such as Parliamentary elections.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,435
    Exhaustive Ballot ISN'T "Quasi-AV". It's the, er, Exhaustive Ballot.

    I wonder if TSE is aware of Dave Cameron (PBUH)'s opinion of AV? :lol:
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Only until the next BBC scandal. I’m personally looking forward to it coming out that Naga Munchetty was the person who topped Epstein but we have to wait for Trump to release the files I guess.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,093
    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Stables and doors come to mind but it is not a good thing that parties of all stripes are wanting to constantly muck about with the electoral systems to their obvious and patent advantage. Democracy is under enough strain without the players changing their rules to their advantage.

    There was a time when a quasi independent body like a Royal Commission would have looked at this. Now, whatever helps us is good. I emphasise that this is not a party political point. The Conservatives' changes were equally blatant.

    Tbf, that is not really true:

    1832 - franchise adjusted to widen the borough franchise to favour the Whigs
    1867 - franchise adjusted to ensure the Conservatives kept control of redistricting
    1885 - franchise adjusted to favour the Liberals, but as a Faustian bargain to get it through the Lords they conceded control of redistricting to the Conservatives who immediately adjusted seat boundaries to favour themselves.
    1918 - franchise extended to those who 'won the war' so they could vote for 'the man who won the war'
    1928 - franchise extended when CCO realised that women were majority Conservative voters.
    1969 - franchise extended in the belief younger voters favoured Labour
    2014 - franchise in Scotland extended because the SNP thought younger voters would vote for independence and make more of a statement to Westminster.

    And almost all of those calculations were correct. 1832 and 1969 would stand out as exceptions.
    Not to mention the changes allowing Brits overseas to vote, and the later removal of the time limit, both done by Tories for political advantage
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,358
    On topic, isn't the "least worst" voting system dictated by this being for single appointment elections?
    STV* is multi-member specific and would reduce to this for a single elected member.

    *My understanding of STV, and how it is gamed in practice, was greatly increased by PB's Ireland election expert.
    My STV enthusiastic Politics teacher never mentioned running only a single candidate in a 5 member constituency to increase your chances, or that no party would ever run 5, instead taking a punt on whether 2 or 3 candidates.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,764
    edited July 18
    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    The story according to social media - and I include this place in that, a bit - is that of two rich people being caught having an affair, inadvertently, by a third unrelated rich person.

    I remember an article years back by an anthropologist who stayed with remote tribes in Africa. "What are their main topics of conversation?" "High status people contravening behavioural norms."

    To be clear, I'm not berating *people* for this - I've been guilty too of taking an interest - I'm just amused by what humans choose to focus on.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    algarkirk said:

    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.

    That interview with Maynard was quite the thing. A clearly rational, calm and humane person explains clearly what he has seen and experienced will probably have more effect long term than a hundred interviews with Palestinians who can be brushed off as having a bias.

    His account will hold more currency as he is “one of us”. It might be wrong to see it that way but it’s true.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,093
    AugustusCarp2 said:

    The Header reminds me of a section in Seth Alexander Thevoz's recent book on London Clubland (Behind Closed Doors, Robinson, 2022 £12.99) where he quotes the aristocratic grandees of Whites and Brooke's in the nineteenth century, who justified secret ballots for their own affairs but regarded them as unconscionable and unneccessary for public events such as Parliamentary elections.

    Of the infinity of joys in Anthony Trollope the accounts of elections and how they worked, and the associated political hypocrisy are among the greatest. Found both in the Barchester (eg Dr Thorne) and the Palliser sequence. About 8,000 pages of distilled and unending delight.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    Turns out tariffing Brazil has knock on effects.
    Who could have guessed ?

    Brazil triples rare earth exports to China as Washington-Beijing rift ripples through trade
    https://x.com/DavidLe76335983/status/1946020953655304322
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,195
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Stables and doors come to mind but it is not a good thing that parties of all stripes are wanting to constantly muck about with the electoral systems to their obvious and patent advantage. Democracy is under enough strain without the players changing their rules to their advantage.

