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Recent history suggests Badenoch will not make it to the general election – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533
    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    Real wages growing doesn't seem to be happening for anyone I know that is not on minimum wage, immigration dropping is not due to anything labour has done, nhs waiting list drops are to be honest so tiny its irrelevant
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,933
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
    The trouble with this kind of analysis is that a lot of formerly Labour and Conservative voters have already made the transition to Reform, and voted that way in GE '24.

    That's why people keep on assuming that Labour have lost lots of their voters to Reform since July '24. They haven't. They had already gone.
    12% of 2024 Labour voters have now gone Reform according to Yougov
    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250506_w.pdf
    :innocent:


  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
    Yeah, the Tories really messed up. One of many reasons they are disappearing.
    You're far more comfortable criticising the Tories than you are accepting there needs to be any form of meaningful change.

    As @Leon quite rightly pointed out the other day, a sign of your chronic vanity.
    On the contrary, I have suggested major changes to asylum policy, including leaving the international conventions. You even gave me a like for it!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I suspect we’re seeing the more warm and cuddly version of Reform at the moment ! In power they’d head down the Trump route.

    We can only work with the system we have and that means people need to think of the greater good or least worst option .

    Tactical voting might be the only way to stop the Trumpification of the country .

    Alternatively the establishment might do something to bring immigration and shoplifting under control.

    And also stop the heat pump fanaticism.
    Either immigration is brought tightly under control, or the whole status quo blows up. Entirely.

    The Liberal elite really need to understand this before it's too late.
    Yeah, the Tories really messed up. One of many reasons they are disappearing.
    You're far more comfortable criticising the Tories than you are accepting there needs to be any form of meaningful change.

    As @Leon quite rightly pointed out the other day, a sign of your chronic vanity.
    On the contrary, I have suggested major changes to asylum policy, including leaving the international conventions. You even gave me a like for it!
    OK, fair enough if you did.

    My bad.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,297
    Off topic, but someone here may have a clue: Who ordered the terrorist attack in Kashmir that started the latest conflict between India and Pakistan? (I can think of many possibilities, but have seen no evidence for any of them.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Do the Tories actually want to survive?
    Or would they be happy under PM Farage?
    If they do they need to start going for him instead of the government.

    Most Tories would prefer PM Farage to PM Starmer and those that wouldn't would vote LD mostly over Labour so of course they are still going to attack the Labour government more than Reform.

    Beyond that the Tories best hope of survival is either bringing Boris back who is the only Tory who could still clearly beat Farage and Starmer or else PR where even 15-20% would still elect 100-130 Tory MPs but elect fewer than 50 Tory MPs under FPTP
    Sorry mate, you are talking bollocks.

    I wouldn't go near the Tories under Farage - but I wouldn't vote LibDem either.

    This is a very commonly held view in my constituency.
    Well the facts don't lie.

    50% of current Tory voters would vote for Reform over Labour if they were the top 2 parties in their seat and just 10% Labour.

    20% of current Tory voters would vote LD if Reform and the LDs were the top 2 parties in their seat and 42% Reform.

    (22% of Labour voters would vote Tory and 6% Reform if Reform and the Tories were the top 2 parties in their seat, 33% of LDs would vote Tory and 8% Reform if the same applied in their seat)
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51713-is-tactical-voting-more-of-a-threat-or-opportunity-for-reform-uk
    The trouble with this kind of analysis is that a lot of formerly Labour and Conservative voters have already made the transition to Reform, and voted that way in GE '24.

    That's why people keep on assuming that Labour have lost lots of their voters to Reform since July '24. They haven't. They had already gone.
    12% of 2024 Labour voters have now gone Reform according to Yougov
    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250506_w.pdf
    :innocent:


    At present, I suspect 30-35% of the electorate may go full Reform.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
    The employers always put there side of the case, including national finances to the Independent pay review body to consider.

    The autumn statement included a provision to match inflation with a 2.8% increase in staff costs, so I expect the increase to be around that. It has been leaked that the nurses will get a 3%offer.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Off topic, but someone here may have a clue: Who ordered the terrorist attack in Kashmir that started the latest conflict between India and Pakistan? (I can think of many possibilities, but have seen no evidence for any of them.)

    I confess was me and the greater cornish empire...we need countries fighting each other so it makes sense for them to bow to the pax kernow
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
    One of the repercussions is not having a source for repeat prescriptions!

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,479
    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    Even if that is all true, the Internet talk will be of wages not being high enough, too many immigrants coming in, interest rates too high, and still having to wait for a doctor.

    There are many aspects to this. People need to understand that no government can fix things in a year, and that some noisy people will always find reason to complain, often from their boltholes abroad. But most of all, this government needs to try to get control of the messaging. Starmer himself is terrible at this: he could make a cure for cancer sound uninteresting.

    It's like they're not even trying.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,041
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
    People deserve to be paid properly regardless. Why should employees bear the brunt of government decisions to allocate less money for an area than the work being done requires?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
    One of the repercussions is not having a source for repeat prescriptions!

