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Punters think Lab’s chances of winning most seats at the GE have improved – politicalbetting.com

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,847
    geoffw said:

    Why on earth were the Baltics not invited?
    Black mark on the UK government no matter how the meeting went.

    The tail can’t wag the dog. Europe’s big dogs need to work out between themselves what they are willing to do.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,906
    edited March 2
    TimS said:

    geoffw said:

    Why on earth were the Baltics not invited?
    Black mark on the UK government no matter how the meeting went.

    I assume by mutual agreement, and with Poland representing them.
    You're wrong. They are quite upset about it. They are in the front line.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,845

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?
    There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.

    We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.
    oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possible
    Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.
    Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,283
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,845

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.

    And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.

    You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
    It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.
    He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.

    Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
    There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.

    Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.

    Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
    My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.

    Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.
    Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.
    I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those things
    Topping has lost it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,070
    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    Trump is just loopy, not snooker loopy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,845
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    Cheers Max
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,847

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,924
    malcolmg said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?
    There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.

    We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.
    oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possible
    Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.
    Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.
    Depends on the Yanks, Malc. There are some very decent ones. Trouble is the barrel-scrapings got into the White House.
  • malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    Cheers Max
    The amazing thing is there’s website called “Google” where you can ask dumb questions like this one. The other positive is I don’t have to read your posts.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,070

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
    Again pretending as if nobody is already fighting over their, willingly.

    All we are saying is we should support those who are fighting as long as they want our support - why would you possibly object to that?

    Why should we pull the rug from under them?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,600
    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,222
    Nigelb said:

    Trudeau stumbles on the reason Trump is so keen on Putin.

    … It’s important at every chance we get to lay out the facts as clearly as possible.
    In 2014 Russia chose to invade Ukraine, to occupy Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine. For that, they were kicked out of the G7 and in 2022 they chose to violate the existing cease fire and invaded Ukraine with the intention of taking Kyiv in three days and the entire country in three weeks.
    That has failed.
    Russia continues to try to fight to claim more land in Ukraine.
    We could see an end to this war tomorrow if Russia decided to stop its illegal invasion of Ukraine.
    On Friday in the Oval Office, President Zelenskyy pointed out in so many words that Vladimir Putin is a liar and a criminal and cannot be trusted to keep his word in any way, shape or form, because he has demonstrated time and time again that he will break any agreements...

    This is the odd thing.

    Trump is a liar and a cheat and nobody trusts any guarantees he might give.

    So why doesn't he give the guarantees ?

    He really is crap at deal making.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,479
    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    50 years ago much of middle management had secretaries, now it is only the executives.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,070

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    Cheers Max
    The amazing thing is there’s website called “Google” where you can ask dumb questions like this one. The other positive is I don’t have to read your posts.
    Rather unnecessary, especially since it isn't clear even with Google as it depends upon how it was meant.

    The main EA that would be associated by many people with clubs like MK Dons is EA Sports, publishers of FC 25 (formerly FIFA Football).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,609
    Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.

    The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895902276956668134
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,847
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,997
    Meanwhile, in "dress properly to visit a Head of State" news, anyone know what those things hanging off the hooks by the Sandringham door are?




    At first glance, they look like a more regal version of the snoodie I wear when I'm working from home and don't want to put the central heating on.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,222
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Paid time off ???

    paid time off; personal time off: a block of hours that combines all of an employee’s paid sick days, personal days, and vacation time

    I've never even heard it before as a concept.

    Certainly any place I've ever worked would not look well on a worker who thought sick days and holidays were interchangeable.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,279

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    What an arse
    He is overstating the case, but no evidence of the much-vaunted "post-brexit irrelevance" in London today.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,170
    edited March 2
    During the Yugoslav wars of the 90s, the same arguments were trotted out.

    - that arming the victims of the Serbian aggression would just Level The Killing Field
    - That the Bosnians and Croats needed to accept The Facts On The Ground.
    - And indeed they needed to be kicked to their knees to get them to the peace table. Because their obduracy in fighting was preventing Peace.

    I still recall a TV interview with an eminent diplomat vs a lady from Bosnia. He said that by fighting on they were throwing away lives.

    She pointed out that the genocidal behaviour of the Serb auxiliaries made resistance vital.

    Also that not acting was an action - that by enforcing an arms embargo on one side*, they were playing chess with her life. Even as they stood by and talked of peace.

    I recall the diplomat was flabbergasted at her lack of awe at his wisdom and eminence.

    *the Serb had much of the Yugoslav army setup and were freely supplied by Russia.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,540
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Please turn over?

    I am now looking at the back of my phone.

