So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
The bath perhaps
Reminds me of the meme about leaving the Turkey to chill in the sink!
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it slightly odd that that wasn't already the situation beforehand.
It is done on trade gap not tariffs.
Take Madagascar. It produces loads of vanilla*, enough for 80% of the world. The USA buys its share, the Madagascans don't have the wealth to buy the same amount of US goods back. So vanilla exported to the USA gets hit with massive tariffs. There is nothing Madagascar can offer in return, so US consumers will have to pay more for vanilla.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
* The spice not the web hosting platform....
Buying high quality genuine vanilla essence is one of those activities which combines doing a tiny bit to support the trade of an amazing but poor country and obtaining the finest of all food fragrances. (Nutmeg and ginger close runner up). Buy some today.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
President Trump would veto a bill introduced by Sens. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) that would limit the president's authority to unilaterally impose tariffs, according to a White House statement seen by Axios.
Why it matters: In the midst of a potential trade war, Trump wants to ensure that the president retains full authority to tariff products entering America.
"If passed, this bill would dangerously hamper the President's authority and duty to determine our foreign policy and protect our national security," according to a statement of administration policy that was sent to congressional offices today. "If S. 1272 were presented to the President, he would veto the bill."
As far as I understand, the president doesn't have any authority over tariffs at all. He's had to invoke an emergency powers act to impose these tariffs. That's the basis of the legal action against the tariffs. Or at least one of the bases.
Congress voted to basically rubber stamp that for 12 months. So actually he now does.
It would take another vote for them to reassert their constitutional power over the matter. Which Trump could use a presidential veto on.
That's what I mean by his GOP "enablers".
Maybe what I've read is wrong.
Trump imposed the tariffs using emergency powers, which are granted by legislation. He likely did so improperly, but that is up to Congress to decide, not the courts (at least what legal precedent there is strongly suggests so).
So what did Congress do a little while back ?
https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/p/house-quietly-ducks-trump-tariff …an important thing you should know about the National Emergencies Act is that it’s a key way that Trump has imposed several of his tariffs, including the 20% tariffs on China and the (currently paused) 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico.
As I noted on Sunday, for those tariffs, Trump has invoked the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, a 1977 law that allows the president to regulate “importation or exportation” if it relates to a national emergency he’s declared under the National Emergencies Act. (Trump has declared a national emergency at the U.S.-Mexico border, which he then expanded to cover the “public health crisis of deaths due to the use of fentanyl and other illicit drugs” flowing in from Canada and China.)
But the National Emergencies Act also gives Congress a way to make sure a president isn’t just declaring national emergencies nilly-willy. Under the latest version of the law, the House and Senate can end a president’s national emergency by both passing a joint resolution — although, importantly, the president can simply veto the resolution. (This is what happened in 2019, when bipartisan majorities voted to end a border emergency Trump declared, but then Trump vetoed the resolution. Two-thirds votes in both chambers are required to override a veto.)
It’s not much, but it’s still something; in this case, it lays out a path for undoing Trump’s tariffs if enough lawmakers opposed them. Without the national emergency that undergirds them, the Canada/China/Mexico tariffs would evaporate.
The framers of the National Emergencies Act understood that a Congress controlled by the president’s party might be loath to hold a vote overturning their co-partisan’s national emergency, which is why the law guarantees that a joint resolution ending an emergency — no matter who introduces it — can get a vote within 18 “calendar days” of its introduction.
Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY) introduced a pair of resolutions on March 6 overturning the emergencies baked into Trump’s Canada and Mexico tariff orders. That means the 18-day clock is ticking…or, at least, it was until Tuesday’s rule resolution passed the House. Now that we know the background, let’s return to Section 4 of the rule resolution..
This language essentially means that the House will consider every day until the end of the year to be one long calendar day, at least for the purposes of the process described in the National Emergencies Act. And 18 calendar days can’t pass if you stop counting calendar days! Ergo, the House won’t be forced to vote on the emergency undergirding Trump’s tariffs, as it was on track to be…
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
Which part is not reality?
The bits you made up..
There were not more than three points there, and none remotely controversial. If you aren't even able to contradict even one successfully, that tells its own story on the strength of your argument.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
We have discussed this before, and it is widely accepted washing chicken spreads contamination and therefore chicken should not be washed but cooked correctly and great care taken with cooking utensils and washing hands
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
It's not completely unbalanced. Just that there was a farcical situation where components from China attracted higher *UK tariffs* than finished products. Which meant that making Raspberry PIs in the UK wasn't attractive.
The back story of that is funny - it dates back to the 60s, when the unions (IIRC) were worried that component manufacture was heading over seas. So they lobbied for a tariff on components - and got it. And there it stayed. Bee a while since they made televisions in the UK....