    There was a time when a quasi independent body like a Royal Commission would have looked at this. Now, whatever helps us is good. I emphasise that this is not a party political point. The Conservatives' changes were equally blatant.

    Tbf, that is not really true:

    1832 - franchise adjusted to widen the borough franchise to favour the Whigs
    1867 - franchise adjusted to ensure the Conservatives kept control of redistricting
    1885 - franchise adjusted to favour the Liberals, but as a Faustian bargain to get it through the Lords they conceded control of redistricting to the Conservatives who immediately adjusted seat boundaries to favour themselves.
    1918 - franchise extended to those who 'won the war' so they could vote for 'the man who won the war'
    1928 - franchise extended when CCO realised that women were majority Conservative voters.
    1969 - franchise extended in the belief younger voters favoured Labour
    2014 - franchise in Scotland extended because the SNP thought younger voters would vote for independence and make more of a statement to Westminster.

    And almost all of those calculations were correct. 1832 and 1969 would stand out as exceptions.
    Not to mention the changes allowing Brits overseas to vote, and the later removal of the time limit, both done by Tories for political advantage
    And the requirement for photo-ID, and the forthcoming watering down of it by allowing bank cards.

    And Cameron's gerrymandering (and/or attempted gerrymandering) to create more Conservative-leaning seats.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,764
    Dopermean said:

    On topic, isn't the "least worst" voting system dictated by this being for single appointment elections?
    STV* is multi-member specific and would reduce to this for a single elected member.

    *My understanding of STV, and how it is gamed in practice, was greatly increased by PB's Ireland election expert.
    My STV enthusiastic Politics teacher never mentioned running only a single candidate in a 5 member constituency to increase your chances, or that no party would ever run 5, instead taking a punt on whether 2 or 3 candidates.

    That approach doesn't really increase the chances for a given party. It does however increase the chances of the individuals from the party that the party favours getting elected.

    You're right about the single-member aspect though - I brought this up yesterday, and @bondegezou quite rightly replied that he had been talking about SV (which is appropriate for single member constituencies), not STV (which is not), and I had misread. A rogue 'T' appears to have been reinserted into the topic.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,435
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Exhaustive Ballot ISN'T "Quasi-AV". It's the, er, Exhaustive Ballot.

    I wonder if TSE is aware of Dave Cameron (PBUH)'s opinion of AV? :lol:

    Cameron described AV as "undemocratic, obscure, unfair and crazy".[77]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum#Campaign_positions
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 419
    algarkirk said:

    AugustusCarp2 said:

    The Header reminds me of a section in Seth Alexander Thevoz's recent book on London Clubland (Behind Closed Doors, Robinson, 2022 £12.99) where he quotes the aristocratic grandees of Whites and Brooke's in the nineteenth century, who justified secret ballots for their own affairs but regarded them as unconscionable and unneccessary for public events such as Parliamentary elections.

    Of the infinity of joys in Anthony Trollope the accounts of elections and how they worked, and the associated political hypocrisy are among the greatest. Found both in the Barchester (eg Dr Thorne) and the Palliser sequence. About 8,000 pages of distilled and unending delight.
    I have them all on my shelves, and must go and look at them again - thanks for the prompt! (Not one of his political ones, but I reckon his "Dr Wortle's School" is one of the best short stories ever. Ludicrous sub-plot, but the main story cries out to be a TV mini-series.)
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 419
    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.

    That interview with Maynard was quite the thing. A clearly rational, calm and humane person explains clearly what he has seen and experienced will probably have more effect long term than a hundred interviews with Palestinians who can be brushed off as having a bias.

    His account will hold more currency as he is “one of us”. It might be wrong to see it that way but it’s true.
    Indeed. He was almost approaching the subject in the style of an epidemiologist, observing patterns of medical phenomena and then setting out to analyse why they occur.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,568
    AugustusCarp2 said:

    The Header reminds me of a section in Seth Alexander Thevoz's recent book on London Clubland (Behind Closed Doors, Robinson, 2022 £12.99) where he quotes the aristocratic grandees of Whites and Brooke's in the nineteenth century, who justified secret ballots for their own affairs but regarded them as unconscionable and unneccessary for public events such as Parliamentary elections.