    BTW, an "Executive Assistant" is an assistant to an executive, not an assistant who is an executive.

    I say this as someone who laughably has the word "Director" in my job title, when the only thing I direct at work is my piss into the urinal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,634

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    What an arse
    His plan was for us to become America’s little mini-me. Now he is having to rethink!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,183

    algarkirk said:

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Farage said the west intimidated Putin into invading. Why would he say that if he didn’t support Putin?

    Because he is a muppet?
    You can say many things about Farage, but the idea he is casual with his words doesn't stand much scrutiny.

    Think the worst of Farage and you won't go far wrong.
    I don't over analyse Farage. That word that rhymes with James Hunt covers all eventualities. Farage is a ...
    If Farage wanted to tell us that Putin is a wicked war criminal, Mr Z is a hero, Trump is sub-optimal and has chosen his friends unwisely, and Starmer has played a difficult hand well this week in times when patriotic parties in the UK unite over essentials I am sure he can find the words. He hasn't.
    He will say that just as soon as he can find a way of linking all that to immigration.
    Putin is encouraging illegal immigration to Ukraine?

    It’s Putin’s fault that there are all these Ukrainian refugees flooding into the UK?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,442
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Power Take-Off
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,109
    From what little I've heard not much of any use has emerged from the meeting today to ensure that Ukraine can prevail despite the presence of Putinists in the White House.

    Trump and Vance are not democrats. They are mobsters. They do not share our values. They will not incur any cost in order to defend our principles.

    We have to accept the new reality and act accordingly.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,154

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
    You seem rather lacking in the balls department.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,847
    Sean_F said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
    You seem rather lacking in the balls department.
    you on the front line as well then ? what a stupid comment from somebody who will never be in any more danger than a blunt fingernail from typing silly insults
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,154

    During the Yugoslav wars of the 90s, the same arguments were trotted out.

    - that arming the victims of the Serbian aggression would just Level The Killing Field
    - That the Bosnians and Croats needed to accept The Facts On The Ground.
    - And indeed they needed to be kicked to their knees to get them to the peace table. Because their obduracy in fighting was preventing Peace.

    I still recall a TV interview with an eminent diplomat vs a lady from Bosnia. He said that by fighting on they were throwing away lives.

    She pointed out that the genocidal behaviour of the Serb auxiliaries made resistance vital.

    Also that not acting was an action - that by enforcing an arms embargo on one side*, they were playing chess with her life. Even as they stood by and talked of peace.

    I recall the diplomat was flabbergasted at her lack of awe at his wisdom and eminence.

    *the Serb had much of the Yugoslav army setup and were freely supplied by Russia.

    It’s an argument that is both immoral, and morally cowardly, as it’s proponent is clearly backing a side, without wishing to state it outright.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,481
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.

    And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.

    You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
    It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.
    He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.

    Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
    There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.

    Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.

    Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
    My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.

    Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.
    Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.
    I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those things
    Topping has lost it.
    Malcy I think you have been imbibing too many tots of Old Mull. Sorry to see you are joining the fantasists of PB.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,079

    ...

    kamski said:

    .

    ...

    kamski said:

    This has gone under the radar but seems very significant:

    https://x.com/nhazony/status/1895954842662883767

    Israeli forces are preparing to advance toward Damascus, Syria, to defend the Druze suburb of Jaramana, currently under attack by the Syrian regime (HTS).

    Good for Israel. Hope they can protect the Druze.

    No doubt @bondegezou will be along before long to repeat his spin that Israel is attacking peaceful Syria unprovoked (despite them being legally at war), that the new regime are peaceful and have done nothing wrong (despite them being proscribed terrorists in this country before they took over) and that the Druze don't need protection.

    Anything to blame Israel, plus ça change.
    You are responding to a williamglenn post. You don’t think he might have selected a tweet from a somewhat biased source? Are you really that naive?
    Oh I know full well he might have.

    Not as naïve as the individual who claimed with a straight face that Israel is not at war with Syria. Who was that again?
    Israel and Syria are legally at war, but there has been a UN-overseen ceasefire for decades. Israel has now repeatedly attacked Syria, unprovoked. They marched into the UN buffer zone. They have repeatedly bombed Syria. This is landgrab.
    They are at war, yes. Ceasefire is meaningless, just ask the Ukrainians.

    Syria is now under the control of what was a formerly proscribed terrorist organisation that has been nihilistic towards Israel and in favour of Israel's destruction. If grabbing land from their enemy they're at war with aids their survival, then good for them!
    It’s a ceasefire that’s held for, I think, longer than you’ve been alive. To dismiss it is naive.

