Punters think Lab’s chances of winning most seats at the GE have improved – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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The tail can’t wag the dog. Europe’s big dogs need to work out between themselves what they are willing to do.geoffw said:Why on earth were the Baltics not invited?
Black mark on the UK government no matter how the meeting went.1 -
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Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.Gallowgate said:
Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.state_go_away said:
oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possibleBartholomewRoberts said:
There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?JosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.1 -
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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Topping has lost it.JohnLilburne said:
I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those thingsTOPPING said:
Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.Gallowgate said:
My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.TOPPING said:
There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.kle4 said:
He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.TOPPING said:
It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.BartholomewRoberts said:
A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.
You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.
Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.0 -
Trump is just loopy, not snooker loopy.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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Cheers MaxMaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?1 -
Depends on the Yanks, Malc. There are some very decent ones. Trouble is the barrel-scrapings got into the White House.malcolmg said:
Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.Gallowgate said:
Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.state_go_away said:
oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possibleBartholomewRoberts said:
There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?JosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.1 -
The amazing thing is there’s website called “Google” where you can ask dumb questions like this one. The other positive is I don’t have to read your posts.malcolmg said:
Cheers MaxMaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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Again pretending as if nobody is already fighting over their, willingly.state_go_away said:
you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
All we are saying is we should support those who are fighting as long as they want our support - why would you possibly object to that?
Why should we pull the rug from under them?0 -
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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This is the odd thing.Nigelb said:Trudeau stumbles on the reason Trump is so keen on Putin.
… It’s important at every chance we get to lay out the facts as clearly as possible.
In 2014 Russia chose to invade Ukraine, to occupy Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine. For that, they were kicked out of the G7 and in 2022 they chose to violate the existing cease fire and invaded Ukraine with the intention of taking Kyiv in three days and the entire country in three weeks.
That has failed.
Russia continues to try to fight to claim more land in Ukraine.
We could see an end to this war tomorrow if Russia decided to stop its illegal invasion of Ukraine.
On Friday in the Oval Office, President Zelenskyy pointed out in so many words that Vladimir Putin is a liar and a criminal and cannot be trusted to keep his word in any way, shape or form, because he has demonstrated time and time again that he will break any agreements...
Trump is a liar and a cheat and nobody trusts any guarantees he might give.
So why doesn't he give the guarantees ?
He really is crap at deal making.1 -
50 years ago much of middle management had secretaries, now it is only the executives.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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Rather unnecessary, especially since it isn't clear even with Google as it depends upon how it was meant.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
The amazing thing is there’s website called “Google” where you can ask dumb questions like this one. The other positive is I don’t have to read your posts.malcolmg said:
Cheers MaxMaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
The main EA that would be associated by many people with clubs like MK Dons is EA Sports, publishers of FC 25 (formerly FIFA Football).0 -
Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.
The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895902276956668134
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https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.2 -
What an arsewilliamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
5 -
Meanwhile, in "dress properly to visit a Head of State" news, anyone know what those things hanging off the hooks by the Sandringham door are?
At first glance, they look like a more regal version of the snoodie I wear when I'm working from home and don't want to put the central heating on.0 -
Paid time off ???MaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
paid time off; personal time off: a block of hours that combines all of an employee’s paid sick days, personal days, and vacation time
I've never even heard it before as a concept.
Certainly any place I've ever worked would not look well on a worker who thought sick days and holidays were interchangeable.0 -
He is overstating the case, but no evidence of the much-vaunted "post-brexit irrelevance" in London today.Daveyboy1961 said:
What an arsewilliamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.1 -
During the Yugoslav wars of the 90s, the same arguments were trotted out.
- that arming the victims of the Serbian aggression would just Level The Killing Field
- That the Bosnians and Croats needed to accept The Facts On The Ground.
- And indeed they needed to be kicked to their knees to get them to the peace table. Because their obduracy in fighting was preventing Peace.
I still recall a TV interview with an eminent diplomat vs a lady from Bosnia. He said that by fighting on they were throwing away lives.
