Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Recent history suggests Badenoch will not make it to the general election – politicalbetting.com

12467

Comments

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,582
    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,343

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
    Not under FPTP no, though as Canada shows if the left and liberals tactically vote massively they can keep out a hard right leader even under FPTP
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,284

    carnforth said:

    Timpson comes out of hiding:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/08/gangs-influence-jails-keeps-me-awake-james-timpson-prisons

    Something in there for PB Gauke afficionados too.

    And says what of any use? Gangs run so many prisons, whether OCG or Islamist. Much prison violence is about showing who is in charge. Still, it is good to know that under ToryLab privatisation rules, Serco will keep their probation contract despite past failures.
    I had an attempted murder trial where a guy had had this throat cut in prison. 3 men were on trial but the actual cutting had clearly been done by a fourth person who wasn't even on trial. The interesting thing about him was that, despite him having been on the landing for over a year, no one could remember his name. No one ever saw him (including the prison staff). The fact that he had gone into the cell where the throat was cut after the victim had been assaulted by the others was almost completely overlooked. His cell wasn't searched. The victim, whose throat was cut, could not remember seeing him.

    Until one of the 3 accused tried to lodge a special defence of incrimination related to him. Everyone was shocked and not a little fearful. The view of his co-accused was that he had signed his death warrant. It was an interesting insight into who really ran that prison.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,582
    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,513
    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The fact that Sir Keir said he would respect the referendum result "as a matter of principle", then fought tooth and nail for a second go at it, then won the leadership promising to keep freedom of movement, then ruled it out in power, as well as reneging on pledges to scrap tuition fees, privatise utilities and so on just seems to wash straight over Labour voters heads, despite an unerring ability to spot every inconsistency in a right wing politician
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,478
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    They wouldn't, no poll showed any other Dem from Newsom to Buttigieg to Shapiro beating Trump either.

    The deciding factor was cost of living and that won it for Trump. Though equally his tariffs mean the same issue is sending swing voters away from him and the GOP again even if his core vote like heavy tariffs on imports swing voters don't
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,582
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
    Trump won because the Dems offered less competence and moderation than he did.

    Farage will win if the alternatives offer less competence and moderation than he does.

    Note that the establishment's view on immigration, energy and crime are not viewed as competent and moderate by most people.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,284

    DavidL said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    They made believing in not just Brexit, but a damaging hard Brexit, a purity test, and everyone not foolish enough has left or was driven away
    Poor quality candidates and MP’s considerably pre-date 2016.
    Certainly so, and in all parties.

    The Tories have a particular issue in having only 120 MPs to choose from, and a substantial share of those being either discredited by being in the last government, on defection watch, mad as a box of frogs, or all of the above.

    The next Tory PM is not on the front bench at present, may not even be in parliament and possibly not yet born.

    Next Tory PM in 2034


    I'm in my early 60s. I have yet to be convinced that I will live long enough to see another Tory PM. A recovery from 2024 is more than a single generation event.
    Nigel Farage? He would argue he is the embodiment of UK Conservatism.

    I am not sure I would agree, but it's not my side of the fence so I don't fully understand what makes one a Conservative.
    If he was on fire I wouldn't piss on him. Being a right wing bigot doesn't make someone a Conservative, at least not any kind of Conservative that I would ever want to be.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 758
    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    Hence the different expectations of Brexit. This two (or three faced) approach they've stolen from the LibDems.

    So a LD administration (Copyright TSE) with Reform as the opposition is going to cause a lot of confusion with those who wants the policies enacted. Luckily Kemi has foregone any policy announcements for now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,343
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
    Not under FPTP no, though as Canada shows if the left and liberals tactically vote massively they can keep out a hard right leader even under FPTP
    If needs be I’d vote Tory to stop Reform . And you know that’s hard for me to say !
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,343
    edited 2:50PM

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
    Trump won because the Dems offered less competence and moderation than he did.

    Farage will win if the alternatives offer less competence and moderation than he does.

