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Oh dear, oh dear – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,373
edited March 8 in General
Oh dear, oh dear – politicalbetting.com

Keir Starmer beats only Liz Truss in our 'best PM' head to head contests against former prime ministers Starmer is better than… Truss: +30 lead Public dividedSunak: -3Johnson: -3May: -4 Starmer is worse than… Cameron: -17Thatcher: -19Major: -23Brown: -30Blair: -35

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,286
    First?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    First?

    Hardly surprising given you posted the header
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,387
    Insider trading
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,293
    Remind me who Liz Truss was again?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,293
    eek said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    First?

    Hardly surprising given you posted the header
    I demand a judge-led inquiry.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 599
    There seems to be some sort of memory fade depending on the time gap between PM's. It only goes to underline just how bad Truss was.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 599
    Back to Trump. Seems the hopes of another of his supporting groups are going to be dashed.

    What to expect as Trump’s anti-labor agenda takes shape

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/5151459-trump-anti-worker-nlrb-unions/
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    Battlebus said:

    There seems to be some sort of memory fade depending on the time gap between PM's. It only goes to underline just how bad Truss was.

    In a couple of years the question of who was PM when the queen died is going to be pub question most people get wrong
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,936
    John Major is a bit of a surprise. Polling quite well when you consider unrelenting hatred and contempt that pounded him throughout his tenure until the final, brutal eviction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,371
    edited February 19
    I suspect Sir John Major will be delighted that 27 years after 1997 he beats Starmer by a larger margin than any other former Tory PM, even Thatcher. Though Blair beats him by most, suggesting Blair still remains the most electorally appealing living PM we have had.

    Theresa May I suspect will be secretly pleased that she beats Starmer by 1% more than Boris does and Rishi delighted while he beats Starmer Liz is still trounced, even by Sir Keir
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,442
    eek said:

    Battlebus said:

    There seems to be some sort of memory fade depending on the time gap between PM's. It only goes to underline just how bad Truss was.

    In a couple of years the question of who was PM when the queen died is going to be pub question most people get wrong
    Is it? Seems quite memorable to me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,930
    FPT:
    viewcode said:

    CharlieShark said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kamski said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    TDS continues. Latest comment on my channel: "I get it, it's a Tesla fanboy channel, people with no moral qualms about facilitating the the rise of Nazim in the USA and Europe. Have you resigned from the Lib Dems yet?"

    Erm, I'm not a fanboi - I upset those by taking the piss out of Musk and calling out Tesla flaws. And I'm facilitating what? How? And why would I resign from the LibDems?

    Too many self-righteous wazzocks out there, full of themselves and how all right-thinking people must think like them.

    Must be terrible if you actually drive one of those nazimobiles these days.
    The thinking person's term is "Swasticar"

    I do confess to having offered a mild excuse to a party colleague on Saturday when they saw I drove a Tesla. I find Musk's politics to be embarrassingly absurd. And when I say embarrassed I mean for him - he's making an absolute tit of himself.

    But that doesn't impact onto his companies. I love my Tesla. Starlink has transformed my ability to do business. And I'm agog every time SpaceX smash another impossible mission goal. I think the hand-wringer types think that I should sell the Tesla and bin Starlink with the £££ and business costs being a suitable price for their morality. No thanks.

    And as its confessional time I love Michael Jackson music, think Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and enjoy Harry Potter. I know, I know...
    Imagine comparing JK Rowling to MJ, Elon Musk and Kevin Spacey. Vile.
    Both JK Rowling and Elon Musk believe that men cannot become women under any circumstances, surgical or otherwise, and agitate continously to that end. They are both billionaires and contribute portions of their wealth to that cause. In what way are they not comparable?
    One of the more callous things that Trump has done, reportedly, in moving transwomen to Mens' Prisons, is that he has included those who have had surgery to give them female genitalia (simulated female genitalia if that is your line).

    Were it to happen widely, that would generate rapes of post-surgical transwomen by inmates of mens' prisons, or have them in permanent solitary for their own safety.

    My view is that that is the sort of consequence Trump & Co would not give a damn about - just as they are not afaics addressing the consequences for the civilians in a long term Russian-occupied portion of Ukraine, or for children of immigrant families they wrench away from their parents (they already closed the agency which was trying to reunite them from last time round when Trump did it in term 1).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-transgender-executive-order-prison-lawsuit-b2696415.html

    This is still in play, because it is one area where Temporary Restraining Orders are in place against the relevant Executive Order, on the basis of likely illegality and immediate, serious consequences which would not be adequately addressed by damages later.