    One person was killed in Damascus and Israel are saying that justifies invasion. Netanyahu is like Trump and Putin.
    Yet not a ceasefire that led to a peace treaty so the status of war is still valid.

    I despise Netanyahu but the war predates him, and my birth, and the birth of almost everyone on this site.
    It's a shame that the Assad regime fell, as that regime protected minorities. The present regime are ISIS adjacent, and letting out ISIS (from their SDF captors) is likely to be the next step.

    And we wonder why Trump questions liberal interventionism?
    Not only did Assad support ISIS, but Trump has threatened to abandon the SDF, who are the ones primarily responsible (with US help) for containing ISIS. The new government in Damascus has every reason to want ISIS defeated, unlike Assad.

    Israel, for their own reasons, just want to scupper the chance of an end to the civil war in Syria.
    That's a collection of statements that bear no relation to each other or to the truth.
    Which of those statements isn't true?

    Assad supported ISIS
    https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698

    Trump threatened to abandon the SDF
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/19/us-troops-syria-withdrawal-trump

    The SDF defeated ISIS in Syria:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-47678157

    New government in Damascus has every reason ISIS is defeated: this is just logical, as they want control over the whole of Syria.

    You seem to support Assad, who helped ISIS, refused to fight them while he was doing his best to murder everyone else, and is one of the worst war criminals in the world.

    The essay you link to is interesting, but many of the statements in the introduction (I have not read further) don't seem to me to bear much scrutiny. Assad is accused of "buying oil from ISIS" and "buying grain from ISIS" - but what else does one do when ISIS controls the oil fields and the grain fields? Let the population starve in the dark?

    He is also accused in the intro of "attacking the moderate rebels instead of ISIS" again I'm not sure what is to be expected of someone fighting a civil war. There were many flavours of rebel in the conflict, but few of them were moderate. I don't see how Assad could have prosecuted the war differently. Driven past the moderate rebels (taking fire) to get to ISIS?

    I am a lot more persuaded by the regime's early support for ISIS in Iraq, which seems likely, and just proves that one should never work through such groups, as it always comes back to bite you.

    Yes, the SDF is in a perilous position, but the reason that this makes ISIS more likely to rise again is that the HTS regime, which is ideologically adjacent to ISIS, will then be left holding the keys to the ISIS prisoners. You may find this piece interesting:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/isis-is-filling-the-vacuum-in-syria/

    I supported Assad as the least worst option. Sadly events are proving me right, again. Every time the West gets on its white charger and decides to get rid of some nasty strongman, things invariably get worse, mostly much worse. It's a lesson we seem to need to learn again and again. I would like us, in Britain if nowhere else, to sort out our own issues, and stop trying to fix the rest of the world because they don't do things the way that we would like them to.
    So all of my statements were either true, or at least arguable. Rather than 'a collection of statements that bear no relation to each other or the truth'.

    What is your position? It's hard to tell, but you seem to think the US should withdraw entirely from Syria, and yet you also don't want ISIS prisoners released. This is completely incoherent.

    You also say 'the West gets on its white charger and decides to get rid of some nasty strong man' - as if you imagine it was the West that got rid of Assad. Is that what you think? Because that only demonstrates total ignorance about what happened in Syria. Are you really willing to support a dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of civilians while obviously not having informed yourself of the basic facts? I'm sorry but it's fucking disgusting.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,154
    edited March 2

    Sean_F said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
    You seem rather lacking in the balls department.
    you on the front line as well then ? what a stupid comment from somebody who will never be in any more danger than a blunt fingernail from typing silly insults

    You’re cowering at Russia from hundreds of miles away, and demanding we throw people under the bus who possess what you so plainly lack - a backbone.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,436

    Alfie Tobutt
    @AlfieTobutt
    ·
    3m
    THE NORTHERN ECHO: Chancellor’s northern no-show #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://x.com/AlfieTobutt/status/1896313205242396997
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,609

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.

    Shames every Nigel.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256
    ...

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    It seemed to be Europe v America today. Nigel went AWOL and missed all the excitement.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,858
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    It's a more accurate term than "annual leave"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256
    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    A good deal is ideal, but no deal is better than a bad deal.

    And the only way to get a good deal is to be prepared to accept walking away with no deal.

    You should have learnt that lesson five years ago.
    It's great fun playing with the lives of thousands of people you don't know, isn't it.
    He's not playing with anything, this same argument was made 3 years ago for crying out loud. For one thing advising Ukraine to concede its territory is also playing with the lives of thousands by submitting them to Russian rule forever. But more fundamentally it's deferring to whether Ukraine and its people feel the cost of continuing is worth it and supporting them if they do.