She pointed out that the genocidal behaviour of the Serb auxiliaries made resistance vital.
Also that not acting was an action - that by enforcing an arms embargo on one side*, they were playing chess with her life. Even as they stood by and talked of peace.
I recall the diplomat was flabbergasted at her lack of awe at his wisdom and eminence.
*the Serb had much of the Yugoslav army setup and were freely supplied by Russia.2 -
Desperate. Back pedalling like a demented battery bunny. Help. Help!williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.5 -
Please turn over?MaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
I am now looking at the back of my phone.
BTW, an "Executive Assistant" is an assistant to an executive, not an assistant who is an executive.
I say this as someone who laughably has the word "Director" in my job title, when the only thing I direct at work is my piss into the urinal.3 -
His plan was for us to become America’s little mini-me. Now he is having to rethink!Daveyboy1961 said:
What an arsewilliamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.0 -
Needs to be the first of about 20 such announcements in the next few days.Nigelb said:Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.
The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/18959022769566681346 -
Putin is encouraging illegal immigration to Ukraine?BartholomewRoberts said:
He will say that just as soon as he can find a way of linking all that to immigration.algarkirk said:
If Farage wanted to tell us that Putin is a wicked war criminal, Mr Z is a hero, Trump is sub-optimal and has chosen his friends unwisely, and Starmer has played a difficult hand well this week in times when patriotic parties in the UK unite over essentials I am sure he can find the words. He hasn't.Mexicanpete said:...
I don't over analyse Farage. That word that rhymes with James Hunt covers all eventualities. Farage is a ...MarqueeMark said:
You can say many things about Farage, but the idea he is casual with his words doesn't stand much scrutiny.DavidL said:
Because he is a muppet?BatteryCorrectHorse said:Farage said the west intimidated Putin into invading. Why would he say that if he didn’t support Putin?
Think the worst of Farage and you won't go far wrong.
It’s Putin’s fault that there are all these Ukrainian refugees flooding into the UK?
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Power Take-OffMaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
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From what little I've heard not much of any use has emerged from the meeting today to ensure that Ukraine can prevail despite the presence of Putinists in the White House.
Trump and Vance are not democrats. They are mobsters. They do not share our values. They will not incur any cost in order to defend our principles.
We have to accept the new reality and act accordingly.1 -
You seem rather lacking in the balls department.state_go_away said:
you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?1 -
you on the front line as well then ? what a stupid comment from somebody who will never be in any more danger than a blunt fingernail from typing silly insultsSean_F said:
You seem rather lacking in the balls department.state_go_away said:
you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?1 -
It’s an argument that is both immoral, and morally cowardly, as it’s proponent is clearly backing a side, without wishing to state it outright.Malmesbury said:During the Yugoslav wars of the 90s, the same arguments were trotted out.
- that arming the victims of the Serbian aggression would just Level The Killing Field
- That the Bosnians and Croats needed to accept The Facts On The Ground.
- And indeed they needed to be kicked to their knees to get them to the peace table. Because their obduracy in fighting was preventing Peace.
I still recall a TV interview with an eminent diplomat vs a lady from Bosnia. He said that by fighting on they were throwing away lives.
She pointed out that the genocidal behaviour of the Serb auxiliaries made resistance vital.
Also that not acting was an action - that by enforcing an arms embargo on one side*, they were playing chess with her life. Even as they stood by and talked of peace.
I recall the diplomat was flabbergasted at her lack of awe at his wisdom and eminence.
*the Serb had much of the Yugoslav army setup and were freely supplied by Russia.2 -
Malcy I think you have been imbibing too many tots of Old Mull. Sorry to see you are joining the fantasists of PB.malcolmg said:
Topping has lost it.JohnLilburne said:
I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those thingsTOPPING said:
Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.Gallowgate said:
My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.TOPPING said:
There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.kle4 said:
He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.TOPPING said:
It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.BartholomewRoberts said:
A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.
You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.
Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.2 -
So all of my statements were either true, or at least arguable. Rather than 'a collection of statements that bear no relation to each other or the truth'.Luckyguy1983 said:...
