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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I avoid chicken as a rule, but you have just given me a further reason to do so.

    Chicken is delicious and nutritious. It is best cooked on the bone with the skin and my preference is a nice slow-cooked chicken casserole.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203
    Nigelb said:

    Chief constable retires after being told of investigation into alleged workplace relationships
    Scott Chilton leaves post at Hampshire and Isle of Wight Constabulary with immediate effect after notice from IOPC
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/07/chief-constable-retires-after-being-told-of-investigation-into-alleged-workplace-relationships

    Up next: career burglar retires from a life of crime after being told that the police have video evidence of his latest heist.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    It's not completely unbalanced. Just that there was a farcical situation where components from China attracted higher *UK tariffs* than finished products. Which meant that making Raspberry PIs in the UK wasn't attractive.

    The back story of that is funny - it dates back to the 60s, when the unions (IIRC) were worried that component manufacture was heading over seas. So they lobbied for a tariff on components - and got it. And there it stayed. Bee a while since they made televisions in the UK....
    I think I was mixing two conversations. Yes, I remember that now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    I have derogatarily referred to them as the Gaza bros before, and sure they do bring it up relatively often in Parliament which is not a massive surprise, but this thread might have been more interesting to talk about their other positions - eg apart from that particualr issue, are they predominantly voting with Labour, or the Tories etc?

    Last July, four independent MPs were elected in heavily-Muslim seats.

    They capitalised on Muslim frustration with the Labour Party's position on Gaza. Their campaigns focused primarily on winning Muslim votes.

    But what have they been up to since the General Election?

    https://nitter.poast.org/sam_bidwell/status/1908864797459821036#m
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    edited April 7
    Nigelb said:

    The White House has cancelled a scheduled press conference with PM Netanyahu
    https://x.com/meridithmcgraw/status/1909292610738364636

    Worried Netanyahu would beat Trump to death with his eyes if they tried to publicly upbraid him like Zelensky?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    For much the same reason you do.
    No I don't. I respond, often argumentatively, to the point someone has actually made.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    edited April 7
    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    It's not run by them, but they are incredibly rich weirdos who would if they could.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,219
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The White House has cancelled a scheduled press conference with PM Netanyahu
    https://x.com/meridithmcgraw/status/1909292610738364636

    Worried Netanyahu would beat Trump to death with his eyes if they tried to publicly upbraid him like Zelensky?
    His tie was the wrong colour?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367

    Fox host: "We are years and years into other countries making our narcotics. The drugs we need to deal with, on a day to day basis, to stay alive. Don't we wanna do that in this country?"


    Not sure she knows what narcotics as a term means these days.

    Perhaps she knows all too well and is tacitly admitting to a problem.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,219
    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,565

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    Tripe, on the other hand, you probably should wash.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367

    These people are just literally insane:



    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    5m
    Rep. Roger Williams: "I think he's right. We shouldn't have trade differences with anybody."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1909302524772769831

    No, they're a bit thick and don't understand economics.

    I even doubt they realise that actual goods are being exchanged so that while country X might transfer money to country Y, country Y is transferring goods to country X.

    I'd like to see them asked if they think there should be zero differences in trade and financial flows between individual US states.

    Or perhaps whether they'd like to get rid of money and return to a barter system.
    I usually find it hard to criticise economic illiteracy since I'm not very confident in my own level of understanding, but I read their comments on it and I do a double take and think 'If even I can tell that make sno sense surely they can'.

    And most probably do, but the king says it is the truth now, so now choice.

    Roger Williams the founder of Rhode Island from the 17th century probably had better understanding.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    glw said:

    These people are just literally insane:



    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    5m
    Rep. Roger Williams: "I think he's right. We shouldn't have trade differences with anybody."

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1909302524772769831

    I have a pet theory, which I grow more confident about as time passes, that essentially nobody at the top of any organisation you care to name, in any field, is all that competent, but that the systems/processes/rules that exist guide them towards good decisions and outcomes. i.e. Laws, regulation, customs, procedures and so on idiot-proof society.

    The flip-side of that is that if you dispense with rules and let people use their judgement or God forbid it even let "common sense" rip then you get bad outcomes.
    Isn't it basically the same as the issue of any benevolent tyrant, in what happens if they have an off day and who follows them?