    Note that the establishment's view on immigration, energy and crime are not viewed as competent and moderate by most people.
    Less competence and moderation. Trump is neither competent or moderate and too many excuses are made for why people voted for Trump . The reality is much more dark than issues about moderation etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Look what happened in the USA . Farage doesn’t even need 49% to get in .
    Not under FPTP no, though as Canada shows if the left and liberals tactically vote massively they can keep out a hard right leader even under FPTP
    If needs be I’d vote Tory to stop Reform . And you know that’s hard for me to say !
    I would depend on what flavour of Tory is on offer as PM. If it is Jenrick or Braverman, it would have to be the written -in cock and balls party.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,966
    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Oh I'm already aware of Reform voters who don't believe anything you tell them that contradicts their world view.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,343
    edited 2:58PM
    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,497

    viewcode said:

    Steve Richards has a bsky and occasionally appears on podcasts. Enjoy. https://bsky.app/profile/steverichards.bsky.social

    Humour?
    Possibly. I've never sat through his "Rock and Roll Politics" sessions and he may be a bit outdated now: he is aging out. However I've enjoyed his books and his occasional formal political presentations (see YouTube) and if you go to BBC iPlayer and search for his name there's usually something interesting
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,812
    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    The collapse of the Tories is entirely explainable by Brexit. They completely trashed their brand.

    Yes, they are supposed to be a party of pragmatists, but people like Gauke and Grieve acted like fanatics when the vote went against them. Cameron indulged the Europhiles too much and it ended up destroying the party.
    Give your head a wobble. You know this isn't true. Back in the day you were more than aware Brexit would most likely turn into a fiasco.
    There’s no evidence new williamglenn is the same as the old williamglen, although both versions are categorically insane.
    Not sure that's fair.

    Williamglenn favours superpowers, be it the British Empire, America or the European Union, in which Britain has a driving say.

    It's a slightly niche view, but a coherent one and I think he's remarkably consistent.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack

    As a fellow asthmatic, that makes me quite angry. I've had similar mucking about from my GP. They refused to renew my prescription for a Salbutamol inhaler because they decided with no warning or consultation to switch me to a powder inhaler which contains steroids.

    I pointed out I have an eye condition that can be negatively affected by steroids, to which the response was "we'll get back to you". So I ordered a new inhaler from one of those online pharmacies that just ask a few questions and don't need a prescription. Arrived in less than 48 hours.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,181
    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing how nervous everyone seems to be about the state of democracy in the UK when we have an elected Labour government with a current majority of 156 seats and more than 4 years to go until the next election.

    Possibly because on current trajectory this decent, fairly moral quite centrist party is going out of sight down the drain as we speak and as they govern. Fortune is favouring the Trusslookalike Party who have voodoo economics and a potential front bench of spivs and eccentrics. (For the economics, the Economist has a decent analysis this week. Verdict: Reform do voodoo economics; there are reasons why they are not putting out up to date details).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I don't think he had lost his marbles, although Trump clearly has. (But then so has Musk, who is a lot younger.) He was simply far too old and only going to head in one direction.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,235

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    Did she wipe the floor with him? The most memorable moment of the debate was "they are eating the dogs" which didn't win her any votes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,426
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    Settings > navigation > keep north up. To get to your settings, click your profile pic on the right of the search bar.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    I always look up my route on an old fashioned paper road map (I have an AA atlas in every car) before I leave.

    This way I have a "mental" map in my brain of wherever I want to go, so I can do my own assurance on whatever shite Google feeds me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    In 2001 we had an au pair from Nantes, I know, I know, how disgustingly Liberal Elite can one get?

    One of her earliest observations was how bad the litter problem was in Wales compared to France.

    Don't some countries fine MaccieDs and KFC if their litter is all over the verges?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,063
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    They made believing in not just Brexit, but a damaging hard Brexit, a purity test, and everyone not foolish enough has left or was driven away
    Poor quality candidates and MP’s considerably pre-date 2016.
    Certainly so, and in all parties.

    The Tories have a particular issue in having only 120 MPs to choose from, and a substantial share of those being either discredited by being in the last government, on defection watch, mad as a box of frogs, or all of the above.

    The next Tory PM is not on the front bench at present, may not even be in parliament and possibly not yet born.

    Next Tory PM in 2034


    I'm in my early 60s. I have yet to be convinced that I will live long enough to see another Tory PM. A recovery from 2024 is more than a single generation event.
    Nigel Farage? He would argue he is the embodiment of UK Conservatism.

    I am not sure I would agree, but it's not my side of the fence so I don't fully understand what makes one a Conservative.
    If he was on fire I wouldn't piss on him. Being a right wing bigot doesn't make someone a Conservative, at least not any kind of Conservative that I would ever want to be.
    Given that your views on sentencing are some way to the left of Shabana Mahmoud's, I would suggest that very few Conservatives are of the type that you would want to be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    Settings > navigation > keep north up. To get to your settings, click your profile pic on the right of the search bar.
    Thanks, change made.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    I look at Hampshire Tory MPs like Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot who were around until the last 10 years and...