The essay you link to is interesting, but many of the statements in the introduction (I have not read further) don't seem to me to bear much scrutiny. Assad is accused of "buying oil from ISIS" and "buying grain from ISIS" - but what else does one do when ISIS controls the oil fields and the grain fields? Let the population starve in the dark?kamski said:.
Which of those statements isn't true?Luckyguy1983 said:...
That's a collection of statements that bear no relation to each other or to the truth.kamski said:
Not only did Assad support ISIS, but Trump has threatened to abandon the SDF, who are the ones primarily responsible (with US help) for containing ISIS. The new government in Damascus has every reason to want ISIS defeated, unlike Assad.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's a shame that the Assad regime fell, as that regime protected minorities. The present regime are ISIS adjacent, and letting out ISIS (from their SDF captors) is likely to be the next step.BartholomewRoberts said:
Yet not a ceasefire that led to a peace treaty so the status of war is still valid.bondegezou said:
It’s a ceasefire that’s held for, I think, longer than you’ve been alive. To dismiss it is naive.BartholomewRoberts said:
They are at war, yes. Ceasefire is meaningless, just ask the Ukrainians.bondegezou said:
Israel and Syria are legally at war, but there has been a UN-overseen ceasefire for decades. Israel has now repeatedly attacked Syria, unprovoked. They marched into the UN buffer zone. They have repeatedly bombed Syria. This is landgrab.BartholomewRoberts said:
Oh I know full well he might have.bondegezou said:
You are responding to a williamglenn post. You don’t think he might have selected a tweet from a somewhat biased source? Are you really that naive?BartholomewRoberts said:
Good for Israel. Hope they can protect the Druze.williamglenn said:This has gone under the radar but seems very significant:
https://x.com/nhazony/status/1895954842662883767
Israeli forces are preparing to advance toward Damascus, Syria, to defend the Druze suburb of Jaramana, currently under attack by the Syrian regime (HTS).
No doubt @bondegezou will be along before long to repeat his spin that Israel is attacking peaceful Syria unprovoked (despite them being legally at war), that the new regime are peaceful and have done nothing wrong (despite them being proscribed terrorists in this country before they took over) and that the Druze don't need protection.
Anything to blame Israel, plus ça change.
Not as naïve as the individual who claimed with a straight face that Israel is not at war with Syria. Who was that again?
Syria is now under the control of what was a formerly proscribed terrorist organisation that has been nihilistic towards Israel and in favour of Israel's destruction. If grabbing land from their enemy they're at war with aids their survival, then good for them!
One person was killed in Damascus and Israel are saying that justifies invasion. Netanyahu is like Trump and Putin.
I despise Netanyahu but the war predates him, and my birth, and the birth of almost everyone on this site.
And we wonder why Trump questions liberal interventionism?
Israel, for their own reasons, just want to scupper the chance of an end to the civil war in Syria.
Assad supported ISIS
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698
Trump threatened to abandon the SDF
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/19/us-troops-syria-withdrawal-trump
The SDF defeated ISIS in Syria:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47678157
New government in Damascus has every reason ISIS is defeated: this is just logical, as they want control over the whole of Syria.
You seem to support Assad, who helped ISIS, refused to fight them while he was doing his best to murder everyone else, and is one of the worst war criminals in the world.
He is also accused in the intro of "attacking the moderate rebels instead of ISIS" again I'm not sure what is to be expected of someone fighting a civil war. There were many flavours of rebel in the conflict, but few of them were moderate. I don't see how Assad could have prosecuted the war differently. Driven past the moderate rebels (taking fire) to get to ISIS?
I am a lot more persuaded by the regime's early support for ISIS in Iraq, which seems likely, and just proves that one should never work through such groups, as it always comes back to bite you.
