Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Support for rearmament continues to grow – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,358
edited 7:28AM in General
Support for rearmament continues to grow – politicalbetting.com

The latest polling from Ipsos brings some good news for Sir Keir Starmer with his ratings improving but the most important polling is showing support for rearmament even if it means higher taxes and/or cuts to public services.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 547
    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,868
    edited 7:40AM
    This is brilliant:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io_Lt1KYU9w

    (Should be called 'Lewis Hamilton's Day Off'.)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,429
    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    With the US out of European collective defence it is logical for a predatory state like Russia to test the vulnerabilities of the newly exposed neighbouring countries. There’s a whole phalanx of non-nuclear countries from Russia’s Western border all the way to Alsace.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    @faisalislam

    So.

    On exact SAME DAY that President Trump appeared on White House lawn with Musk and a fleet of Teslas and bought one to support him, after halving of stock price….

    Tesla itself wrote unsigned letter to US Trade Rep warning of exporters “inherently exposed” in trade war

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1900451347972915258
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    edited 7:55AM
    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,397
    edited 7:55AM
    "The latest polling from Ipsos brings some good news for Sir Keir Starmer with his ratings improving"

    Trump has been good for incumbents worldwide, most spectacularly the Canadian Liberals but also Macron, Zelensky and Starmer.

    You often see a rally-to-the-flag effect from enemies.

    This must be the first time in history that it has come from our closest ally.

    In this, as so often,Trump is completely and dismally unique.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 547

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047
    Positive. I suspect much of the increase is down to the fact Labour are doing it, and thus carrying along some of their base, with Conservatives supporting the same.

    Public opinion can be led.
  • The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,736
    edited 8:06AM
    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    Reform voters are keen for increased defence spending, but also have the lowest appetite for actually using the armed forces to defend British interests and allies. Reminds me of a few PB posters tbh.

    A deterrent is a waste of money unless it's plausible that we would actually use it. No evidence of that so far - we'll just end up with a bunch of frigates impotently observing cable cutters buzz around the Baltic.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,770
    edited 8:06AM
    Good morning

    Starmer has done well on Ukraine but his domestic agenda is open to questions

    Despite Reforms internal fued the polls are not picking up much of a decline as some hoped and Lord Ashcrofts poll on Frodsham election puts Reform as favourite

    By any measure logic would say Reform are in trouble but certainly not yet

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/03/runcorn-by-election-reform-uk-in-pole-position/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,001
    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam

    So.

    On exact SAME DAY that President Trump appeared on White House lawn with Musk and a fleet of Teslas and bought one to support him, after halving of stock price….

    Tesla itself wrote unsigned letter to US Trade Rep warning of exporters “inherently exposed” in trade war

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1900451347972915258

    That was surely just Elon and Don remaking Dumb and Dumber. Maybe they could call it “Mad & Madder”.


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam

    So.

    On exact SAME DAY that President Trump appeared on White House lawn with Musk and a fleet of Teslas and bought one to support him, after halving of stock price….

    Tesla itself wrote unsigned letter to US Trade Rep warning of exporters “inherently exposed” in trade war

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1900451347972915258

    That was surely just Elon and Don remaking Dumb and Dumber. Maybe they could call it “Mad & Madder”.


    It was actually a remake of this

    https://x.com/BladeoftheS/status/1899815985009365202
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,001
    The world is getting more dangerous. Failing to rearm wouldn't make it less so.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,155
    Harsh criticism of Merz in the Spiegel this morning:

    https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/friedrich-merz-in-der-union-wachsen-die-zweifel-am-knazlerkandidaten-a-180c5819-56ae-4ea1-9987-562a03a469fb

    On Tuesday, the Bundestag will vote on Merz's multi-billion dollar package. He needs a two-thirds majority because it involves changes to the Basic Law, so he's dependent on the votes of the Greens – whom he and CSU leader Markus Söder strongly opposed during the election campaign. It's a complicated operation that requires considerable preparation and tact. Merz has shown little of either so far.

    and

    It remains to be seen whether he will succeed in winning over the Greens. But even if an agreement were ultimately reached, the CDU/CSU, SPD, and Greens would only have 31 votes over the required majority in the old Bundestag. That's assuming all representatives from the three parties are present and vote yes. Can Merz count on that?