    There's simply no-one who comes close now.
    I suspect that Boris' purge had something to do with it. So, if he were to return the situation at and near the top would be worse, not better.
    It did not help, but the only real first rater among the purged was Kenneth Clarke,
    Gauke was a first rater. Among the others, Letwin and Stewart were both very interesting characters and Grieve was highly competent.
    Had Gauke even reached cabinet level ?

    Was Grieve highly competent ?

    Letwin brought disaster to everything he was involved in.

    Stewart was an interesting character but he also predicted an easy Harris victory.

    Whatever, all of them could have continued to be Conservative MPs if they had been willing to accept a democrat decision and the will of the vast majority of the Conservative party.

    They weren't purged, they were fanatics.
    It reads like you would like the Conservative Party to be a facsimile of Reform. Might as well just throw your hat in with the real deal. I'd be much more comfortable with those people you have just dismissed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,063
    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing how nervous everyone seems to be about the state of democracy in the UK when we have an elected Labour government with a current majority of 156 seats and more than 4 years to go until the next election.

    Possibly because on current trajectory this decent, fairly moral quite centrist party is going out of sight down the drain as we speak and as they govern. Fortune is favouring the Trusslookalike Party who have voodoo economics and a potential front bench of spivs and eccentrics. (For the economics, the Economist has a decent analysis this week. Verdict: Reform do voodoo economics; there are reasons why they are not putting out up to date details).
    Mandy Rice Davies applies.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,122
    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,046
    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,235

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,181

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Awkward realities.

    1 The UK looks poorer because it is poorer. (The UK model probably does a better job of turning money into a good life than the USA one, but that only gets you so far.)

    2 A big part of the UK's problem is having been poorly governed.

    3 In a democracy, poor government is the responsibility of the voters. The choices we have made, and the howling at any attempt to get us to pay more over decades, have landed us in this state.

    4 Part of Faragism is a reaction to that.

    Question I don't know the answer to, but I have bad vibes about:

    5 Is Farage a solution to the problems, or yet another turn of the screw that has got us here?
    it is very hard to see how Farage can be a solution, as his economics is Fantasy Continuity Truss.

    The gap in the market is for a party run by people who look and act like Mark Carney, and face the voting public with the truth about our public finances and communicate it unambiguously, and explain the plan every day for five years while visibly acting on it. As both Tories and Labour are disappearing out of sight in the polls, it might it be worth a try for either of them.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,582
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    You're still in denial.

    The Dems were in denial.

    The Dems were neither moderate nor competent.

    And so the Dems lost.

    And one of the clearest illustrations of the incompetence of the Biden administration is that they didn't even bother taking legal action against Trump until it was too late.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    I always look up my route on an old fashioned paper road map (I have an AA atlas in every car) before I leave.

    This way I have a "mental" map in my brain of wherever I want to go, so I can do my own assurance on whatever shite Google feeds me.
    Agreed. I make sure I have enough geographical knowledge to get me where I want to go, and often override the satnav. In particular it wants me to use 100 miles of motorway to go somewhere 40 miles away by A and B roads. It’s useful for the final mile to a particular address, though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    I always look up my route on an old fashioned paper road map (I have an AA atlas in every car) before I leave.

    This way I have a "mental" map in my brain of wherever I want to go, so I can do my own assurance on whatever shite Google feeds me.
    I used to, but these days I rely on the satnav. However, I got spanked on Thursday for not doing so. I was in Romsey and needed to pick artwork bought at auction in Battle. I had it in mind that Battle was near Brighton. F*** me, when I put the post code in after I left my client in Romsey it registered it was 103 miles away (I was still almost as close to home). Still I got there before 5, but blimey, how do you cope with South coast (A27) traffic?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Will it take 80 days to get there? Edit - only if using google maps.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,582
    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
    Or an e-bike.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,181

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Can't wait for mine to open. A Reform Club would brighten up the high street.

    https://mindtrip.ai/attraction/london-greater/reform-club/at-IpY0U7KG?tm=7e81fd515b128d628d67c2eb63c8b8ca
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
    I wonder whether those responsible think that potholes are a traffic calming measure, not understanding that they are even more dangerous for cyclists.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,812

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    I always look up my route on an old fashioned paper road map (I have an AA atlas in every car) before I leave.