    This is a nice article on public poll books: https://ecppec.ncl.ac.uk/features/poll-books-a-history/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,015
    Nigelb said:

    Turns out tariffing Brazil has knock on effects.
    Who could have guessed ?

    Brazil triples rare earth exports to China as Washington-Beijing rift ripples through trade
    https://x.com/DavidLe76335983/status/1946020953655304322

    Like the 50% tariff on copper, making raw materials imports more expensive is the least efficient way possible to use tariffs to encourage domestic industry.

    China is by some distance the cheapest refiner/processor of rare earths. This just further entrenches their competitive (and strategic) advantage.

    Being the only high tariff economy on the planet, while the rest of the world practices something pretty close to free trade, is a potentially disastrous strategy, even for a continental economy like the US.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    edited July 18
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Exhaustive Ballot ISN'T "Quasi-AV". It's the, er, Exhaustive Ballot.

    I wonder if TSE is aware of Dave Cameron (PBUH)'s opinion of AV? :lol:

    It has multiple rounds of voting eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a final two, just like AV.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    AugustusCarp2 said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.

    That interview with Maynard was quite the thing. A clearly rational, calm and humane person explains clearly what he has seen and experienced will probably have more effect long term than a hundred interviews with Palestinians who can be brushed off as having a bias.

    His account will hold more currency as he is “one of us”. It might be wrong to see it that way but it’s true.
    Indeed. He was almost approaching the subject in the style of an epidemiologist, observing patterns of medical phenomena and then setting out to analyse why they occur.
    My own biases would have raised an eyebrow if, for example, a Palestinian aid worker had been talking about quad-copters strafing tents however the way he coolly and almost neutrally described what he was seeing and dealing with was very hard to find fault with.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,478
    Nigelb said:

    Being the only high tariff economy on the planet, while the rest of the world practices something pretty close to free trade, is a potentially disastrous strategy, even for a continental economy like the US.

    For somebody as supposedly smart as Trump, he does some really dumb shit, constantly...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,934
    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    Pulpstar said:

    Bayeux tapestry bet

    Placed 17th Jan 2018 £100 @ 1-2 British museum.

    Settled as a loser 3rd May 2022

    Contacted Ladbrokes and resettled as a winner 8th July 2025 :)

    If you have long term bets, make a note of the reference outside the bookmakers as they only keep the "settled" bets visible for ~ a year.

    So what are you spending your winnings on?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,592
    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    We were talking about what's in the news.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,358
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, this is again about favouring Labour as you obliquely note. They are assuming that in a forced choice of the big two in any given area they will be most people’s second choice.

    I’m not sure they’re right. How many people will understand the system? Or even use it? (Do we have statistics from when it was used before as to the numbers who used one vote only?)

    My instinct, which is of course usually only slightly more accurate than Leon’s, is that the mayoral elections are seen as a free hit against the whole party system and the value is probably in backing Greens and Independents, particularly if Reform have bad press over their local council performances.

    For example in 2012

    Of the 375,377 votes for the non top 2 parties just 185,235 expressed a second preference.

    PS I note obliquely is a synonym for subtle.
    Isn't the change more an anti "fringe minority" measure?
    We know that in low turnout votes a populist fringe candidate can enthuse a large enough minority to come top with a small % of the vote, see PCCs, EU elections etc and that they might be completely unsuitable to hold elected office. They're not all going to be people with the integrity and personal attributes of Count Binface or Hangus, it could be Susan Hall or Lawrence Fox.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,249
    LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.

    Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,442
    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    Even if you don't care about the Afghans, the 100 UK secret service agents on Starmer's lost spreadsheet should be a bit of a worry. You probably know a few of them from drinking at Goodwin's in Bartestree. Well the Taliban, Russians, Chinese, Iranians and North Koreans also know them too now.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,031
    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    Given that the Taliban had the full records of the Afghan government and complete control of the country (with no shortage of informers) there was very likely nothing on the email that they didn't know already.