    Reasonable people may differ about that position, but the 'playing with lives' argument is as silly as the other one from 3 years ago 'hurr hurr, I don't see you going on the front line'.
    There is no plan anywhere to do what the PB Ukraine ultras want and are advocating.

    Despite the constant whining on here, all that is being talked about is more of the same of the last three years.

    Now, it has long been my position that Ukraine should stop fighting when Ukraine wants to stop fighting. But the very controlled aid it has been getting is about to become further restricted. So Zelensky must navigate within those constraints and I have no doubt that he will and a deal will be done.
    My position is (and always has been) that Ukraine are defending against an immoral invasion and it is their decision (and their decision only) whether they fight back.

    Separately, it is also my position that we should support (with money and weapons at the very least) whatever decision Ukraine makes. Not purely for selfless moral reasons, but also because having the most battle hardened land army in Europe as an ally seems beneficial to me.
    Get real. Ukraine wants us to bomb Russia and send the troops in but for some unaccountable reason we have not done that over the past three years. Do you suppose that Starmer's plan will change that strategy.
    I don't think Ukraine has ever asked us to do those things
    Topping has lost it.
    Malcy I think you have been imbibing too many tots of Old Mull. Sorry to see you are joining the fantasists of PB.
    Toppers calm down old bean. Have you been reading too many William Glenn and O Lucky Man posts?
  • TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.
  • Keir Starmer seems to be very good at diplomacy. Is this a new era of his Premiership where he’s growing into the role or just a temporary blip?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,187
    malcolmg said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?
    There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.

    We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.
    oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possible
    Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.
    Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.
    Americans' top war was the one they fought against each other. IIRC they lost more in the Civil War than in all other wars combined. Perhaps it's like with sport - they only really like playing their own weird games against each other.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,436

    Keir Starmer seems to be very good at diplomacy. Is this a new era of his Premiership where he’s growing into the role or just a temporary blip?

    He has at least two top aides: Jonathan Powell and Peter Mandelson.

    And iirc he takes advice from Bew who has been FO policy wonk in No 10 since Johnson days.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,481
    edited March 2
    Sean_F said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that? You run a lot dont you so must be fit enough- go on
    It's always interesting to consider how you would react if you found yourself a citizen of a country that had been invaded by a fascist state - like France in 1940.

    Many people like to think they would be a member of the resistance; heroically fighting the enemy. Most people thinking that are deluded. An alternative is someone just trying to get on with life, minding their own business. Then there are those who would willingly collaborate, and even those who would willingly help and join the occupier.

    Which would you do? Given your attitude on here, I guess you would not be a heroic member of the resistance. A collaborator, perhaps?
    you just sound pompous now which you do a lot . Anyway nothing stopping you fighting now is there? Go on - be something more than a keyboard soldier (and one who claims moral purity as well)
    You seem rather lacking in the balls department.
    You are a lawyer, a military historian, and an Old Gower. What on earth are you doing making infantile insults on the internet ffs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,793

    From what little I've heard not much of any use has emerged from the meeting today to ensure that Ukraine can prevail despite the presence of Putinists in the White House.

    Trump and Vance are not democrats. They are mobsters. They do not share our values. They will not incur any cost in order to defend our principles.

    We have to accept the new reality and act accordingly.

    Let's hope that there is bloody watertight security around the real state of agreement between the friends of Ukraine, and that any follow up with the White House is equally discreet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,436

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    Crimea becomes a Trump golf course. The rest of Ukr is free to join the EU.

    Nothing less is acceptable.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,897
    Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,170
    a

    Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.

    Trump scams his own followers. Film at 11.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,584
    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    It's a more accurate term than "annual leave"
    Paid. Time. Off.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,609

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.
  • Jesus, Farage had all weekend and he’s decided to make this about Brexit? Is he dumb?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,436
    edited March 2
    One reason I am glad we now not in the EU. This Putin c*nt still is...



    Orbán Viktor
    @PM_ViktorOrban
    ·
    34m
    European leaders decided in London today that they want to go on with the war instead of opting for peace. They decided that Ukraine must continue the war.

    This is bad, dangerous and mistaken. Hungary remains on the side of peace. Ceterum censeo.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,222

    malcolmg said:

    We are not facing the USSR.

    We are facing Russia; a smaller, less-powerful country, with a much smaller economy. And no Ukrainians... :)

    Too many people seem to think we are still facing the USSR; the giant that spanned Asia and half of Europe. Tens of millions of those European 'Soviets' are now on our side, and fearful of Russian aims.

    The only way Putin can beat us is politically; and we risk letting him do that.

    still has a bloody great nuclear arsenal though. We are also dealing with the fact our army is about 20% of what it was even 30 years ago.
    A nuclear arsenal it cannot practically use.