    This was in a time I was registered....still couldn't get a repeat prescription for an asthma inhaler. I had to wait till they could see me. I could sort of understand if it was something I could sell as a high on the local street but it was an arsehole boxticking doctor.

    Now despite not being registered with a doctor I just order on line and just lie when they ask about if I have had a lung function test and it costs me about 2£ more than an nhs prescription
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
    People deserve to be paid properly regardless. Why should employees bear the brunt of government decisions to allocate less money for an area than the work being done requires?
    That's life, mate.

    I'll let something slip: it's not fair.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,533
    edited 4:48PM
    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
    People deserve to be paid properly regardless. Why should employees bear the brunt of government decisions to allocate less money for an area than the work being done requires?
    Because the NHS is a blackhole for public taxes and we pay too much for it already? Doctors in the uk aren't exactly earning little when compared to their european counterparts
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,426
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    It's also not clear if any of those are actually the results of Starmer's actions.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    I look at Hampshire Tory MPs like Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot who were around until the last 10 years and...

    There's simply no-one who comes close now.
    I suspect that Boris' purge had something to do with it. So, if he were to return the situation at and near the top would be worse, not better.
    It did not help, but the only real first rater among the purged was Kenneth Clarke,
    Gauke was a first rater. Among the others, Letwin and Stewart were both very interesting characters and Grieve was highly competent.
    Was he? What did he do that you find first rate?
    Consistently the most eloquent and confident media performer of the Cameron years, so much so that he was wheeled out to cover topics that weren’t officially his remit.

    Universally popular amongst the civil service departments and SPAds who worked for him as an attentive, motivating and fair boss who was on top of his brief.

    Probably the politician in the last 2 decades with the deepest technical understanding of the tax system and how tax actually works, impressive enough that I got him on to a podcast to talk international tax last year and he was as on top of the details as many of my colleagues.

    Similar diligence in his role in justice that the current government decided to bring him in to help on justice policy.

    A thoroughly nice man into the bargain.
    So nothing then.

    And that isn't me being flippantly dismissive - what you've listed here doesn't contain a single achievement.

    Indeed taken as a whole, your summary paints a picture of someone being able, but for whatever reason, more interested in being a political insider than actually improving anyone's lot.

    As for his 'help on justice policy' for
    Starmer, that was a gimmick to make the Tory Party look ridiculous, and that Gauke
    was willing to participate in such a gimmick simply underlines why the party is better off without him.

    Gauke was a first rate junior minister/ minister of state. But not Cabinet material.
    And Johnson was?
    A passable mayor of London
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,235
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,120

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Did you miss his promise to drone fly tippers?

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1917475965531210099

    This is a message to the fly-tippers blighting our towns and villages:

    For too long, your actions have gone unpunished. That ends now.

    We'll use drones and new tech to identify your vehicle. Then we'll crush it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,691
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
    It’s an average.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Did you miss his promise to drone fly tippers?

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1917475965531210099

    This is a message to the fly-tippers blighting our towns and villages:

    For too long, your actions have gone unpunished. That ends now.

    We'll use drones and new tech to identify your vehicle. Then we'll crush it.
    Wake me up when the first car is crushed
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 126

    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?

    Not even vaguely amusing to think of all the rich luv IRS in the Labour party who pretend to be w/c - who can forget Mandy in Hartlepool thinking mushy peas were guacamole 🥑!😂😂😂
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
    It’s an average.
    GP's are largely a waste of space frankly, I find I have to google my symptoms to correct them when they misdiagnose mostly. So far when I was with a gp I am about 8 of 10 for that. Mostly I get there is nothing wrong with you go away take some aspirin then you say have you considered this they check and go ah yes. Now nothing life threatening so far but I trust a gp diagnosis less than I trust elon musk to become left wing
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,593
    Picking up on the earlier topic, I admire Google maps massively, despite having always been someone with a very strong mental map that'll generally survive London trips and the habit of overlaying my own preferences on known journeys if routes look similar in arrival time.

    The number of times I arrive within 1-2 minutes of the predicted time at outset following Google (my speed having reduced from my younger days) is uncanny, usually only approaching city centres as rush hour develops busts that and the is the 'set arrival time' option which is every good for how long to allow / when to set off.

    When my car's Sat Nav has let me down (saying the M25 was iffy and advising me onto the North Circular too late on Challenge Cup final day, then compounding it with Barnes Bridge) Google got me out of it, and it beats my old Garmin with traffic function to pulp.

    My main gripe would be it not giving the alternative route early or often enough, particularly for motorway junctions where you need to see your choices a mile in advance without pinching in/recentering (M11, 4 mins slower than M1? - yeah, my probabilistic option is still going to be M11 thanks very much). Especially when it hasn't re-routed and the alternative shows as 15 mins faster. But that's a rare dummy.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,975
    edited 5:13PM
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Did you miss his promise to drone fly tippers?