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it slightly odd that that wasn't already the situation beforehand.
It is done on trade gap not tariffs.
Take Madagascar. It produces loads of vanilla*, enough for 80% of the world. The USA buys its share, the Madagascans don't have the wealth to buy the same amount of US goods back. So vanilla exported to the USA gets hit with massive tariffs. There is nothing Madagascar can offer in return, so US consumers will have to pay more for vanilla.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
* The spice not the web hosting platform....
Could we please put an 80,000% tariff on the Vanilla, the commenting system?
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
Which part is not reality?
The bits you made up..
There were not more than three points there, and none remotely controversial. If you aren't even able to contradict even one successfully, that tells its own story on the strength of your argument.
"China has been on a decades long mission to undermine the economy" you wrote. And yet the truth is clearly the reverse.
Your entire idea that China is in a destructive war is wrong. The idea that they war on us simply by way of becoming dominant wouldn't be so.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
No, it wouldn't. It would serve to complicate the current clusterfuck, considerably.
Obviously we're a long way from this. But what happens to the global economy if Taiwan and Beijing reach a rapprochement where they form say an inter- country union like the EU with common customs and tariffs treating both the People's republic and the republic of China as a single entity ?
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
How everybody seems to survive that contamination is beyond me. Must be a miracle.
No, it wouldn't. It would serve to complicate the current clusterfuck, considerably.
Obviously we're a long way from this. But what happens to the global economy if Taiwan and Beijing reach a rapprochement where they form say an inter- country union like the EU with common customs and tariffs treating both the People's republic and the republic of China as a single entity ?
And China effectively swallows all their chips ex the rotw ?
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it slightly odd that that wasn't already the situation beforehand.
RU 4 real?
Unless you get all your information exclusively from insane far right twitter accounts, while making massive efforts to avoid any kind of more reliable information, how could you "understand" that?
Though it would explain a lot of your other posts...
Trump has spoken to the Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba this morning, and says that the country has treated the US "very poorly on trade".
"They don’t take our cars, but we take MILLIONS of theirs. Likewise Agriculture, and many other '"things"."
He does know that Japan drives on the left - and US car manufacturers can't be arsed to make them?
Lefthand/righthand drive is irrelevant. Americans choose to buy Japanese cars. In no way is that Japan treating the US "very poorly" on car trade. If you are going to blame anyone at al, then it's the Americans who are buying those cars.
And the fact that while Japan makes small and medium size cars that Americans want to buy, America make big cars that are impractical (and so undesirable) outside of the USA.
According to Claude (sorry) Japanese companies make 3-4 million cars pa in the USA, and import 1-1.5 million.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
Which part is not reality?
The bits you made up..
There were not more than three points there, and none remotely controversial. If you aren't even able to contradict even one successfully, that tells its own story on the strength of your argument.
"China has been on a decades long mission to undermine the economy" you wrote. And yet the truth is clearly the reverse.
Your entire idea that China is in a destructive war is wrong. The idea that they war on us simply by way of becoming dominant wouldn't be so.
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because that isn't what has happenend, it's Trump's phony justification.
Which is not even internally consistent anyway because he is trying to blame other nations for his policy, whilst also previously insisting they are just inherently a good idea in which case why blame anybody for it?
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
Mr Ackman acknowledged the Trump argument that the global trade system had "disadvantaged" the US.
But, he wrote, tariffs that Trump had imposed were "massive and disproportionate", and did not distinguish between American friends and enemies. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2lzjnj79rdo
Trump doesn't seem to believe America has friends, only subordinates. Other nations have no choice but to follow suit, but it grates when people like Ackman pretend they are shocked about Trump doing things he was pretty clear on (albeit the extent of his hatred for Canada was a bit of a surprise). People cannot present as intelligent and also then claim to be surprised by such things.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I avoid chicken as a rule, but you have just given me a further reason to do so.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
Which part is not reality?
The bits you made up..
There were not more than three points there, and none remotely controversial. If you aren't even able to contradict even one successfully, that tells its own story on the strength of your argument.
"China has been on a decades long mission to undermine the economy" you wrote. And yet the truth is clearly the reverse.
Your entire idea that China is in a destructive war is wrong. The idea that they war on us simply by way of becoming dominant wouldn't be so.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
China isn’t going to back down - I wonder when they start to sell their US treasury bonds
Selling US bonds is the problem to which Trump has no answer. Japan has already started. China would be an order of magnitude different though.
So what happens if China sells all its US bonds? The US has already sold them, so I can't see what effect it will have. Presumably there will be some effect on attempts to finance future debt with bonds - increased interest rates?
The price will drop like a stone if China floods the market with US bonds it holds.
