Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Because actually saying something would mean acknowledging the collapse of their worldview and post-2016 project. Which was/is predicated on the idea Trumpism can be beneficial to Britain rather than malign.
There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
do fuck off you Trump-loving nazi-loving Putin-loving troll. why do the Saturday ones get banned after a few posts but this lying shithead is here for years?
Jesus Christ calm the fuck down
why?
and yes you're another of those Trump-loving shitheads, so who the fuck are you to tell me to do anything?
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
The US has active listening posts on our territory, military bases all over, a hugely entwined tech/data sector, active influence in UK political and legal decisions, huge cultural and media capital, oligarchic influence on UK 'think tanks' and idea generation institutes AND they own so much of the UK now its not even funny, look at the premier league a majority of clubs are now owned by US capital.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
There's clearly some personal dislike for Zelensky. Maybe as someone who has always steered clear of drink and drugs, Trump doesn't like the rumours about Zelensky's habit.
do fuck off you Trump-loving nazi-loving Putin-loving troll. why do the Saturday ones get banned after a few posts but this lying shithead is here for years?
Jesus Christ calm the fuck down
why?
and yes you're another of those Trump-loving shitheads, so who the fuck are you to tell me to do anything?
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
I watched a fascinating piece of alt-history the other day. Point of Departure was Oswald Mosley gets elected in 1924 (lost by 100 in reality) and goes on to lead the Labour Party. Labour's response to the financial crisis keeps them in power. In turn that keeps Eddie baby on the throne which makes the UK very pro-Fascist.
What happens then? Yep - the UK joins the Axis. Western Europe is spared and WWII ends up being fought in the Soviet Union and the land of their main ally - the US.
A Russian-American pact? Why not. Then Trump and Putin can have a literal pissing contest.
- "The scum of the earth, I believe?"
- "The bloody assassin of the workers, I presume?"
is there any part of this which is even remotely true?
No, none of it would count as true, a few bits are sort of nearish to facts, so mild exaggeration not complete nonsense. Fundamentally though it's a lie that is indistinguishable from Russian talking points.
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet NATO is dead, the Special Relationship is dead, the Transatlantic Alliance is dead. Right now the US under Trump is more closely aligned with Russia than the UK or EU.
Simply put the US is now unquestionably an adversary.
Steady on. Let's not compete for hyperbole and go as far as to say it's an adversary. It isn't.
It's quitting on Ukraine with all the force and rage a crazed megalomaniac of a leader can muster, whilst firing off threats and aggressive rhetoric all over the place, but it isn't our enemy.
Yes, we need to react. But we shouldn't overreact.
When should we overreact?
Selling out Ukraine?
Abandoning NATO?
Ethnic cleansing Gaza?
Invading Canada, or Greenland?
It's not one thing, it's the totality of crazy and dangerous things coming out of the US. I think if anything most people are still head in the sand and pretending this isn't as bad as it looks.
Are we sure that Thomas Crooks wasn't an agent from the future, sent back in time in an attempt to change the course of history?
Listening to that Kemi Badenoch speech to the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship from the other day.
The emphasis to me is quite heavily culture war, with some strangely superficial stuff - such as the Chicken Nugget Narrative. I think she's tone deaf, and has not done enough homework - other may be less skeptical.
But there's at least one corking hostage to fortune, that is sounding a bit ... ooops. Has she even found out what Trump's been doing, and how recklessly he's been doing it?
""Take a look at President Trump.
He's shown that sometimes you need that first stint in Government to spot the problems, but it's the second time around when you really know how to fix them.""
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
That is correct.
Condemning Trump over Ukraine ought to be a no-brainer.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
Some good points. But that it's become a tenable debate is somewhat remarkable.
I think pretty soon "TDS" will be a badge of honour and there'll be plenty claiming to have had it for years.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
Hugely. Its all talk from Trump. So far. But what I think people are getting concerned about is what happens when the talking stops and they find that Trump has done something they can't accept.
There is a clear scenario here where Trump does a Ukraine peace deal which dismembers the country in a way that is wholly unacceptable to the rest of NATO.
We'd have a choice of stomach the deal and keep on hoping that Trump doesn't give away anything else he doesn't own, or to say no and face the consequences of that. America withdrawing tens of thousands of troops and materiel is an obvious next step - which would be another 'what do we do now' moment.
I honestly don't care what Trump does to America - they voted for him. What he does to Europe? More of a problem. I think you come at this from the angle that Ukraine can't win - and you may have a point. I can also make the point that Russia can't win either. But there's a difference between both sides accepting that and stopping and Trump conceding to Putin on Ukraine's behalf...