    'The blob' and other bureacratic institutions come with drawbacks that need sorting from time to time, but there' a reason they developed in the first place. You have to force people to think and do things in open, transparent, and rational ways.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,166
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    Tripe, on the other hand, you probably should wash.
    Tripe-washing is the technical term for tariff-splaining.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,437

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    As many of you know I've been veggie since the early 1990s, but my Mum always washes chicken before cooking (for herself of course, or when my brother and sis-in-law come round).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,997
    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    Whats shocking about today is bond yields are rising sharply as the market falls. In other words higher interest rates are beconing more likely. This will crush the world economy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,124

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    For much the same reason you do.
    No I don't. I respond, often argumentatively, to the point someone has actually made.
    The reason being that you like to have the last word.
    As you just demonstrated.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Bogota said:

    Whats shocking about today is bond yields are rising sharply as the market falls. In other words higher interest rates are beconing more likely. This will crush the world economy.

    How can that be, Trump is richer than ever so everyone must be doing ok right?
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    @mikedrucker.bsky.social‬

    CEOs upset about Trump’s tariffs sound like mob bosses shouting “I thought we had a deal!” at the Joker.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mikedrucker.bsky.social/post/3lmadvvojq22o
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    kle4 said:

    Bogota said:

    Whats shocking about today is bond yields are rising sharply as the market falls. In other words higher interest rates are beconing more likely. This will crush the world economy.

    How can that be, Trump is richer than ever so everyone must be doing ok right?
    There is an argument Trump wants a broken ruined country. Why. Because then people will be totally dependent on him for favours. His family has untramelled power. The american rich and middle class are decimated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,124

    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX

    There's probably sense in the contract, but the obvious conflict if interest would disqualify him from involvement in government in any other western democracy.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,407

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    @Big_G_NorthWales didn't post the same thing again. What he posted added more information, explaining washing can increase the danger by spreading the bacteria. I have no idea how this compares to the threat from BPA, but it was relevant and perfectly valid post pointing out there are conflicting risks. Do you know which is the greatest risk? Wash or not wash?

    You did the same thing the other day, accusing me of responding to a post you hadn't made on customs when I responded to a post you actually did make entirely on customs (even if the previous one you made wasn't). You seem to struggle on discussions that have any complexity in them as they develop and move forward.
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikedrucker.bsky.social‬

    CEOs upset about Trump’s tariffs sound like mob bosses shouting “I thought we had a deal!” at the Joker.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mikedrucker.bsky.social/post/3lmadvvojq22o

    Im enjoying watching Bill Ackman squirm. Well you did sell your soul to the devil Bill.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,185
    Interesting discussion on Trump tariffs on Unherd channel, particularly the last 15-20 mins

    https://youtu.be/MPN07rU_w3I?si
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,107
    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,407
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off

    I think the markets haven’t priced that in . Effectively a 104% tariff on Chinese imports into the USA . If an agreement isn’t reached before Thursday then I expect the markets to go into a complete meltdown .
    Not that Trump would care, he is going to impose his uber protectionist agenda whatever the cost
    They are both going to get to tariff levels where trade ceases altogether aren't they. Who is more dependent upon the other? I have a feeling this hurts America more. Of course there is always the possibility they trade with one another via a 3rd party.
    China does export a lot to the US but will try and replace that elsewhere, Trump will hope US production increases to offset the cheap Chinese imports
    Trouble for America is, it can't produce what China provides for the same price or even close to, so prices will go up in America. Whereas I suspect China can source what America sells China elsewhere fairly competitively. China's problem will be finding enough alternative markets for its products.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,107
    Scott_xP said:

    @DavidGauke

    Congress needs to step in and strip the President of his powers over tariffs. Will require political courage from Republicans but when your leader is intent on a mad policy that will have a devastating impact on the prosperity of your people you have to do what you have to do.

    Twenty one of us did it in 2019 over Brexit and I don’t think any of us regret it.

    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/1909270021852782776

    Spot the fatal flaw in Uncorked Gauke there, please class.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,107

    Anyone who voted for Trump owns this. I’m sorry, but they do. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The man was clearly on a grievance-fuelled power trip with little care for who he hurt along the way.

    Posts like that aren't helpful and simply fuel polarisation.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,407

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Time. No party has a right to exist forever or be one of the dominant two, but the Tories have an impressive history of recovery.
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    Ratters said:

    Bogota said:

    Whats shocking about today is bond yields are rising sharply as the market falls. In other words higher interest rates are beconing more likely. This will crush the world economy.

    Honestly, part of the problem is no one in the markets has a fucking clue what they're doing right now.