Yes, the SDF is in a perilous position, but the reason that this makes ISIS more likely to rise again is that the HTS regime, which is ideologically adjacent to ISIS, will then be left holding the keys to the ISIS prisoners. You may find this piece interesting:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/isis-is-filling-the-vacuum-in-syria/
I supported Assad as the least worst option. Sadly events are proving me right, again. Every time the West gets on its white charger and decides to get rid of some nasty strongman, things invariably get worse, mostly much worse. It's a lesson we seem to need to learn again and again. I would like us, in Britain if nowhere else, to sort out our own issues, and stop trying to fix the rest of the world because they don't do things the way that we would like them to.
What is your position? It's hard to tell, but you seem to think the US should withdraw entirely from Syria, and yet you also don't want ISIS prisoners released. This is completely incoherent.
You also say 'the West gets on its white charger and decides to get rid of some nasty strong man' - as if you imagine it was the West that got rid of Assad. Is that what you think? Because that only demonstrates total ignorance about what happened in Syria. Are you really willing to support a dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians while obviously not having informed yourself of the basic facts? I'm sorry but it's fucking disgusting.0 -
state_go_away said:
you on the front line as well then ? what a stupid comment from somebody who will never be in any more danger than a blunt fingernail from typing silly insultsSean_F said:
You seem rather lacking in the balls department.state_go_away said:
you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
You’re cowering at Russia from hundreds of miles away, and demanding we throw people under the bus who possess what you so plainly lack - a backbone.4 -
Alfie Tobutt
@AlfieTobutt
·
3m
THE NORTHERN ECHO: Chancellor’s northern no-show #TomorrowsPapersToday
https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/18963132052423969970 -
Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
Shames every Nigel.2 -
...
It seemed to be Europe v America today. Nigel went AWOL and missed all the excitement.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.1 -
It's a more accurate term than "annual leave"MaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
Toppers calm down old bean. Have you been reading too many William Glenn and O Lucky Man posts?TOPPING said:
Malcy I think you have been imbibing too many tots of Old Mull. Sorry to see you are joining the fantasists of PB.malcolmg said:
Topping has lost it.JohnLilburne said:
I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those thingsTOPPING said:
Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.Gallowgate said:
My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.TOPPING said:
There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.kle4 said:
He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.TOPPING said:
It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.BartholomewRoberts said:
A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.
You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.
Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.0 -
Second.MarqueeMark said:
Needs to be the first of about 20 such announcements in the next few days.Nigelb said:Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.
The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895902276956668134
Thales just announced 200 more jobs in Belfast to build the Starstreaks.
This isn’t quite 100% true, but there a very solid kernel of truth in there.
US finally made Europe spend trillions on arms but also excluded itself from that market. I’m sure that’s not what the US defense industry would call ”the art of the deal”.
https://x.com/Bergquizt/status/1896275918018248968
6 -
TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.0
-
Keir Starmer seems to be very good at diplomacy. Is this a new era of his Premiership where he’s growing into the role or just a temporary blip?0
-
Americans' top war was the one they fought against each other. IIRC they lost more in the Civil War than in all other wars combined. Perhaps it's like with sport - they only really like playing their own weird games against each other.malcolmg said:
Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.Gallowgate said:
Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.state_go_away said:
oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possibleBartholomewRoberts said:
There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?JosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.0 -
He has at least two top aides: Jonathan Powell and Peter Mandelson.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Keir Starmer seems to be very good at diplomacy. Is this a new era of his Premiership where he’s growing into the role or just a temporary blip?
And iirc he takes advice from Bew who has been FO policy wonk in No 10 since Johnson days.
0 -
You are a lawyer, a military historian, and an Old Gower. What on earth are you doing making infantile insults on the internet ffs.Sean_F said:
You seem rather lacking in the balls department.state_go_away said:
you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)JosiasJessop said:
It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go onJosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.
Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?1 -
Let's hope that there is bloody watertight security around the real state of agreement between the friends of Ukraine, and that any follow up with the White House is equally discreet.LostPassword said:From what little I've heard not much of any use has emerged from the meeting today to ensure that Ukraine can prevail despite the presence of Putinists in the White House.
Trump and Vance are not democrats. They are mobsters. They do not share our values. They will not incur any cost in order to defend our principles.