    The UK taxpayer has been grifted, aided and abetted by self-righteous, simple minded fools such as Ben Wallace.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,567
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Exhaustive Ballot ISN'T "Quasi-AV". It's the, er, Exhaustive Ballot.

    I wonder if TSE is aware of Dave Cameron (PBUH)'s opinion of AV? :lol:

    It has multiple rounds of voting eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a final two, just like AV.
    Which is an entirely different system to a single ballot as it allows fresh campaigning between votes and people to concentrate their thinking on the remaining candidates in a considered fashion.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,170
    Sandpit said:

    LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.

    Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.

    Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,442
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    We were talking about what's in the news.
    Why follow the theme of the post when you can introduce an asylum seeker element to the conversation?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,093
    boulay said:

    AugustusCarp2 said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.

    That interview with Maynard was quite the thing. A clearly rational, calm and humane person explains clearly what he has seen and experienced will probably have more effect long term than a hundred interviews with Palestinians who can be brushed off as having a bias.

    His account will hold more currency as he is “one of us”. It might be wrong to see it that way but it’s true.
    Indeed. He was almost approaching the subject in the style of an epidemiologist, observing patterns of medical phenomena and then setting out to analyse why they occur.
    My own biases would have raised an eyebrow if, for example, a Palestinian aid worker had been talking about quad-copters strafing tents however the way he coolly and almost neutrally described what he was seeing and dealing with was very hard to find fault with.
    Yes. Such questions as I have are the recurring ones that all givers of direct evidence have a tendency to see the crimes of one side only. I have yet to hear of anyone one would expect to be a neutral humanitarian who is or has been in Gaza go into detail or provide evidence about the war crimes and other evil deeds of Hamas.

    For myself I am persuaded that there have been war crimes on both sides.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,934
    another_richard said:

    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    Given that the Taliban had the full records of the Afghan government and complete control of the country (with no shortage of informers) there was very likely nothing on the email that they didn't know already.

    The UK taxpayer has been grifted, aided and abetted by self-righteous, simple minded fools such as Ben Wallace.
    Yes, it’s incredible. And these dumbos still don’t understand what they did and why, medium term, it is profoundly dangerous

    The one ex-minister who does seem to get it is Mercer

    As he puts it, we’ve not even saved the actual (few) fighters that served with us. But we ARE saving thousands of people with almost no connection to the UK - and their families - at vast expense. And some with records of violence and sexual crimes

    Northern Rock, day 2:

    Queues shuffle in some northern town. Papers take a polite, declining interest. @Roger declares it will be “over by Friday”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,223
    "...carbon nanotubes, now starting to match the conductivity of copper, and with greater tensile strength. The cost is plummeting, in the manner of Moore’s Law. Korean scientists have just built a metal-free electric motor with carbon nanotubes that cuts weight by 80pc."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/18/donald-trumps-copper-war-insane-act-self-harm
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,934
    Mexicanpete said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    I thought the story of a super injunction by two separate parties of government after the details of a hundred Secret Service Agents , Special Boat and Special Forces operatives were leaked to the Taliban would run and run. But no Diane Abbott is the story

    Really?

    “Vast majority of Afghans on ‘kill list’ were bogus asylum seekers”

    Telegraph
    We were talking about what's in the news.
    Why follow the theme of the post when you can introduce an asylum seeker element to the conversation?
    Er, and lol, I was responding to someone else mentioning this scandal FIRST on this thread. And who was that?

    Ah, it was you
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,933
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bayeux tapestry bet

    Placed 17th Jan 2018 £100 @ 1-2 British museum.

    Settled as a loser 3rd May 2022

    Contacted Ladbrokes and resettled as a winner 8th July 2025 :)

    If you have long term bets, make a note of the reference outside the bookmakers as they only keep the "settled" bets visible for ~ a year.