    * I'm meaning here individuals who identify as women having previously identified as men. It's a serious point that does not depend on views around language.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,371
    Stark_Dawning said:

    John Major is a bit of a surprise. Polling quite well when you consider unrelenting hatred and contempt that pounded him throughout his tenure until the final, brutal eviction.

    Despite everything Major is the longest serving living Conservative PM still
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    edited February 19
    Foss said:

    Election Maps UK have updated their nowcast. As well as major Labour losses they now have Cons losing net seats.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Uddersfield goes Green. Neath goes Reform. Olympus not fallen but creaking. Lab/Lib/SNP only viable government.

    LAB 229
    ↓ 182 from GE2024

    RFM 153
    ↑ 148

    CON 116
    ↓ 5

    LDM 72
    0

    SNP 42
    ↑ 33

    MIN 10
    ↑ 5

    GRN 5
    ↑ 1

    DUP 5
    0

    PLC 4
    0

    Oth 6
    0
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    edited February 19
    You know, Blair is still a young man (by US political standards). And hardly anyone remembers Iraq anymore.

    Second comings (of the political kind) are back in fashion.

    He's also got a great record of sucking up to US Republican Presidents.

    Could he be the man the country needs?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,970
    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    How much dakka?

    MOAR DAKKA!

    (Task and Purpose on the Enhanced Main Battle Tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhcF3MVn7Fg 20 mins)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,278
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    First?

    STOLEN!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    I'm impressed you managed to type that in just 27 seconds.

    I mean, typing at 400 words per minute is an odd superpower, but in these difficult days, PB will take all it can get.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    Well yes, that's pretty much it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,301
    viewcode said:

    Foss said:

    Election Maps UK have updated their nowcast. As well as major Labour losses they now have Cons losing net seats.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Uddersfield goes Green. Neath goes Reform. Olympus not fallen but creaking. Lab/Lib/SNP only viable government.

    LAB 229
    ↓ 182 from GE2024

    RFM 153
    ↑ 148

    CON 116
    ↓ 5

    LDM 72
    0

    SNP 42
    ↑ 33

    MIN 10
    ↑ 5

    GRN 5
    ↑ 1

    DUP 5
    0

    PLC 4
    0

    Oth 6
    0
    Their mapping tool has an option to shade by margin. There are a lot of incredibly marginal constituencies that a little error in polling will erroneously flip one way or another.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    Given Trump doesn't seem to think the US should be in NATO, it's not clear why his opinion on this matters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,371
    edited February 19
    rcs1000 said:

    You know, Blair is still a young man (by US political standards). And hardly anyone remembers Iraq anymore.

    Second comings (of the political kind) are back in fashion.

    He's also got a great record of sucking up to US Republican Presidents.

    Could he be the man the country needs?

    Labour wouldn't have him back now, nor would the Tories nor would Reform.

    Ironically his best bet would be to replace Davey as Liberal Democrat leader, despite the opposition of the Charles Kennedy LDs to him over Iraq ideologically Blair is now an Orange Book LD in all but name
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,313
    RobD said:

    Remind me who Liz Truss was again?

    Could be said she was the best looking PM.

    Writes an unreconstructed admirer of the female form.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,313
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    You know, Blair is still a young man (by US political standards). And hardly anyone remembers Iraq anymore.

    Second comings (of the political kind) are back in fashion.

    He's also got a great record of sucking up to US Republican Presidents.

    Could he be the man the country needs?

    Labour wouldn't have him back now, nor would the Tories nor would Reform.

    Ironically his best bet would be to replace Davey as Liberal Democrat leader, despite the opposition of the Charles Kennedy LDs to him over Iraq ideologically Blair is now an Orange Book LD in all but name
    Never had you down as someone for hallucinatory drink or drugs before.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    You know, Blair is still a young man (by US political standards). And hardly anyone remembers Iraq anymore.

    Second comings (of the political kind) are back in fashion.

    He's also got a great record of sucking up to US Republican Presidents.

    Could he be the man the country needs?

    Labour wouldn't have him back now, nor would the Tories nor would Reform.