We have to accept the new reality and act accordingly.1 -
Crimea becomes a Trump golf course. The rest of Ukr is free to join the EU.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
Nothing less is acceptable.1 -
Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.2
-
I have to agree. It doesn't change my positive views of Brexit but just as I hate the false claims about various specific bad things being because of Brexit, I also hate to see spurious and false claims about anything good being about Brexit.Nigelb said:
Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
Shames every Nigel.
In this instance this is all about Britain and France being the leading defence powers on the continent of Europe*. It has nothing to do with whether we are in or out of the EU.
*Of course this will change in the near future as Poland joins or surpasses Britain and France in military capability6 -
a
Trump scams his own followers. Film at 11.bondegezou said:Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.
0 -
Paid. Time. Off.Scott_xP said:
It's a more accurate term than "annual leave"MaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
1 -
Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to rein him in fast.Taz said:
Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.JohnLilburne said:
Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forcesTOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=615 -
He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
0 -
Jesus, Farage had all weekend and he’s decided to make this about Brexit? Is he dumb?3
-
One reason I am glad we now not in the EU. This Putin c*nt still is...
Orbán Viktor
@PM_ViktorOrban
·
34m
European leaders decided in London today that they want to go on with the war instead of opting for peace. They decided that Ukraine must continue the war.
This is bad, dangerous and mistaken. Hungary remains on the side of peace. Ceterum censeo.1 -
Perhaps its why they're so relaxed about gun deaths in their own country but so unwilling to accept casualties in foreign wars.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Americans' top war was the one they fought against each other. IIRC they lost more in the Civil War than in all other wars combined. Perhaps it's like with sport - they only really like playing their own weird games against each other.malcolmg said:
Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.Gallowgate said:
Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.state_go_away said:
oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possibleBartholomewRoberts said:
There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.state_go_away said:
well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?JosiasJessop said:
A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.state_go_away said:
still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.JosiasJessop said:We are not facing the USSR.
We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians...
Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.
The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.
What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.0 -
Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"Richard_Tyndall said:
Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.Taz said:
Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.JohnLilburne said:
Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forcesTOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=610 -
As you know, Richard, we voted differently on Brexit, and argued rather a lot.Richard_Tyndall said:
I have to agree. It doesn't change my positive views of Brexit but just as I hate the false claims about various specific bad things being because of Brexit, I also hate to see spurious and false claims about anything good being about Brexit.Nigelb said:
Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
Shames every Nigel.
In this instance this is all about Britain and France being the leading defence powers on the continent of Europe*. It has nothing to do with whether we are in or out of the EU.
*Of course this will change in the near future as Poland joins or surpasses Britain and France in military capability
But I think we agree on quite a lot of the pros and cons, despite that.1 -
All the main UK parties need to sort their loose cannons out. Patel earlier today and now Mandelson.MarqueeMark said:
Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"Richard_Tyndall said:
Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.Taz said:
Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.JohnLilburne said:
Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forcesTOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=610 -
Don't worry, he will use American taxpayers' real money to boost them up againMalmesbury said:a
Trump scams his own followers. Film at 11.bondegezou said:Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.
1 -
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.10 -
Richard is one of the few that might have convinced me to vote for Brexit.1
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Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politicsrottenborough said:
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.
Time to sideline Patel though2 -
We need to hear Sir Boris's analysis.rottenborough said:
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.0 -
It's practical steps like this that make so much more sense than the fine words!Nigelb said:Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.
The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/18959022769566681341 -
Johnson would have sold Ukraine up the river had it benefited him. That much is obvious from his drivel over the last week.