There is a clear scenario here where Trump does a Ukraine peace deal which dismembers the country in a way that is wholly unacceptable to the rest of NATO.
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
I get the sincere impression that Kemi wants to ignore all of the geopolitics because its too hard & too divisive. Why get into Ukraine when you can fight a war against woke? The threat to people is bathrooms, not bombs...
What does the public know? Cameron is quite comfortably the worst recent PM, being 100% responsible for holding the EU referendum and hence everything that has followed.
The last six words of the above are nonsense. Almost everything bad that has happened since Cameron - Covid, the Ukraine war, Donald Trump, the culture wars - have 0% connection to our membership of the EU or otherwise.
But funnily enough the battle lines that followed after Brexit tend to have been drawn then, if not invariably. Trump has gone so batshit mental perhaps that’ll shake it up a bit.
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
I get the sincere impression that Kemi wants to ignore all of the geopolitics because its too hard & too divisive. Why get into Ukraine when you can fight a war against woke? The threat to people is bathrooms, not bombs...
She’s not unique in this among modern politicians, but she’s badly out of her depth on questions like that.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
The hot takes are quite something.
One foreign country has decided to stop military support for another foreign country, and oblige that country to sue for peace. Objectively, such a move is in Britain's national interest, and yet the world is apparently ending.
Contrast that with the previous situation, where our leaders were obliged to make ever more generous contributions in cash and kind, and our country, which was (and still is) in the worst possible position to endure energy price shocks, was/is subjected to the worst one for decades. Yet people here were seal-clapping the whole thing.
It's a bizarre and wilful self-flagellating disconnection from our own national interest that only afflicts people in the UK. Like we’re actually guilty that things might get a bit better for us. Indeed we must hurry to find new and original ways to suffer and sacrifice just in case we should profit from these events.
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
And the Conservatives have an excellent record on it with Johnson and Sunak. I feel like Jenrick would have the political flexibility/shamelessness to remain anti-woke and pro-Ukraine somehow.
Farage is one to watch now in the vacuum left by Badenoch. How does he play it?
I think we now need to stop pretending that this guy has any noble intentions at heart here and it’s all just a clever negotiating ruse.
The man clearly holds democratic Europe in distain and we should shape our policy accordingly.
Maybe it's a little unfair to take the statements of someone with dementia at face value.
I would just say and having had experience of dementia Trump is not suffering dementia but certainly is causing great concern across the west
Maybe all those of us here with experience of dementia should take a vote on it.
Having visited my dad in a care home for several years, I can only say that dementia symptoms seem to very considerably between individuals. And in the early stages, doctors aren't all that good at diagnosing it with any degree of certainty either.
I've no idea either way with Trump. But I'm comfortable with the colloquial diagnosis of a screw loose.
What does the public know? Cameron is quite comfortably the worst recent PM, being 100% responsible for holding the EU referendum and hence everything that has followed.
The last six words of the above are nonsense. Almost everything bad that has happened since Cameron - Covid, the Ukraine war, Donald Trump, the culture wars - have 0% connection to our membership of the EU or otherwise.
But funnily enough the battle lines that followed after Brexit tend to have been drawn then, if not invariably. Trump has gone so batshit mental perhaps that’ll shake it up a bit.
I don't follow? I think Leavers and Remainers are pretty much united in lamenting covid and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And inasmuch as views on Brexit follow sides in the culture war - I'm sure there is a correlation - this is a schism which predates, rather than was caused by, Brexit.
It's interesting that we are generally very harsh with our leaders, Prime Ministers and governments but we remember them more fondly when they're out of office.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
The US has active listening posts on our territory, military bases all over, a hugely entwined tech/data sector, active influence in UK political and legal decisions, huge cultural and media capital, oligarchic influence on UK 'think tanks' and idea generation institutes AND they own so much of the UK now its not even funny, look at the premier league a majority of clubs are now owned by US capital.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
Yet.
Don't be silly.
Guilty as charged, but it was too good and opportunity to resist.
The United States is, however, no longer our friend, either. It needs to be treated with extreme suspicion in future.
Why has the Conservative Party remained mute on this unfolding nightmare?
Why has it not expressed 100% support for Zelenskyy and Ukraine?
(My email is bombarded daily with CCHQ crap, but nothing so far on something so existential. But maybe I’ve missed it).
For some of us, it’s now make or break time with the party.
Yes, quite.
Why aren't they taking a hard line and putting pressure on Starmer over this? Are they seriously worried about the 37% of Reform voters who have an unfavourable view of Zelensky? Everyone else is massively in favour.
Politically it would be the sensible thing to do and would be the kind of issue that could help them steal votes from Labour and the Lib Dems.
