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Oh dear, oh dear – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,485
    edited February 19

    BJO Fans please explain why we didn't have an election between 1935 and 1945.
    The Ukrainian Constitution specifically defers elections in a time of war, IIRC.

    And no, Zelensky didn’t write that bit.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,838

    I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    I’m not a big drinker so instead will watch the football and indulge in loads of unhealthy comfort food !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,485

    You should be more concerned with the cokehead from Kiev's behaviour that is totally counter productive than asking explanations from 90 years ago.
    Interesting that you think repeating MAGA talking points is the way to go.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,214

    We don't need to hitch wagons.

    We need to confidently lead in British interests as a nation that believes in itself.
    Too bloody right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,322
    Nigelb said:

    Having visited my dad in a care home for several years, I can only say that dementia symptoms seem to very considerably between individuals.
    And in the early stages, doctors aren't all that good at diagnosing it with any degree of certainty either.

    I've no idea either way with Trump. But I'm comfortable with the colloquial diagnosis of a screw loose.
    It's bad not mad, I think. He's a nasty nasty guy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,214

    Kemi has put out a statement in support of Zelensky, Ukraine and increased defence spending

    Farage and Reform are silent and that cannot continue
    I thought Kemi got her statement about right.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,322

    Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
    But note how she feels she has to include a prominent "President Trump is right that ..." para.

    It's a gangster dynamic he's established and it's totally deliberate.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    There has to be now though
    The obvious concern is that the notion of raising defence spending only lasts as long as the Government doesn't have to make a decision on who pays the bill.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,305
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Zelensky should visit the new German Chancellor, likely the more hardline anti Putin Merz, after the German elections next week then follow that with a visit to Beijing and Xi.

    He needs to show Trump cannot dictate peace terms to Ukraine with Putin but he has world powers also demanding he be involved
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,780
    TimS said:

    The Vance tweet is incredibly childish. Are these people 9 years old?
    They're not nine years old. They're brutes. Thugs. Or, to be more polite, people with a brutal realist view of power and how to apply it. And if we are to survive in this brave new world we have to do one of the following
    • i) fight: Get strong fast, build up the armed forces, compete as near-peers
    • ii) run/hide. Leave NATO et al and leave the world to its own devices
    • iii) kneel. Agree and obey Trump at every opportunity
    I hope for i). I fear iii). Looking at Starmer, Badenoch and Farage I believe iii) will come to pass. If anybody can offer me a better prognosis I will be pleased to listen... :(
  • 2% of Lib Dems think Ukraine are mostly responsible for the war

    All parties have their extremes
    Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,767
    Nigelb said:

    Do it.

    The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT
    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172

    Would that be the EU leadership can decide, QMV or Unanimity?

    TLDR: can Hungary stop it?

    I might be quite inclined to say send most of it straight to Ukraine not to EU members, if they like with a condition to spend on European or Ukrainian defence equipment.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    nico67 said:

    Celebrating the fall of Zelenskyy is shameful.
    Not my fault its his.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”
  • I think I'm going to just focus on getting pissed again.

    World's gone mad.

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,786
    edited February 19
    kinabalu said:

    But note how she feels she has to include a prominent "President Trump is right that ..." para.

    It's a gangster dynamic he's established and it's totally deliberate.
    Nothing Kemi said about Trump was anything but accurate and as a conservative I am pleased with her statement and of course, Farage and Reform look increasingly on the wrong side of history
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    Probably because he likes and agrees with Vladimir Putin. Putin has built the kind of autocracy to which Trump aspires.

    Lifting sanctions on Russia ought also to knock a couple of dollars off the price of a barrel of crude.
  • Don't forget the nice people who get church roofs fixed. They're just as bad.

    (Which of the voices in her head fed her that line? Has any politician ever risen to the top via a sucsessful fundraising campaign for St Edward's?)
    The omnishambles budget clobbered them with VAT. First George Osborne came for the pasty-eaters, then for ‘the Conservative Party at prayer’ maintaining their churches.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,999

    Not my fault its his.
    A scumbag when backing Corbyn's antisemitism then, a scumbag backing Putin now.
  • Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

  • eekeek Posts: 29,399

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    Because that is why Trump has got his Ukraine world view from...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255
    MattW said:

    Would that be the EU leadership can decide, QMV or Unanimity?

    TLDR: can Hungary stop it?

    I might be quite inclined to say send most of it straight to Ukraine not to EU members, if they like with a condition to spend on European or Ukrainian defence equipment.
    I don't know; we'll see.
    Either way, they don't have long to make their minds up. Act now, or face irrelevance. Or worse.
  • Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
    There is always someone isn't there
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,452

    But 92% of Reform voters don't?