    This way I have a "mental" map in my brain of wherever I want to go, so I can do my own assurance on whatever shite Google feeds me.
    I used to, but these days I rely on the satnav. However, I got spanked on Thursday for not doing so. I was in Romsey and needed to pick artwork bought at auction in Battle. I had it in mind that Battle was near Brighton. F*** me, when I put the post code in after I left my client in Romsey it registered it was 103 miles away (I was still almost as close to home). Still I got there before 5, but blimey, how do you cope with South coast (A27) traffic?
    We don't. We use the train.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    edited 3:32PM

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    My late Great Grandfather, an engineer and pioneer to South Africa and the Belgian Congo was an upstanding member of Llanelli Con Club until his death in 1959. He wouldn't have thrown his lot in with that Reform rum bunch.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,019

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,478

    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?

    To their credit, they are at least still here; and indeed still working here. We hear so much about how the wealthy are taking their money abroad.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,799

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Not sure the Tories will be taking Blackpool any time soon.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,753

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Looks like my kinda place. Welcoming vibe
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    You're still in denial.

    The Dems were in denial.

    The Dems were neither moderate nor competent.

    And so the Dems lost.

    And one of the clearest illustrations of the incompetence of the Biden administration is that they didn't even bother taking legal action against Trump until it was too late.
    You missed with lines 1 to 4, but you hit 5 with a bullseye.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,928
    DougSeal said:

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Looks like my kinda place. Welcoming vibe
    I'd love to see what the £3 roast beef dinner looks like.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    DougSeal said:

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Looks like my kinda place. Welcoming vibe
    Yes, I would imagine it is about as welcoming as the Slaughtered Lamb in an American Werewolf in London.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    I don’t know how Nige will get on if it doesn’t sell real ale.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,088

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    They made believing in not just Brexit, but a damaging hard Brexit, a purity test, and everyone not foolish enough has left or was driven away
    Poor quality candidates and MP’s considerably pre-date 2016.
    Certainly so, and in all parties.

    The Tories have a particular issue in having only 120 MPs to choose from, and a substantial share of those being either discredited by being in the last government, on defection watch, mad as a box of frogs, or all of the above.

    The next Tory PM is not on the front bench at present, may not even be in parliament and possibly not yet born.

    Next Tory PM in 2034


    3,000 majority? She's toast in 29.
    Don't underestimate her. I thought she was toast in 2024.
    She's the new Maggie.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,417
    edited 3:43PM

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
    I wonder whether those responsible think that potholes are a traffic calming measure, not understanding that they are even more dangerous for cyclists.
    Only if you hit them. Typically have more time to avoid, because you're going so much slower. Dooring is a bigger cause of serious injury for cyclists.

    FWIW, motorways and A roads are in decent condition in Scotland (except Skye). It's local roads that are the issue.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 759
    Try doing a Google Maps search for Conservative Clubs in south Wales. There are probably more Conservative clubs than Conservative voters in some areas....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    To be fair to Labour they required police to investigate thefts under £200 and Rishi tightened visa wage requirements and restricted the ability of dependents to come in.

    Miliband certainly won't abandon heat pumps however
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    I don’t know how Nige will get on if it doesn’t sell real ale.
    It is Camra registered so he'll be fine.Oh wait he only drinks real ale to camera. Let's hope they have a bottle of Chateau Neuf du Pape or a nice Hermitage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    AnneJGP said:

    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?

    To their credit, they are at least still here; and indeed still working here. We hear so much about how the wealthy are taking their money abroad.
    Tice spends half his time in Dubai and half the time in Skegness, the former with Reform ex pat donors presumably and the latter with his Reform actual voters

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59987935
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037
    On Trump's record, a video put out today from Legal Eagle comparing objectives identified by Project 2025, to what the Trump regime have done so far:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jyw3NE-SAs

    TLDR:
    313 Total
    101 Done
    64 In Progress
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    HYUFD said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?

    To their credit, they are at least still here; and indeed still working here. We hear so much about how the wealthy are taking their money abroad.
    Tice spends half his time in Dubai and half the time in Skegness, the former with Reform ex pat donors presumably and the latter with his Reform actual voters

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59987935
    Dovetailing Trader Vic's with the Nottinghamshire Miner's Welfare.
  • vikvik Posts: 338
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
    I'm tired of us wasting precious public funds on wasters.