    Ironically his best bet would be to replace Davey as Liberal Democrat leader, despite the opposition of the Charles Kennedy LDs to him over Iraq ideologically Blair is now an Orange Book LD in all but name
    You know, I like that as an idea.

    Blair as a British Macron, taking over the remnants of the LibDems, renaming them as To Beyond, winning a massive majority, and then retiring as by far the most popular British politician of the last millennium.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,106
    edited February 19
    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    There's a legit argument that says that European security isn't America's problem, that we're big enough and ugly enough and rich enough to.look after ourselves and each other. And I suspect that's where a lot of Trump optimists hoped the story was going.

    However, what Trump now seems to be saying is that America is taking to itself the power to decide Ukraine's fate. And that (to say the sort of thing that centrist dads say) isn't really on.
  • WinchyWinchy Posts: 130
    edited February 19
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    viewcode said:

    CharlieShark said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kamski said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    TDS continues. Latest comment on my channel: "I get it, it's a Tesla fanboy channel, people with no moral qualms about facilitating the the rise of Nazim in the USA and Europe. Have you resigned from the Lib Dems yet?"

    Erm, I'm not a fanboi - I upset those by taking the piss out of Musk and calling out Tesla flaws. And I'm facilitating what? How? And why would I resign from the LibDems?

    Too many self-righteous wazzocks out there, full of themselves and how all right-thinking people must think like them.

    Must be terrible if you actually drive one of those nazimobiles these days.
    The thinking person's term is "Swasticar"

    I do confess to having offered a mild excuse to a party colleague on Saturday when they saw I drove a Tesla. I find Musk's politics to be embarrassingly absurd. And when I say embarrassed I mean for him - he's making an absolute tit of himself.

    But that doesn't impact onto his companies. I love my Tesla. Starlink has transformed my ability to do business. And I'm agog every time SpaceX smash another impossible mission goal. I think the hand-wringer types think that I should sell the Tesla and bin Starlink with the £££ and business costs being a suitable price for their morality. No thanks.

    And as its confessional time I love Michael Jackson music, think Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and enjoy Harry Potter. I know, I know...
    Imagine comparing JK Rowling to MJ, Elon Musk and Kevin Spacey. Vile.
    Both JK Rowling and Elon Musk believe that men cannot become women under any circumstances, surgical or otherwise, and agitate continously to that end. They are both billionaires and contribute portions of their wealth to that cause. In what way are they not comparable?
    One of the more callous things that Trump has done, reportedly, in moving transwomen to Mens' Prisons, is that he has included those who have had surgery to give them female genitalia (simulated female genitalia if that is your line).

    Were it to happen widely, that would generate rapes of post-surgical transwomen by inmates of mens' prisons, or have them in permanent solitary for their own safety.

    My view is that that is the sort of consequence Trump & Co would not give a damn about - just as they are not afaics addressing the consequences for the civilians in a long term Russian-occupied portion of Ukraine, or for children of immigrant families they wrench away from their parents (they already closed the agency which was trying to reunite them from last time round when Trump did it in term 1).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-transgender-executive-order-prison-lawsuit-b2696415.html

    This is still in play, because it is one area where Temporary Restraining Orders are in place against the relevant Executive Order, on the basis of likely illegality and immediate, serious consequences which would not be adequately addressed by damages later.

    * I'm meaning here individuals who identify as women having previously identified as men. It's a serious point that does not depend on views around language.
    I don't know if there is good reason to believe they are at greater than average risk of being raped in men's prisons. Let's assume there is. But there are probably other categories of blokes too who are at equal or greater risk. Men who have had surgery to give them female-type genitalia have a right to be protected, because everyone does. (Trump may not think so, or he may not care, but many of us are not Trump.) They do not have a right to be sent to women's prisons. Protect them in men's prisons.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,106
    rcs1000 said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    Given Trump doesn't seem to think the US should be in NATO, it's not clear why his opinion on this matters.
    What Trump wants is the power to direct the world without the responsibility of enforcing it on the ground.

    But we know he is an expert on harlots.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,970
    rcs1000 said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    Given Trump doesn't seem to think the US should be in NATO, it's not clear why his opinion on this matters.
    Is Trump very far behind the opinion of the people of the US, in not wanting to be in NATO? How “bought into the reasons for being in NATO” are the people of the US? Is there a gap there with European sentiment?