The yield will rise in proportion (ie the effective interest rate).
Makes refinancing US deficit harder.
Doesn't China just have to stop buying them ?
Quite: I don't think the Chinese government would actually sell bonds, I think they would simply cease to buy new ones. That could still - one would think - have a significant impact on Treasury yields.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
You should see their tips on what to do with lamb.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
Two questions for you:
The article was written by Ben Hurst,Primrose Freestone, University of Leicester for Wales on Line so where is the problem ?
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
China isn’t going to back down - I wonder when they start to sell their US treasury bonds
Selling US bonds is the problem to which Trump has no answer. Japan has already started. China would be an order of magnitude different though.
So what happens if China sells all its US bonds? The US has already sold them, so I can't see what effect it will have. Presumably there will be some effect on attempts to finance future debt with bonds - increased interest rates?
The price will drop like a stone if China floods the market with US bonds it holds.
The yield will rise in proportion (ie the effective interest rate).
Makes refinancing US deficit harder.
Doesn't China just have to stop buying them ?
Quite: I don't think the Chinese government would actually sell bonds, I think they would simply cease to buy new ones. That could still - one would think - have a significant impact on Treasury yields.
I thought the Chinese had been diversifying away from US Dollar assets ever since the Ukraine war kicked off sanctions.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
You should see their tips on what to do with lamb.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it slightly odd that that wasn't already the situation beforehand.
As politely as possible, no you haven't understood it right The new tariffs imposed by Trump on a country are:
Tariff for country=(X-M)/(E*P*M) and then rounded, where
* X=US exports into the country * M=That country's imports into the US * E=Elasticity of demand (how much demand changes with price) * P=Pass thru (how much of the change is added to the US price)
There are many ways of describing this equation (some of which are AAARGH) but what it isn't is the tariff in the opposite direction
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I avoid chicken as a rule, but you have just given me a further reason to do so.
A pretty flimsy one though; the odds of being harmed by eating chicken in this country are very low.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
If I've understood it right, most of Trump's tariffs have been set at a level which is the same as tariffs in the opposite direction. Why is that such a bad thing? Isn't it slightly odd that that wasn't already the situation beforehand.
That's not correct.
The EU's average tariff on products from the US is about 2%, and he's set tariffs at about 30%.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
Hardly great for Labour's brand to now only be at 29% ie Brown 2010 levels a mere year after winning a GE landslide and just a point ahead of Reform. The Tories 23% isn't great either but after a landslide defeat they are at least treading water on the 23.7% Rishi got
50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off
A police officer driving a van which followed two teenagers before they both died in an e-bike crash in Cardiff will not face criminal charges, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has said. The CPS said there was insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
I always go to “Chicken Online” for whale washing tips.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
Isn't the MOAB built to shred troops and trees not bunkers?
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
It doesn't really work though does it. Other than deploying nukes, high level bombing hasn't really ever worked.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
Isn't the MOAB built to shred troops and trees not bunkers?
The MOAB, or GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast, is the US military's largest non-nuclear bomb, also known as the "Mother of All Bombs," designed to damage underground facilities and tunnels with a massive blast wave.
50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off
I think the markets haven’t priced that in . Effectively a 104% tariff on Chinese imports into the USA . If an agreement isn’t reached before Thursday then I expect the markets to go into a complete meltdown .
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
Diego Garcia is out of range of Houthi Drones ... for now.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
Isn't the MOAB built to shred troops and trees not bunkers?
The MOAB, or GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast, is the US military's largest non-nuclear bomb, also known as the "Mother of All Bombs," designed to damage underground facilities and tunnels with a massive blast wave.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
Astonishing chart from Goldman showing the slump in overseas passengers arriving to the US. Presumably not largely because of the tariffs but because of the horror stories about random incarceration.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
No, it wouldn't. It would serve to complicate the current clusterfuck, considerably.
Obviously we're a long way from this. But what happens to the global economy if Taiwan and Beijing reach a rapprochement where they form say an inter- country union like the EU with common customs and tariffs treating both the People's republic and the republic of China as a single entity ?
Oh, before Xi became Chinese Premier, that seemed very much like the path they were on. The PRC lovebombed Taiwan, direct plane services started, and Taipei allowed China to own one of the largest cellphone companies in the country. (Which, as a fund manager, I completely lucked out on!)
But under Xi, China has moved from the carrot to the stick, and in response Taiwan has ramped up defence spending and independence rhetoric.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I always go to “Wales Online” for chicken washing tips.
Two questions for you:
The article was written by Ben Hurst,Primrose Freestone, University of Leicester for Wales on Line so where is the problem ?