    I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,305
    edited February 19
    While Conservative and Reform voters prefer nearly every former Conservative PM to Starmer in that Yougov poll, only Reform voters prefer Truss to Starmer with Tory voters split. Maybe a Liz defection to Farage on the cards?

    Labour voters unsurprisingly prefer Starmer to every former Tory PM as do LD voters except for where John Major is the alternative, they split evenly between Major and Starmer

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51645-how-do-britons-feel-keir-starmer-compares-to-previous-prime-ministers
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,254

    Not my fault its his.
    Nor is it our fault that you’re a fascist, Jew-hating, piece of shit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,452

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    If Trump really was a Russian agent what more would he do?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,780

    Going off a couple of comments I'm getting on my YouTube I must be in the 0.2% of LibDems who isn't just pro Putin but is also pro-Nazi...
    JustBuyAMercedesBenz770
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255
    From a few days back.

    Spain reverses nuclear phase-out plans
    https://www.neimagazine.com/news/spain-reverses-nuclear-phase-out-plans/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,931

    Kemi has put out a statement in support of Zelensky, Ukraine and increased defence spending

    Farage and Reform are silent and that cannot continue
    Nigel must feel he's in a frightful bind. He's been dining out on his friendship with Donald for years, but must know Donald will terminate it in a jiffy at the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's not as if Donald would even grant him some leeway for tactical reasons - it's either slavish loyalty with Donald or you're a sworn enemy. What to do?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,337

    You should be more concerned with the cokehead from Kiev's behaviour that is totally counter productive than asking explanations from 90 years ago.
    I've flagged you for disgusting comments
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,468
    edited February 19
    viewcode said:

    They're not nine years old. They're brutes. Thugs. Or, to be more polite, people with a brutal realist view of power and how to apply it. And if we are to survive in this brave new world we have to do one of the following
    • i) fight: Get strong fast, build up the armed forces, compete as near-peers
    • ii) run/hide. Leave NATO et al and leave the world to its own devices
    • iii) kneel. Agree and obey Trump at every opportunity
    I hope for i). I fear iii). Looking at Starmer, Badenoch and Farage I believe iii) will come to pass. If anybody can offer me a better prognosis I will be pleased to listen... :(
    ii is a possibility for several currently very quiet Southern and Western European countries, and they’re in an enviable position in that respect, though not a particularly honourable one.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    Scott_xP said:

    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.

    When governments lie to people to get their way, as was his policy, it corrodes and degrades us all.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,261
    Foxy said:

    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Presumably because they get their information from an online right wing echo chamber heavily shaped by Russian psyops operations.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,322
    Scott_xP said:

    These people cannot fuck far enough off

    @MrHarryCole
    Now Vance piles in on “disgraceful ” Zelensky — tells
    @RaheemKassam


    “The idea that he’s going to litigate his disagreements with the president in the public square…. This is not a good way to deal with President Trump”

    Adds: “Of course, the Ukrainians are going to have their perspective. The way to surface that is in a private discussion with American diplomats… he’s attacking the only reason this country exists, publicly, right now. And it’s disgraceful. And it’s not something that is going to move the President of the United States. In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect.”

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
  • She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    The problem with any tax rise is it is rare to be hypotecated and of course there are many different taxes, but we are approaching the time to address the tax and ni unfairness on the workers and increase taxes for those on unearned incomes

    But then, everyone is happy for tax rises as long as it is not them

    I have just noticed to add to the problems gilts seem to be rising
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
    Pinot Noir.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    edited February 19
    Musk wants to kick "retard" Zelensky off Twitter

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulsingh.bsky.social/post/3likeokj7rc2f
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,780
    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    I'm beginning to really like him.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173

    She has given unconditional backing to increased defence spending. Politically, that could turn out to matter a lot. Could the Tories now vote against a tax rise to fund it, for example?

    Easily. They can demand defence be funded through cuts instead (provided, as always, that they that they don't affect the state pension, property or other assets - disability benefits and universal credit are the obvious targets.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    Foss said:
    We need to know where it plans to land, and the convene a "conference" of the delinquent world leaders in the right place, at just the right time...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Musk wants to kick "retard" Zelensky off Twitter

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulsingh.bsky.social/post/3likeokj7rc2f

    Elon Musk = Leon Skum
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107
    viewcode said:

    I'm beginning to really like him.
    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
  • I've flagged you for disgusting comments
    I do not like flagging but @bigjohnowls has been utterly disgusting and is out of order
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,107

    We need to know where it plans to land, and the convene a "conference" of the delinquent world leaders in the right place, at just the right time...
    Trump is apparently frustrated by delays to the replacement Air Force One jets.

    Musk has offered to speed up the process, by eliminating things like safety checks.