    It may be wrong to not appreciate the benefits of club membership they get for the fee, but as time passes from when the club was formed, and the world is certainly changed, is it only natural for views to change?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,721
    FPT
    Here is the 2-minute video of Hannah Fry's medical test paradox that @kjh referred to last Sunday. (Probably YouTube just threw it at me because it tracks me here!)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2xw2d46fwYc
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    Winchy said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    viewcode said:

    CharlieShark said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    kamski said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    TDS continues. Latest comment on my channel: "I get it, it's a Tesla fanboy channel, people with no moral qualms about facilitating the the rise of Nazim in the USA and Europe. Have you resigned from the Lib Dems yet?"

    Erm, I'm not a fanboi - I upset those by taking the piss out of Musk and calling out Tesla flaws. And I'm facilitating what? How? And why would I resign from the LibDems?

    Too many self-righteous wazzocks out there, full of themselves and how all right-thinking people must think like them.

    Must be terrible if you actually drive one of those nazimobiles these days.
    The thinking person's term is "Swasticar"

    I do confess to having offered a mild excuse to a party colleague on Saturday when they saw I drove a Tesla. I find Musk's politics to be embarrassingly absurd. And when I say embarrassed I mean for him - he's making an absolute tit of himself.

    But that doesn't impact onto his companies. I love my Tesla. Starlink has transformed my ability to do business. And I'm agog every time SpaceX smash another impossible mission goal. I think the hand-wringer types think that I should sell the Tesla and bin Starlink with the £££ and business costs being a suitable price for their morality. No thanks.

    And as its confessional time I love Michael Jackson music, think Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and enjoy Harry Potter. I know, I know...
    Imagine comparing JK Rowling to MJ, Elon Musk and Kevin Spacey. Vile.
    Both JK Rowling and Elon Musk believe that men cannot become women under any circumstances, surgical or otherwise, and agitate continously to that end. They are both billionaires and contribute portions of their wealth to that cause. In what way are they not comparable?
    One of the more callous things that Trump has done, reportedly, in moving transwomen to Mens' Prisons, is that he has included those who have had surgery to give them female genitalia (simulated female genitalia if that is your line).

    Were it to happen widely, that would generate rapes of post-surgical transwomen by inmates of mens' prisons, or have them in permanent solitary for their own safety.

    My view is that that is the sort of consequence Trump & Co would not give a damn about - just as they are not afaics addressing the consequences for the civilians in a long term Russian-occupied portion of Ukraine, or for children of immigrant families they wrench away from their parents (they already closed the agency which was trying to reunite them from last time round when Trump did it in term 1).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-transgender-executive-order-prison-lawsuit-b2696415.html

    This is still in play, because it is one area where Temporary Restraining Orders are in place against the relevant Executive Order, on the basis of likely illegality and immediate, serious consequences which would not be adequately addressed by damages later.

    * I'm meaning here individuals who identify as women having previously identified as men. It's a serious point that does not depend on views around language.
    I don't know if there is good reason to believe they are at greater than average risk of being raped in men's prisons. Let's assume there is. But there are probably other categories of blokes too who are at equal or greater risk. Men who have had surgery to give them female-type genitalia have a right to be protected, because everyone does. (Trump may not think so, or he may not care, but many of us are not Trump.) They do not have a right to be sent to women's prisons. Protect them in men's prisons.
    "I don't know if there is good reason to believe they are at greater than average risk of being raped in men's prisons"

    Actually, there is

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/V-coding
    https://www.reddit.com/r/SVU/comments/11adofi/dutch_tears_s24_e14_is_based_on_vcoding/
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,424
    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by
    these turn of events in recent weeks,
    because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep
    space?

    It wasn’t cash money.

    The military equipment was obsolete and was due to be scrapped (but valued at replacement cost). The cash came from UNAID’s budget which was allocated anyway

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,037
    rcs1000 said:

    You know, Blair is still a young man (by US political standards). And hardly anyone remembers Iraq anymore.

    Second comings (of the political kind) are back in fashion.

    He's also got a great record of sucking up to US Republican Presidents.

    Could he be the man the country needs?

    His chief aide-de-camp is already in place, finding fresh respect for Trump.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,721
    RobD said:

    Remind me who Liz Truss was again?

    Liz Truss is the lady on social media warning Canadians against voting for Mark Carney.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,013
    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    He should have seen what happened to the Hawk Tuah girl !!!!