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1917475965531210099

    This is a message to the fly-tippers blighting our towns and villages:

    For too long, your actions have gone unpunished. That ends now.

    We'll use drones and new tech to identify your vehicle. Then we'll crush it.
    Wake me up when the first car is crushed
    I can point very easily at the people who do 80% of the fly tipping round here.

    The police won't go anywhere near without a "community liaison officer".
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Did you miss his promise to drone fly tippers?

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1917475965531210099

    This is a message to the fly-tippers blighting our towns and villages:

    For too long, your actions have gone unpunished. That ends now.

    We'll use drones and new tech to identify your vehicle. Then we'll crush it.
    Wake me up when the first car is crushed
    I can point very easily at who does 80% of the fly tipping round here.

    The police won't go anywhere near without a "community liaison officer".
    Well still wake me up when the first car is crushed
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,063
    ...
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    They made believing in not just Brexit, but a damaging hard Brexit, a purity test, and everyone not foolish enough has left or was driven away
    Poor quality candidates and MP’s considerably pre-date 2016.
    Certainly so, and in all parties.

    The Tories have a particular issue in having only 120 MPs to choose from, and a substantial share of those being either discredited by being in the last government, on defection watch, mad as a box of frogs, or all of the above.

    The next Tory PM is not on the front bench at present, may not even be in parliament and possibly not yet born.

    Next Tory PM in 2034


    I'm in my early 60s. I have yet to be convinced that I will live long enough to see another Tory PM. A recovery from 2024 is more than a single generation event.
    Nigel Farage? He would argue he is the embodiment of UK Conservatism.

    I am not sure I would agree, but it's not my side of the fence so I don't fully understand what makes one a Conservative.
    If he was on fire I wouldn't piss on him. Being a right wing bigot doesn't make someone a Conservative, at least not any kind of Conservative that I would ever want to be.
    Given that your views on sentencing are some way to the left of Shabana Mahmoud's, I would suggest that very few Conservatives are of the type that you would want to be.
    LOL. Last week 2 men I had prosecuted for being concerned in the supply got 5 years each. Another man, who had had an abusive relationship with his partner over several years and sexually assaulted her sister got 10 years.

    I don't select the sentences, that is a matter for the judge, but I have no problem with any of these sentences. What I would have a problem with is an increased probability that anyone found guilty would go to prison because they are black. You, apparently, don't.
    I would be gravely concerned if, all other things being equal, there was an increased probability of a prison sentence for black, or any other racial or religious groups - that would be a wholly unacceptable perversion of the principle of justice before the law.

    But we both know that that is not what was happening, and if it were, the answer to it would not be to impose a blanket requirement for a pre-sentencing report for every member of a racial or religious minority.

    The only element of racial and religious prejudice at work here was the one due to be enshrined within these guidelines, as you admitted when you shared that you were 'a bit queasy' about them because 'justice before the law' n'everything.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,048
    scampi25 said:

    It's vaguely amusing to read that Reform are the party of hard-pressed, downtrodden working people, led as they are by Farage (very rich) and Tice and Yusuf (both spectacularly rich).
    Will they have policies that lead to the trickling-down of some of their vast wealth to ordinary working people, I wonder?

    Not even vaguely amusing to think of all the rich luv IRS in the Labour party who pretend to be w/c - who can forget Mandy in Hartlepool thinking mushy peas were guacamole 🥑!😂😂😂
    Urban Myth?
    "the mix-up was originally made by an American student during a 1986 by-election, and the story was later humorously attached to him after a joke from Neil Kinnock at his leaving party, where Kinnock presented him with fish, chips, and mushy peas, saying "Enjoy the guacamole"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    On the subject of GP's

    The reason I am so negative apart from the issue I had when a gp would rather check box something than give me needed medication is as follows

    Pretty much everyone I know has a story about themselves or a relative where a gp has said nothing to be concerned about take some aspirin/paracetomal and rest up

    Which later turned up to be something absolutely serious that should have been referred and people have died or had more serious health issues going forward.

    Most people I know therefore consider gp's as more of a gate guardian with an intention to keep you out of primary care even if you need it than a gatekeeper keeping out only those that don't need it,
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    I thought that when I read the story. However that didn’t excuse the heavy-handed police raid.
    It was the leadership group of Youth Demand. They had simply rented a room from the Quakers - this wasn’t a heavy handed raid on the equivalent of a church despite the slanted positioning.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    I thought that when I read the story. However that didn’t excuse the heavy-handed police raid.
    It was the leadership group of Youth Demand. They had simply rented a room from the Quakers - this wasn’t a heavy handed raid on the equivalent of a church despite the slanted positioning.
    Why should churches be excused from heavy handed raids, often they can be the promoters of the violence planned?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,975
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Did you miss his promise to drone fly tippers?

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1917475965531210099

    This is a message to the fly-tippers blighting our towns and villages:

    For too long, your actions have gone unpunished. That ends now.

    We'll use drones and new tech to identify your vehicle. Then we'll crush it.
    Wake me up when the first car is crushed
    I can point very easily at who does 80% of the fly tipping round here.