I get the sincere impression that Kemi wants to ignore all of the geopolitics because its too hard & too divisive. Why get into Ukraine when you can fight a war against woke? The threat to people is bathrooms, not bombs...
Don't forget the nice people who get church roofs fixed. They're just as bad.
(Which of the voices in her head fed her that line? Has any politician ever risen to the top via a sucsessful fundraising campaign for St Edward's?)
TDS continues. Latest comment on my channel: "I get it, it's a Tesla fanboy channel, people with no moral qualms about facilitating the the rise of Nazim in the USA and Europe. Have you resigned from the Lib Dems yet?"
Erm, I'm not a fanboi - I upset those by taking the piss out of Musk and calling out Tesla flaws. And I'm facilitating what? How? And why would I resign from the LibDems?
Too many self-righteous wazzocks out there, full of themselves and how all right-thinking people must think like them.
Must be terrible if you actually drive one of those nazimobiles these days.
The thinking person's term is "Swasticar"
I do confess to having offered a mild excuse to a party colleague on Saturday when they saw I drove a Tesla. I find Musk's politics to be embarrassingly absurd. And when I say embarrassed I mean for him - he's making an absolute tit of himself.
But that doesn't impact onto his companies. I love my Tesla. Starlink has transformed my ability to do business. And I'm agog every time SpaceX smash another impossible mission goal. I think the hand-wringer types think that I should sell the Tesla and bin Starlink with the £££ and business costs being a suitable price for their morality. No thanks.
And as its confessional time I love Michael Jackson music, think Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor and enjoy Harry Potter. I know, I know...
Imagine comparing JK Rowling to MJ, Elon Musk and Kevin Spacey. Vile.
Both JK Rowling and Elon Musk believe that men cannot become women under any circumstances, surgical or otherwise, and agitate continously to that end. They are both billionaires and contribute portions of their wealth to that cause. In what way are they not comparable?
One of the more callous things that Trump has done, reportedly, in moving transwomen to Mens' Prisons, is that he has included those who have had surgery to give them female genitalia (simulated female genitalia if that is your line).
Were it to happen widely, that would generate rapes of post-surgical transwomen by inmates of mens' prisons, or have them in permanent solitary for their own safety.
My view is that that is the sort of consequence Trump & Co would not give a damn about - just as they are not afaics addressing the consequences for the civilians in a long term Russian-occupied portion of Ukraine, or for children of immigrant families they wrench away from their parents (they already closed the agency which was trying to reunite them from last time round when Trump did it in term 1).
This is still in play, because it is one area where Temporary Restraining Orders are in place against the relevant Executive Order, on the basis of likely illegality and immediate, serious consequences which would not be adequately addressed by damages later.
* I'm meaning here individuals who identify as women having previously identified as men. It's a serious point that does not depend on views around language.
I don't know if there is good reason to believe they are at greater than average risk of being raped in men's prisons. Let's assume there is. But there are probably other categories of blokes too who are at equal or greater risk. Men who have had surgery to give them female-type genitalia have a right to be protected, because everyone does. (Trump may not think so, or he may not care, but many of us are not Trump.) They do not have a right to be sent to women's prisons. Protect them in men's prisons.
"I don't know if there is good reason to believe they are at greater than average risk of being raped in men's prisons"
The obvious answer - and one that is fair to all - is to have a separate gender wing for male prisoners who have surgically transitioned so they are protected from abuse by male prisoners. Whether the numbers justify this I do not know. Those who identify as women but have not had surgery can also go there. But there is no reason to put male offenders, many of whom are sex offenders, in with women prisoners, even if they do identify as women.
I rather suspect though that US prisons are horrible violent places for all inmates and no-one is going to care too much about this particular cohort, especially not with all this DOGE stuff going on.
Listening to that Kemi Badenoch speech to the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship from the other day.
The emphasis to me is quite heavily culture war, with some strangely superficial stuff - such as the Chicken Nugget Narrative. I think she's tone deaf, and has not done enough homework - other may be less skeptical.
But there's at least one corking hostage to fortune, that is sounding a bit ... ooops. Has she even found out what Trump's been doing, and how recklessly he's been doing it?
""Take a look at President Trump.
He's shown that sometimes you need that first stint in Government to spot the problems, but it's the second time around when you really know how to fix them.""
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
And you as a pro bedshitter should know!
Well, quite
Anyhow here’s my calming photo from the archives
This is from 2009!!