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
As long as you use soap and wash it for at least twenty seconds. Remember Covid.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I avoid chicken as a rule, but you have just given me a further reason to do so.
A pretty flimsy one though; the odds of being harmed by eating chicken in this country are very low.
I used to look after chickens when we had them when I was a child, I now look after sheep - but i’m convinced after so much exposure to Campylobacteriosis I’m now immune. I havn’t had bad stomach cramps for years.
I have had plenty of blisters on hands and arms this year I put down as normal for regular sheep handling - and boils on back of my head probably too.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
It doesn't really work though does it. Other than deploying nukes, high level bombing hasn't really ever worked.
What changed was precision munitions.
From WWI to Vietnam, you could drop thousands of bombs and not kill a single target*. The invention of high precision smart weapons changed that. Right towards the end of America's involvement in Vietnam, they sent bombers armed with early laser guided bombs against a bridge that had survived years of bombardment. The first two bombs hit the ends of a span, jumping the whole thing into the air. Where it got hit by a third.
During the First Gulf War, the attack of the "AT&T" building was the wake up call to the world. The roof was covered in heavy concrete. So the first bomb was fused to blow a hole in it. The second bomb, a few seconds later dropped through the hole. It had a floor counting fuse - each multi-thousand G shock of hitting and passing through an internal floor was counted. So it detonated in the heart of the building and collapsed it completely.
By the Second Gulf War, it was quite clear that if your opponent has smart weapons and air superiority, you can barely fight, let alone win. A single fighter can guarantee to destroy more targets than a 1,000 bomber raid in WWII could hope to do.
*A little known story is that of the OBOE equipped Mosquito bombers at the end of WWII. Which started achieving accuracies that meant a single 4000lb bomb dropped from 30,000 feet would have a probability of taking out a target exceeding 30%. Using "playing card" formations - a tight group of bombers dropping together to create a shotgun effect. These missions were achieving 80% rates of destruction of small targets.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
I have a pet theory, which I grow more confident about as time passes, that essentially nobody at the top of any organisation you care to name, in any field, is all that competent, but that the systems/processes/rules that exist guide them towards good decisions and outcomes. i.e. Laws, regulation, customs, procedures and so on idiot-proof society.
The flip-side of that is that if you dispense with rules and let people use their judgement or God forbid it even let "common sense" rip then you get bad outcomes.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
Isn't the MOAB built to shred troops and trees not bunkers?
The MOAB, or GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast, is the US military's largest non-nuclear bomb, also known as the "Mother of All Bombs," designed to damage underground facilities and tunnels with a massive blast wave.
I think people are thinking of the GBU-57. Which was designed as follows - "What is the maximum size/weight that a B-2 can carry two of, to a decent range? Then spend that mass on building the deepest penetrating bomb possible."
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
It doesn't really work though does it. Other than deploying nukes, high level bombing hasn't really ever worked.
What changed was precision munitions.
From WWI to Vietnam, you could drop thousands of bombs and not kill a single target*. The invention of high precision smart weapons changed that. Right towards the end of America's involvement in Vietnam, they sent bombers armed with early laser guided bombs against a bridge that had survived years of bombardment. The first two bombs hit the ends of a span, jumping the whole thing into the air. Where it got hit by a third.
During the First Gulf War, the attack of the "AT&T" building was the wake up call to the world. The roof was covered in heavy concrete. So the first bomb was fused to blow a hole in it. The second bomb, a few seconds later dropped through the hole. It had a floor counting fuse - each multi-thousand G shock of hitting and passing through an internal floor was counted. So it detonated in the heart of the building and collapsed it completely.
By the Second Gulf War, it was quite clear that if your opponent has smart weapons and air superiority, you can barely fight, let alone win. A single fighter can guarantee to destroy more targets than a 1,000 bomber raid in WWII could hope to do.
*A little known story is that of the OBOE equipped Mosquito bombers at the end of WWII. Which started achieving accuracies that meant a single 4000lb bomb dropped from 30,000 feet would have a probability of taking out a target exceeding 30%. Using "playing card" formations - a tight group of bombers dropping together to create a shotgun effect. These missions were achieving 80% rates of destruction of small targets.
Plus precision munitions, plus glide bombs, plus guided bombs.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
According to a D.C. source with knowledge of the plan that’s still being developed, Trump has commandeered Saturday, June 14—the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Army and, as it happens, Trump’s 79th birthday—for his military parade. It would stretch almost four miles from the Pentagon in Arlington to the White House, according to the source, who stressed that local officials are just learning of it.
Hard to know. There are 7 on view from satellite images, plus hangars that hold at least 6 more. Perhaps not all, but certainly the majority of those that are operational.
There are like 50 aren't there? Seems on checking just 20.