    The police won't go anywhere near without a "community liaison officer".
    Well still wake me up when the first car is crushed
    Not happening.

    It is usually transit tipper tucks with no signs.

    One tactic is to raise the tipper when driving and just dump stuff in the middle of the road. I have seen this on CCTV.

    Nothing was done, obviously.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,482
    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    Imagine if Keir Starmer and his government could actually communicate effectively with the public.....nah, nor can I.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,173
    edited 5:29PM

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I couldn't go out on the streets and knock-up for the Conservatives today because what I thought they stood for - competent government, fiscal balance, business, strong defence, effective on crime and justice, controlled borders, low taxes and a country built on strong families and communities - doesn't appear to be the case.

    Instead they became a byword for self-indulgence, venality and incompetence and seemed to be heavily aroused by infighting.

    So why would I?

    The Conservatives’ pool of talent ran out, at some point in the early years of this century, and since then, they’ve been running on fumes.
    I look at Hampshire Tory MPs like Sir George Young and James Arbuthnot who were around until the last 10 years and...

    There's simply no-one who comes close now.
    I suspect that Boris' purge had something to do with it. So, if he were to return the situation at and near the top would be worse, not better.
    It did not help, but the only real first rater among the purged was Kenneth Clarke,
    Gauke was a first rater. Among the others, Letwin and Stewart were both very interesting characters and Grieve was highly competent.
    Was he? What did he do that you find first rate?
    Consistently the most eloquent and confident media performer of the Cameron years, so much so that he was wheeled out to cover topics that weren’t officially his remit.

    Universally popular amongst the civil service departments and SPAds who worked for him as an attentive, motivating and fair boss who was on top of his brief.

    Probably the politician in the last 2 decades with the deepest technical understanding of the tax system and how tax actually works, impressive enough that I got him on to a podcast to talk international tax last year and he was as on top of the details as many of my colleagues.

    Similar diligence in his role in justice that the current government decided to bring him in to help on justice policy.

    A thoroughly nice man into the bargain.
    So nothing then.

    And that isn't me being flippantly dismissive - what you've listed here doesn't contain a single achievement.

    Indeed taken as a whole, your summary paints a picture of someone being able, but for whatever reason, more interested in being a political insider than actually improving anyone's lot.

    As for his 'help on justice policy' for Starmer, that was a gimmick to make the Tory Party look ridiculous, and that Gauke was willing to participate in such a gimmick simply underlines why the party is better off without him.
    Almost immediately after the post you were replying to and before your dismissive wave of the hands above, I added another, with what to me included some pretty important things that most in the fiscal world see as big achievements. But nobody seems to have replied to that.

    I do think ideology has got the better of too many conservative or erstwhile conservative posters in their view of people they see as traitors. It’s the equivalent of the momentumites claiming Blair never achieved anything for the poor.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,307
    After reaching Quillan yesterday I decided to scale back my walking on this holiday. I believe the ballaching boomers here yesterday, moaning about their aches and pains may be at least partly to blame

    The past few days I've been getting a pain just above my ankle, at the front of my leg. I think I've overdone the distances a few times, even though I've been about ten percent slower than last year

    So I've decided to walk just to Perpignan, and have a more normal holiday after; and to split the walk to Perpignan to three days, rather than the two I'd sort of planned

    Today, just after leaving Quillan - when my leg had already started hurting - I had to enter the forbidden tunnel




    There was a sign just inside that said ACCES INTERDIT - DANGER

    I had to ignore it, or add about four miles to my journey, so I ventured in.. it wasn’t too bad; there were bats, lots of long dark bits, and the fear that the other end might be closed, but I made it through sans danger

    I’ve made it to a really beautiful hotel. The owners converted it from an abandoned winery

    https://www.booking.com/Share-UOYwRIo

    Lucie, one of the owners, has brought me cream and pills for my pains. She's also served me up two bottles of beer from her favourite local brewery, and she's cooking me dinner
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    And the phasing out of mushy peas
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    edited 5:30PM

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    We should have the extension of slavery to anyone without a knighthood.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    We should have the extension of slavery to anyone without a knighthood.
    How about anyone with a knighthood or better can become an indentured slave to the first person that can put a collar on them....sounds better to me
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,797

    After reaching Quillan yesterday I decided to scale back my walking on this holiday. I believe the ballaching boomers here yesterday, moaning about their aches and pains may be at least partly to blame

    The past few days I've been getting a pain just above my ankle, at the front of my leg. I think I've overdone the distances a few times, even though I've been about ten percent slower than last year

    So I've decided to walk just to Perpignan, and have a more normal holiday after; and to split the walk to Perpignan to three days, rather than the two I'd sort of planned

    Today, just after leaving Quillan - when my leg had already started hurting - I had to enter the forbidden tunnel




    There was a sign just inside that said ACCES INTERDIT - DANGER

    I had to ignore it, or add about four miles to my journey, so I ventured in.. it wasn’t too bad; there were bats, lots of long dark bits, and the fear that the other end might be closed, but I made it through sans danger

    I’ve made it to a really beautiful hotel. The owners converted it from an abandoned winery

    https://www.booking.com/Share-UOYwRIo

    Lucie, one of the owners, has brought me cream and pills for my pains. She's also served me up two bottles of beer from her favourite local brewery, and she's cooking me dinner

    Enjoy your cocktail in a romantic setting!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,492

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon from Oxfordshire.