It’s the Buddhist windhorses by the stupa of Balagezong, in remote (at least then) Yunnanese Tibet. The Chinese guys who drove me up there said I was probably the first westerner to ever enter the village
What you can’t see is that above me there are 20,000 foot Himalayan icecaps and yet way down below in the gorges: tropical rainforest
It was so beautiful - the fluttering prayer flags petitioning Eternity, sending their endless whispers to Heaven - I started to cry. My guide got concerned that I was sick or sad
is there any part of this which is even remotely true?
No, none of it would count as true, a few bits are sort of nearish to facts, so mild exaggeration not complete nonsense. Fundamentally though it's a lie that is indistinguishable from Russian talking points.
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet NATO is dead, the Special Relationship is dead, the Transatlantic Alliance is dead. Right now the US under Trump is more closely aligned with Russia than the UK or EU.
Simply put the US is now unquestionably an adversary.
Steady on. Let's not compete for hyperbole and go as far as to say it's an adversary. It isn't.
It's quitting on Ukraine with all the force and rage a crazed megalomaniac of a leader can muster, whilst firing off threats and aggressive rhetoric all over the place, but it isn't our enemy.
Yes, we need to react. But we shouldn't overreact.
When should we overreact?
Selling out Ukraine?
Abandoning NATO?
Ethnic cleansing Gaza?
Invading Canada, or Greenland?
It's not one thing, it's the totality of crazy and dangerous things coming out of the US. I think if anything most people are still head in the sand and pretending this isn't as bad as it looks.
He hasn't invaded Canada or done ethnic cleansing of Gaza. And noone is in any denial but the histrionics don't help anyone.
Calm down.
Bibi has called Trump's Gaza plan "the only viable plan to enable a different future" and seems serious about going forward with it, although he doesn't US troops on the ground to do that.
What does the public know? Cameron is quite comfortably the worst recent PM, being 100% responsible for holding the EU referendum and hence everything that has followed.
The last six words of the above are nonsense. Almost everything bad that has happened since Cameron - Covid, the Ukraine war, Donald Trump, the culture wars - have 0% connection to our membership of the EU or otherwise.
But funnily enough the battle lines that followed after Brexit tend to have been drawn then, if not invariably. Trump has gone so batshit mental perhaps that’ll shake it up a bit.
I don't follow? I think Leavers and Remainers are pretty much united in lamenting covid and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And inasmuch as views on Brexit follow sides in the culture war - I'm sure there is a correlation - this is a schism which predates, rather than was caused by, Brexit.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
The US has active listening posts on our territory, military bases all over, a hugely entwined tech/data sector, active influence in UK political and legal decisions, huge cultural and media capital, oligarchic influence on UK 'think tanks' and idea generation institutes AND they own so much of the UK now its not even funny, look at the premier league a majority of clubs are now owned by US capital.
Weak. Silly. Teenager. Sixth form.
Grow up.
Refute it then. Big man.
You got all the refuting it deserved.
Pb is better than this. We don't all have to compete with each other in the shit-the-bed stakes and, if we don't, have the finger pointed at us too.
I'm very confident ordinary Americans won't support this when they realise what's going on, and I don't want to condemn the whole country, despite their terrible politics.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
The hot takes are quite something.
One foreign country has decided to stop military support for another foreign country, and oblige that country to sue for peace. Objectively, such a move is in Britain's national interest, and yet the world is apparently ending.
Contrast that with the previous situation, where our leaders were obliged to make ever more generous contributions in cash and kind, and our country, which was (and still is) in the worst possible position to endure energy price shocks, was/is subjected to the worst one for decades. Yet people here were seal-clapping the whole thing.
It's a bizarre and wilful self-flagellating disconnection from our own national interest that only afflicts people in the UK. Like we’re actually guilty that things might get a bit better for us. Indeed we must hurry to find new and original ways to suffer and sacrifice just in case we should profit from these events.
The question is what kind of peace? And at what cost?
You argue that peace is in our national interest. Well that depends.
Peace where both sides stop fighting and the aggressor is seen to win very little? Sure. But Trump seems to think that Ukraine is the aggressor, and a mean one at that who won't give up its precious bodily fluids to America. So we're likely to see a piece deal where Ukraine is dismembered by Russia and America, encouraging both Putin and Trump to go after their next targets.
Such a deal would end the war, but would not be in our national interests as you claim.
is there any part of this which is even remotely true?
No, none of it would count as true, a few bits are sort of nearish to facts, so mild exaggeration not complete nonsense. Fundamentally though it's a lie that is indistinguishable from Russian talking points.
In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet NATO is dead, the Special Relationship is dead, the Transatlantic Alliance is dead. Right now the US under Trump is more closely aligned with Russia than the UK or EU.
Simply put the US is now unquestionably an adversary.