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
Depends what the purpose is. If you want to drop the Mother of All Bombs (MOABs) to smash into deep bunkers, then each B2 can carry two.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
It doesn't really work though does it. Other than deploying nukes, high level bombing hasn't really ever worked.
What changed was precision munitions.
From WWI to Vietnam, you could drop thousands of bombs and not kill a single target*. The invention of high precision smart weapons changed that. Right towards the end of America's involvement in Vietnam, they sent bombers armed with early laser guided bombs against a bridge that had survived years of bombardment. The first two bombs hit the ends of a span, jumping the whole thing into the air. Where it got hit by a third.
During the First Gulf War, the attack of the "AT&T" building was the wake up call to the world. The roof was covered in heavy concrete. So the first bomb was fused to blow a hole in it. The second bomb, a few seconds later dropped through the hole. It had a floor counting fuse - each multi-thousand G shock of hitting and passing through an internal floor was counted. So it detonated in the heart of the building and collapsed it completely.
By the Second Gulf War, it was quite clear that if your opponent has smart weapons and air superiority, you can barely fight, let alone win. A single fighter can guarantee to destroy more targets than a 1,000 bomber raid in WWII could hope to do.
*A little known story is that of the OBOE equipped Mosquito bombers at the end of WWII. Which started achieving accuracies that meant a single 4000lb bomb dropped from 30,000 feet would have a probability of taking out a target exceeding 30%. Using "playing card" formations - a tight group of bombers dropping together to create a shotgun effect. These missions were achieving 80% rates of destruction of small targets.
Plus precision munitions, plus glide bombs, plus guided bombs.
Which are all variants on the theme of precision munitions. Which is an old idea
50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off
I think the markets haven’t priced that in . Effectively a 104% tariff on Chinese imports into the USA . If an agreement isn’t reached before Thursday then I expect the markets to go into a complete meltdown .
Not that Trump would care, he is going to impose his uber protectionist agenda whatever the cost
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
Good idea to be fair
Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.
You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.
And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I avoid chicken as a rule, but you have just given me a further reason to do so.
A pretty flimsy one though; the odds of being harmed by eating chicken in this country are very low.
I used to look after chickens when we had them when I was a child, I now look after sheep - but i’m convinced after so much exposure to Campylobacteriosis I’m now immune. I havn’t had bad stomach cramps for years.
I have had plenty of blisters on hands and arms this year I put down as normal for regular sheep handling - and boils on back of my head probably too.
Apologies if this is putting you off your dinner.
- "What became of your lamb, Clarice?" - "They killed him."
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
Good idea to be fair
Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.
You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.
And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.
And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
And yet some people are terrified that US chicken could undercut prices and flood the market.
50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off
I think the markets haven’t priced that in . Effectively a 104% tariff on Chinese imports into the USA . If an agreement isn’t reached before Thursday then I expect the markets to go into a complete meltdown .
Not that Trump would care, he is going to impose his uber protectionist agenda whatever the cost
They are both going to get to tariff levels where trade ceases altogether aren't they. Who is more dependent upon the other? I have a feeling this hurts America more. Of course there is always the possibility they trade with one another via a 3rd party.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
Good idea to be fair
Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.
You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.
And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.
And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
And yet some people are terrified that US chicken could undercut prices and flood the market.
No, they're a bit thick and don't understand economics.
I even doubt they realise that actual goods are being exchanged so that while country X might transfer money to country Y, country Y is transferring goods to country X.
I'd like to see them asked if they think there should be zero differences in trade and financial flows between individual US states.
Or perhaps whether they'd like to get rid of money and return to a barter system.
50% extra potential tariffs on China Trump says unless it cancels its retaliatory tariffs. Looks like the poster earlier who suggested a deal with Beijing was on the cards is a long way off
I think the markets haven’t priced that in . Effectively a 104% tariff on Chinese imports into the USA . If an agreement isn’t reached before Thursday then I expect the markets to go into a complete meltdown .
Not that Trump would care, he is going to impose his uber protectionist agenda whatever the cost
They are both going to get to tariff levels where trade ceases altogether aren't they. Who is more dependent upon the other? I have a feeling this hurts America more. Of course there is always the possibility they trade with one another via a 3rd party.
China does export a lot to the US but will try and replace that elsewhere, Trump will hope US production increases to offset the cheap Chinese imports
Currently, almost a year's worth of gains on the DJIA has been wiped out in an extraordinary act of "self harm" (there are many other ways to describe what has happened of course).
Yet there do seem to be some more positive straws in the wind for us on fuel prices which look set to come down and perhaps interest rates too later in the year.