    You don't need a model of company growth, GDP trends and cashflows at the moment in markets. You need the world's best child psychologist.
    Its like we have put a 3 yr old in charge of the world economy. By turns hilarious and terrifying.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,107
    kjh said:

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Time. No party has a right to exist forever or be one of the dominant two, but the Tories have an impressive history of recovery.
    They do, but they look to me to be circling the plughole.

    Strangely, I think their fundamental problem is a lack of confidence and self-belief.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203
    DougSeal said:

    I think it’s ace that the world is so quiet that PB has little better to do than engage in a vitriolic argument over the merits of washing chicken.

    Doubly so, since there are no merits in washing chicken.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    Late to this but here goes. Veg, packed in plastic, not washed but either steamed or boiled will surely be washed by the rather hot water. Now a lot of organic (as in organic chemicals, not the bullshit version) are not soluble in even hot water, so would be unlikely to be removed in the prewash either, unless copious amounts of surfactant are used. But who wants their food with a side serving of surfactant?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203

    Interesting discussion on Trump tariffs on Unherd channel, particularly the last 15-20 mins

    https://youtu.be/MPN07rU_w3I?si

    I know I'm being lazy but can you give us a summary of the main thrust?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,890
    Do you not wash chicken at the swimming pool, to ensure you get all that lovely delicious chlorine?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd1ciPnTGKg
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,124

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    Tripe, on the other hand, you probably should wash.
    Tripe-washing is the technical term for tariff-splaining.
    Trump is more your unwashed chitterlings.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,144
    Bogota said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
    IMV that's not true. There are many different types of social skills: for instance, people who freeze when addressing a room full of strangers, but are very good at getting deals one-to-one. Or vice versa.

    These tech oligarchs got to the top by a heady mixture of a little skill, lots of luck, and being able to talk to financiers, other tech boes, good managers, and that sort of person. They are very good at talking to the sort of person they've been around for the last couple of decades. And most of them don't particularly care to talk to the rest of us. We're just the product.

    Musk is slightly different: he has cultivated a loyal and (IMO dim-witted) fanbase who hang on his every word, and spread His message for Him (and yes, some do see him as akin to, if not above, God). But if you watch him in many social situations, then he is incredibly awkward. He is no Steve Jobs.

    So they dominate the world not by using social skills to talk to the masses, but by talking to other people like them. And we, the masses, are just the product.
  • "We're putting a hurting on the Houtis" is a nice byline from tonights Whitehouse series episode..I mean press conference..😏
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,166
    Nigelb said:

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    Tripe, on the other hand, you probably should wash.
    Tripe-washing is the technical term for tariff-splaining.
    Trump is more your unwashed chitterlings.
    Explains the rumours of a foul smell I suppose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,921
    Nigelb said:

    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX

    There's probably sense in the contract, but the obvious conflict if interest would disqualify him from involvement in government in any other western democracy.
    It's almost impressive how the offspring of the two largest and most well funded defence contractors (ULA) can't launch rockets as cheaply as SpaceX after decades of watching them do it. There's no especial magic, either. You can literally read the papers online, written by various engineers there on things like landing algorithms.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: There have been some mixed messages. You're talking about negotiations, and yet others in your administration are saying these tariffs are permanent.

    TRUMP: Well, they can both be true. There are things we need beyond tariffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmap6pt5jl2w

    That'll calm the markets then !
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: The EU has said they offered zero for zero tariffs on cars and industrial goods. Is that not enough?

    TRUMP: No, it's not

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapjpb4t22d

    OK, war then
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Bogota said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
    Hence trying to get everyone hooked into the Metaverse or have neurochips or whatever.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: There have been some mixed messages. You're talking about negotiations, and yet others in your administration are saying these tariffs are permanent.

    TRUMP: Well, they can both be true. There are things we need beyond tariffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmap6pt5jl2w

    That'll calm the markets then !

    He wants to dominate, but also claim to be a victim of others conspiring against the USA. It does not make for a rational solution.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    Bogota said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
    Abigail Disney at
    @patrioticmillionaires.org
    : "The men we associate with 'broligarchy' are the emotionally stupid men (Bezos) psychologically underdeveloped men (Zuckerberg) damaged men (Musk) or overindulged & spoiled men Trump. They put more faith in aggression as a means of problem solving."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmantnqndk2k
  • BogotaBogota Posts: 35
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: There have been some mixed messages. You're talking about negotiations, and yet others in your administration are saying these tariffs are permanent.

