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The Lib Dems are carving out a strong anti Trump position – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,666
    Andy_JS said:

    Why didn't Truss do something about Orwell-ism while she was PM?

    Look, you can't trash the economy and save the entire Free West all in one month.

    As they say, to govern is to choose.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,779
    edited February 21
    nico67 said:

    Trump having another go at Zelenskyy and says it’s not important for him to be part of negotiations.

    Can’t he just STFU for one day !

    Unfortunately not for the next 4 years

    And the media are loving it - every conference or announcement is carried in full

    The world is a very different place now and with untold consequences

    My solution is to go and have a cuppa tea and rich tea biscuit with my beloved, and discuss what the family are doing this weekend which apparently for them includes kayaking and long walks in and around Yr Wyddfa
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,659

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    I sometimes go to a butcher in Golders Green. Guess what they sell and don’t sell.
    It's completely legal to sell horsemeat in England, but an awful lot of butchers just don't for some reason. I wouldn't describe that as a ban.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Don't forget kini is not entirely sure what his opinion should be so he latches onto the opinions of others, as you say, for comfort.

    His journey, remarkable as it is, has left him stranded in a world of opinions and mores that his education and achievements have left him singularly unprepared and unfit for.
    PB’s version of this chap ?

    https://youtu.be/KRPcssq-7Us?si=oseEL7_5bvumlt-Q
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,198
    nico67 said:

    Trump having another go at Zelenskyy and says it’s not important for him to be part of negotiations.

    Can’t he just STFU for one day !

    Evidently not.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,295
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    I suppose labels are the fallback of people who don't have the intellectual capacity for more complex thinking.
    Don't worry, I know you're just trolling. You're no Trump fan.
    I am a fan of the process that brought him to power and find constant amusement in the inability of "right thinking people" such as yourself to reconcile that people voted for him to do what he is doing.
    Not a Trump supporter but enjoying how he's annoying the right people? Yes, that is my reading of you. Fine. Don't forget to have a biscuit with it.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,290
    edited February 21


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    It's a sensible political strategy to avoid the second-term lame duck phenomenon.
    So they think that Trump will live... how long? Do they really want an 86 year old guy as C-i-C?

    Not to mention what happened to Caesar...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109

    nico67 said:

    Trump having another go at Zelenskyy and says it’s not important for him to be part of negotiations.

    Can’t he just STFU for one day !

    No matter how bad Trump is for Ukraine just remember President Harris would have been worse for Ukraine.

    I am going to name and shame the people who made that argument before the election.
    Please do. It’s important that the gibbering idiots are held to account.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,816

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    Would you also force vegetarian restaurants to serve bacon?
    No, nor would I force Muslim restaurants to but Five Guys is neither
    Well clearly a couple of branches of Five Guys are halal restaurants. Up to them, isn't it? It's like if a branch of Pizza Hut goes vegan.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,408
    edited February 21


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Presumably Bannon's gesture was a Roman salute then.


  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    It's a sensible political strategy to avoid the second-term lame duck phenomenon.
    It’s authoritarian trash.
    Beware the Ides of March.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,257


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,143
    Cicero said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    It's a sensible political strategy to avoid the second-term lame duck phenomenon.
    So they think that Trump will live... how long? Do they really want an 86 year old guy as C-i-C?

    Not to mention what happened to Caesar...
    No, I mean that if Trump hints that he might run again (or cancel the elections), then he can avoid becoming a lame duck even if in reality there's no chance that he'll run again (or cancel the elections).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,710
    This Digital Services Tax proposal by Davey could really stir things up, since it will overwhelmingly hit companies from the USA.

    There may be a reaction, as the Digital Services Tax is within the set of "taxes" that may be covered by the "Reciprocal Tariffs" EO put out on 13/2.

    And another one about Digital Services Taxes is due today. Bloomberg:

    President Donald Trump is expected to sign a memorandum Friday that opens the door to levies in response to digital services taxes some countries impose on US tech giants, people familiar with the plans said, the latest step to expand a tariff war aimed at addressing imbalances in global trade.
    https://archive.is/20250221145240/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-21/trump-eyes-tariffs-to-counter-digital-taxes-despised-by-big-tech#selection-1665.0-1665.295

    Keir Starmer may get buttonholed on this. Especially as Ms Macron is around.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
    I suspect Vance will be top of the list if he thinks Caesar is going to deny him his shot at the top job!
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    edited February 21
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    What the world knows, and will not unlearn, is that the United States cannot be trusted. Faith in America, and in basic American decency and goodwill, has kept the peace for generations, but that is over. Nations that refrained from getting nuclear weapons because they were secure under the American umbrella will rush to get bombs. Nations that resisted China’s bullying will make their accommodations. The Taiwanese can kiss their independence and their freedom goodbye. Formerly close allies will not share intelligence about impending terrorist threats. Our trading partners will make other plans and find other markets wherever possible. International lenders will think twice before underwriting more American debt.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/america-joins-the-jackals?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium==&utm_campaign=s

    They (you?) are upset that they are trying to bring about peace in Ukraine when the quote criticises them for no longer being peacekeepers?
    Give us the $500bn of minerals or we will allow Russia to take over your country isn’t a negotiation tactic, it’s a threat
    I’d read a claim, and I’m not clued up enough to know if true or not, that the terms the Trumpdozer was trying to impose on Ukraine were more punitive than those the allies applied on Germany after WW1.

    Which was interesting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,295
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    I suppose labels are the fallback of people who don't have the intellectual capacity for more complex thinking.
    Don't worry, I know you're just trolling. You're no Trump fan.
    I am a fan of the process that brought him to power and the inability of "right thinking people" such as yourself to reconcile that people voted for him to do what he is doing.
    So they own it?
    Of course they do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,408
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,204
    rottenborough - And you think the odds should be?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    edited February 21
    MattW said:

    This Digital Services Tax proposal by Davey could really stir things up, since it will overwhelmingly hit companies from the USA.