Current Tories are much better than that. So credit there.0 -
Sky
Zelenskyy ready to sign the minerals deal1 -
For too many politicians being in the news is worth causing damage to others.Richard_Tyndall said:
All the main UK parties need to sort their loose cannons out. Patel earlier today and now Mandelson.MarqueeMark said:
Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"Richard_Tyndall said:
Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.Taz said:
Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.JohnLilburne said:
Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forcesTOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=612 -
I think this position we're in now would be much more difficult to hold if we were in the EU. That we're not in the EU is one of the reasons we have a fully independent foreign policy again which means we can have Mandy out there saying the unpalatable to get Trump back around the table. Last time the UK took a backseat to the EU and Germany and the deal was a pile of compromised shit with no security guarantees to prevent Russia from breaking it. Now that we're not beholden to the EU agenda it means we're finding it much easier to set it rather than follow someone else's tune. We don't have to agree with 27 other nations before we set out our stall. It gives us a leadership position that we can't otherwise have and it also allows France to get on board as co-leader outside of the EU defined structure.Richard_Tyndall said:
I have to agree. It doesn't change my positive views of Brexit but just as I hate the false claims about various specific bad things being because of Brexit, I also hate to see spurious and false claims about anything good being about Brexit.Nigelb said:
Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
Shames every Nigel.
In this instance this is all about Britain and France being the leading defence powers on the continent of Europe*. It has nothing to do with whether we are in or out of the EU.
*Of course this will change in the near future as Poland joins or surpasses Britain and France in military capability
If the UK was still in the EU this would be playing out very differently, we'd be having to corral all of the other nations before any agreed statements could be signed off, the military build up would be being funneled via the EU rather than by nation states and the whole agenda would be coming from Brussels rather than from London and Paris.
Brexit has sidelined the EU from a foreign policy perspective, it's actually becoming much clearer that without the UK the EU has lost a very, very big chunk of diplomatic weight and France isn't able to hold it up alone. This is a positive development because the EU is useless at foreign policy.4 -
I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.Nigelb said:
He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.1 -
I've missed Patel today. What did she do?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politicsrottenborough said:
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.
Time to sideline Patel though0 -
It seems obvious to me that any deal is going to see Ukraine lose territory. Is this controversial?TOPPING said:
I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.Nigelb said:
He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.0 -
Executive assistantmalcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
Are you from the past?StillWaters said:
Executive assistantmalcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
Well, they're not going to be from the future, now are they?BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Are you from the past?StillWaters said:
Executive assistantmalcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
Weapons are just the beginning, from a strategic point of view we need to treat US technology like that of China. The US has too much power to interfere with the operation of our societies. We should be ripping US technology out as soon as we can, which admittedly won't be for years, but we have to do it.Nigelb said:Second.
Thales just announced 200 more jobs in Belfast to build the Starstreaks.
This isn’t quite 100% true, but there a very solid kernel of truth in there.
US finally made Europe spend trillions on arms but also excluded itself from that market. I’m sure that’s not what the US defense industry would call ”the art of the deal”.
https://x.com/Bergquizt/status/18962759180182489682 -
The paid ChatGPT versions have access to the current internet. The rest has up to 2 years ago.IanB2 said:
I always thought ChatGPT isn’t uploaded with recent internet and couldn’t comment on topical events?Luckyguy1983 said:
ChatGPT writes what you want it to write.Fishing said:Sorry if already posted, but this is a quite interesting piece of ChatGPT psychology on the Trump/Zelensky disaster. That's what happens when you meet a narcissistic psychopath and his sidekick:
Conclusion
Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.
1. Blaming the victim for their own situation
Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering.
2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’
Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.
3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’
Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.
4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war
Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’
5. Devaluing the victims of war
“If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to strike again.
6. Dominance tactics
Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.
7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’
Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.
8. Projection and distortion of reality
Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.
9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US
Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.
10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance
Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.
It's an interesting information gathering and summary tool (as long as it’s caveated for accuracy, as it does itself). It should not be used to draw conclusions that it's not capable of drawing.
Anyhow, PB’ers who were here this morning already witnessed a superlative demonstration of where a combination of AI and sub-par human intelligence can take you. It wasn’t pretty.0 -
Disagree. EAs, PAs and secretaries have different roles and responsibilitiesMaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
I expect Mandelson acted with full knowledge of KS. It fits well with his words this afternoon and the plan to bring back the US on board.Richard_Tyndall said:
Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to rein him in fast.Taz said:
Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.JohnLilburne said:
Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forcesTOPPING said:So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.