    What a pathetic defeatist view you have.
    well you can alway go and fight yourself - or do you want others to do that?
    There are already others willing to do it - the Ukrainians.

    We just need to send them the materiel and support they need to finish the job.
    oh come on there has been a stalemate for over a year (look at the maps ) - prolonging this is not going to lead to victory its just going to lead to more deaths - Stop being so deluded - I think we in the west hve go so used to gaining victory over the years that we think its our right - sometimes real situations occur where victory is not possible
    Whether or not too many Ukrainian sons have died is not a decision for us, or the West. It’s a decision for them. They are literally fighting for the survival of their country. I really hope that should Britain find itself in such a position, our allies are not making the same pathetic arguments as yours. Your arguments are straight out of the Putin propaganda book.
    Yanks only like easy wars or ones that make them cash.
    Americans' top war was the one they fought against each other. IIRC they lost more in the Civil War than in all other wars combined. Perhaps it's like with sport - they only really like playing their own weird games against each other.
    Perhaps its why they're so relaxed about gun deaths in their own country but so unwilling to accept casualties in foreign wars.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,793

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forces
    Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.

    https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=61
    Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.
    Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,609

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.

    Shames every Nigel.
    I have to agree. It doesn't change my positive views of Brexit but just as I hate the false claims about various specific bad things being because of Brexit, I also hate to see spurious and false claims about anything good being about Brexit.

    In this instance this is all about Britain and France being the leading defence powers on the continent of Europe*. It has nothing to do with whether we are in or out of the EU.

    *Of course this will change in the near future as Poland joins or surpasses Britain and France in military capability
    As you know, Richard, we voted differently on Brexit, and argued rather a lot.
    But I think we agree on quite a lot of the pros and cons, despite that.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,955

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forces
    Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.

    https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=61
    Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.
    Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"
    All the main UK parties need to sort their loose cannons out. Patel earlier today and now Mandelson.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,831
    edited March 2

    a

    Donald’s and Melania Trump’s cryptocurrencies have both largely collapsed: https://www.uniladtech.com/news/tech-news/donald-trump-supporters-lose-12-billion-after-meme-coin-collapse-393345-20250228 The Trumps make $$$, Trump fans lose $$$.

    Trump scams his own followers. Film at 11.
    Don't worry, he will use American taxpayers' real money to boost them up again
  • Richard is one of the few that might have convinced me to vote for Brexit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,661


    James Cleverly🇬🇧
    @JamesCleverly
    ·
    39m
    Starmer has done the right thing today.

    We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.

    I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.

    Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politics

    Time to sideline Patel though
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256


    James Cleverly🇬🇧
    @JamesCleverly
    ·
    39m
    Starmer has done the right thing today.

    We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.

    I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.

    We need to hear Sir Boris's analysis.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 25
    Nigelb said:

    Denmark will officially reopen the Ammunitionsarsenalet AMA ammunition plant in North Jutland, with the Norwegian-Finnish defence giant Nammo running the 350-year-old facility.

    The Danish government will rush to get production lines running as soon as possible.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895902276956668134

    It's practical steps like this that make so much more sense than the fine words!
  • Johnson would have sold Ukraine up the river had it benefited him. That much is obvious from his drivel over the last week.

    Current Tories are much better than that. So credit there.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,661
    Sky

    Zelenskyy ready to sign the minerals deal
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,222

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forces
    Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.

    https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=61
    Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to reign him in fast.
    Trump and Vance will certainly jump on it. "Even the top Brit gets it!"
    All the main UK parties need to sort their loose cannons out. Patel earlier today and now Mandelson.
    For too many politicians being in the news is worth causing damage to others.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,600

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.

    Shames every Nigel.
    I have to agree. It doesn't change my positive views of Brexit but just as I hate the false claims about various specific bad things being because of Brexit, I also hate to see spurious and false claims about anything good being about Brexit.

    In this instance this is all about Britain and France being the leading defence powers on the continent of Europe*. It has nothing to do with whether we are in or out of the EU.

    *Of course this will change in the near future as Poland joins or surpasses Britain and France in military capability
    I think this position we're in now would be much more difficult to hold if we were in the EU. That we're not in the EU is one of the reasons we have a fully independent foreign policy again which means we can have Mandy out there saying the unpalatable to get Trump back around the table. Last time the UK took a backseat to the EU and Germany and the deal was a pile of compromised shit with no security guarantees to prevent Russia from breaking it. Now that we're not beholden to the EU agenda it means we're finding it much easier to set it rather than follow someone else's tune. We don't have to agree with 27 other nations before we set out our stall. It gives us a leadership position that we can't otherwise have and it also allows France to get on board as co-leader outside of the EU defined structure.