    There may be a reaction, as the Digital Services Tax is within the set of "taxes" that may be covered by the "Reciprocal Tariffs" EO put out on 13/2.

    And another one about Digital Services Taxes is due today. Bloomberg:

    President Donald Trump is expected to sign a memorandum Friday that opens the door to levies in response to digital services taxes some countries impose on US tech giants, people familiar with the plans said, the latest step to expand a tariff war aimed at addressing imbalances in global trade.
    https://archive.is/20250221145240/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-21/trump-eyes-tariffs-to-counter-digital-taxes-despised-by-big-tech#selection-1665.0-1665.295

    Keir Starmer may get buttonholed on this. Especially as Ms Macron is around.

    I’ve been arguing for a digital services tax for years.
    Digitalisation tends to monopoly.
    Monopolies should be broken apart, and if that is not feasible, they should incur a tax.

    The essential subsidy bestowed on Amazon versus a high street retailer is absurd.

    That such services are often American should be irrelevant, save that failure to address this issue perpetuates Britain’s hollowing out by a power we must now treat more squarely as a not obviously friendly rival.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    Would you also force vegetarian restaurants to serve bacon?
    No, nor would I force Muslim restaurants to but Five Guys is neither
    Well clearly a couple of branches of Five Guys are halal restaurants. Up to them, isn't it? It's like if a branch of Pizza Hut goes vegan.
    What if they serve pineapple?
  • kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    Would you also force vegetarian restaurants to serve bacon?
    No, nor would I force Muslim restaurants to but Five Guys is neither
    Well clearly a couple of branches of Five Guys are halal restaurants. Up to them, isn't it? It's like if a branch of Pizza Hut goes vegan.
    What if they serve pineapple?
    I’ll be issuing a fatwa.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    Would you also force vegetarian restaurants to serve bacon?
    No, nor would I force Muslim restaurants to but Five Guys is neither
    Well clearly a couple of branches of Five Guys are halal restaurants. Up to them, isn't it? It's like if a branch of Pizza Hut goes vegan.
    What if they serve pineapple?
    Pineapple isn’t the problem but I think the ham would be
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Sticky inflation won’t help either and his stupid tariff policies are inflationary.

    He made a big play on inflation and food prices. He can get away with it now but in a few months he owns it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Israel already has the bomb.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    In which case he will be voted out next time round. We have a similar thing here in the UK with Starmer's Lab.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Sticky inflation won’t help either and his stupid tariff policies are inflationary.

    He made a big play on inflation and food prices. He can get away with it now but in a few months he owns it.
    I made a prediction on election day that inflation will spike in 2025, and there is a raised chance of a stock market crash.

    And some of the people around Trump are smart enough to realise this. But they hope that tax cuts will keep the show on the road.

  • I think there's a lot to be said for TSE's analysis here. There is simply mo doubt that over the last few years British public opinion has swung strongly behind Ukraine. Whatever the reasons (plucky underdog, dislike of Russian aggression, or whatever) voters from all political parties and none have been raising money, sheltering refugees and generally supporting Ukraine. it's going to take a lot of reverse-ferretting to persuade churchgoers, charities, blokes in pubs etc that Zelensky is now the bad guy. Add in to this a general distaste (at best) for Trump, Trumpism, Musk-etry and general US belligerence, then it looks like Ed Davey & Co could be in exactly the same position as the vast majority of British voters.

    I for one would have no hesitation in lending my protest vote to a party that is openly and transparently pro-Ukraine, anti-Trump and pro-Europe. I expect that many Conservatives and Labour voters would feel the same way, as neither Starmer nor Badenoch can say what the majority of their members would like them to say. And as for Farage, he's going to have to be very nimble on his feet to avoid being tarred by Trump's rapidly evolving but still bizarre foreign policy.

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,290
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think the LDs will gain much, Starmer and Badenoch have equally confirmed support for Zelensky and Ukraine (as to be fair did Truss as PM). Starmer is also very pro EDI unlike Trump and both Starmer and Badenoch as well as Davey oppose Trump's tariffs and Starmer has reiterated support for a 2 state solution between Israel and Palestine. The most pro Trump party is Reform whose voters would never consider the pro EU, pro immigration LDs anyway

    Only the LibDems are going after Trump. I suspect this will be popular with the current LibDem voter base and those the party is targeting for next time.

    I’ve noticed several of them deliberately tagging JD Vance and Musk in their tweets, to provoke a reaction.

    Davey already had an online attack from Musk a few weeks ago. They must have seen the engagement numbers from that and thought “hmm, let’s get a bit more”.
    The Lib Dems are political prostitutes with few punters.
    Pretty weak attack line.

    29 gains more from the Tories and Sir Ed is His Majesty´s leader Leader of the Loyal Opposition.

    The next locals could demonstrate that this is more than possible.

    I am more than sure that there will be increasingly vicious attacks on the Lib Dems, I am increasingly sure that they won´t work.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Saudi Arabia?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    MattW said:

    This Digital Services Tax proposal by Davey could really stir things up, since it will overwhelmingly hit companies from the USA.

    There may be a reaction, as the Digital Services Tax is within the set of "taxes" that may be covered by the "Reciprocal Tariffs" EO put out on 13/2.