Steady on. Let's not compete for hyperbole and go as far as to say it's an adversary. It isn't.
It's quitting on Ukraine with all the force and rage a crazed megalomaniac of a leader can muster, whilst firing off threats and aggressive rhetoric all over the place, but it isn't our enemy.
Yes, we need to react. But we shouldn't overreact.
When should we overreact?
Selling out Ukraine?
Abandoning NATO?
Ethnic cleansing Gaza?
Invading Canada, or Greenland?
It's not one thing, it's the totality of crazy and dangerous things coming out of the US. I think if anything most people are still head in the sand and pretending this isn't as bad as it looks.
He hasn't invaded Canada or done ethnic cleansing of Gaza. And noone is in any denial but the histrionics don't help anyone.
Calm down.
Bibi has called Trump's Gaza plan "the only viable plan to enable a different future" and seems serious about going forward with it, although he doesn't US troops on the ground to do that.
Nope he just wants the residents removed so it can be rebuilt as condos for rich Israelis.
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
And you as a pro bedshitter should know!
Well, quite
Anyhow here’s my calming photo from the archives
This is from 2009!!
It’s the Buddhist windhorses by the stupa of Balagezong, in remote (at least then) Yunnanese Tibet. The Chinese guys who drove me up there said I was probably the first westerner to ever enter the village
What you can’t see is that above me there are 20,000 foot Himalayan icecaps and yet way down below in the gorges: tropical rainforest
It was so beautiful - the fluttering prayer flags petitioning Eternity, sending their endless whispers to Heaven - I started to cry. My guide got concerned that I was sick or sad
I had to reassure him
Be at peace PB, this too shall pass
Not quite. They don't go to Heaven. (What would be the point of that?). They spread peace, wisdom and compassion in the vicinity...
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
That's something.
My concern is the idea that the plan for 2.5% on defence is fully funded is plausible. given the number of stories I've heard of fully funded announcements not having anything in the actual departmental budget I simply don't trust the statement..
I assume Starmer, in common with other EU leaders, is sipping a whisky, prepping a speech, and quietly cursing the fact that a total change to the world order is about to dominate his whole premiership.
He’s allowed a day for that.
The Tories need to row in behind; but pressure him and call Trump what he is. After all he won’t be in power by the next election so what is there to lose? And they may influence some Republicans.
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
That's something.
Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
There are very few black and white moments in politics. But this is one of them. Who is prepared to say they stand with Zelensky and Ukraine. And who is prepared to say they stand with Trump and Putin. It's that simple.
SFAICS Reform and Farage have nothing to say about Trump, Putin and Ukraine today. There are some non barking dogs around.
What does the public know? Cameron is quite comfortably the worst recent PM, being 100% responsible for holding the EU referendum and hence everything that has followed.
The last six words of the above are nonsense. Almost everything bad that has happened since Cameron - Covid, the Ukraine war, Donald Trump, the culture wars - have 0% connection to our membership of the EU or otherwise.
But funnily enough the battle lines that followed after Brexit tend to have been drawn then, if not invariably. Trump has gone so batshit mental perhaps that’ll shake it up a bit.
I don't follow? I think Leavers and Remainers are pretty much united in lamenting covid and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And inasmuch as views on Brexit follow sides in the culture war - I'm sure there is a correlation - this is a schism which predates, rather than was caused by, Brexit.
True in general. But there's a very noisy subset of Brexiteers who have drank the Trumpist Putin sympathising Kool-Aid because they hate the EU as they hate liberal western democratic international institutions in general.
Then there's the fact that America going rogue undermines a central justification for the more sensible Brexit pitches. Namely that we could pivot away from Europe to America. Always highly suspect, but completely implausible when the US President believes in diplomacy and trade via protection racket.
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
That's something.
Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
Except she claims there is a fully funded plan to raise Defence spending to 2.5% - if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
And you as a pro bedshitter should know!
Well, quite
Anyhow here’s my calming photo from the archives
This is from 2009!!
It’s the Buddhist windhorses by the stupa of Balagezong, in remote (at least then) Yunnanese Tibet. The Chinese guys who drove me up there said I was probably the first westerner to ever enter the village
What you can’t see is that above me there are 20,000 foot Himalayan icecaps and yet way down below in the gorges: tropical rainforest
It was so beautiful - the fluttering prayer flags petitioning Eternity, sending their endless whispers to Heaven - I started to cry. My guide got concerned that I was sick or sad
I had to reassure him
Be at peace PB, this too shall pass
Not quite. They don't go to Heaven. (What would be the point of that?). They spread peace, wisdom and compassion in the vicinity...