    ...
    The Green Party alone has 46 members who are no longer members of the new Bundestag. The SPD has 95, and the CDU/CSU has 48. How can the parliamentary group leadership put them under pressure now? Lure them with a position? In the final weeks of their term as members of parliament, they are more free and independent than ever before. For Merz, this is a huge problem.

    ...

    The reckoning will come on Tuesday. If the CDU/CSU and SPD fail to pass their debt package in the Bundestag, the future of Europe could be at stake. If Germany fails to lead the way, the consequences for the continent are unforeseeable.

    ...
    The question is whether he himself has fully realized what is at stake for him and the country these days. Many in the Union have doubts about this.
    They are watching with growing concern as Merz prepares for the Bundestag vote with a careless lack of concern. Internal complaints are that the party leader makes many decisions alone, surrounds himself with yes-men, rarely asks for advice, and often enters crucial discussions with great self-confidence but poorly prepared.


    and so on...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    Reform voters are keen for increased defence spending, but also have the lowest appetite for actually using the armed forces to defend British interests and allies. Reminds me of a few PB posters tbh.

    A deterrent is a waste of money unless it's plausible that we would actually use it. No evidence of that so far - we'll just end up with a bunch of frigates impotently observing cable cutters buzz around the Baltic.
    I suspect Reformers are conflicted as to who actually is the enemy.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,397
    Nigelb said:
    ... and Reeves predictably blames everyone except herself.

    Totally fucking useless.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672
    Nigelb said:
    And despite Labour's reasonable good foreign affairs policies and overall approach this is what matters. GDP per capita is probably going to drop by up to 0.5% this quarter, people are going to feel poorer, especially in the middle where they won't have the benefit of inflation protected benefits or minimum wage rises and the working poor who are going to find job security at a real premium from 2025-2028 while companies claw back the NI rise.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,600
    FPT ... as it was such an interesting breakfast time discussion ... "Quote" rel="Carnyx">

    On the place names discussion:

    I read somewhere that in the 1700s and 1800s the Ordnance Survey would send surveyors out all over the country. They would arrive in a small hamlet and ask to see a senior personage - say, a vicar, or head farmer, or the lord of the manor. They would then ask that person what each place in the area was called. The surveyors would then try to spell what they were told, as many of the names had never been written down, or not for centuries.

    Except the vicar might be an incomer himself, and not know the proper name and spelling. And the lord might call places different names to the people who lived there.

    The 19th century OS Name Books are now on line for Scotland, at any rate. Listing which place was called what and who the authority/bloke down the bottom of the field was.

    https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/about

    Edit: one at random from a popular valley walk in the Pentlands (Howlet = owlet).

    https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/midlothian-os-name-books-1852-1853/midlothian-volume-33/4
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    I would have thought they’d have it at the same time as the local elections .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Though a plurality not a majority support increased defence spending paid for by tax rises and spending cuts. The risk for Reeves is that some of those opposed to cuts in welfare and the civil service and agencies will be on the left and would then go Green in response
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,001

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    Its all extremely obvious about going after anyone opposing or just blocking you, but its been normalised and widely supported.

    Its why sonething like January 6th was so devastating - once stuff like that is in effect declared acceptable by a large chunck of voters, theres no going back.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    @faisalislam
    Meanwhile, in the Canadian province of British Columbia they just specifically pulled all Tesla models from their electric car and renewables subsidies worth thousands of dollars… in 2023 half of EVs in BC were Teslas, mostly Vancouver…
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    If the domestic option was viable then they wouldn't be importing in the first place. Buying American will also result in consumers spending more money.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    There has to first be a peace deal to enforce between Russia and Ukraine and second Russia would have to accept British peacekeeping troops none of which applies at present
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    UK food and drink exports to the EU down 34% since Brexit

    Food and Drink Federation say businesses are struggling to deal with added ‘complexity and bureaucracy’

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/13/uk-food-and-drink-exports-to-the-eu-down-34-since-brexit
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    Says the man who bribes voters to register.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    kle4 said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    Its all extremely obvious about going after anyone opposing or just blocking you, but its been normalised and widely supported.