    Has anyone, apart from the rugpullers, ever made money from a memecoin ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    RobD said:

    Remind me who Liz Truss was again?

    Liz Truss is the lady on social media warning Canadians against voting for Mark Carney.
    I knew I'd heard the name before! :)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 599
    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    edited February 19
    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    What US Knowhow?

    And at least with China you go in knowing that they won’t change their terms 3 months later
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,970
    edited February 19
    rcs1000 said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    I'm impressed you managed to type that in just 27 seconds.

    I mean, typing at 400 words per minute is an odd superpower, but in these difficult days, PB will take all it can get.
    I had the thought in the shed this morning and it’s taken me an hour to type it. And then remove all the bad grammar and too many words. And even now I don’t like how I written it, it just repeats paragraph after paragraph 😣

    I need to have a bath now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,037
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FPT
    Here is the 2-minute video of Hannah Fry's medical test paradox that @kjh referred to last Sunday. (Probably YouTube just threw it at me because it tracks me here!)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2xw2d46fwYc

    I’m getting Bismark wreck content on FB today presumably because of last night’s discussion. Fcuking creepy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,120
    Hang in there Liz, your day will come (when you aren't the worst PM).

    Starmer starting to get twitchy around lettuce...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,079
    Sky’s “Mussolini” tails off REALLY badly. Such a shame

    Begins really well but as soon as benito gets power the energy drains away and who cares. The last 2-3 episodes are barely watchable
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,727
    Stuartinromford said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    There's a legit argument that says that European security isn't America's problem, that we're big enough and ugly enough and rich enough to.look after ourselves and each other. And I suspect that's where a lot of Trump optimists hoped the story was going.

    However, what Trump now seems to be saying is that America is taking to itself the power to decide Ukraine's fate. And that (to say the sort of thing that centrist dads say) isn't really on.
    It may be a convenient fiction to say that a deal between USA and Russia has the power to decide the European matter of the the future of Ukraine, but fiction it is. The 500,000,000 strong European NATO countries, two of them nuclear, together with Ukraine have to power to say otherwise if they have the courage and the will.

    SFAICS those Euro powers are neither clearly saying they will or they won't. Maybe the cause is not lost?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,721
    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
    Trump wants one because Obama got one - the issue is Trump has / will definitely have annoyed those who decide who gets it by the time it gets awarded
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,658
    I’m not sure these findings are terribly meaningful.

    People are lazy and bad at disentangling cause and effect. I’m not surprised Cameron scores well because in retrospect the world back in the early teenies was a lovely place with the GFC ebbing into history and before global pandemics and wars launched by mad tyrants in Russia and culture wars and a dangerous madman in the White House. I’m not trying to champion Gordon Brown or any of the 2016-2025 mob, but it’s not obvious to me that their predecessors were any better, just more fortunate it not having to wade through quite as many showers of shit at once.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,424
    eek said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
    Trump wants one because Obama got one - the issue is Trump has / will definitely have annoyed those who decide who gets it by the time it gets awarded
    I’ve a vague memory he asked for one last time and they laughed
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,706
    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,120
    eek said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
    Trump wants one because Obama got one - the issue is Trump has / will definitely have annoyed those who decide who gets it by the time it gets awarded
    It is so pitiful to think that might be his animus. But also, so easy to imagine. He is Viz's Spoilt Bastard made President.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,448
    edited February 19
    Stuartinromford said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    There's a legit argument that says that European security isn't America's problem, that we're big enough and ugly enough and rich enough to.look after ourselves and each other. And I suspect that's where a lot of Trump optimists hoped the story was going.

    However, what Trump now seems to be saying is that America is taking to itself the power to decide Ukraine's fate. And that (to say the sort of thing that centrist dad's say) isn't really on.
    Trump wants America to look after only itself and screw everybody else. At the same time he wants to play the big man on the international stage. These things are at odds since the further he pulls America out of its global leadership role the less important it becomes to the rest of the world what he says or thinks about anything.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    StillWaters said:

    eek said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
    Trump wants one because Obama got one - the issue is Trump has / will definitely have annoyed those who decide who gets it by the time it gets awarded
    I’ve a vague memory he asked for one last time and they laughed
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54092960.amp
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,306
    Liz Truss' lowest approval rating was -47. SKS' is -48.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,120
    eek said:

    StillWaters said:

    eek said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    An alternative view from the US Treasury Secretary

    1. It will accelerate the Ukrainian economy as it's getting US know-how
    2. It'll show Russia that the US will protect its interests there

    Oh.. and Trump deserves the Nobel Peace Prize

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/5152802-scott-bessent-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals/
    They gave a Nobel Peace Prize to Obama for not being George Bush, so why not Trump as well? That is probably why Trump wants one.
    Trump wants one because Obama got one - the issue is Trump has / will definitely have annoyed those who decide who gets it by the time it gets awarded
    I’ve a vague memory he asked for one last time and they laughed
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54092960.amp
    "For a nomination alone, the barrier to entry is low: all nominations from heads of state or politicians serving at a national level are accepted."

    Starmer could nominate him then. That should smooth his ruffled ego.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,023
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.
    I don't understand why it's the regulators job in various countries to provide "protection" in the area of crypto either. The only regulatory protection should be for platforms that state you hold one $MAXPB coin that the account holder has access to that $MAXPB coin and can trade it for Bitcoin, USDT, Eth, $, €, £ or whatever - whatever that value might be.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,239
    If as a result of Trump’s actions a self-sustaining European security apparatus is created, that is not necessarily to the full benefit of the US.

    If Europe stops being reliant on the US and they are no longer a trusted ally, the US loses a lot of the reciprocal benefits. Tariffs drive down the incentives to trade. Europe can’t rely on the tech apparatus so creates its own. Etc, etc.

    Of course this relies on Europe getting its act together, and who the heck knows if it can on that front, but there will be a lot of unintended consequences.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,223
    ...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,472
    HYUFD said:

    I suspect Sir John Major will be delighted that 27 years after 1997 he beats Starmer by a larger margin than any other former Tory PM, even Thatcher. Though Blair beats him by most, suggesting Blair still remains the most electorally appealing living PM we have had.

    Theresa May I suspect will be secretly pleased that she beats Starmer by 1% more than Boris does and Rishi delighted while he beats Starmer Liz is still trounced, even by Sir Keir

    Pollsters really ought to include the lettuce in the list, as a control.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FPT
    Here is the 2-minute video of Hannah Fry's medical test paradox that @kjh referred to last Sunday. (Probably YouTube just threw it at me because it tracks me here!)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2xw2d46fwYc

    Errr: that question is a pot of piss.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,239
    kinabalu said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    There's a legit argument that says that European security isn't America's problem, that we're big enough and ugly enough and rich enough to.look after ourselves and each other. And I suspect that's where a lot of Trump optimists hoped the story was going.

    However, what Trump now seems to be saying is that America is taking to itself the power to decide Ukraine's fate. And that (to say the sort of thing that centrist dad's say) isn't really on.
    Trump wants America to look after only itself and screw everybody else. At the same time he wants to play the big man on the international stage. These things are at odds since the further he pulls America out of its global leadership role the less important it becomes to the rest of the world what he says or thinks about anything.
    Trump wants to play 19th century Great Power. He wants to push pieces around on a board and draw lines on a map, but not particularly worry about the consequences so long as his own nest is feathered.

    Of course we all know where that ended….
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,936
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Yep. He's flipped.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,037
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    So scapegoat it is.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,423
    edited February 19
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Yep. He's flipped.
    My takeaway from that is that Trump doesn’t want elections and is annoyed and jealous that thanks to the war the Ukraine has not had any for a while
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,624
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.
    I don't understand why it's the regulators job in various countries to provide "protection" in the area of crypto either. The only regulatory protection should be for platforms that state you hold one $MAXPB coin that the account holder has access to that $MAXPB coin and can trade it for Bitcoin, USDT, Eth, $, €, £ or whatever - whatever that value might be.
    In the U.K. (and in a number of countries), running a market is regulated by default.

    Just because I’ve invented an OTC market in derivatives of Grandparents*, doesn’t mean no tax and doesn’t mean no regulation.

    Think of it as a variation on consumer protection.

    *Some idiots would simply sell their grandparents to make money. The capital gains implications, alone….
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    RobD said:

    Remind me who Liz Truss was again?