    And another one about Digital Services Taxes is due today. Bloomberg:

    President Donald Trump is expected to sign a memorandum Friday that opens the door to levies in response to digital services taxes some countries impose on US tech giants, people familiar with the plans said, the latest step to expand a tariff war aimed at addressing imbalances in global trade.
    https://archive.is/20250221145240/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-21/trump-eyes-tariffs-to-counter-digital-taxes-despised-by-big-tech#selection-1665.0-1665.295

    Keir Starmer may get buttonholed on this. Especially as Ms Macron is around.

    Davey can propose what he wants. Little chance it will become law. Certainly before Trump,goes in 2028.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    In which case he will be voted out next time round. We have a similar thing here in the UK with Starmer's Lab.
    Trump is chewing through the firewalls that make elections competitive.

    Your complacency is beyond stupid, it is actively malign.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
    Hayek, Smith, Rand, Friedman, Kristol, Buckley, Scruton to name just a few rightwing, libertarian or conservative intellectuals
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,143
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Taiwan would be very problematic in terms of international law because only 12 countries recognise it as a state.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,710
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    I sometimes go to a butcher in Golders Green. Guess what they sell and don’t sell.
    It's completely legal to sell horsemeat in England, but an awful lot of butchers just don't for some reason. I wouldn't describe that as a ban.
    As it happens, I found a horse haunch in my freezer :smile: .

    (I did know it was there, I just relocated it whilst tidying.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    If any of us ever meet Liz Truss, I think we should try the "pork markets" line on her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240
    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think the LDs will gain much, Starmer and Badenoch have equally confirmed support for Zelensky and Ukraine (as to be fair did Truss as PM). Starmer is also very pro EDI unlike Trump and both Starmer and Badenoch as well as Davey oppose Trump's tariffs and Starmer has reiterated support for a 2 state solution between Israel and Palestine. The most pro Trump party is Reform whose voters would never consider the pro EU, pro immigration LDs anyway

    Only the LibDems are going after Trump. I suspect this will be popular with the current LibDem voter base and those the party is targeting for next time.

    I’ve noticed several of them deliberately tagging JD Vance and Musk in their tweets, to provoke a reaction.

    Davey already had an online attack from Musk a few weeks ago. They must have seen the engagement numbers from that and thought “hmm, let’s get a bit more”.
    The Lib Dems are political prostitutes with few punters.
    Pretty weak attack line.

    29 gains more from the Tories and Sir Ed is His Majesty´s leader Leader of the Loyal Opposition.

    The next locals could demonstrate that this is more than possible.

    I am more than sure that there will be increasingly vicious attacks on the Lib Dems, I am increasingly sure that they won´t work.
    Given most current polls have the Tories closer to Labour and Reform than the LDs are to the Tories very unlikely.

    Indeed the Greens are now closer to the LDs than the LDs are to the Tories polling wise
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    edited February 21

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    It's a sensible political strategy to avoid the second-term lame duck phenomenon.
    There is a teeny possibility that you were actually making a joke there. If so...congratulations?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109

    I think there's a lot to be said for TSE's analysis here. There is simply mo doubt that over the last few years British public opinion has swung strongly behind Ukraine. Whatever the reasons (plucky underdog, dislike of Russian aggression, or whatever) voters from all political parties and none have been raising money, sheltering refugees and generally supporting Ukraine. it's going to take a lot of reverse-ferretting to persuade churchgoers, charities, blokes in pubs etc that Zelensky is now the bad guy. Add in to this a general distaste (at best) for Trump, Trumpism, Musk-etry and general US belligerence, then it looks like Ed Davey & Co could be in exactly the same position as the vast majority of British voters.

    I for one would have no hesitation in lending my protest vote to a party that is openly and transparently pro-Ukraine, anti-Trump and pro-Europe. I expect that many Conservatives and Labour voters would feel the same way, as neither Starmer nor Badenoch can say what the majority of their members would like them to say. And as for Farage, he's going to have to be very nimble on his feet to avoid being tarred by Trump's rapidly evolving but still bizarre foreign policy.

    Precisely so.
    Ukraine support itself is a proxy for a belief in democracy, the rule of law, and European security in toto.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Saudi Arabia?
    Poland?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,462
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Japan will be late in the game. Even if only because they are totally ready - estimates fit the time from “go” to ownership for Japan include a few days/weeks. They have low burn up plutonium, enriched uranium, tritium. And multistage solid fuelled rockets that look like ICBMs.

    All they really need is design.

    Taiwan needs a bit more effort. But they are not far away from a bomb, if they chose.

    South Korea less effort than Taiwan, more than Japan, though.

    Israel has a few hundred multi-stage nukes already, of course.

    I wonder about Ukraine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,710
    edited February 21

    MattW said:

    This Digital Services Tax proposal by Davey could really stir things up, since it will overwhelmingly hit companies from the USA.

    There may be a reaction, as the Digital Services Tax is within the set of "taxes" that may be covered by the "Reciprocal Tariffs" EO put out on 13/2.

    And another one about Digital Services Taxes is due today. Bloomberg:

    President Donald Trump is expected to sign a memorandum Friday that opens the door to levies in response to digital services taxes some countries impose on US tech giants, people familiar with the plans said, the latest step to expand a tariff war aimed at addressing imbalances in global trade.
    https://archive.is/20250221145240/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-21/trump-eyes-tariffs-to-counter-digital-taxes-despised-by-big-tech#selection-1665.0-1665.295

    Keir Starmer may get buttonholed on this. Especially as Ms Macron is around.

    I’ve been arguing for a digital services tax for years.
    Digitalisation tends to monopoly.
    Monopolies should be broken apart, and if that is not feasible, they should incur a tax.

    The essential subsidy bestowed on Amazon versus a high street retailer is absurd.

    That such services are often American should be irrelevant, save that failure to address this issue perpetuates Britain’s hollowing out by a power we must now treat more squarely as a not obviously friendly rival.
    Indeed I agree.