    The verges along the M40 yesterday were strewn with litter, and the road itself feels pinched and patchy. Road infrastructure is much better in New York State. The cars, too, were notably less modern. This is a poorer country.

    But oh the English spring and the hawthorn hedges abloom, while the quality of product at the Sainsbury’s I just went to would be simply incomprehensible to the American mind.

    Or maybe people aren't obsessed with having a new car in the same way. Both my parents were driving 20 year old cars until recently because it wasn't necessary to change them. Litter is a problem though.
    IMO the litter problem is mainly about self-respect, and not having any.

    The symptom is no respect for others, but underlying that is no respect for self.
    Quite right. We have a discombobulated society.

    That's what policy needs to address.
    Maybe, but it’s hard to understand how America manages to have such clean highways.

    I don’t believe Americans or New Yorkers are more combobulated; far from it.
    Clean, but their bridges fall over and shit.

    I think our heavily process state works in our favour when it comes to health and safety, but not for getting absolutely anything done.
    My brother in Christ, the American process state is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.

    My own theory is simply that Americans like highways, and comptrollers don’t mind spending money on them, and Americans anyway are more inclined to spend on “show”.

    A strain in British culture - a currently dominant one - regards expenditure on motorways as wicked when the money could be spent on tinned spam and garibaldis for somebody on a mobility scooter.
    iirc American highways were built using the same rationale as 1930s German autobahns – they are straight and wide so tanks and aircraft can use them.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190
    Pagan2 said:

    On the subject of GP's

    The reason I am so negative apart from the issue I had when a gp would rather check box something than give me needed medication is as follows

    Pretty much everyone I know has a story about themselves or a relative where a gp has said nothing to be concerned about take some aspirin/paracetomal and rest up

    Which later turned up to be something absolutely serious that should have been referred and people have died or had more serious health issues going forward.

    Most people I know therefore consider gp's as more of a gate guardian with an intention to keep you out of primary care even if you need it than a gatekeeper keeping out only those that don't need it,

    That’s sad, I’ve been very lucky in having a great personal GP who I can usually see within a couple of days max but can always get a same day if I am happy to see one of the other GPs in the practice.

    Each of them also seems to have certain specialties - my GP is dermatology for some reason which is great as I will go in and get him to check any weird marks when I panic about skin cancer - so if you tell the receptionist when you book they often suggest one of the other docs.

    I guess our system where you pay £50 for an appointment (discounted or free if you are below a certain income and additionally topped up by the gov) means that being a GP is an attractive proposition.

    Relatives in the UK who moved there do find it quite the shock how difficult it is to get appointments.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably dont
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,668
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Bit bleak that for me. I certainly wouldn't say no to a bit more showmanship/bite from Labour.
    I'm also hopeful that media attention on the US shitshow will highlight a nice contrast.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    We should have the extension of slavery to anyone without a knighthood.
    How about anyone with a knighthood or better can become an indentured slave to the first person that can put a collar on them....sounds better to me
    That’s not a sound policy for a happier Britain.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,236
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably
    dont
    The target audience is the general public - is there something that doesn’t look right. If so report it

    I recall a car wash and a nail shop as examples, and a girl in a taxi but I am sure there are others
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    We should have the extension of slavery to anyone without a knighthood.
    How about anyone with a knighthood or better can become an indentured slave to the first person that can put a collar on them....sounds better to me
    That’s not a sound policy for a happier Britain.
    Well not convinced I suspect a lot of those not ennobled would love it
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably
    dont
    The target audience is the general public - is there something that doesn’t look right. If so report it

    I recall a car wash and a nail shop as examples, and a girl in a taxi but I am sure there are others
    Did you report them all? Probably not most people keep their heads down and say none of my business
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,884
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably
    dont
    The target audience is the general public - is there something that doesn’t look right. If so report it

    I recall a car wash and a nail shop as examples, and a girl in a taxi but I am sure there are others
    Did you report them all? Probably not most people keep their heads down and say none of my business
    Those were the adverts. I don’t have a car and don’t get my nails done.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,743
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,535

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    And now Ed Bloody Milliband wants to put a solar farm on it.

    Colin says: SAVE OUR DUNNY.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably
    dont
    The target audience is the general public - is there something that doesn’t look right. If so report it

    I recall a car wash and a nail shop as examples, and a girl in a taxi but I am sure there are others
    Did you report them all? Probably not most people keep their heads down and say none of my business
    Those were the adverts. I don’t have a car and don’t get my nails done.