    Liz Truss is the lady on social media warning Canadians against voting for Mark Carney.
    Pile on the Liberals in the Canadian election!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,306
    numbertwelve said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    MoonRabbit said:

    Last night Trump pointed out the ocean between US and Europe. Is there is some milage in wanting Ukraine war resolved being not a Trumpian position, but consistent US state of mind? Correct me where wrong as I explore this.

    The US has historical form for being isolationist. Late to both world wars, even when popular in Europe after victory, Wilson wasn’t popular at home, in his country and his own party, for taking US into the war; and if Japan had not attacked US when they did, could US have gone years before helping Europe out in 2nd world war, what would have been the implication of those years?

    If you look at Ukraine war through US eyes - I say US, not Trump or MAGA eyes, it’s possible a plurality of US agree with the President they elected - the amount of money Biden Administration spent on Ukraine war whilst many in US feels poor in their pocket, at same time watching those billions out of US to Europe, what if you feel the war only started because old Cold War warriors like Biden, ripped up agreements with Russia and talked up slipping Ukraine into NATO.

    There’s no doubt is there, Trump and Farage don’t believe Ukraine should be in NATO - both more than happy to say it into camera - they also believe waving that prospect in front the bear, provoked it.

    So close off the war, save money, detente with Russia opens up further money making opportunities, this money pays for the Golden Age of America, a view seen through eyes the people of Europe cannot see. Whilst in Europe this invasion transcends political ideology into realms of history, borders, security, and National identity, to a degree the people across the pond will never understand or appreciate, as you need to be raised European to truly understand and appreciate.

    So is it just the madness of Trump - or is it he has US on his side of thinking, placing this war into an historical pattern where the people of US and Europe were always going to disagree? The US people always going to understand Trump on this one. And no fair excuse for Europe to be shocked by these turn of events in recent weeks, because this final outcome has been hurtling towards us like a rock from deep space?

    There's a legit argument that says that European security isn't America's problem, that we're big enough and ugly enough and rich enough to.look after ourselves and each other. And I suspect that's where a lot of Trump optimists hoped the story was going.

    However, what Trump now seems to be saying is that America is taking to itself the power to decide Ukraine's fate. And that (to say the sort of thing that centrist dad's say) isn't really on.
    Trump wants America to look after only itself and screw everybody else. At the same time he wants to play the big man on the international stage. These things are at odds since the further he pulls America out of its global leadership role the less important it becomes to the rest of the world what he says or thinks about anything.
    Trump wants to play 19th century Great Power. He wants to push pieces around on a board and draw lines on a map, but not particularly worry about the consequences so long as his own nest is feathered.

    Of course we all know where that ended….
    Fairly well for the duration of the 19th century.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,879
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Yep. He's flipped.
    Just one lie after another from Trump . What a surprise! And comedy gold when he started going on about a dictator without elections .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    viewcode said:

    US terms to Ukraine. No wonder Zelensky told him to fuck off

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/

    Astonishing. If the US kicked Russia out of Ukraine and provided permanent and effective security it might be worth considering mortgaging the entire Ukrainian economy. But Trump offers absolutely nothing in except a Mafia style protection racket
    And by the way this isn't even Versailles. It is the equivalent of the other allies imposing the war reparations on France rather than Germany.
    Well, when you put it like that, it doesn't sound quite so stupid.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.

    One of the issues with Milei is that he may have been part of the project:

    https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/milei-crypto-scandal-widens-with-allegations-against-his-sister.phtml



  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,441
    Stark_Dawning said:

    John Major is a bit of a surprise. Polling quite well when you consider unrelenting hatred and contempt that pounded him throughout his tenure until the final, brutal eviction.

    Even though I’m not a Tory, oh for a PM with the character and honestly of a John Major.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    I'm just sorry that @Sandpit isn't on here to defend Trump here.

    Surely @williamglenn will step up the plate his absence.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,855
    edited February 19
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Starmer needs to go full Love Actually.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,894
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.
    Because most people aren't financially sophisticated, and if you are a fan of politician [x], then you will tend to believe that the coin they are promoting must somehow be an amazing investment, unlike all the coins created by politicians you don't like, which are just scams.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,624
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Argentinian President has got himself into a spot of bother with his memecoin.