    Our Digital Services Tax on the 20 or so companies it applies to (turnover > £500m iirc) currently raises around £700m per annum.

    It's a big boost he is proposing.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    viewcode said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    It's a sensible political strategy to avoid the second-term lame duck phenomenon.
    There is a teeny possibility that you were actually making a joke there. If so...congratulations?
    no. just the usual sophistry. williamglenn is a genuine lover of dictators and racists.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    I sometimes go to a butcher in Golders Green. Guess what they sell and don’t sell.
    It's completely legal to sell horsemeat in England, but an awful lot of butchers just don't for some reason. I wouldn't describe that as a ban.
    Had some lovely horsemeat in Italy. Would love to be able to get some in London.
  • kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT:
    My local pub doesn't sell bacon.
    My local butcher doesn't sell beer.
    It's an absolute disgrace.
    Woke madness.

    Does your local pub and local butcher only sell halal meat?
    As a small state free marketeer (I presume) surely you should be delighted that firms respond to market forces in their choice of products and services to provide.
    They can include halal meat in areas with significant Muslims they shouldn't stop selling non halal meat, especially if they are a national chain and not a Muslim shop. I am not a pure free marketeer either, just more so than socialist
    Would you also force vegetarian restaurants to serve bacon?
    No, nor would I force Muslim restaurants to but Five Guys is neither
    Well clearly a couple of branches of Five Guys are halal restaurants. Up to them, isn't it? It's like if a branch of Pizza Hut goes vegan.
    What if they serve pineapple?
    I’ll be issuing a fatwa.
    Not a Thin-wa?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,030
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    I doubt Taiwan would announce. Ditto Ukraine. But no doubt they're both working hard.

    Sweden/Finland perhaps, to avoid salami tactics in the Baltic theatre putting pressure on UK/France?

    Whatever happens, this week has advanced the next use of nukes by years. So well done MAGA and cheerleaders. Pretty sure it won't herald the arrival of the Christ either.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,991
    Reckon the Democrats should tell the Ukrainians to sign up a deal with Trump. Which, when they are returned to power, they will generously renegotiate - whilst apologising for their predecessor being such a griting ****.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
    Fine but it's typical with democratic countries. People change their minds. Big whoop. What are you going to do, change policy and governments each time an adverse opinion poll comes out. Only one poll matters and that was back in November.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Mauritius?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
    Hayek, Smith, Rand, Friedman, Kristol, Buckley, Scruton to name just a few rightwing, libertarian or conservative intellectuals
    Try Burke, Oakeshott, Berlin.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,257
    HYUFD said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
    I suspect Vance will be top of the list if he thinks Caesar is going to deny him his shot at the top job!
    When one thinks of the result of the 2019 election here, and compares it to 2024 one wonders what might just, with a bit of luck and a following wind, happen in the USA in 2028.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Japan will be late in the game. Even if only because they are totally ready - estimates fit the time from “go” to ownership for Japan include a few days/weeks. They have low burn up plutonium, enriched uranium, tritium. And multistage solid fuelled rockets that look like ICBMs.

    All they really need is design.

    Taiwan needs a bit more effort. But they are not far away from a bomb, if they chose.

    South Korea less effort than Taiwan, more than Japan, though.

    Israel has a few hundred multi-stage nukes already, of course.

    I wonder about Ukraine.
    Ain't happening in Japan. I have witnessed marches for literally miles and miles protesting against a US nuclear submarine docking in a Japanese harbour. Okay that was 30-odd years ago so perhaps attitudes have changed but they are super anti-nuclear. Or were.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,991
    edited February 21

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Mauritius?
    Ukraine...

    Sell a chunk of their minerals to Israel? Pakistan? In exchange for a dozen nukes.

    Trump could of course do the same.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Israel has had nuclear weapons for years. Everyone knows this. I don't really see why they'd bother to change their official stance around not confirming this.

    But, yes, other countries might well become more interested. Poland wouldn't find it that difficult. Add them to your list.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
    How should we have stopped the US becoming the dominant superpower?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Japan will be late in the game. Even if only because they are totally ready - estimates fit the time from “go” to ownership for Japan include a few days/weeks. They have low burn up plutonium, enriched uranium, tritium. And multistage solid fuelled rockets that look like ICBMs.

    All they really need is design.

    Taiwan needs a bit more effort. But they are not far away from a bomb, if they chose.

    South Korea less effort than Taiwan, more than Japan, though.

    Israel has a few hundred multi-stage nukes already, of course.

    I wonder about Ukraine.
    Ain't happening in Japan. I have witnessed marches for literally miles and miles protesting against a US nuclear submarine docking in a Japanese harbour. Okay that was 30-odd years ago so perhaps attitudes have changed but they are super anti-nuclear. Or were.
    If China invades and captures Taiwan that might change their mind pretty quickly
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Japan will be late in the game. Even if only because they are totally ready - estimates fit the time from “go” to ownership for Japan include a few days/weeks. They have low burn up plutonium, enriched uranium, tritium. And multistage solid fuelled rockets that look like ICBMs.

    All they really need is design.

    Taiwan needs a bit more effort. But they are not far away from a bomb, if they chose.

    South Korea less effort than Taiwan, more than Japan, though.

    Israel has a few hundred multi-stage nukes already, of course.

    I wonder about Ukraine.
    Ain't happening in Japan. I have witnessed marches for literally miles and miles protesting against a US nuclear submarine docking in a Japanese harbour. Okay that was 30-odd years ago so perhaps attitudes have changed but they are super anti-nuclear. Or were.
    If China invades and captures Taiwan that might change their mind pretty quickly
    It may, but China doesn't think Japan is a province of China, whereas it does think that Taiwan is a province of China.