    Still, they vote, and are supremely self-entitled, so I expect it to continue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    The roads are an absolute disgrace. Not just the massive potholes and litter, both disgusting and dangerous, but now the A331 north from Aldershot to Farnborough, and the A31 from Farnham to Guildford have major roadsigns almost totally consumed by foliage growth, and noone bothers to trim it.
    It's only a matter of time before someone recommends that road signs be removed altogether because a lot people just use screens to navigate, forgetting — as usual — that a lot of people still do things the old-fashioned way.
    You still need roadsigns, of course, to corroborate where you actually are.
    On that subject, here is a question. Google Maps has an annoying tendency to point north rather than forwards when I use it for navigation, which I find very confusing if I am heading south (in particular). Is there any setting to change that?
    I always look up my route on an old fashioned paper road map (I have an AA atlas in every car) before I leave.

    This way I have a "mental" map in my brain of wherever I want to go, so I can do my own assurance on whatever shite Google feeds me.
    I used to, but these days I rely on the satnav. However, I got spanked on Thursday for not doing so. I was in Romsey and needed to pick artwork bought at auction in Battle. I had it in mind that Battle was near Brighton. F*** me, when I put the post code in after I left my client in Romsey it registered it was 103 miles away (I was still almost as close to home). Still I got there before 5, but blimey, how do you cope with South coast (A27) traffic?
    We don't. We use the train.
    I hope you use the Kent and East Sussex Light Railway.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,799
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,821
    carnforth said:

    DougSeal said:

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Looks like my kinda place. Welcoming vibe
    I'd love to see what the £3 roast beef dinner looks like.
    That will get changed to gammon now that the ReFukkers are in charge.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    edited 3:59PM

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,821
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
    Tories = Pound Shop ReFukkers
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,417
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
    The trouble with this kind of analysis is that a lot of formerly Labour and Conservative voters have already made the transition to Reform, and voted that way in GE '24.

    That's why people keep on assuming that Labour have lost lots of their voters to Reform since July '24. They haven't. They had already gone.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
    Yeah, the Tories really messed up. One of many reasons they are disappearing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    edited 4:13PM

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    How about the Tories under Honest Bob or Braverman?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,682

    DougSeal said:

    A Reform Club in every town.

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1921165742889648248

    Exc: Reform has now taken over its first former Conservative club

    Senior source: "First we replaced the Tories last week at the local elections, now we are replacing their clubs too"

    The Talbot in Blackpool unveiled its new signage this morning

    Not sure I'll be paying visit any time soon though.

    https://camra.org.uk/pubs/talbot-blackpool-120246
    Looks like my kinda place. Welcoming vibe
    Yes, I would imagine it is about as welcoming as the Slaughtered Lamb in an American Werewolf in London.
    “Welcome to Blackpool Reform Club. You’ll never leave.”
  • vikvik Posts: 338
    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    A further illustration of the important difference between "Hope" and "Change".

    Have a look at the home page for a centre-left Party that just won a landslide election victory:
    https://www.alp.org.au/

    The slogan on the webpage says "Building Australia's Future".

    Now, compare that with the home page for UK Labour:
    https://labour.org.uk/

    The slogan on the webpage says "Plan for change".

    Which one of these two slogans gives more hope to the average voter that things will get better for the country?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
    Yeah, the Tories really messed up. One of many reasons they are disappearing.
    You're far more comfortable criticising the Tories than you are accepting there needs to be any form of meaningful change.

    As @Leon quite rightly pointed out the other day, a sign of your chronic vanity.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,691

    Pagan2 said:

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack

    As a fellow asthmatic, that makes me quite angry. I've had similar mucking about from my GP. They refused to renew my prescription for a Salbutamol inhaler because they decided with no warning or consultation to switch me to a powder inhaler which contains steroids.

    I pointed out I have an eye condition that can be negatively affected by steroids, to which the response was "we'll get back to you". So I ordered a new inhaler from one of those online pharmacies that just ask a few questions and don't need a prescription. Arrived in less than 48 hours.
    As another asthmatic and a (retired) pharmacist I’m pretty sure you could have got one from a conventional pharmacy on the same basis.
    In my community pharmacy days I would certainly have supplied one to you.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    I look at Hampshire Tory MPs like Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot who were around until the last 10 years and...