    So what are you spending your winnings on?
    We might go and see it in 2026/27 tbh. So it'll cover 2 cans of pop, the inevitable toy and half a sandwich from pret.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,358
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump is going to sue Rupert Murdoch for publishing a letter to Epstein

    Which means discovery...

    Sadly I suspect you are being overly optimistic.

    This has all the hallmarks of a Rupert Murdoch pantomime production.

    There will be a furore staged on social media about the WSJ publishing this letter
    Trump will bluster and threaten, the WSJ will claim great journalistic integrity and the "public interest"
    All the news and commentators will focus on the disclosure of this "letter"
    After a few days it will be published, it will be salacious but inconclusive and not definitively linked to Trump, there will be witness evidence that he can't type, let alone draw

    Meanwhile the laundry hamper containing the flight logs, video, photographs, emails, witness and victim statements will be quietly carried off stage and hidden.

    Murdoch has used his media empire for these pantomimes for years, to persecute the weak and vulnerable and to deflect from the truth to protect the powerful, all in his own interests.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,779
    boulay said:

    …

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.

    Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.

    Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.
    “Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”
    It’s probably different in America but in Britain I am pretty sure that infidelity or otherwise has no bearing on the financial settlement between divorcing spouses, so it wouldn’t make a difference.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,806
    Pulpstar said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bayeux tapestry bet

    Placed 17th Jan 2018 £100 @ 1-2 British museum.

    Settled as a loser 3rd May 2022

    Contacted Ladbrokes and resettled as a winner 8th July 2025 :)

    If you have long term bets, make a note of the reference outside the bookmakers as they only keep the "settled" bets visible for ~ a year.

    So what are you spending your winnings on?
    We might go and see it in 2026/27 tbh. So it'll cover 2 cans of pop, the inevitable toy and half a sandwich from pret.
    Or you could do a weekend break in Bayeaux to see the Sutton Hoo treasures.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,223
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out tariffing Brazil has knock on effects.
    Who could have guessed ?

    Brazil triples rare earth exports to China as Washington-Beijing rift ripples through trade
    https://x.com/DavidLe76335983/status/1946020953655304322

    Like the 50% tariff on copper, making raw materials imports more expensive is the least efficient way possible to use tariffs to encourage domestic industry.

    China is by some distance the cheapest refiner/processor of rare earths. This just further entrenches their competitive (and strategic) advantage.

    Being the only high tariff economy on the planet, while the rest of the world practices something pretty close to free trade, is a potentially disastrous strategy, even for a continental economy like the US.
    AEP has a new piece on Trump's stupid copper tariff:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/07/18/donald-trumps-copper-war-insane-act-self-harm
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,455
    Selebian said:

    Loosely on the topic of electoral reform, just received my annual notification to update voter registrations at our address.

    The address to visit? https://www.householdresponse.com/northyorkshire
    It is legitimate apparently, but well done to whoever decided to register $randomdomain.com for this rather than using something .gov.uk - it has all the hallmarks of a scam and it would be dead simple for someone else to register householdresponses.com or householdresponse.[other TLA] and send out emails. It reminds me of when Nationwide thought olb.nationet.com was a pukka domain for their online banking, rather than something.nationwide.co.uk

    I would never, I hope, reply to an official-looking email unless it came from a gov.uk address.

    On a different topic, do we know where our friend HYUFD was last night, in view of the 'goings on' in Epping?

    On yet another different topic I don't seem to have had a reply to my enquiry about OGH.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,934
    edited July 18
    boulay said:

    …

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL that “Coldplay concert” is the #1 trend this morning, and it’s all because a billionaire is about to get divorced.

    Imagine being so bad to your wife that you went to a Coldplay concert.

    Imagine being her divorce lawyers, you’d be happier than a pig in muck.
    “Give my client what she wants or we will publicly reveal it’s actually the second time you’ve been to a Coldplay concert.”
    Why are people so absurdly snooty about Coldplay

    It’s a middle middle class affectation, I think. A slightly insecure signalling of “superior” taste, done by people who are, perhaps subconsciously, nervous of their social status

    We had the same with Bee Gees. It was fashionable amongst the middlebrow to diss them. Now we all accept they were musical geniuses. Which they were
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,625
    edited July 18
    algarkirk said:

    A bit of why O why; Merz on R4 Today this morning pointing out that the EU helped the 2016 Referendum leave campaign and perhaps altered the result by its inflexibility.