    But of course never say never.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240

    HYUFD said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
    I suspect Vance will be top of the list if he thinks Caesar is going to deny him his shot at the top job!
    When one thinks of the result of the 2019 election here, and compares it to 2024 one wonders what might just, with a bit of luck and a following wind, happen in the USA in 2028.
    Boris was of course seen as all conquering Caesar in 2020 too
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    Taiwan would be very problematic in terms of international law because only 12 countries recognise it as a state.
    Trump is tearing up international law.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,257
    Mango said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Is there a market on the first country to announce that they have acquired nuclear weapons?

    My guess is Taiwan, because I think the effective removal of the US security blanket makes their need pressing. Once Taiwan goes, then I think South Korea and Israel will probably follow. Then Iran.

    I doubt Japan -given its history- will publicly announce nuclear capability. But they will certainly want to be there.

    I doubt Taiwan would announce. Ditto Ukraine. But no doubt they're both working hard.

    Sweden/Finland perhaps, to avoid salami tactics in the Baltic theatre putting pressure on UK/France?

    Whatever happens, this week has advanced the next use of nukes by years. So well done MAGA and cheerleaders. Pretty sure it won't herald the arrival of the Christ either.
    From what I've heard (not here and not public) I'd bet on Taiwan.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think the LDs will gain much, Starmer and Badenoch have equally confirmed support for Zelensky and Ukraine (as to be fair did Truss as PM). Starmer is also very pro EDI unlike Trump and both Starmer and Badenoch as well as Davey oppose Trump's tariffs and Starmer has reiterated support for a 2 state solution between Israel and Palestine. The most pro Trump party is Reform whose voters would never consider the pro EU, pro immigration LDs anyway

    Only the LibDems are going after Trump. I suspect this will be popular with the current LibDem voter base and those the party is targeting for next time.

    I’ve noticed several of them deliberately tagging JD Vance and Musk in their tweets, to provoke a reaction.

    Davey already had an online attack from Musk a few weeks ago. They must have seen the engagement numbers from that and thought “hmm, let’s get a bit more”.
    The Lib Dems are political prostitutes with few punters.
    Pretty weak attack line.

    29 gains more from the Tories and Sir Ed is His Majesty´s leader Leader of the Loyal Opposition.

    The next locals could demonstrate that this is more than possible.

    I am more than sure that there will be increasingly vicious attacks on the Lib Dems, I am increasingly sure that they won´t work.
    Given most current polls have the Tories closer to Labour and Reform than the LDs are to the Tories very unlikely.

    Indeed the Greens are now closer to the LDs than the LDs are to the Tories polling wise
    The Lib Dem national vote percentage is irrelevant- 2024 showed us that. It's all about doing another 30 hyper local campaigns saying "Vote for us, because we're nice people in your community. Even Kemi says so."

    Thirty gains from the Conservatives takes the Lib Dems down to Wiltshire East on the target list. Right now, the scores there are:
    Con 17k
    Labour 12k
    LD 8k
    Ref 8k

    Stretchy, but definitely doable by the yellows.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    edited February 21
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
    Fine but it's typical with democratic countries. People change their minds. Big whoop. What are you going to do, change policy and governments each time an adverse opinion poll comes out. Only one poll matters and that was back in November.
    That Trump won an election does not imply he has support to undermine he checks and balances that Constitution and custom safeguard democracy and the rule of law.

    Nor does it imply that the U.S. public at large agree to align the U.S. against democracies and in favour of authoritarian powers.

    So yes, big whoop.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,295

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    In which case he will be voted out next time round. We have a similar thing here in the UK with Starmer's Lab.
    Trump is chewing through the firewalls that make elections competitive.

    Your complacency is beyond stupid, it is actively malign.
    Correct. And while Topping is not the sharpest he's no fool and he's not a hard right type. So I deduce it's a troll.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    When was the last time an election in this country really changed the direction of the state in the way the last US election did? For a long time we've had virtual continuity here with elections only resulting in a reshuffling of personnel.
    2019 when it delivered Brexit
    And betrayed it by ramping up immigration to record levels.
    No, it ended EU free movement and left the single market and customs union.

    Boris increasing non EU free movement was not related to Brexit and Rishi tightened up the visa wage requirements for non EU migrants and dependents anyway
    The Tory record on dependants looks like this:

    image
    I wonder how many of these students completed their studies, or even turned up.
    I think most of the outright fraud is at the undergraduate level.

    Universities loved foreign postgraduates, because they brought a lot of money, and took very little time: you're basically just throwing open the library and a couple of hours of supervision from a more senior academic every week.

    So, I suspect most of these students were genuine students pursing genuine postgraduate studies... But at the same time, there is no doubt that said students - once here - have been looking at ways to stay. Ironically, it's much easier to stay if you're not married with kids, because the best way to get leave to remain is to be resident in the UK and to marry a UK citizen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    Taiwan is a red (geddit) herring in a way. I am pretty sure that sooner or later China will try to reclaim it (as they see it). That would be whether Trump or Harris or LeBron James is in the White House. And, amongst China - and US - watchers, it is a matter of debate as to whether the US would do anything to prevent it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    edited February 21

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
    How should we have stopped the US becoming the dominant superpower?
    Perhaps by not taking a free ride off them. Perhaps by not slavishly supporting them when it comes to wars, invading others countries and their foreign policy aims. Perhaps by being critical friends.

    Anyway it is done.

    Europe has happily let the US get to this position. We now reap the consequences.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    edited February 21

    Nice to see that the EHRC has written to the Scottish Government and NHS Fife reminding them of their obligations under the Equality Act, reference to the ongoing Sandie Peggie case.