    TRUMP: Well, they can both be true. There are things we need beyond tariffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmap6pt5jl2w

    That'll calm the markets then !

    He wants to dominate, but also claim to be a victim of others conspiring against the USA. It does not make for a rational solution.
    How can any business make plans here.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,589
    edited April 7
    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    +1 - Trump is about to find out that over the first 60 days as President he scared everyone and since then he's been providing even more reasons as to why the USA is now at best untrustworthy and at worst someone best to avoid doing business with.

    Worse it's completely impossible to plan on how to mitigate things because Trump could randomly change things tomorrow - businesses and Governments need stability and Trump's USA is anything but stable and consistent...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Bogota said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: There have been some mixed messages. You're talking about negotiations, and yet others in your administration are saying these tariffs are permanent.

    TRUMP: Well, they can both be true. There are things we need beyond tariffs.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmap6pt5jl2w

    That'll calm the markets then !

    He wants to dominate, but also claim to be a victim of others conspiring against the USA. It does not make for a rational solution.
    How can any business make plans here.
    Donate to Trump.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    Late to this but here goes. Veg, packed in plastic, not washed but either steamed or boiled will surely be washed by the rather hot water. Now a lot of organic (as in organic chemicals, not the bullshit version) are not soluble in even hot water, so would be unlikely to be removed in the prewash either, unless copious amounts of surfactant are used. But who wants their food with a side serving of surfactant?
    I wondered about this. The skin of a chicken is fatty, I assume any chemical contamination would be with that fat. That's not washing off with plain water.

    Still, Chicken à la Fairy Liquid could become a thing, I guess.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,144

    Nigelb said:

    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX

    There's probably sense in the contract, but the obvious conflict if interest would disqualify him from involvement in government in any other western democracy.
    It's almost impressive how the offspring of the two largest and most well funded defence contractors (ULA) can't launch rockets as cheaply as SpaceX after decades of watching them do it. There's no especial magic, either. You can literally read the papers online, written by various engineers there on things like landing algorithms.
    ULA would love to. But no-one in ULA has the power to invest in the capability because their owners, Boeing and LM, are uninterested. That will continue to be the case until, and probably beyond, when they are eventually sold.

    Their SMART Idea seems interesting, as does BO's Jarvis upper stage (and indeed, the alleged competition between reusable second stages and cheaply built ones).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    Scott_xP said:

    Bogota said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
    Abigail Disney at
    @patrioticmillionaires.org
    : "The men we associate with 'broligarchy' are the emotionally stupid men (Bezos) psychologically underdeveloped men (Zuckerberg) damaged men (Musk) or overindulged & spoiled men Trump. They put more faith in aggression as a means of problem solving."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmantnqndk2k
    I have an untested assumption that Bezos may be the least damaging because he's the most normal, in that he just wants to be as wealthy as possible and treat people like a number on a spreadsheet, and that type are numerous just not as rich. Whereas Zuckerberg and Musk, publicly at least, seem to display a messianic desire for transform society to their company's benefit.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 836

    Bogota said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    The concept that the world is now ruled by tech oligarchs has been tested and found wanting.

    Conversely, the concept that the world is now ruled badly by tech oligarchs has been tested and found proven.
    Musk completely lacks the social skills and general horse sense to dominate the world. Same for most tech oligarchs.
    IMV that's not true. There are many different types of social skills: for instance, people who freeze when addressing a room full of strangers, but are very good at getting deals one-to-one. Or vice versa.

    These tech oligarchs got to the top by a heady mixture of a little skill, lots of luck, and being able to talk to financiers, other tech boes, good managers, and that sort of person. They are very good at talking to the sort of person they've been around for the last couple of decades. And most of them don't particularly care to talk to the rest of us. We're just the product.

    Musk is slightly different: he has cultivated a loyal and (IMO dim-witted) fanbase who hang on his every word, and spread His message for Him (and yes, some do see him as akin to, if not above, God). But if you watch him in many social situations, then he is incredibly awkward. He is no Steve Jobs.

    So they dominate the world not by using social skills to talk to the masses, but by talking to other people like them. And we, the masses, are just the product.
    This is very well put and concords with my experience too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,367
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    +1 - Trump is about to find out that over the first 60 days as President he scared everyone and since then he's been providing even more reasons as to why the USA is now at best untrustworthy and at worst someone best to avoid doing business with.