(PS: there will be a deal.)
https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=611 -
You think after destroying his army, his economy - that Putin can afford to be pragmatic without the defenestration out of a high Kremlin window?TOPPING said:
I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.Nigelb said:
He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
Not happening.0 -
Pacific Theater of Operations. (WW2.)JohnLilburne said:
Power Take-OffMaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
2 -
According to reports not very helpfulrottenborough said:
I've missed Patel today. What did she do?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politicsrottenborough said:
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.
Time to sideline Patel though0 -
...
Corrected for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket0 -
As I was saying.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Zelenskyy ready to sign the minerals deal0 -
This isnt complicated:
1. Europe needs to financially support the Ukraine war effort on the basis the US is out
2. It needs to spend some of its own money and use those frozen Russian assets, not the interest, the assets, neatly ensuring Russia remains broke post war
3. Most of the basics of what Ukraine needs can be sourced internationally. The EU spent far too long talking about its own defence industry which couldnt supply enough whilst it should have been going elsewhere to get supplies. It eventually did but it was late and the amounts in that particular plan were not enough
4. It needs to pony up a large additional amount of cash, say 100billion over 3 years and offer it to buy US defence goods, particularly in the area of force multiplication where the best kit tends to be US, and dare the US government to say no.
5. It needs to open its stores and empty them to Ukraine because, believe me, there is plenty still there.
6. Offer a rare earth deal to Ukraine because these assets are just as important to Europe as they are to the US, particularly the US defence industry....
7. Stop fucking about and just do it
The direct Russian military threat, as evidenced by Ukraine isnt quite as mighty as it looks. The Europeans have time to build their own defence whilst giving full whack to Ukraine now.
Will they do it? Probably not, because for all Trumps arseholishness and the fact he is in Russia's pocket, he is right on one thing. Europe freeloaded off the US security umbrella for decades.9 -
The Royal family has been fairly spanking the colonials today...
The responses to this have been particularly choice
@nicksortor
You going on the frontlines too, King Charles?
Maybe some of your children?
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm...0 -
Are you looking to rake his position as NigelA?Nigelb said:
Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.williamglenn said:https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168
Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.
The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.
Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
Shames every Nigel.0 -
Rather than change posts that you have not written, maybe make the change in your own @MexicanpeteMexicanpete said:...
Corrected for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket1 -
What do you mean by "force multiplication"? What are you suggesting we buy from the US?Yokes said:This isnt complicated:
1. Europe needs to financially support the Ukraine war effort on the basis the US is out
2. It needs to spend some of its own money and use those frozen Russian assets, not the interest, the assets, neatly ensuring Russia remains broke post war
3. Most of the basics of what Ukraine needs can be sourced internationally. The EU spent far too long talking about its own defence industry which couldnt supply enough whilst it should have been going elsewhere to get supplies. It eventually did but it was late and the amounts in that particular plan were not enough
4. It needs to pony up a large additional amount of cash, say 100billion over 3 years and offer it to buy US defence goods, particularly in the area of force multiplication where the best kit tends to be US, and dare the US government to say no.
5. It needs to open its stores and empty them to Ukraine because, believe me, there is plenty still there.
6. Offer a rare earth deal to Ukraine because these assets are just as important to Europe as they are to the US, particularly the US defence industry....
7. Stop fucking about and just do it
The direct Russian military threat, as evidenced by Ukraine isnt quite as mighty as it looks. The Europeans have time to build their own defence whilst giving full whack to Ukraine now.
Will they do it? Probably not, because for all Trumps arseholishness and the fact he is in Russia's pocket, he is right on one thing. Europe freeloaded off the US security umbrella for decades.0 -
Piss Time O'Clock?Carnyx said:
Pacific Theater of Operations. (WW2.)JohnLilburne said:
Power Take-OffMaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
0 -
@Mexicanpete you need to be locked up you menace0
-
I doubt it’s quite as simple as that, since the integration is so deep - and to some extent applies in the opposite direction too.glw said:
Weapons are just the beginning, from a strategic point of view we need to treat US technology like that of China. The US has too much power to interfere with the operation of our societies. We should be ripping US technology out as soon as we can, which admittedly won't be for years, but we have to do it.Nigelb said:Second.