    Its why sonething like January 6th was so devastating - once stuff like that is in effect declared acceptable by a large chunck of voters, theres no going back.
    Yup.

    I've rarely felt more glad to be on this side of the Atlantic.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,312
    edited 8:32AM
    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Interesting that the LDs have nearly doubled in that by election poll and challenging the Tories for 3rd since the GE. You would expect them to be squeezed to nothing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    Back in the day when supply of components were locally sourced this idea would have had a better chance of working. If multiple components from China are tariffed at 20% that will affect the retail price. What do you think the imported component value percentage of say a Maytag washing machine might be? I would guess at between 50% and 70%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    So you are economically illiterate, then.

    Even where it's possible to substitute domestic production, the Trump tariffs increase raw materials input costs, which will raise prices.
    And the reduced price competition from imported gooods means that domestic producers have more scope to increase their prices.

    And of course there is a huge range of consumer products - notably affordable clothing - where there is no real domestic production. Buying American can mean paying several times the imported price - and for most goods, domestic production barely exists.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    nico67 said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    I would have thought they’d have it at the same time as the local elections .
    So would I, but I don't know if there is a local election there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    From the ISW link upthread:
    ..Russian Presidential Aide and former Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev claimed in an interview with Russian national security-focused magazine National Defense published on March 13 that NATO "traditionally" uses threats as its main instrument in interstate relations and that NATO's "European wing" is continuing its policy on "blocking" Russia in the Baltic region. Patrushev claimed that the United Kingdom (UK) is "orchestrating" NATO's "aggravation of the situation" as part of efforts to disrupt negotiations on Ukraine and Russian and American attempts to normalize their bilateral relations. Patrushev also claimed that the Finnish population, unlike Finnish authorities, is friendly to Russia and that the UK has approved Finnish authorities to "do everything to deprive their country [Finland] of its sovereignty." Patrushev threateningly claimed that the Gulf of Finland has a historical "geographic affiliation with Russia" and that "it should not be forgotten that Finland was part of the Russian Empire." Patrushev claimed that the Russian Empire "respected" and "preserved" the Finnish people and language in the Grand Duchy of Finland. Patrushev appeared to try to compare Russia's current war against Ukraine to the Soviet-Finnish Winter War in 1939–1940. Patrushev claimed that Finnish attempts to seize Soviet lands and "actively militarize" created a threat to the USSR and that Finland was "indiscriminately exterminating" the Slavic population in Karelia. Patrushev claimed that the West is "again turning [Finland] into a springboard" for aggression against Russia. The Kremlin has used similar false narratives about the Ukrainian government's discrimination of Russian-speaking minorities in Ukraine..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    HYUFD said:

    Though a plurality not a majority support increased defence spending paid for by tax rises and spending cuts. The risk for Reeves is that some of those opposed to cuts in welfare and the civil service and agencies will be on the left and would then go Green in response

    Yes - afaics parts of the Green Party are hanging on to their "disarm in the face of armed threats" position.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,900
    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Just as new council tax and water bills are being paid and the impact of the budget on businesses.

    Lots of negatives.

    Few positives. Reintroducing beavers seems to be the main one.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
    Former shadow chancellor Ed Balls says plans to cut disability benefits ‘won’t work’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/13/former-shadow-chancellor-ed-balls-says-plans-to-cut-disability-benefits-wont-work
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    edited 8:46AM
    MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    I would have thought they’d have it at the same time as the local elections .
    So would I, but I don't know if there is a local election there.
    Politically Labour want the by election not as a stand alone event . Labour and the Tories are both likely to do badly in the local elections so the former would prefer the headlines to not be just about them .