    Worse it's completely impossible to plan on how to mitigate things because Trump could randomly change things tomorrow - businesses and Governments need stability and Trump's USA is anything but stable and consistent...
    He likes that, in the moment, because it shows how powerful he is. He won't regret it because he never regrets anything, but others will.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,176
    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    Most Europeans are going to stick with America, even with Trump, than get in bed with an autocratic regimes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.

    I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.

    As many of you know I've been veggie since the early 1990s, but my Mum always washes chicken before cooking (for herself of course, or when my brother and sis-in-law come round).
    Mother knows best.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,114
    Quite a fun video (by a mathematician) on the maths behind the Trump tariffs:

    https://youtu.be/j04IAbWCszg?si=C9TEQeJOOPL59-Lj
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,185
    US President Donald Trump says he is not considering a pause on new tariffs, to allow negotiations with other countries after being asked directly by a reporter in the White House.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,577

    nico67 said:

    According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/hubris-is-off-the-charts-trump-marktes-crash-economy-recession-golf-florida?r=1emko&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

    Will Trump get a Kim Jong Un haircut . Perhaps he could invite him over as well as Putin to enjoy the festivities!
    Got a horrible feeling that is what will happen.
    My one use of an image-generator today :

    Trump, Putin, Kim showing off their matching haircuts
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,289
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    Most Europeans are going to stick with America, even with Trump, than get in bed with an autocratic regimes.
    America is now unreliable, inconsistent, its democratic checks and balances weakened, with leaders who continually denigrate their supposed allies and praise their supposed enemies.

    It is becoming increasingly plausible that if it doesn’t regain any sanity it will be abandoned by its allies. Everyone will lose in this, but it will be the biggest loser.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,503
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    Most Europeans are going to stick with America, even with Trump, than get in bed with an autocratic regimes.
    You’re forgetting that Trump is building an autocratic regime.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,166
    edited April 7
    Bezos et al are not stupid or necessarily psychologically unstable.

    The problem is that they are unelected and have too much power. Nobody has voted for them or their products to have such influence on our lives.

    The U.S. has no real interest in regulating any of this, and China is already a social credit hellhole, so really the UK is best trying to make common cause with the EU and perhaps Canada-Australia-UK to protect the public against digital predations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,921

    Nigelb said:

    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX

    There's probably sense in the contract, but the obvious conflict if interest would disqualify him from involvement in government in any other western democracy.
    It's almost impressive how the offspring of the two largest and most well funded defence contractors (ULA) can't launch rockets as cheaply as SpaceX after decades of watching them do it. There's no especial magic, either. You can literally read the papers online, written by various engineers there on things like landing algorithms.
    ULA would love to. But no-one in ULA has the power to invest in the capability because their owners, Boeing and LM, are uninterested. That will continue to be the case until, and probably beyond, when they are eventually sold.

    Their SMART Idea seems interesting, as does BO's Jarvis upper stage (and indeed, the alleged competition between reusable second stages and cheaply built ones).
    SMART is pretty dumb - demolishing the stage to get the engines back only makes sense if your stages are cheap. Vulcan first stages aren’t.

    There’s a reason that everyone else, round the world is going for first stage reuse - intact.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,577

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    Late to this but here goes. Veg, packed in plastic, not washed but either steamed or boiled will surely be washed by the rather hot water. Now a lot of organic (as in organic chemicals, not the bullshit version) are not soluble in even hot water, so would be unlikely to be removed in the prewash either, unless copious amounts of surfactant are used. But who wants their food with a side serving of surfactant?
    I wondered about this. The skin of a chicken is fatty, I assume any chemical contamination would be with that fat. That's not washing off with plain water.

    Still, Chicken à la Fairy Liquid could become a thing, I guess.
    I can see a new Fat Duck menu item now...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,831
    edited April 7

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
    Good idea to be fair
    Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.

    Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).

    You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.

    And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.

    And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
    You presumably haven't seen the scum because you have never boiled it out. The faff is the effort of boiling a pan of water, sticking a chicken in the water and taking it out again. Probably about 20 seconds of your time. For that you get a slightly better tasting roast bird and save maybe 10 minutes cooking time.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,860
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    Most Europeans are going to stick with America, even with Trump, than get in bed with an autocratic regimes.
    Have you even been watching since November?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,769

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    A start would be to see whether they can go back to the sensible days where they were a broad church, but Bozo's scorched earth policy has made this very difficult. Trump is doing a similar, but even more extreme version on the GOP. Parties that purge a whole wing that doesn't agree with the leadership of the day will reap their eventual comeuppance.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,289

    US President Donald Trump says he is not considering a pause on new tariffs, to allow negotiations with other countries after being asked directly by a reporter in the White House.