    I literally don't understand why anyone would speculate on a memecoin, it's literally a rugpull waiting to happen. Unless you're part of the project then don't bother.
    Because most people aren't financially sophisticated, and if you are a fan of politician [x], then you will tend to believe that the coin they are promoting must somehow be an amazing investment, unlike all the coins created by politicians you don't like, which are just scams.
    #CorbynCoin
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,037
    SouthamObserver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Every time Boris Johnson claims Donald Trump is playing a masterful game of 4D chess on Ukraine, Trump comes out and says something that makes Johnson look utterly ridiculous. There's poetry in it.

    I’d hope Mandelson also feels a little queasy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,472
    rcs1000 said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FPT
    Here is the 2-minute video of Hannah Fry's medical test paradox that @kjh referred to last Sunday. (Probably YouTube just threw it at me because it tracks me here!)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2xw2d46fwYc

    Errr: that question is a pot of piss.
    Is that the one I stepped in yesterday ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,825
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Yep. He's flipped.
    I don't think he has flipped but this was his intention from the day he became President

    His words could have been said by Putin and there is no prevarication now, but these are dangerous times for Ukraine and Europe and it leaves one in despair not least because what else is he planning to do to undermine Europe

    My question is - US what have you done ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,306
    It is a horrible shame Ukraine is getting shafted this way. It was also a shame that they got shafted previously as a convenient venue for a desirable proxy war that the previous US administration was taking advantage of to grind down a geopolitical foe. I am glad it looks like the killing and damage to property will stop soon. I am not sure what the peace will look like, but I would say it looks less positive for Ukraine than a peace deal a year ago (or a year before that?) might have looked.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,879
    tlg86 said:

    That post from Trump should be enough for us to boycott 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympics.

    It’s a joint bid the WC with Canada and Mexico so I wouldn’t want to offend those countries . But the way the US is going it’s quickly going to turn into a pariah state .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,721
    rcs1000 said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FPT
    Here is the 2-minute video of Hannah Fry's medical test paradox that @kjh referred to last Sunday. (Probably YouTube just threw it at me because it tracks me here!)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2xw2d46fwYc

    Errr: that question is a pot of piss.
    Here is her press release from Cambridge where she has been Professor of Sums for about six weeks.
    https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/features/hannah-fry-appointed-professor-public-understanding-mathematics
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,442
    nico67 said:

    tlg86 said:

    That post from Trump should be enough for us to boycott 2026 World Cup and 2028 Olympics.

    It’s a joint bid the WC with Canada and Mexico so I wouldn’t want to offend those countries . But the way the US is going it’s quickly going to turn into a pariah state .
    I'd encourage Canada and Mexico to pull out of it too.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,855
    TDS = telepathic divinating seer
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,721
    SouthamObserver said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Every time Boris Johnson claims Donald Trump is playing a masterful game of 4D chess on Ukraine, Trump comes out and says something that makes Johnson look utterly ridiculous. There's poetry in it.

    There was a think tank guy on Times Radio yesterday saying Trump opens high and expects to be negotiated down. That might, of course, be wishful thinking.

    Kremlin cautious as Putin tries to 'wrench' his regime from 'disarray' of Ukraine war
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj4oWnbPzfg
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,228
    I'm not certain how useful these questions are. I think the memory cheats and we often have more positive memories of people who were more divisive at the time.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,999
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Yep. He's flipped.
    I don't think he has flipped but this was his intention from the day he became President

    His words could have been said by Putin and there is no prevarication now, but these are dangerous times for Ukraine and Europe and it leaves one in despair not least because what else is he planning to do to undermine Europe

    My question is - US what have you done ?

    If so many prominent Tories had not jumped into bed with Trump, there would be a major dividing line opportunity with Reform opening up.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,859
    Simon Whistler (I know, I know) on Trump and Ukraine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPvtpTvoVpM (16mins)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,228
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    It is a horrible shame Ukraine is getting shafted this way. It was also a shame that they got shafted previously as a convenient venue for a desirable proxy war that the previous US administration was taking advantage of to grind down a geopolitical foe. I am glad it looks like the killing and damage to property will stop soon. I am not sure what the peace will look like, but I would say it looks less positive for Ukraine than a peace deal a year ago (or a year before that?) might have looked.

    I don't accept the argument that the previous US administration (or European allies) were deliberately titrating aid so as "to grind down a geopolitical foe". If Ukraine had been able to see off Russia and reclaim all their territory quickly, I think Washington, London, Paris etc. would have been overjoyed.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,879
    Where’s Kemi to tell us all how marvellous Trump is ?
This discussion has been closed.