    Labour need some tactical voting by the Lib Dem’s and Greens and they need to go after Reform on their Putin admiration .
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    Nigelb said:

    Former shadow chancellor Ed Balls says plans to cut disability benefits ‘won’t work’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/13/former-shadow-chancellor-ed-balls-says-plans-to-cut-disability-benefits-wont-work

    The way this Government has sold the idea also looks cruel.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    He's also a devotee of people like Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand from his younger days, so there are all sorts of wild and impractical fragments that could have worked their way into his thinking.

    Of those I only know Asimov fairly well, and he has all sorts of half developed nostrums and dreams he wrote about speculatively.

    I have yet to see the idea of a single selected-by-computer voter in the proposals of DOGE, however.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,211
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:
    ... and Reeves predictably blames everyone except herself.

    Totally fucking useless.
    Reeves remains the weak link of the government. We will see this again soon in the inevitable fallout from the March statement. She is not a strong messenger for the government. Not deft enough or capable of building a narrative. Starmer should get rid, but I fear he won’t.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,274
    Nigelb said:

    Former shadow chancellor Ed Balls says plans to cut disability benefits ‘won’t work’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/13/former-shadow-chancellor-ed-balls-says-plans-to-cut-disability-benefits-wont-work

    Has he suggested what will work ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193
    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    He's also a devotee of people like Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand from his younger days, so there are all sorts of wild and impractical fragments that could have worked their way into his thinking.

    Of those I only know Asimov fairly well, ..
    Something of a woke lib compared to the other two.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Just as new council tax and water bills are being paid and the impact of the budget on businesses.

    Lots of negatives.

    Few positives. Reintroducing beavers seems to be the main one.
    Big increase in minimum wage, also pensions, and whatever else is coming in on April 1st.

    Plus workers rights, rental bill coming down the track very soon, and others.

    There's plenty total about, if they get a media strategy and some self-confidence.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,657
    edited 8:48AM
    Kremlin told U.S. it didn't want Trump's Ukraine-Russia envoy at peace talks

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-urkaine-war-kremlin-keith-kellogg-special-envoy-barred-talks-rcna195981

    Kellogg out.

    Now Dan Hodges is tweeting Times saying that Witkoff is out too.

    Putin pulling all the strings now.


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553

    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "

    Rutte hasn't had a good war. He's been a rabbit in the headlights since 1/20/25. One can't help thinking Baldy Ben would have been a much better option.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,910
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    So you are economically illiterate, then.

    Even where it's possible to substitute domestic production, the Trump tariffs increase raw materials input costs, which will raise prices.
    And the reduced price competition from imported gooods means that domestic producers have more scope to increase their prices.

    And of course there is a huge range of consumer products - notably affordable clothing - where there is no real domestic production. Buying American can mean paying several times the imported price - and for most goods, domestic production barely exists.
    Thick as mince more like, is it any wonder UK went to the dogs when this is what Tories are like.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193

    Nigelb said:

    Former shadow chancellor Ed Balls says plans to cut disability benefits ‘won’t work’
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/13/former-shadow-chancellor-ed-balls-says-plans-to-cut-disability-benefits-wont-work

    Has he suggested what will work ?
    That is the glaring flaw in his criticism.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,657

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:
    ... and Reeves predictably blames everyone except herself.

    Totally fucking useless.
    Reeves remains the weak link of the government. We will see this again soon in the inevitable fallout from the March statement. She is not a strong messenger for the government. Not deft enough or capable of building a narrative. Starmer should get rid, but I fear he won’t.
    Whose he got to replace her. The Runcorn by-election has already selected so Balls isn't available this spring.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    He's also a devotee of people like Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand from his younger days, so there are all sorts of wild and impractical fragments that could have worked their way into his thinking.

    Of those I only know Asimov fairly well, ..
    Something of a woke lib compared to the other two.
    That possibly depends on if your talking about group sex Heinlein or service-guarantees-citizenship Heinlein.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    He's also a devotee of people like Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand from his younger days, so there are all sorts of wild and impractical fragments that could have worked their way into his thinking.