If you ever make it to Balagezong, you will know that the vicinity IS heaven
What does the public know? Cameron is quite comfortably the worst recent PM, being 100% responsible for holding the EU referendum and hence everything that has followed.
The last six words of the above are nonsense. Almost everything bad that has happened since Cameron - Covid, the Ukraine war, Donald Trump, the culture wars - have 0% connection to our membership of the EU or otherwise.
But funnily enough the battle lines that followed after Brexit tend to have been drawn then, if not invariably. Trump has gone so batshit mental perhaps that’ll shake it up a bit.
I don't follow? I think Leavers and Remainers are pretty much united in lamenting covid and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And inasmuch as views on Brexit follow sides in the culture war - I'm sure there is a correlation - this is a schism which predates, rather than was caused by, Brexit.
You don’t remember the great bomb Brussels stushie cos they’re holding back ar vaccines, ably amplified by PB’s resident hysteric? That seemed to fall pretty much across Brexiteer-remoaner lines (though tbf it was the former doing the loudest screeching).
@KemiBadenoch President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
That's something.
Good to see Kemi confirming conservatives support for Ukraine in view of Trumps incendiary comments this pm , and seeking increased defence spending
Except she claims there is a fully funded plan to raise Defence spending to 2.5% - if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
The hot takes are quite something.
One foreign country has decided to stop military support for another foreign country, and oblige that country to sue for peace. Objectively, such a move is in Britain's national interest, and yet the world is apparently ending.
Contrast that with the previous situation, where our leaders were obliged to make ever more generous contributions in cash and kind, and our country, which was (and still is) in the worst possible position to endure energy price shocks, was/is subjected to the worst one for decades. Yet people here were seal-clapping the whole thing.
It's a bizarre and wilful self-flagellating disconnection from our own national interest that only afflicts people in the UK. Like we’re actually guilty that things might get a bit better for us. Indeed we must hurry to find new and original ways to suffer and sacrifice just in case we should profit from these events.
The question is what kind of peace? And at what cost?
You argue that peace is in our national interest. Well that depends.
Peace where both sides stop fighting and the aggressor is seen to win very little? Sure. But Trump seems to think that Ukraine is the aggressor, and a mean one at that who won't give up its precious bodily fluids to America. So we're likely to see a piece deal where Ukraine is dismembered by Russia and America, encouraging both Putin and Trump to go after their next targets.
Such a deal would end the war, but would not be in our national interests as you claim.
It would be foolish of anyone to predict how this will pan out for either party. However I am not going to lose my rag over a bloody and destructive conflict drawing to a close - especially one that has cost all of us extremely dearly.
Having been lambasted on here a while back for suggesting Trump and Musk presented a more egregious threat to UK interests than China, I am currently struggling to see how I was wrong.
China attempts to launch cyberattacks on our defence and security infrastructure almost daily, looks to survey and cut our communications, subverts and abduct citizens and dissidents of Han origin, buys loyalty of satellite states, demands political compliance, commits genocide against the Uighurs, is slowly eliminating Tibetan culture and executing possible future DLs, executes thousands of its own citizens each year, is conducting aggressive military sweeps across the far-east and off Australia. It is committed to an undermining of the liberal democratic order in favour of a Maoist CCP based one - where there are no elections. Ever.
So, yes, I think it is more egregious than Trump and Musk. That doesn't mean I don't think they are dangerous or conspiring to undermine our security either. But they're not attacking us.
The US has active listening posts on our territory, military bases all over, a hugely entwined tech/data sector, active influence in UK political and legal decisions, huge cultural and media capital, oligarchic influence on UK 'think tanks' and idea generation institutes AND they own so much of the UK now its not even funny, look at the premier league a majority of clubs are now owned by US capital.
Weak. Silly. Teenager. Sixth form.
Grow up.
Refute it then. Big man.
You got all the refuting it deserved.
Pb is better than this. We don't all have to compete with each other in the shit-the-bed stakes and, if we don't, have the finger pointed at us too.
I'm very confident ordinary Americans won't support this when they realise what's going on, and I don't want to condemn the whole country, despite their terrible politics.
What I typed is not wrong and can all be supported with evidence. If i can see where Trump holds leverage over this country I'm sure his advisors do and looking at their treatment of Canada I'm sure they will use it.
It is not juvenile to see that the America we knew is no longer and the new version is belligerent to all and most belligerent to those who are weaker and beholden.
The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172
Where exactly does the party leading in the polls stand on today's extraordinary events? At least I have an idea of where Lab and LDs stand; and where the Tories stand has ceased to matter much. But domestically where Reform stands matters a lot. I think it is silence so far.