Thales just announced 200 more jobs in Belfast to build the Starstreaks.
This isn’t quite 100% true, but there a very solid kernel of truth in there.
US finally made Europe spend trillions on arms but also excluded itself from that market. I’m sure that’s not what the US defense industry would call ”the art of the deal”.
https://x.com/Bergquizt/status/1896275918018248968
But Europe certainly needs to again to become a significant manufacturing power in key technologies, both military and civilian.
The US recently woke up to the fact that if it surrendered manufacturing to Asia, it would eventually lose out in the technology race too.
It’s not quite too late for us to do the same, and it’s just possible this might be a catalyst which contributes to that.4 -
Please turn over?MaxPB said:
I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.TimS said:
The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,MaxPB said:
Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.malcolmg said:
What is an EAStillWaters said:
It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK DonsDavidL said:Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.
1 -
Specifically: ChatGPT can search the internet to find more recent information. Perplexity and Grok can also do this, while Claude cannot.Luckyguy1983 said:
The paid ChatGPT versions have access to the current internet. The rest has up to 2 years ago.IanB2 said:
I always thought ChatGPT isn’t uploaded with recent internet and couldn’t comment on topical events?Luckyguy1983 said:
ChatGPT writes what you want it to write.Fishing said:Sorry if already posted, but this is a quite interesting piece of ChatGPT psychology on the Trump/Zelensky disaster. That's what happens when you meet a narcissistic psychopath and his sidekick:
Conclusion
Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.
1. Blaming the victim for their own situation
Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering.
2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’
Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.
3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’
Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.
4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war
Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’
5. Devaluing the victims of war
“If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to strike again.
6. Dominance tactics
Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.
7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’
Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.
8. Projection and distortion of reality
Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.
9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US
Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.
10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance
Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.
It's an interesting information gathering and summary tool (as long as it’s caveated for accuracy, as it does itself). It should not be used to draw conclusions that it's not capable of drawing.
Anyhow, PB’ers who were here this morning already witnessed a superlative demonstration of where a combination of AI and sub-par human intelligence can take you. It wasn’t pretty.
Personally, I now self host Open WebUI and plug that into Groq on the backend. (I also plug it into OpenAI and OpenRouter.)
This means that (a) I get access to all the leading models, (b) they typically run a lot faster (particularly the ones hosted on Groq), (c) all models get access to the web, and (d) it costs me maybe $10/month, which is a massive saving on what I'd pay if I wanted access to Perplexity + DeepSeek + Anthropic + OpenAI.
It's a bit of work, but well worth it.0 -
No.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
It seems obvious to me that any deal is going to see Ukraine lose territory. Is this controversial?TOPPING said:
I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.Nigelb said:
He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.BatteryCorrectHorse said:TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
Where it becomes… interesting… is that a win for Russia (Putin) involves taking about half of Ukraine including the entire coastline.
So there cannot be a peace deal until that happens. Which means that Ukraine must be bought to its knees first. For Peace.1 -
...
There is always the flag button.BatteryCorrectHorse said:@Mexicanpete you need to be locked up you menace
0 -
No. Actually we don’t. The world would be a better place if we never heard from Mr Johnson ever againMexicanpete said:
We need to hear Sir Boris's analysis.rottenborough said:
James Cleverly🇬🇧
@JamesCleverly
·
39m
Starmer has done the right thing today.
We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.
I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.
1 -
Beth Rigby of Sky reporting that as we are not In the EU it gives Starmer the space to negotiate with Trump and Starmer is an unexpected peacemaker
Brexit dividend !!!!1 -
I didn't change your original post just your post within mine. Minerals deal my arse. It's a mafia style protection racket.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Rather than change posts that you have not written, maybe make the change in your own @MexicanpeteMexicanpete said:...
Corrected for you.Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky
Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket0