    Go ahead lads. Have at it. Soon as you like...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,485
    Scott_xP said:

    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
    Er no. He was a shill who jumped ship.

    It took a phone call to Potato Boy to get Pence to do the right thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,255
    kinabalu said:

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
    Shorter Vance:
    "Pipe down while we sell you out."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    Scott_xP said:

    When the book of Trump is written, he will be a hero
    "Don't sit on the fence", by Mike Pence.
  • Nigel must feel he's in a frightful bind. He's been dining out on his friendship with Donald for years, but must know Donald will terminate it in a jiffy at the slightest hint of disloyalty. It's not as if Donald would even grant him some leeway for tactical reasons - it's either slavish loyalty with Donald or you're a sworn enemy. What to do?
    Whatever he decides, he has about forty minutes until he's on GB News to tell... not everyone, but a few thousand viewers.

    I'm sure that Mr Tell-It-Like-It-Is will have something to say.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255

    A Russian-speaking friend, who keeps an eye on the Russian media, just asked me, "Why is Trump repeating the same wording as Russia uses?"
    In all likelihood Trump doesn't read anything that says otherwise. He's vastly more likely to read promoted comments on social media, like Truth Social and Twitter that both swing heavily MAGA/Russia, than mere trifles like the top secret Daily Presidential Brief. In fact we know that's beyond him because we've been told the intelligence agencies had to dumb it down before.

    So the US President is manipulated or disinformed by social media like many of his followers, and you can be certain that all sorts of malign actors bend his ear, and those of his associates, as well.
  • pigeon said:

    Easily. They can demand defence be funded through cuts instead (provided, as always, that they that they don't affect the state pension, property or other assets - disability benefits and universal credit are the obvious targets.)

    Yes, they could. I am not sure the politics of it works, though. Saying you will back increased defence spending and then opposing it does not look great.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,021
    edited February 19

    There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,565

    Please stay off the Madri.

    It isn't worth it.
    One of my colleagues genuinely believes that they've been drinking it in Madrid for decades. Bless.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,078
    OllyT said:

    That is truly pathetic even by your standards as one of the few Trump apologists on PB.
    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,928
    Foxy said:

    Only 67% think Russia entirely or mostly responsible for the war.

    Reform in noticeably more pro-putin than the other parties.
    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,485
    a

    One of my colleagues genuinely believes that they've been drinking it in Madrid for decades. Bless.
    Order a Stinger instead.

    I’ve made it a mission to reintroduce them in as many cocktail bars as I can.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    Leon said:

    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    The soldiers just wandered into Ukraine on their own.

    You probably think pronouns justify a Russian invasion of the EU.
  • Leon said:

    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    So does Putin have a right to invade Blighty for being a member of NATO?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    edited February 19
    kinabalu said:

    But Trump can smear and slag off anybody and that's just fine.
    Trump and his acolytes like to slap America's ex-allies about the face. They don't treat the autocrats like that. By their friends shall ye know them.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,979
    Scott_xP said:

    This fucking clown should pipe down as well

    @BorisJohnson
    When are we Europeans going to stop being scandalised about Donald Trump and start helping him to end this war?

    Of course Ukraine didn’t start the war. You might as well say that America attacked Japan at Pearl Harbor.

    Of course a country undergoing a violent invasion should not be staging elections. There was no general election in the UK from 1935 to 1945.

    Of course Zelenskyy’s ratings are not 4%. They are actually about the same as Trump’s.

    Trump’s statements are not intended to be historically accurate but to shock Europeans into action.

    In particular the US can see $300bn of frozen Russian assets - mainly in Belgium. That is cash that could and should be used to pay Ukraine and compensate the US for its support.

    Why is Europe preventing the unfreezing of Putin’s cash?

    The US believes Belgium, France and other countries are blocking. It’s absurd. We need to get serious and fast.

    Man, that’s going to be my go to excuse when caught out.

    My suggestion that the dog was responsible for that dreadful fart was not intended to be historically accurate.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 564

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1892261032870994064

    Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail

    To the tune of the Godfather.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,778

    Gilts are rising across Europe in anticipation of defence bonds. They do look like the best option as things stand. If we are serious about our defence, if we really do believe in the Blitz spirit stuff, we are all going to have accept a hit. Our grandparents sacrificed a hell of a lot more than it will cost us.

    I still don't understand this. What's the point in increase defence spending when there is no appetite to ever use it? We've had Salisbury, Ukraine, MH17, cables in the Baltic and we've done nothing at all.

    I think this sudden interest in increasing spending is a displacement activity, designed to make people feel good while having zero effect on Russia (but costing us billions).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,565
    Leon said:

    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    Bollocks we do.