    Of those I only know Asimov fairly well, and he has all sorts of half developed nostrums and dreams he wrote about speculatively.

    I have yet to see the idea of a single selected-by-computer voter in the proposals of DOGE, however.
    I was reading yesterday that he's interested in the idea of "seasteads", floating tech-fiefdoms run by competing CEO"s, with no democracy.

    Politically, he's clearly authoritarian, as his Straussian Moment essay shows, but economically he seems to be all over the place, from central control to dog'-eat-dog extreme libertartarianism.
    Compared to Musk, though, who is the risk-taker, he's the coherent intellectual behind the scenes, and the networked.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553

    Kremlin told U.S. it didn't want Trump's Ukraine-Russia envoy at peace talks

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-urkaine-war-kremlin-keith-kellogg-special-envoy-barred-talks-rcna195981

    Kellogg out.

    Now Dan Hodges is tweeting Times saying that Witkoff is out too.

    Putin pulling all the strings now.


    Trump has weakened Ukrainian resistance so much over the last month that Russia are now winning a war they were losing during the Biden Administration. I suspect Putin's view now is why not just crack on towards the victory.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,193

    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "

    Rutte hasn't had a good war. He's been a rabbit in the headlights since 1/20/25. One can't help thinking Baldy Ben would have been a much better option.
    He was picked as being Europe's "Trump whisperer". But that was Trump mk1.
    He doesn't have much of a clue how to deal with the second coming.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 547

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    Seems to be the plan - or at least the US version of it.

    Trump 1.0 was a bit of a sh*t show but at least there were some old hands within the administration. Trump 2.0 will simply be chaos. You don't have to be Sun Tzu to work out that now is the best time to take advantage of the headless chickens in the US. Especially since the chainsaw maniac is still wandering around looking for more chickens (also known as Democrats)

    See Don Jr is being offered lots of opportunities by those wishing to court favour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,657

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
    If Putin can't take more a quarter of Ukr including parts of which he's been infiltrating for years how the f is is gonna to take on the Finns?

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,863
    And the "networker", that should be.

    He's brought them all together, too.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,290
    Nigelb said:
    Unexpectedly? As far as I can tell this was exactly what you'd expect to happen based on Rachel from accounts chosen tax rises, which mostly hit next month, and the remarkable thing is that it hasn't shrunk more.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 547
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    Check the sources mentioned. Not everything is in the Daily Mail.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Just as new council tax and water bills are being paid and the impact of the budget on businesses.

    Lots of negatives.

    Few positives. Reintroducing beavers seems to be the main one.
    Big increase in minimum wage, also pensions, and whatever else is coming in on April 1st.

    Plus workers rights, rental bill coming down the track very soon, and others.

    There's plenty total about, if they get a media strategy and some self-confidence.
    "plenty to talk about"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,830
    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    It's telling you that - unlike many of its members and leaders - Reform voters aren't all uber-patriotic right-wing former Tories, but disillusioned NOTA voters who just want some money spent in their own town.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    Nigelb said:

    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "

    Rutte hasn't had a good war. He's been a rabbit in the headlights since 1/20/25. One can't help thinking Baldy Ben would have been a much better option.
    He was picked as being Europe's "Trump whisperer". But that was Trump mk1.
    He doesn't have much of a clue how to deal with the second coming.
    Ben's shout would have been louder if we hadn't Brexited (it shouldn't have mattered, but it did). Wallace was one of the very few Ministers in the last administration that had a decent idea of what he was doing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,830
    edited 8:58AM
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Interesting that the LDs have nearly doubled in that by election poll and challenging the Tories for 3rd since the GE. You would expect them to be squeezed to nothing.
    As I said a few days ago, there will be plenty of centre and left wing voters about with good reasons not to vote Labour, now they're in charge, and asking people to return a Labour MP to add to the hundreds they already have isn't a very persuasive pitch, anyway. The big card Labour had, of being the change, has gone now that people can see it for real.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
    If Putin can't take more a quarter of Ukr including parts of which he's been infiltrating for years how the f is is gonna to take on the Finns?