I assume Starmer, in common with other EU leaders, is sipping a whisky, prepping a speech, and quietly cursing the fact that a total change to the world order is about to dominate his whole premiership.
He’s allowed a day for that.
The Tories need to row in behind; but pressure him and call Trump what he is. After all he won’t be in power by the next election so what is there to lose? And they may influence some Republicans.
Beer and curry I imagine. He is the son of a toolmaker you know!
The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172
The guy has policies that alienate everybody. He refuses to cater to his base of progressive anti trump rejoiners because he is doing blue politics. But reform and tories hate him too because he is labour. That might work in a proportional system like denmark where you need broad coalitions, but you can't govern like that in a majoritarian system where you must divide and conquer. Take something like negotiating with the eu with red lines. Rejoiners hate red lines and populists hate negotiating with the eu.... nobody is happy. It doesn't work.
The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172
Do we have a broad idea of how much is held in frozen Russian assets in various European financial institutions?
The whole lot should be liquidated and spent, before the Americans give it back in their mock negotiations.
This is like wandering into a Convention of Professional Hysterics
Hugely. Its all talk from Trump. So far. But what I think people are getting concerned about is what happens when the talking stops and they find that Trump has done something they can't accept.
There is a clear scenario here where Trump does a Ukraine peace deal which dismembers the country in a way that is wholly unacceptable to the rest of NATO.
We'd have a choice of stomach the deal and keep on hoping that Trump doesn't give away anything else he doesn't own, or to say no and face the consequences of that. America withdrawing tens of thousands of troops and materiel is an obvious next step - which would be another 'what do we do now' moment.
I honestly don't care what Trump does to America - they voted for him. What he does to Europe? More of a problem. I think you come at this from the angle that Ukraine can't win - and you may have a point. I can also make the point that Russia can't win either. But there's a difference between both sides accepting that and stopping and Trump conceding to Putin on Ukraine's behalf...
It's not all talk from Trump. USAID support to Ukraine, for example, has already stopped. He's imposed real tariffs. He pardoned a bunch of violent insurrectionists, who are now out on the streets and responsible for at least one death.
And even talk is dangerous. He has repeated Russian propaganda points and given Putin cover. Words from the President of the United States can be dangerous in and of themselves.
Comments
Laters.
I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received and as such, TSE is at war with the Conservative and Unionist Party"
and yes you're another of those Trump-loving shitheads, so who the fuck are you to tell me to do anything?
You have to worry when @Leon is one of the calmest ones.
Grow up.
- "The bloody assassin of the workers, I presume?"
The emphasis to me is quite heavily culture war, with some strangely superficial stuff - such as the Chicken Nugget Narrative. I think she's tone deaf, and has not done enough homework - other may be less skeptical.
But there's at least one corking hostage to fortune, that is sounding a bit ... ooops. Has she even found out what Trump's been doing, and how recklessly he's been doing it?
""Take a look at President Trump.
He's shown that sometimes you need that first stint in Government to spot the problems, but it's the second time around when you really know how to fix them.""
https://youtu.be/3WCQ6-QbTDQ?t=616
Condemning Trump over Ukraine ought to be a no-brainer.
I think pretty soon "TDS" will be a badge of honour and there'll be plenty claiming to have had it for years.
There is a clear scenario here where Trump does a Ukraine peace deal which dismembers the country in a way that is wholly unacceptable to the rest of NATO.
We'd have a choice of stomach the deal and keep on hoping that Trump doesn't give away anything else he doesn't own, or to say no and face the consequences of that. America withdrawing tens of thousands of troops and materiel is an obvious next step - which would be another 'what do we do now' moment.
I honestly don't care what Trump does to America - they voted for him. What he does to Europe? More of a problem. I think you come at this from the angle that Ukraine can't win - and you may have a point. I can also make the point that Russia can't win either. But there's a difference between both sides accepting that and stopping and Trump conceding to Putin on Ukraine's behalf...
SKS FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN
On Ukraine
Trump calls Zelenskyy a ‘dictator’ who should ‘move fast’ or lose country as row with Ukraine leader worsens
VZ FANS PLEASE EXPLAIN
Vance warns Zelensky he will regret "badmouthing" Trump and condemns his "atrocious" response to peace talks — DailyMail
One foreign country has decided to stop military support for another foreign country, and oblige that country to sue for peace. Objectively, such a move is in Britain's national interest, and yet the world is apparently ending.
Contrast that with the previous situation, where our leaders were obliged to make ever more generous contributions in cash and kind, and our country, which was (and still is) in the worst possible position to endure energy price shocks, was/is subjected to the worst one for decades. Yet people here were seal-clapping the whole thing.