    So there were some adverts aimed at a general public, the people who normally pay little attention to whats around them and choose often to ignore whats around them if they do notice. Your evidence this resulted in a 33% uptick of reports in one year is what? You can't just say as evidence well adverts happened. I have seen many tampon adverts for example probably some of them roger's still never gone to a supermarket and thought you know I really need to buy some tampons
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,535

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,841
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    To be fair there has been a massive advertising campaign so an increase in reporting doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in incidence
    That assumes that people holding slaves allow them to view advertising, my suspicion is they probably
    dont
    The target audience is the general public - is there something that doesn’t look right. If so report it

    I recall a car wash and a nail shop as examples, and a girl in a taxi but I am sure there are others
    Did you report them all? Probably not most people keep their heads down and say none of my business
    Those were the adverts. I don’t have a car and don’t get my nails done.

    So there were some adverts aimed at a general public, the people who normally pay little attention to whats around them and choose often to ignore whats around them if they do notice. Your evidence this resulted in a 33% uptick of reports in one year is what? You can't just say as evidence well adverts happened. I have seen many tampon adverts for example probably some of them roger's still never gone to a supermarket and thought you know I really need to buy some tampons
    if adverts didn't work, they wouldn't be so ubiquitous
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    Apart from starmer doesn't speak latin he is the son of a toolmaker dont you know
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,037
    @Pagan2

    I just emailed you re: that Kirklees piece we mentioned yesterday evening.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    Apart from starmer doesn't speak latin he is the son of a toolmaker dont you know
    No excuse, Vulcan, famous Roman toolmaker, had seven sons: Philammon, Cecrops, Erichthonius, Corynetes, Cercyon, Philottus, and Spinther. All spoke Latin and none of them went to public school.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    MattW said:

    @Pagan2

    I just emailed you re: that Kirklees piece we mentioned yesterday evening.

    Hasn't turned up in my dm's yet will take a look when it does
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    boulay said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    Apart from starmer doesn't speak latin he is the son of a toolmaker dont you know
    No excuse, Vulcan, famous Roman toolmaker, had seven sons: Philammon, Cecrops, Erichthonius, Corynetes, Cercyon, Philottus, and Spinther. All spoke Latin and none of them went to public school.
    Kiers father may have well worked in the factory as a toolmaker he also owned it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    eggsactly what I though which is why I didn't shell out on thinking of a longer response
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    eggsactly what I though which is why I didn't shell out on thinking of a longer response
    Quite white.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,173
    edited 6:21PM
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    Eggsellent news, their Henkels and Flokkers will be no match for our warbirds.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,173
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    You’re too chicken
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,190
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    You’re too chicken
    I was worried he was being a bit cocky.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,958

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    So brilliant at Latin he nearly got a first.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    You’re too chicken
    I am poaching that response
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,722

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    There's an interesting question about when discussion becomes conspiracy. For "political" acts, I think the government should tend to err on the side of inaction, but then if people actually commit public order offences, should actually prosecute and jail.

    Because I don't like the idea of criminalizing kids sitting around plotting to overthrow capitalism. But I do want to punish them appropriately when they massively inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people and bring economic activity to a halt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,719
    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    You’re too chicken
    I am poaching that response
    Fried rich eggs are better.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,722
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    In "not everything is shite" news, phoned 111 at 6pm last night, GP phoned me at 8pm, prescription ready at 9.30am this morning, follow up GP appointment Monday at 3pm.

    10/10. I did mention it was affecting my marathon training which seemed to energise the process.

    Good grief, that's a pleasant surprise.

    I can't get an appointment with my GP at all. Phone up and they're always fully booked, get told to do the 8am lottery. A few days of that gets a spot on the day's triage list, the guardian of which always concludes my issues are not serious enough to require being seen that day, so no appointment.
    My last visit to A&E was definitively called by my gp at the time back in 2009. When I got to a&e the receptionist didn't even take my details she just got me straight in to treatment as apparently I was turning blue as couldn't breathe. The taxi driver that got me there more or less carried me in.

    Why? I have asthma, my coat was stolen with my inhaler in. My gp said they couldn't issue a prescription as I was due a lung function test before they would issue a new prescription....heres a date you can come in which was 18 days away. 2 days later had a bad attack
    On a scale of clinical need, breathing rates quite high.
    I wonder though however how much that visit to a&e cost the national health vs how much it would have cost the gp to say....there will be a repeat prescription at reception but you need to attend this consultation in 3 weeks for a lung function test.....would have absolutely removed the a&e visit
    Yes, but when you told this tale before you did concede that you weren't registered with a local GP, and hadn't attended for previous reviews.
    Not true,,,,I am no longer registered with a local gp as I moved 3 years back....in 2009 I was registered with a gp and had attended them.