    Rome wasn't built in a day, but the Russians are masters of destabilisation. The narrative has changed in Russia's favour since 1/20/2025. Mark that date!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,768
    FPT @AndyJS

    https://archive.is/f8S4L

    I think he makes some errors of fact: specifically his belief that that Canada and Mexico folded quickly. Will investigate further.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Interesting that the LDs have nearly doubled in that by election poll and challenging the Tories for 3rd since the GE. You would expect them to be squeezed to nothing.
    As I said a few days ago, there will be plenty of centre and left wing voters about with good reasons not to vote Labour, now they're in charge, and asking people to return a Labour MP to add to the hundreds they already have isn't a very persuasive pitch, anyway. The big card Labour had, of being the change, has gone now that people can see it for real.
    The Conservatives under Badenoch need to consider where their votes will come from. Attacking Labour and giving Farage a free ride because he "might" be on their page is an odd way to conduct adversarial politics.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,279
    Morning all :)

    Vaguely on topic. I suspect even if there weren't a war in Ukraine, the incoming Trump administration would be making many of the same noises it made in its first incarnation.

    The truth is we've prospered on America's dime since 1945 and as with so much else the party is over and the bill is on the table. Whether you think defence spending should be as much as 5% of GDP in time is a matter for discussion - it may be you can achieve big improvements in defensive capability without having to spend fortunes if you spend wisely.

    Nonetheless, increasing defence spending means hard choices elsewhere and it would have been more interesting to see how those supportive of that spending would jump if it was a choice between raising taxes and cutting services. Fortunately, it may not be as it won't be an either/or but more likely a both/and but with stagnant growth, that means, to be blunt, we're all going to be worse off to pay to be safe (or to have the illusion or delusion of safety if you prefer).
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    Any off world colony is going to resemble the PRC or (even North Korea!) far more than the Western Democracies - at least for the first few generations. The fragile, incredibly resource constrained environment pretty much guarantees that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460

    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "

    Rutte hasn't had a good war. He's been a rabbit in the headlights since 1/20/25. One can't help thinking Baldy Ben would have been a much better option.
    I'm remembering how certain people, here, were sure that his "Full Tonto" remark was career ending insanity.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,289
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    Morning.

    Any further info or links, on this ?
    Worthwhile site to get an idea of alternative information. They monitor specific Russian bloggers and Russian media to get an idea of what Russians are being told. Allows anyone (including Presidents) to understand the optics on the other side.

    https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-13-2025
    Thanks, will take a look there.

    Some worrying comments from Musk this morning, considering that Thiel and Yarvin want to weaken the courts.

    @elonmusk

    Without judicial reform, which means at least the absolute worst judges get impeached, we don’t have real democracy in America
    I am wondering what the new USA capitalist autocracy model will look like. I am assuming it will operate more on the Chinese model than the Russian one.
    It's difficult to know, because people like Peter Thiel also seem to be disaster capitalists.
    It could be 1990's Russia.
    He's also a devotee of people like Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand from his younger days, so there are all sorts of wild and impractical fragments that could have worked their way into his thinking.

    Of those I only know Asimov fairly well, ..
    Something of a woke lib compared to the other two.
    Ayn Rand is pretty much a moral vacuum.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Foss said:

    Any off world colony is going to resemble the PRC or (even North Korea!) far more than the Western Democracies - at least for the first few generations. The fragile, incredibly resource constrained environment pretty much guarantees that.