I'm far from convinced this is the end of globalisation as some seem to think and even those opposed to its impacts (not without justification) have yet to fully enunciate an alternative economic model.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
I do parboil whole chicken for about 5 minutes before roasting. It removes an unpleasant scum. It also helps cook the bird more evenly as both the outside and the inside of the carcass are warmed before putting in the oven.
Good idea to be fair
Seems like a bit of a faff tbh. I've never noticed any 'scum' with my roast chicken.
You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.
And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.
And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
Interesting from The Musing Individualist
Don’t Eat Chicken, Shop at Waitrose, Donate to Animal Charities Eat lamb instead and don't mock vegans: How to be a conscientious carnivore
Fox host: "We are years and years into other countries making our narcotics. The drugs we need to deal with, on a day to day basis, to stay alive. Don't we wanna do that in this country?"
Not sure she knows what narcotics as a term means these days.
Fox host: "We are years and years into other countries making our narcotics. The drugs we need to deal with, on a day to day basis, to stay alive. Don't we wanna do that in this country?"
Not sure she knows what narcotics as a term means these days.
That Fox News are, en masse, hooked on narcotics, explains a lot.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.
I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Yes but you wash chicken in the sink
Where would you suggest one should wash it?
Don't wash it - cook it correctly
I like you a lot BigG, but which part of the fact that cooking does absolutely nothing to remove chemical contamination from BPAs in (for example) film packaging do you not understand.
Neither does washing, in all likelihood.
It does a lot more than not washing, as for obvious reasons it will be on the surface.
This is an extract from Wales on line re washing chicken
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
Why are you posting this same tripe again? It hasn't become any more relevant because it's longer.
I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.
So Trumps allowed to hammer China but they’re not allowed to respond . If the Chinese don’t back down or some agreement is reached then the markets are going to completely implode .
I never thought I would be on the side of China, but I hope they fuck Trumpistan until the blood runs out of Trump’s arse.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Thank goodness there is one country willing & able to face the bully down. I'm cheering them on (for the time being at least).
China has been on a decades long mission to undermine our economy as well as America's. To do this they have employed every tactic from sharp business practice to outright theft. It is high time they were faced down, and I am glad that someone has come in with the balls to do it.
The UK actually trades very little with China, but as Malmesbury was explaining, our tariff relationship is completely unbalanced due to the Foreign Office's fear of 'upsetting' them. Well, bugger them.
Some evocative words. Surely though China is simply doing what's best for its people. (Perhaps perceived through an odd glass)
There are countless examples of China not really playing by the rules, but many where they have.
China may or may not be doing what is best for its own people (though perhaps the advancement of its own state power would be a more accurate phrase), but it is clearly not doing what is best for our people, or for Americans.
Therefore, whilst its own aggressive posture may be understandable, our pathetic, servile, demoralised acquiescence is not.
As you state it. The reality isn't as you state it.
Which part is not reality?
The bits you made up..
There were not more than three points there, and none remotely controversial. If you aren't even able to contradict even one successfully, that tells its own story on the strength of your argument.
"China has been on a decades long mission to undermine the economy" you wrote. And yet the truth is clearly the reverse.
Your entire idea that China is in a destructive war is wrong. The idea that they war on us simply by way of becoming dominant wouldn't be so.
Comments
2025: economy in toilet
(BTW, apparently it originates in Mexico.)
So what did Congress do a little while back ?
https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/p/house-quietly-ducks-trump-tariff
…an important thing you should know about the National Emergencies Act is that it’s a key way that Trump has imposed several of his tariffs, including the 20% tariffs on China and the (currently paused) 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico.
As I noted on Sunday, for those tariffs, Trump has invoked the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, a 1977 law that allows the president to regulate “importation or exportation” if it relates to a national emergency he’s declared under the National Emergencies Act. (Trump has declared a national emergency at the U.S.-Mexico border, which he then expanded to cover the “public health crisis of deaths due to the use of fentanyl and other illicit drugs” flowing in from Canada and China.)
But the National Emergencies Act also gives Congress a way to make sure a president isn’t just declaring national emergencies nilly-willy. Under the latest version of the law, the House and Senate can end a president’s national emergency by both passing a joint resolution — although, importantly, the president can simply veto the resolution. (This is what happened in 2019, when bipartisan majorities voted to end a border emergency Trump declared, but then Trump vetoed the resolution. Two-thirds votes in both chambers are required to override a veto.)
It’s not much, but it’s still something; in this case, it lays out a path for undoing Trump’s tariffs if enough lawmakers opposed them. Without the national emergency that undergirds them, the Canada/China/Mexico tariffs would evaporate.
The framers of the National Emergencies Act understood that a Congress controlled by the president’s party might be loath to hold a vote overturning their co-partisan’s national emergency, which is why the law guarantees that a joint resolution ending an emergency — no matter who introduces it — can get a vote within 18 “calendar days” of its introduction.
Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY) introduced a pair of resolutions on March 6 overturning the emergencies baked into Trump’s Canada and Mexico tariff orders. That means the 18-day clock is ticking…or, at least, it was until Tuesday’s rule resolution passed the House. Now that we know the background, let’s return to Section 4 of the rule resolution..
This language essentially means that the House will consider every day until the end of the year to be one long calendar day, at least for the purposes of the process described in the National Emergencies Act. And 18 calendar days can’t pass if you stop counting calendar days! Ergo, the House won’t be forced to vote on the emergency undergirding Trump’s tariffs, as it was on track to be…
I know you disagree
The back story of that is funny - it dates back to the 60s, when the unions (IIRC) were worried that component manufacture was heading over seas. So they lobbied for a tariff on components - and got it. And there it stayed. Bee a while since they made televisions in the UK....
But quite a few are.
It would serve to complicate the current clusterfuck, considerably.
Your entire idea that China is in a destructive war is wrong. The idea that they war on us simply by way of becoming dominant wouldn't be so.
Unless you get all your information exclusively from insane far right twitter accounts, while making massive efforts to avoid any kind of more reliable information, how could you "understand" that?
Though it would explain a lot of your other posts...
Which is not even internally consistent anyway because he is trying to blame other nations for his policy, whilst also previously insisting they are just inherently a good idea in which case why blame anybody for it?
So good.
https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/1908576383292395753
Why chicken really shouldn’t be washed
Traces of feathers, slime or dirt might have necessitated washing chicken half a century ago. But nowadays, poultry is pre-washed and ready to cook when you buy it.
Still, some people seem to think you should wash your chicken in order to remove the dangerous microorganisms raw meat contains. While it’s true chicken does contain harmful microorganisms, washing prior to cooking doesn’t remove them.
Chicken in particular naturally carries Salmonella and Campylobacter. These can cause very severe illness, with infections causing symptoms such as fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea and possibly even septicaemia (blood infection).
Children, elderly people, pregnant women and those with other health conditions or poor immune systems are most at risk of illness from these bacteria. But even in healthy people, Salmonella and Campylobacter infections can lead to hospitalisations and death.
Washing chicken prior to cooking does not eliminate all the germs within a chicken. At most, it may only remove the bacteria on the surface. But this practice actually makes the overall infection risk from raw chicken significantly worse, as it may potentially cause the pathogens washed off the chicken skin to spread throughout your kitchen.
When you put raw chicken under the tap, the bacteria on the skin move into the water stream. This will then be splashed into your sink – and potentially your surrounding counters, cupboards and dish rack. This water spray can travel up to 80cm – the length of the average adult arm. This makes cross-contamination pretty likely, especially if these water droplets have landed elsewhere in your kitchen. It may even contaminate other uncooked foods you later place in the same sink.
Even if you rinse the sink with water after washing the chicken, this may not be sufficient to remove all the pathogenic bacteria that have become attached.
It’s also worth noting that soaking poultry in a brine of water and vinegar or citrus juice does not make it more hygienic. Research has shown that Salmonella weren’t killed following soaking chicken in vinegar or citrus juice for more than five minutes. Other research shows that Campylobacter numbers may be reduced following a marinade in vinegar or lemon juice, but it takes 24 hours of soaking.
But, he wrote, tariffs that Trump had imposed were "massive and disproportionate", and did not distinguish between American friends and enemies.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2lzjnj79rdo
Trump doesn't seem to believe America has friends, only subordinates. Other nations have no choice but to follow suit, but it grates when people like Ackman pretend they are shocked about Trump doing things he was pretty clear on (albeit the extent of his hatred for Canada was a bit of a surprise). People cannot present as intelligent and also then claim to be surprised by such things.
The article was written by Ben Hurst,Primrose Freestone, University of Leicester for Wales on Line so where is the problem ?
Do you agree with the content ?
Tariff for country=(X-M)/(E*P*M) and then rounded, where
* X=US exports into the country
* M=That country's imports into the US
* E=Elasticity of demand (how much demand changes with price)
* P=Pass thru (how much of the change is added to the US price)
There are many ways of describing this equation (some of which are AAARGH) but what it isn't is the tariff in the opposite direction
See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j04IAbWCszg
Whatever, no war works with just B2 bombers.
The EU's average tariff on products from the US is about 2%, and he's set tariffs at about 30%.