    And doubles down on his extra China tariffs. Brace….
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    A start would be to see whether they can go back to the sensible days where they were a broad church, but Bozo's scorched earth policy has made this very difficult. Trump is doing a similar, but even more extreme version on the GOP. Parties that purge a whole wing that doesn't agree with the leadership of the day will reap their eventual comeuppance.
    Although it took >60 years for Soviet Communist Party's comeuppance to arrive.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,218

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    A start would be to see whether they can go back to the sensible days where they were a broad church, but Bozo's scorched earth policy has made this very difficult. Trump is doing a similar, but even more extreme version on the GOP. Parties that purge a whole wing that doesn't agree with the leadership of the day will reap their eventual comeuppance.
    Have any of the class of '24 impressed so far? My suspicion is that they are the ones who will be able to escape from the tar pit of the 2019-24 fiasco by saying "nothing to do with me, guv".

    If there is still a meaningful Conservative Party left by the time they reach the top.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,144

    Nigelb said:

    Oh.


    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    23m
    It appears that US Space Force isn't taking a DOGE like cut as the other agencies are. On Friday it announced three big contracts. The biggest: $6 billion to Elon Musk's SpaceX

    There's probably sense in the contract, but the obvious conflict if interest would disqualify him from involvement in government in any other western democracy.
    It's almost impressive how the offspring of the two largest and most well funded defence contractors (ULA) can't launch rockets as cheaply as SpaceX after decades of watching them do it. There's no especial magic, either. You can literally read the papers online, written by various engineers there on things like landing algorithms.
    ULA would love to. But no-one in ULA has the power to invest in the capability because their owners, Boeing and LM, are uninterested. That will continue to be the case until, and probably beyond, when they are eventually sold.

    Their SMART Idea seems interesting, as does BO's Jarvis upper stage (and indeed, the alleged competition between reusable second stages and cheaply built ones).
    SMART is pretty dumb - demolishing the stage to get the engines back only makes sense if your stages are cheap. Vulcan first stages aren’t.

    There’s a reason that everyone else, round the world is going for first stage reuse - intact.
    I pretty much disagree with that. It's another approach to a similar end. Without a look at the costs, it *may* be sensible - particularly for a rocket that was not designed from the ground up to be reused.

    BO are apparently looking at having a 'competition' between reusable second stages and newly-built ones, to see which is most efficient. That seems a sensible thing to be doing, especially as SS keeps on failing...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,565
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    Late to this but here goes. Veg, packed in plastic, not washed but either steamed or boiled will surely be washed by the rather hot water. Now a lot of organic (as in organic chemicals, not the bullshit version) are not soluble in even hot water, so would be unlikely to be removed in the prewash either, unless copious amounts of surfactant are used. But who wants their food with a side serving of surfactant?
    I wondered about this. The skin of a chicken is fatty, I assume any chemical contamination would be with that fat. That's not washing off with plain water.

    Still, Chicken à la Fairy Liquid could become a thing, I guess.
    I can see a new Fat Duck menu item now...
    Lemon chicken? Hardly new. Nutter chicken might do though. It's like Butter chicken but you wash the meat first.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,769
    ohnotnow said:

    nico67 said:

    According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/hubris-is-off-the-charts-trump-marktes-crash-economy-recession-golf-florida?r=1emko&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

    Will Trump get a Kim Jong Un haircut . Perhaps he could invite him over as well as Putin to enjoy the festivities!
    Got a horrible feeling that is what will happen.
    My one use of an image-generator today :

    Trump, Putin, Kim showing off their matching haircuts
    Trump some how looks better with that hair style.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,589

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @atrupar.com‬

    REPORTER: How do you ensure that these tariffs don't drive US trading partners into the hands of the Chinese?

    TRUMP: I'm not worried about. If they want to be in the hands of the US -- they don't want to be in the hands of the Chinese. People that are with us, are with us.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapkbmdcr25

    He's about to find out just how many people hate him

    Most Europeans are going to stick with America, even with Trump, than get in bed with an autocratic regimes.
    Have you even been watching since November?
    +1 - at least you know where you stand when dealing with China...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,017
    So are Americans paying these tariffs already? It all seems very abstract at the moment
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,792
    He is having an episode on live TV

    @atrupar.com‬

    Trump: "I said to [the former hostages], was there any sign of love? Did Hamas show any signs of, like, help or liking you? Did they give you a piece of bread extra? Did they give you a meal on the side? Like what happened in Germany."