    Until the Federation a la Star Trek I presume
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,768
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    NATO was built on the assumption that the Americans would help the Europeans in a Russian invasion. But this new version of America would now help the *Russians* in a Russian invasion. Which kills NATO stone dead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Interesting that the LDs have nearly doubled in that by election poll and challenging the Tories for 3rd since the GE. You would expect them to be squeezed to nothing.
    As I said a few days ago, there will be plenty of centre and left wing voters about with good reasons not to vote Labour, now they're in charge, and asking people to return a Labour MP to add to the hundreds they already have isn't a very persuasive pitch, anyway. The big card Labour had, of being the change, has gone now that people can see it for real.
    The Conservatives under Badenoch need to consider where their votes will come from. Attacking Labour and giving Farage a free ride because he "might" be on their page is an odd way to conduct adversarial politics.
    Farmers, pensioners, those who like Brexit as is, some small business people etc.

    Kemi at least largely supports her core vote.

    Starmer meanwhile is hitting his public sector core vote at a time Labour is already polling below Foot 1983 or Corbyn 2019 levels
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,279
    Moving on to less serious matters and the final day of Cheltenham and anyone following my selections is probably going to have to do a Dettori (too soon?):

    Triumph Hurdle: HELLO NEIGHBOUR

    Mares Chase: ALLEGORIE DE VASSY

    Albert Bartlett Hurdle: WENDIGO (each way)

    Gold Cup: GALOPIN DES CHAMPS (win), CORBETTS CROSS (each way)
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 40
    Re the header I wonder how much of that support is based on 'more taxes...for everyone but me'
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    HYUFD said:

    Foss said:

    Any off world colony is going to resemble the PRC or (even North Korea!) far more than the Western Democracies - at least for the first few generations. The fragile, incredibly resource constrained environment pretty much guarantees that.

    Until the Federation a la Star Trek I presume
    Until they attempt to break with their home groups - like the 13 colonies. A Mars colony attempting become self-sufficient would be the ultimate in command economy resource management. And that kind of struggle with imprint itself of the future nature of any society that evolves from any groups that survives.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,397

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:
    ... and Reeves predictably blames everyone except herself.

    Totally fucking useless.
    Reeves remains the weak link of the government. We will see this again soon in the inevitable fallout from the March statement. She is not a strong messenger for the government. Not deft enough or capable of building a narrative. Starmer should get rid, but I fear he won’t.
    In a government that includes Angela Rayner, David Lammy, Ed Miliband, Yvette Cooper, Louise Haigh and others it takes a lot to be the weakest link.

    But, yes, Reeves may well take that dismal crown.

    But:

    - the alternatives are mostly even worse, and none of them are obviously any better
    - replacing her won't get growth going - it's the government's policies that are at fault
    - Starmer would be implicitly admitting that he showed very poor judgement in appointing her in the first place, and has basically wasted the first year of his government.

    So I think she's safe.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
    Well if Putin invaded Finland NATO would be at war with Russia including the US unless Trump and Congress had withdrawn from NATO by then
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,955
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    The American made products will be more expensive.
    Otherwise they would already be buying them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    edited 9:16AM
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    The first poll in Runcorn and Helsby ahead of the upcoming by-election has Reform UK winning the constituency

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1900457587335643348

    Do you Labour have a byelection guru they can send in?

    There's plenty of positive things for them to talk about were they willing to do so consistently and repeatedly, starting with NHS waiting lists. And lots of stats are due out between now and the byelection date, so it needs a ground operation.

    When do we expect the byelection to be?
    Interesting that the LDs have nearly doubled in that by election poll and challenging the Tories for 3rd since the GE. You would expect them to be squeezed to nothing.
    As I said a few days ago, there will be plenty of centre and left wing voters about with good reasons not to vote Labour, now they're in charge, and asking people to return a Labour MP to add to the hundreds they already have isn't a very persuasive pitch, anyway. The big card Labour had, of being the change, has gone now that people can see it for real.
    The Conservatives under Badenoch need to consider where their votes will come from. Attacking Labour and giving Farage a free ride because he "might" be on their page is an odd way to conduct adversarial politics.
    Farmers, pensioners, those who like Brexit as is, some small business people etc.

    Kemi at least largely supports her core vote.