    It will cheaper for taxpayers if they end this ridiculous charade sooner rather than later. The SNP have got themselves into such a muddle on this, especially Swinney. It's almost as if they are incompetent.

    https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/media-centre/news/our-letter-chief-executive-nhs-fife

    Ah, that's interesting. The letter makes reference to the "Workplace (Health, Safety, and Welfare) Regulations 1992", which gender critical Twitter chatter have convinced themselves supersedes/overrides/sets aside the Equality Act 2010.

    As you may be aware, the locus of dispute for NHS Fife is whether they have constructed a correct policy, which in turn depends on the meaning of "sex", specifically whether the "sex" in "single-sex" refers to "legal sex" or "biological sex"[1]. This has obvious implications for the trans woman Dr Beth Upton, who is currently using the facilities and may have the legal sex of "woman" but probably cannot[1][2] have the biological sex of "woman".

    Given that the head of the EHRC is Baroness Kishwer Falkner, a gender critical to the tips of her fingers, this is not surprising. However as to whether which of the two definitions of "sex" pertains for the Equality Act is currently the subject of a Supreme Court case expected to report soon. No doubt that will clear things up.

    Note
    • [1] I hate that term because it is deliberately vague and does not indicate whether the person has a penis or not. But it seems to have become popular
    • [2] The current definition of male or female by gender criticals depends on the size of the gamete and is all sorts of convoluted. What exactly was wrong with chromosomes? You know where you are with a Y-chromosome. It is very difficult to measure the gamete at conception for an adult.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,659
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    What the world knows, and will not unlearn, is that the United States cannot be trusted. Faith in America, and in basic American decency and goodwill, has kept the peace for generations, but that is over. Nations that refrained from getting nuclear weapons because they were secure under the American umbrella will rush to get bombs. Nations that resisted China’s bullying will make their accommodations. The Taiwanese can kiss their independence and their freedom goodbye. Formerly close allies will not share intelligence about impending terrorist threats. Our trading partners will make other plans and find other markets wherever possible. International lenders will think twice before underwriting more American debt.

    https://www.thebulwark.com/p/america-joins-the-jackals?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium==&utm_campaign=s

    They (you?) are upset that they are trying to bring about peace in Ukraine when the quote criticises them for no longer being peacekeepers?
    It is not peace in Ukraine they trying to bring about, it is surrender.
    What would you suggest. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and it has long been my position that they should not enter into peace negotiations if they don't want to and it is up to them to decide. Fine.

    But they are also beholden and dependent upon apparently the most malign actor in the world who has said they might not want to continue to fund the war.

    Where does sovereignty intersect with such dependency.
    Sovereignty and dependency and its intersection? This is what most of us would call being part of a civilised community of friendly nations. Done in various ways, Latvia does it by membership of NATO. Ukraine has not had that opportunity, so depends on a community of nations who believe in sovereignty, self determination and shared values to help out.

    If, and let us hope this is unlikely, Russia decided that it would simply occupy and own and run neutral R o Ireland, in military terms it's a walkover. They just do it as long as they display sufficient stark brutality. Unless of course Ireland's civilised friends lent a hand.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
    Fine but it's typical with democratic countries. People change their minds. Big whoop. What are you going to do, change policy and governments each time an adverse opinion poll comes out. Only one poll matters and that was back in November.
    That Trump won an election does not imply he has support to undermine he checks and balances that Constitution and custom hem in his own power.

    Nor does it imply that the U.S. public at large agree to align the U.S. against democracies and in favour of authoritarian powers.

    So yes, big whoop.
    What does the "US public at large" mean and what does it matter. It has long been a bone of contention to the losers that UK governments win the election with 30-odd percent of the vote.

    As I recall, Trump won conclusively in November so you're just howling at the moon and your emotions have overcome what lucid analysis you were once capable of.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    In which case he will be voted out next time round. We have a similar thing here in the UK with Starmer's Lab.
    Trump is chewing through the firewalls that make elections competitive.

    Your complacency is beyond stupid, it is actively malign.
    Correct. And while Topping is not the sharpest he's no fool and he's not a hard right type. So I deduce it's a troll.
    Which brings me back to my original question.
    What kind of satisfaction does he derive?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
    How should we have stopped the US becoming the dominant superpower?
    Perhaps by not taking a free ride off them. Perhaps by not slavishly supporting them when it comes to wars, invading others countries and their foreign policy aims. Perhaps by being critical friends.

    Anyway it is done.

    Europe has happily let the US get to this position. We now reap the consequences.
    We tried going our own way with Suez and look at how that went. Europe was not in a position to challenge US supremacy for many years, and we were banded together by the threat of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. I think it's simplistic to characterise that all as "taking a free ride off them".
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,871
    "Zelenskyy to sign mineral deal with US soon-White House"

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1892972161020633331
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
    Hayek, Smith, Rand, Friedman, Kristol, Buckley, Scruton to name just a few rightwing, libertarian or conservative intellectuals
    Try Burke, Oakeshott, Berlin.
    Shoestring, Taggart, spender, Bergerac, Morse
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    In which case he will be voted out next time round. We have a similar thing here in the UK with Starmer's Lab.
    Trump is chewing through the firewalls that make elections competitive.

    Your complacency is beyond stupid, it is actively malign.
    Correct. And while Topping is not the sharpest he's no fool and he's not a hard right type. So I deduce it's a troll.
    Even people as dumb as @kamski can work out your and other PB posters' bleatings are simply the wailings of sulky student leftists being told that the Barclays branch in the Student Union will remain open.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
    Fine but it's typical with democratic countries. People change their minds. Big whoop. What are you going to do, change policy and governments each time an adverse opinion poll comes out. Only one poll matters and that was back in November.
    That Trump won an election does not imply he has support to undermine he checks and balances that Constitution and custom hem in his own power.