    If the UK was still in the EU this would be playing out very differently, we'd be having to corral all of the other nations before any agreed statements could be signed off, the military build up would be being funneled via the EU rather than by nation states and the whole agenda would be coming from Brussels rather than from London and Paris.

    Brexit has sidelined the EU from a foreign policy perspective, it's actually becoming much clearer that without the UK the EU has lost a very, very big chunk of diplomatic weight and France isn't able to hold it up alone. This is a positive development because the EU is useless at foreign policy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,481
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.
    I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.

    Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,436


    James Cleverly🇬🇧
    @JamesCleverly
    ·
    39m
    Starmer has done the right thing today.

    We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.

    I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.

    Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politics

    Time to sideline Patel though
    I've missed Patel today. What did she do?
  • TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.
    I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.

    Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
    It seems obvious to me that any deal is going to see Ukraine lose territory. Is this controversial?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,183
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive assistant
  • malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive assistant
    Are you from the past?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,584

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive assistant
    Are you from the past?
    Well, they're not going to be from the future, now are they?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,221
    Nigelb said:

    Second.
    Thales just announced 200 more jobs in Belfast to build the Starstreaks.

    This isn’t quite 100% true, but there a very solid kernel of truth in there.

    US finally made Europe spend trillions on arms but also excluded itself from that market. I’m sure that’s not what the US defense industry would call ”the art of the deal”.
    https://x.com/Bergquizt/status/1896275918018248968

    Weapons are just the beginning, from a strategic point of view we need to treat US technology like that of China. The US has too much power to interfere with the operation of our societies. We should be ripping US technology out as soon as we can, which admittedly won't be for years, but we have to do it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,027
    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    Sorry if already posted, but this is a quite interesting piece of ChatGPT psychology on the Trump/Zelensky disaster. That's what happens when you meet a narcissistic psychopath and his sidekick:

    Conclusion
    Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.
    1. Blaming the victim for their own situation
    Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering.
    2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’
    Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.
    3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’
    Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.
    4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war
    Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’
    5. Devaluing the victims of war
    “If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to strike again.
    6. Dominance tactics
    Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.
    7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’
    Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.
    8. Projection and distortion of reality
    Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.
    9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US
    Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.
    10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance
    Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.

    ChatGPT writes what you want it to write.

    It's an interesting information gathering and summary tool (as long as it’s caveated for accuracy, as it does itself). It should not be used to draw conclusions that it's not capable of drawing.
    I always thought ChatGPT isn’t uploaded with recent internet and couldn’t comment on topical events?

    Anyhow, PB’ers who were here this morning already witnessed a superlative demonstration of where a combination of AI and sub-par human intelligence can take you. It wasn’t pretty.
    The paid ChatGPT versions have access to the current internet. The rest has up to 2 years ago.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,183
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    Disagree. EAs, PAs and secretaries have different roles and responsibilities
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 25

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So as I see it when there is no deal and no ceasefire then PB en masse will be high fiving and celebrating a huge victory.

    (PS: there will be a deal.)

    Yes indeed. The war needs to continue. More Russian soldiers need to die. Let's see how much more they can take. They can easily stop the war by withdrawing their forces
    Lord Mandelson has called on Ukraine to unilaterallly call a ceasefire.

    https://x.com/paulembery/status/1896244722064318617?s=61
    Mandelson is a fucking idiot. Starmer needs to rein him in fast.
    I expect Mandelson acted with full knowledge of KS. It fits well with his words this afternoon and the plan to bring back the US on board.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,793
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.
    I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.

    Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
    You think after destroying his army, his economy - that Putin can afford to be pragmatic without the defenestration out of a high Kremlin window?

    Not happening.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,503

    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Power Take-Off
    Pacific Theater of Operations. (WW2.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,661


    James Cleverly🇬🇧
    @JamesCleverly
    ·
    39m
    Starmer has done the right thing today.

    We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.

    I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.

    Good to see the conservative party exercising grown up politics

    Time to sideline Patel though
    I've missed Patel today. What did she do?
    According to reports not very helpful
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256
    ...

    Sky

    Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket

    Corrected for you.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 25

    Sky

    Zelenskyy ready to sign the minerals deal

    As I was saying.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,858
    The Royal family has been fairly spanking the colonials today...

    The responses to this have been particularly choice

    @nicksortor
    You going on the frontlines too, King Charles?

    Maybe some of your children?



    Ummmmmmmmmmmmm...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,183
    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1896294594134065168

    Brexit Britain is now the link between Europe and the USA.