    I am not registered now because frankly they make it almost impossible to register
    Also and its you doctors fault on this...if I register with a gp they get paid for having me on their books but seem to have no actual repercussions if you never bother
    GPs are paid in a completely different way to hospital doctors.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,722

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    vik said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    isam said:

    Farage setting out his agenda… and nicking ‘we are the party of working people’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14696587/NIGEL-FARAGE-victory-Reform-era-government-Net-Zero-immigration.html

    The party of working people who voted against more workers rights . Whose last manifesto meant huge cuts to public services . Reform are a one trick pony .
    We've already seen Reform present different policies to different sets of voters. And remember a lot of people don't pay much attention to the news - it's very plausible that Reform can target voters with something that looks good to working class workers because the consequences of the full manifesto aren't made clear to people.

    See as a prime example Trump last year...
    The danger is it turns Trump like where Reform inclined voters start calling any criticisms fake news and become so delusional that Farage could threaten to cull the old and they still vote for him.
    Fanatics will do as they will.

    But a party needs more than fanatics to win, it also needs those who want some competence and moderation.

    So it needs to display some competence and moderation, or at least more of it than the alternative parties do.
    Trump waves hello.
    Look at Trump's electoral record.

    Its not impressive is it.

    If the Dems had run a competent and moderate candidate last year they would have won.

    Instead the stupid party offered Senile Joe, useless Harris and a platform of unrestricted immigration and unlimited wokery.
    THey did run such a candidate, and they offered no such programme. Merely because you don't like HArris and Biden is no reason to invent stuff about them.

    Trump claims otherwise but Trump is clearly extremely senile, as well as a known forger and liar.

    The fact is he's won twice by acting in a way you say is impossible. That's a pretty shocking indictment of the US electoral system (and the courts, who should have locked the fat old traitor up) but he still won without anyone competent around him.
    Yep, the truth is that Biden was a very successful President who ran a very competent administration through difficult times. Sadly, he lost his marbles. Harris was a more than capable replacement, a good speaker with an excellent record of public service. She wiped the floor with Trump in their only debate. He ran away from a rematch.

    And Trump still won.

    It is frankly fantasy that a generic Democrat would somehow have won. To pretend that is the case simply fails to recognise the problems that democracy has in the age of social media (otherwise known as wall to wall lies). It fails to recognise the same gaps between working class people and middle class professionals that bedevil Labour. It fails to acknowledge that millions of Americans do not think that the system works for them and are willing to roll the dice. It pretends that this is a simple problem. It isn't.
    I think the problem Starmer's Labour is illustrated by the widely mocked photo from the front of Labour's manifesto showing a black-and-white image of a glum looking Starmer with the word "Change" in red letters.

    They were clearly trying to copy the "Hope and Change" slogan from Obama's campaign, but they totally forget about the "Hope" part from "Hope and Change".

    Starmer is just unable to sell the public a hopeful vision of the country's future. He talks about going "further and faster", but doesn't vividly explain how things will get better for the country at the end of this journey where he's going further & faster.

    Compare that with Farage's slogan that "Reform will fix it", which at least sells hope to the country that things will get better once Reform is in charge.

    Biden & Harris suffered from the same problem as Starmer. Harris was unable to sell a positive vision for how the country would improve once she was President. She was talking about preserving institutions & had a laundry list of relatively small changes that she wanted to see implemented, such as codifying Roe v Wade in federal legislation, but presented no vision of how things would get better for the average American. Trump, in contrast, was able to sell a vision, for example, about how grocery prices would come down, starting from "Day 1".
    How do we distinguish "selling a vision" from lying?
    Why is lying merely about vision....we were told in july they had sorted the doctors strikes....less than a year later doctors are balloting on strike action over pay
    Sure, it's an annual negotiation, and the employers are still refusing to make any offer at all for the financial year that started 6 weeks ago. The ballot is to encourage management to the negotiating table.
    So you doctors want more pay at the same time the nhs is warning of savage cuts due to budget
    People deserve to be paid properly regardless. Why should employees bear the brunt of government decisions to allocate less money for an area than the work being done requires?
    Sure: but if there isn't the money, there isn't the money.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    CatMan said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    He's quoting Blackadder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHxglOo6Cs
    Yes I did realise that just no idea what it had to do with the price of square eggs
    Just making a little yolk.
    You risk expulsion. This forum is whites only from 7pm onwards.
    Hen rich Himmler approves this message.
    I'll scramble a squadron to get rid of him.
    You’re too chicken
    I am poaching that response
    Fried rich eggs are better.
    I will give you benedict of the doubt
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,722
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Is modern day slavery rising? Genuine question.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    As predicted, the police are enjoying the "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" law. The difficulty here is not only could it prevent most protests from happening, but even discussion of one can lead to an arrest.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/10/police-raid-london-quaker-meeting-house-very-worrying

    This important bit of context was buried on the middle of the article:

    Youth Demand, which includes young veterans of the Just Stop Oil movement, had posted online it was planning to “shut down London” on a daily basis in April.
    There's an interesting question about when discussion becomes conspiracy. For "political" acts, I think the government should tend to err on the side of inaction, but then if people actually commit public order offences, should actually prosecute and jail.