    I'm surprised that you're able to post this evening after the unsavoury incident at the Raducanu match. I assume that was you?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    Leon said:

    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,361

    I think we now need to stop pretending that this guy has any noble intentions at heart here and it’s all just a clever negotiating ruse.

    The man clearly holds democratic Europe in distain and we should shape our policy accordingly.
    Although the implication that a “modestly successful comedian” could talk the US into giving him $350bn gives the rest of us some hope…
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,484
    Leon said:

    Russia isn’t entirely responsible for the war

    NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia, then we did exactly that. Then we wrestled over Ukraine itself, part of which is regarded as sacred Russia by Russians

    Is Putin an evil murderous autocrat who launched a barbarous invasion causing a European tragedy and killing half a million purple? Yes yes yes. Does the west have *some* responsibility for stupidly goading and mishandling Russia? Also yes
    I didn't get round to replying to your previous post due to work. But it is worth pointing out that Kyiv has only been Russian since 1709. Before that it was Polish, and before that Lithuanian. Kyivan Rus broke up in the 11th century and then the assorted Slav grand duchies and principalities were occupied by Lithuania and then the Rzeczpospolita in the West, and the Golden Horse in the East. Which was the beginning of the cultural divide between Ukraine and Muscovy. To give any credence to the idea that Kyiv is the foundation stone of Russian culture is presposterous.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,051
    murali_s said:

    @williamglenn is the site’s clown and a little sh*t. Nothing more, nothing less…
    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,255

    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
    No, it's another Russian lie. Frankly it should even need refuting, about 1 seconds thought ought to be enough to realise that NATO would never give Russia a veto on expansion, because if NATO did so Russia would block all expansion.

    https://www.nato.int/cps/ra/natohq/115204.htm

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    Wait until you find out what Churchill and Chamberlain did in WW2…
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,484

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    He doesn't have to be. I'm happy with him killing more Russians, preferably until their army collapses
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,484

    "NATO and the West promised not to push NATO to the frontiers of Russia,"

    Is that actually the case? In which treaty or agreement is it mentioned?
    Gorbachev denied that the promise was ever made
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,546
    Eabhal said:

    I still don't understand this. What's the point in increase defence spending when there is no appetite to ever use it? We've had Salisbury, Ukraine, MH17, cables in the Baltic and we've done nothing at all.

    I think this sudden interest in increasing spending is a displacement activity, designed to make people feel good while having zero effect on Russia (but costing us billions).
    The world of tomorrow may not be the world of yesterday.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,858

    Although the implication that a “modestly successful comedian” could talk the US into giving him $350bn gives the rest of us some hope…
    Imagine he was actually a really successful comedian. Could get that into the trillions.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,138
    Foxy said:

    If Trump really was a Russian agent what more would he do?
    As well as Trump what about Hegseth and Gabbard?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,838
    Perhaps the ridiculous idea spouted by the new Trump loving Mandelson of another state visit will bite the dust now !
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,546

    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
    Amateur devil's advocate, surely?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888

    Gorbachev denied that the promise was ever made
    I know, which was why I asked the question.

    It does sound like there was some discussion at one meeting back in the early nineties, but that's very different from a signed-and-sealed agreement or treaty. Especially given Russia's imperialist behaviour since.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,337

    Zelenskyy may not have singlehandedly have canceled elections, but he definitely banned opposition parties, jailed critics, and shut down media he didn’t like but sure, let’s pretend he’s a beacon of democracy.

    putin apologist!!
  • Just to add to the depression what happens next week if Germany elect a right leadership with AFD support ?

    Just extraordinary times we are living through
  • putin apologist!!
    After today you have to ask the difference between Trump and Putin as I cannot detect any at all
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,078

    Why do you two always wade in to put a nasty boot in from the left-wing to anyone who doesn't share your politics?

    Rather unedifying, to say the least.

    William is a professional devil's advocate. We don't need the abuse.
    If it a parody account then I apologise, if not then everything I have said about him holds…
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,838

    Just to add to the depression what happens next week if Germany elect a right leadership with AFD support ?

    Just extraordinary times we are living through

    The AFD are likely to come second but there’s no way the likely winners the CDU will do any deal with them to form a government.

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 564
    Scott_xP said:

    @Mike_Pence
    Mr. President, Ukraine did not “start” this war. Russia launched an unprovoked and brutal invasion claiming hundreds of thousands of lives. The Road to Peace must be built on the Truth.🇺🇸🇺🇦

    “Russia Invades Ukraine in Largest European Attack Since WWII”

    https://x.com/Mike_Pence/status/1892271536394162229

    Interesting approach to the Cult but then he has inside knowledge. One politician to watch.
This discussion has been closed.