    Nor does it imply that the U.S. public at large agree to align the U.S. against democracies and in favour of authoritarian powers.

    So yes, big whoop.
    What does the "US public at large" mean and what does it matter. It has long been a bone of contention to the losers that UK governments win the election with 30-odd percent of the vote.

    As I recall, Trump won conclusively in November so you're just howling at the moon and your emotions have overcome what lucid analysis you were once capable of.
    Your argument seems to be that Trump won in November and so anything is now possible, and maybe (it’s hard to tell), laudable.

    Which is simply an argument for authoritarian rule.

    Perhaps you should change your name to Bottoming.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
    Hayek, Smith, Rand, Friedman, Kristol, Buckley, Scruton to name just a few rightwing, libertarian or conservative intellectuals
    Try Burke, Oakeshott, Berlin.
    Shoestring, Taggart, spender, Bergerac, Morse
    Lovejoy, Van der Valk, Dalgleish.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 908
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
    I suspect Vance will be top of the list if he thinks Caesar is going to deny him his shot at the top job!
    When one thinks of the result of the 2019 election here, and compares it to 2024 one wonders what might just, with a bit of luck and a following wind, happen in the USA in 2028.
    Boris was of course seen as all conquering Caesar in 2020 too
    Not universally, I seem to recall a few Tories/Tories predicting that Boris would ultimately be brought down by his personal flaws. In the end it was so.

    Problem is, it's much more difficult to take down a sitting President. Impeachment is the only mechanism, absent illness or death, and that's proven to be a very high bar.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907

    "Zelenskyy to sign mineral deal with US soon-White House"

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1892972161020633331

    If people keep rolling over and giving this fucker what he wants he will just be more emboldened.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    That may be so.

    But if Topping or others believe “this is all fine because Americans voted for it”, then he’s an idiot.

    It’s not fine.
    And it’s not at all obvious Americans voted for it.
    No one said it's fine or not fine (although I'm always interested in how you would handle the Ukraine situation). I said it is democracy.

    It is not at all obvious that "Britons" voted for what Keir Starmer's Labour Party are doing.

    And so we need people like you, I assume, to tell us what they _really_ voted for, amiright?
    I am talking about America and referring to polling.
    No strawmen from you, thanks.
    Fine but it's typical with democratic countries. People change their minds. Big whoop. What are you going to do, change policy and governments each time an adverse opinion poll comes out. Only one poll matters and that was back in November.
    That Trump won an election does not imply he has support to undermine he checks and balances that Constitution and custom hem in his own power.

    Nor does it imply that the U.S. public at large agree to align the U.S. against democracies and in favour of authoritarian powers.

    So yes, big whoop.
    What does the "US public at large" mean and what does it matter. It has long been a bone of contention to the losers that UK governments win the election with 30-odd percent of the vote.

    As I recall, Trump won conclusively in November so you're just howling at the moon and your emotions have overcome what lucid analysis you were once capable of.
    Your argument seems to be that Trump won in November and so anything is now possible, and maybe (it’s hard to tell), laudable.

    Which is simply an argument for authoritarian rule.

    Perhaps you should change your name to Bottoming.
    Oh ffs. Trump was elected on a platform of America First. He and his administration are now putting that platform into effect.

    You are saying oh we don't like this platform that he was elected on and that's fair enough, you don't have to like it. But it is what the US voters wanted and he is doing what he said he would do.

    Why is this a surprise to you. As for authoritarian rule, may I refer you to November 5th 2024. And if not anything, then an awful lot is possible if you are America. Deal with it. Aren't you living and paying tax dollars there now?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    edited February 21

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
    How should we have stopped the US becoming the dominant superpower?
    Perhaps by not taking a free ride off them. Perhaps by not slavishly supporting them when it comes to wars, invading others countries and their foreign policy aims. Perhaps by being critical friends.

    Anyway it is done.

    Europe has happily let the US get to this position. We now reap the consequences.
    We tried going our own way with Suez and look at how that went. Europe was not in a position to challenge US supremacy for many years, and we were banded together by the threat of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. I think it's simplistic to characterise that all as "taking a free ride off them".
    Free Ride, maybe unfair, but we have not paid our way proportionate to the US and happily done that. Partly, as you say, due to the Cold War.

    We allowed them to take the lead and meekly followed. Even into I’ll fated ventures like Iraq.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,198
    .
    Foxy said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Presumably Bannon's gesture was a Roman salute then.


    ScruffNazi.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    Taz said:

    "Zelenskyy to sign mineral deal with US soon-White House"

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1892972161020633331

    If people keep rolling over and giving this fucker what he wants he will just be more emboldened.
    The source that Ukraine is going to roll over and give the White House minerals is the White House demanding those minerals.

    That's like me saying I'm going to marry Kylie Minogue - it may be my wish but it isn't reality...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    edited February 21
    The Austrian military occasionally do an English language briefing on the Ukraine War. I don't mention it here because it's irregular and lengthy (ooh-er). But today's briefing has a display of the Russian territorial demands for end-of-war. It's...horrendous, and would make Ukraine a land-locked country a third of its pre-war size. The link is here.

    https://youtu.be/IDRjughhXMg?si=PJFJ50lA0D9w1DHF&t=1070
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Polling is starting to suggest that, actually, Americans don’t agree with the specific cruelties and corruptions of Trump in power.