    There's simply no-one who comes close now.
    I suspect that Boris' purge had something to do with it. So, if he were to return the situation at and near the top would be worse, not better.
    It did not help, but the only real first rater among the purged was Kenneth Clarke,
    Gauke was a first rater. Among the others, Letwin and Stewart were both very interesting characters and Grieve was highly competent.
    Was he? What did he do that you find first rate?
    Consistently the most eloquent and confident media performer of the Cameron years, so much so that he was wheeled out to cover topics that weren’t officially his remit.

    Universally popular amongst the civil service departments and SPAds who worked for him as an attentive, motivating and fair boss who was on top of his brief.

    Probably the politician in the last 2 decades with the deepest technical understanding of the tax system and how tax actually works, impressive enough that I got him on to a podcast to talk international tax last year and he was as on top of the details as many of my colleagues.

    Similar diligence in his role in justice that the current government decided to bring him in to help on justice policy.

    A thoroughly nice man into the bargain.
    So nothing then.

    And that isn't me being flippantly dismissive - what you've listed here doesn't contain a single achievement.

    Indeed taken as a whole, your summary paints a picture of someone being able, but for whatever reason, more interested in being a political insider than actually improving anyone's lot.

    As for his 'help on justice policy' for
    Starmer, that was a gimmick to make the Tory Party look ridiculous, and that Gauke
    was willing to participate in such a gimmick simply underlines why the party is better off without him.
    Gauke was a first rate junior minister/ minister of state. But not Cabinet material.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
    Yeah, the Tories really messed up. One of many reasons they are disappearing.
    Sunak at least raised the visa wage requirement and ended the right of dependents to come in and Boris at least ended EU free movement. Farage just wants to go even further with mass deportations and the Royal Navy being ordered to stop the boats crossing the Channel
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586
    vik said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    A further illustration of the important difference between "Hope" and "Change".

    Have a look at the home page for a centre-left Party that just won a landslide election victory:
    https://www.alp.org.au/

    The slogan on the webpage says "Building Australia's Future".

    Now, compare that with the home page for UK Labour:
    https://labour.org.uk/

    The slogan on the webpage says "Plan for change".

    Which one of these two slogans gives more hope to the average voter that things will get better for the country?
    After Starmer takes an early bath let us hope his replacement provides a more positive prospectus.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,586

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    I look at Hampshire Tory MPs like Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot who were around until the last 10 years and...

    There's simply no-one who comes close now.
    I suspect that Boris' purge had something to do with it. So, if he were to return the situation at and near the top would be worse, not better.
    It did not help, but the only real first rater among the purged was Kenneth Clarke,
    Gauke was a first rater. Among the others, Letwin and Stewart were both very interesting characters and Grieve was highly competent.
    Was he? What did he do that you find first rate?
    Consistently the most eloquent and confident media performer of the Cameron years, so much so that he was wheeled out to cover topics that weren’t officially his remit.

    Universally popular amongst the civil service departments and SPAds who worked for him as an attentive, motivating and fair boss who was on top of his brief.

    Probably the politician in the last 2 decades with the deepest technical understanding of the tax system and how tax actually works, impressive enough that I got him on to a podcast to talk international tax last year and he was as on top of the details as many of my colleagues.

    Similar diligence in his role in justice that the current government decided to bring him in to help on justice policy.

    A thoroughly nice man into the bargain.
    So nothing then.

    And that isn't me being flippantly dismissive - what you've listed here doesn't contain a single achievement.

    Indeed taken as a whole, your summary paints a picture of someone being able, but for whatever reason, more interested in being a political insider than actually improving anyone's lot.

    As for his 'help on justice policy' for
    Starmer, that was a gimmick to make the Tory Party look ridiculous, and that Gauke
    was willing to participate in such a gimmick simply underlines why the party is better off without him.
    Gauke was a first rate junior minister/ minister of state. But not Cabinet material.
    And Johnson was?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,024
    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,410
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
    The trouble with this kind of analysis is that a lot of formerly Labour and Conservative voters have already made the transition to Reform, and voted that way in GE '24.

    That's why people keep on assuming that Labour have lost lots of their voters to Reform since July '24. They haven't. They had already gone.
    12% of 2024 Labour voters have now gone Reform according to Yougov
    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250506_w.pdf
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,691

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    I thought that when I read the story. However that didn’t excuse the heavy-handed police raid.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    I thought that when I read the story. However that didn’t excuse the heavy-handed police raid.
    Yes, it was an open meeting. They could just have walked in.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,668
    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.
Sign In or Register to comment.