    Starmer meanwhile is hitting his public sector core vote at a time Labour is already polling below Foot 1983 or Corbyn 2019 levels
    If Labour are damaging themselves, which they are, why are you ( personally and your party) content to give Farage a free hand. Labour might be on their arse, but under normal circumstances you would be the net beneficiaries. You are not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    There has to first be a peace deal to enforce between Russia and Ukraine and second Russia would have to accept British peacekeeping troops none of which applies at present
    Depressing that people are seriously defending the idea Russia should have a veto on what happens within a sovereign neighbouring country.
    Well no ceasefire then as it takes Russian agreement too for any ceasefire
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,955

    "NATO boss Mark Rutte sat in silence as Donald Trump said he wanted to annexe Greenland (NATO member) and Canada (NATO Member) "

    Leaders just shouldn't visit Trump. He humiliates them They should treat Trump like Putin. Ostracise him.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
    Well if Putin invaded Finland NATO would be at war with Russia including the US unless Trump and Congress had withdrawn from NATO by then
    I don't think it works like that. A request for assistance under Article 5 is just that, a request. The US would simply refuse to provide assistance, it is voluntary.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,553
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

    I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

    There has to first be a peace deal to enforce between Russia and Ukraine and second Russia would have to accept British peacekeeping troops none of which applies at present
    Depressing that people are seriously defending the idea Russia should have a veto on what happens within a sovereign neighbouring country.
    Well no ceasefire then as it takes Russian agreement too for any ceasefire
    Meanwhile Russia Hoovers up Kursk and marches for Kyiv. If Trump set Ukraine up for a ceasefire it looks like it has back fired, and instead he foolishly stacked the cards against them for a defeat
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,228
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprise.
    Most Americans aren't completely illiterate regarding economics after all.

    "Increased tariffs on imported goods will make groceries and other regular purchases more expensive"

    Agree: 70%
    Disagree: 16%

    Ipsos / March 12, 2025 / n=1422

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1900266891060371607

    Not if they buy more American made products instead though
    So you are economically illiterate, then.

    Even where it's possible to substitute domestic production, the Trump tariffs increase raw materials input costs, which will raise prices.
    And the reduced price competition from imported gooods means that domestic producers have more scope to increase their prices.

    And of course there is a huge range of consumer products - notably affordable clothing - where there is no real domestic production. Buying American can mean paying several times the imported price - and for most goods, domestic production barely exists.
    If more buy American products that expands production and jobs in those areas. That could include in supplies previously imported.

    You do realise even Biden imposed tariffs on cheap Chinese goods mass dumped on the US market given the damage it did US industry? The EU also imposed tariffs on imports of Chinese EVs etc
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,460
    a

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Russia is moving into Belarus and now pointing out the Finland used to be Russian. Not the comments of someone worried about Trump.

    I can find no comments by Putin about Finland which is part of NATO anyway
    You don't seem to realise that Trump has just gutted NATO on behalf of Putin.

    Is Article 5 still a thing? Certainly not for the US it isn't. You have to consider NATO operating sans USA. That is the new reality.
    Well if Putin invaded Finland NATO would be at war with Russia including the US unless Trump and Congress had withdrawn from NATO by then
    I don't think it works like that. A request for assistance under Article 5 is just that, a request. The US would simply refuse to provide assistance, it is voluntary.
    To understand NATO, you need to understand the history.

    The pre WWI alliances, which included automatic declarations of war, were considered to have ensured the war. This is because of a deterrence failure - Type III in Herman Khan, IIRC - both sides had such automatic declarations. Which meant that once it started, it was a runaway train.

    The League of Nations failed because it was an attempt at diplomacy and sanctions only.

    The UN took on the diplomatic role. NATO was especcially designed as a flexible alliance - and umbrella for sub alliances. Totally voluntary - leaving has happened, without penalty and rejoining is easy.

    As @JohnLilburne says, the response to an Article 5 declaration is entirely up to the member state. In theory, a diplomatic letter/note could meet the obligation.

    The implication though, is that if a country does nothing, then when *they are threatened* then others might do the same - nothing.
Sign In or Register to comment.