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3lmapxnlj6i26
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,203
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
    Good idea to be fair
    Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.

    Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).

    You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.

    And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.

    And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
    You presumably haven't seen the scum because you have never boiled it out. The faff is the effort of boiling a pan of water, sticking a chicken in the water and taking it out again. Probably about 20 seconds of your time. For that you get a slightly better tasting roast bird and save maybe 10 minutes cooking time.
    Fair enough. I winder what the 'scum' actually is? We do get a scum from simmering the carcass for stock which we always do after a roast bird - so much better than stock cube stock. We skim the scum off and freeze the stock for whenever we need it.

    Anyway, I think we'll stick to the Waitrose brined chickens for the foreseeable, as this one was so good.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,219
    Trump: Eggs, they're all over the place.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,023
    rcs1000 said:

    Quite a fun video (by a mathematician) on the maths behind the Trump tariffs:

    https://youtu.be/j04IAbWCszg?si=C9TEQeJOOPL59-Lj

    The first line is Chinese leader and Trump, with Trump killing the Chinese leader with a pointy stick.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,488

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
    Good idea to be fair
    Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.

    Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).

    You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.

    And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.

    And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
    You presumably haven't seen the scum because you have never boiled it out. The faff is the effort of boiling a pan of water, sticking a chicken in the water and taking it out again. Probably about 20 seconds of your time. For that you get a slightly better tasting roast bird and save maybe 10 minutes cooking time.
    Fair enough. I winder what the 'scum' actually is? We do get a scum from simmering the carcass for stock which we always do after a roast bird - so much better than stock cube stock. We skim the scum off and freeze the stock for whenever we need it.

    Anyway, I think we'll stick to the Waitrose brined chickens for the foreseeable, as this one was so good.
    Hmm. The scum is clearly not water soluble, so fatty elements combined with bits of debris from the carcass?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548
    edited April 7

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
    Good idea to be fair
    Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.

    Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).

    You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.

    And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.

    And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
    You presumably haven't seen the scum because you have never boiled it out. The faff is the effort of boiling a pan of water, sticking a chicken in the water and taking it out again. Probably about 20 seconds of your time. For that you get a slightly better tasting roast bird and save maybe 10 minutes cooking time.
    Fair enough. I winder what the 'scum' actually is? We do get a scum from simmering the carcass for stock which we always do after a roast bird - so much better than stock cube stock. We skim the scum off and freeze the stock for whenever we need it.

    Anyway, I think we'll stick to the Waitrose brined chickens for the foreseeable, as this one was so good.
    This is a complete guess, so don't accuse me of kooky theories, but maybe it's dead pathogens and parasites and things. I have heard about skimming and how its better to take off the foam and get rid. Never investigated it though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,144

    Bezos et al are not stupid or necessarily psychologically unstable.

    The problem is that they are unelected and have too much power. Nobody has voted for them or their products to have such influence on our lives.

    (Snip)

    I've thought about this a little in the past, and I think the 'nobody has voted for them' is a strong part of it.

    They are a bunch of people who have become very rich, and are often feted by others - either for their 'talent' (*) or their riches. They talk to, and hang out with, other rich people like them. They are utterly disconnected from the rest of us, and why should they listen to us? After all, they're rich and successful, and we're not. Otherwise we'd be one of them. So their 'ideas' for the future of society, sounded out amongst their friends, is obviously correct. Worse, not only do we buy their products: in many cases, we are the product.

    If I was in their situation, I might be the same. What would keep me grounded in reality?

    At least politicians need to get voted in, and that means talking to, and at worst pretending to listen to, the masses, for fear of losing their seat at the next election.

    The techbroes have no need for that. Their ideas will obviously be successful because *they* are successful, and better than us.

    (*) Which is often partly dumb luck and timing
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,023

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Kemi has really improved as this year has gone on - she is now regularly besting Starmer at PMQs. She is punchy and clear in interviews and on social media - such as how she dismantled Lammy yesterday, not a tough gig though admittedly. Her vox pops and soundbites getting onto the news have been so good recently, I can imagine Kemi as a Prime Minister now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,300
    Has anyone kept up with Ukraine news in between the rest?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,789

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Kemi has really improved as this year has gone on - she is now regularly besting Starmer at PMQs. She is punchy and clear in interviews and on social media - such as how she dismantled Lammy yesterday, not a tough gig though admittedly. Her vox pops and soundbites getting onto the news have been so good recently, I can imagine Kemi as a Prime Minister now.
    Prime Minister of Israel yes?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,890

    Trump: Eggs, they're all over the place.