Ditto if you want to smash Iran's hydrocarbon's industry.
https://news.sky.com/video/boris-johnson-attacked-by-ostrich-while-at-a-safari-park-with-his-family-13343984
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/hubris-is-off-the-charts-trump-marktes-crash-economy-recession-golf-florida?r=1emko&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
@Birdyword
Astonishing chart from Goldman showing the slump in overseas passengers arriving to the US. Presumably not largely because of the tariffs but because of the horror stories about random incarceration.
https://x.com/Birdyword/status/1909066198785913244
But under Xi, China has moved from the carrot to the stick, and in response Taiwan has ramped up defence spending and independence rhetoric.
"On 6 October 1981, Field Marshal Anwar Sadat, the 3rd President of Egypt, was assassinated during the annual victory parade held in Cairo..."
Aaron Rupar
@atrupar
·
5m
Rep. Roger Williams: "I think he's right. We shouldn't have trade differences with anybody."
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1909302524772769831
I have had plenty of blisters on hands and arms this year I put down as normal for regular sheep handling - and boils on back of my head probably too.
Apologies if this is putting you off your dinner.
From WWI to Vietnam, you could drop thousands of bombs and not kill a single target*. The invention of high precision smart weapons changed that. Right towards the end of America's involvement in Vietnam, they sent bombers armed with early laser guided bombs against a bridge that had survived years of bombardment. The first two bombs hit the ends of a span, jumping the whole thing into the air. Where it got hit by a third.
During the First Gulf War, the attack of the "AT&T" building was the wake up call to the world. The roof was covered in heavy concrete. So the first bomb was fused to blow a hole in it. The second bomb, a few seconds later dropped through the hole. It had a floor counting fuse - each multi-thousand G shock of hitting and passing through an internal floor was counted. So it detonated in the heart of the building and collapsed it completely.
By the Second Gulf War, it was quite clear that if your opponent has smart weapons and air superiority, you can barely fight, let alone win. A single fighter can guarantee to destroy more targets than a 1,000 bomber raid in WWII could hope to do.
*A little known story is that of the OBOE equipped Mosquito bombers at the end of WWII. Which started achieving accuracies that meant a single 4000lb bomb dropped from 30,000 feet would have a probability of taking out a target exceeding 30%. Using "playing card" formations - a tight group of bombers dropping together to create a shotgun effect. These missions were achieving 80% rates of destruction of small targets.
https://www.worldhistory.org/image/18902/adolf-hitler-in-paris/
Just been to inspect the Ordnance Survey Benchmark on a neighbours house 2 down on the other side of the road.
One down, ~499999 to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWxXyR4ifbk
The flip-side of that is that if you dispense with rules and let people use their judgement or God forbid it even let "common sense" rip then you get bad outcomes.
Somehow the addition of the armoured vehicles gives it a different tone to our own parades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FL-boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_unmanned_aerial_vehicles_of_World_War_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-N-2_Bat
and many more
Yesterday we tried a Waitrose stock-brined chicken (https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/no1-british-free-range-whole-stock-brined-chicken).
You roast it in the bag for an hour then 20-30mins outside the bag. It was excellent, tender and flavoursome. No question of spreading any contamination pre-cooking with that one.
And at £4.95 for the standard brined chicken or £9.95 for the "No. 1" free-range version, it's great value. We had roast chicken for the two of us, a cold chicken sandwich each today, enough meat in the freezer for a biryani for two, plus a litre of chicken stock from the bones.
And no chlorine wash or growth hormones.
- "They killed him."
I even doubt they realise that actual goods are being exchanged so that while country X might transfer money to country Y, country Y is transferring goods to country X.
I'd like to see them asked if they think there should be zero differences in trade and financial flows between individual US states.
Or perhaps whether they'd like to get rid of money and return to a barter system.
Currently, almost a year's worth of gains on the DJIA has been wiped out in an extraordinary act of "self harm" (there are many other ways to describe what has happened of course).
Yet there do seem to be some more positive straws in the wind for us on fuel prices which look set to come down and perhaps interest rates too later in the year.
I'm far from convinced this is the end of globalisation as some seem to think and even those opposed to its impacts (not without justification) have yet to fully enunciate an alternative economic model.
Don’t Eat Chicken, Shop at Waitrose, Donate to Animal Charities
Eat lamb instead and don't mock vegans: How to be a conscientious carnivore
https://themusingindividualist.substack.com/p/dont-eat-chicken-shop-at-waitrose
Not sure she knows what narcotics as a term means these days.
Things you learn on PB!
https://x.com/meridithmcgraw/status/1909292610738364636
Scott Chilton leaves post at Hampshire and Isle of Wight Constabulary with immediate effect after notice from IOPC
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/07/chief-constable-retires-after-being-told-of-investigation-into-alleged-workplace-relationships
I am not washing my chicken to remove bacteria. I don't know how to tell you this in a way that you'll understand.