It's a bizarre and wilful self-flagellating disconnection from our own national interest that only afflicts people in the UK. Like we’re actually guilty that things might get a bit better for us. Indeed we must hurry to find new and original ways to suffer and sacrifice just in case we should profit from these events.
President Zelenskyy is not a dictator. He is the democratically elected leader of Ukraine who bravely stood up to Putin’s illegal invasion. Under my leadership, and under successive Conservative Prime Ministers, we have and always will stand with Ukraine.
President Trump is right that Europe needs to pull its weight - and that includes the UK. We need to get serious. The PM will have my support to increase defence spending - there is a fully funded plan to get to 2.5% sitting on his desk. That should be the bare minimum. Starmer should get on with it, get on a plane to Washington and show some leadership. We cannot afford to get this wrong.
Leon! It definitely started in a wet market.
Farage is one to watch now in the vacuum left by Badenoch. How does he play it?
https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/1892264283888578712
And in the early stages, doctors aren't all that good at diagnosing it with any degree of certainty either.
I've no idea either way with Trump. But I'm comfortable with the colloquial diagnosis of a screw loose.
-"Yes, you did! You invaded Ukraine!"
The United States is, however, no longer our friend, either. It needs to be treated with extreme suspicion in future.
Has anyone ever seen BJO and DJT in the same room.
For those of you who have not seen it here it is.
https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1892242622623699357/photo/1
Popcorn time reckon he is just warming up for the meeting with the other buffoon SKS
(Which of the voices in her head fed her that line? Has any politician ever risen to the top via a sucsessful fundraising campaign for St Edward's?)
I rather suspect though that US prisons are horrible violent places for all inmates and no-one is going to care too much about this particular cohort, especially not with all this DOGE stuff going on.
https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lik5xmervk26
Perhaps SKS can change Trumps mind LOL
Anyhow here’s my calming photo from the archives
This is from 2009!!
It’s the Buddhist windhorses by the stupa of Balagezong, in remote (at least then) Yunnanese Tibet. The Chinese guys who drove me up there said I was probably the first westerner to ever enter the village
What you can’t see is that above me there are 20,000 foot Himalayan icecaps and yet way down below in the gorges: tropical rainforest
It was so beautiful - the fluttering prayer flags petitioning Eternity, sending their endless whispers to Heaven - I started to cry. My guide got concerned that I was sick or sad
I had to reassure him
Be at peace PB, this too shall pass
I hold no candle for Reform but let's not pretend they're exactly the same as the praetorian guard of MAGA.
Single market not membership !
Pb is better than this. We don't all have to compete with each other in the shit-the-bed stakes and, if we don't, have the finger pointed at us too.
I'm very confident ordinary Americans won't support this when they realise what's going on, and I don't want to condemn the whole country, despite their terrible politics.
All parties have their extremes
You argue that peace is in our national interest. Well that depends.
Peace where both sides stop fighting and the aggressor is seen to win very little? Sure. But Trump seems to think that Ukraine is the aggressor, and a mean one at that who won't give up its precious bodily fluids to America. So we're likely to see a piece deal where Ukraine is dismembered by Russia and America, encouraging both Putin and Trump to go after their next targets.
Such a deal would end the war, but would not be in our national interests as you claim.
He’s allowed a day for that.
The Tories need to row in behind; but pressure him and call Trump what he is. After all he won’t be in power by the next election so what is there to lose? And they may influence some Republicans.
Then there's the fact that America going rogue undermines a central justification for the more sensible Brexit pitches. Namely that we could pivot away from Europe to America. Always highly suspect, but completely implausible when the US President believes in diplomacy and trade via protection racket.
It is not juvenile to see that the America we knew is no longer and the new version is belligerent to all and most belligerent to those who are weaker and beholden.
The European Union is considering the possibility of redirecting unused funds in the amount of €93 billion, intended for recovery from the coronavirus pandemic, to defense, - FT
https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1892208656600408172
What the fuck is going on?
How many sane Brits now think it’s a good idea to hitch your wagon to the US .
Trump said in an interview last night: “Medicare, Medicaid — none of that stuff is going to be touched.”
Today he endorsed the House plan to slash billions from Medicaid
https://politico.com/news/2025/02/14/house-gop-budget-centrists-medicaid-00204223
World's gone mad.
And watch Real v City
We need to confidently lead in British interests as a nation that believes in itself.
The whole lot should be liquidated and spent, before the Americans give it back in their mock negotiations.
And even talk is dangerous. He has repeated Russian propaganda points and given Putin cover. Words from the President of the United States can be dangerous in and of themselves.