    Can't make an omelette ("resetting" an economy) without breaking a few eggs (smashing the shit out of the world's financial markets).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,144

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    OllyT said:

    nico67 said:

    So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .

    I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
    I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
    China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.

    The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
    Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
    Where would you suggest one should wash it?
    Don't wash it - cook it correctly
    I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
    Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
    It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
    This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken

    Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed

    Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.

    Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.

    Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).

    Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.

    Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.

    When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.

    Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.

    It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
    I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
    Good idea to be fair
    Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.

    Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).

    You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.

    And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.

    And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
    You presumably haven't seen the scum because you have never boiled it out. The faff is the effort of boiling a pan of water, sticking a chicken in the water and taking it out again. Probably about 20 seconds of your time. For that you get a slightly better tasting roast bird and save maybe 10 minutes cooking time.
    Fair enough. I winder what the 'scum' actually is? We do get a scum from simmering the carcass for stock which we always do after a roast bird - so much better than stock cube stock. We skim the scum off and freeze the stock for whenever we need it.

    Anyway, I think we'll stick to the Waitrose brined chickens for the foreseeable, as this one was so good.
    This is a complete guess, so don't accuse me of kooky theories, but maybe it's dead pathogens and parasites and things. I have heard about skimming and how its better to take off the foam and get rid. Never investigated it though.
    An AI answer:

    "The "scum" that forms on top of boiling chicken broth is primarily coagulated proteins (like albumin) and fat that rise to the surface and clump together, often appearing as a foamy or bubbly layer. "
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,407
    rcs1000 said:

    Quite a fun video (by a mathematician) on the maths behind the Trump tariffs:

    https://youtu.be/j04IAbWCszg?si=C9TEQeJOOPL59-Lj

    Both excellent and depressing. I must admit when I first saw the equation I thought it was an attempt to make it look mathsy(sp?) or dressing up something simple to look complex.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,147

    Trump: Eggs, they're all over the place.

    His face for one.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,342

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Kemi has really improved as this year has gone on - she is now regularly besting Starmer at PMQs. She is punchy and clear in interviews and on social media - such as how she dismantled Lammy yesterday, not a tough gig though admittedly. Her vox pops and soundbites getting onto the news have been so good recently, I can imagine Kemi as a Prime Minister now.
    Not what more neutral observers detect though.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,023
    Tres said:

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Kemi has really improved as this year has gone on - she is now regularly besting Starmer at PMQs. She is punchy and clear in interviews and on social media - such as how she dismantled Lammy yesterday, not a tough gig though admittedly. Her vox pops and soundbites getting onto the news have been so good recently, I can imagine Kemi as a Prime Minister now.
    Prime Minister of Israel yes?
    She is the coming force at the top of UK politics. Keep an eye on it. May 5th 2029 she can be in Downing Street as Prime Minister.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,394

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    A start would be to see whether they can go back to the sensible days where they were a broad church, but Bozo's scorched earth policy has made this very difficult. Trump is doing a similar, but even more extreme version on the GOP. Parties that purge a whole wing that doesn't agree with the leadership of the day will reap their eventual comeuppance.
    To achieve that, ours would have to be a very different society. Much more akin to the Britain of the 1950's.

    Labour are no longer the broad church that they used to be.

    You no longer get 45% or so, identifying with each of the main parties.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,548

    On topic, the Conservatives have ratnered their brand: their own supporters don't trust them, and their elected representatives despise them in turn; everyone else who doesn't vote for them hates them.

    I'm not sure I see a way out.

    Kemi has really improved as this year has gone on - she is now regularly besting Starmer at PMQs. She is punchy and clear in interviews and on social media - such as how she dismantled Lammy yesterday, not a tough gig though admittedly. Her vox pops and soundbites getting onto the news have been so good recently, I can imagine Kemi as a Prime Minister now.
    Strangely we agree on this. I have sort of got used to her slow tempo too.

    The Tories have not 'Ratnered' their brand recently. Theresa May ratnered the brand when she called them 'the nasty party'. That was a classic Ratner, and almost as damaging as the original in its own way.
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