    The UK is in a unique position to form a 'coalition of the willing' to secure a lasting peace.

    Thank goodness we left the EU — and this country can stand tall on the world stage once again.

    Pretty desperate attempt at relevance.

    Shames every Nigel.
    Are you looking to rake his position as NigelA?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,661
    edited March 2

    ...

    Sky

    Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket

    Corrected for you.
    Rather than change posts that you have not written, maybe make the change in your own @Mexicanpete
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,608
    Yokes said:

    This isnt complicated:

    1. Europe needs to financially support the Ukraine war effort on the basis the US is out
    2. It needs to spend some of its own money and use those frozen Russian assets, not the interest, the assets, neatly ensuring Russia remains broke post war
    3. Most of the basics of what Ukraine needs can be sourced internationally. The EU spent far too long talking about its own defence industry which couldnt supply enough whilst it should have been going elsewhere to get supplies. It eventually did but it was late and the amounts in that particular plan were not enough
    4. It needs to pony up a large additional amount of cash, say 100billion over 3 years and offer it to buy US defence goods, particularly in the area of force multiplication where the best kit tends to be US, and dare the US government to say no.
    5. It needs to open its stores and empty them to Ukraine because, believe me, there is plenty still there.
    6. Offer a rare earth deal to Ukraine because these assets are just as important to Europe as they are to the US, particularly the US defence industry....
    7. Stop fucking about and just do it

    The direct Russian military threat, as evidenced by Ukraine isnt quite as mighty as it looks. The Europeans have time to build their own defence whilst giving full whack to Ukraine now.

    Will they do it? Probably not, because for all Trumps arseholishness and the fact he is in Russia's pocket, he is right on one thing. Europe freeloaded off the US security umbrella for decades.

    What do you mean by "force multiplication"? What are you suggesting we buy from the US?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,841
    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Power Take-Off
    Pacific Theater of Operations. (WW2.)
    Piss Time O'Clock?
  • @Mexicanpete you need to be locked up you menace
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,609
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Second.
    Thales just announced 200 more jobs in Belfast to build the Starstreaks.

    This isn’t quite 100% true, but there a very solid kernel of truth in there.

    US finally made Europe spend trillions on arms but also excluded itself from that market. I’m sure that’s not what the US defense industry would call ”the art of the deal”.
    https://x.com/Bergquizt/status/1896275918018248968

    Weapons are just the beginning, from a strategic point of view we need to treat US technology like that of China. The US has too much power to interfere with the operation of our societies. We should be ripping US technology out as soon as we can, which admittedly won't be for years, but we have to do it.
    I doubt it’s quite as simple as that, since the integration is so deep - and to some extent applies in the opposite direction too.

    But Europe certainly needs to again to become a significant manufacturing power in key technologies, both military and civilian.
    The US recently woke up to the fact that if it surrendered manufacturing to Asia, it would eventually lose out in the technology race too.

    It’s not quite too late for us to do the same, and it’s just possible this might be a catalyst which contributes to that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,027
    MaxPB said:

    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Sod those WASPI women, it is surely the United faithful that need some compensation and consideration for unexpected and brutal disappointments. £20k a head seems light for the trauma we have had to endure. This is beyond depressing and I am getting beyond depressed. Help.

    It could be worse - my EA’s partner just got sacked from MK Dons
    What is an EA
    Executive Assistant, the new job title for Secretary.
    The American word. Hopefully one of the fallouts from last Friday will be less US biz-speak and more good British stuff like “close of play” - to my knowledge the only British sporting metaphor to have made it into day to day American jargon,
    I had to Google "PTO" when someone used it on Slack at my last company which had a big American and Irish contingent. Just couldn't figure it out.
    Please turn over?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,646

    IanB2 said:

    Fishing said:

    Sorry if already posted, but this is a quite interesting piece of ChatGPT psychology on the Trump/Zelensky disaster. That's what happens when you meet a narcissistic psychopath and his sidekick:

    Conclusion
    Trump and his team employed the full spectrum of abusive tactics: gaslighting, victim-blaming, coercion into gratitude, and manipulation of the concepts of peace and diplomacy. This was not a negotiation—it was an attempt to force Zelensky into accepting terms beneficial to the US but potentially fatal for Ukraine.
    1. Blaming the victim for their own situation
    Trump explicitly tells Zelensky: “You have allowed yourself to be in a very bad position.” This is classic abuser rhetoric—blaming the victim for their suffering.
    2. Pressure and coercion into ‘gratitude’
    Vance demands that Zelensky say “thank you.” This is an extremely toxic tactic—forcing the victim to express gratitude for the help they desperately need, only to later accuse them of ingratitude if they attempt to assert their rights.
    3. Manipulating the concept of ‘peace’
    Trump claims that Zelensky is “not ready for peace.” However, what he actually means is Ukraine’s capitulation. This is a classic manipulation technique—substituting the idea of a just peace with the notion of surrender.
    4. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of war
    Trump repeatedly insists that Zelensky has “no cards to play” and that “without us, you have nothing.” This is yet another abusive tactic—undermining the victim’s efforts by asserting that they are powerless without the mercy of their ‘saviour.’
    5. Devaluing the victims of war
    “If you get a ceasefire, you must accept it so that bullets stop flying and your people stop dying,” Trump says. Yet, he ignores the fact that a ceasefire without guarantees is merely an opportunity for Russia to strike again.
    6. Dominance tactics
    Trump constantly interrupts Zelensky, cutting him off: “No, no, you’ve already said enough,” This is deliberate psychological pressure designed to establish a hierarchy in which Zelensky is the subordinate.
    7. Forcing capitulation under the guise of ‘diplomacy’
    Vance asserts that “the path to peace lies through diplomacy.” This is a classic strategy where the aggressor is given the opportunity to continue their aggression unchallenged.
    8. Projection and distortion of reality
    Trump declares: “You are playing with the lives of millions of people.” Yet, in reality, it is he who is doing exactly that—shifting responsibility onto Zelensky.
    9. Creating the illusion that Ukraine ‘owes’ the US
    Yes, the US is assisting Ukraine, but presenting this aid as “you must obey, or you will receive nothing” is not a partnership—it is financial and military coercion.
    10. Undermining Ukraine’s resistance
    Trump states that “if it weren’t for our weapons, this war would have ended in two weeks.” This is an attempt to erase Ukraine’s achievements and portray its efforts as entirely dependent on US support.

    ChatGPT writes what you want it to write.

    It's an interesting information gathering and summary tool (as long as it’s caveated for accuracy, as it does itself). It should not be used to draw conclusions that it's not capable of drawing.
    I always thought ChatGPT isn’t uploaded with recent internet and couldn’t comment on topical events?

    Anyhow, PB’ers who were here this morning already witnessed a superlative demonstration of where a combination of AI and sub-par human intelligence can take you. It wasn’t pretty.
    The paid ChatGPT versions have access to the current internet. The rest has up to 2 years ago.
    Specifically: ChatGPT can search the internet to find more recent information. Perplexity and Grok can also do this, while Claude cannot.

    Personally, I now self host Open WebUI and plug that into Groq on the backend. (I also plug it into OpenAI and OpenRouter.)

    This means that (a) I get access to all the leading models, (b) they typically run a lot faster (particularly the ones hosted on Groq), (c) all models get access to the web, and (d) it costs me maybe $10/month, which is a massive saving on what I'd pay if I wanted access to Perplexity + DeepSeek + Anthropic + OpenAI.

    It's a bit of work, but well worth it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,170

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING seems to be one of the few who is asking what ending the war means in practice.

    He might be asking, but he's certainly not volunteering much.
    I can't call what people involved will be willing to give up. I do know however that all parties will need to be pragmatic.

    Which simple admission is already hugely more insightful than the wishful thinking on display by most of PB today.
    It seems obvious to me that any deal is going to see Ukraine lose territory. Is this controversial?
    No.

    Where it becomes… interesting… is that a win for Russia (Putin) involves taking about half of Ukraine including the entire coastline.

    So there cannot be a peace deal until that happens. Which means that Ukraine must be bought to its knees first. For Peace.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256
    ...

    @Mexicanpete you need to be locked up you menace

    There is always the flag button.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,183


    James Cleverly🇬🇧
    @JamesCleverly
    ·
    39m
    Starmer has done the right thing today.

    We will need to go further, and bring other countries with us, but he has put the UK into a genuine position of leadership in support of #Ukraine.

    I’ll criticise when he gets things wrong, but today he’s done the right thing.

    We need to hear Sir Boris's analysis.
    No. Actually we don’t. The world would be a better place if we never heard from Mr Johnson ever again
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,661
    Beth Rigby of Sky reporting that as we are not In the EU it gives Starmer the space to negotiate with Trump and Starmer is an unexpected peacemaker

    Brexit dividend !!!!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,256

    ...

    Sky

    Zelenskyy ready to sign up to the protection racket

    Corrected for you.
    Rather than change posts that you have not written, maybe make the change in your own @Mexicanpete
    I didn't change your original post just your post within mine. Minerals deal my arse. It's a mafia style protection racket.
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