    Why is this obvious stuff realised too late? The EU had two big chances, before the vote and after. Both times they missed the point.

    Is it too late now to sort it?

    BTW, also on R4 Today this morning, the clearest and simplest account I have heard, from Professor Maynard in Gaza, of evidence pointing to Israeli war crimes. between 7.30 and 8 am.

    But contra the current Diane Abbott racism kerfuffle, Israeli war crimes are DIFFERENT from other war crimes, possibly not even war crimes at all.
    But anyway, I'm sure the IDF will give itself a right old investigating and all will be well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,934
    JUST TO PROVE THE POINT I am now playing “How Deep Is Your Love” by the Bee Gees on my Sonos system, in my exquisite new bedroom, with its fabulously painted radiator, as the Primrose Hill sun slants onto my Royal Bhutanese silk throw

    What a song. What a bedroom. What a radiator
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,218
    OldKingCole said:

    Selebian said:

    Loosely on the topic of electoral reform, just received my annual notification to update voter registrations at our address.

    The address to visit? https://www.householdresponse.com/northyorkshire
    It is legitimate apparently, but well done to whoever decided to register $randomdomain.com for this rather than using something .gov.uk - it has all the hallmarks of a scam and it would be dead simple for someone else to register householdresponses.com or householdresponse.[other TLA] and send out emails. It reminds me of when Nationwide thought olb.nationet.com was a pukka domain for their online banking, rather than something.nationwide.co.uk

    I would never, I hope, reply to an official-looking email unless it came from a gov.uk address.

    On a different topic, do we know where our friend HYUFD was last night, in view of the 'goings on' in Epping?

    On yet another different topic I don't seem to have had a reply to my enquiry about OGH.
    He doesn’t live in Epping any more. If he did, he could have sent his tanks to sort it out.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    OldKingCole said:

    Selebian said:

    Loosely on the topic of electoral reform, just received my annual notification to update voter registrations at our address.

    The address to visit? https://www.householdresponse.com/northyorkshire
    It is legitimate apparently, but well done to whoever decided to register $randomdomain.com for this rather than using something .gov.uk - it has all the hallmarks of a scam and it would be dead simple for someone else to register householdresponses.com or householdresponse.[other TLA] and send out emails. It reminds me of when Nationwide thought olb.nationet.com was a pukka domain for their online banking, rather than something.nationwide.co.uk

    I would never, I hope, reply to an official-looking email unless it came from a gov.uk address.

    On a different topic, do we know where our friend HYUFD was last night, in view of the 'goings on' in Epping?

    On yet another different topic I don't seem to have had a reply to my enquiry about OGH.
    It's extremely easy to fake email sender addresses.* Though less easy than it was in some cases - e.g. Google will flag up emails from gmail addresses that were not sent/authenticated through their servers or an approved server**. I don't know whether they do any checking of other emails such as gov.uk

    * I once did a revenge April-Fool joke (she'd got me good earlier in the day) that involved an email apparently not from me, but from a mutual friend to my now wife that also made use of the legitwebsite/somelongurl@therealdomainused.com trick and a lightly edited web page from a popular news organisation - that also from the days before browsers flagged that trick up!
    ** I used to use a personal server to send email from my GMail address, as it was easier for the email web-client software I had on the same server. I had to switch to theirs when this happened.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,436
    If Mayoral elections are elected by SV that would be ironically good news for Tory candidates in Mayoral elections in new unitary areas. In Essex next year for example Reform would likely win the Mayoral election under FPTP but the Tories could win it with Labour and LD preferences.

    In London it may help Khan though as LD and Green voters will likely be more than Reform votes if likely Conservative candidate Cleverly wins on first preferences
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