    I don’t believe Americans support cosying up to Putin, nor the up-ending of 80 years of geopolitical strategy.
    Too late now.
    Yep. I don't particularly have a problem with Trump's Cultural Revolution trashing America, it's when he trashes the rest of the world that I object. We didn't get a vote.
    Perhaps we shouldn’t have let the US get into a position where it can do that.
    How should we have stopped the US becoming the dominant superpower?
    Perhaps by not taking a free ride off them. Perhaps by not slavishly supporting them when it comes to wars, invading others countries and their foreign policy aims. Perhaps by being critical friends.

    Anyway it is done.

    Europe has happily let the US get to this position. We now reap the consequences.
    We tried going our own way with Suez and look at how that went. Europe was not in a position to challenge US supremacy for many years, and we were banded together by the threat of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact. I think it's simplistic to characterise that all as "taking a free ride off them".
    Free Ride, maybe unfair, but we have not paid our way proportionate to the US and happily done that. Partly, as you say, due to the Cold War.
    And, to be fair, the US was happy for this state of affairs. The US wanted to be the dominant superpower, the one in charge. They budgeted accordingly, and acted accordingly.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Zelenskyy to sign mineral deal with US soon-White House"

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1892972161020633331

    If people keep rolling over and giving this fucker what he wants he will just be more emboldened.
    The source that Ukraine is going to roll over and give the White House minerals is the White House demanding those minerals.

    That's like me saying I'm going to marry Kylie Minogue - it may be my wish but it isn't reality...
    Congratulations on your forthcoming nuptials.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,240
    Unpopular said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    This isn’t a joke—Trump and MAGA are openly pushing for his dictatorship.

    At CPAC, where Trump is set to speak, MAGA activists launched the “Third Term Project,” comparing him to Julius Caesar and calling to keep him in power beyond 2028.

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1892968771469381650

    ===

    The campaign is using a drawing of Trump as Caesar.

    Candidates for the job of Brutus please form an orderly queue!
    I suspect Vance will be top of the list if he thinks Caesar is going to deny him his shot at the top job!
    When one thinks of the result of the 2019 election here, and compares it to 2024 one wonders what might just, with a bit of luck and a following wind, happen in the USA in 2028.
    Boris was of course seen as all conquering Caesar in 2020 too
    Not universally, I seem to recall a few Tories/Tories predicting that Boris would ultimately be brought down by his personal flaws. In the end it was so.

    Problem is, it's much more difficult to take down a sitting President. Impeachment is the only mechanism, absent illness or death, and that's proven to be a very high bar.
    Trump has already been impeached twice, if the Dems win the midterms he will almost certainly be again and if the Democrats win a Senate landslide he could even be convicted.

    Otherwise the constitution bans him being elected for a 3rd term
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    edited February 21
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As someone who rejoiced when democracy prevailed and Trump was elected I am interested to understand what, when we are able to understand this from some (temporal) distance, the implications of these seeming random, chaotic, and impulsive policy directives and announcements.

    Vance yday reiterated the America First doctrine and that is surely why Trump was elected.

    If we were to gather into a room all of the Hard Remainer One Nation Cameroony Conservatives in the whole of England who are also Donald Trump supporters I wonder who would be sitting there on his lonesome with nobody to talk to?

    Yep. That's how special you are.
    Thats clearly not true as I think I am that as well. Anyway better to have your own convictions that go with a herd just for comfort
    Really? Seriously? Because Topping is only trolling on the Trump support. So if you're serious about it, and you're genuinely also a One Nation Socially Liberal Strong Remainer Tory, then it's YOU sitting there all on your own in that room instead. Terrible lonely fate!
    Who are these idiots?
    What do they derive from trolling-for-Trump?
    I can’t see what is wrong with what Topping is saying in the sense Trump was elected on an America first basis and is working on that.
    Sure: he was elected on the basis of grievance, that the rest of the world was taking advantage of the US. And that he would redress that balance.

    Unfortunately - and I speak as someone who lives in the US, and love the US and its people - I think he will manage the opposite.

    I think his tariffs policies will be counterproductive, and I think he underestimates the benefits that have accrued to the US for being the leader of the free world. I think he's also so caught up on Oppositionalism, that he is likely to significantly damage the competitiveness of the US by attempting to slow the inevitable electrification of energy.

    I also think his actions will encourage nuclear proliferation, and may well result in many countries falling into the Chinese orbit, because (while the Chinese government is awful), they don't publicly humiliate them on Twitter.

  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    1984 as "instruction manual".

    Oh god. Of all the negatives of the "new right" their sheer unremitting triteness has to be towards the top of the list.

    Yawn yawn yawn.

    Apart from anything else they show how little Orwell that they have read!

    He did criticise and lampoon Communism, but it was from a very left wing perspective. In animal Farm he was against Napoleon, but certainly against the Farmer too. His sympathies were always with the revolutionaries.
    The right have no genuine intellectual heroes of their own so they have to twist and purloin from the left.

    They even try it with Martin Luther King! He'd have been anti-woke apparently.
    Hayek, Smith, Rand, Friedman, Kristol, Buckley, Scruton to name just a few rightwing, libertarian or conservative intellectuals
    Try Burke, Oakeshott, Berlin.
    Shoestring, Taggart, spender, Bergerac, Morse
    Lovejoy, Van der Valk, Dalgleish.
    What does that tell you about regional,detectives ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Zelenskyy to sign mineral deal with US soon-White House"

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1892972161020633331

    If people keep rolling over and giving this fucker what he wants he will just be more emboldened.
    The source that Ukraine is going to roll over and give the White House minerals is the White House demanding those minerals.

    That's like me saying I'm going to marry Kylie Minogue - it may be my wish but it isn't reality...
    I was taking JJ’s post on trust. Didn’t read the tweet.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,325
    edited February 21
    Is liz Truss a useful idiot, or a useless idiot?
This discussion has been closed.