    Because I don't like the idea of criminalizing kids sitting around plotting to overthrow capitalism. But I do want to punish them appropriately when they massively inconvenience hundreds of thousands of people and bring economic activity to a halt.
    On the contrary we should jail more so they learn not to conspire online, carry a phone at all times and learn about things like dead drops and old fashioned conspiratorial tools which governments cant autotrack. How else do we raise properly a new generation of subvervives that realise they can organise it on instagram
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,408
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    Apart from starmer doesn't speak latin he is the son of a toolmaker dont you know
    'Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of “pulling up the drawbridge behind him” by axing a Latin programme for state schools despite studying the ancient language himself....
    Sir Keir is understood to be among several Cabinet ministers to have studied Latin at school.

    The Prime Minister’s official biography says that although he disliked Latin while a pupil at Reigate Grammar School, Aubrey Scrase, who taught the classical subject, “was his favourite teacher, someone who took him and his friends on trips to London to see plays”.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/07/starmer-accused-double-standards-scrapping-latin-programme/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,467
    edited 6:45PM
    a
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Is modern day slavery rising? Genuine question.
    Reporting, prosecutions etc are up on many countries. This might well be because of awareness/taking it seriously. See @DavidL’s description of the rise historic prosecutions for sex offences.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,120
    The war is over. Pakistan has won.

    https://x.com/skynews/status/1921271161423290526
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Is modern day slavery rising? Genuine question.
    The figures say so....now you might argue its being reported more like some tried to but I doubt general public adverts accounted for the 33% increase between 2021 and 2022
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,780
    Betting Post:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    On Angela Rayner. People can debate whether she’d be the right person to appeal to the voters [I think she’d prove more popular than many people think]. But if Starmer goes whilst in Government the voters don’t get a say. Labour members do. And at the moment, she’s nailed on.



    She's 10 for leader on BF
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,681

    Betting Post:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    On Angela Rayner. People can debate whether she’d be the right person to appeal to the voters [I think she’d prove more popular than many people think]. But if Starmer goes whilst in Government the voters don’t get a say. Labour members do. And at the moment, she’s nailed on.



    She's 10 for leader on BF

    If approaching the next GE, Labour look as if they are going to lose to Reform, Rayner is the obvious choice to appeal to potential Reform voters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,961
    Head of the useless ONS, where ‘workers’ are threatening strike action because they’ve been asked to go to the office two days a week, has retired due to ill health.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2qnzdvq25o
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 11,085
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Imagine if Keir Starmer managed to get real wages growing, immigration dropping fast, interest rates back down, NHS waiting lists down...

    Oh wait... you don't have to imagine, all of those things are happening.

    I am not convinced that "deliverism" can deliver, because the public always want more, and faster.

    We are not longer a society that values delayed gratification.

    Obviously less so than, say, the 1950s.

    But Starmer barely tries to sell his policies. The public can be forgiven for assuming he doesn’t have any.
    Can you supply a list of his policies because I live here and the only policy I can see is we ain't tories
    Well, we're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under fives, and the abolition of slavery.
    Why would anyone eat breakfast its not like as a country we are not obese, same therefore with corsets it just hides the problem. As to abolition of slavery well in 2015 we had 3263 referals when the modern slavery act was enacted now in the latest figures I can find 16938 in 2022 a 33% increase on 2021
    You need to watch more Blackadder.
    You deny modern slavery is rising despite the figures?
    Dunny-on-the-Wold is a tuppenny- ha'penny place.

    Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named Colin, and a small hen in its late forties.
    No idea now what you are talking about , I quoted stats you quoted gibberish
    I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab.
    Possibly the only good reason to Bring Boris Back.
    Apart from starmer doesn't speak latin he is the son of a toolmaker dont you know
    'Sir Keir Starmer has been accused of “pulling up the drawbridge behind him” by axing a Latin programme for state schools despite studying the ancient language himself....
    Sir Keir is understood to be among several Cabinet ministers to have studied Latin at school.

    The Prime Minister’s official biography says that although he disliked Latin while a pupil at Reigate Grammar School, Aubrey Scrase, who taught the classical subject, “was his favourite teacher, someone who took him and his friends on trips to London to see plays”.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/03/07/starmer-accused-double-standards-scrapping-latin-programme/
    He has no qualifications in latin nor can I find a non telegraph quote (which means its highly dubious) to suggest he ever even studied latin. Now aubrey scrase was indeed a latin teacher at school....didn't mean the only subject he taught....most teachers in my experience and I come from a similar age group taught more than one subject even if they were known as a teacher of x
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,961

    Betting Post:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    On Angela Rayner. People can debate whether she’d be the right person to appeal to the voters [I think she’d prove more popular than many people think]. But if Starmer goes whilst in Government the voters don’t get a say. Labour members do. And at the moment, she’s nailed on.



    She's 10 for leader on BF

    I’m. It sure if Rayner appeals to the working class but she certainly appeals to middle class centrists as their ideal of what a working class hero should be. How dare the genuine working class not worship her.
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